It should come as no freaking surprise that Hulk is treated poorly in this movie yet people wanted to pretend this movie is better then the first 2 Thor films
Honestly now combining Ragnarok and Love and Thunder I'm starting to believe Taika Waititi might have been the worst thing to happen to the MCU in general. Not just because of what he did, but even more so on how it influenced everything after.
That's why WE THE PEOPLE shouldn't go to any Taky Wacky 📽️ produced by The MCU UNLESS IT'S DEAD POOL 😠!! Furthermore, it's high damn time Kevin Feige recognize Chris him Worthness Hemsworth is also 1 of THEE WORST CASTING MEMBERS OF THE MCU!! It was Hemsworth idea 💡 to bring Taky Wacky in the 1st place!! I have such a dislike for the worthless 1 because like Wacky, he cares only about the jokes!! BOTH OF THOSE 🤡🤡 should be shown the 🚪 pronto 😡!! As for Mark Ruffalo, he needs to keep the " laughing 🦟" off his adaptation of The Banner/Hulk or else he'll lose the fans also!! Mark is a much better actor than Hemsworth can ever be at this stage of Chris' career
It's the worst thing to happen to Chris Hemsworth!! After Thor: Dark World, he made ALL SORTS OF DEMANDS & wanted change!! Wasn't change for the better.. It's change for the worst 👎👎!!
I'm glad this video was uploaded and defending who Hulk really was, the movie Ragnarok and Infinity War killed Hulk's character totally to some evil person.
They TRULY as you said assassinated Hulk/Banner duality, my most favorite marvel characters all along from the first 2003 movie, and you mate nailed it.
@@daseal1479 I totally agree with that. The tragedy of little Bruce that Ang Lee pictured was something else; aside from all creative directing put into that movie. Always has a special place in my book for its emotional weight and touching tone.
@@PsychoMario I kinda respect the 2003 hulk movie for trying to be more creative. Now yes, some choices were questionable and the effects held up poorly, but I admire it for its ambition and trying to hone in on the nature of the hulk's character. The 2003 hulk film wins in ambition, but I can't deny the 2008 film is much closer to the nature of the comics and the true monster the hulk is. I like both films, honestly.
In 2008, Hulk saying "leave me alone" in the shadows, left me in chills and excited with goosebumps. Hulk was never a toddler, just the personification of anger itself. I resent Taika for thinking Bruce Banner was boring. I literally rewatch The Incredible Hulk 2008 all the time because it's the most interesting best portrayal of Hulk and Bruce Banner
Norton is absolutely clueless about the Hulk.. listen to the way he talks about the character,watch interviews and you'll see how he knows Nothing of the Hulk... Ruffalo even downplays the character. Norton on the other hand actually understood the character. I've seen interviews of both Ruffalo and Norton talking about the Hulk and you could how much passion Norton had for the character... it's a damnn shame.
@@David_Scar nah Norton is the biggest hulk fan he even wanted to write the script which he did but of course they did him dirty by not using his script
Hulk is a physical manifestation of Banner's repressed anger. He is a psychological disorder. He does not evolve emotionally. He turns into a different personality totally disconnected from the other. That is the key to the character. Banner has to be viewed as disturbed mentally to even begin to understand. Too complicated for the shallow use of the character in the MCU.
This is true however it's almost been made clear time and time again that hulk is his own person and can form his own opinions and grow to some extent.
I think they should have highlighted that like Ang Lee's Hulk film did. Like maybe a flashback of Brian Banner abusing him and his mother as the vision Wanda gave him in Age of Ultron. Would have enhanced the film imo.
The Contradictions galore segment just brought to light that the directorial problems people had with Love and Thunder have always been there with his style they just willingly put aside their understanding of what came before in favor of fun despite the inconsistency. I had never seen those interviews before but it's baffling how no one ever talked about them
Exactly. People just pretending they never happened lol. I also was never a fan of Taika's style with story and characterization. Which became much worse in Love and Thunder.
This was also my thought after seeing the reaction to Love and Thunder. Taika does the exact same shit throughout Ragnarok, the difference was a better presentation, novelty, and Phase 3 hype. When Jane dies it’s nice and somber, when Asgard dies Korg immediately cracks a fucking joke.
Watching those Ruffalo interviews makes me realise how much we took Edward Norton's take on Hulk for granted. It's such a shame he didn't get to take the Hulk down a more serious route that respects the character. Instead we got.... this.
Ruffalo describing Hulk's character as a toddler is very cringe-worthy. As if that's all he was. And him thinking Ragnarok was a worthy Planet Hulk adaptation further proves he doesn't know the character. They probably just told him what that was behind the scenes.
These Ruffalo interviews. Whenever I tell people he is the worst actor to play Banner, people look at me Luke I'm crazy. Just listening to him regurgitate Taika's take on the mcu characters he's butchered is infuriating if you're a fan of the Hulk.
I found Ragnarok entertaining but couldn’t ignore how they treated my favorite green boy. …or Thor, really. I personally enjoyed the more medieval, muted colors, Lord of the Rings-feel the first two Thor films had. I think that’s where it should’ve stayed, just with better writing. And I liked 2008 Hulk way better. More of an empathetic character who was actually very intelligent and far more complex than this giant green toddler in Ragnarok, just not as well spoken. But I liked it that way-it made the times he DID speak very weighty since he only spoke when he had something profound to say.
I agree I liked everything about Ragnarok except everything with Hulk….But the Russo Bros put the final nails in Hulks coffin in Infinity War and Endgame
I didn't like Thor Ragnarok & really disliked Hulk depiction. Most Mcu fans never read Thor Disassembled or Planet Hulk to World War Hulk storylines. Both of those were deep stories for Hulk's & Thor's character. Thor walks the path of Odin but takes it a step further in all of Odin's Trail. Hulk becomes the savior of Sakaar by liberating the planet from an oppressive ruler. Taika just skipped all of that for laughs. He wasted an amazing opportunity to introduce Green Scar Hulk and Rune King Thor 😑. Taika did a good thing by adding some comedy Thor's story but he over did it. Ragnarok is the end of Thor's people and the movie barely takes itself seriously, it's known to be one of the funniest mcu movies, instead of being Thor's deepest movie.
Really I don't think Taika is that great a director. To the point where people say Jojo Rabbit is good, but I have hit X to Doubt so hard it shattered the button because of what I've seen of him. He just feels like a pretentious artist with negative levels of talent as a director. And a douchebag.
They could've at least worked in the Planet Hulk storyline a little more by having Hulk lead a rebellion against the Grand master that helps them to be able to get off Sakkar.
@@coachtali5151 Is this sarcasm? Because they never mentioned Thor 4 or jane foster getting mjolnir. They were talking about Ragnorak, which is what the video is about.
Taika (much like Rian Johnson with Star Wars) didn’t respect nor care for the pre-established storylines that they were brought on to continue. They both let their egos drive them to make unnecessary changes to the characters and the tone of the story
Hulk willingly beats innocent people to death and is friends with a beer guzzling, slave driving deserter who gets paid to bring said innocent people to Hulk.
You delved into some super interesting concepts/contrivances I never even thought of (with good editing too); great video! I sorta feel bad for forgetting a lot of hulks motivations in way of funny hulk. Also I really like your character design
The director is just a child wanting action films with no in debt plot to make the movie and character grow, he just wants stupid funny jokes for the kids
Ruffalo feels like Ruffalo pretending not to be Ruffalo I'm every role I've ever seen him in. I guess that makes him a good fit to willingly go along with the deterioration of the character of the hulk, as both him and Disney don't seem to give a fuck about the character.
I'd never seen Mark Ruffalos interviews before. Having seen them now it seems that either he never really ever got The Hulk, or he just blindly went along slavishly with whatever direction the studio wanted to go in. Watch Edward Nortons interview for a comparison. He truly understood The Hulk and it's no surprise that he parted ways with Marvel when he saw the direction they were taking with The Hulk. Waititi definitely doesn't get The Hulk. Even though Eric Bana confessed that he wasn't a comic book fan, he understood and portrayed the tragedy behind Bruce Banner and The Hulk far better in Ang Lees 2003 movie.
I've always preferred the two of them over mark. I always thought maybe it was because they were just better actors... But maybe actually understanding the character you're portraying it's a necessity... So in a way if he hasn't learned who the hulk is by now (even a tiny bit of the source material) no matter how well he can act, he is not a great actor.
Mark I think understands the Hulk and Bruce's anger, he is a casting akin to RDJ as Tony Stark for past issues (Mark Ruffalo has said that he had a lot of anger issues when he was younger). But the issue I see is Marvel (both Entertainment and Studios) don't know how to handle such a complex character and make him profitable as they did with the other Avengers. That combined with Mark Ruffalo probably not wanting to return to some old habits or being okay with his character being Disney-ified might land us with the Hulk we're getting. Having known Ruffalo's desire to do a Hulk movie and go back to normal Hulk/go for a World War Hulk type of movie makes me think this isn't really his fault tho.
Taika Waititi, man. He strikes me as the kid a parent gives a $20 bill to says, "Go to the store for me, we need some full milk," and then somehow comes home with $50 worth of useless items with one tiny carton of soy milk, instead. Like someone who just managed to finagle the ringmaster to use the whole circus for just one night and then you come in the next day to find the whole tent burned to the ground, with all the animals and some of the patrons dead and smoldering before him, and a huge smile still on the guy's face. He didn't build any of these characters up. What the hell does he care if he breaks them?
I wish Ed Notron would have remained the Hulk, just because of the fact that he would never ever let an abomination of a movie like this see the light with him in it
Wow, i never realized how bad Thor: Ragnarok treated BOTH Hulk and Thor! With the release of Thor: Love and Thunder, I can see a very clear line of misuse of characters (though ur vid about Ultron shows it may have already started there) and their development. And now we have She-Hulk getting the same fate (so far at least). So much potential wasted. Edit: I’ll add this too: though they slaughtered the characters, Waititi is a great director with making light hearted and comedic films. When i didn’t know about the original comics, i found the film fun and exciting though i realize now it was largely due to the story and characters the previous movies had been building. Looking back now u can see how Waititi/others cherry-picked elements of some amazing Hulk and Thor stories, threw out the development of previous movies (thought that started way back in Hulk 2008), and then sold the film with a couple of well-timed jokes and terrible writing. Thor: Love and Thunder was done with the same formula (perhaps worse, especially on the political narratives and terrible writing), so no surprise it didn’t do well. Waititi’s approach to these characters comes off as arrogant and self serving which is really unfortunate bc i do admire his movies. The actors were also kinda culpable as you pointed out, with Ruffalo and Hemsworth not sticking with their characters’ progression (thing i bet they have less say).
Just a little FYI Fenrir is extremley powerful in Norse Mythology, after all he kills Odin, altough I agree that the movie don't characterized it as powerful enough
Sadly, all the decisions made in Thor: Ragnarok were surrounded by "Can we make a gag out this?". In the moment it might be funny but on repeated viewings, you realize how detrimental it is to the story and character.
I didn’t mind the Hulk vs Fenris fight. I feel it makes sense since Fenris is a being capable of killing Odin. His jaws are capable of killing gods. I just fucking wish we got to see the actual fight!! Also the trailers made it seem that Hulk was actually gonna fight Surtur. Imagine how cool it would have been to see Thor and Hulk to team up and take him down!
After Game of Thrones last episode I remember reading something along the lines of "consistency, logic, characters? Directors dont care about it, they just want to make a cool scene" Also the famous "subverting expectations" lol
Hulk is my favorite Marvel character. I was so excited he was one of the first to get a standalone movie in the MCU. The success of that movie helped lead to the rest of the franchise. If it had bombed right after Iron Man was a success, the MCU might never have happened. To see them treat his character worse and worse with each movie he was in-on top of him never getting another movie to star in-was just disappointing. After Ragnarok came out and they changed his character almost completely while removing any chance we'd get a Planet Hulk movie, I was done with it. Especially when they emasculated and then killed the Hulk in Infinity War right after that. This current version walking around the MCU is Mark Ruffalo's Bruce Banner and not the Hulk. The Hulk was weakened so he could lose to Thanos and then he was never seen or heard from again. It's just Ruffalo Banner now.
I'm not a comic book guy but planet hulk is one of the few plotlines that I really like because it's basically a Greek tragedy with the trappings of a superhero comic. Not a single soul comes out of that story unless they're miserable and it's great.
MCU was *NEVER* going to adapt that storyline; the too expensive on the budget & tonally miles away from what they prefer with their 'widest possible appeal's approach.
It sounds like the more you describe hulk and his interactions with Thor and Valkyrie, the more it sounds like the gray hulk, Joe Fixit. Selfish, helps others to get what he wants, smarter than savage hulk but meaner than Bruce banner, mean enough to not care about killing others. Damn, he should’ve been in the movie, and then green hulk should’ve come out to help Thor defend the asgardians on the bridge!
Infinity War was a thinly veiled hate letter anyways. It was FUBAR that they tried to act like the bad guy wiping out half of all life in the cosmos was a 'good' thing
I've recently stumbled on your channel due to the Hulk essays, and I have to say you're doing an amazing job analyzing the characters, themes and meaning behind them. It's insane how this tragic, misunderstood and heroic character was turned into a violent, overgrown toddler with zero depth. Imagine having a story about a man, who thinks that he is a monster, and a monster, who wants to be left alone, how both of them suffer from not being able to be with people they love and how both of them fight relentlessly to protect those around them - and then imagine throwing it all away, because you wanted "le funny green man punches things". It's as if someone at MCU headquarters is afraid of accidentally making movie without characters winking at a camera, so instead everything is a complete mockery and buffoonery. Hulk hiding with Betty in a cave from the storm was so much more emotional than whatever the hell this abomination is supposed to be.
I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one who thought that Hulk was completely disrespected in Ragnarok. I personally don’t enjoy this film all that much, with Hulk’s childish personality change being partially to blame. I’m just glad we got the Thor in Infinity War (not Endgame) out of the film.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who dislikes this movie for what it did to Hulk and Banner; heck, this entire movie is riddled with plot-holes. Especially considering that Hela's entire purpose is to get off Asgard with the Bi-Frost and she needs Heimdal's sword...while Odin's Spear is literally laying about in the Throne Room the _entire time._ But truth is...I actually began to hate Ruffalo's version of Banner as far back as Iron Man 3; you make a big point about how much Banner wants to help people and would help his friends. Iron Man 3, in the brief time he's in it, shows the beginning of Banner's downward spiral into _selfishness._ It's a cameo at the end credits that reveals, the Framing Device of the entire movie; Tony's narration the entire time, has actually been him recanting the events, and talking about his PTSD to Bruce...And as Tony concludes the story and thanks Banner for being a good listener, the camera reveals that Bruce has _fallen asleep,_ and has been asleep since literally the story began...Bruce then comes up with the excuse, "I'm not that kind of doctor." ....Yeah, because Bruce Banner would know absolutely _nothing_ about traumatic experiences and Post Traumatic Stress Disorders...he'd have _absolutely nothing_ to say to Bruce on that... Truth be told, I see that scene redone with Norton; and there's no way in Hell Norton would play that off like a joke. He'd actually have something constructive to say to Tony - maybe some _breathing exercises,_ yoga, things to help keep him calm when he has an anxiety attack.
So I am re watching the 1st 2 hulk movies. I just realized that the scene where hulk is mad at the sky and thunder isn't because he doesn't know what it is. It's because it's a call back to the 1st movie where the last time he saw/heard thunder and lightning it's because he was fighting his dad in lightning form. The hulk remembers the dangers he had been in and actively takes measures to defend against them. The 2nd movie isn't a direct sequel but it does try to pick up where the 1st left off which means the regression of the mcu hulk is much more impact full than anyone realizes. The hulk is an intelligent being and had been basically an adult because he was created as an adult. He had the intelligence of an adult but was normally blinded by anger but now he's a 2 year old? How could they do this to arguably the most interesting character the mcu has to offer.
Hard to believe Marvel fired Edgar Wright for wanting "to much creative control" over Ant-Man, a character that honestly nobody is that emotionally attached to and could have done basically anything with, but they allowed Taika Wakiti to completely re-write Thor and Hulk. Two characters that had already been established in universe.
I feel like I’m the only one who thinks this but I feel ragnarok is start of what marvel is now with the constant jokes and things like that, it was a good movie but it got so popular Disney thought every movie and character needs to be like this and it’s not just annoying
The problem when you want to criticize someone for not knowing or caring about the source material when you dont know it yourself. - Are we to believe Fenhir is stronger than a Leviathan ? YES. From the Profile in Marvel Material: Asgardian Wolf Physiology: Fenris, as an Asgardian Wolf, and the personal pet and steed of the Goddess of Death Hela, was one of the most powerful and fearsome beings in the Nine Realms, to the point that even Heimdall showed fear when cornered by the beast on the Rainbow Bridge, only preparing to face it once he knew it was absolutely necessary.
that makes sense but unless most people dug that deep, they wouldn't know that. I agree with you but the movie is very inconsistent with Hulk and Thor's powers and to some degree with Hela too. Fenris gets no explanation whatsoever. They could have even had a quick moment to show how much power he has. He's just a big wolf to most viewers and the fight with Hulk was meaningless as they didn't set it up at all. Not just that but the fight had so many quick cuts that you couldn't even get invested in it and then Fenris just slides down a waterfall. That's it. It didn't mean anything, and it didn't even add anything for the hulk and that was it. The quick fight didn't have much impact or cool moments. It just felt like a throwaway CGI battle
6:35 fenrir in Norse mythology is planetary power so technically yes, fenrir in Norse mythology > leviathan, but to be fair, Marvel is very inaccurate when it comes to Norse mythology, if this was accurate, fenrir would be constantly growing, so I highly doubt this fenrir is planetary power
He always had charm and levity but he was still a mature character with his growth intact and a Norse god acting like a Norse god is somehow an "issue" to y'all? This is why movies like Ragnarok are made to appeal to the mainstream masses to eat up smh.
They didn't break any rules all of this happened in the comics they were just to lazy to explain it or research. Why the hulk was able to stay in control
4:48 Thor did not struggle against Iron man. Thor had been on earth before and had learnt that not every situation needs to be a fight so he was going easy on Tony stark while trying to talk to him.
The MCU has been doing Hulk dirty for a while now, even despite the absence of a standalone film since Phase 1. He's the shining example of wasted potential. First, there is no mention of Brian Banner, or the abuse and trauma Banner struggles with. Second, there was the Norton fiasco. Third, there was that forced relationship with Natasha. Then we got Ragnarok, Hulk giving up in cowardice in Infinity War, and the forced "development" into Professor Hulk. And finally, the absolutely nonsensical disaster that is She-Hulk. And that's just the TL;DR summary. They should have directed Hulk's and Banners arc towards his PTSD, maybe have it so that Banner repressed his traumatic memories until Wanda's mental manipulation resurfaced them, causing the Hulk to be more volatile and unstable as a direct result. They showed Tony's, Cap's, and Thor's terrifying visions, why not Banner's? Make that the focus rather than a forced romantic subplot. You know, tap into the thematic core of Ang Lee's depiction of the Hulk.
As much as I really liked Guardians of the Galaxy, I really do think that it was probably the worst possible thing to happen to Marvel as a studio. Because now every movie has to be a joke factory with a “I know/like that song” soundtrack. Taika for all his talks about making Thor something different and “the Taika school of filmmaking”, all he did was just make a Guardians movie and completely lost the identities of both Thor and Hulk. It’s a shame and quite telling how well received Ragnarok was. Audiences don’t care about the character, they only care about being fooled.
FINALLY! Someone else points that out. There was no actual "risk" or "experimentation" with this movie. It's just a shitty pseudo Guardians movie with even worse dumb and childish unfunny humor all because Taika the idiot man child he is wanted to inflate his ego, Hemsworth was just bored and insecure about his career and so wanted to ruin a great character, and Ruffalo just went along with it with his regressed knowledge of the character.
Thanks for the video. Well done. An accurate depiction of the Hulk in a movie needs to be done to correct all the mistakes and holes. An apology needs to be made to the Hulk fans.
Hulk has multiple personalities, and the Hulk in the movies is shown to be the Savage Hulk, so Hulk should be unwilling to fight after Ultron, and always sound like a child, and have the intelligence of one, but not lose progression in maturity. The writers wanted to follow the comics, but didn’t get it right for the plot!
1. Bro, do you even know Hulk? Do you really think he wouldn't survive a trip to space? 2. You also don't understand how the Odinforce works. You're underselling Fenris, too. 3. Hulk did leave Earth believing they feared and hated him again after the Hulkbuster incident. I do agree there's a lack of Natasha as a reason though. 4. I do have to immensely praise you on the matter of Hulk's emotional maturity, you were spot on and while a man of few words previously, Hulk's childlike nature usually confers him a sort of morality that many times makes him the big man in the room. In conclusion, you started out iffy but ended the video very VERY strongly, and laid out the points that would end up being the ruin of Love and Thunder
@@F4lc0_Is I thought that he was more pointing out that it didn't make sense how he got to a black hole or portal especially since the jet doesn't fly into space and especially not deep space. They just brush past it. I think that they could have shown even a brief number of guilt about Natasha and why hulk left. It doesn't explain why he's ok just staying there under anyone's thumb. Hulk always wanted to be left alone and he never allowed himself to be controlled. Fenris is undersold but the movie gave us nothing on Fenris. Even a brief display of power would suffice. To most people, it looks like hulk just fights a big wolf in a throwaway fight that didn't even have a big impact or a good conclusion. A lot about the comics didn't make it to the movies but we could be content with just a little explanation. Power levels were just all over the place and this movie is one of the biggest offenders
@@BenjaminBilyeu-jm3tc Bro these movies are cash grabs made to entertain and blind you to shit that is outside your control and shit that is within your control but we all become to complacent and lazy to act on. Most industries are made for that, mind-numbing entertainment, forget about this dumb 2-hour roller coaster ride, the only good MCU movies are Iron Man 1 and the Guardian of the Galaxy trilogy.
@@F4lc0_Is i agree about these being cash grabs for sure. They did just enough to keep people invested in the characters and then everyone praised Ragnorok and especially Endgame. Both were terrible to me because of major plot holes and need to be funny that took me out of the movies. I think Infinity war was good and a few others were good but not great movies. Just entertaining at best
They never actually GAVE any reason for why Hulk left Earth. The closest we got was Bruce saying he had to run now because the world has finally seen the REAL hulk. Your hypothesis that Hulk left to avoid hurting people is just your headcanon. Don't treat it as if it's anything more.
I think why Thor was able to fight Hulk in Ragnarok was due to Hulk not being enraged. Hulk gains power the more he in angry, and in the comics, hulk and thor are equal in strength, which implies that Thor might have the same rage based power boost. Thor was insulted and made more and more angry due to hulk not caring. We also see that Hulk cares less about many things as he is trying to find himself as a character unrelated to banner.
taika looks like a hobo that people though was the director so they just listen to everything he said also even if old banner was boring and uninteresting, it doesn't mean his boring to the fans, here's an actual good tip if you don't know why a character is so good in people's eyes, then know why this character is so good cause, it makes you write the character and the interactions with that character even more better and not just "we're gonna change everything about him cause we think he's boring" if you're confident enough to say that then you should have at least a good understanding of that character. also it's sad we didn't had any signs of to warn us about this... 35:32 36:12 42:24
Hulk is my favorite marvel character I remember thinking after seeing Ragnarok I don't like the spoiled child joke direction they take the hulk in. I remember everyone online saying how great and perfect it is I thought I was going crazy I was hoping it was a one and done little did I know what I was in store for😭😭
Thank you for this video..... Disney/Hollywood has destroyed so many people's childhood with what they've done with so many established characters. Completely destroyed them. I have to admit initially I liked Thor Ragnarok but only because Hulk was being shown as fearless and strong attacking a demon god and giant wolf i was stoked even for those brief seconds. But ultimately the comedy ruined him for further movies. And Disney as a whole not knowing how to write him into a story and steal make the good guys look like they're overwhelmingly on the losing side they nerfed and made him an imbecile. For me this is unforgivable by Disney and hence forth all their content will absolutely be pirated, and that's if i find it enjoyable as i haven't watched most of their recent crap after Infinity War and Endgame where they gave Hulk no redemption.
I just want to point out, Fenris is substantially more powerful than a Leviathan. Hulk vs Fenris isn't just Hulk vs some random big wolf. Terrible fucking movie though in hindsight.
Which is even worse because we don't get to see the battle between these two powerhouse characters. Not to mention there's no real build up or any indication that the mcu Fenrir is that strong. And hulk deals with him offscreen and it doesn't seem like he had to fight very hard to defeat Fenrir. Fenrir is basically just a convenient plot device to get Hulk out of the way so that Thor and Valkyrie seem cool.
For me Ragnarok as a MCU film or a Thor sequel is like expecting me to treat Space Balls as a legit sequel to The Empire Strikes Back, the borderline self-parody like tone just makes such a thing hard to buy.
This video made me realise something- Ruffalo is just as much of a bad liar and socially awkward guy as i am- I feel a bit bad for his defence. He's laughing as if its all he can do. Almost like he wanted the character to go in a different direction. Im pretty sure he also stated about world war hulk and being fully down for that side of hulk- so he was probably waiting for a chance to do that.
Hey, comic accurate Hulk always needs to prove he's the "strongest one there is!", It's a behavioral thing. So it somewhat makes sense he may enjoy hand to hand gladiatorial combat.
But due to that same character trait, wouldn't he also hate being captured and forced to fight for the amusement of others? Seeing himself as the "Strongest one there is," wouldn't this scenario mean that he isn't top dog here, and that someone is above him calling the shots?
@@totallynotamimic3522 But was he really captured? I mean everyone treated him like a star basically. He had his own luxurious room (that he later shared with Thor), he was adored by so many fans during his arena fights, cheered on. I really think he didn't consider himself a prisoner, rather a guest, or even being in a place he thinks of as "home", a place he finally belongs to.
But he was fighting significantly weaker foes, so that makes no sense here. It’s not like he was fighting abomination or Thor or Thanos level people there on Sakaar. He would have nothing to prove. And he’s also killing slaves so yeah this is character assassination
@@sadchild9478 Well after Age of Ultron Hulk was just depressed. He landed on a planet that treated him like a star and spent 2 whole years there. Maybe he lost his drive and decided to accept his new life without having to stress about anything. He became immature because he no longer needed to worry about his issues on Earth and could just ignore them. It's a low point, not too different from fat Thor. Now, granted, I absolutely hate what they did to Hulk from Ragnarok onward, but it's understandable that he'd act the way he does. If, instead of being played for jokes, Hulk's issues were taken seriously and properly explained, it could've been really good.
Like Worf in later Star Trek, or piccolo in DBZ, or the dinobots in G1, they turn once tough characters into comic relief and it’s a real lame joke no one finds funny.
This is a great breakdown, thank you. It’s also nice seeing more criticism of this film, though I hadn’t realized it seems to have been ground zero for most of the writing problems that have since come to dominate the MCU. It’s made even more frustrating because the parts that work, Hela and re-contextualizing Odin’s rule, and the visuals, show that Taika and the production could have made a great Thor movie that was consistent and still fresh.
I mean Thor went even with Hulk, Loki was already beaten down and blown up when Hulk beat him up, and Thor can be safely implied to have gotten stronger and more competent in his previous movie appearances, even if Dark World sucked, he got stronger in it.
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It should come as no freaking surprise that Hulk is treated poorly in this movie yet people wanted to pretend this movie is better then the first 2 Thor films
Honestly now combining Ragnarok and Love and Thunder I'm starting to believe Taika Waititi might have been the worst thing to happen to the MCU in general. Not just because of what he did, but even more so on how it influenced everything after.
That's why WE THE PEOPLE shouldn't go to any Taky Wacky 📽️ produced by The MCU UNLESS IT'S DEAD POOL 😠!! Furthermore, it's high damn time Kevin Feige recognize Chris him Worthness Hemsworth is also 1 of THEE WORST CASTING MEMBERS OF THE MCU!! It was Hemsworth idea 💡 to bring Taky Wacky in the 1st place!! I have such a dislike for the worthless 1 because like Wacky, he cares only about the jokes!! BOTH OF THOSE 🤡🤡 should be shown the 🚪 pronto 😡!! As for Mark Ruffalo, he needs to keep the " laughing 🦟" off his adaptation of The Banner/Hulk or else he'll lose the fans also!! Mark is a much better actor than Hemsworth can ever be at this stage of Chris' career
I agree
It's the worst thing to happen to Chris Hemsworth!! After Thor: Dark World, he made ALL SORTS OF DEMANDS & wanted change!! Wasn't change for the better.. It's change for the worst 👎👎!!
He has to add joke to every scene start AND end it's exhausting honestly. Thank god he got fired.
Also he's an annoying man child.
I'm glad this video was uploaded and defending who Hulk really was, the movie Ragnarok and Infinity War killed Hulk's character totally to some evil person.
This and a few other films really ignite how no one knows what to do with hulk and banner and ends up making him 1 dimensional.
They killed him off screen at the beginning of endgame. Didn’t even give him the dignity of acknowledging it.
Endgame and She Hulk is when they destroyed Hulk.
no its just infinity war
They TRULY as you said assassinated Hulk/Banner duality, my most favorite marvel characters all along from the first 2003 movie, and you mate nailed it.
2008?
@@Oldschool1943 was actually including the 2003 "hulk" movie but realized it's not part of the MCU unlike the 2008 "incredible hulk".
@@PsychoMario I see it as "soft-canon", I like to think the events and backstory of that film still happened in the MCU, just a bit differently.
@@daseal1479 I totally agree with that.
The tragedy of little Bruce that Ang Lee pictured was something else; aside from all creative directing put into that movie. Always has a special place in my book for its emotional weight and touching tone.
@@PsychoMario I kinda respect the 2003 hulk movie for trying to be more creative. Now yes, some choices were questionable and the effects held up poorly, but I admire it for its ambition and trying to hone in on the nature of the hulk's character. The 2003 hulk film wins in ambition, but I can't deny the 2008 film is much closer to the nature of the comics and the true monster the hulk is.
I like both films, honestly.
In 2008, Hulk saying "leave me alone" in the shadows, left me in chills and excited with goosebumps. Hulk was never a toddler, just the personification of anger itself. I resent Taika for thinking Bruce Banner was boring. I literally rewatch The Incredible Hulk 2008 all the time because it's the most interesting best portrayal of Hulk and Bruce Banner
Mark Ruffalo seems to have an inverse growth of understanding the Hulk. The more he plays the Hulk the less he seems to understand the character.
Ed Norton was my hulk
Norton is absolutely clueless about the Hulk.. listen to the way he talks about the character,watch interviews and you'll see how he knows Nothing of the Hulk... Ruffalo even downplays the character.
Norton on the other hand actually understood the character. I've seen interviews of both Ruffalo and Norton talking about the Hulk and you could how much passion Norton had for the character... it's a damnn shame.
@@David_Scar you meant Ruffalo is clueless about the hulk?
@@David_Scar Yeah, I have to agree with Mario Papa. I think you meant Norton from what you said.
@@David_Scar nah Norton is the biggest hulk fan he even wanted to write the script which he did but of course they did him dirty by not using his script
I personally believe that Taika Waititi is one of the worst directors Marvel has ever had.
It’s a toss up between him and that no-name that directed Eternals.
Which sucks cuz I actually love taika
Thor love and thunder was an insult to my intelligence it was like a child television movie
Hulk is a physical manifestation of Banner's repressed anger. He is a psychological disorder. He does not evolve emotionally. He turns into a different personality totally disconnected from the other. That is the key to the character. Banner has to be viewed as disturbed mentally to even begin to understand. Too complicated for the shallow use of the character in the MCU.
There was some few occasion in comics when both Banner and Hulk merged to be one.
This is true however it's almost been made clear time and time again that hulk is his own person and can form his own opinions and grow to some extent.
I think they should have highlighted that like Ang Lee's Hulk film did. Like maybe a flashback of Brian Banner abusing him and his mother as the vision Wanda gave him in Age of Ultron.
Would have enhanced the film imo.
To sum it up, Taika Wakiti is the equivalent of Rian Johnson.
Ruining characters and lore for your own selfish ego.
This
I think he and Rian were told by the corporate offices to make certain changes
no thats infinity war
@@jarviskinney6437Rian Johnson definitely was not he actually made Jar Jar Abrams make changes to fit his horrible ideas
The Contradictions galore segment just brought to light that the directorial problems people had with Love and Thunder have always been there with his style they just willingly put aside their understanding of what came before in favor of fun despite the inconsistency.
I had never seen those interviews before but it's baffling how no one ever talked about them
Exactly. People just pretending they never happened lol. I also was never a fan of Taika's style with story and characterization. Which became much worse in Love and Thunder.
Dear Marvel, the Rule of Cool only applies to DND nights. Not Hollywood movies with years of history.
This was also my thought after seeing the reaction to Love and Thunder. Taika does the exact same shit throughout Ragnarok, the difference was a better presentation, novelty, and Phase 3 hype. When Jane dies it’s nice and somber, when Asgard dies Korg immediately cracks a fucking joke.
@@RoadtoArkham That bothered me even back in 2017. Imagine Drax making the same joke about Yondu suffocating and you can see why it's not funny.
Well Ragnarok was actually an entertaining, somewhat good movie, so it was easy to put aside the inconsistencies. Love and Thunder was just slop.
Watching those Ruffalo interviews makes me realise how much we took Edward Norton's take on Hulk for granted. It's such a shame he didn't get to take the Hulk down a more serious route that respects the character. Instead we got.... this.
Yeah well maybe if Norton wasn't a total nightmare to work with he'd still have the role
@@Drums_of_LiberationThey say he was a nightmare for actually understanding the character.
@@Drums_of_Liberation "Nightmare" for wanting to be true to the comic hulk
I'll never forgive the MCU for what they did to The Hulk (and Thor...). I fucking hate Ragnarok.
Glad to find someone else who hates Ragnarok.
I miss the tragic but scary heroic powerful Hulk.
I missed his king Kong character type
Ruffalo describing Hulk's character as a toddler is very cringe-worthy. As if that's all he was.
And him thinking Ragnarok was a worthy Planet Hulk adaptation further proves he doesn't know the character. They probably just told him what that was behind the scenes.
These Ruffalo interviews. Whenever I tell people he is the worst actor to play Banner, people look at me Luke I'm crazy.
Just listening to him regurgitate Taika's take on the mcu characters he's butchered is infuriating if you're a fan of the Hulk.
Yeah I really dislike his take on the hulk. He played banner well in avengers and age of Ultron though.
I found Ragnarok entertaining but couldn’t ignore how they treated my favorite green boy.
…or Thor, really.
I personally enjoyed the more medieval, muted colors, Lord of the Rings-feel the first two Thor films had. I think that’s where it should’ve stayed, just with better writing.
And I liked 2008 Hulk way better. More of an empathetic character who was actually very intelligent and far more complex than this giant green toddler in Ragnarok, just not as well spoken. But I liked it that way-it made the times he DID speak very weighty since he only spoke when he had something profound to say.
I agree I liked everything about Ragnarok except everything with Hulk….But the Russo Bros put the final nails in Hulks coffin in Infinity War and Endgame
The muted colours kinda did a disservice to Thor though. I like that Ragnarok had a visual flair and palette more similar to the comics.
it was meant to capture the more retro he man style thors original looks had, y know since they have a fucking rainbow bridge
I didn't like Thor Ragnarok & really disliked Hulk depiction. Most Mcu fans never read Thor Disassembled or Planet Hulk to World War Hulk storylines. Both of those were deep stories for Hulk's & Thor's character. Thor walks the path of Odin but takes it a step further in all of Odin's Trail. Hulk becomes the savior of Sakaar by liberating the planet from an oppressive ruler. Taika just skipped all of that for laughs. He wasted an amazing opportunity to introduce Green Scar Hulk and Rune King Thor 😑.
Taika did a good thing by adding some comedy Thor's story but he over did it. Ragnarok is the end of Thor's people and the movie barely takes itself seriously, it's known to be one of the funniest mcu movies, instead of being Thor's deepest movie.
Really I don't think Taika is that great a director. To the point where people say Jojo Rabbit is good, but I have hit X to Doubt so hard it shattered the button because of what I've seen of him. He just feels like a pretentious artist with negative levels of talent as a director. And a douchebag.
They could've at least worked in the Planet Hulk storyline a little more by having Hulk lead a rebellion against the Grand master that helps them to be able to get off Sakkar.
Oh shut up. You didn't like Thor Darkworld or the first Thor movie. This is retroactive hate because they put girl Thor in a movie
@@coachtali5151 Is this sarcasm? Because they never mentioned Thor 4 or jane foster getting mjolnir. They were talking about Ragnorak, which is what the video is about.
Instead of using the world breaker hulk he used savage hulk/child like hulk
Taika (much like Rian Johnson with Star Wars) didn’t respect nor care for the pre-established storylines that they were brought on to continue. They both let their egos drive them to make unnecessary changes to the characters and the tone of the story
Hulk willingly beats innocent people to death and is friends with a beer guzzling, slave driving deserter who gets paid to bring said innocent people to Hulk.
You delved into some super interesting concepts/contrivances I never even thought of (with good editing too); great video! I sorta feel bad for forgetting a lot of hulks motivations in way of funny hulk. Also I really like your character design
Thank you so much!
The director is just a child wanting action films with no in debt plot to make the movie and character grow, he just wants stupid funny jokes for the kids
In depth, not in debt
Banner is a clown and Hulk is a joke. They've turned him into Shrek.
Ang Lee did that years before Ruffalo
Don't you dare insult our lord and savior like that.
@@Drums_of_LiberationYou are wrong
Ruffalo feels like Ruffalo pretending not to be Ruffalo I'm every role I've ever seen him in. I guess that makes him a good fit to willingly go along with the deterioration of the character of the hulk, as both him and Disney don't seem to give a fuck about the character.
He’s the yes man type. He just goes with what everyone else wants and has no real talent on his own
I'd never seen Mark Ruffalos interviews before. Having seen them now it seems that either he never really ever got The Hulk, or he just blindly went along slavishly with whatever direction the studio wanted to go in.
Watch Edward Nortons interview for a comparison. He truly understood The Hulk and it's no surprise that he parted ways with Marvel when he saw the direction they were taking with The Hulk. Waititi definitely doesn't get The Hulk.
Even though Eric Bana confessed that he wasn't a comic book fan, he understood and portrayed the tragedy behind Bruce Banner and The Hulk far better in Ang Lees 2003 movie.
I've always preferred the two of them over mark. I always thought maybe it was because they were just better actors... But maybe actually understanding the character you're portraying it's a necessity... So in a way if he hasn't learned who the hulk is by now (even a tiny bit of the source material) no matter how well he can act, he is not a great actor.
Mark I think understands the Hulk and Bruce's anger, he is a casting akin to RDJ as Tony Stark for past issues (Mark Ruffalo has said that he had a lot of anger issues when he was younger). But the issue I see is Marvel (both Entertainment and Studios) don't know how to handle such a complex character and make him profitable as they did with the other Avengers. That combined with Mark Ruffalo probably not wanting to return to some old habits or being okay with his character being Disney-ified might land us with the Hulk we're getting.
Having known Ruffalo's desire to do a Hulk movie and go back to normal Hulk/go for a World War Hulk type of movie makes me think this isn't really his fault tho.
Taika Waititi, man. He strikes me as the kid a parent gives a $20 bill to says, "Go to the store for me, we need some full milk," and then somehow comes home with $50 worth of useless items with one tiny carton of soy milk, instead. Like someone who just managed to finagle the ringmaster to use the whole circus for just one night and then you come in the next day to find the whole tent burned to the ground, with all the animals and some of the patrons dead and smoldering before him, and a huge smile still on the guy's face. He didn't build any of these characters up. What the hell does he care if he breaks them?
I wish Ed Notron would have remained the Hulk, just because of the fact that he would never ever let an abomination of a movie like this see the light with him in it
Wow, i never realized how bad Thor: Ragnarok treated BOTH Hulk and Thor! With the release of Thor: Love and Thunder, I can see a very clear line of misuse of characters (though ur vid about Ultron shows it may have already started there) and their development. And now we have She-Hulk getting the same fate (so far at least). So much potential wasted.
Edit: I’ll add this too: though they slaughtered the characters, Waititi is a great director with making light hearted and comedic films. When i didn’t know about the original comics, i found the film fun and exciting though i realize now it was largely due to the story and characters the previous movies had been building. Looking back now u can see how Waititi/others cherry-picked elements of some amazing Hulk and Thor stories, threw out the development of previous movies (thought that started way back in Hulk 2008), and then sold the film with a couple of well-timed jokes and terrible writing. Thor: Love and Thunder was done with the same formula (perhaps worse, especially on the political narratives and terrible writing), so no surprise it didn’t do well. Waititi’s approach to these characters comes off as arrogant and self serving which is really unfortunate bc i do admire his movies. The actors were also kinda culpable as you pointed out, with Ruffalo and Hemsworth not sticking with their characters’ progression (thing i bet they have less say).
Not only Hulk, also Thor got completely turned into a joke with Ragnarok... and even more so with L&T
Just a little FYI Fenrir is extremley powerful in Norse Mythology, after all he kills Odin, altough I agree that the movie don't characterized it as powerful enough
Sadly, all the decisions made in Thor: Ragnarok were surrounded by "Can we make a gag out this?". In the moment it might be funny but on repeated viewings, you realize how detrimental it is to the story and character.
Yikes. Hearing taikas interview puts a whole new perspective for me. He really doesn't understand or even respect the character
I didn’t mind the Hulk vs Fenris fight. I feel it makes sense since Fenris is a being capable of killing Odin. His jaws are capable of killing gods.
I just fucking wish we got to see the actual fight!!
Also the trailers made it seem that Hulk was actually gonna fight Surtur. Imagine how cool it would have been to see Thor and Hulk to team up and take him down!
After Game of Thrones last episode I remember reading something along the lines of "consistency, logic, characters? Directors dont care about it, they just want to make a cool scene"
Also the famous "subverting expectations" lol
Hulk is my favorite Marvel character. I was so excited he was one of the first to get a standalone movie in the MCU. The success of that movie helped lead to the rest of the franchise. If it had bombed right after Iron Man was a success, the MCU might never have happened. To see them treat his character worse and worse with each movie he was in-on top of him never getting another movie to star in-was just disappointing. After Ragnarok came out and they changed his character almost completely while removing any chance we'd get a Planet Hulk movie, I was done with it. Especially when they emasculated and then killed the Hulk in Infinity War right after that. This current version walking around the MCU is Mark Ruffalo's Bruce Banner and not the Hulk. The Hulk was weakened so he could lose to Thanos and then he was never seen or heard from again. It's just Ruffalo Banner now.
yeah. they have literally killed the Hulk Personality
Mcu made Hulk weak. And later they made him a walking joke. And afraid that it will become even worse in the future.
Hulk's character was assassinated after the first Avengers movie. He never won another fight after it.
I'm not a comic book guy but planet hulk is one of the few plotlines that I really like because it's basically a Greek tragedy with the trappings of a superhero comic.
Not a single soul comes out of that story unless they're miserable and it's great.
MCU was *NEVER* going to adapt that storyline; the too expensive on the budget & tonally miles away from what they prefer with their 'widest possible appeal's approach.
It sounds like the more you describe hulk and his interactions with Thor and Valkyrie, the more it sounds like the gray hulk, Joe Fixit. Selfish, helps others to get what he wants, smarter than savage hulk but meaner than Bruce banner, mean enough to not care about killing others. Damn, he should’ve been in the movie, and then green hulk should’ve come out to help Thor defend the asgardians on the bridge!
Eric Bana: The Incredible Hulk
Edward Norton: The Incredible Hulk
Mark Ruffalo: The Insufferable Drunk
Mark was a great Hulk, now his Hulk is a joke but Avengers1 and 2 Hulk was better than Norton and Bana
Ruffalo was the worst cast change
The 2008 version looks less cartoony that what we have in 2022
when Thanos bitch slapped him and he cried , that was the end of the Hulk
Infinity War was a thinly veiled hate letter anyways.
It was FUBAR that they tried to act like the bad guy wiping out half of all life in the cosmos was a 'good' thing
Said it from day 1, Ragnarok is not a good film
It's better than love and thunder
@@sith29doesn't make it any less bad of a film
I've recently stumbled on your channel due to the Hulk essays, and I have to say you're doing an amazing job analyzing the characters, themes and meaning behind them.
It's insane how this tragic, misunderstood and heroic character was turned into a violent, overgrown toddler with zero depth. Imagine having a story about a man, who thinks that he is a monster, and a monster, who wants to be left alone, how both of them suffer from not being able to be with people they love and how both of them fight relentlessly to protect those around them - and then imagine throwing it all away, because you wanted "le funny green man punches things". It's as if someone at MCU headquarters is afraid of accidentally making movie without characters winking at a camera, so instead everything is a complete mockery and buffoonery.
Hulk hiding with Betty in a cave from the storm was so much more emotional than whatever the hell this abomination is supposed to be.
The only good thing Ragnarok left was Thor and Hulk's design, the rest _sucks._
Ed Norton was right
The Hulk's maturity levels dropping makes sense if the Maestro is in control and trying to impersonate Hulk, but I doubt they're going that way.
It doesn't seem that way, unless with She-Hulk or after, that is going to be the case.
The MCU messed up on a billion dollar trilogy or more with Hulk. Planet Hulk and World War Hulk would have been great movies if written right
I like that your 'sona isn't a pretty anime boy/girl. It's unique but still expressive.
Actually looks kind of badass, too.
Ruffalo having those "questions" about the Hulk proves he knows little, if anything about the character.
Underrated channel
af
Hot take: I don’t like Ragnarok because it’s what changed the MCU from being more serious to be more jokey.
Ruffalo clearly wasn’t a Hulk guy going up. This is ATROCIOUS!!
hulk sound like hes autotuned
I miss Edward Norton Hulk
For the “he’s a god” argument I immediately thought of the Loki scene from avengers
I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one who thought that Hulk was completely disrespected in Ragnarok. I personally don’t enjoy this film all that much, with Hulk’s childish personality change being partially to blame. I’m just glad we got the Thor in Infinity War (not Endgame) out of the film.
Not only hulk but thor also.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who dislikes this movie for what it did to Hulk and Banner; heck, this entire movie is riddled with plot-holes. Especially considering that Hela's entire purpose is to get off Asgard with the Bi-Frost and she needs Heimdal's sword...while Odin's Spear is literally laying about in the Throne Room the _entire time._
But truth is...I actually began to hate Ruffalo's version of Banner as far back as Iron Man 3; you make a big point about how much Banner wants to help people and would help his friends. Iron Man 3, in the brief time he's in it, shows the beginning of Banner's downward spiral into _selfishness._
It's a cameo at the end credits that reveals, the Framing Device of the entire movie; Tony's narration the entire time, has actually been him recanting the events, and talking about his PTSD to Bruce...And as Tony concludes the story and thanks Banner for being a good listener, the camera reveals that Bruce has _fallen asleep,_ and has been asleep since literally the story began...Bruce then comes up with the excuse, "I'm not that kind of doctor."
....Yeah, because Bruce Banner would know absolutely _nothing_ about traumatic experiences and Post Traumatic Stress Disorders...he'd have _absolutely nothing_ to say to Bruce on that...
Truth be told, I see that scene redone with Norton; and there's no way in Hell Norton would play that off like a joke. He'd actually have something constructive to say to Tony - maybe some _breathing exercises,_ yoga, things to help keep him calm when he has an anxiety attack.
this is what we got instead of planet hulk
Jesus how many times is mark gonna repeat himself
So I am re watching the 1st 2 hulk movies. I just realized that the scene where hulk is mad at the sky and thunder isn't because he doesn't know what it is. It's because it's a call back to the 1st movie where the last time he saw/heard thunder and lightning it's because he was fighting his dad in lightning form. The hulk remembers the dangers he had been in and actively takes measures to defend against them. The 2nd movie isn't a direct sequel but it does try to pick up where the 1st left off which means the regression of the mcu hulk is much more impact full than anyone realizes. The hulk is an intelligent being and had been basically an adult because he was created as an adult. He had the intelligence of an adult but was normally blinded by anger but now he's a 2 year old? How could they do this to arguably the most interesting character the mcu has to offer.
Hard to believe Marvel fired Edgar Wright for wanting "to much creative control" over Ant-Man, a character that honestly nobody is that emotionally attached to and could have done basically anything with, but they allowed Taika Wakiti to completely re-write Thor and Hulk. Two characters that had already been established in universe.
I feel like I’m the only one who thinks this but I feel ragnarok is start of what marvel is now with the constant jokes and things like that, it was a good movie but it got so popular Disney thought every movie and character needs to be like this and it’s not just annoying
“look at how they massacred my boy”
Taika doesn’t know how to write comic book heroes
The problem when you want to criticize someone for not knowing or caring about the source material when you dont know it yourself.
- Are we to believe Fenhir is stronger than a Leviathan ?
YES.
From the Profile in Marvel Material: Asgardian Wolf Physiology: Fenris, as an Asgardian Wolf, and the personal pet and steed of the Goddess of Death Hela, was one of the most powerful and fearsome beings in the Nine Realms, to the point that even Heimdall showed fear when cornered by the beast on the Rainbow Bridge, only preparing to face it once he knew it was absolutely necessary.
that makes sense but unless most people dug that deep, they wouldn't know that. I agree with you but the movie is very inconsistent with Hulk and Thor's powers and to some degree with Hela too. Fenris gets no explanation whatsoever. They could have even had a quick moment to show how much power he has. He's just a big wolf to most viewers and the fight with Hulk was meaningless as they didn't set it up at all. Not just that but the fight had so many quick cuts that you couldn't even get invested in it and then Fenris just slides down a waterfall. That's it. It didn't mean anything, and it didn't even add anything for the hulk and that was it. The quick fight didn't have much impact or cool moments. It just felt like a throwaway CGI battle
6:35 fenrir in Norse mythology is planetary power so technically yes, fenrir in Norse mythology > leviathan, but to be fair, Marvel is very inaccurate when it comes to Norse mythology, if this was accurate, fenrir would be constantly growing, so I highly doubt this fenrir is planetary power
I seriously despise Taika after watching Ragnarok honestly the most overrated director
He sucks. He can't take anything serious to save his life.
thor needed charm but he should still be serious.
He always had charm and levity but he was still a mature character with his growth intact and a Norse god acting like a Norse god is somehow an "issue" to y'all?
This is why movies like Ragnarok are made to appeal to the mainstream masses to eat up smh.
Hulks voice is so strange in ragnarok. It sounds like an autotune from a rap song
They didn't break any rules all of this happened in the comics they were just to lazy to explain it or research. Why the hulk was able to stay in control
4:48 Thor did not struggle against Iron man. Thor had been on earth before and had learnt that not every situation needs to be a fight so he was going easy on Tony stark while trying to talk to him.
Lore of How HULK Became a JOKE momentum 100
Look how they massacred my boy😔
The MCU has been doing Hulk dirty for a while now, even despite the absence of a standalone film since Phase 1. He's the shining example of wasted potential.
First, there is no mention of Brian Banner, or the abuse and trauma Banner struggles with. Second, there was the Norton fiasco. Third, there was that forced relationship with Natasha. Then we got Ragnarok, Hulk giving up in cowardice in Infinity War, and the forced "development" into Professor Hulk. And finally, the absolutely nonsensical disaster that is She-Hulk.
And that's just the TL;DR summary.
They should have directed Hulk's and Banners arc towards his PTSD, maybe have it so that Banner repressed his traumatic memories until Wanda's mental manipulation resurfaced them, causing the Hulk to be more volatile and unstable as a direct result. They showed Tony's, Cap's, and Thor's terrifying visions, why not Banner's? Make that the focus rather than a forced romantic subplot. You know, tap into the thematic core of Ang Lee's depiction of the Hulk.
As much as I really liked Guardians of the Galaxy, I really do think that it was probably the worst possible thing to happen to Marvel as a studio. Because now every movie has to be a joke factory with a “I know/like that song” soundtrack. Taika for all his talks about making Thor something different and “the Taika school of filmmaking”, all he did was just make a Guardians movie and completely lost the identities of both Thor and Hulk. It’s a shame and quite telling how well received Ragnarok was. Audiences don’t care about the character, they only care about being fooled.
FINALLY! Someone else points that out. There was no actual "risk" or "experimentation" with this movie. It's just a shitty pseudo Guardians movie with even worse dumb and childish unfunny humor all because Taika the idiot man child he is wanted to inflate his ego, Hemsworth was just bored and insecure about his career and so wanted to ruin a great character, and Ruffalo just went along with it with his regressed knowledge of the character.
And audiences the vast majority of them only care about entertainment and if a character is "charming" or not or funny
What they did to hulk is pretty much what modern feminism is doing to modern masculinity compare the hulk 2002 and now you can see the decline
I think he wanted to know what hulk was like as a roomate
I feel like a lot has been sacrificed for the sake of pushing the "always funny MCU" montra.
Thanks for the video. Well done. An accurate depiction of the Hulk in a movie needs to be done to correct all the mistakes and holes. An apology needs to be made to the Hulk fans.
Hulk has multiple personalities, and the Hulk in the movies is shown to be the Savage Hulk, so Hulk should be unwilling to fight after Ultron, and always sound like a child, and have the intelligence of one, but not lose progression in maturity. The writers wanted to follow the comics, but didn’t get it right for the plot!
Amazing vid dude, well edited to the point it gives me E;R vibes. Subbed
1. Bro, do you even know Hulk? Do you really think he wouldn't survive a trip to space?
2. You also don't understand how the Odinforce works. You're underselling Fenris, too.
3. Hulk did leave Earth believing they feared and hated him again after the Hulkbuster incident. I do agree there's a lack of Natasha as a reason though.
4. I do have to immensely praise you on the matter of Hulk's emotional maturity, you were spot on and while a man of few words previously, Hulk's childlike nature usually confers him a sort of morality that many times makes him the big man in the room.
In conclusion, you started out iffy but ended the video very VERY strongly, and laid out the points that would end up being the ruin of Love and Thunder
comic hulk would survive in space, mcu hulk would not
@@knightofkorbin888 I understand your points but if Hulk got to Sakaar and survived, that pretty much establishes that he can survive in space.
@@F4lc0_Is I thought that he was more pointing out that it didn't make sense how he got to a black hole or portal especially since the jet doesn't fly into space and especially not deep space. They just brush past it. I think that they could have shown even a brief number of guilt about Natasha and why hulk left. It doesn't explain why he's ok just staying there under anyone's thumb. Hulk always wanted to be left alone and he never allowed himself to be controlled. Fenris is undersold but the movie gave us nothing on Fenris. Even a brief display of power would suffice. To most people, it looks like hulk just fights a big wolf in a throwaway fight that didn't even have a big impact or a good conclusion. A lot about the comics didn't make it to the movies but we could be content with just a little explanation. Power levels were just all over the place and this movie is one of the biggest offenders
@@BenjaminBilyeu-jm3tc Bro these movies are cash grabs made to entertain and blind you to shit that is outside your control and shit that is within your control but we all become to complacent and lazy to act on. Most industries are made for that, mind-numbing entertainment, forget about this dumb 2-hour roller coaster ride, the only good MCU movies are Iron Man 1 and the Guardian of the Galaxy trilogy.
@@F4lc0_Is i agree about these being cash grabs for sure. They did just enough to keep people invested in the characters and then everyone praised Ragnorok and especially Endgame. Both were terrible to me because of major plot holes and need to be funny that took me out of the movies. I think Infinity war was good and a few others were good but not great movies. Just entertaining at best
Edward Norton wouldn’t have allowed the hulk turn into a joke
They never actually GAVE any reason for why Hulk left Earth. The closest we got was Bruce saying he had to run now because the world has finally seen the REAL hulk. Your hypothesis that Hulk left to avoid hurting people is just your headcanon. Don't treat it as if it's anything more.
I think why Thor was able to fight Hulk in Ragnarok was due to Hulk not being enraged. Hulk gains power the more he in angry, and in the comics, hulk and thor are equal in strength, which implies that Thor might have the same rage based power boost. Thor was insulted and made more and more angry due to hulk not caring. We also see that Hulk cares less about many things as he is trying to find himself as a character unrelated to banner.
Shrek is supposed to be funny, not the Hulk.
taika looks like a hobo that people though was the director so they just listen to everything he said also even if old banner was boring and uninteresting, it doesn't mean his boring to the fans, here's an actual good tip if you don't know why a character is so good in people's eyes, then know why this character is so good cause, it makes you write the character and the interactions with that character even more better and not just "we're gonna change everything about him cause we think he's boring" if you're confident enough to say that then you should have at least a good understanding of that character. also it's sad we didn't had any signs of to warn us about this...
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Hulk is my favorite marvel character I remember thinking after seeing Ragnarok I don't like the spoiled child joke direction they take the hulk in. I remember everyone online saying how great and perfect it is I thought I was going crazy I was hoping it was a one and done little did I know what I was in store for😭😭
holy shit this video is amazing. i KNEW Ragnarok fucked up the Hulk but i never knew it was THIS bad
Bruce’s personality makes perfect sense as prelude to “Professor Hulk” In Ragnarok, he is “Hulk-ish Banner” They’d begun to become one
Thank you for this video..... Disney/Hollywood has destroyed so many people's childhood with what they've done with so many established characters. Completely destroyed them. I have to admit initially I liked Thor Ragnarok but only because Hulk was being shown as fearless and strong attacking a demon god and giant wolf i was stoked even for those brief seconds. But ultimately the comedy ruined him for further movies. And Disney as a whole not knowing how to write him into a story and steal make the good guys look like they're overwhelmingly on the losing side they nerfed and made him an imbecile. For me this is unforgivable by Disney and hence forth all their content will absolutely be pirated, and that's if i find it enjoyable as i haven't watched most of their recent crap after Infinity War and Endgame where they gave Hulk no redemption.
I just want to point out, Fenris is substantially more powerful than a Leviathan. Hulk vs Fenris isn't just Hulk vs some random big wolf.
Terrible fucking movie though in hindsight.
Which is even worse because we don't get to see the battle between these two powerhouse characters. Not to mention there's no real build up or any indication that the mcu Fenrir is that strong. And hulk deals with him offscreen and it doesn't seem like he had to fight very hard to defeat Fenrir. Fenrir is basically just a convenient plot device to get Hulk out of the way so that Thor and Valkyrie seem cool.
For me Ragnarok as a MCU film or a Thor sequel is like expecting me to treat Space Balls as a legit sequel to The Empire Strikes Back, the borderline self-parody like tone just makes such a thing hard to buy.
This video made me realise something- Ruffalo is just as much of a bad liar and socially awkward guy as i am- I feel a bit bad for his defence. He's laughing as if its all he can do. Almost like he wanted the character to go in a different direction. Im pretty sure he also stated about world war hulk and being fully down for that side of hulk- so he was probably waiting for a chance to do that.
Hey, comic accurate Hulk always needs to prove he's the "strongest one there is!", It's a behavioral thing. So it somewhat makes sense he may enjoy hand to hand gladiatorial combat.
But due to that same character trait, wouldn't he also hate being captured and forced to fight for the amusement of others? Seeing himself as the "Strongest one there is," wouldn't this scenario mean that he isn't top dog here, and that someone is above him calling the shots?
@@totallynotamimic3522 But was he really captured? I mean everyone treated him like a star basically. He had his own luxurious room (that he later shared with Thor), he was adored by so many fans during his arena fights, cheered on. I really think he didn't consider himself a prisoner, rather a guest, or even being in a place he thinks of as "home", a place he finally belongs to.
But he was fighting significantly weaker foes, so that makes no sense here. It’s not like he was fighting abomination or Thor or Thanos level people there on Sakaar. He would have nothing to prove. And he’s also killing slaves so yeah this is character assassination
@@sadchild9478 Well after Age of Ultron Hulk was just depressed. He landed on a planet that treated him like a star and spent 2 whole years there. Maybe he lost his drive and decided to accept his new life without having to stress about anything. He became immature because he no longer needed to worry about his issues on Earth and could just ignore them. It's a low point, not too different from fat Thor. Now, granted, I absolutely hate what they did to Hulk from Ragnarok onward, but it's understandable that he'd act the way he does. If, instead of being played for jokes, Hulk's issues were taken seriously and properly explained, it could've been really good.
Only problem is that's not in the films.
4:55 Thor explained in the dark world he held back against Loki
Like Worf in later Star Trek, or piccolo in DBZ, or the dinobots in G1, they turn once tough characters into comic relief and it’s a real lame joke no one finds funny.
This is a great breakdown, thank you. It’s also nice seeing more criticism of this film, though I hadn’t realized it seems to have been ground zero for most of the writing problems that have since come to dominate the MCU. It’s made even more frustrating because the parts that work, Hela and re-contextualizing Odin’s rule, and the visuals, show that Taika and the production could have made a great Thor movie that was consistent and still fresh.
I mean Thor went even with Hulk, Loki was already beaten down and blown up when Hulk beat him up, and Thor can be safely implied to have gotten stronger and more competent in his previous movie appearances, even if Dark World sucked, he got stronger in it.