CHEAP, E-BAY CAD BLOWER + LS ADAPTERS-PUMP GAS vs E85 (pt2)
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- čas přidán 1. 03. 2021
- E-BAY BOOSTED, JUNKYARD 4.8L-E85 vs 91 PUMP GAS (BIG GAINS?) AFTER INSTALLATION OF THE E-BAY, CADILLAC STS BLOWER PACKAGE (WITH ATW INTERCOOLER) USING MACKDADDYPARTS ADAPTERS (CHECK THEIR FACEBOOK PAGE OR 314-435-2222), WE RAN THE SUPERCHARGED, CAMMED 4.8L ON 91 PUMP GAS. WE FIRST STEPPED UP IN TB SIZE! WE THEN ADDED E-85 (NO TMING CHANGES), THEN ADDED TI
MING! CHECK OUT THE POWER GAINS FROM EACH MOD! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Richard, what we really want to see is you make a challenge to all the machinist out there, we need affordable adapters!!!
Buy a set take them to a aluminum sand casting foundry and get them to make a pattern and have them do a one day a month production run for you it'll cost you about ten grand or better to start But a moulder could make a 140 sets a day easily it wouldn't take long to make big money off selling them you just need someone to make you the pattern and cores and be able to drill and tap them I used to make the moulds for roush and Corvette superchargers these adapters would be easy to make the moulds for
@@79huddy I do some amateur, bush-league machine work. Just looking at them, they're definitely not a cast product. They're CNC ported from a billet, which is probably a huge contributing factor to the high cost of the the item.
I agree with CNC porting for the finishing, cuz it's either that or port and polish each set by hand. But they could probably make huge improvements in their manufacturing process by switching either to a cast or forged product that's about 90% complete and then several of them fixed together in the CNC mill for final machining.
The unfortunate reality, though, is that the market for this product is too small to make the capital investment worthwhile. They just won't sell enough of them, even at a lowered price point, to make their money back.
@@spaight711 dont over think things. remember when air and fuel mixed texture was needed in the intake passages and preferably the exhaust too for mixing of combustible gasses... you can flow better for cheaper with a rougher finish. even with just air textured finish flows better off an uneven surface than smooth. yes smooth can flow more due to surface area alone. but flow is only a fraction of the equation and thats many facts. rough casts have been proven hard to beat. straight facts.
Go to the 6.0 just to see if it chokes the motor out or not...🤷♂️
I see the prior video is very popular in the overall channel. Which tells me everyone wants to see cheap stuff make power, which is great.
My biggest disappointment was was finding out the adapters cost almost 3x what the blower it’s self does...
Time for someone to "cast" those things...
@@ZEPRATGERNODT something
Maybe someone can make it out of delrin or something 🤔
Stupid expensive
@@fc3sluis they are 2 plates not sure how good that would work. First plate bolts to the heads second one bolts to the first plate and then the blower bolts to the second plate.
Anyone else see the price on these blowers has doubled in the last 2 days! Thanks Richard! 😂
There is a website online selling them new for $469. Then the adaptors are $1300. Rather get an LSA.
@@puppetmasterblaster where did you find the adapter plates?
I should have purchased ALL the blowers before the video came out
@@richardholdener1727 I'm glad I got 6 of them when they were still cheap!
@@richardholdener1727 My sentiments as well.
The E85 is fascinating. Remember when he did alky injection for cooling.. it added nothing to the power and we were all screaming about adding timing. But still.. it's crazy how E85 alone added power, but alky injection as an air coolant itself didn't.
Nice towing combination; good 3,500 rpm torque with some more available if needed.
Add piston oil sprayers for cooling and the engine might survive for a long time with forged pistons & stout rods; if towing heavy and often.
Transmission & axle upgrades probably needed too.
Oh this is so awesome!!! Love to talk carb size blow through application. On the 5.3 or 6.0 do both...I have a Blueprint 383 with a 177 and couldn't get over 3lbs but it ripped, so i got a big crank pulley 7" and multiple blower pulleys, settled on a Quick Fuel 1050 against there recommendation and denial to help me tune it, ha I pulled a 11.20 last summer and with a Coan converter up grade 10.82!!! Back in the 90s I ran a 750 holly DP on a 350 non roller cam engine, no one was going to convince me of the same size with a blower. Now it is probably not as street friendly as most would like, 2 circuit carb. Also I constantly run a exhaust temp sensor which could be annoying to some BUT I believe it will make more power with a larger throttle opening, less boost on the 6.0 and suspect more power but we'll wait for you to show us that next. Great video episodes!
Thank you Mac daddy this is exactly what I've been looking for trying to supercharge my 53 on a budget
Thanks for this Richard. Also, I’m glad I bought one of these a couple of months ago before your videos liquidated the market 😉
Yeah I'm sure Mackdaddyparts.com will sell a few more of these kits now. I don't think most guys knew they made adapters for this blower. I know I found out about the blower a few years ago and I found Mackdaddyparts.com a few months ago after a lot if searching. Richard should get a little kickback if their sales explode because of this video.
The one thing that might keep them from selling a bunch of kits is the price. 3500 is getting close to an Lsa blower that would make a lot more power then the little m122
@@ziptiejedi5658 I only have the blower. The Mac daddy stuff is ridiculous on the price. But I know a guy that is finalizing his own cast aluminum adapters for half the price of Mac Daddy. So keep your eyes peeled over the next month and hold off before buying the expensive monopolized stuff.
Port, pulley, and cam....then on a 6.0 everyone can interpolate for the 5.3
Exactly
agreed
Yep give the people what they want lol. I want to see where this supercharger runs out of steam
I think you mean extrapolate.
@@boardboy95 that's what I say too. Overdrive It is Well to the Max and see what it can put out. Never know until you try and that's what's so good about Richard cuz he does just that
6.0 all the way. Max that charger out and try different pulley on it please!! Wanna see 750hp
That's pretty funny.
An M122 doesn't flow enough CFM to make 750hp
@@s2upid We will only know if he trys this. Its only 150hp more than the 4.8. 20% more hp he should easily be able to get so thats close to 720hp and then 10% overdrive on the charger and its there
750?
@@richardholdener1727 You can do it man!!
I’ve been playing with E85 for a while now in my Turbhoe, I’ve found it also seems to spool the turbo faster as well. Like a noticeable difference!
Super interesting stuff. I'd say stay with the 4.8 for now. It's just so cool to see a small cube motor turned into a giant killing package. Then move on to the bigger engines later. Love your work sir 👏
I’d love to see a pulley change ( supercharger/balancer or both ) and slapped on a 6.0L to try to max that blower out. Then maybe look into porting to see how much power is left on the table. Thanks for all the videos and knowledge! I can’t wait for m122 content!
Class is in session! Much appreciated. Lets see the 6.0 and see if there's no replacement for displacement.
I’d love to see how this would do on a lq4 with a ss2 cam and either ls3 or 799 heads on it. I would be interested to see if it is capable of feeding an engine that size, or if it will run out of steam if you start changing pulley sizes to get more airflow. Either way i’m loving this build series. Keep up the awesome work!
czcams.com/video/rYlo9CDymmg/video.htmlsi=4b1oAzkJ5iYLATlW
Take these results and split them down the middle (4.8L+6.7L)(.5)=5.7L very close to your 6.0L request
Not out of air, but also not going to make 4 digits
It's only a 122ci (2.0L blower). It's the older 3-lobe design too. These are sized to work on an engine 2-2.5x larger so a 4.0-5.0L. The Caddy was 4.4L so this makes sense. The 4.8L LS is a pretty perfect match. 5.3L will be OK but I bet that the 6.0L won't be happy. Those Laminova intercooler cores are restrictive too. Thanks Richard for all that you do. Great stuff.
Love to see it pushed to the max on a 6.0
6.0 l96 with the bigger intake valves I bet would push this combo to the 650-675 hp area.
Love this idea keep it up would be awesome to see the TB opening ported out as well as more boooost
Interesting stuff. Still seems like too much money for the power capability but will have to see the final setup and what it can do on a 5.3l or bigger.
Damn man! I love the work that you do!
I would like to see this with a 5.3 or even better a 6.0
Recently subscribed and I'm hooked Bro !!
Absolutely love your channel !!!
A ton of real information about affordable engines and combinations!!
My 03 Tahoe would be nice supercharged. I'm looking for daily driven usable power. This seems like a viable option. Looking forward to the next video !! Thanks for taking the time to share !!
Thanks for the sub!
Love these tests! This is awesome
If i could recommend a video series it would be.. 1. Optimized NA 2. Optimized supercharger 3. Optimized Turbo.. For 91-93 octane and e85. Optimize cam/af/heads+valvetrain/port/timing.. And the bonus would be intake with short/long/medium runners.
To answer a question I keep seeing and Richard even mentioned in the prior video . These are from the 4.4 NorthStar out of the sts-V. After GM canceled the car they had 1600 of these units That have been on eBay for the past few years
5.3's are the mass of the market, it would be nice to see what supercharged 5.3 would turn.
Just take everything and add an extra 10-15%
I see just as many 4.8s as 5.3s. My local yard even stocks several lq4s.
@@madmod which city are you in?
@@WelcomeToTheMadness Small town iowa
(4.8 power/4.8)*5.3= 10% more AKA close enough
We are installing the stsv charger we got from you on an LS2 using a ls3 supercharger cam and home made adapters. Planning to be at LS Fest West.
A junkyard 5.3 with a cam, springs, and this thing would be a fun motor. Crazy how the adaptors are not expensive than the blower through!
Go 6.0L, then Compound it with one or two turbos.
Keep it up Richard, good stuff👌
Id definitely would like to see this charger on a 6.0l , with the opening ported to match the throttle body.
On another note id like to see a video about Fuel Injector timing and its affects on tuning it with different overlap cams at idle to low rpms.
Been reading about negligible gains to power and torque at low rpm and getting rid of the raw gas smell while gaining better street manners from aggressive cams. Seems like having factory settings are causing raw fuel to slip on by at the overlap event.
All of the above! Please post the stock exhaust manifold vs header power graph. Thank you Richard!
Next: port the inlet side of supercharger and match the tube to the 102mm TB. (To see what that 102mm TB is really worth)
I would like to see you push the 4.8 to its limits first before changing up to more displacement.
Great video Richard,I always learn something from you!
I would like to see you try both,I wonder if it's big enough for the 6.0
Thanks man
Cool, another great video ⚡️
you should step up to a 5.3 after the smaller pulley. I love the vids i learn so much about forced induction and tuning
Since you asked, I would love to see this on an equivalent 5.3. The 6.0 would be an awesome cherry on top if you can manage 😁😁😁
I'm betting this would be a great blower for a 6.0l ls for a pump gas scenario and of course even more with more timing on e85. The port the inlet of the inlet is interesting but taking off the hat where the intercooler tubes are and porting the outlet would be interesting also ;)
Hi Richard, Loving the videos... Stoichiometric AFR for E85 is: 9.75:1, and for a >100Kpa boosted power tune you would want to be at 7.25:1 for maximum power, not 11:1 as stated.
Would love to see this fixed and tested as the results will be massively more impressive over RON91.
11.1 on the gas scale
I almost fell over when saw how much they charged for the adapters.. I mean it is CNC billet but $1400 is high
Isn't that verging on the cost of an LSA blower?
Might as well lsa swap for that much
@@jaywalkin8205 exactly what I was thanking.
Does seem it would make more sense to get good heads that match the blower than pay that much for adapters. But that’s just me. 🤷♂️
@@bradgarlington2304 If they even exist. If this blower comes off a Northstar, they're heads for a DOHC motor and should be completely different from the OHV heads an LS has.
In Oztralia our options are essentially limited to 5.7, 6.0 & 6.2 engines.
I wish we had more access to the 4.8 & 5.3, but the guys importing them are really price gouging, as they understand that these engines are boost friendly & therefore sought after.
So, for the average Fred, it's not a cost effective option (Some may disagree!), depending on your budget.
Personally, I am interested in this setup on an alloy 6.0. however, Richard, love your stuff, so, go for it!!
Good information,blowers work and look so good 😊
First thing I thought when I saw part 1 is, "why not a 5.3?" and yes to the porting of the blower inlet, throttle body and pulley swap. I think these things are natural low cost evolutionary changes that anyone would do seeking to make power with this blower.
6.0 for sure, would be interesting to see how an LS9 cam does on this blower!
I’m putting together an LY6 with LS2 pistons, gen4 rods, LSA crank, AFR enforcer heads, SS2 cam with 1.75 roller rockers, 1 7/8 headers, 10% OD balancer, I’m hoping to make 600RWHP thru a 6l90 with CTS-V converter all going in my 08 Avalanche. I’m fairly confident I’ll get there.
With this blower?
I was working on doing this same thing last summer and had some plates cnc out by tom demeuse in Michigan and was hoping to get it finalized this winter but we weren't fast enough lol. And luckily I had mine bought at the $350 price tag cause they are over $1000 to buy blowers now cause the shop makes adapters now. But Richard I hope we can continue to see use on the 4.8 just cause it's nice seeing some info on the less popular 4.8 underdog. They are cheap and very capable but honestly I'd be wondering about the port work to see how much you can gain, the cams should be self explanatory in a way, 40hp gain on cam, roughly 40+ gain on blower hp I would think 🤷 but I could be wrong. But hopefully at least play with some pulley changes and definitely see what the temperature does while over driving it. I'd also like to see just how efficient this laminova heat exchanger does with these setups, that's one more thing I was trying to learn more about as well. Thank you Rich!
Personally I would like to see the test results of everything you suggested. As you were naming the selections I was like, that's the one I'm voting for. No wait I like that one, no wait. However ported blower and more cubes(in that order) are my top two votes.
Turbo feeding the blower Richard. If you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly
Boost your boost.
Do what everyone says not to do with a PD blower and run a cam with a ridiculous amount of overlap. That 232/242 108 Crane cam you have should suffice if you have the PTV clearance.
You don't need it and it doesn't add anything down low. Pd blowers will short circuit the intake charge with that much overlap at low rpm. There is a reason why everyone runs a wider lsa cam with blowers compared to NA.
@@timothybayliss6680 exactly. That’s the theory most of us cam guys, stand by, so the majority of us never test otherwise. Now let’s see it on the dyno.
the cam that makes more low speed torque na will make it with a pd blower as well
Yes, we need supercharger bases for the factory eaton blowers that are everywhere for smaller engines like the L99 4.3, sbc 305/350 and 4.8 LS! If I was schooled in cnc and engineering Id be all over it!
YES...to ll oof it !!!....and thank you for running the accessories while on the dyno......makes it more realistic.....im guessing the AC is too much !!???
6.0, 706 heads, BTR stage 2 turbo cam or Patrick G cam 223/231, 610/617, 110+4. 91 octane and e85. Start at 7lbs boost. Then bolt up the Ebay special turbo or the 7875 to compare boost efficiency. Then do it all again on a set of LS3 heads.
sounds like someone's engine program
Try the 5.3 next. It's more common and realistic for most of us that may emulate it. Plus it will build suspense for when you inevitably try it on the larger ones.
Party-boy music and boost! That's all you need
I'd like to see it on a 6.0l. I didn't realize that e85 was that good.
The blower was originally on a 4.4 l Northstar, so the 4.8 isn't much larger, so I'd like to see you try it on the 5.3, port the inlet, then try different pulleys to see if the blower can support the displacement.
Id love to see this against the lsa. You should hit up some of the lsa guys to see if they would send you one to test. I bet the lsa makes more power, and the all in price is close IMO
Rich. PLEASE run this on a 6.0!or 6.2. I have been planning this combo on a 6.0 w a comp cam 459. I really desire rec port heads. Great job by the way. You are my favorite tech guy in you tube.
Good see this kind of comparison. Here in Oregon all we got is 91! :/
It would be interesting to see what it would do on a 5.3
Yeah I would like to see how much power it makes on a 5.3 or even a 6.0. I'm almost positive it would be to small for a 6.0 especially if it had a decent cam and heads.
It almost depends on how fast the blower spins. If the blower is spinning the same speed, a bigger engine can make a little more because the tune can be a little more aggressive and boost will be lower and the blower will eat less power. It wouldnt be terribly different though
652hp
This is a 122. Over spin this thing and it's just blowing hot air. A 6.0 is pushing this blower. The 5.3 and 4.8 are a better engine size
@@EGGINFOOLS yeah thats kinda what I was thinking. It would be good for a 4.8 and 5.3 but it be a bit to small for the 6.0. It would be like putting an eaton m90 on a 4.8.
Inspired by these videos, I went poking around on eBay to see what sort of cash outlay it would take to put one of these combinations together. After viewing the prices, I nearly gagged myself to death. Upwards of $2,000 for a used Supercharger. And the adapter kit is running $1,400... Holy crap! It seems to me that for that kind of money, one could procure and LSA supercharger, or a very nice dual turbo setup that would make infinitely more power and provide a proven combination. I'm afraid this caddy setup is DOA.
Yes do a comparison test on 5.3 and 6.0. More data!
I would love to see a 5.3 done with this combo. Obviously it'll make a little more power, but most guys use the 5.3 for swaps vs. A 4.8 or 6.0 ALSO, that's just my opinion. No facts. Love the videos.
I definitely would like to see a 5.7liter LS1. I think this could be a solid setup for a f body guy like me.
I seen these adaptors a while ago in pre production and knew I wasn’t even going to bother with It for that price. I wanted one for my new caprice but it already has square heads I would just get a lsa again
5.3, 6 litre are great options, one you missed though the mighty Buick 3800 lol
Opening up the manifold inlet to match the larger throttle body would probably help too.
I'm pro 6.0 testing only because it's another data point to interpolate my build (and hint at how much timing I can take a stab at) with my gt500 m122 setup. My lq4 with BTR stg2 blower cam and 2.75" pulley makes ~10psi at 135iat post cooler. The m122 rotor pack 100% can feed a 6.0, everyone saying it can't hasn't done it. I even have a 2.55" pulley I haven't run yet due to chassis issues at my current power. If the IAT's stay under 145f it's a go this spring.
"bargain" price "cheap" blower then add $1k adapter plates and other parts... now you're close to a used blower setup from a Camaro..... based on current offerings on ebay today. Still interesting to see what a Northstar blower setup will do on an LS.
🎯 might as well buy a Vortech V-3 Si Or TorqStorm
I was thinking the same. I see Texas Speed have take off LSA blowers on sale all the time from their upgrades they're doing to the large blowers on ZL1's.
Shane Singleton where do you see that? Just look at their website every once and awhile?
@@aidancloke4398 I follow them on Facebook.
We definitely need to see it on a hot 5.3 with a pulley swap of some kind
I have a 5.3 to build and would love to see the output. I want to put this blower on it. I had been researching it a couple years back to see if I could use the Cadillac blower on my truck 5.3 so I'm very interested in these videos
I would like to see a 5.3 with a turbo or pro charger and a blow though TBI with E85. Also intercooled. Very cold charge temp= more timing.
Yes! Please do this on the 5.3! I'm looking to do a ls swap soon and I'd like to get in the low 400's hp/tq to the wheels. I'm guessing after mechanical friction/parasitic loss, I'd need 500hp at the crank?? A 5.3 with low Cad boost is the ticket! I want to see that torque curve off of idle too! 😜🤙
its going on a 6.0l next
Ooooh I may have to suggest this blower setup to a friend 😎
Blower cam and pulley swap for sure. Thats what the weekend warriors would do. Ballin on a budget.
Port the blower inlet. Can you take pressure measurements at the inlet to the rotors, between the rotors and intercooler, and after the intercooler? That will show where there is pressure loss in the system. Where is manifold pressure being measured? One big step up that Eaton made going from the 5th to 6th Gen was making the blower inlet port much larger. (But be careful not to change the port timings to increase the overlap between inlet and discharge.) Restriction at the blower inlet forces it to run at a higher pressure ratio to make the same manifold pressure. This is why a larger throttle body increased power, and raised boost slightly.
Keep optimizing the blower on the 4.8, then take the recipe and put it on a 5.3 and 6.0.
thnx-we have done a lots of inlet testing on PD blowers-would be nice to have the pressure loss data at various positions
Prices have increased, and I'd love to hear what the outcome is on a 5.3.
I just watched a PINKS from way back. Chief, daddy Dave well all those guys and you. Pretty cool weren't those the days
That's Rich Christensen. Not all bald guys are the same guy. :)
@@philipmacduffie7612 you are thinking they are different people, now you are causing me to watch pinks and look closer you may be right
Ethanol is a hell of a drug
As I stated in another video, you should install a velocity stack and see if there is a difference.
Thank you
If i had a dyno to use I would always try to show the difference in power with a velocity stack and no stack.
I see most video dyno pulls with turbos do not run any velocity stack.
Most fast cars run some sort of velocity stack.
Why run a larger throttle body and not try to increase the air flow with a velocity stack?
Just an observation 👍
Awesome content
Add turbos on top of the supercharger like planned for the 3.8
I’d be curious to see what it does with a larger balancer. The M122 doesn’t have the best intercooler setup. Would like to see if it could handle more boost. I know you don’t have it set up to read post compressor temps, but I’d be curious to see what they look like on a few back to back pulls.
5.3 would be my next pick just because its the most popular out of the three when it comes down to budget. 5.3's are everywhere the 6.0 is get a little harder to find on a budget.
great video and thanks
I'd say 5.3 should be the standard engine to run tests on. it's very common in the junk yard and a lot more popular than the 4.8.
Wanna see it on a 5.3 and/or 6.0. Very cool video!
The first run with the super charger, what was that exhaust leak blowing out on the right side twice ?
Surprised it only wanted 23 deg. I know the stock flex fuel calibrations add 10-16 deg on the 5.3s, and we regularly run 25 total or more on LSA engines at 12-13 psi on E85. Maybe that M122 is just less efficient and won't take as much.
23° isn't that much considering the compression and boost. The 3.78 bore knocks a bit off too. Even ls2 and ls6 engines usually make peak power with less than 30° NA.
The m122 is considerably less efficient than the LSA blower.
The m122 is a 2.0L Gen V Eaton roots rotor pack with 60 degrees of twist
The LSA is a 1920cc Eaton TVS rotor pack with 160 degrees of twist.
Almost identical displacement, but biggg difference in efficiency.
I didn't indicated that it wanted only 23 degrees and no more-it might have added power at 24 or 25 degrees but that was never tried (plus small bore, dome piston)
Ah I just assumed since you were exploring the contribution of timing that you advanced till you saw no gains and then backed off a step.
Boost trumps brand loyalty, I'm a Blue Oval guy but I would really like to see this blower on a 5.3 and 6.0. Kind of curious to see if this blower can provide enough air flow to turn a 6.0 into a beast.
I would just focus on the 4.8 V8. See what u can do get max out power on a supercharger and other modds as well. Later on do the same thing on a 5.3. Repeat each bigger engine until u stop on 6.3 stroker. (383ci) or stroke 6.2 to 7.0 (427ci) Something that line.
build up the 4.8, cam shaft, bigger throttle body, smaller pulley, just dont modify the super charger so you can do the same steps of mods on a 5.3 and the 6.0 to see how much more power and what the capabilities of the motors for this set up with the same steps and parts so the everyday guy can see where they can go with there set up and there situation (pump gas, e85, and race fuel setups/ everyday use or race) and maybe video's on a 408 stoker also? (readily available kits and no replacement for displacement)
I'd like to see a 6.0 as well. I have a lifted suburban originally had a 6.5 diesel. Bad head gaskets. Bought a spare motor, ended up having a broken crank. Watch alot of videos. Want to slap a ls in it.
I wanna see a 6L. This is a compelling option for my truck.
A 6.0 would be working this blower hard. especially if heads and a cam was used. It's just a122
Its a 1.2l blower, tiny
6l too big. 5.3l would be as far as I would go.
@@EGGINFOOLS would work the same as 4.8, just rpm range shifted lower.. same power, lower boost with same pulleys
@@wormy9647 no it wouldn't. Same way the m90 was to restrictive on the 4.8 test.
Since you are incrementally stepping up, I'd say go to a 5.3. Run same tests as 4.8 then add smaller pulley to super charger.
This is freakin' awesome!
Similar power to the early GT500's which also used the M122 roots blower.
Definitely up the displacement
Would loveeee to see it max effort ported Richard. I’m about to get an XLR-V and build the nuts off of it
I bet this would be alot of fun in a Denali with a LQ9 with a 2500-2800 stall and a small cam with headers and exhaust at about 10-12psi.
Love to see testing on a 6.0
Would have liked to see the boost curve? The flat lower rpm torque line, seems to not show a rising boost curve which I "thought" I understood had to happen with all positive displacement superchargers?? Maybe part 3 will shine the light of knowledge and learn me up ?