Ford F-150 Lightning - An Electric Truck A Builder Would ACTUALLY Buy?
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- A Builder's Take on the Ford F-150 Lightning - an electric truck with some pretty cool features! Get ready for International Builders' Show content everyday of the week next week where we'll visit our favorite building material booths and see some friends from the Build Show Network.
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This just shows how much education the general public needs on EVs. Folks have no idea the opportunities platforms like this will offer. I love on the coast and have solar tied to backup batteries and drive electric, it’s fantastic.
And extremely expensive
@@Blkgoat Not really, especially if you consider the cost per mile is about half with all this flexibility. Solar+EV is cheaper..always, you just have to get away from the "up front" cost mentality.
@@kentrombatore4070 i have no problem with the up front cost I install solar but I always give my customers the whole truth when they are considering anything solar, battery, wind, etc so they can make an informed decision
I the past few year...and even now with slightly higher rates, a refi is low cost and fixed rate. If the cost of the loan every month it less that the cost to the power company/gasoline, payback is month one. It's a different way of thinking about money.
@@kentrombatore4070 Toyota Camry is $25K and a Model 3 price from the website states $46K being a variance of $21K. With a current national average gallon of gas costing $3.529, Camry 31 combined mpg, and "free solar" electricity you would have to drive 184,471 miles before fuel savings actually are a net savings excluding other operational costs.
Even though the maintenance costs will be undeniably higher on a gasoline vehicle you have to factor in higher insurance premiums / property taxes on a higher value vehicle, and many states adopting some form of EV or high mpg surcharge for registration to fund road maintenance. A situational variable that can be a significant shocker older homes necessitating breaker panel upgrade where my aunt spent $5K to upgrade to even be capable of accommodating her Tesla charger. Which the later would add 43,921 miles to truly breakeven to begin truly saving money.
Keep in mind average car is kept for 11.9 years X 12K miles per year = 142,800 miles driven. So based upon historical trends they will never save money even if charging for free in my example of the best selling gasser and best selling EV of the same size category.
I had IBS too last week! Unfortunately mine isn’t the International Builders Show.
Can you imagine a fleet of work vans you power off of your shops solar?? Holy cow. Your no longer have to worried about gas prices at ALL and its doubles as your generator when you dont have the temp yet? This is a big of a change as LED is for the electrical industry.
Awesome to hear your comments Matt! I'm a battery engineer with Ford and a long-time fan of The Build Show. I hope to see a Lightning with the Risinger logo on it in the future!
i agree with mat ford does need to make a special SVT edition single cab short box think the 2002-06 lighting's mostly for purists/race enthusiasts as most people i know think 💭of the 2000's ford lighting's when you say that word and have friends that love them
personally im a single cab 8 to 10FT bed guy aka nicer work trucks but my old man is close enough to retirement/needs a new car that he's considering the 4-door and short box in blue aka looks like a truck but is a luxury barge but ford really needs to put more on local dealership's lots as we as a family test drive are car's before buying them so if ones not on the lot were probably not going to buy it site unseen from the internet/add's
one of these days it would be nice if the trailer had access to the F150's battery packaging for powering things on the go @ 80MPH ( thanks for the pugs/VTG like 👍the idea of not needing to buy/drag a generation and gasoline to go with it on camping trips or short work trips/job-site and not needing to make 5 different trips home for a charged up fresh tool battery ect. saves me time and cash $ ) and or driving the wheel's/ABS/regeneration and putting power backwards into the pack using solar on the trailers roof IE-2car-haller covered 6-10FT wide by 16-25FT long or genset 240V SP* in the trailer for extra mileage and math wise the larger the flat roof the more solar can be installed aka more power for the motor's/battery pack, i would be nice if refrigerated simi-trucks ( not sure if fords still in the simi or class 6 and up truck game or not but i have driven 20K+ ford trucks so i know that they did build/sell some at least in the past and were ok QC or at least the ones i was in ) used solar roofs and battery's to drive the systems and feed the trailers wheel's and was bi-directional with the cab for power as i don't feel the need for 3-separate engines/EPA emission's controls and 2 different diesel tanks and the back one is unmonitored-dashboard/ECU wise plus some other parts/bits and makes it harder to use safely
Good luck getting your hands on one! They've allocated all their pro and xlt trim. So now you are in the $72k range starting
And you know the majority of their production was for the top of the line most expensive versions, sorry but I don't see a prudent construction worker running out to spend $70,000 thousand dollars on an electric pickup truck to take to job sites.
"So you have no motor now, its all electric" Sigh, it has a motor now, it had an engine prior, and now it has a motor.
Technically you can call it a motor or an engine for either.
definition of engine:"a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion."
definition of motor:"a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts."
Actually it has two electric motors, one in the rear to drive both rear wheels and another one up front driving the two front wheels. My understanding is that all of the F-150 Lightning versions come standard with 4-wheel drive.
This truck is awesome. Love that i can roll up anywhere and use all my tools without a loud generator, smells, oil changes, maintainance, awesome.
And the frunk is a premade locked toolstorage box, just perfect.
One thing that might make it worth the effort is you never have to get up in the morning and know that you have to stop for gas, just pull in after work plug in your truck and not worry " or " do you worry about your high electric bill how much extra power to charge that beast versus the gas station or diesel pump.
Can anyone answer this question and it's a serious question I'd really like to know because it may make sense for me to purchase one when it's more available.
Thanks for any assistance 😀
the electricity used is much lower than the cost of the gas/diesel so this should not be a concern. This is especially true since the electrical rates are lower during offpeak hours(when most will charge) usually
Re: "do you worry about your high electric bill how much extra power to charge that beast versus the gas station or diesel pump"
I'll use Texas as an example, and I'll even fudge numbers slightly to favor the diesel version:
Electricity is ~12¢ per kWh, and suppose the full 98 kWh batter for the 230 mile range version only goes 200 miles. Then driving 100,000 miles over several years in the F-150 Lightning will cost ~$5,880.
For comparison, diesel in Texas is an average of about $3.20 and a regular F-150 gets ~25mpg, so driving 100,000 miles in the non-electric F-150 will cost ~$12,800.
The fudging:
- Average electricity price is actually 11.5¢ per kWh in Texas.
- Average diesel price is actually $3.22 in Texas.
- I don't think the 200 miles is much fudging either way, because (1) the battery will degrade a little and (2) charging isn't a perfectly efficient process. Regarding #1, note that the battery should have no meaningful issues for at least 200,000 miles, and as many EV owners can attest, probably much longer.
Other considerations that come to mind:
- Vehicle maintenance costs: My understanding is that EVs tend to have lower maintenance costs than internal combustion engine vehicles.
- Time to "refill": The obvious downside of an EV is of course that it takes more time to recharge than it does to fill up a fuel tank.
- Locations to "refill": There are more fuel stations than charging locations, though I wouldn't be surprised if things were closer to parity in 5-10 years ... EV infrastructure will only get better, while gas infrastructure will probably only get worse as the fraction of vehicles that are powered by gas/diesel declines.
Good luck with your vehicle shopping!
@@dosadoodle excellent post
@@sanisidrocr Thank you for answering my questions I may think about one when they become more available
@@dosadoodle thanks for giving me a more broke down, cost comparison
I appreciate your feedback thanks
I'll be honest, when I first saw the Tesla truck too, I hated it but the look has kind of grown on me!
Same-ish, I didn't know how I felt, but the specs sold me and now I associate the weird looks with incredible features/performance/specs.
@@eh_bailey It’s the best value of all EV trucks. I think both the Rivian R1T and Ford Lightning have their market and will do well.
Only problem is that “spaceship” truck that you don’t name actually has a lot of what u referred to as working man features that the f150 doesn’t touch. If ur really a working man don’t you want a truck that won’t ever rust, and you never worry about scratches on the paint job? Of course Only time will tell once it comes out and gets put to the test, but perhaps many a working man will look past the non-traditional styling of “it doesn’t look like a truck” if it functions so well
Cybertruck hasnt come out and is still at least 1-2 years away. Tesla Has lost its chance to obtain any marketshare with the Cybertruck with the delays its had. Sadly i think it may end up getting cancelled in the ened since there just wont be as much demand with Rivian, Ford, and others that are actually making the cars and delivering them now.
@@ShimejiiGaming Perhaps you don't know the numbers, but you are misled by the propaganda.
Ford will make 40k of these in 2022. Hopefully. Sure, they declare 160k - but in capacity, not production - in 2023-4. Then Rivian - they delivered some cars to employees. And have a lot of problems with any ramp up of real production. And they have no capacity this year. So, how many truck will be sold at the end of 2022? 50k? And the market for trucks is what? 4 million? How fast Tesla ramps production from one factory in a year? About 400k. So, at the end of 2023 CT will ramp to 400k. And F150 will jump from 40k to what? 80k?
We are talking about years of high sales of trucks to replace ICE. The winner will be visible in 2025 - and the one with the most capacity.
@@AndrewSienx that is a good point. I will be surprised to see 50k for the industry by the end of 22. That being said, Tesla has lost a little of the element of surprise, but I think they will get capacity in order faster. Definitely, fun to watch.
I really like the space ship.
Is he talking about the cyber truck or the E-silverado?
@@TheKingOfInappropriateComments good question. I like the cybertruck.
Well - it is the plain old truck with changed motor and battery added. The interesting is Cybertruck.
@@TheKingOfInappropriateComments haha true! The terrible Avalanche, rising from the grave!
Did Matt just pretend like he needed a 6.5’ truck bed? Dude probably hasn’t loaded lumber in the last 3 years.
Welcome to 99.99% of truck owners.
“Hey don’t put anything in the bed you’re gonna scratch it! Tell Jose to use his truck for the parts run.”
I wouldnt get one for personal use yet, but I would want an electric work van just for the generator option for jobsite and powering customers fridges and freezers while power is out.
That is a great point! A van would be even better.
Getting a cybertruck. Twice the vehicle and utility for half the price.
Is the cyber truck $20k? Lol.
cybertruck won't start being sold for at least 1.5 more years and even than it will likely be 3 years before you can get one even if you already did preorder
@@sanisidrocr Production starts Q1 2023 but you are right about lead time. Even if half of the reservations cancel, making a reservation today will have a very long wait time. Tesla does however make deliveries in batches and does not always follow reservation order number.
“It looks like a normal truck”… no wonder the building industry has a hard time changing its practices if it’s that hard to even consider driving another vehicle for so many people:)
"The other" truck is Teslas Cybertruck... It's just way too different to attract the large user base.
@@hagbarddenstore I know Matt was referring to the cyber truck but the other guy (forgot his name) said “looks like a normal truck”. A simple reply that says a lot about and also like trucks have to look a particular way to be acceptable to the general public. Musk has a tendency to disrupt mentalities but without Tesla we’d still be thinking that EVs would never be viable just smartphones were a fantasy before apple introduced them in 2007.
That was it, just a simple remark in passing.
@@peteaulit also, when a Cybertruck can deliver double the range, double almost double the power performance (and still in the same price range), and much better durability, "looking like a truck" doesn't matter as much.... One thing I will give Ford is they are showing off the benefits of EVs, whereas Tesla does not spend anything on marketing.
The cyber truck will redefine what it means to look like a truck because of its durability and performance
I think the Cybertruck styling was a misstep. Why alienate a huge part of your target market due to styling? I can't see a majority of existing truck buyers migrating to the Cybertruck, especially if competitive products are coming online.
I hadn’t thought about it before. But the power frunk could be great for all your battery chargers.
The Lightning will be the inflection point for EV awareness & adoption.
Faster, more torque, much cheaper to fuel, more reliable, and more versatile than an internal combustion truck. Potential limitation for some buyers will be range, especially when towing.
More versatile? Nah, youre dreaming. This electric fad will roll back in less than 20 years
@@wtice4632 no way, electric is here to stay & will dominate.
9.6 kW onboard & the ability to intellgently power your home (via direct integration) provides versatility that ICE cannot.
@@wtice4632 lol. U live in a cave. I drive a 6.7 diesel 350 and would LOVE to own a lighting. This is a game changer
@@skylerwilliams does it somehow pruduce its own electricity like an ICE can? So im going to charge it in my garage from the grid but its cool cause it can reverse that? Thats a huge nothingburger.
@@wtice4632 Fun fact: Every Tesla lap record on the Nurbergring is beaten by various years of Honda Civic Type Rs being half the cost of "performance Tesla's" that got beaten.
Dang, i don’t even own a pickup…. but this is frigging tempting. Also if you’re going to hook up your trailer this would be a weekend camping monster as well. Lots to think about here
Towing is going to significantly cut down your range fyi.
Ford need to have an option for a bench seat especially for the pro model and get rid of the goofy folding shifter. I could deal with the short bed but I wish they would have a 6.5 option
A 6.5ft bed will probably come later. Ford needs the first version of the Lightning to appeal to the largest group of truck buyers.
Let me throw 2 ton of sand in my dump trailer and see if it a real work truck. I sure it will be a great truck for the guy that carries a few sets of plans and maybe a couple of 2x4s
For what it's worth- it's all wheel drive and heavier than a "normal" F150, so I would think it would be *better* at handling a trailer. BUT pulling a trailer will really reduce its range. So maybe better for typical local use, probably not a good choice for pulling a trailer long distances on the interstate.
@@christalbert722 my 22 Tesla MY Long Range Dual motor weighs just of 5k pounds or as i call her THICK. The Rivian R1T weighs over 7,100 pounds or as i call it HEFTY. I expect the F150 to be close to 10k pounds or one would say OBESE.
Joking aside my MY has a 3k tow capacity and i have a small trailer I tow locally with it. I often forget I’m towing anything because I don’t notice any difference with the trailer hooked up.
Which is the majority of people who buy em. Most truci owners barely use its potential. Lightning is not a hauling truck for heavy commercial users.
I'm curious on range when hauling heavier loads.
It will be quite interesting to see once they hit the roads. The stated range is with 1k lb of cargo tho, so hopefully it will meet most people's expectations.
Good for in town
TFL did a towing review of the Rivian truck. Worth checking out.
For hauling, EV is not recommended (yet). Because EV is very efficient, they lose a lot kore range under heavy load.
This car is for contractors who put a few tools into the truck and a few building materials, and go to a nearby jobsite, and maybe a couple of runs to the Home Depot. And for dads who just like big cars but only use it to drive the kids to school, and maybe sometimes visit HD for some DIY project.
But these people cover like 90% of pickup truck buyers…
Heavy loads and frequent long distance driving are the last areas where EV will take over 10-20 years from now.
@@juzoli you mean city inspectors pretending to be contractors 😂, im scared because as a contractor myself electric sounds nice but it wont keep up with me and my work
I have a reservation to order one. I'm sure one day they'll have some with a longer box but gotta start somewhere.
I'm thinking about it too. My reservation is that it probably won't go 300 miles with AC or with my lead foot. Plus the battery loses its overall power as the years go by. Wish I could drive one for a month or so and really see how it is.
@@jwristen24 Lots of videos of other EVs dispelling those concerns. And as someone who has never gotten anywhere close to EPA fuel economy estimates, I really use my own estimate of what range to be expected. So no, I wouldn't expect 230 miles of range under typical driving conditions but that isn't needed for me most of the time. It's still early. If you want to go on a long road trip renting a gas car probably makes more sense anyway.
@@TheKingOfInappropriateComments well they say the upgraded version gets 300 miles. I'd like to know charge time and how it does towing. I know it has the torque but how does that effect milage. What about extreme cold weather? How does that effect it?
@@jwristen24 Lots of videos have covered those concerns. Someone even does some light class 1 towing with a model 3 tesla. Of course we'll have to see what happens in the real world but I highly doubt Ford and GM would both pledge to migrate entirely to EV if they couldn't tow with them and if they weren't any good in cold climates. And if there are a number of fully electric tractor trailers so obviously they can tow.
As for the charging rate, that depends on what you're charging it with. If you're someone like me who has a short commute you might even be able to just plug it into an ordinary 120v outlet and let it charge at a rate of 2-3 miles an hour. But if you're on the road you can plug it into a DC fast charger and get to 80% charged in around 15 minutes. And there are numerous chargers in between a 120v receptacle and a DC fast charger.
Every time the oil companies raise their prices it accelerates the ROI for renewables, hybrid & electric vehicles! Solar has never been cheaper & now our cars are battery backups ‼️
Answering a few common questions about batteries, fueling, and costs:
*How long until the battery dies?*
Lithium ion batteries typically last over 1000 cycles. Also, if the battery is 50% and is charged to 75%, that only counts as 0.25 cycles.
So the battery on the 230 mile range version should last ~200,000 miles (after accounting for ~15% battery degradation over time). If getting the 300 mile range version, then probably well past 250,000 miles.
*How much will a replacement battery cost?*
Manufacturing cost of batteries is currently just a bit over $100 per kWh, so the 230 mile range version with its 98 kWh battery would be about $10k. Perhaps that will be the rough replacement cost after prices continue to decline over the next decade. Also, keep in mind the battery doesn't simply stop right at 1000 cycles but rather tends to just perform worse. So the battery might still be usable for the full life of the vehicle. Also, for an apples-to-apples comparison, keep in mind many ICE trucks require a bunch of work to reach 200,000 or 250,000 miles, and electric engines typically require less maintenance.
*What are the relative fuel costs?
If electricity is $0.15 per kWh (~30% above national average), then driving 200,000 miles in the F-150 Lightning will cost ~$15,000 over 1000 charges.
For comparison, if fuel for an ICE F-150 that gets ~25mpg is $3 per gallon, then driving 200,000 miles in the ICE F-150 will cost ~$24,000.
1000 cycles/200,000 miles is probably very close to the maximum lifespan of the battery. Thermal cycling and weather conditions wont help lifespan.
@@redjellonian8126 EV batteries have active cooling system's to manage battery temperature.
I've put 178,000 miles on my 2015 Tesla Model S 80 and battery pack capacity is down about 7%. I think 200,000 miles in the F-150 is a low estimate. There are 500,000 mile Teslas out there with 80% even 85% battery capacity remaining.
Applying run of the mill lithium ion statistics to batteries like these that have cutting edge materials, thermal management, and software control is a mistake. EV batteries have the ability to last for 1,500-2,000 cycles. How hard you work the vehicle (battery discharge rate and heat) plays a big role in that.
@@jpe1 So if Ford is able to get their 2022 batteries to be at parity with Tesla 2015 batteries (even if not guaranteed, it seems likely), then meaningful battery degradation concerns are put to rest even for extremely high mileage vehicles. Thank you for sharing!
BTW, that's also an interesting piece of knowledge when thinking about dedicated battery backup in a home. It sounds like 2,000 cycles at 80%+ capacity ultimately means solar + off-grid costs are lower than I typically have calculated when thinking about amortized pricing in this regard. I'll definitely keep this in mind going forward.
Loving the EV movement, it's about time. For practical reasons, it will be hard to pass up on the Tesla Cybertruck. Stainless steel=no rust. Superior battery efficiency, R&D, and probably 2/3 the cost for what you get. Plus dealerships are gouging consumers which is not possible with Tesla's business model. The vehicle technology in Tesla's are unmatched, and rapidly evolving. The appearance of the cybertruck is clearly polarizing but the practicality will be insane. Hats off to Ford, love seeing their commitment to innovation. I hope they can increase their pace of innovation.
One of the big problems with Tesla vehicles right now is that if you need parts/service for any reason you are waiting MONTHS to get into a dealer and MONTHS for parts. I was looking at getting a model 3 and hearing some horror stories made me change my mind. Electrics don't need as much maintenance (fingers crossed) but if you get into an accident or have any issues it's a big deal.
@@creepingcharly I hit a deer three weeks after taking ownership. Total time in the shop was 5 weeks. More service centers and authorized body shops are becoming available. In my area there is one Tesla Service Center with another on under construction and 2 authorized body shops. Your experience will vary depending on where you live. There are so many benefits to owning a Tesla that the valid concern of service is out weighted.
On the other hand, with Ford you get more reliable customer service and the ability to purchase replacement parts and get repairs done at 3rd party garages. Plus the Lightning is coming out this month and the Cybertruck was pushed back to 2023.
5.5 foot bed is an absolute non-starter for me. 6.5 is where I want it.... I'd SERIOUSLY consider buying one... what would make it a go is 400+ mile range
Just have a gasser and 400 mile range isnt an issue
CyberTruck has both wish list items, and it won’t rust.
@@cybertrk Cool story bro, the Tesls Semi and Cyber truck were suppose to already be in production and delivered by now.
@@Cerberus984 Unlike other manufacturers tesla isn't starting production till they can actually mass produce them. Covid set them back almost two years. Ford is going to make so few that the dealers are going to mark them up 50000 dollars. Cyber truck will be the best value for money. I have three on order.
@@Cerberus984 waiting for awesome things is hard
Pro model is very reasonably priced from $40k to $45k with good options. Xlt jumps way up in cost just to get some more power. Dont expect to drive 500 miles a day regularly but for around town this is a great start. Looks awesome too. Ford's in the game
Even for trips this isnt bad. If you take a 30 minute lunch and two 15 minute pee breaks you can do over 600 miles by dinner time
Perfect truck for quickly rising gas prices
I wonder how many Milwaukee packouts will fit in the front-trunk. That is huge selling point for me as a landlord who needs tools for all different contractor types in the truck at all time. I have so many duplicate tools from heading to houses thinking I would do electric work and then tenant tells me about a plumbing issue.
Matt, how could you not like the Cybertruck? It’s literally bullet proof. Don’t builders want something that is actually tough?
They want to look at their truck and remember their father and grandfather.
Younger kids will convince their dads to get the super cool cybertruck and new memories and norms will be made.
It is hard to like what is currently...not in production. One of these days the Cybertruck will get built, but Musk is notorious for pushing back production schedules. He says 2023...it could easily be 2024 or 2025.
And of course, the Cybertruck styling is love it or hate it...personally I think it looks like hot garbage as does Matt apparently.
Truck buyers are very brand loyal too. I'll never buy a truck that isn't made my Toyota...while true they don't make an EV truck, my Tundra is so reliable that by the time I wears it out, Toyota will have an EV Tundra as reliable as all of their other cars. Even if they don't, I'd rather have the Ford EV truck with a local dealer that can service it quickly.
@@gage5650 Servicing my Model 3 is a breeze. I make an appointment in my app and then they come to me and fix my car in my driveway. I only needed this once in the 4 years I’ve owned it, but it was fantastic.
"IBS" is not a very good name for any trade show. The initialism is more well known as "irritable bowel syndrome".
There really does need to be a F250 Thunder Hybrid, with a big battery, range extender configured for Job Site power where you could build a house off of it.
Also because EV trucks can barely go 100 miles on a charge when towing
@@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444 exactly
@@davidblalock9945 I became a hybrid owner in the last year and I was surprised that it made me feel "who needs EVs when you have this?" There is an F150 hybrid now, Scotty Kilmer did a video driving it and the owner was getting 36mpg. When a vehicle's gas mileage gets good enough, the fuel cost savings with switching to electric becomes negligible.
@@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444 I doubt any claim of 36mpg in an F150 Hybrid. My Powerboost averages 18-22mpg with tools and minor payload.
Summer gas mix helps, but there's no way to see an 80% decrease in fuel consumption.
Not sure if I missed it, but Thunder is a great name.
It's the most practical EV truck so far. Still, i think in most instances the Ford hybrid pickup is a better choice for flexibility. Optioned correctly it can supply the same Kwh & maintain capacity by running the engine when needed.
Murphy's law says that the power will go out at your house when you come home after depleting the battery on your truck all day, not when your ev truck is conveniently full after a nights charge. With the hybrid you can refuel & power the house for days.
I would say the opposite, the ev can keep my home running for a week after power is out by a hurricane, or texas deep freeze last year, which is freaking incredible
Somehow, it’ll still have cam phaser and timing chain issues….
i want a Rivian electric truck before this Ford. but the Atlis electric will be out next year hopefully and it will be the truck that has and 8 foot bed and 3/4 and 1ton models
Two downsides to the Rivian: it's double the price of the f150 and it's not a full size truck.
I'm a huge Tesla fan, but I think this will be the most important EV in America. Already the best selling vehicle, hopefully the electric version produces great results in the real world!
It could be if Ford can produce in volume the car. Right now Tesla is outselling the Big-3 combined in the US for plug-in-car sales. Ford needs to be ready to produce this truck at the rate of hundreds of thousands a year. Not tens of thousands a year.
Your IBS WAS packed !
You hit a major point that may be a sore spot for Ford or for sales people. The 5.5' bed.
I ended up with a Platinum Powerboost with the 6.5' bed and I have the same utility out of the power package in the bed. I power tools, and lights, and even a heater in a tent. The only major disadvantage the lightning has though is range. My Powerboost can fuel up and make a cross country trip towing a boat in short order. Trying that with a Lightning would eat up all of your vacation time lol.
I know this is an introduction for Ford and I'm very excited to see future iterations of the model. For me though, it's a local/city truck.
The other one doesn’t have paint as well. So pretty good for a work truck. Lol
If i was taking a trip couldn't I just toss a generator in the back to charge on the go?
Ford was stating a minimum 320 amp service service to back feed, which would precludes most American homes. BUT apparently that requirement has disappeared from the website, it really needs some clarification.
That "requirement" was removed from the website because it wasn't a requirement at all.
Only requirement is an AC circuit suitable for charging. 100A circuit for 80A charging is optimal, but the charger can be set to work on smaller amperage circuits as well.
To power the house, it actually uses a separate circuit that comes out of the truck DC & to their "Home Integration" inverter.
@Jack Brooks the Ford program manager for the F-150 Lightning Intelligent Backup Power system was interviewed in the past few weeks on the InsideEVs US CZcams channel in the video titled "Q&A With Ford About Its F-150 Lightning Intelligent Backup Power", where he explains how that 320 number got "calculated" in error and they have since corrected that info.
That was listed based on the idea that one config the would allow the truck to feed to panel at same time panel was hooked up to power company power like a tesla power wall. in that config more then 200 amps could go through bus bar of 200 amp panel.
@@1personalt Interesting, do you have a reference to that fact?
@@jack_brooks Mostly the NEC national electric code. You don't ever need 320 amp service but in two non-common cases you might need a bigger panel then 200 amp. I think part of the 320 amp confusion has to do with Sun Run Solar being a partner. But starting at beginning, - just to charge - ruiring a service larger then 200 makes no sense since max power from utility needed to charge battery is 80 amps and the 200 amp main breaker you have 120 amps left for house. If you exceed 200 amps the main breaker will take care of you. Using the truck as a backup power when ulitity power it out also wouldn't cause you need a bigger service (or circuit panel) as the total power coming in is now maxed at 80 amp from truck.
So what is this talk about bigger service(which really should have been bigger panel).
Sun Run Solar was/is a partner in this backup system. In a grid tied solar setup (forgetting about the truck for a minute) you can technically overload a 200 amp panel if you had another 60 amps coming in from solar at same time as 200 amps from ulility. In grid tied solar you either need to derate (lower the main breaker) or get a higher rated panel if you have more then 40 amps of solar. Why 40 amps ? Nec does allow solar + utility power to be 120% of the rated capacity of load center(panel) so it is called the 120% rules. If you google 'The 120% Rule: Derating Your Breaker to Make Room For Solar' you can find out more.
If you using grid tied solar with 200 amp from ulitity and dont want to derate the breaker so you can get 80 amps charging at night and still have 120 amps left for house you would need a bigger panel via NEC 705. The second way you would need a bigger panel - If the truck could backfeed the panel and act a Tesla power wall (while ulitity power is on) you would be like grid tied solar as it realtes to NEC 705. If the truck could backfeed more then 40 amps with ulitity power active you would need a bigger panel. However if the home backup only comes on when power from street if off then NEC 707 applies and you dont need a bigger panel.
So this 320 amp was either removed because 1)Solar customer will deal with it has part if the solar requirements 2)The truck cant power house while utility power is active
In my view the Frunk is a negative aspect of the vehicle. There is no engine, so the cab can be pushed forward increasing visibility and reducing wheel base with a 6.5' bed.
98 or 131 kwh battery packs. Hmmm....80 amps of 230 is about 18.4 kw. So about 5 hours from nearly flat to full for the small pack and closer to 7 for the big pack on that home charging. I hate to say it, but when it takes under 10 minutes to fill up a conventional vehicle vs hours on something like this. A google says it takes 41 minutes on a 150kw supercharger to go from 15% to 80%. So 41 minutes to get ~2/3 of the full capacity. EVs are getting better....no doubt. But still kind of niche IMO. As for back powering a house: Ask yourself, do you always keep the propane tank full enough for 3 days, if propane powered? Or if gas powered, do you keep enough 5 gallon blitz cans? Or are direct tied into the nat gas? Most with a generator will keep a dedicated stock of fuel for their desired run time. Now, ask yourself if you're going to come home to a power outage, how much power will you actually have in the vehicle? I guess it opens up the option to trade mobility for power for the home...but then again, I can siphon from my gas powered SUV for my gas powered generator, if needed (although it would have to be a long outage to want to do this - a lot more than 3 days.) Interesting vehicle.....I just can't get over those long "refuel" times.
I agree, I recently went from normal combustion engine to hybrid and it surprisingly made me less interested in eventually owning a pure EV and more a fan of hybrids. If you're getting around 50 mpg which a normal 4 door family sedan can get now, such as the 2022 Toyota Camry hybrid, then your fuel cost savings with going full electric is pretty small, or if you regularly use charging stations, actually costs more.
Do you usually fill up the tank in the middle of the night in your own house? No. You do not. Plugin the truck when you come home and unplug in the morning when you're leaving. Full battery every single day.
Yes Kim, absolutely. And if (1) I only used a vehicle locally, I'd be all over an electric for exactly the reason you cite. My commute is ~40 miles, round trip. Or (2) I could afford 2 vehicles, then I'd use the electric for local commuting and the hybrid SUV I actually drive only for long distance trips (Pacific Northwest to Montana or Phoenix, or Nor Cal, for example are 3 such trips in the last year). One nice thing with the 40 MPG my SUV gets - I can throw a 5 gallon, 200 mile "range extender" in the back or rocket box.
My EV charges in about 15 seconds, that's the plug in time before I go into the house before bed.
Road trips are a bit longer, but honestly, you stop, plug in in the parking lot, use the bathroom, grab some food and watch 15 min of Netflix and you are good to go. On a gas vehicle you park to use the bathroom and get food and the car isn't refueling. Then you move to the filling area and spend another 5-10 min. For most road trip, you are probably stopping every 3-4 hours anyway. I've done trip like this in my EV a bunch of times and it has not been a big issue. That being said, if you are hell bent on 12 hours of driving on the regular with only one or two 5 minute stops, this isn't your vehicle...and that's cool.
Me, I'd love to have a full "tank" every morning, 0-60s in the mid 4s, half the running cost and with the Lightening the equivalent of 10 Tesla power walls of backup power.
@@tokencivilian8507 The two-vehicle option might feel better, but we found it to be more expensive. We looked at these two options:
1) Put $40k into two vehicles ($40k per vehicle). Pay insurance on both, so probably $800 per vehicle, and maintain both. Also, have garage space for both (or incur more vehicle weathering if it sits outside). In the end, save $500 per year in fuel costs by using the more efficient vehicle when possible while adding on a bunch of costs.
2) Put $40k into one vehicle, and invest the other $40k in stocks, where we'd average a $2k+ return each year.
Ultimately, we keep the $40k in #2 as well, but the single vehicle will depreciate a bit faster as it gets more miles on it than each individual vehicle would in #1 (though vehicle age often trumps vehicle miles in terms of depreciation). And in #2, the extra costs of insurance and vehicle storage are also avoided, probably to the tune of about $1500 per year in total.
The math also still works out in a similar way if the vehicle(s) are purchased on credit with a ~5% APR.
The increased savings in #2 can also be used to rent a vehicle at times. For example, if buying an EV as the single vehicle, then we could rent an ICE vehicle for longer road trips, which also avoids putting a ton of miles on the vehicle we do own (a little avoided depreciation/maintenance, but still nice), and we can even rent a vehicle best fit for the purpose of each individual trip.
Matt, don't sacrifice with the new F-150. Buy American, buy Tesla Cybertruck, made in Austin, TEXAS! Coming soon.
Have they confirmed that the Cybertruck will provide power to the grid?
Buy gas
Ugly.
Lol. Its looks so bad tho. At least the lightning looks like a nice truck. I love Elon but that cybertruck belongs in the 1980s
@@Juice1984 yes
Just like mentioned by Matt, the lack of at least a 6.5ft, if not an 8ft, option is really weighing this down for being an EV work truck. This, as is, is more administrative and less onsite working everyday for most builders, in my opinion.
Not sure where you live, but I have a hard time finding an ICE truck with an 8ft bed. Trucks manufacturers seem to be more focused on CITY SLICKERS then people who have trucks for work.
I live in SE Pennsylvania, and it is similar here. I personally just don’t like anything less than an 8ft bed when the tailgate is closed, but that’s based on my experiences. I’ve seen a lot of people make due with a 6.5 just fine, but it limits you so much, again my opinion.
@@Leifflei i agree with you. I have a 2000 F150 w/8ft bed. The truck has over 400k miles and is on it’s last leg (rusted out.) Ive been looking over a year for a work truck (farm use) with an 8ft bed. When i do find one, they are sold before i even respond.
I wonder how fast they will start the recalls on this.
Interesting ,Thank You. I hope that they actually work.
Back-up battery. You can't generate power with an electric truck; you can only use what it has available
Towing and towing capacity could be the Achilles' heel, are theirs towing specifications?
Look up the CZcams channel The Fast lane Trucks. They recently tested the Rivian R1T and its towing capacity. If the F Lightning performs like the R1T, at best the towing range will be around 200-250 miles give or take depending on the weight of the cargo.
i believe its 10k lbs
I just want to know the potential problems it will come with, i like ford but its been the worst manufacturer to deal with for me and everything is expensive times electric makes it worse
Valid. There isn’t much to electric vehicles. The main items are the electric motor(s), drive units and the battery. Ford is just beginning with battery electric vehicles so time will tell.
wish i could get this guy to come to the northa dn build a house to know its properly done
He didn't know about the frunk? Matt just heard about the F150 lightning a week ago.
Does this come in a 4 WD version for off road driving and the beach?
all are 4wd , 2 motor
I want one.
Waiting on the cybertruck.
I agree that it looking like a truck is a win. I do worry about Fords history with electrical problems. They have always been their weakest link. The bodies, ergonomics and V8 engines are usually a solid choice with Ford but this being all electric scares me and would not be something I could work on either.
Good for cities with regular outages
At least in California, the rural areas tend to have more frequent outages than more urban areas. Here in San Francisco, our electricity has been down for about 10 minutes in the last 3 years, while outlying areas that are at greater risk of fire have more regular power outages; those outages are during fire season (which now means about 6 months out of the year) when there are high winds.
Nothing wrong with cybertruck, it's way cheaper and does everything this can do and it has a stainless steel body. Real men buy stainless steel because it's tough. You're a real man, aren't you?
Well... Tesla isn't doing vehicle to home power... Yet. They seem resistant to that so far.
@@CalifLove I could've sworn they already did or at least there was a third party system available. The boys over on Know You Know did few videos on V2G.
It will be at least 3 years before most people on the waiting list get a cybertruck and when they do start shipping they will prioritize the 70k models while ford will start selling their 40k models this year
@@sanisidrocr But at what volume? Fords own goal is to be selling 600,000 electric vehicles globally by 2025. Tesla will be able to produce at least 300,000 Cybertrucks in the US by the end of 2023.
Have you considered to put the new Rheinmetall *Natter* on your F150?
That range though. Worries me.
I did some math.. if you start you tip at 7am if you take a 30 minute lunch and two 15 minute pee breaks you can do over 600 miles by dinner time. Similar to what I would do in a gas truck.
Forcing the frunk closed made me cringe haha
Vote for Matt to get a Tesla truck
Here is what the EV crowd does not want to admit and that is the more work you make an electric motor do the more power it consumes so when you load up one of these electric pickups to work it and or attach a trailer the range is going to be cut drastically, TFL and I am not a fan of TFL, has done two tests where they have towed with electric vehicles the first one a Tesla SUV where TFL had to abandon the Tesla calling back to their home base and have a gas powered vehicle trailered to them and they trailered the Tesla back to their home base and continued their trip in the gas powered vehicle with the trailer they were towing with the Tesla.
The second towing failure with an electric vehicle a Rivian pickup they barely completed the test because the truck went through the battery power so fast while towing the trailer.
These electric vehicles are status symbols and nothing more, most people can't even afford an electric vehicle, oh sure you can find a few cheaper ones but their range is for crap and they are so small that they are not very useful for a family.
I can go 700 miles in my Ram 1500 ecodiesel on a tank of fuel and it only takes me 10 minutes to refuel and I have full range to go another 700 miles, that is 1,400 miles on two tanks of fuel, now lets take your electric F150 it will go about 300 miles on charge so you have to stop and charge at least 4 times to go the same amount of miles and that is only if you let the battery charge up to 100% which will take you hours of sitting and waiting around at a charging station. If you use a fast charger that only gets you to 80% you just lost 20% of your range so instead of going 300 miles you are now held back to just 240 miles meaning you have to stop and charge 5 times with a minimum wait of 40 minutes if you are getting top speed for the charging station. That is giving you the initial charge of 100% for the full 300 mile range before the first recharge.
Hook up a trailer to both and while I might have to stop a total of three times that electric vehicle will have to stop at least 10 times and that is giving it 140 miles between charges so that is being generous so you will have to stop for a minimum of 6.66 hours but even that is wrong because unless you are starting off with a full charge each time you stop the range is going to be even less, likely closer to 100 miles between charges using fast charging stations only getting an 80% charge each time so you will make at least 13 stops meaning you will be sitting around waiting for a charge a total of 8 hours for the same trip mileage verses the ecodiesel's 30 minute total refuel time.
So 30 minutes refuels 3 times over 1,400 miles towing a trailer or 8 hours waiting for fast chargers to go the same 1,400 miles and that assumes you are getting maximum speed from the charging station each time. If you can't locate a fast charger you just added several more hours sitting around waiting for your electric vehicle to charge.
No thanks, I will stick with internal combustion engines.
💪
Sorry but the Canoo Truck is the true builders truck. The lighting is alright for builders but it has nothing on the Canoo.
I agree: Cybertruck is UGLY, but you have to give it a drive once available.
F150 Hybrid is gas powered but can output 7200 watts. And is cheaper than the lighting
If u can find one its a great option
The problem with hybrids is they also have all the downsides of both electric and ICE vehicles. For simplicity and reliability reasons alone I prefer 100% electric
structural steel welding rated?? save hauling a lincoln vantage 400 and just haul around suitcase welder..lol
Problem with EV, if you tow a trailer, 2000 lbs, your range is only 32% of non towing. So your down to about 130 miles. Either charge daily or only do jobs in your town. They need to get range extended, even 300 miles is not far if your working across town.
Citation needed. A typical hit for towing 2000 lbs is more like 15%, so the 300 mile version would get about 250 miles when towing.
@@dosadoodle car and driver have a good article. They actually say it will drop to double digit miles when towing at capacity. Google it.
@@wags99999 Thanks, I've just now looked it up. They are (1) speculating based on a different vehicle's performance and (2) talking about towing 10,000 pounds, not 2,000 pounds.
@@dosadoodle The Fast Lane Truck recently tested a Rivian R1T when towing, the results were not pretty.
@@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444 If you like making vague statements about a truck by a different manufacturer, that's fine, but that doesn't provide much useful to discuss or evaluate here.
Or are you also going to claim that towing 2,000 pounds drops the mileage by 68% when the provided source doesn't even make that claim?
I tow and sit way too long idling in a cold climate for this to even remotely work…
would love to see you review the cybertruck
it's ugly
A great bumper sticker for that car would be "wanna cyber?"
@@AnEvolvingApe I am more concerned with function and capabilities. Don't really care as much what it looks like
It will be at least 3 years before people start seeing these in decent numbers , if ever (we are still waiting on the tesla semi truck too) . Elon has a tendency to overpromise, exaggerate and lie
@@sanisidrocr well I think once 4680 production is sorted they will finally start delivering on those other models. Also last December PepsiCo got their first batch of Tesla semis. So the really issue is being battery constrained
Lightning not lighting
80 amp? Ugh I only ran 6 awg in my garage for the future, already falling behind. Other than the comical short bed, if I had to go electric I’d be ok with this.
Is America building more power plants for all the new electric cars... maybe people can spend more money while waiting for their cars to charge
0-60 in how many seconds? I can not hear it at all, even after replay 10 times
Mid 4s
How long do these batteries last, and how expensive to replace…?
Similar to a gas truck… depends how hard you beat it.
Pack will last probably 10-12 years or so for most people.
With the cost decline of batteries due to new manufacturing and mining, expect a new battery pack to cost $10k and you magically have a new truck ready to do another 300k
Ford invest in Rivian, Ford builds Truck like Rivian.
Great review Matt... now when Ford can go all electric on the F250 with comparable specs to my 6.7L diesel, I'll be interested.
Eventually even now, how many percent of truck owners are buying F250 disesels
Waiting for these to start burning things down down. Gimmick
Still to expensive for me but am hopeful the price will be coming down in a few years
Lol
Cheaper than ICE after rebates, and half the cost per mile.
@@kentrombatore4070 I'm off grid on solar so it would be cheaper than that per mile.
you can use only 2000w/h if your battery should last 3 days
What all are you planning to do, that you can't manage on an average of 2kW per hour? (Actually, its a 98kWh battery pack, so it's only an average of 1.36kW per hour to last a full 72 hours) I have a fully electric house, electric hot water, heat pump, induction cook top, convection oven, 21 ft^3 refrigerator/freezer, I cook at home most meals, *and* I have a Tesla, and even with all that, my typical monthly electric usage is about 850kWh, so an average of like 1.2kW per hour.
So after three days, the truck dies and you need a gas engine to charge it 😂
And then the battery dies somewhere and needs to be towed home
Or get another F150 (Or Silverado EV) to come charge you to get to the next charger.
Or...watch the fuel gauge and fill up when you get low...you know..like every other car...ever.
Like if you’d rather drive a CyberTruck 😎🚀
Waiting impatiently for mine :(
More like backup garbage truck
man, please avoid the cringe bragging about a sign. i've watched your stuff for the past few years; stay humble.
So to charge the truck cost 3 or more days worth of home electricity. I can see the meter spinning right off.
here's the math: usable battery capacity is 98kWh, a typical "low" to "full" charge would be ~80kWh, so if your electric costs $0.20/kWh you are looking at ~$16 for a full charge. Compare that to the cost of diesel for a similar distance of driving, which is (optimistically) 8 gallons, so $32. Electric is half as expensive as diesel. This is all theoretical, but I can say that real-world, my 2015 Tesla Model S costs me 1/3 in electric vs what I had been spending on gas for my Lotus for the same driving.
@@jpe1 im talkin down the road when the Electric companies need to upgrade the infrastructure so then they charge more that will make for a higher bill for all your electric usage.
@@jpe1 How many MPG did the Lotus get? Personally I compare the cost of EV charging versus the cost of fueling a hybrid, and a handful of those are getting around 50 MPG these days. So the cost savings of going electric versus driving a hybrid is pretty small.
@@readtherealanthonyfaucibyr6444 Hybrids still are not as efficient as battery electric vehicles. My Model 3 has 134MPGe.
@@rovinruss4770 Maybe however electric vehicle owners are more likely to install solar panels and stationary storage. The energy industry will see as much disruption as the automotive industry is.
I would happily take a spaceship over a Ford truck any day
😭
Less Efficient than the GM Chevy Silverado EV and slower too.
Less Efficient than the GM Chevy Silverado and Ford F-150 Lightning and both are slower/shorter range than the Tesla Cybertruck . . . Just saying ! ! !
@@johnvana1207 No Tesla Cyber Truck and 3-4 years. So do equate...
@@johnvana1207 Ford AND GM will beat Tesla to market sales. Where Tesla promised the semi and cyber truck to be delivered 2021 or earlier. LOL REKT
PRO TIP FOR THE EV HATERS - go drive this truck or a Tesla for 2 minutes (preferably on an on-ramp to the highway) and then report back. You can't comprehend how awesome the instant torque is until you drive one. A gas vehicle will seem silly after driving a high performance EV.
Very nice, but what are all the power plants using to charge all these electric vehicles ?
Coal.
Uep, a bunch of "environmentally friendly" bullsht per usual.
Ever heard of economy of scale?
Seriously, stop spreading false info. Enough clean energy is used to make it the more environmental choice
@@DesignRhythm Coal only represents 19% of the US grid power, and that portion has been in decline. Nuclear even provides more power than coal in the US (20%). And so do renewables (20%).
Actually, it is not so bad. Most of the energy is used in industry and for HVAC. If you will have all cars EVs, it will need something like 3-4% more national energy. Nothing fancy. And as US is lagging in comparison to Europe, it will be needed in 10-15 years from now.
He's become a flack for anybody who'll hand over some money. This fake cheerfulnesses become worse than annoying
I would love to own a Tesla for many reasons, but them not allowing their EVs to power your home (in an emergency) or anything else, is BS.
Tesla manufactures now cars for ordinary people - it is somewhat useless feature - for houses. Emergences in developed parts of the country are extremely rare. And for everyday use it is somewhat useless - by day your car is parked somewhere by your office, by night, you charge it don't need power. But low power socket - it would be handy.
@@AndrewSienx LoL. And I am sure that cannibalizing sales of their Powerwalls has nothing to do with their decision 😊
A Tesla Model 3, which has 4+ Powerwalls worth of energy storage, and cost less than 4 Powerwalls, with the ability to power your home, is something no one would want.
SMH
Do you remember what happened in Texas in February of 2021??
Wrong. No one will buy.
Lol no one's buying this
Wait & see. More reservations already than they'll be able to produce for a couple years...
@@skylerwilliams yeah from guys who don't even use a truck
Will sell like hotcakes
LMAO
@@DesignRhythm wait until you drive one. And pay 25% as much for fuel.
No thanks. It's not the Cybertruck.
That’s what she said lol…..
@@carholic-sz3qv who is “she”?
Why did she say that?
It's not the Cybertruck... that's exactly why normal people will buy it.
Right, cyber trucks are for people who want to tell everyone for years that they are buying a new truck. .
These are more for the type of people who actually want a real truck in their driveway within a year or so.
👊
Lmao he couldn’t even say the name… cybertruck lol! How much do you think Ford paid to make sure he didn’t say it? 🤡
so you play it safe and not take any job outside 100 mi radius. that gives you 30 mi to spare round trip, but oops, your tools just took you over that 30mi cushion. better limit my territory to 50-60 mi radius. oh well
When it’s not at the repair shop…
Yeah, maybe wait until 3 or 4 years of production
Yeah it’s definitely not for everyone, no surprise it’s not for you, after all, it takes at least some balls to even be a regular truck guy. 👊
@@jaxturner7288 it takes balls to buy and drive a truck? What ever helps you feel better fool.
You'd have to have a lot of jobs, to pay this off!!! Most Tesla cars start at $70,000. I still like my gas car. Plus, not very many electric vehicle mechanics. Plus, from people who own Tesla cars, are having trouble getting their cars fixed, because of parts.
This thing is cheaper than Matt's current truck.
Pro model is very nice and is $40-$45k with lots of features added. Base is under $40k. Helluva start
Yep and what do u do when u take a heavy load out to a remote off grid job site and discover u don't have enough range to get back = you're fcked.
@@DesignRhythm why would you take a heavy load on a 5 ft bed 1/2 ton? 🤔 get a diesel. This isnt to replace everything
@@bigtxbullion Don't hold your breath as Tesla Model 3 was advertised as $35K base and is now only $45K base. If you baught a Toyota Camry (same size) for $25K you'd have to drive 300K miles to even breakeven in fuel savings.