The XR400 Is NOT Hard to Start! (And doesn't need a new carb)
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- čas přidán 6. 03. 2019
- No bog, no flat spot, no hard starting, all fixed with a few bits of brass and time. What I am trying to show here is that buying a whole new carburetor is not necessary especially considering how expensive they've become recently.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
I was a motorcycle mechanic back in the 90's and Honda school was awesome. After initial break-in, we would die grind out the restricted air intake, but leave a small 5mm lip at the bottom. This was a factory secret to making these bikes start easily and idle beautifully too. Some had the idea that widening the intake fully gave them more power, but it only made them hard to start, idle rough as guts with no noticeable gain in performance. The lip gave the air intake turbulence resulting in excellent fuel mixture.
After setting the float height to within .5mm tolerance, (motorcycle carby float heights are critical, just by the way) grinding the intake with the lip and then carefully fine tuning the carby air/fuel mixture screw, i could show our customers how well their bike started and ran after my service by starting it with my ARM... stone cold!!! But.... with the same kick starter setup as this post showed.
These bikes are my passion, yes i own a 1998 XR400r and wouldn't part with it for any value of money.
P.S. no pumper carb was needed back then, :-)
What are your thoughts on the gordon mods ?
Hi @@Bandito071
GMod's appear sound for performance increases and he's done progressive adjustments which I like.
If it works well go for it!
A few months ago I bought a 2001 XR 400 and it started and ran decently. Had a problem getting it started one day and Try to bump start it and from that point forward I can’t get it to run. I took the carburetor apart and cleaned it and put it back together per the specs in the service manual. I adjusted the valves and they seem to be on point. I have basically kicked my leg off trying to get it started but to no avail. I thought about buying a pump or carb and skipping the whole process of using this carburetor, but I know that it ran before and I can’t figure out what is happening. Would you have any suggestions? Thank you
@@christopherfleming5409 check your spark, compression and timing
Hi @@christopherfleming5409 I feel your pain! Rule of thumb is... ALWAYS Start with the basics first when your stumped as it could be a very simple thing overlooked or even dismissed! Yes i have seen that more often than not.
It should run with the original carb so don't throw money at a problem hoping to fix it, you'll be spewing if the same thing happens.
Three things are needed for an engine to work, Fuel, Compression and Spark. To suddenly have it not want to start sounds electrical but that's a guess without actually seeing it myself. Were you riding through some water or mud? Do you have spark? Has the plug lead become loose internally?
Either way, check ALL electrical connectors by pulling them apart and cleaning them with some electrical parts cleaner or WD40 and blow out with compressor air and check there is no damage to the wires anywhere. Don't think she'll be right, make sure it is! Nice clean solid connectors please!
Have your CDI, coil pack, stator and pulse coil checked but first look for a good spark at the coil plug. If there is no spark or its weak its one of those items.
Does it have a kickstand kill switch? Pretty sure they didn't but some people add strange things to bikes that never were.
This is how i would diagnose.
Compression is pretty easy to eliminate as you can feel that through kick starter, so rings and valves should be OK.
So.....
I just got a 2002 xr400r yesterday. Owner replaced the carb with an expensive Mikuni. Says the float is sticking and he was tired of messing with it. Plan on tinkering with it this weekend. Thanks for the video.
Had the problem with idle bog and hard start for years.
Realised that the float was installed upside down. 😅😅😅. Runs perfect now. 96 model
The pumper carb does increase throttle response, power and is better for altitude changes. However the stock carb will do the trick when done right.
Well I just tried your same starting procedure on my newly purchased 99 XR400r and it worked beautifully first kick!
i had a new 2000 model and a used 03 between 2011 and 2013 and never had a problem starting them cold but in 2021 i bought a mint 04 xr400r and had no end of trouble cold starting it , so after a lot of frustration and embarrisment i got a mate to have a look and he started it first kick lol , this video is very true and i now know how it should be done , but i no longer up the idle speed , the key is to put fuel on , full choke sit on it and kick it a few times to suck in fuel with the KILL SWITCH SET SO IT WONT START , then get the kick starter to compression , use the decompresser lever to go about 10-20mm past stiff then let the kick start lever up turn off kill switch so it will start then kick and there you have a first kick start
yes, jetting it correctly helps, but the main reason we drop pumper carbs on these old pigs is because even with a perfectly jetted factory carb, you will still get a lag and flat spots, also, when installing big bore kits as well as hot cams, the pumper is a must. you should make a video on how to jet a factory carb properly, according to heat ranges and elevation.
Real men kick their bikes.
Thanks for backing me up. I kick my XR400 just like you do and always starts right up. I don't dick with the idle though.
exactly, same with the 600 I was 5'7 130ish and started right up
my 98 was a horror show to start cold.... no problem warm.... my buddy had 4 XR400's , he kept his idle speed a lot higher than mine, makes all the difference,all 4 of his started easy
Who ever says they are hard to start just don't know how to kick 4 stroke
Isaac Lamb it’s as simple as that, I watch my buddies until I can’t stand it, then kick it once or twice, jeez.
Oh really, only if you replace the carb, with a pumper.
I have success with starting my 96 xr400 by full choke, pulling in decomp lever pushing the kick starter to bottom of stroke. Releasing decomp and then kicking. Have success even with bare feet haha.
I dont bother about top dead or anything like that.
I have a 99. Stage 1 cam. Gordons mods. Stock Carb 60/160. Chevron 93/Stabil. First kick start with choke and once or twice down-through- prime decomp lever. TDC , one notch down with decomp lever. Boom. Don't even have to kick hard at all. It wants to start. I think the stage 1 cam has something to do with it. I was nervous as hell about starting it after all I read about it while doing the initial service, set up and TLC. With a cleaned Carb and a new float it a breeeze.
I've never had any hard starting issues with my XR400, hot or cold, and it's never had any bog to it. However, I did re-jet it when new (Ive had this bike for 17 years), and uncork it, and add a good FMF pipe. Maybe the starting issues are with a stock bike, I can't remember mine being hard to start even when it was new though. Now, if you drop the bike, it can flood, and then be a bear to start, but the trick is to simply pull the de-comp lever and kick it through a few times, then try starting it, and usually it will fire right up.
Exactly right, I think it's because the XR seems to be a bit more picky about jetting than other bikes which means whacking in what somebody said in a forum post doesn't always work; that and everyone I've seen complaining just blindly repeatedly kick the bike without any thought of technique, which kick starters in more modern bikes seem to be geared for now anyways.
Shoulda done that in sandles mate! Great info
When i drop my xr400 to start it the i hold the throttle wide open find tdc one good kick and it starts and turn throttle off straight away. if you do not do this it just will not go and takes kick after kick .
starts easy hot cold other wise i do the same as your video .
Good video mate love my 400 currently pulled back to the frame for a resto, I’ve got a pumper carb but the original one was always easy to start as well, not trying to say anything bad but the metal exhaust shield/guard is around the wrong way on yours 👍 what gearing do you run? Cheers
pumper carb from a Husqvarna 450 or a KTM mikuni or keihin FCR. There is a huge difference in the throttle. less lag and in general its the first installment in this bike. Helps alot. Increases the fuel consumption alot tho so if you want to drive arround and do chores with it Its not worth it. But if you racing with this or doing endurom pumper carb is a must.
Same goes with my 1978 Honda xl250s, get her to top dead center and giver a kick.
From what ive read. The hard start/hard to kick issues are on the 96 and 97 models. I believe in 98 they changed the jetting and added more teeth on the kick starter shaft. I have a 96. Im pretty sure it has the upgrade kick start mods of the newer models, cause my bike is a dream to start. I've been in the middle of nowhere and she starts up everytime
Thanks for the insight, though I think there may be a few other contributing factors as well. A couple months ago I had trouble starting the bike (ending up having to roll start it) and after checking valve clearances an exhaust valve had become a little tight, after adjusting it everything was back to normal. Not only that, but I find the bike seems to take a few extra kicks to get started after a couple of months of sitting, which I gather is the oil draining from the cylinder walls lowering compression. So really I think lack of maintenance is a likely cause for a lot of trouble as well.
My xr400 was running flawlessly had it running earlier today. And after that I haven’t been able to get it going tried multiple how toos on starting xrs. And nothing. will be getting new spark plug and what not
If your tuned correctly you should never have to touch the idle screw. I have had many xrs and none ever needed the idle screw messed with.
I have a xr400 with a mikuni and I don't even need to decompress the motor to start it I just choke it and get it to top TDC and kick and she starts right up cold first or second kick and I don't touch the idle screw.
Depends where you have your idle set, I often turn mine down after 15 minutes of running because the idle speed climbs slightly higher after it heats up so next start it's lower than where it should be. Guess I should have mentioned that but I had the bike and the camera near by and felt like making this video so thinking was done while shooting. What do you mean by 'decompress'? The xr4 has an automatic system on the cam, I'm not pulling any levers; if you're getting to TDC easily then your engines being decompressed.
@@ryanfarnay6878 Sorry manual decompression lever on the bar to assist in getting the engine to top dead center without fighting the motor if it's at the bottom of the stroke and help to clear out in case of a crash.
I have owned 2 xr400s a xr650r and xr650l and a xr80 I also have a crf110 as well as a crap ton of other carbed bikes and none of them I had to mess with the idle including my current xr400. If you tune your pilot, fuel screw and idle in the correct order and in the right conditions you will never need to touch your idle unless In very small instances. It should never be part of a cold start procedure. Haven't touched my mikuni idle in about 200 starts in all weather condition hot or cold and all the altitudes I have road at thus far.
Since it starts better when you raise the idle speed, has anyone checked if their idle rpm is set to factory spec? In other words high enough? Even my modern trials bike with a 300cc fuel injected Honda engine wont start good when idle is set too low.
Too tight valve clearances also make starting harder.
What is your bike's set up: Stock or Uni-filter? Snorkel installed or removed? Idle jet #? Main jet#? Stock exhaust or drilled or aftermarket? Thank you!
I absolutely agree with XRs Only. Mikuni pumper carb should have been there from the factory. It's like you ride a different bike!
Hello all and thank you for video and discussion.- I just purchased one, 10k kilometers :) Love it !! Not my first single. It starts just fine, my only problem that Im still getting used to is the abruptness of it, theres little progression as it accelerates, its more of a off/on situation with my carb. Im not planning to motocross on it, more of a trail kind of use and the suddenness of the carb is uncomfortable. If that Mikuni fixes it and makes it more gentle as it goes up, it might be a good option for me.
Hi, being a pumper the Mikuni carb will likely make the power even more sudden as that's what it's designed for. Instead for smooth power you might investigate a vortex carburettor (I believe they're called) where a rubber diaphragm is responsible for increasing fuel/air flow gradually with engine speed.
@@ryanfarnay6878 right away !! Many thanks
@@Chrissurfs ok so after a quick look if you just search "diaphragm carburettor" you should get an idea of what I'm talking about, vortex must be some old branding I've picked up on not the correct term. I think the quad version (TRX400ex) uses such a carburettor with this motor but I don't think it'll bolt straight on, usually the airbox boot size is different.
Hi Chris, try lowering the needle first as mine was the same as yours. the needle steps dramatically increase or decrease throttle aggression.
@@joer3890 its due soon for tires , will look into it , many thanks.
What about cold weather?below 10 celsius etc.
G'Day Mate. We just put a reconditioned cyclinder head on our beauty 400. Poured in about 800ml of oil and kicked it over. She started pretty easy, but had a hell of a tap. Is it going to tap heaps until the oil gets up top? Cheers
I recommend following the workshop or owner's manual to do an oil change, as including filter drain according to my book '00 takes 1.8L. Engine parts should be pre-lubricated as you are putting everything together, it won't hurt to pour a few mills around moving parts. Check that your cam chain tensioner is installed correctly and valve lashes are in spec along with the cam chain itself. Another thing that can cause tapping is the decompression cable being too tight or snagged causing the decompressor to tap while the engine's running. Good luck.
Works 187th kick everytime =D
I can’t mess with the idle screw on the fly because I have a desert tank and you can’t get you finger in there
Might not be necessary anyways, you should be able to just set it once at a happy medium where it will idle fine cold and not too fast while warm. The most important part of this is the actual kick start itself, if you just kick the bike and not get into that 'second section' of compression that's where the trouble usually starts.
You can just hold the throttle partly open and don’t mess with the idle.
I find holding the throttle open never usually works properly, using the idle screw is only a very slight adjustment in slide height. Every time I have tried with the throttle I usually end up getting an increased amount of compression resistance from too much additional flow making it harder to kick.
Thanks Broooo
My 2003 400xr its damn hard to start only when its cold. It starts right away when its hot. Any advice ?
And does choke has to be all way down when its warm ?
Check the spark plug
So what jets are you running in the carb??
Not sure what he does, but I run a 160 main, and 60 pilot, and needle in middle position (#3). Also the airbox snorkle is removed, and it has an FMF muffler. The altitude for this jetting is about 600' elevation. At elevations from 7000 to 9000 (Colorado), I switch back to stock jetting and move the needle down one position and it's fine.
Every complaint I've heard about hard starting is after a fall.
I've dropped my bike a fair bit and have never really had an issue, it usually starts again within two kicks, but I have always picked it up within 10 seconds after dropping it so that might be why.
Ken Bishop or when the valves need adjusting it gets hard to start. People probably don’t check the valve clearances ever. Takes 10 mins but people just add gas and ride and don’t do these things
Josh Domoslai yep, every 4 stroke I hear ticking drives me nuts, so easy to do. Even over a loud exhaust I hear it, 😬
Nothing to it, it’s a reflex after a while.
yeah nah nah nah, shes no XR'200'
You drop it on its side an leave it a few min then try an start it even with all the tricks it won't start for ages I know I ride one every day lol
use the decompression lever and kick it 5 times
and with no gas kick it and ride
worked every time for me
I can attest to this. Grab some clutch on the way down and hang on lol
turn of the fuel, turn of ignition!!! and then WOT Full Throttle constant and kick it like 10 times, gently no force needed, after that try to kick again like normal from tdc
tell em
They should come with a pumper, stock, makes it twice as good, loft the front wheel for logs and no worries about , blah, stall
Ebay has pumper $ 450.00
Hi Mate , yer like your video, i do agree,i have a 2003 xr 400r with the standard carby ,can you please tell me the size of all the jets please the owner before me stuffed with the carby by changing the jet size and before you ask the bike has be deristricked .
@@ryanfarnay6878 Thanks Ryan I also live here in Australia. Victoria. The bike has only done 1458km been sitting for 10years under a tarp in a shed a bit of corrosion on the motor to get of and year old fuel ..I will pull carby off and have a look at what they are and give it a good clean fress plug and fuel even drop the oil even though it looks good to old...
No way that bike was a cold start. The fact that the 400r requires a sequence of things just to fire up is the problem.
just say your lazy
@@dcgeeked8917 just getting to old to kick start motorcycles for 20 minutes
Weird. My stock bike needs 3 kicks to start by finding TDC and going one click down with the decompression lever, going back up, and then kicking. Maybe it’s your technique
So when i first got my xr 400 i would drive it at top speed (around 80 mph) down the highway for like a minute and it would drive just fine, i just got the carburetor cleaned out and put bigger jets in it, now when i drive it at top speed it just kill on me, do you have any idea why it does this?
Quick disclaimer first *I would recommend taking the bike to a mechanic because you can risk engine damage changing carburettor components incorrectly* There's a lot of different things that can cause this, I'm not a qualified mechanic but a few guess would be that you have gone too rich as this usually will cause the engine to 'break up' at a sustained high RPM among other things like spark plug fouling. The largest jet I've seen work well in an uncorked XR4 is a 150 main, but this depends on needle clip position and your elevation so it's up to you to find what will work. Also, it is a good idea to replace the spark plug before doing anything complicated. If it's all black and crusty then you're likely too rich.
Does it seem like it’s running out of gas? My bike did that and I found, when I rebuilt by carb, I set the float too high. It wasn’t letting the carb fill up enough to handle the higher fuel flow. Try setting lowering your float to let more fuel in to the bowl.
lmao u dont even need the decompressor i just took mine off i never used it on my 2001 400r i turn choke on half way and gas on and kick 3 times then fires right up no problom at all
Did you remove the decompressor from the cam shaft or just the manual cable and handle? If just the latter then you're still using the automatic decompressor which I'm referring to in this video.
Do you always turn the gas petcock to reserve as you did instead of the on position which is down not up.
I used reserve because there wasn't enough fuel in the tank for on position.
Unbelievable
Fak yah !!!! Awesome, worked like a charm - Thank you s much!
Had tk blur out where you ride so someone doesnt find you and hurt you for shit talking their pumper carb
I just kick it