This is why I stayed in a narcissistic marriage for so long. Everything was so subtle. Til this day nobody else sees what’s really going on. It wasn’t until I learned about narcissism that it started making sense. Thanks again for shining the light in things!
I feel your pain! I know your pain! I know so many people fired for speaking and/or acting out because of narcissist bosses. Insidious narcs in personal relationships is overwhelming. I see them now as humans corrupted by demonic activity. We normals try to see good in people while they narcs USE people and DRAIN them dry of everything. Be at peace and know there are people that commiserate with you.
Same. His family was in shock when i took our son and left. He acted so caring and such a puppy outside the house... They could not wrap their heads around..
Same here it took me 31 years I couldn’t see it but I didn’t know theses people existed my mother is one to so I never knew. Than once I did know I ‘m beaten down and old I can’t leave no help or support
It’s particularly bad when, after you’ve looked up and see yourself isolated, you also see that you’ve forgotten how to simply interact in a healthy way with healthy people-you literally forget.
I am 70. I was the scapegoat of my family since I was 4. I cannot tell you how your channel and the others on narcissism have helped me understand my life. Even though I still suffer some of the long term effects, the relief I feel in at least understanding what happened gives me some peace of mind. I pray every day for the lost and the broken, as I call us, and hope that they can heal from their wounds a lot sooner than I did. Thank you for all your help.
This channel has been my savior in so many ways. Am healing, learning how to love myself again. Even though my narc has called me all kinds of names to bring me down. I tried to reason him by asking how can you say you love someone and yet you call them a piece of s..t. I never got an explanation 😢
@@kagey03 you know and he isn't aware of that. Start planning How is possible for you to leave ? You need money...start saving. You need a place to stay, check out housing associations etc. Get your name on lists etc Give yourself a 5 year plan... no rush, do it properly.
@@kagey03If you don't know how to have the divorce conversation, you can write a letter and leave it on the kitchen table for him to find after you've left. My friend did that. She never engaged in any talks about getting back together, and she never met with him alone in the beginning. They had to talk about the practical arrangements regarding the kids, but not alone. She found the strength to leave because she saw the psychological damage his narcissistic rage had on her kids. He wasn't badly physically violent, but very scary. If you fear physical violence, or worry about money, there are women's shelters you can call for advice. They can help you with paperwork for financial aid, and a safe space for you to stay. Good luck, and all the best! You deserve better than that!
The narcissist will drive a wedge into your relationships with loved ones then blame you for not being close to them like it’s a major character flaw of yours.
Exactly what is happening in my family, the N codependency in our family has wedged apart each of us in really specific ways. So insidious that I never understood the mechanisms.things are starting to change and come to light now that one of the codependency has passed. The N is now working on another part of the extended family. I’m exhausted
I have a friend who's friendship I treasure to this day She continued to call to my home while my ex would be extremely sarcastic with her She was able to greyrock & sit with me for hours as he would just ignore her & retire to bed That same friend helped me in so many ways ie child minding my children when I broke up with my malignant narcissist We are friends to this day & I so admired her diplomacy re not reacting to his verbal assaults One heck of a friendship that weathered the storms of his verbal assaults & continued to support me Your videos have been a life line for me DrRamini and I remain a faithful friend in this community
Likely she also greyrocked if he tried to sucker her into friendship with him to later cut her off and out of your life. What a wise woman and a true friend.
Mum mum has a similar friend who lived opposite us, they are still great friends now in their eighties. Our father never set foot in that house, it was our safe zone
Whenever my mom would say “it’s okay, you can tell me. You can be honest with me. I won’t freak out”… I knew it was a trap but that didn’t stop me from feeling at the time like I could open up and be honest. I always stepped in it because I wanted to believe it would be okay.
Wow my mother often gossips with me about people and then when I give my opinion she says “are you jealous of her also because you’re such a loser?”. I said why do you start the conversation I call it “leading the witness”.
My narc family isolated me from everyone close to me. I started to enjoy the solitude and ignored them. They didn't plan on that. Make them lose control over you
Be careful of people who don’t respect boundaries or your privacy One thing I’ve learned over the years is better alone than in bad company. I just don’t have the patience for toxicity after a long time
That “disapproval hanging in the air” was a constant from my Dad in my teens: My clothes, my hairstyle, my favourite music, my interests, the things I valued or wanted - I never got to be myself without a subtle sense of disapproval.
I totally relate, except it was my mother who could never be pleased. My father was about unconditional acceptance, which I think is the only way he could have tolerated my mother, and saved my sanity from a worse fate.
Yes because it’s our parents, like how are they the initial most dangerous people in our lives. But no because they are our first groomers. For the first 16, 17 or 18 years of your life, depending on when you left home, you are being groomed to be palatable for predators bc you had to be palatable for your own first caretakers.
You can either endure the pain of no contact or the pain of abuse. You will be in pain either way. So choose which form of suffering you can withstand.
Love this! This should be said wayy more! I’m going to do no contact completely with my narcissistic brother, father, and paternal grandparents, and my whole paternal family because they are all narcissistic I think. I will carry on socialising only through important occasions like birthdays, mother’s/ Father’s Day/ Boxing Day etc because it keeps me safer that way to “hide in plain sight” so they don’t know I know that I hate them all. At least seeing them a few times a year is the price to pay for a life of happiness on the other days. I can accept that. 🥰💝
Yep. It becomes easier to just not maintain friendships. The narc will find all kinds of ways to punish you for spending time with anyone but them. This happened to me exactly like you describe in this video
Yes! So sorry this happened to you also. They will demonize your friends, family and even your hobbies or taste in food, music....It's about control, and the narc is addicted to it. 😢
Narcissists live in their own reality and they will try and make you live in their world and make you see reality from their perspective. Even when you have the facts to prove your points they will distort everything make you look like the one in the wrong. This is why it is impossible to reason with them.
I couldn't agree with you more. Now that I know what I am dealing with I can see what happened in the past. The distortion or flat out deceit is amazingly unsettling! I am not overstating this either, especially when you have undeniable facts.
JL15545, you’re right on! They victimized, deny, and pass the blame on their victims, trying to make the victims look like they’re the bad guys, instead of the perpetrators. The sad thing is, when your moral support start listening to the abusers gaslighting!
Narcissistic parents do this to their children, too. Every time the kid has a friend, they gas light in this covert way. Then they claim that the child was the one who no longer wanted to socialize (when maybe the child wanted to simply escape narcissistic abuse as penalty for trying to make friends.) The children can grow up socially stunted because of it.
This resonates deeply with me. My ex did this to me for forty years untilmI got out 3 yrs ago. Isolated me from my family for the last 15 years.one of His favourite things was saying "everytime your family ring up I have to put up with you for weeks". When they stopped contacting me I was convinced they didn't want to know me. Only after I left him and restablished contact did I find out he destroyed letters, cards, didn't tell me about visits or phone calls. It devastated me. Did may many other horrible things, killed my pets, destroyed and sold my possessions, stalked me etc etc. But the worst was the gaslighting, rage and lies. What's worse is that our four adult children have been convinced that I am the villain. The abuse was so bad I had to move very far away to be safe. Truly evil 😈
Dear Debbie alot of what u've described I to have been through having adult children turned against their mother is heart breaking yet just remember our children adults or not don't truly know what is really going on. Best we can do is tell them we will always Love them always here for them. 💠
Thankyou. I am sorry that you also have experienced it. It is heartbreaking. Unfortunately my children have taken on the roles of flying monkeys and actively joined in. Even trying along with him to cheat me out of the settlement. It is still ongoing. He has kept court action going for 3 years as it is his only means of control. Even a DVO he flouted. I will never understand how they can accept that torturing and killing my pets is acceptable. And they did see a lot of things as I stayed with them on occasions when he was so bad. Yet now they deny anything happened. Go figure. I am glad I am away from it all now. Peace and happiness to you for Xmas and the year ahead ❤❤
Debbie, we have the same heartbreaking story. My ex was so good at shaping the smear campaign, that the kids are on on it. They now remember his twisted version of history. I taped him when he tried to make me crazy by revising versions of history, so I KNOW the truth. But losing your children and grandchildren is HEARTBREAKING. I don't know how you are managing your grief, but would love any insights for coping. Godspeed in your healing journey.
I am sorry for your pain and loss. Same happened to me. my 2 adult children hate me even though he is the abuser, was to them also (but he is rich). My oldest is married and now pregnant. I was not invited to the wedding and am not invited to be part of my grandchild's life. I would rather not be in my grand child's life if my daughter will use her child as a pawn to pull my heart strings and manipulate/control me with (she has been manipulative and hurtful to me before and has not talked with me about it - as though she feels entitled to cause me pain). My grandchild deserves better, so if I am not around (not invited to be anyway) then maybe my grand child wont see her mother's narcissism. At least not on account of me. Radical acceptance and learning to trust my Creator with what I had wanted my life to be like helped me drop the rope and carry on. You are a survivor, you are inspiring!!!
Narcissists in my life talked like mob bosses. They wormed their way into my brain and tried their best at mind control. My mom has passed on and I divorced my husband long ago. I’m 72 and still learning how much damage they did.
This is the sort of thing my mother was incredible at. So sly and conniving. She could NOT countenance any friendship or mentoring or hint of happiness. Spider-like, she’d carefully go about destroying anything that was good or healthy or helpful.
I know a narcissist who has completely brainwashed his wife. She’s isolated, 100% of time and energy on kids and him. Yet, she’s convinced that this is the best for her. She stopped fighting, and completely defends him. I feel sorry for her. She’s insanely tired and drained, but also in denial of her reality. She has been completely consumed whole.
I have seen this with family. Most likely she: 1. Has professional or financial PTSD and fear 2. Is also a covert or vulnerable narcissist and wants a come up off of him.
Covert narcissists, at least those around me, try to paint a picture that we don't know what we are talking about. What they fail to mention is that they have been unavailable, or playing games. They want complete control, meanwhile they have no idea what my job entails.
This was my life. I worked to include her in my social circle and she alienated every person I cared about one at a time. I was so stupid. She convinced me that she was the only one who cared about me and that because of a long list of faults, no one else ever would. After all, x thing I confided in her proves no one would ever want someone like me. She took everything I had and when she finally left, she took our newborn son as the coup de grace. I just wanted to be loved and she made me believe it was possible. You don't realize what you're losing until it's too late
Another factor in beginning to avoid friends, for me, was the shame of having nothing much good to say about my life, I could only sustain a jolly conversation about how we all were and what we were doing by being very selective about the truth, and doing that felt wrong, causing me even more shame. I also thought that if I tried to explain things which had been happening they wouldn't believe me anyway, but to be honest I never really tried. It got to a point where communication with my old friends was often just too awkward for me to cope with, through no fault of theirs. This all began happening years before I realised that my husband was a covert narcissist. I was a gaslighted mess who thought the whole family's problems wer all my own fault. I am divorced now, and amazingly two of my friends are still getting in touch from time to time and I hope I might be able to make amends, but I lost so much time. And I still don't know how or whether to talk to them about why.
This is pure gold, Dr. Ramani. Perfectly describes my married life. I am so alone, isolated, guilty, ashamed, abused. Thank you so much for what you do. You've probably saved my life. Still hanging in there. I am healing. Every day is a struggle.
Locked within a sphere of deep emotional and possibly even mental issues, how can narcissists yet be so cunning and strategic? It's almost like they tap into someone or something that trains and coaches them in how to devise and plan the takeover and take-down of their target. How do they gain the knowledge of becoming weaponized like that? Also, it seems to me that even when they come from different backgrounds and various areas of the country or the world, their strategies and tactics are the same! Again, it seems like they are all part of the same "militia" and coached by the same system and commanding officers. I would really like your thoughts on this, Dr. Ramani. Thank you!
Oh God. Dr. Ramani!! You cleared my fog. I was so confused. He never said not to visit my parents. But insidiously criticized me and disapproved my visits through becoming silent or angry indirectly on other things.....
I just realized something. I don't communicate with my older siblings, going on 10 plus years. I believe my father to be narcissistic, and my older siblings never did much to stay in contact, but from their abusive behavior I decided to strictly stay away. I remember now... growing up, my father would speak negatively about everyone, my siblings and aunts and uncles, neighbors...everyone. One year I tried to get in touch with an aunt, someone I hadn't seen since pretty much childhood, she didn't want to visit at all. The "isolation" kind of makes more since now. I also wondered why I rarely saw my grandmother growing up, only twice a year maybe, yet as I got older, I realized she actually lived pretty close by.
Remember they are probably protecting themselves by their actions. Proceed carefully and cautiously if that’s your intent. Acknowledge them and the pain they must have felt. Peace!
I have been in the same situation. Starting with a “Mommy Dearest” drunk mother, with an awful childhood. Every time our family got together they were drinking to get drunk, I have a Margarita or two a year. My two siblings haven’t had anything to do with me since our mother passed 18 years now. My two aunts don’t ever call me and the last time I talked to the one that was around me as a child told me that she doesn’t like to talk on the phone. Looking back I was the one that called everyone to see how they were doing. My phone doesn’t ring unless it’s my narcissistic husband checking up on me. I can count on one hand in 20 years how many times my aunt’s has called me. Isolation is his game for 40 years now. Last year I found these channels on narcissism and now know that I have had many narcissistic people in my life. I find myself at the store talking to strangers just to feel alive.
@@cyndim8785I’m the same as you. My whole paternal family including dad and older brother are narcissistic. My paternal grandparents are the most evil abusive narcissists I’ve ever met and have destroyed all of their children and grandchildren in some way. They had 5 children and those children had 1-3 babies so you can imagine the sheer scale of this three generation wide familial perpetual abuse cycle that’s finally ended with my empath mother and me saying no more to it all💝 I was upset the most about my older brother, he’s never been there for me emotionally, always trying to overshadow me when I’m in pain (for example I had a surgery once to remove a tumour and he tried to eclipse me in front of my mother by saying he had a bad flu or man flu or a flu of some kind I can’t remember what kind of flu it was but anyway he said he had a flu to garner attention for himself instead of letting me be the one on the hurt platform.. truly heartbreaking stuff. He also caused a rift a few Christmases ago by arguing with me just before Christmas. He destroyed Christmas for me and it’s completely broken our relationship, and I want nothing more to do with him now.
My ex-husband was a pro at this. Grima Wormtongue in the flesh, he was. It was a weird dynamic because I encouraged him to have friends and spend time with them, but he put down the few friends I had remaining until I had no friends and was completely isolated. God, what a demon he was. Thanks, Dr Ramani!
My ex tried to tell me I'm autistic. She insisted over and over and she might have even made her own reality where it's true. Now I know that she just wanted to isolate me from people bu making me think I dont "get it." She lied about other peoples perceptions of me. Now I realize she was just jealous of how authentic, talented, smart, engaging, hot, and bodacious I am. Sayonara. Edit: no stigma no judging humans with those conditions, the lying is the problem not the condition.
My ex tried to convince me I was bipolar over and over because I would react to his abuse but was too afraid to leave. You are righr, they are jealous of our ability to be authentic. I am glad you got out :)
So similar! Growing up I genuinely thought I was likely to be bipolar too from hearing the same accusations over & over again and the anger & sadness I would feel in response. @@christinalewis6355 Turns out I’m not even related to the seriously mentally ill people in the family the narcs kept telling me I was just like.
@@Eliane-pf5nb It is insane! But never again. I like people that try to verify reality and help, not confuse reality and manipulate. I've learned how to honor myself and I can smell nonsense coming from a mile away now!
This resulted in me either losing friends or acquaintances. Confusion, isolation, loneliness and depression resulted. I even stopped playing golf for 10 years after I had bought new golf clubs. I used to say, if only I had recorded our conversations and played it back. I just never had the energy or time. She sucked me dry on every front. Energy vampires do that.
I can totally relate to the grief that comes once you realize you bought into the negative spin the narcissistic person casts upon people around you that could've been deep lasting friendships...
Ugh, yes, the grief was real. I realized I had bought into the warped reality they painted. Recognizing the lie was first, then the rest of the stages of grief. It manifested as I slept often for days in a depressive state to cope… This is all too real..
It's really sad when a person is made to feel so small in their lives, that the only way they can lift themselves up is by shitting all over the very things that are good and normal.
Yes, they plant seeds of doubt about anyone that comes close to us. If we dont listen and continue to have friendships, then they will start outright abusing them in front of us, even thought they know friends are important to us. We will be left with friends who are admirers/puppets/flying monkeys of the narcissist.
Yep, the same thing happened to me: My friend’s narc spouse would always be present at our meetings. First she tried to win me over. It didn’t work out, so she abused me in front of him. At some point I couldn’t stand it anymore and stood up for myself - that’s when she made him gaslight and discard me. I can only imagine the seeds she must have planted during the devaluation phase.
My ex, a middle sister, would bad mouth the youngest sister. Family gatherings would be as awkward as you might imagine when the eldest daughter and my ex would start in about how terrible the baby of the family is. It is very uncomfortable to be a guest in a house where character assassination goes on regularly. and to be told it is normal.
I went through this with my ex's family. Not only did the siblings trash each other but their mother did the same about any of her children that weren't present. It was very unsettling to watch a mother behave this way. When I left my husband his mother told me I deserved his verbal abuse. No one deserves that. Ever.
The mother was screwed up and screwed up her own children.... Hope they get therap6and break the cycle, and never pass this horrible behaviour to the next generation.
@@elliedaniels2245 That is exactly how my family operates but to them it's not disrespect and character assassination, that is how families treat each other according to their reality. My parents also behave like that but it's ok because they do not have to follow any social rules.
@@allefranz9031 The fact that you grew up that way yet still recognize that it's not how family should operate speaks volumes about your character and your ability to rise above what has been instilled in you. I wish everyone had your wisdom as the world would be a better place.
Grew up with a narcissist parent, but listening to this reminds me of my ex husband...The more I learn, the more it seems he had these qualities too, especially what you describe here.
This is my family to a tee. We never had people over. I have a super narcissistic sibling that had a falling out with my best friend growing up; after they stopped being friends, I had made plans with my friend, and was violently lunged at and went to work with a swollen black eye for the next week. My coworkers asked what happened and I made up that I had pink eye, but I could tell they knew I was lying. I never knew how to tell anyone else. Years later, my sibling “apologized” to me by saying that she had no other choice at the time and she just wanted the abuse to stop. The “abuse” was me being friends with her ex-friend.
I am the "reason" he hasn't any friends. How can I go out for dinner without him, he's 66, what will he eat? This is such an important aspect of narcissism, nothing anyone else can understand.
My mother would pit my sister and I against each other as well as other family members. (My son against me and my husband, my sister and her children, my auntie against ……you get the idea) I think it was a sick game Mum enjoyed playing and watching the show from the side. BUT she would do it in such a way that she wouldn’t get blamed for it. “I never said that” was one of her fav lines. And she’d be right. He way of pitting us agains each other was so subtle and underhanded that you got lulled into thinking that the other person was against you or said something when they didn’t .
Thank you for this reminder that some of their manipulations are so insidious. I have been struggling due to that fact. It’s like there is all this fallout but if someone were to ask for examples of how the manipulation / gaslighting took place I would not have an exact answer. I believe this happened with my children too. The bad treatment is there, I am learning of things I never knew, ie secrets. There is still so much that no one is saying and it DOES leave one feeling like their thinking/memory must be skewed. However, as you state in your gaslighting course, I am one of the people who still feels like I have to write things down; that I need proof. I am trying to remind myself that this would not happen in a healthy relationship. Thanks again Dr. Ramani!
I too thought about writing down all of the bad things that had happened to me as evidence but I didn't want to keep reminding myself of the terrible things that I went through. So, I stayed and nursed myself until I landed on this channel. Am so grateful to Dr. Ramani. Thank you ❤
Thank you. My mother does this… I have boundaries with her, but she has been asking me to visit her in the past two weeks and assist with matters she says are serious. I make the time. I appear. The short story is that she did not need me, she just wanted me to show up. On my way out she says “by the way… (insert narcissistic/manipulative comment here).
This started early for me. She would chip away at everyone who could have any influence in my life at all. First my parents, then my brother, every friend, coworkers…until it’s just me, alone, exactly one arms length away from anyone who could help me see what was happening…then my eyes opened 4 years ago. It was like being let out of a dungeon. I’m still here, but now I trust my own assessments of people. I realized that she has literally NEVER met anyone good enough. Well, I’ll settle for being as good as all the nice people we know.
Absolutely spot on, as always. This is one of the most difficult elements to comprehend in narcissistic relationships. The slow erosion, hour by hour, day by day. Both my mother and my ex used this tactic to establish isolation but as if it was my choice. With my mother, the impact was more profound because I never had a chance to develop my self, personality etc. Any sign of that happening and my mother would quickly act in this manner, as if to isolate me from myself.
O.M.G. That man did exactly this. Every single person I became close to. He even told me my one friend hates me. With my other friend, who liked taking photos, he’d say “ugh, what an ugly woman”. She’s beautiful, by the way. Always some abrasive comment. This video is soooo spot on. He even did this with my family… Wow. So glad I’m out of it now.
OMG, this is soooo true. I do recognize this pattern from my childhood - growing up with a narcissistic father and both grandmothers (mother was too traumatized), we hardly ever had any guests at home. I only remember my mom having a couple of friends over before I started school. This was never approved by my father and he would do EXACTLY THIS every time. Eventually, my mom had no friends at all and I only got to have playmates beyond kindergarten or school a couple of times during my ENTIRE CHILDHOOD. Of course, it affected my connections later in life and I've always felt lonely and jealous of people who would talk about their "childhood friends" - I only started forming proper friendships at high-school. When my parents finally divorced (ofc father had to make it as messy and painful for both of us as possible, I was a teenager then) my mom went all in getting back in touch with her youth girlfriends and also having friends from work over, and I just stayed alone at home or was forced to stay in one of the rooms in our apartment and keep studying while they were chit-chatting and having fun till late at night. I wonder if this consistent feeling of loneliness contributed to my fear of abandonment I have to deal with now. Narcissists are cruel because they make sure to rob you of all the joy they can take away, and the effects are so long lasting.
My narc claimed that I “had a thing” for a certain professor I referred to occasionally. When I firmly disagreed he calmly with a smirk said, “oh yes you do, I can tell”. He had never met this professor nor had I taken a course with him. We were both members of a seniors centre and regularly worked together. I respected the man like everyone else who knew him. He had contributed greatly to the community. Narc prided himself on his ability to read people so since he thought that it MUST be true.
O my goodness! You have completely described my last 42 years with my vulnerable, covert narc husband! Up until covid, we were not stuck so closely inside, so I was never able to get anything to confirm my suspicions that he was 'sewing seeds of doubt' about me behind my back. Then his drinking increased and so did the level of his voice while on the phone. That's when I started hearing him talking about me in such a manner that would lead the listener to have doubts about my spiritual integrity. When I confronted him, he said he wouldn't do it anymore. Until the next time he did it. For years I had to listen to him talking about others in our congregation, doing his best to sew seeds of doubt about them to me. And for years I defended them. Now that I have finally separated from him, I am finding so much peace and joy. I still have to interact with him due to circumstances, but it's tolerable. Thank you so much for this video. I finally feel vindicated!
Each and every time I watch one of this videos, my jaw drops to the floor, because of the 110% accuracy in the wording and the people they do this to.... Wow!
Oh yes, this is exactly what happened to me, only that I was the “weird” friend who could not be trusted - especially after I saw what was happening in their relationship. You can either be an enabler or the enemy - there is nothing in between for narcissists. My friend’s covert narc spouse was always present at our meetings, and would always more or less subtly devalue me. At some point I couldn’t ignore it anymore, stood up for myself and was discarded immediately because “I broke his trust by trying to come in between them”. I can only imagine the seeds that were planted during the devaluation phase.
Another hallmark of people for whom their narcissistic tendencies are their overriding relationship approach, black and white thinking where you are either on their team or the villain.
Yep. He did do this. Every person I got along well with, he bad mouthed. He didn't tell me to stop talking to them, but he made it seem like there was something wrong in me wanting to talk to them... Much later on, when I had realized I was in a toxic mess and sought to pull away from him, he threw a barrage of insults at me. He shamed me for "not having friends". Crazy, crazy, crazy creatures they are... Smdh.
Here is a 46... the more I listen to your messages, I say to myself, How is this possible?... How come no one shares this information?... The world needs to know the damage a narc causes to the soul. Thank you very much Dr. Ramani. Many blessings for all the information you share… I'm a survivor Thanks for opening ours 👁️
Workplace narcissistic people and boss are also harmful. I hope Dr Ramani can teach some strategies of how to deal with narcissistic boss and coworkers. Thank you Dr Ramani.
I lived through a 20 yr relationship like this and after 10 yrs of recovery, I found myself in another. I don’t know if anyone has the ability to spot these monster up front.
My recent ex hated me going to a weekly meetup with friends to the point he tried to control my going with the “do we have the money for that?” or “we don’t have gas money for that” and so on, controlling me by making me feel as if spending a couple bucks in gas and eating a small meal with friends once a week was breaking the bank. It worked for a while, until I found you and realized he might have been a covert narcissist.
This video just unlocked some more realities i didnt notice. My ex who I stayed friends with would ask me why I thought this other girl was a friend, my decisions to pull away from this friend were heavily influenced by her and I didn't realize it at the time. Me ex was angry that I went to a meet up with people from our school who she had determined were not good people. By the end of grad school, I left with only her as a friend while she had her group and so on. I decided the no contact after she ghosted me and kept breadcrumbing me... and then i broke it when she reached out... she took space and used my abusive sister as justification for why she couldn't talk to me. I found it weird that she was comparing herself to someone she knew was verbally and emotionally abusive. After so long, I see her for what she shows me and that's that she grew resentful and contemptuous because I stopped letting her control me. I didn't realize this was what was happening at the time. I just know I was always anxious, and tired. Constantly dismissed to the point I believed I was the main problem. I started therapy, and unlearned things that I thought were noble, multiple chances, and no boundaries... its been a journey but I've learned so much about myself ever since she got angry at me for trying to hold her accountable. This is long-winded. Healing is weird, I'm much better but I still get hit with this sadness. It's weird not having this person in my life anymore. I just have to keep it moving, so far I've been alright.
This is FACTS!!! You don't even recognize what's going on, til you look up and realize that it's just you and the abuser- exactly how they want it. Power and control is sometimes subtle
My "mother" was queen of this technique in my youth. I've been wondering of late if that was why my friendships with both genders always fizzled for reasons I can't even remember.
I know my mom badmouthed me to others and that the other mothers didn’t like her “mask” that she wore in public (comes off as very insincere, fake, and judgy). That is why my friends dropped off.
My friends and family didn’t just behave oddly, they apparently also thought I was insane. Not wanting the drama, I withdrew from all personal interactions except the most civil and basic, until it dawned on me that I was completely alone except for him, our children and a few of his family, although he rarely let me visit the latter. When I brought this up - carefully, of course - he promptly told me that it was my decision to isolate myself but, despite my terrible personality and ongoing Alzheimer’s, he’s a hero for still putting up with me… PS: I don’t have Alzheimer’s.
I have done this. Now, since i see it, i feel terrible that i let my best friend go. At the time, i didn't even realize it was manipulation. Now, my best friend and i found our way back to eachother. I am out of my marriage and being able to talk to her helped me face what i needed to do. If i had kept close relationships outside of my marriage i fully believe i would have gotten out sooner.
They criticize and complain so much every time you interact with your friends or family members that you stop contacting those friends and family members.
Towards the end of my friendship with my narc, she became desperate and her actions obvious. During any conversation with a stranger, maybe talking about an upcoming event, she would but in saying to them “She’s disabled you know”. I’d angrily ask her why she just blurted that out with no relevance. (It was obvious she was trying to put people off talking to me.) She’d reply with “But it’s true, you are disabled”. Me: “That’s not the point”. Her: “Oh, so you’re ashamed of your disability”……and from there it would go round in circles.
My ex is currently on a smear campaign because I went no contact...I doubted her diagnosis at times but now I'm sure she's a full blown covert victim narc
Don’t worry about the diagnosis. We can get trapped into this thinking which keeps us in limbo and if she is an ex, it doesn’t matter to your new life. I got stuck in ruminating, well X does this but not that. X was able to express empathy but not always. X was transactional but also has anxiety. I gave up trying to diagnose and instead focused on the patterns I saw. Do they seem healthy, i.e. they can express feelings in a constructive way and problems are something to be solved, or do they act like you are either the villain to their main character or like they are miserable because the world is out to get them, i.e. if you just hadn’t done this, my life would be better? Do they lash out for trivial stuff and can you predict exactly what situations cause them to lash out? Then, it’s just a matter of working on you. Recalibrating your sense of self, boundaries and joy and moving on without another thought for them (much harder done than said).
Thank you for sharing about this. My biggest narc does garbage like this. In college, I was effectively forbidden from moving out on my own, though I earned a scholarship and would have paid for my own apartment. My scholarship covered the private school tuition. Then my sister went to school. They paid for her school, and they got her an off-campus apartment that they also paid for. Sheer ugliness, and the hurt will never leave. I had another big narc in my life. One day I went to the zoo as a sponsor with a group of loud 5th graders. I hated it, and I wanted to go back and enjoy the zoo alone. That narcissist said, "But you were just there." The dynamic was such that I was essentially forbidden from returning. "But I never told you not to go," would certainly have been the response. The narc did that to a friendship, too, leading me to lose contact for years with an old friend. Dangerous damaging people...watch out for them.
Dr. Ramani, Your insight into this topic is...Eerie actually in terms of accuracy. Thank you so much for your analysis on this. It's very thought provoking. So much to consider when navigating this world...
I actually feel like I'm the 1 that did this to my toxic ex. But I was able to see the red flags in his friends, just not the red flags from him. But we caused each other to be isolated from previous friends, which is why I say we were mutually toxic for each other. The difference is that I've become kinder and healthier since we split, and my friends have accepted me back with love.
Is it a common thing too for the narcissist to talk while you're on the phone with someone? I had one that did that. He'd comment on what was being said or go and ask me unrelated questions (asking things like: where did you put this or that? when are you going to the grocery store? etc.) and also sit in the room with an angry face, making me not feel comfortable making phone calls, like calling friends or family (he didn't like anybody, of course). This was before we all had mobile phones, it's a while ago but this video reminded me of that.
I've kept my friends from my family in part to protect them but also so they don't judge me by my family. You've probably covered this before but narcissists calling you 'defensive' when you are 'on' to them. By that I mean you have seen the red flag that something is coming and really do prepare your defenses be it grey-rocking or not going DEEP - whatever the strategy - and they try and gaslight you into questioning judgement so they can tear you down and leave you in a blubbering mess. Had that one at work recently. When these people are controlling you performance evaluation, are your referee or are highly influential in your career progression, if they set you in their sights on you they will tear you down if not directly then indirectly and it all starts with 'you're defensive' or 'you're too intense'.
Thank you from all my heart, Dr Ramani. So immensely helpful. Your clarity every time shines a light into the darkness and the doors that finally lead to finding the self become visible.
Ahh the word games of manipulation. How they control people! The stress it causes. I grew up never bringing friends to the house and so embarrassed by the cruelty. So very painful.
"planting seeds" So MANY seeds. Subtle, insidious, destructive seeds. Like an invasive species of plant that destroys the environment very quickly without making a single sound. Great episode!
I was laughing so hard! These scenarios are the recipe for great T.V. Or Netflix dramas. Sick pathology. Ramani should write a sort of “Bernstein Bear” child’s books for these IMMATURE adults!!! They would be GREAT!!
My husband has never told me to do or not do anything but I always know when I made the wrong decision by how he treats me afterwards. I rarely leave the house anymore and have so much anxiety, guilt and shame that on most days I cry on and off without knowing exactly why. If i try to talk about it he gets extremely defensive so i end up apologizing for upsetting him. I used to be able to handle things but now I just feel hopeless and worthless. Logically i know I'm worthy but my inner voice screams that Im getting what I deserve. Im at the point where I just cant fight anymore
They are so cautious with the wording they use and the things they say, carefully proof reading everything and ensuring it's not too direct and can easily be excused or dismissed at a later date should someone ever refer back to it. They imply but never instruct!
This is exactly what my husband tried to do. But i ignored him and it made him pissed off so much 😂. When i left i said that your videos helped me to get away from him, he still blames you for "ruining people's lives", and tries to convince me that i actually want to be with him and it is actually the outside world who has bad influence on me - my friends, my family, dr. RAMANI... Hahahahaha..... Thanks God im OUT! and most importantly - my son is not exposed to daily emotional abuse towards his mum and himself. What a total screwed up jerk that person is... Sick person.
This is how parental (or grandparental) alienation works too. And how is a child able to fight it? Or even get it? I remember a German TV movie on the topic where the mother gave the daughter a cellphone so that she could be in touch with the divorced Dad (shared custody). Only she made sure the number was blocked. So the kid called and called, but the Dad never picked up. And the mother had a reason to say: "See, Dad is not interested in you, so why are you still trying?" So devious it makes your blood curl. And not subtle at all. Very well explained in this video, so many examples come to mind, unfortunately...
the first example about Mary is what I came to know as “third partying”. I learned this in Scientology and “third partying“ is not exclusively a narcissistic ploy. It happens all the time to anyone.
During the 12 years with Mr. Narcissist, I lost a lot of friends; a couple of my closest friends have reminded me that I never introduced them to Mr. Wonderful but they have thank goodness stood by me after he dumped me. I feel so guilty for cutting these friends out of my life to spend more time with him. I am trying to mend fences now but it's hard...
I am in the fight of my life over this very thing! My narc daughter started out with little comments saying my husband was weird (he is her step dad). Anything to try to get between us! It didn't work, so she turned it into an ugly smear campaign against him. Next up was cutting me out of her life, taking her 6 year old daughter too. My granddaughter is completely isolated! Not just from me, she doesn't see any of her family! It breaks my heart to think of that sweet child wondering where her entire family went? So i am seeking visitation through the court system. Its long, hard and costly, but will be totally worth it for my granddaughter to see her cousins, aunts and uncles who love her! Isolation is child abuse! I pray the judge sees through her lies!!
wow you sound like the narcissist here. she probably had reasons to get away from your entitled attitude, that is her daughter not yours. it's not isolation nor abusive to not see grandparents
My experience with the weaponized incompetent father is that he could never take the kids with when quickly going to the shop, but whenever the tables were turned it was expected of me.
This is why I stayed in a narcissistic marriage for so long. Everything was so subtle. Til this day nobody else sees what’s really going on. It wasn’t until I learned about narcissism that it started making sense. Thanks again for shining the light in things!
I feel your pain! I know your pain! I know so many people fired for speaking and/or acting out because of narcissist bosses. Insidious narcs in personal relationships is overwhelming. I see them now as humans corrupted by demonic activity. We normals try to see good in people while they narcs USE people and DRAIN them dry of everything. Be at peace and know there are people that commiserate with you.
Im also going through the same, nd im still confused and sometimes i feel like,am i overthinking
Same. His family was in shock when i took our son and left. He acted so caring and such a puppy outside the house... They could not wrap their heads around..
I get this.
Same here it took me 31 years I couldn’t see it but I didn’t know theses people existed my mother is one to so I never knew. Than once I did know I ‘m beaten down and old I can’t leave no help or support
It’s particularly bad when, after you’ve looked up and see yourself isolated, you also see that you’ve forgotten how to simply interact in a healthy way with healthy people-you literally forget.
I am 70. I was the scapegoat of my family since I was 4. I cannot tell you how your channel and the others on narcissism have helped me understand my life. Even though I still suffer some of the long term effects, the relief I feel in at least understanding what happened gives me some peace of mind. I pray every day for the lost and the broken, as I call us, and hope that they can heal from their wounds a lot sooner than I did. Thank you for all your help.
This channel has been my savior in so many ways. Am healing, learning how to love myself again. Even though my narc has called me all kinds of names to bring me down. I tried to reason him by asking how can you say you love someone and yet you call them a piece of s..t. I never got an explanation 😢
Yes! 58 here. I am finally awake. I noticed things so slowly and now I don’t know how to leave. He has 100% complete control.
@@kagey03call a helpline, they will know
@@kagey03 you know and he isn't aware of that.
Start planning
How is possible for you to leave ? You need money...start saving.
You need a place to stay, check out housing associations etc. Get your name on lists etc
Give yourself a 5 year plan... no rush, do it properly.
@@kagey03If you don't know how to have the divorce conversation, you can write a letter and leave it on the kitchen table for him to find after you've left. My friend did that. She never engaged in any talks about getting back together, and she never met with him alone in the beginning. They had to talk about the practical arrangements regarding the kids, but not alone. She found the strength to leave because she saw the psychological damage his narcissistic rage had on her kids. He wasn't badly physically violent, but very scary. If you fear physical violence, or worry about money, there are women's shelters you can call for advice. They can help you with paperwork for financial aid, and a safe space for you to stay. Good luck, and all the best! You deserve better than that!
The narcissist will drive a wedge into your relationships with loved ones then blame you for not being close to them like it’s a major character flaw of yours.
Yup....
Exactly this 🤯
Exactly what is happening in my family, the N codependency in our family has wedged apart each of us in really specific ways. So insidious that I never understood the mechanisms.things are starting to change and come to light now that one of the codependency has passed. The N is now working on another part of the extended family. I’m exhausted
It can also be just plain embarrassing to have friends over while they are there.
I have a friend who's friendship I treasure to this day
She continued to call to my home while my ex would be extremely sarcastic with her
She was able to greyrock & sit with me for hours as he would just ignore her & retire to bed
That same friend helped me in so many ways ie child minding my children when I broke up with my malignant narcissist
We are friends to this day & I so admired her diplomacy re not reacting to his verbal assaults
One heck of a friendship that weathered the storms of his verbal assaults & continued to support me
Your videos have been a life line for me DrRamini and I remain a faithful friend in this community
Did she understand what was going on before you did?
Ditto, Amen!
Likely she also greyrocked if he tried to sucker her into friendship with him to later cut her off and out of your life. What a wise woman and a true friend.
Mum mum has a similar friend who lived opposite us, they are still great friends now in their eighties. Our father never set foot in that house, it was our safe zone
Whenever my mom would say “it’s okay, you can tell me. You can be honest with me. I won’t freak out”… I knew it was a trap but that didn’t stop me from feeling at the time like I could open up and be honest. I always stepped in it because I wanted to believe it would be okay.
Ohh yes. This one 💯
I totally understand that. These people make us believe that they're safe, but then they weaponise it.
Wow my mother often gossips with me about people and then when I give my opinion she says “are you jealous of her also because you’re such a loser?”. I said why do you start the conversation I call it “leading the witness”.
My narc mother brings up things I did or said when I was 4. I'm 70 now.
@@kathleenferguson3296 Ugh! I’m so sorry
My narc family isolated me from everyone close to me. I started to enjoy the solitude and ignored them. They didn't plan on that. Make them lose control over you
Be careful of people who don’t respect boundaries or your privacy
One thing I’ve learned over the years is better alone than in bad company. I just don’t have the patience for toxicity after a long time
Yes. They love to snoop & will go through your stuff every chance they get. This is so weird & foreign to me because I have never been so inclined.
@@Anne-pk8gsit get better 🥰💝
That “disapproval hanging in the air” was a constant from my Dad in my teens: My clothes, my hairstyle, my favourite music, my interests, the things I valued or wanted - I never got to be myself without a subtle sense of disapproval.
I totally relate, except it was my mother who could never be pleased. My father was about unconditional acceptance, which I think is the only way he could have tolerated my mother, and saved my sanity from a worse fate.
Hearin u ❤
Isn't it crazy that if you had a narc parent, you're more likely to end up with a narc partner, especially if you are unaware about narcissm.
Yes because it’s our parents, like how are they the initial most dangerous people in our lives. But no because they are our first groomers. For the first 16, 17 or 18 years of your life, depending on when you left home, you are being groomed to be palatable for predators bc you had to be palatable for your own first caretakers.
@@mercedesharrison5550exactly.
Or many narc relationships. It was an absolute pattern for me. Uugh
You can either endure the pain of no contact or the pain of abuse. You will be in pain either way. So choose which form of suffering you can withstand.
❤
Love this! This should be said wayy more! I’m going to do no contact completely with my narcissistic brother, father, and paternal grandparents, and my whole paternal family because they are all narcissistic I think. I will carry on socialising only through important occasions like birthdays, mother’s/ Father’s Day/ Boxing Day etc because it keeps me safer that way to “hide in plain sight” so they don’t know I know that I hate them all. At least seeing them a few times a year is the price to pay for a life of happiness on the other days. I can accept that. 🥰💝
Yep. It becomes easier to just not maintain friendships. The narc will find all kinds of ways to punish you for spending time with anyone but them. This happened to me exactly like you describe in this video
Yes! So sorry this happened to you also. They will demonize your friends, family and even your hobbies or taste in food, music....It's about control, and the narc is addicted to it. 😢
Narcissists live in their own reality and they will try and make you live in their world and make you see reality from their perspective. Even when you have the facts to prove your points they will distort everything make you look like the one in the wrong. This is why it is impossible to reason with them.
Makes so much sense. All the time I wasted trying to reason with him. It was literally at time like talking to a wall.
They are delusional and pathological liars, for them it's completely natural and shameless to presuad you and tell you, your memory is fault...
I couldn't agree with you more. Now that I know what I am dealing with I can see what happened in the past. The distortion or flat out deceit is amazingly unsettling! I am not overstating this either, especially when you have undeniable facts.
JL15545, you’re right on! They victimized, deny, and pass the blame on their victims, trying to make the victims look like they’re the bad guys, instead of the perpetrators. The sad thing is, when your moral support start listening to the abusers gaslighting!
That was a watershed moment for me. Realising they truly live on another planet. Can't be reasoned with in a meaningful way.
Not only your support network, but they will shrink your entire world bit by bit until it is just revolving around them
This kind of behavior alienates people from their true friends
Coercive control is powerful. Thank you for giving examples to clarify and educate people about how it looks in real life.
Narcissistic parents do this to their children, too. Every time the kid has a friend, they gas light in this covert way. Then they claim that the child was the one who no longer wanted to socialize (when maybe the child wanted to simply escape narcissistic abuse as penalty for trying to make friends.) The children can grow up socially stunted because of it.
Not only with friends but also with other members of the family
This resonates deeply with me. My ex did this to me for forty years untilmI got out 3 yrs ago. Isolated me from my family for the last 15 years.one of His favourite things was saying "everytime your family ring up I have to put up with you for weeks". When they stopped contacting me I was convinced they didn't want to know me. Only after I left him and restablished contact did I find out he destroyed letters, cards, didn't tell me about visits or phone calls. It devastated me. Did may many other horrible things, killed my pets, destroyed and sold my possessions, stalked me etc etc. But the worst was the gaslighting, rage and lies. What's worse is that our four adult children have been convinced that I am the villain. The abuse was so bad I had to move very far away to be safe. Truly evil 😈
Dear Debbie alot of what u've described I to have been through having adult children turned against their mother is heart breaking yet just remember our children adults or not don't truly know what is really going on. Best we can do is tell them we will always Love them always here for them. 💠
Thankyou. I am sorry that you also have experienced it. It is heartbreaking. Unfortunately my children have taken on the roles of flying monkeys and actively joined in. Even trying along with him to cheat me out of the settlement. It is still ongoing. He has kept court action going for 3 years as it is his only means of control. Even a DVO he flouted. I will never understand how they can accept that torturing and killing my pets is acceptable. And they did see a lot of things as I stayed with them on occasions when he was so bad. Yet now they deny anything happened. Go figure. I am glad I am away from it all now. Peace and happiness to you for Xmas and the year ahead ❤❤
So proud of you. Bless your heart . 💜
Debbie, we have the same heartbreaking story. My ex was so good at shaping the smear campaign, that the kids are on on it. They now remember his twisted version of history. I taped him when he tried to make me crazy by revising versions of history, so I KNOW the truth. But losing your children and grandchildren is HEARTBREAKING. I don't know how you are managing your grief, but would love any insights for coping. Godspeed in your healing journey.
I am sorry for your pain and loss. Same happened to me. my 2 adult children hate me even though he is the abuser, was to them also (but he is rich). My oldest is married and now pregnant. I was not invited to the wedding and am not invited to be part of my grandchild's life.
I would rather not be in my grand child's life if my daughter will use her child as a pawn to pull my heart strings and manipulate/control me with (she has been manipulative and hurtful to me before and has not talked with me about it - as though she feels entitled to cause me pain).
My grandchild deserves better, so if I am not around (not invited to be anyway) then maybe my grand child wont see her mother's narcissism. At least not on account of me. Radical acceptance and learning to trust my Creator with what I had wanted my life to be like helped me drop the rope and carry on. You are a survivor, you are inspiring!!!
This reminds me of the frog in the pot getting the slow boil death.
Narcissists in my life talked like mob bosses. They wormed their way into my brain and tried their best at mind control. My mom has passed on and I divorced my husband long ago.
I’m 72 and still learning how much damage they did.
This is the sort of thing my mother was incredible at. So sly and conniving. She could NOT countenance any friendship or mentoring or hint of happiness. Spider-like, she’d carefully go about destroying anything that was good or healthy or helpful.
Yes! …”They aren’t your friends. They are only acquaintances. You don’t have real friends, otherwise you’d invite them over”. (Let the doubt set in!)
I love how you explain this dr.ramani. i would always get tangled when trying to explain this to others. Thank you so much for what you do ❤
I know a narcissist who has completely brainwashed his wife. She’s isolated, 100% of time and energy on kids and him. Yet, she’s convinced that this is the best for her. She stopped fighting, and completely defends him. I feel sorry for her. She’s insanely tired and drained, but also in denial of her reality. She has been completely consumed whole.
story of my mom. So sad.
I have seen this with family. Most likely she:
1. Has professional or financial PTSD and fear
2. Is also a covert or vulnerable narcissist and wants a come up off of him.
This is me 😢
Covert narcissists, at least those around me, try to paint a picture that we don't know what we are talking about. What they fail to mention is that they have been unavailable, or playing games. They want complete control, meanwhile they have no idea what my job entails.
This is how a covert isolates you from your life! Been there. Never going there again!
The solution is trust YOURSELF!
This was my life. I worked to include her in my social circle and she alienated every person I cared about one at a time. I was so stupid. She convinced me that she was the only one who cared about me and that because of a long list of faults, no one else ever would. After all, x thing I confided in her proves no one would ever want someone like me. She took everything I had and when she finally left, she took our newborn son as the coup de grace. I just wanted to be loved and she made me believe it was possible. You don't realize what you're losing until it's too late
Another factor in beginning to avoid friends, for me, was the shame of having nothing much good to say about my life, I could only sustain a jolly conversation about how we all were and what we were doing by being very selective about the truth, and doing that felt wrong, causing me even more shame. I also thought that if I tried to explain things which had been happening they wouldn't believe me anyway, but to be honest I never really tried. It got to a point where communication with my old friends was often just too awkward for me to cope with, through no fault of theirs. This all began happening years before I realised that my husband was a covert narcissist. I was a gaslighted mess who thought the whole family's problems wer all my own fault. I am divorced now, and amazingly two of my friends are still getting in touch from time to time and I hope I might be able to make amends, but I lost so much time. And I still don't know how or whether to talk to them about why.
This is such a trend of them isolating you.
Thank you. Exactly the same here.
This! All. Of. This.
This is pure gold, Dr. Ramani. Perfectly describes my married life. I am so alone, isolated, guilty, ashamed, abused. Thank you so much for what you do. You've probably saved my life. Still hanging in there. I am healing. Every day is a struggle.
I hope you are able to leave your marriage. You will continue to grow your strength
Same❤
I have broken, no contact. This is my own fault. I must hold distance again its painful.
Or, it's their inflicted damage on you and you're doing your best. Keep going. 🙂
@@timothydraper6626 Thanks i must moving forward 🙏
Most of us do it. They make it really hard to maintain a distance sometimes. Sending positive energy your way!
@@KSpirit54 Thank you! i must let go it will never change ❤️🍀🙏
YES!!! My mother did this all the time with me and my siblings AND our relationships with our cousins. we were so isolated...
Locked within a sphere of deep emotional and possibly even mental issues, how can narcissists yet be so cunning and strategic? It's almost like they tap into someone or something that trains and coaches them in how to devise and plan the takeover and take-down of their target. How do they gain the knowledge of becoming weaponized like that?
Also, it seems to me that even when they come from different backgrounds and various areas of the country or the world, their strategies and tactics are the same! Again, it seems like they are all part of the same "militia" and coached by the same system and commanding officers.
I would really like your thoughts on this, Dr. Ramani. Thank you!
Oh God. Dr. Ramani!! You cleared my fog. I was so confused. He never said not to visit my parents. But insidiously criticized me and disapproved my visits through becoming silent or angry indirectly on other things.....
I just realized something. I don't communicate with my older siblings, going on 10 plus years. I believe my father to be narcissistic, and my older siblings never did much to stay in contact, but from their abusive behavior I decided to strictly stay away. I remember now... growing up, my father would speak negatively about everyone, my siblings and aunts and uncles, neighbors...everyone. One year I tried to get in touch with an aunt, someone I hadn't seen since pretty much childhood, she didn't want to visit at all. The "isolation" kind of makes more since now. I also wondered why I rarely saw my grandmother growing up, only twice a year maybe, yet as I got older, I realized she actually lived pretty close by.
Remember they are probably protecting themselves by their actions. Proceed carefully and cautiously if that’s your intent. Acknowledge them and the pain they must have felt. Peace!
i get every word of this!
I have been in the same situation. Starting with a “Mommy Dearest” drunk mother, with an awful childhood. Every time our family got together they were drinking to get drunk, I have a Margarita or two a year. My two siblings haven’t had anything to do with me since our mother passed 18 years now. My two aunts don’t ever call me and the last time I talked to the one that was around me as a child told me that she doesn’t like to talk on the phone.
Looking back I was the one that called everyone to see how they were doing. My phone doesn’t ring unless it’s my narcissistic husband checking up on me. I can count on one hand in 20 years how many times my aunt’s has called me. Isolation is his game for 40 years now. Last year I found these channels on narcissism and now know that I have had many narcissistic people in my life. I find myself at the store talking to strangers just to feel alive.
@@cyndim8785I’m the same as you. My whole paternal family including dad and older brother are narcissistic. My paternal grandparents are the most evil abusive narcissists I’ve ever met and have destroyed all of their children and grandchildren in some way. They had 5 children and those children had 1-3 babies so you can imagine the sheer scale of this three generation wide familial perpetual abuse cycle that’s finally ended with my empath mother and me saying no more to it all💝
I was upset the most about my older brother, he’s never been there for me emotionally, always trying to overshadow me when I’m in pain (for example I had a surgery once to remove a tumour and he tried to eclipse me in front of my mother by saying he had a bad flu or man flu or a flu of some kind I can’t remember what kind of flu it was but anyway he said he had a flu to garner attention for himself instead of letting me be the one on the hurt platform.. truly heartbreaking stuff. He also caused a rift a few Christmases ago by arguing with me just before Christmas. He destroyed Christmas for me and it’s completely broken our relationship, and I want nothing more to do with him now.
My ex-husband was a pro at this. Grima Wormtongue in the flesh, he was.
It was a weird dynamic because I encouraged him to have friends and spend time with them, but he put down the few friends I had remaining until I had no friends and was completely isolated.
God, what a demon he was.
Thanks, Dr Ramani!
My ex tried to tell me I'm autistic. She insisted over and over and she might have even made her own reality where it's true. Now I know that she just wanted to isolate me from people bu making me think I dont "get it." She lied about other peoples perceptions of me. Now I realize she was just jealous of how authentic, talented, smart, engaging, hot, and bodacious I am. Sayonara.
Edit: no stigma no judging humans with those conditions, the lying is the problem not the condition.
My narc parent did the same, such a malicious tactic. Glad you didn't let it get you down.
My ex tried to convince me I was bipolar over and over because I would react to his abuse but was too afraid to leave. You are righr, they are jealous of our ability to be authentic. I am glad you got out :)
@@christinalewis6355 Took a while but I'm glad too. Glad you're free as well! ✌️
So similar! Growing up I genuinely thought I was likely to be bipolar too from hearing the same accusations over & over again and the anger & sadness I would feel in response. @@christinalewis6355 Turns out I’m not even related to the seriously mentally ill people in the family the narcs kept telling me I was just like.
@@Eliane-pf5nb It is insane! But never again. I like people that try to verify reality and help, not confuse reality and manipulate. I've learned how to honor myself and I can smell nonsense coming from a mile away now!
its always luckier to be the scapegoat than turning into the narc itself
This resulted in me either losing friends or acquaintances. Confusion, isolation, loneliness and depression resulted. I even stopped playing golf for 10 years after I had bought new golf clubs. I used to say, if only I had recorded our conversations and played it back. I just never had the energy or time. She sucked me dry on every front. Energy vampires do that.
I can totally relate to the grief that comes once you realize you bought into the negative spin the narcissistic person casts upon people around you that could've been deep lasting friendships...
Ugh, yes, the grief was real. I realized I had bought into the warped reality they painted. Recognizing the lie was first, then the rest of the stages of grief. It manifested as I slept often for days in a depressive state to cope… This is all too real..
It's really sad when a person is made to feel so small in their lives, that the only way they can lift themselves up is by shitting all over the very things that are good and normal.
Yes, they plant seeds of doubt about anyone that comes close to us. If we dont listen and continue to have friendships, then they will start outright abusing them in front of us, even thought they know friends are important to us. We will be left with friends who are admirers/puppets/flying monkeys of the narcissist.
Yep, the same thing happened to me: My friend’s narc spouse would always be present at our meetings. First she tried to win me over. It didn’t work out, so she abused me in front of him. At some point I couldn’t stand it anymore and stood up for myself - that’s when she made him gaslight and discard me. I can only imagine the seeds she must have planted during the devaluation phase.
My ex, a middle sister, would bad mouth the youngest sister. Family gatherings would be as awkward as you might imagine when the eldest daughter and my ex would start in about how terrible the baby of the family is. It is very uncomfortable to be a guest in a house where character assassination goes on regularly. and to be told it is normal.
I went through this with my ex's family. Not only did the siblings trash each other but their mother did the same about any of her children that weren't present. It was very unsettling to watch a mother behave this way. When I left my husband his mother told me I deserved his verbal abuse. No one deserves that. Ever.
You just know, eventually, its your name they pass around@@elliedaniels2245
The mother was screwed up and screwed up her own children.... Hope they get therap6and break the cycle, and never pass this horrible behaviour to the next generation.
@@elliedaniels2245 That is exactly how my family operates but to them it's not disrespect and character assassination, that is how families treat each other according to their reality. My parents also behave like that but it's ok because they do not have to follow any social rules.
@@allefranz9031 The fact that you grew up that way yet still recognize that it's not how family should operate speaks volumes about your character and your ability to rise above what has been instilled in you. I wish everyone had your wisdom as the world would be a better place.
yes, very good point, the protective screening of friends from "our narcissists" inadvertently isolates us more from healthier relationships!
"i never asked you to do that."
Intelligence is always appreciated Doctor Ramani, especially while narcissists and thugs are in your life.
Grew up with a narcissist parent, but listening to this reminds me of my ex husband...The more I learn, the more it seems he had these qualities too, especially what you describe here.
This is my family to a tee. We never had people over. I have a super narcissistic sibling that had a falling out with my best friend growing up; after they stopped being friends, I had made plans with my friend, and was violently lunged at and went to work with a swollen black eye for the next week. My coworkers asked what happened and I made up that I had pink eye, but I could tell they knew I was lying. I never knew how to tell anyone else. Years later, my sibling “apologized” to me by saying that she had no other choice at the time and she just wanted the abuse to stop. The “abuse” was me being friends with her ex-friend.
I am the "reason" he hasn't any friends. How can I go out for dinner without him, he's 66, what will he eat? This is such an important aspect of narcissism, nothing anyone else can understand.
My mother would pit my sister and I against each other as well as other family members. (My son against me and my husband, my sister and her children, my auntie against ……you get the idea) I think it was a sick game Mum enjoyed playing and watching the show from the side. BUT she would do it in such a way that she wouldn’t get blamed for it. “I never said that” was one of her fav lines. And she’d be right. He way of pitting us agains each other was so subtle and underhanded that you got lulled into thinking that the other person was against you or said something when they didn’t .
Thank you for this reminder that some of their manipulations are so insidious. I have been struggling due to that fact. It’s like there is all this fallout but if someone were to ask for examples of how the manipulation / gaslighting took place I would not have an exact answer. I believe this happened with my children too. The bad treatment is there, I am learning of things I never knew, ie secrets. There is still so much that no one is saying and it DOES leave one feeling like their thinking/memory must be skewed. However, as you state in your gaslighting course, I am one of the people who still feels like I have to write things down; that I need proof. I am trying to remind myself that this would not happen in a healthy relationship. Thanks again Dr. Ramani!
I too thought about writing down all of the bad things that had happened to me as evidence but I didn't want to keep reminding myself of the terrible things that I went through. So, I stayed and nursed myself until I landed on this channel. Am so grateful to Dr. Ramani. Thank you ❤
Thank you. My mother does this… I have boundaries with her, but she has been asking me to visit her in the past two weeks and assist with matters she says are serious. I make the time. I appear. The short story is that she did not need me, she just wanted me to show up. On my way out she says “by the way… (insert narcissistic/manipulative comment here).
Next time. Just say oh by BTW careful you become the boy who cried wolf.
Stop playing in her game. Just don't show up.
😮…🤯…OMG he did this so often! I love discovering buried red flags.
This started early for me. She would chip away at everyone who could have any influence in my life at all. First my parents, then my brother, every friend, coworkers…until it’s just me, alone, exactly one arms length away from anyone who could help me see what was happening…then my eyes opened 4 years ago. It was like being let out of a dungeon. I’m still here, but now I trust my own assessments of people. I realized that she has literally NEVER met anyone good enough. Well, I’ll settle for being as good as all the nice people we know.
Absolutely spot on, as always. This is one of the most difficult elements to comprehend in narcissistic relationships. The slow erosion, hour by hour, day by day. Both my mother and my ex used this tactic to establish isolation but as if it was my choice. With my mother, the impact was more profound because I never had a chance to develop my self, personality etc. Any sign of that happening and my mother would quickly act in this manner, as if to isolate me from myself.
O.M.G. That man did exactly this. Every single person I became close to. He even told me my one friend hates me. With my other friend, who liked taking photos, he’d say “ugh, what an ugly woman”. She’s beautiful, by the way. Always some abrasive comment.
This video is soooo spot on. He even did this with my family…
Wow. So glad I’m out of it now.
OMG, this is soooo true. I do recognize this pattern from my childhood - growing up with a narcissistic father and both grandmothers (mother was too traumatized), we hardly ever had any guests at home. I only remember my mom having a couple of friends over before I started school. This was never approved by my father and he would do EXACTLY THIS every time. Eventually, my mom had no friends at all and I only got to have playmates beyond kindergarten or school a couple of times during my ENTIRE CHILDHOOD. Of course, it affected my connections later in life and I've always felt lonely and jealous of people who would talk about their "childhood friends" - I only started forming proper friendships at high-school.
When my parents finally divorced (ofc father had to make it as messy and painful for both of us as possible, I was a teenager then) my mom went all in getting back in touch with her youth girlfriends and also having friends from work over, and I just stayed alone at home or was forced to stay in one of the rooms in our apartment and keep studying while they were chit-chatting and having fun till late at night. I wonder if this consistent feeling of loneliness contributed to my fear of abandonment I have to deal with now.
Narcissists are cruel because they make sure to rob you of all the joy they can take away, and the effects are so long lasting.
My narc claimed that I “had a thing” for a certain professor I referred to occasionally. When I firmly disagreed he calmly with a smirk said, “oh yes you do, I can tell”. He had never met this professor nor had I taken a course with him. We were both members of a seniors centre and regularly worked together. I respected the man like everyone else who knew him. He had contributed greatly to the community. Narc prided himself on his ability to read people so since he thought that it MUST be true.
O my goodness! You have completely described my last 42 years with my vulnerable, covert narc husband! Up until covid, we were not stuck so closely inside, so I was never able to get anything to confirm my suspicions that he was 'sewing seeds of doubt' about me behind my back. Then his drinking increased and so did the level of his voice while on the phone. That's when I started hearing him talking about me in such a manner that would lead the listener to have doubts about my spiritual integrity. When I confronted him, he said he wouldn't do it anymore. Until the next time he did it.
For years I had to listen to him talking about others in our congregation, doing his best to sew seeds of doubt about them to me. And for years I defended them. Now that I have finally separated from him, I am finding so much peace and joy. I still have to interact with him due to circumstances, but it's tolerable. Thank you so much for this video. I finally feel vindicated!
Each and every time I watch one of this videos, my jaw drops to the floor, because of the 110% accuracy in the wording and the people they do this to.... Wow!
I have seen this behavior from nearly everyone given enough time. I dont see it in my wife and that makes me happy.
Oh yes, this is exactly what happened to me, only that I was the “weird” friend who could not be trusted - especially after I saw what was happening in their relationship. You can either be an enabler or the enemy - there is nothing in between for narcissists.
My friend’s covert narc spouse was always present at our meetings, and would always more or less subtly devalue me. At some point I couldn’t ignore it anymore, stood up for myself and was discarded immediately because “I broke his trust by trying to come in between them”. I can only imagine the seeds that were planted during the devaluation phase.
Another hallmark of people for whom their narcissistic tendencies are their overriding relationship approach, black and white thinking where you are either on their team or the villain.
Yep. He did do this. Every person I got along well with, he bad mouthed. He didn't tell me to stop talking to them, but he made it seem like there was something wrong in me wanting to talk to them... Much later on, when I had realized I was in a toxic mess and sought to pull away from him, he threw a barrage of insults at me. He shamed me for "not having friends". Crazy, crazy, crazy creatures they are... Smdh.
My last week married to LUCI..(fer), She was starting to suggest board games for just the two of us so we could be together more time.
Amazing!!
Here is a 46... the more I listen to your messages, I say to myself, How is this possible?...
How come no one shares this information?...
The world needs to know the damage a narc causes to the soul.
Thank you very much Dr. Ramani.
Many blessings for all the information you share…
I'm a survivor
Thanks for opening ours 👁️
think about it why the world cant know. they need to know the other side not your side
Workplace narcissistic people and boss are also harmful. I hope Dr Ramani can teach some strategies of how to deal with narcissistic boss and coworkers. Thank you Dr Ramani.
I lived through a 20 yr relationship like this and after 10 yrs of recovery, I found myself in another.
I don’t know if anyone has the ability to spot these monster up front.
My recent ex hated me going to a weekly meetup with friends to the point he tried to control my going with the “do we have the money for that?” or “we don’t have gas money for that” and so on, controlling me by making me feel as if spending a couple bucks in gas and eating a small meal with friends once a week was breaking the bank. It worked for a while, until I found you and realized he might have been a covert narcissist.
This video just unlocked some more realities i didnt notice. My ex who I stayed friends with would ask me why I thought this other girl was a friend, my decisions to pull away from this friend were heavily influenced by her and I didn't realize it at the time. Me ex was angry that I went to a meet up with people from our school who she had determined were not good people. By the end of grad school, I left with only her as a friend while she had her group and so on. I decided the no contact after she ghosted me and kept breadcrumbing me... and then i broke it when she reached out... she took space and used my abusive sister as justification for why she couldn't talk to me. I found it weird that she was comparing herself to someone she knew was verbally and emotionally abusive. After so long, I see her for what she shows me and that's that she grew resentful and contemptuous because I stopped letting her control me. I didn't realize this was what was happening at the time. I just know I was always anxious, and tired. Constantly dismissed to the point I believed I was the main problem. I started therapy, and unlearned things that I thought were noble, multiple chances, and no boundaries... its been a journey but I've learned so much about myself ever since she got angry at me for trying to hold her accountable.
This is long-winded. Healing is weird, I'm much better but I still get hit with this sadness. It's weird not having this person in my life anymore. I just have to keep it moving, so far I've been alright.
This is FACTS!!! You don't even recognize what's going on, til you look up and realize that it's just you and the abuser- exactly how they want it. Power and control is sometimes subtle
My narcissistic ex would have waited for me to lose contact with "Mary," then go on and have an affair with her.
Yeap my ex.
My "mother" was queen of this technique in my youth. I've been wondering of late if that was why my friendships with both genders always fizzled for reasons I can't even remember.
I know my mom badmouthed me to others and that the other mothers didn’t like her “mask” that she wore in public (comes off as very insincere, fake, and judgy). That is why my friends dropped off.
My friends and family didn’t just behave oddly, they apparently also thought I was insane. Not wanting the drama, I withdrew from all personal interactions except the most civil and basic, until it dawned on me that I was completely alone except for him, our children and a few of his family, although he rarely let me visit the latter. When I brought this up - carefully, of course - he promptly told me that it was my decision to isolate myself but, despite my terrible personality and ongoing Alzheimer’s, he’s a hero for still putting up with me…
PS: I don’t have Alzheimer’s.
I have done this. Now, since i see it, i feel terrible that i let my best friend go. At the time, i didn't even realize it was manipulation. Now, my best friend and i found our way back to eachother. I am out of my marriage and being able to talk to her helped me face what i needed to do. If i had kept close relationships outside of my marriage i fully believe i would have gotten out sooner.
They criticize and complain so much every time you interact with your friends or family members that you stop contacting those friends and family members.
Yes Dr Ramani 💕they take care of themselves and they keep you isolated! Abused! and confused!
It’s disgusting!🙏❤️❤️❤️
Towards the end of my friendship with my narc, she became desperate and her actions obvious. During any conversation with a stranger, maybe talking about an upcoming event, she would but in saying to them “She’s disabled you know”. I’d angrily ask her why she just blurted that out with no relevance. (It was obvious she was trying to put people off talking to me.) She’d reply with “But it’s true, you are disabled”. Me: “That’s not the point”. Her: “Oh, so you’re ashamed of your disability”……and from there it would go round in circles.
My ex is currently on a smear campaign because I went no contact...I doubted her diagnosis at times but now I'm sure she's a full blown covert victim narc
Don’t worry about the diagnosis. We can get trapped into this thinking which keeps us in limbo and if she is an ex, it doesn’t matter to your new life. I got stuck in ruminating, well X does this but not that. X was able to express empathy but not always. X was transactional but also has anxiety. I gave up trying to diagnose and instead focused on the patterns I saw. Do they seem healthy, i.e. they can express feelings in a constructive way and problems are something to be solved, or do they act like you are either the villain to their main character or like they are miserable because the world is out to get them, i.e. if you just hadn’t done this, my life would be better? Do they lash out for trivial stuff and can you predict exactly what situations cause them to lash out? Then, it’s just a matter of working on you. Recalibrating your sense of self, boundaries and joy and moving on without another thought for them (much harder done than said).
Thank you for sharing about this. My biggest narc does garbage like this. In college, I was effectively forbidden from moving out on my own, though I earned a scholarship and would have paid for my own apartment. My scholarship covered the private school tuition. Then my sister went to school. They paid for her school, and they got her an off-campus apartment that they also paid for. Sheer ugliness, and the hurt will never leave.
I had another big narc in my life. One day I went to the zoo as a sponsor with a group of loud 5th graders. I hated it, and I wanted to go back and enjoy the zoo alone. That narcissist said, "But you were just there." The dynamic was such that I was essentially forbidden from returning. "But I never told you not to go," would certainly have been the response. The narc did that to a friendship, too, leading me to lose contact for years with an old friend. Dangerous damaging people...watch out for them.
Dr. Ramani, Your insight into this topic is...Eerie actually in terms of accuracy. Thank you so much for your analysis on this. It's very thought provoking. So much to consider when navigating this world...
I actually feel like I'm the 1 that did this to my toxic ex. But I was able to see the red flags in his friends, just not the red flags from him. But we caused each other to be isolated from previous friends, which is why I say we were mutually toxic for each other. The difference is that I've become kinder and healthier since we split, and my friends have accepted me back with love.
Is it a common thing too for the narcissist to talk while you're on the phone with someone? I had one that did that. He'd comment on what was being said or go and ask me unrelated questions (asking things like: where did you put this or that? when are you going to the grocery store? etc.) and also sit in the room with an angry face, making me not feel comfortable making phone calls, like calling friends or family (he didn't like anybody, of course). This was before we all had mobile phones, it's a while ago but this video reminded me of that.
You have so many Informative lessons on many things . I will watch some of them tomorrow. Merry Christmas to You and Your Family.
I've kept my friends from my family in part to protect them but also so they don't judge me by my family. You've probably covered this before but narcissists calling you 'defensive' when you are 'on' to them. By that I mean you have seen the red flag that something is coming and really do prepare your defenses be it grey-rocking or not going DEEP - whatever the strategy - and they try and gaslight you into questioning judgement so they can tear you down and leave you in a blubbering mess. Had that one at work recently. When these people are controlling you performance evaluation, are your referee or are highly influential in your career progression, if they set you in their sights on you they will tear you down if not directly then indirectly and it all starts with 'you're defensive' or 'you're too intense'.
Thank you from all my heart, Dr Ramani. So immensely helpful. Your clarity every time shines a light into the darkness and the doors that finally lead to finding the self become visible.
Ahh the word games of manipulation. How they control people! The stress it causes. I grew up never bringing friends to the house and so embarrassed by the cruelty. So very painful.
"planting seeds" So MANY seeds. Subtle, insidious, destructive seeds. Like an invasive species of plant that destroys the environment very quickly without making a single sound. Great episode!
I was laughing so hard! These scenarios are the recipe for great T.V. Or Netflix dramas. Sick pathology. Ramani should write a sort of “Bernstein Bear” child’s books for these IMMATURE adults!!! They would be GREAT!!
My husband has never told me to do or not do anything but I always know when I made the wrong decision by how he treats me afterwards. I rarely leave the house anymore and have so much anxiety, guilt and shame that on most days I cry on and off without knowing exactly why. If i try to talk about it he gets extremely defensive so i end up apologizing for upsetting him. I used to be able to handle things but now I just feel hopeless and worthless. Logically i know I'm worthy but my inner voice screams that Im getting what I deserve. Im at the point where I just cant fight anymore
They are so cautious with the wording they use and the things they say, carefully proof reading everything and ensuring it's not too direct and can easily be excused or dismissed at a later date should someone ever refer back to it.
They imply but never instruct!
This is exactly what my husband tried to do. But i ignored him and it made him pissed off so much 😂. When i left i said that your videos helped me to get away from him, he still blames you for "ruining people's lives", and tries to convince me that i actually want to be with him and it is actually the outside world who has bad influence on me - my friends, my family, dr. RAMANI... Hahahahaha..... Thanks God im OUT! and most importantly - my son is not exposed to daily emotional abuse towards his mum and himself. What a total screwed up jerk that person is... Sick person.
all your recoveries are horrible and the same demon. youre all nasty. this was a connfuing gaslighting trap with ai too?
You listen to them because everyone things this is normal and marriage is wonderful
This is how parental (or grandparental) alienation works too. And how is a child able to fight it? Or even get it? I remember a German TV movie on the topic where the mother gave the daughter a cellphone so that she could be in touch with the divorced Dad (shared custody). Only she made sure the number was blocked. So the kid called and called, but the Dad never picked up. And the mother had a reason to say: "See, Dad is not interested in you, so why are you still trying?" So devious it makes your blood curl. And not subtle at all. Very well explained in this video, so many examples come to mind, unfortunately...
the first example about Mary is what I came to know as “third partying”. I learned this in Scientology and “third partying“ is not exclusively a narcissistic ploy. It happens all the time to anyone.
During the 12 years with Mr. Narcissist, I lost a lot of friends; a couple of my closest friends have reminded me that I never introduced them to Mr. Wonderful but they have thank goodness stood by me after he dumped me. I feel so guilty for cutting these friends out of my life to spend more time with him. I am trying to mend fences now but it's hard...
Brilliant. We are a community of isolated people who need to understand how it happened.
I’m on the right path now. They really did everything… it’s as though they studied how to hurt people
That "kernel of truth" is the foundation of the doubt, criticism and undercutting of people in your life or interests you may have.
OMG!! She did this with over a handful of people. The isolation became complete...
I am in the fight of my life over this very thing! My narc daughter started out with little comments saying my husband was weird (he is her step dad). Anything to try to get between us! It didn't work, so she turned it into an ugly smear campaign against him. Next up was cutting me out of her life, taking her 6 year old daughter too. My granddaughter is completely isolated! Not just from me, she doesn't see any of her family! It breaks my heart to think of that sweet child wondering where her entire family went? So i am seeking visitation through the court system. Its long, hard and costly, but will be totally worth it for my granddaughter to see her cousins, aunts and uncles who love her! Isolation is child abuse! I pray the judge sees through her lies!!
wow you sound like the narcissist here. she probably had reasons to get away from your entitled attitude, that is her daughter not yours. it's not isolation nor abusive to not see grandparents
My experience with the weaponized incompetent father is that he could never take the kids with when quickly going to the shop, but whenever the tables were turned it was expected of me.