AC compressor oil balance will be different or same model compressor ?
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2020
- You can purchase the same model compressor from different manufacturers one compressor will come completely with no oil another manufacture will ship it only with assembly lube or the amount of oil just for that one component the compressor let’s pretend it needs only two or 3 ounces then another manufacture will ship you the exact same compressor with the complete system charge of oil let’s say 7 ounces for example. Now you can see where things can go really wrong and cause a burned-out compressor come back or poor cooling performance.
Thx for the video. I subbed to your channel for your ethos of education, workmanship and integrity. Sadly it's becoming rare. Cheers
TheGibby3340 Just looked at your channel seen the problem with the leaky Honda condenser all those Hondas had leaky condensers it’s good to see Honda has extended their warranty they used to deny it and make the customer pay for a new condenser claiming it was rock damage
t lech One of my Pals on YT saw the video and recommended your channel. I am just a hobbyist but I find A/C & Climate Control fascinating. So I am glad to have found yer channel. Thx again.
Wow that was the best oil discussion I have seen on CZcams
Excellent video! I have been searching for days to find the correct answer to the content you talked about. I did the right thing but you verified it.
Yes it could be a little scary or worrisome doing your first oil balance without a good explanation.
You just have to watch out for those compressors that the oil does not pour out of the top ports they actually have a little oil something and have to remove a bolt to remove the oil
Big Thanks, for making this video. Good information and best.
This information is valuable!
@@marvinpostadan3484 it could be the difference between a long life compressor Ann A short life compressor
Oil logging in commercial systems that are custom installed on site are susceptible to this because of bad piping practices. ie: grocery stores , food warehouses etc. THE BIGGER STUFF. The P.T. CHART IS part of this also.
Yes car suffer from the same problem.
I see the same thing in mini split systems for residential when the evaporator is located one or two floors down the condenser on the roof and they run low on refrigerant.
When disconnecting the refrigerant lines downstairs on the evaporator a ton of liquid oil comes pouring out that was trapped I never made it back to the compressor
Subscribed 👍
Great video, thx for taking the time to make it. Im located in North Central Texas, D/FW, all my life and wrenching since the early 80's. June, July, and August regularly see 100°F+ days. I understand different A/C systems but wouldnt consider myself a specialist in that category; but def know more than the average parts replacer. I had a 1995 BMW that needed a compressor. Here's the back story. The owner had a noisy compressor for the last 7 years but the air out the center vents was always 39°F on low humid days and 41°F on higher humid days based on the temp gauge owner always kept in the center vents. He had a 2 year slow leak requiring a partial charge every few years. Owner would buy one of those Walmart quick charge cans when the need arose.., every 2 years. Owner said he only bought the charge can that said it also included "oil and sealant". I didnt think about confirming owner's temp gauge was properly calibrated, but after doing the job I was able to get the air out his center vents down to 41°F which is good. My OCD wont let me overlook why its not down to 39°F. During Oil Balancing, the old compressor, original Denso, had 150ml of oil in it. The oil had no metal discoloration nor refrigerant dye in it. The new compressor, a New Mastercool unit, had 150ml in it. On this year BMW the Xpansion Valve was under the dash next to the evaporator - owner didnt want to pay for replacement due to labor charges and old oil being relatively clean. The original compressor wasnt noisey by the time it came to me, but it wasnt cooling at all. I removed the A/C lines, flushed them, replaced all O'ring seals I could including the Check Valve O'rings at the low side and high side. I didnt flush the condensor nor evaporator due to oil still being clean/clear but did replace accumaltor/drier along with the compressor
1) FYI, I only put 120ml oil back in the new compressor
2) Since Owner added refridgerant 3 times in 7 years, that included "oil"
3) I didnt flush the entire system
4) Replacement compressor was not a Denso, but a Mastercool unit
5) Final temps out car's center vents is 41°F to 43°F during test drive. The job was done recently during local temp's in the 95°F+ days.
Here's my question.
1) How much oil is in those quick charge can's that ppl get at walmart that this owner used 3 times, that might add to the overall system, I was hesitant to go back with 150ml, so I only went back with 120ml.
2) Is a Denso unit that much better than all the other aftermarket units?
3) Are owner's center vent temp's being 2 to 3°F less than what owner had before simply a result of me not flushing the entire system, or are the Denso units that much better than all aftermarket units?
Most ppl wouldnt quibble over 2 - 3°F, but as a self taught mechanic, my OCD just wont let the difference go.
Any thoughts are most welcomed.
Edit: My Vaccum Pump is a 7cfm pump. Because I didnt do a full system flush I evacuated the system for 1.5 hours
1: usually 1 ounce of oil in those little cans.
*(there is one smaller little pony can get his pre-charged that comes with 3 ounces of oil in it)
2: the DENSO unit quality is better. The only thing that destroys a Denso is the Technician who Murders it.
The DENSO units as long as it’s the same compressor. The displacement is still exactly the same or power.
3: too many things can affect system temperature to guess.
And it’s OK to leave a vacuum pump on for 24 hours or you can do is make the system dryer I will never do any damage.
@@coldfinger459sub0 thx for the quick response; your experience always beats my guessing!
@@kevinshasteen5682 testing always beats guessing.
Or reading .
I always tell a customer if they put a few cans of refrigerant with the oil in it all bets are off .
You either pay for the entire system to get flushed tear down that evaporator to remove the expansion valve, flush out the oil.
Or there’s no guarantee know Warranty at all whatsoever .
I did not break the car you did .
There’s only one way to fix this mess .
And that’s do it right or don’t do it at all or live with the results. You made them now live with it. .
Friends don’t let friends use refrigerant cans containing oil 🤣
Spread the knowledge long to somebody else
@@coldfinger459sub0 The example I gave earlier was an owner that went cheep. Time will tell if the aftermarket compressor holds up or not; enjoy your content and others like you that are willing to teach; I'ld rather learn the easy way than the hard way
@@kevinshasteen5682 for some people learning to EZ Ray involves reading the manufacturers, instructions and anytime you mention the word reading to them that’s considered the hard way
They rather learn by breaking parts and either taking losses or charging the customer for parts they didn’t need in the first place because they don’t like to read .
What if the leak is at the compressor like the casing see yours or the shaft seal don’t you think the oil would leak out from there since the oil compressor is the main source of the AC system that is the most oil.
Exactly!
Excellent video on oil
@t lech i am currently replacing the AC Compressor on my 2003 Toyota Echo, It's a Denso 471-1341 ... for the life of me i cannot find the correct amount of Pag 46 oil i should be putting in the Compressor ... People say 3oz, some say 4oz and another thread said 7.75oz .... I was hoping you knew the correct amount i should put into my Compressor ...
You will find different information unfortunately manufacturers are not so friendly with this information and sometimes the person copying all the information it just transferred over the way they termed it from another vehicle long ago and tries to apply it to these newer vehicles and nobody catches the mistake.
Their system charge of oil ?is different than the compressor charge of oil ?
Total capacity system charger oil let’s pretend and use example could be 7 ounces if you looked up the oil charge.
If you look up how much oil the compressor is supposed to hold after operation it could be 1 ounce and it could be 3 ounces.
Off the top of my head I do not know there’s hundreds of cars with hundreds of models and I don’t memorize them I personally have not had to replace a echo compressor before.
7 ounces sounds a lot more refrigerant charge that’s only about 500 g I can remember that correctly.
I have the same problem. The old A/C compressor had only a few drops oil. So what should I do? Do I drain the new A/C compressor (It's pre-filled). How long does it take for oil in the evaporator to return to compressor? Did you put some small amount of oil in new the new A/C compressor? Thanks
1: Do you have a AC RRR machine Recovery Recycle Recharge ?
2: does the system operate does the compressor and gauge meaning that it’s not burnt up the clutch is good enough to work and if you feel the system with refrigerant right now would it run ?
Are you replacing the compressor because of a leak ? or because it’s physically mechanically broken ?
3: you have to look up to see if it’s the type of compressor that you can drain all the oil out through the service valves high side and low side port or is this one of those compressors where there’s actually a oil port located on the case of the compressor and you have to drain out the oil through the oil port a threaded plug with a seal ?
Where are you look up the compressors part number and you go to the compressor manufacturer website and you pull down the specifications and the data on that specific compressor or some other data that will give you the compressors oil charge quantity just for the compressor alone
Is that vehicle that you’re working on complete refrigerant oil charge
So if i changed all my ac components , and flushed all my lines. Can i add the required system oil amount in the compressor.
? Plus I emptied the little amount of oil from the new compressor.
1: Did the box that you bought the compressor manufacture state that the compressor is completely full with a quantity of oil for the entire brand new system ?
2: yes the little bit of oil you removed you can add to the compressor or add to the suction line at the refrigerant fitting with an oil injector
3: is this a used junkyard compressor the reason why you think you have to add the entire capacity required oil to the compressor.
Usually OEM manufacture compressors as far as I know as this moment the last time I read a manual come with the full required amount of oil from the DENSO factory factory supplied compressor for a Prius.
If you get the compressor from anywhere else unless it has instructions it’s just guessing.
Could extra oil cause a Comp Lock code and AC light flashing on an 07 Avalon? Pressure gauge looks normal, compressor just shuts down. New compressor, Ac amp, belt tensioner too
I have heard of some vehicles had that issue I can’t say specifically I personally have never came across that on an Avalon that I can remember.
If it has that revolution position sensor located on a compressor then it does have the capability of having that code in that problem.
That you mentioned that there is a new compressor on there and if it was a compressor that came with a full system charge of oil inside of it then it’s definitely has too much oil.
What are the pressures that looks normal.
Does this happen while driving down the road after a long time using the AC for several minutes?
Does this happen at initial start up when you first get into the car when it has been sitting overnight or through the afternoon and you start it up for the first time immediately gets a lock code?
Did the flashing light exist before the compressor was replaced?
What is the system recharged with refrigerant cans that had oil charge?
Does the high side pressure cycle with the fan engagement allow the high side to go up for example make up a number 230 psi in the fan comes on full speed and then the pressure dropped down to 150 psi in the fan shuts off I’m just using these numbers as an example.
@@coldfinger459sub0 Thanks for the reply. Pressure reading was 45 and 150 last night but it was also 55 outside, fans are running and regulating the high side
I started getting the lock code once in a while after installing a used compressor, I bought a new unit and it was not working almost immediately. Notice it won’t engage after it sits , once I’m on the freeway it works till I’m exiting and the car returns to idle on the off ramp then it locks again. I used a robin air machine to recharge it but I might have put too much oil in by not balancing the levels when swapping the compressors.
@@ActionMotorsportsCA NOW? it gets interesting with the rest of the STORY ?.
One new compressor and then a used compressor?.
There was no instructions written all over on the outside of the box ? or that small novel of a several page book written in seven different languages in the bottom of the box ?, or at least one page of fairly detailed instructions ? Or a bright yellow or pink sticker over the top of the compressor giving details about oil balancing and adding or removing oil ?.
No instructions on the new compressor about turning it a dozen times by hand if there was oil in the system to pump it out first before you engage the clutch ?.
It was just a brown or white box with zero instructions and the compressor ?.
That 45 psi on the low side 150 psi on the high side at 55°F that’s a problem. (45 psi low side @ 55°F )
If you got the charge capacity from a sticker under the hood is never an accident and it was original hood that part should be correct.
If you got the refrigerant charge capacity from a book or some other source unfortunately other sources are sometimes wrong.
An old Robin air machine on a vehicle with a small refrigerant charge just over a pound starts getting kind of iffy because their accuracy is somewhere around plus or -2 or 3 ounces usually when they get old even when they were new they were not that great.
Forgot to ask what was the reason for replacing the first original compressor ?.
And if it was working what kind of procedures and diagnostic was used to try to determine the compressor was bad or to make the system work better before the compressor was replaced ?.
Is this high side service fitting we’re taking your pressure located just after the compressor and before the condenser ? Or is the high side fitting located after the condenser on the small liquid line heading to the firewall ?.
In the driveway if you raise the RPMs with the air conditioning on roll down the windows open up all the doors put it on fresh air not recycle. Hold RPMs at about 1200 to 1700 RPMs for a few minutes. Will the problem repeat and the compressor stop intermittently and flash your code ?
Good news is I just looked up four different models to choose from on the Avalon or specifications and they are all 500 g( 1 lb. 2 oz.)
The oil charge is 130 g (4.6 ounces)
That's called OIL LOGGING in the low side of the refrigeration system , because of an under charged system, and refrigerant/oil velocity speeds slow down inside of the pipes, collecting in the system that cannot come back to the compressor that needs that oil for lubrication. The refrigerant under normal charge and pressures, carrys that oil in the loop system.
If I change the oil in a hermetic recip can I avoid replacing it if it's been contaminated? It's R134a with POE. I'm also assuming there's only one type of POE oil. The supplier sells it by the gallon.
There are different viscosities a POE
Are we talking about the can with the polar bear on it probably says number 32.
We are theoretically supposed to look up the manufactures recommendation for which viscosity used for the compressor and temperature application. I’m no expert but I would look it up in the manual for that manufacture.
What was it contaminated with ?
We talking about the system that was cut open and left open to the atmosphere for a few weeks lots of moisture ?
Somebody filled it up with the wrong refrigerant?
If you purchase a gallon let me know what the prices in my area I pay $93 for a gallon.
Always feel like I just visited the proctologist after I buy a gallon
If it was high moisture content and if this is your personal compressor or a friend upsize the filter dryer and then in a couple weeks change it out for a new one.
We are talking about hermetic compressor on a residential HVAC split system
Monster Energy drink merchandiser completely flat when purchased used. Tapped and left open for weeks. Found leaky evaporator. I always replace driers but never oversized before. Wondering if I could just syringe out the oil and put the same amount back in. I bet it would speed up evacuation. Customer doesn't want to spend a lot which means compressor costs too much. Maybe I could sell the oil though. I want it to last for him.
@@RobertLanghorn where are you going to try to take the compressor out and turn it upside down ?.
I’m bigger systems I install ball valves before and after the dryer placement on highly contaminated systems.
After continuous running for 1 to 3 weeks.
closing off the ball valves remove the refrigerant isolate the filter , cut out the filter slap in a new filter.
👌👌👍👍
Awesome video! Straight forward, no BS, TON of good info, wish other ppl were like you. Also a question...if there was a leak on, lets say condenser, and you don't really know how much oil is left in the system, what would you do? Is there a way to suck that oil out and than place appropriate amount back? You mentioned something with vacuum pump working over night? Is there a way to do this without some crazy equipment or busting the whole system out?
Vacuum pumps do not remove refrigerant oil.
Oil doesn’t get burnt up it doesn’t get used up it doesn’t wear out when the system is clean the oil does not evaporate it will stay in the system forever as long as there’s not a major leak or a component changed
Usually those really tiny pinhole leaks that you can’t see or hear they take months to leak out they might lose a small amount of oil
And what you end up seeing is a dark spot on the condenser that will gather dust on the oil as it comes out it might be the size of a dime a quarter a $.50 piece or even a dollar piece
That’s a equivalent to one drop of oil or three or four or five drops of oil that’s all unless it’s a obvious large dripping mess from a hole.
Think about any oil and what happens to it when it gets on a piece of paper or cardboard
When you look at it the first day when you first put it on there it’s just one drop of oil but when you come back the next day the oil has soaked into the fibers of the paper or cardboard and spread out to something the size of a quarter to all the way up to the size of a dollar piece.
That is how little oil is lost when you see those little spots that are lightly dusted from tiny leaks on condensers nearly unmeasurable.
The old-timers who would always say let’s put in an ounce just to be safe that was great on old cars when the oil capacity was 7 ounces 10 oz. 11 oz. 14 ounces one or two extra ounces of oil wasn’t going to kill the system or cause severe performance loss
Now we’re talking about cars with oil fill capacities of 2.77 ounces to around 4 ounces. Adding an extra 2 ounces of oil you just added 50% of the whole capacity of the oil charge.
And with these new tiny Microchannel and Evaporators extremely highly efficient but they have a lot of surface area and surface area is very tiny trying to fit a lot of oil in there at the same time as refrigerant is like lover on a polar bear or a sea lion in the cold water it stops heat from transferring that’s what oil does.
so unless you’re changing a component you do not need to add oil
Unless you have a recovery machine that accidentally pulled out a little too much oil while I was pulling out refrigerant it drops down into an oil separator and then that drops down into a graduated cylinder measuring device that tells you exactly how many milliliters of oil was pulled out during the refrigerant removal process
And then you add that much oil back in.
The most I tell people to do if they could not find their leak and they see no obvious oil signs is get a good UV dye that is concentrated like TracerLine Products or AC Extends. It’s a concentrated dye that’s in a oil base and you only need 5 mL that you add into the system this will give you a combination of 5 mL of oil in a little bit of UV concentrated fluorescent trace dye to look for leaks later
@@coldfinger459sub0 All that you said makes perfect sense. Again, you rock! And, just out of curiosity, if someone wanted to remove all the oil from the system due to overfill or contamination to place appropriate amount of clean oil how is it done? Do you have a video on that subject? Thank you so very much for your time and help!
@@gavrilodurica9223 no I do not have a video on that it’s really simple manual labor little bit messy unless you’re very creative with hoses rags and buckets.
You could go by manufactures websites of AC flush solvent look at a few and they show you how do use their little pressurize bottle with a little squirt nozzle.
And you literally take apart the entire system blowing air approve solvent through all the hoses and metal lines
You blow solvent through the evaporator the expansion valve must be removed you can and cannot flush through a expansion valve or orifice tube
You flush through the condenser
If it’s the new style condenser that has a built in desiccant sock. You must remove the descan sock first put the plug back in and then flush out the condenser
And then open the condenser plug again insert a brand-new desic and sock and search the little filter screen put back on the new plug with new O-ring.
You have to remove the compressor and turn it upside down and or unscrew the drain plug that traps a few ounces of oil inside you must read the instructions for that particular year make model manufacture compressor because they are different on different cars sometimes oil does not come out of the suction or discharge lines it only comes out of a drain plug.
Lots of labor
@@coldfinger459sub0 Again, excellent answers. In case I do end up doing complete oil drain, at least I know what needs to be done and what do look for. Thanks a lot!
good morning boss
if you install new complete ac system how many ml oil for system and how many ml oil for compressor
almost all compressor manufacturer tags on the compressor about the oil
but for the complete system how many ml
except to the compressor
It depends on the manufacturer
Sometimes the compressor ML on the tag is the complete total oil system capacity
Sometimes it is not
The complete ML oil capacity is different on every car
It looked up your make model and trim package .
For example
2017 Toyota Corolla, EX
There are computer programs where you put the Vin number in the 17 digit identification number, located under the windshield the metal tag .
I am replacing ac compressor and dryer but cannot find how much oil the ac system holds and or how much oil the ac compressor holds if replaced can find oil capacity for condenser evaporator and dryer I look in the shop manual to this information it is a 2002 4RUNNER if you have any info let me know I am installing new DENSO COMPRESSOR ,DRYER,CONDENSER
7.61 ounces.
225 mL
DENSO ND - 8
46 Viscosity, double end cap PAG oil
Make sure you check how much oil is inside the brand new compressor follow the instructions that come in the box ,
Some compressors come empty
Some compressors come completely full with the entire amount of refrigerant
Some compressors come only with enough refrigerant oil just for the compressor only
7.61 oz is that the total of oil for the complete system or just the ac compressor?
@@michaelswindell7938 that is the total for the whole complete system
Ok thanks
Quick question , On a compressor change out besides changing the dryer , accumulator wouldn't you do a complete system flush With A solvent cleaner, An also empty out the new compressor to make sure the correct Oil quantity is correct even if it comes from the manufacturer, I try to watch all your videos I think you're extremely Knowledgeable, and Straight to the point tech, Leaning from all ur vib, I work on my on cars, thanks.... for the schooling
Only time you have to flush is when you have to burn to oil and metal flakes.
Some compressors just have a leaky case or front shaft seal no contaminants inside the system. So the system will be clean just need a oil balance not a flush
@@coldfinger459sub0can you explain exactly what a burned up compressor means?
@@mikeprice8307
It usually occurs as the refrigerant runs low from a small leak less cooling. Comes back to the compressor to keep it cool the same way your coolant in the radiator keeps your engine cool .
That’s not the only thing that occurs a little bit of refrigerant oil leaves with the Refrigerant as your compressors in operation and with a full refrigerant charge it returns
But with a Lowe’s Refrigerant charge the oil goes out of the refrigerant, but not all of it returns.
So slowly over a period of time, the compressor starves for oil, lubrication and cooling
Eventually, it gets to a point where the moving parts no longer have enough lubrication, and they start running metal to metal slowly shaving off metal particles in overheating. What oil is remaining to the point where it burns .
The oil or sometimes look like it’s metallic paint, silver dark, gray or black
It has tiny shavings of metal in it like 3000 grit sandpaper
And these tiny metal flakes are so tiny. They pass through the screens and filters and go up into the expansion valve, all the pipes, and the evaporator throughout the system.
Sometimes the compressor sees that it will not turn my hand. Sometimes it’s still spins.
@@coldfinger459sub0 ok lol I didn't realize this was TL.
So if it were burned up, would that keep the clutch from engaging jumping it to test?
@@mikeprice8307 not usually
Only if the clutch was slipping, and it got so hot that the bearing goes out on the pulley and it starts going off center caulking a little bit spending part engages the electric windings of the field coil and short them out .
Now you want to look up the procedures for properly testing your field goal properly testing your wire from your relay, two-year fuel coil properly testing your power to your car relay for the coil properly fine power to the correct pin only to energize your compressor coil.
A few steps to take.
All in the shop manual.
Then you would have no power
Can i just use air compressor to blow all the oil out of the system? To put the right amount in with vacuum and everything of course. New compressor, both expansion valves, both condensers, dryer, rear lines.
You could. Make sure your receiver dryer is the last thing you put in before you undo the plugs on the dryer.
But basically, when you perform your vacuum all the water vapor and the system that is on the high side, getting drawn through the lines that passes through the dryer, the desiccant material will be absorbing it, and the vacuum pump will not be releasing it so you basically nearly saturate your dryer capacity the first time you installed it
Vacuum does not dry out Desiccant
If you do that method, I would recommend keeping it on the vacuum pump for about 24 hours. That’s how much of a difference it makes.
If he had a micron gauge, you can actually measure the difference in how long it
Takes between a car that uses Shop compressed air taking several hours to 24 hours
And a car that was clean and dry to start with never exposed to that atmosphere of shopped compressed air can take an hour or less
Under ideal brand new system in about five minutes well below 500 µm to approaching one or 200 µm
That is the difference between a contaminated shop and one that is not contaminated with shop air and the dryers that you buy in the auto parts store and put on compressors dryers parts per range only dryers that take out large particular drops of water from airlines for air tools
But just leave it on the vacuum pump for 24 hours
@@coldfinger459sub0 my front condenser is also part trans cooler and dryer. Already replaced. So I gotta replace it again after I pull a vacuum? Sounds like I'm giving up after replacing everything 😕. Or add an aftermarket dryer.....
@@Theworldaroundme143 simple just keep it on the vacuum pump longer. The good thing about vacuum is you can never over vacuum you could just do a better job.
@@coldfinger459sub0 awesome thanks a lot really need some cool air lol. Very helpful.
@@Theworldaroundme143 the good thing about air-conditioning. It is so easy even a child with one single hose in a can of refrigerant can get cold coming out of the dash.
But the secret is the compressors actually really never supposed to die. A compressor will outlive the life of the vehicle. It will outlive the life of a transmission in the engine when done properly and maintained.
When somebody doesn’t do air conditioning properly or maintain compressors burn out compressors don’t die they are intentionally, murdered by lack of knowledge .
So you do this compressor perfectly when this vehicle is being taken to the trash compactor in the cemetery the AC compressor should still be working after the transmission or engine has died
I think the most confusing part is how does one know the exact amount of oil in the "system" (not just in the compressor) unless they put in a completely dry system? Does pulling a vacuum remove all oil from the "system" as a starting point?
For Example; What if multiple full compressors were changed in the system the in theory the system is full of oil but not the compressor; how does one come to the conclusion that the system is full of oil or actually completely dry of any oil. I understand the "balancing" theory behind it all; but where the dipstick (lol, j/k) to show one how much oil is currently in the system/evaporator?
This is where reading the factory manual downloading the information about oil balance is highly recommended.
If it’s just a slow leaky system you can fill it up completely run it for 15 minutes under a heavy load and then let it sit for about 30 minutes and then do a very slow refrigerant recovery on the low side this will keep all the oil in place because it has just been distributed equally throughout the system with your full 100% refrigerant charge that you perform for diagnosis.
Now by following the oil balancing procedure on the compressor it will let you know if the entire system is low or overfilled with oil.
If it’s a completely burnt out compressor where it’s all black inside and you have metal flake
Then you will be replacing the expansion valve replacing the receiver dryer replacing the condenser you will be flushing out all the refrigerant lines and hoses flushing out the Evaporator so they will not even be one drop of oil in the entire system
In this case you will just be adding the full oil quantity from the beginning because you’re starting fresh and dry and clean
good point, there should be indicator build in to show the exact oil amount in system or in new compressors so there's no guessing. poor design by most manufacturers that's why it's confusing.
It’s all about the money 💰 profits
Great video!
I´m about to replace the compressor on my Passat 3B 1.8T -99. I have the Zexel compressor. My ac-system was working and had no leaks but it didn´t cool the air enough. The workshop diagnosed my car and gave me the advice ro replace compressor, dryer and orifice tube.
The new compressor I bought was prefilled with 180 ml oil. The old compressor had about 80 ml in it. I also got about 15 ml out of the dryer. I called the workshop and asked how much oil I should prefill the compressor with. They answered me that I should keep the same amount of oil that was prefilled in the new compressor. They didn´t even ask how much was in the system before.
Don´t you think this could potentially overfill the system? After all I have read about oil balancing ac-systems I think it would be wiser to refill same amount of oil from the old compressor (lets say 80-85 ml) + 10 % of 250 ml (25-30 ml) for the dryer. Let´s say a total of 115 ml.
Yes, you are correct
Too much oil causes lower cooling capacity
The system will still work just less efficient
Some compressors are very sensitive to too much oil , higher cylinder pressures when it’s a lot .
Some compressors, it causes the front shaft, seal the fail, and start the leak
Other types of compressors it will be harder on the bearings and cause bearing failures due to the excess of high cylinder pressure causing a shorter compressor life.
On other AC system designs in certain weather conditions, sometimes associated with cold weather will cause migration and oil build up in the compressor when it is located down low on the engine.
Then, when the customer goes to use the air conditioning at a future date, the cylinders are filled with oil.
When the clutch tries to engage one day, it’s a nice clean break, snapping the crankshaft or any other component inside the compressor.
Of course shops that are ignorant to this fact don’t know this and they do not know that they are the reason that the customer compressor fails later on in the future because it might happen in six months or one year later or more.
Ignorance is expensive, and as a direct relationship of the owner of the shop
@@coldfinger459sub0 Thank you for your quick answer! I will fill the compressor with about 115 ml and hopefully that will extend the life length of the compressor and also better cooling capacity. I live in Sweden and the weather gets cold here in the north so that is good information about the oil build up. That could possible be an issue in my case with too much oil in the system... Again, thanks for great videos!
@@LinusLarsson-ge6wg since it’s your own vehicle, don’t be afraid to leave the vacuum pump overnight 12 hours or even 24 hours you can never over vacuum.
All you can do is help remove a little more moisture out of the system by leaving it on the vacuum pump longer
@@coldfinger459sub0 Thank you for that information!!
Great info, hard to find oil compressor facts. Im changing shaft seal on a 2002 ford superduty 6.8l fs-10 compressor that s total capacity for oil is 9oz. If im not replacing and just servicing shaft seal. Is it recommended to change oil. Also if I drain oil and its low how much oil remains in system so the remainder can be added. All I can find is info on a new compressor. Thank you
If the complete system capacity is 9 ounces, then you can figure you have 9 ounces in the system
But if you remove the compressor, and you only pour out 3 ounces out of the compressor .
Then you know you have 6 ounces spread throughout the rest of the system
So you only put 3 ounces back into the new compressor? .
If I remember correctly, this did have a cumulator in Orfice Tube I very rarely ever see these vehicles in San Francisco Lol you would never find a parking spot 🤣
I would be thinking that you already took off the compressor system was open to the atmosphere. It’s already very old. . So you might as well replace the accumulator because it has a desiccant material in it for keeping the system dry.
I’m not sure you have to look up the specifications off the top of my head. If it’s a cumulator, I think they recommended 3 ounces but don’t quote me on that look up the specifications. .
You could drill a hole in the bottom of the accumulator to see how much oil comes out plus a lot of oil gets stuck inside a desiccant bag because it’s like a giant sponge .
Everything on every vehicle comes down to reading the specific manual and specifications for that vehicle because there’s so many different kind of systems that have so many different capacities of both refrigerant oil and refrigerant .
Hello thanks for reply. My manual say if oil drained is btwn 3-5oz pour same plus 1 oz. If greater than 5oz pour same. If less than 3oz drained pour 3 oz back in . Oh it's a fs-10 if I failed to say. Only info for new compressors. 🤔
YESTERDAY a replaced a compressor and it happened exactly like you mention on the video it hardly had any oil in it
And how many compresses do you think it burnt out because of this or the front shaft seal blows out because of too much oil just outside of the warranty in the shop Hass to eat either a burned up compressor or a blown out front shaft seal due to either under charge with oil or overcharge with oil this happens all the time.
This happened when my father was a young man because of lack of knowledge he seen this come into his shop from other shops.
When I was young I used to see this come into my shops or my fellow coworkers in properly install compressors and they were always come back within a year or two burnt up or blowing out again.
Now 30+ years later my son is seen and witnessing the same thing from other shops other technicians burning out compressors oil lugging and blowing out shaft seals or breaking cranks breaking piston rods blowing out read valves due to too much oil.
My son has never had to experience this problem because he was taught I never had to experience these kind of problems because I was taught my father never had to experience these kind of problems because he was taught this is what happens when you have a good teaching and mentorship from a senior technician who already knows.
the majority of no formal education technicians to learn by breaking customers cars and then charging them for it.
When the so-called technicians reply.(“I am learning”!?) ......
iam completely redoing my system. new compressor, accumulator, drier.my system requires 10 once. my compressor is pre-loaded with 3onces.
do I spead the balance of oil across the system evenly?
If you have a accumulator you could pour the remainder inside the inlet side of the accumulator.
The refrigerant mixing in Venturi effect will suck up the needed proportion of oil constantly feeding it to the compressor at the correct ratio until the entire system has ran long enough to balance out the oil throughout the system.
@@coldfinger459sub0 thankyou for your prompt reply. what you say makes sense.
iv gotten alot of misdirection on this.
Wow I completely get it, but fuck there has got to be an easier way to design oil balancing.
It’s the human factor that messes it all up if it wasn’t for people who did not understand that the system must be 100% kept filled all the time your compressor will not burn out in the first place
It’s the human factor who does not understand that when you come upon an old system that has not been charged in a few years, partially low on refrigerant that the person involved does not understand that if you ounces of oil extra from the compressor might be stored up in the evaporator that has not returned to the compressor
It’s the human factor who is involved, who is responsible for looking up the specifications and simply following them
There’s not too many options
Unless you add a human being in there that does something wrong in the first place and you happen to be the unlucky guy who comes in behind them and now you’re just guessing on white somebody else’s work they put too much oil or too little oil in before you got to the job that’s the messed up part .
There’s only one way to get it perfectly right and that’s doing it correctly from the get-go or flushing it all out back to zero oil in the system and then starting with a fresh measured amount of oil
Because the system will work with half the amount of oil that is needed, and it might even work for a whole year before it burns out the compressor just after warranty is up
The system may work with one and a half times and maybe even two times more oil in the system and give you some cold temperatures out of the dash for about a year and a half or more before the front shaft. Seal blows out, losing all the Refrigerant just after that Warranty is up on the compressor or sometimes before the warranty is up on the compressor.
All these problems are created by a human being they don’t happen all by themselves .
And there’s only one sure 100% way to know that the system will work exactly perfectly and have a long life upon recharging the system by weight only no guessing no pressures. No temperatures just weighed in.
Vacuum pump on all night totally unnecessary. Once the maximum vacuum has been achieved and this is usually within minutes you can’t and won’t pull out any more
And I take it I’m gonna find that out by using my analog garage is correct. To tell when I have reached my maximum vacuum. ?.
Or do I use that rule of thumb what is supposedly the industry standard based on time?
30 minutes standard 45 minutes standard one hour standard 20 minute standard which one do I use ?
Could too much oil cause orifice tube to blow into evaporator
That would have to be a large amount of oil.
I’ve have seen it a few times .
Sometimes the little dimple indentations on the pipe we’re not big enough to retain the orifice tube
Sometimes it was somebody’s cheap Chinese knock off aftermarket orifice tube that was inserted. That was not the right size. .
@coldfinger459sub0 97 camaro, ac compressor 3 Oz, New evaporator, dryer, condenser 3 Oz. Am I supposed to add oil after the freon charge . Parts are under warranty. Should I start over, or could my problem be fixed. Orifice tube, bought them AutoZone, orallys,Chevy dealer.they all get blown into evaporator. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you
@@marioespinosa6280 this evaporator has the three little dimples. That supposedly hold the office tube in place that you push down inside there.?.
There is a kit for cutting off the old nut at the end of that evaporator or those dimples .
It uses compression fittings to be placed over the old metal tubing . And then you insert it and used to wrenches to tighten it up with a little locking ring sealing crush collar. .
NAPA auto parts and other manufacturers had this little repair piece.
Yes, sir, I looked into that already. I can't use it. the pressure switch is located on top of the orfice tube , could I send you pictures of the line
@@marioespinosa6280 thomas_lech@hotmail.com 👍
You can even move the pressure switch somewhere else on the line .
They have crimp connectors with cheese with threaded inserts, so you can attach pressure switches .
I will soon be servicing my '05 Subaru Outback a/c system and I wanted to flush the evaporator. I'd replace it if I could, but I cannot spend 5 hours getting to it behind the dash. However, some people have stated yes it can be flushed, others say it's impossible, given how it's made, parallel flow, etc. Which one is it? Can I flush the evaporator or not? I'm also replacing the compressor, the condense, flushing the lines, plus putting new O-rings. One last question, is it ok to inject oil into the evaporator after the system has been vacuumed or should I do it before?
If you’re only flushing out all the oil from the evaporator, yes you can flush it out. You have to remove the expansion valve because you cannot flush through a expansion valve.
You’re just using a flush insolvent through a evaporator that only has oil to be removed
You cannot inject oil into the evaporator because there is no it service port into the evaporator
There is only a service port on the suction line, going to the compressor
You can inject some of the oil but your new compressor must have oil in it before you start it up so some of the oil hasta be distributed into the compressor .
You can inject oil after you have vacuum, but then you’ll have to vacuum more because you will introduce a little bit of air and possibly moisture from the Automotive oil that you will be using
So just leave it on the vacuum pump overnight .
You can never over vacuum. All you can do is drive system out a little bit better. .
And there’s nothing wrong with doing a better job .
@@coldfinger459sub0 Thank you much for all the tips. Yes, I’m using PAG 46 mixed with UV dye. OK, I’ll inject 1/2 the system oil on the low pressure side towards the evaporator, but will the expansion valve open to let the oil go into the evaporator? I ask because the ‘Supercool’ website states my car’s a/c system takes almost 1/2 the total oil at the evaporator. And yes, the newer compressor will have the required amount of oil in it before I install it. I have been doing a ton of research since it’s the first time I’m doing this, but there’s always a first time for everything. Thankfully, I have all the tools I need for this job, even bought a syringe looking tool to inject the oil in the system. Yes, I will be removing the expansion valve to flush the evaporator. By the way, are there any risks of the PAG 46 oil being sucked back into the vacuum pump when pulling a vacuum?
@@Mike_44 depending where the low side service fitting is located.
If the pipe is pointing down words how to angle several inches to the oil can run away and down from the lowside service port, you will not have a problem
But if the low side service port sits at the lowest part like in a dip of a you were liquid would sit you will have a problem if the line is perfectly level, you might have a problem .
You do not have a problem we’re thinking about the expansion valve opening up and allowing the oil to go through because you’re injecting the oil after the expansion valve after the evaporator into a wide-open suction line that goes directly back to the compressor not through the expansion valve
The direction of refrigerant flow is from the Small line through the expansion valve through the evaporator into the suction line directly to the compressor
Sometimes, when I do exactly what you’re mentioning, maybe I forgot to put in the oil, what does happen into the Evaporator or into a component .
And my section line is in a unfavorable position for drawing vacuum after I inject oil
I hook up my dry nitrogen. The system is already in a vacuum..
And then turn up the pressure to about 145 psi 125 psi 175 psi 200 psi it doesn’t matter
And do a quick fast turn opening the nitrogen only into the low side service port for a second.
This will flow at high velocity, the nitrogen that will hit the oil and push it down stream or upstream away from the service port,
Then I will draw vacuum from the high side until I have reached about 500 µm or approaching that
Then I will start drawing vacuum from the low side because there’s no mass volume of nitrogen to get a high velocity movement that can possibly sweep the oil backwards to the lowside service port.
Once you down at that 500 µm level, you’re down at the molecular level of movement of molecules
There’s no sweeping action going on that can literally wiped oil off the walls and move it to another location .
@@coldfinger459sub0 Hey! Yes the low pressure port is in on the passenger side, right above and before the expansion valve enters the firewall. The compressor however is by the driver side. Remember, Subarus have horizontally opposed pistons so the engine is flat. Most other components, like alternator, power steering pump and a/c compressor seat in front and above the motor. I guess my question was related to how it indicated on the ‘Supercool’ website that the evaporator carries/takes almost half the a/c system oil. So I was wondering, in order to avoid hydro locking the a/c compressor, if by me injecting the almost 4 OZ of oil into the low pressure side, will the oil travel down to the evaporator through the expansion valve.
And before I do so, is it ok to back-flush the evaporator or should I forward flush it in the direction the freon moves in it? Will I be able to remove old oil/debris doing so? Everyone says something different about the direction the evaporator should be flushed, that why I ask. It’s my first time fully servicing an a/c system, but I’m not afraid to do it, provided I have the knowledge for doing it correctly, the tools and following the vehicle service manual with all its specs. Btw, really appreciate your time and video, it’s very helpful.
@@Mike_44 so long as you’re not trying to flush particulate matter from a burn out that might’ve backwashed into the evaporator or a blow out of the filter pad on the desiccant material leaving desiccant grit inside the evaporator in that case, you would not be flushing out the evaporator
But in your case, you have a clean system that only has oil in the evaporator if I’m correct, so you can flush forwards or backwards working both if you please
Because you’re only flushing out a liquid oil mixing with your AC solvent flush
So, in this case, it really makes no difference whether you go forward or backwards
Because you’re just in injecting a flash that will turn into a solution in mix with the refrigerant oil in the system and carry it out
And then you will be blowing it out, theoretically buy the book the correct way with dry nitrogen
But I know most people don’t have that, so they will be using Shop compressed air
That’s why I always tell people doing it themselves at home to leave it on the vacuum pump for 24 hours or at least overnight because when using Shop compressed air you are also injecting a lot of water in the form of vapor
You’re super cool website is telling you to inject into the Evaporator, but you have no method of injecting into the Evaporator because you’re low side service fitting is located in the wrong side of the evaporator. The direction of the Refrigerant is going towards the compressor at that point.
Now if you had a syringe and before you installed the expansion valve.
You would inject with a syringe in the opening of the small port
Your 4 ounces of oil . Now all that oil would have to make its way through all the Pratt passages throughout the evaporator before exiting to the section port, towards its travel to the compressor.
This means you have roughly somewhere in the neighborhood I think of 1.2 ounces or 1.3 ounces of oil inside the compressor I just looked up but 05 Subaru outback limited model and I see the total system oil capacity is 5.2 ounces.
What are the most important things is to make sure you’re thoroughly blowout all the Refrigerant flushing solvent to make sure there is none left inside the system
And this is very important, because any left inside the system will dilute down and thin out your refrigerant oil
And that’s another reason when somebody is using a flushing solvent in combination with shop compressed air because it has a low boiling point it evaporates very easily. I tell do it yourself people to leave the vacuum pump on overnight to thoroughly make sure you have boiled off all the solvent that might have been trapped or left inside the system .
sir, nice vedio. i have a question. my Mitsubishi triton 2012 model. i change a condenser due to high pressure. then i flush the whole system. except the compressor. but i already changed the oil of compressor. my question is HOW MUCH OIL I PUT in the system. i put oil in the suction 120ml. it is right amount of oil sir. thanks hopefully you read my messages to you. thanks again.
I have never heard of that model Mitsubishi. You must be in another country where they don’t sell that car here in the United States.. Mitsubishi is very rare where I live in San Francisco, California. I might work on one Mitsubishi in two years is how rare Mitsubishi is here.
Fantastic! This is exactly what I need. I have been searching for days and days, just want to find the correct answer. My old compressor has exact the same problem: no oil at all when draining. There are two numbers in my repair instruction (WIS document): "Refrigerant compressor filling quantity: 110ml" and "Additional oil filling quantity after replacing refrigerant compressor: 20ml", plus "10ml" for the dryer. The new compressor has nothing in Hi/low ports, but did have oil after unscrewing oil drain plug. I have searched a lot. Many people used 110ml when filling their Denso compressor, but like what you mentioned in your video, I thought that's the amount oil for whole system. So, based what you suggested, if I just want to replace compressor and dryer, I should drain all the oil out, then add 20ml (additional oil for replacing compressor) + 10ml (additional oil for replacing dryer)? And nothing more? Would you please confirm this for me? Thanks a lot!
It depends on how much oil comes out of the old compressor. .
No oil comes out of the old compressor that means nearly all the oil unless it leaked out from my big rupture that means all the oil is stuck up in the evaporator.
For example if you drained out 60 mL oil from the old compressor then you would put back in 60+ milliliters a little bit more you don’t have to worry if it’s 70 mL or the little bit of oil you did not get out of the compressor that is stuck inside
And then example 10 mL plus for the receiver dryer you are changing.
Different vehicles have different quantities of oil some may have 110 g (3.85oz). That’s the complete vehicle oil charge
Other DENSO systems may have 199g (7oz). On the bigger systems like a van with dual evaporators.
Oil charge quantity is based off the vehicles AC design system not off the compressor alone.
@@coldfinger459sub0 Thank you! In my case, there is no oil come out. And system seems holding vacuum. I have been confused for a long time, where those oil has been to? Now I got the answer. By the way, I am not sure whether the oil leaked out or not, since the system seems sealed, is there anyway to tell whether the system is low on oil ? Thanks!
@@cztexas if you did not see a big oil stain shiny way to oil dust accumulation around any of the fittings or hoses or a leaking compressor for a shaft seal that sprayed out the oil in a circular motion around the spinning pulley then all the oil is still inside the system.
Only the vapor refrigerant slowly leak out without carrying any oil along with it
@@coldfinger459sub0 Thank you. Wonderful! This make my mind peace. Thank you so much for answering my questions. Subbed to your channel!
Hello sir!
If we replace a new compressor new condenser new dryer new expansion valve and flush the evaporator and ac lines and all of this because the compressor has sized/destroyed etc...and when we check for capacity of oil at autodata or HaynesPro etc and say 100ml oil as the sticker on the old compressor and the new compressor same brand but different model because the same is not available anymore and the sticker on the new compressor says 160ml for example which capacity of the 2 we choose? 100ml or 160ml??? And if we flush the components and change dryer expansion valve condenser or flush condenser all the amount of oil manufacturer recommends we put it all into the compressor and then the system shares from its one with the ac cycle operation to the other components?we are done??
I hope for a soon answer!!
Best regards!
This could be easy or this can be difficult depends on the design of the new compressor
I’m not 100% sure because I don’t know exactly what model it is different compressor
Example one
If the compressor model type and chassis case are all exactly the same.
But the only thing that has changed is the displacement cc capacity
Then you can use the smaller amount of oil may be an extra 30 mL and he will be safe extra.
Example number two difference
If it is a completely different compressor model for example
The original compressor did not have a oil sump pump reservoir built into the compressor.
But your new compressor model has a larger some pump oil displacement reservoir located in the compressor then I would use the higher oil level.
Remember some compressor manufactures builder compressors with no sump oil reservoir.
Some compressor models are built with a reservoir to capture and hold oil with inside the case of the compressor.
Try to see if you could go to the compressor manufacturer website and look up all the data for the construction of the two different model compressors.
@@coldfinger459sub0 thank you sir for your fast response!!yes I mean the difference of cc same type same all...very nice!!and when we replace compressor condenser expansion valve and flush all the other part we put all the amount of oil into the compressor?Best regards!!
@@coldfinger459sub0 and something else I want to ask you sir .as you say if we see no oil to the compressor only few drops and no signs of leakage somewhere the oil is on the evaporator for the reason of low refrigerant and many people add again the oil capacity and double the oil and problems begins. So when we see no oil at the compressor we put the new compressor with no oil at all empty?or we put some ml of oil for the starting point and time needs the old oil to return from evaporator to the compressor?dry isn't litte scary??
@@giorkar2116 with a empty compressor you must put some oil in to start up.
I rather have 30 mL too much oil than 30 mL to little oil.
But then you don’t truly know if there is no oil in the compressor of the old one it’s because the person who worked on it before you removed the compressor replaced it and did not put in any oil.
This is a problem when you come behind somebody else’s work you don’t know what they did.
When you’re lucky and the compressor is still working but it only has a very slow leak like from a front shaft seal or a gasket on the compressor housing shell.
But you’re going to replace it because of the leak you can completely charge of the system with refrigerant
Run the system for about 15 or 20 minutes with all the windows and doors open on fresh air mode.
Raise engine RPMs to about 1200 RPMs to 1500 RPMs
And let it run for 15 or 20 minutes.
Then you turn the system off let it sit for 30 minutes
Then very very very slowly slowly remove recover the refrigerant from the low suction line service port.
( Must be vary slowly) so you do not force the refrigerant to move and pull oil to one side of the system the idea is to keep all the oil in place in all the components because you have just performed a oil balance throughout the system by operating the system under a heavy load over the evaporator.
Now when you remove the old compressor it will have the system balanced oil quantity distributed throughout the system and the compressor will have the amount of oil that would normally be in it in a full refrigerant mode.
Then you can correctly perform your oil balance with the new compressor.
But if you have a burnt up compressor or compressive that does not operate you are unlucky and you cannot reform this procedure
@@coldfinger459sub0 God bless you !!you share your knowledge with us and help us to become better without exchange!!! Thank you very much!!!four days now when I have time I see one by one all your videos and I have learn many things also than we believe we know but we know almost wrong!! I see you use very often the analyzer .can you share with us please knowledge about your results of analyzer what is your steps you start with some examples?if it is not 100% pure r134a or hfo1234yf?what does it mean with air?or hydrocarb what is the symptoms?only to poison your tank with refrigerant or have affect to the ac cycle etc?
So because we don’t know how much we need to add oil, we have to change every part in the AC and flush it, and do like it something similar to engine overhaul just because we cannot tell how much we need for this particular compressor. That’s a lot of work that’s not good.
It all depends on the situation
If the compressor is being replaced Just because it has a small leak in the case, seal or a front shaft seal.
Then you have the capability of recharging the system 100% refrigerant, letting it run for 15 or 20 minutes at a higher RPM with all the doors and windows open under full load Fresh Air mode. This will distribute the oil throughout the entire system equally. .
Then, after this procedure, you can perform a refrigerant recovery, and then measure the oil out of compressor compared to the manufacturer specification for the amount of oil that belongs in the compressor after the procedure, and then balance it
If the compressor is an absolute burn out with metal flake, you’re tearing apart the whole entire system replacing the expansion valve in your flushing all the components that can be flushed and replacing all components that should be flushed
If you’re doing anything else, there’s no guarantee there’s no warranty at all whatsoever that’s just work and it’s gambling anybody who wants to gamble that’s their own personal choices but when things go wrong, they cannot blame anybody but themselves .
Locate the proper instructions, procedures, and specifications and then there’s those who do not .
There’s no reason in today’s society with all the information at our fingertips not to know .
Every specification, every procedure is written down in paper
For those who refused to go for training to classes that is their own fault they did that intentionally
For those who live in locations around the world where there is no education and isolated from large cities or training facilities, then there’s a thing called Google .
That can take you to manufacturer websites of the components or the manufacturer the vehicle from there it’s up to their own ability to trace down the information .
If the person gives up quickly, that is their own fault for being lazy that’s intentional
For those individuals who work at it, don’t give up and keep sourcing, and going through the pages and line items to find the information are the ones who succeeded and get ahead of everybody everybody else, and become profitable in this business is easy and simple
For those who do not seek information and things don’t work out so well they have nobody to blame but themselves .
This is a driven trade, especially nowadays on the more modern cars .
I try to put as much information out there and little little bits and pieces so I at least opened the eyes so some people will question what they have been doing or have been taught by others to seek the proper information .
Every year make model vehicle slightly different. There’s no way do everything all in one video. .