Usually when people say someone processes grief differently it means that the person doesn't process grief. You don't lose a family member and replace them. You don't lose a child and go on vacation. The real problem is some people don't deal with grief at all
@@matthew-jy5jp eventually everyone will deal with somebody dying close to them and everyone grieves differently go to an Irish wake you got people happy and nobody's really sad they're in a better place
@@mtyx01 totally unrelated to this event, as a general rule of thumb, unless I have ample vetting evidence to go by (first hand experience or videos of their flights for example), I’d advise anyone in my family not to fly (at least as a family unit) with anyone (other than with an airline) that doesn’t have an instrument rating and a commercial or CFI certificate, at least 1000 total flight hours, 100 hours in type or same make and model, at least 100 minutes logged flying hours per week for the last 100 days (90 min/wk for the last 90 days, etc), 100 total hours in IMC (with at least 50 of that in actual). Individually, that’s another matter, and totally up to them, as they’re only risking themself. Those would be my personal minimums for flying around anyone but my wife, sibling, or a friend, at least if any higher risk activity were involved (unfamiliar plane or avionics, any flight or segment involving night flight, mountains, high altitude, high density altitude, soft/short field, in Class B, flight through convective or AIRMET-level IMC, or expected to have wet runways, icing conditions, high crosswinds, challenging runway widths or inclines, or could get me under one hour of fuel remaining). I believe everyone should have personal minimums for flying themselves around (as the pilot), with a passenger, with multiple passengers, and with a family unit or organizational unit (like a band), over and above the FAA minimums.
I'm a new flight instructor (just flew with my first student yesterday). I watch this channel - along with several others with the same premise - to remind myself of the immense responsibility inherent in flight instruction and the potential consequences of neglect and complacency. I love flying; I love teaching. I can't imagine doing anything else for a living, but I want to always be acutely aware of how serious this job is, and how much my students depend on me to train them to the utmost of my ability and keep them safe. I appreciate the work you do for the aviation community with this channel.
You are a hero for being a CFI because you love to teach, and not just to build flying time at your student's expense. I am like you and simply love to pass on to my students what I have learned about flying. I got my CFI on January 6, 1970 as a 19 year old college student and am still a current and active CFII at 74. i have instructed in everything from a J-3 Cub to the DC-3, King Airs and the Boeing 727, 737, 757 and 767 and currently in the Pilatus PC-12NG.
Please make sure that your students know all about the autopilot. Teach them that it will disconnect in heavy turbulence, and that the pilot must be ready to take over when things are at their worst.
@@erintyres3609 as of right now, I'm just a CFI initial. Our PPL students fly PA-28s that are not equipped with autopilot. But once I start teaching IR and CPL students, I will definitely stress the importance of autopilot proficiency.
And yet I have seen accidents where high time pilots crash in small aircraft. Had one in Wyoming where there were three airline pilots who managed to hit a mountain. The airline pilot with high time who crashed in Telluride after his wedding. It's not always how many hours they have, but the experience gained with those hours. And this Captain obviously had experience to realize when he needed more training for the new aircraft he was learning to fly.
The Nelons were my personal friends. I'm a musician. Knew Kelly since I was 20 years old. I'm now 61. Knew her husband Jason and their kids. I'm so so sad. Thank you for respectfully explaining this. There's more yet to come, I'm sure, but thank you for being respectful in the loss of this precious family. I appreciate your knowledge and insight. God Bless.
I've heard you say a couple times now that "if you can afford to buy "X" plane, you can afford to hire a pilot to fly with you until you are proficient." I think you should flip that. If you can't afford to hire a pilot to fly with you until you are proficient, then you can't afford to buy the plane. A life is the highest price one can pay.
Some insurance companies require that to insure a low time pilot on more sophisticated aircraft. I am sure they are mainly concerned with their bottom line but makes people more safe as a result.
I've watched a few plane crash stories, & playing the armchair expert, it seems to come down to the amount of money they've spent on the plane - if you can't buy a plane with more one engine/propeller, don't buy at all. I was surprised that John Denver had grabbed a cheap single prop plane whenever he was offered it, that's the version I got, he seemed to not have the money people thought. The more money the better - NEVER buy ANY single propeller plane, seems to be what I take from CZcams - two propellers, much more reliable - if you've not got the money for that - don't buy at all. I felt the Trislander planes could have received more investment - the safest most stable design did not get enough investment & interest.
@@hashachache I'm not a pilot but my understanding is that twin engine aircraft are not necessarily safer than single engine aircraft. In this excellent debrief, I don't believe engine failure was even mentioned. Money and complexity will never trump judgement and experience.
Agreed! I haven't been in a small plane since flying in one with a biz partner of a family member. He did something that made the front of the plane drop down and we lost altitude for a bit....all to scare the children on board.....never again!!
First, let me say that I am a retired United Ailines Boeing 767 captain with some 30,000 hours who has been flying continously for 58 years. What you said about flying this airplane single pilot (at 4:56 minutes) is not a good idea, is spot on! After I retired from the airlines at age 65, I got hired to fly this exact same PC-12NG that has the exact same paint scheme, and have over 1,000 hours in the left seat. The avionics are amazing, but they can overwhelm even an experienced pilot when flying single pilot in the weather and in intense ATC environments. For example, it requires 6 steps of moving a cursor around on the nav screen with a joy stick to go direct to a fix that is on your route, but down line. If the fix is not on the route you are on, it requires about 10 steps to create the fix, then go direct to it. But the real reason this airplane should not be flown single pilot is in case there is a system failure that inops the autopilot, as I believe happened in this accident. Trying to hand fly in IMC, navigate, communicate and deal with they system failure can be overwhelming, especially if you are not competent at instrument flying. And there is no way to read the Quick Reference Checklist while hand flying in the clouds. Now, there is one connection between the two Pilatus crashes that you did not mention. Both were being flown single pilot by a pilot with only a Private license. In fact, there have been at least 4 recent PC-12 accidents where the pilot only held a Private certificate and flying with no copilot. A complex, high performance, turbine powered airplane should be flown by a professional pilot in the left seat with an experienced pilot in the right seat. When the PC-12 is flown under FAR Part 135 (for hire), the flight manual requires a second pilot. My boss forbids me to fly with passengers single pilot in spite of my experience, and he is a 1300 hour pilot who has owned and been flying the airplane since it was new in 2009. He is a smart man!
Just as an FYI, you can actually just hit the Direct button and then immediately enter a fix on the alphanuneric keypad and boom, you are direct to the fix. Then, workload permitting, go back and amend the route. An under-utilized feature of the powerful, albeit clunky, Honeywell Apex Primus.
@@Poppa_Capinyoaz. I don’t understand your thinking… that comes out at 517 hrs per year or 40 hrs per month, which is well within what an airline pilot flies normally. I flew almost 60 hrs per month in my airline days. What’s your point?
It absolutely does NOT require a second pilot under part 135. I and many, many other pilots flew the PC12/47E single pilot part 135 safely and legally.
As a professional flight instructor and charter pilot I have witnessed this over and over again. Rich people buying high performance airplanes they have no experience or business flying. They exude confidence where it is false bravado. These high performance aircraft all have the latest control panels and auto pilot which actually fly the plane for the pilot. The problem is these people never take the time and spend the hundreds of hours it takes to become proficient. If you can't fly an airplane without an auto pilot you have no business flying it at all. It's really sad that their over confidence wipes out their entire family.
Agreed....automation should be a flight 'aid' and not a 'crutch'. If you can't manually fly the aircraft....you can't fly the aircraft. The push to automate even driving a car leads to complacency and when (not if) the automation fails...you are in a real bind that might be fatal.
I think a lot of the problem is their very success in one field does not necessary transfer over to another, but their orientation to their less than stellar performance does not change. That is, they use their focus and will to try to perform in a superlative manner in an area where they simply are not very good. Ron did make a good faith effort in his 10 days of training in the PC-12 but that lack of instrument experience is disturbing.
And their children had no say in it. It's terrible enough to have to die this way, but to also have to go through the minutes of sheer terror that the families and passengers did before dying, gets me every time.
Being rich seems to give over confidence. Like Kobe Bryant who apparently demanded the flight that caused his death and that of 6 others from a helicopter pilot that said the conditions were not safe.
@@Lehmann108excellent point. Not just rich people as I said but people successful in one thing falsely think they are better at another thing than they are. I see it all the time.
Props to Tim for trying to warn Mr Bramlage and even trying to model the proper respect for the aircraft, by mentioning that he himself, although a commercial pilot, was going to pursue more training!
I think the way he tried to warn him is also very telling: He made the story about himself so as not to imply anything overtly, yet still plant the seed hoping it would yield some results. Sadly though it didn't seem to take. Confidence is one of those swords that cuts both ways. There are times it can save your life and then times it can shorten it. 😢
Maybe what is needed is more instructors, controllers, and FBO'S who are willing to confront these a/c owners, buyers, and flyers who will speak more directly, that is, " You're not qualified to safely fly this airplane", "With your level of experience, you're likely to kill yourself and you're family if you fly single pilot" and from the FAA...."pilots with less than 100 hrs in type may not carry passengers and must pass a flight exam before doing so". Is your liberty to fly when you want, how you want, because your riches outweigh the lives of these of these 2 families, and countless more?? We're not doing anything to prevent unwittingly compliant passengers from trusting fat headed pilots who excel in one field and think it automatically transfers to flying.
@RedwingBB that is a common thread in aviation. Pilots that need training the most are the least likely to get it unless they are forced to do so, meanwhile, pilots that have gotten the most training are always looking for more. Most low time pilots put off getting a non jeopardy flight review until the last second. Every pilot I have given a flight review to, I have offered alternatives and rarely are any interested because it sounds like more training. (it's not)
@@1Aviator71 lol, prepare to be told to pound sand. I have tried to convince airplane owners to upgrade their plane to shoulder harnesses. Nah, too expensive ! WTH ? ? ?
One thing that struck me about both of these tragic flights is the fact that the people on board must have experienced what felt like an eternity during which their aircraft was wildly out of control. The terror they must have experienced is heart wrenching.
Agreed, and certainly not condoning the father's overconfidence, but I imagine that "eternity" was amplified for him, knowing he was the reason his family was about to be no more. As a father too, and put mysself in his shoes in those moments is a reminder to be humble when family is involved.
My doctor just had a near miss crash in his plane. He just recently lost his beloved dog. He is an animal rescue pilot and was going on a rescue mission a week after his dog had passed. He even said he didn’t realize just how much grief played a role in his decisions flying that day until afterwards. The weather conditions that day were not ideal to be flying. Thank goodness he is still able to fly another day on his rescue missions.
An excellent observation. I operate an aeronautical dog rescue. I have made a couple of questionable decisions to expedite a flight because of the pressure to save dog’s lives. Now, I am more likely to cancel a flight. Better to have everyone wait and to make more rescues later than not come back at all.
Grief will really mess you up, you just can't be ready for it if you're fortunate enough to have never really experienced it. When I lost my partner I had no recollection of anything that happened the day of the service. I didn't even realize I had no recollection of those days until months later when another family member asked me about something we did that day. God help anyone around me if I tried to fly a plane in those days..
I once met a pilot/owner of a PC-12 and he said he went for regular recurrent factory safety training. He said they put him through the wringer and that it was VERY good training.
Been through some of the best training providers that are around, they’re geared for the masses and leave some more to be desired. All depends on the background you have when you go in there for your training.
What is interesting to me in both of these accidents is the apparent lack of formal SIM based initial and annual recurrent. As a former aviation underwriter for 40+ years, when anyone was a new pilot in turbine class aircraft, I can't think of a single insurance company (out of maybe 5-8 available markets), that *all* underwriters would mandate formal SIM training, and in many cases required the pilot in this class to be accompanied with another pilot with turbine and Make/Model time for somewhere between 15-25 hours, before solo. With likely high limits of liability in addtion to a values on the aircraft in the millions of dollars, it seems very odd that _any underwriter would approve taking just some dual_ and that's it. It was common to meet underwriting requirements for Initial, and in many cases I'd require 15-25 accompanied, that included several x-county flights into high density airspace/airports.
I cant imagine losing my entire family at once, including my sibling, the person I'm supposed to lean on and be for when tragedy strikes. My heart breaks for their surviving daughter.
Know your limits....friend of mine, she got her Motorcycle license, she was going out and buying a brand new bike, I told her, buy a 250 cc tour bike before you think of a Sport Bike, which she wanted, long story she didn't take any of my or others advice. She went to a Honda Dealership, walked in wanting a 250 but the Sales guy talked her into buying a 900cc R1 ( this gave him a big bonus ) her toes barley touched the ground, she dropped the bike once leaving the dealership, then a second time in the street at a stop light, 2 days later she ran a Red light unable to stop and was T-boned Dead..... Whether it's a Tank Boat Bike Skateboard or Plane....BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF and KNOW YOUR LIMITS....EGO IS DEADLY...
I’m 61 and last week gave up my final bike, a Ducati Panigale V4 S….after 37 years of sports bikes and sanctioned racing as well, my skills were just not good enough for a 215 HP superbike. So it’s gone and I bought a 911 C4S, when I’m too old for that, it’ll be time to punch out for good.
Getting a R1 as your first bike when you’re just starting out is insane, I rode bikes , my last bike was a GSR 1000 K2 . I totally agree, as I have seen to many people with big egos with little experience buy big bikes then crash
You are the most respectful, smartest person I have seen on CZcams. You really take on terrible tragedies with the highest level of respect and knowledge
I want to thank you for first of all getting the name “Nelons” right, but most of all being informative yet respectful. The most respectful video I have seen of this content yet. Again as someone who knows the Nelon’s family and friends….. Thank You!
One of the first things my flight instructor said was that you are the pilot in command, and never feel obligated to get in over your head in order to keep to other people's schedules no matter how disappointed they are. There's always another time. So sad..
But often it's the pilot/owner who drags their hapless family/friends along, not a pilot feeling an obligation to get a client to their destination. Unless you're a complete tool, if a pilot says 'I'm not comfortable flying' for whatever reason, no sane person is going to get on the plane.
Although the PC12 is not a super difficult plane to fly... Not as fast as some of the competition, and certainly more forgiving than a light twin... It's a strong airframe. Sure sounds initially like he wasn't prepared to hand fly when the autopilot disconnected... Sounds a little like the TBM at Tahoe.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb you nailed it. These types of pilots indeed remind me of teens with fast cars. Sad that their failure to mature can kill their families and friends.
Omg this is pure gold: if you can afford to buy expensive planes, you can afford a few bucks for an instructor to fly along. And any instructor will be happy to get turbine time. Ego kills.
@@kookietherapy9398 He was flying with an instructor. He was shot down shortly after telling Hillary Clinton he was running against her for the New York senate seat. Bill Clinton, who was president, sent the navy to look for his crashed plane 250 miles from where it went down.
Ron Bramlage was the Worst kind of rich trust-fund-baby pilot anyone could imagine. He couldn’t be bothered to actually study for his private pilot written exam so he tried to bribe his flight instructor to take it for him. The instructor absolutely refused. I know this because we had the same flight instructor and she told me all about it. How he passed Any of his check rides is completely beyond me. People I know personally who flew with him rarely flew with him more than once. One of them, who was an instrument rated pilot himself, flew with Ron Bramlage down to Texas and back in Ron’s Bonanza, and swore he would never get in a plane with Ron again. I think his best quote was “ he was so far behind the airplane he was still in Kansas while his airplane was over Oklahoma.” When I kept seeing the same PC-12 on our ramp I asked who it belonged to…I had the Picacho surprised face when someone said it was Bramlage’s. My next words were: “He’s going to kill himself and I just hope he doesn’t kill his whole family when he does.” Less than a month later they were all dead. As a post script, Post crash, I heard from a 3rd party who knew his wife that she hated flying with him. It’s been 12 years and I still get pissed that he killed his entire family.
Is it possible to rat his incompetence out the FAA for a impromptu checkride or something? Like if you knew of a terrible pilot, and think they will end up dead and killing everyone on board, is there something you could do to help prevent it?
@@VickersDoorterYup. Mr Macho Man. I wonder at what point as the wings were ripped off he knew he was screwed. He checked every box of how to fail at flying.
Auto pilots on any aircraft will give up in extreme conditions. Knowing how to recover from such in IFR and probably an unusual attitude is the most basic skill needed for a IFR rated pilot.
I have been a commercial pilot and CFII since 1991. My wife died 2 years and 5 months ago and I still haven't flown since. I likely never will. I couldn't imagine flying 9 days after burying my daughter. The IM SAFE mnemonic asks you to evaluate your emotions and stress. The recent death of a close relative, especially a child or spouse, should give any pilot pause.
I'm sorry for your loss. A lot of times we don't know how impactful the grief is on our mental and physical capabilities. Thankful that you are aware enough to recognize that it may not yet be the best time to be flying a plane. Hopefully one day....
That is a $6.2 MILLION dollar aircraft. To have that much money "Extra" for a plane, you should always have a full time hired pilot to fly with you until you have many thousands of hours! RIP to all. SO tragic.
I'm not a pilot, but it strikes me that many people can just barely handle a vehicle in two dimensions (automobiles), let alone in three (airplanes). It must take dedication, excellent judgement and endless practice to be a safe pilot.
I've seen a lot of videos describing how some don't seem to know how to keep the plane wings level if the autopilot disconnects. They have all the instruments avaliable but can't read that simple pitch/level compass. You would think that is the first thing you'd learn but no. You have everything there - speed, altitude and attitude. The ground is brown and the sky is blue.
Non pilot as well but I'm seeing a trend. Not just overconfidence but a reaction level to what would scare the heck out of me is met with a laissez-faire attitude toward unknown reason why the plane is behaving in an odd way. That woman and her Dad video seemed to just brush off that in many flights the autopilot's maneuvering was confusing to them and uncontrollable. In the final fateful flight the plan was porpoising and she had no idea why. No doubt this had occurred before during flight. My reaction would be alarm and fright to point I would need to determine wtf exactly is going on here and why. Hers was to basically ignore it as little more than a bother. Omg If my pc reboots unexpectedly that's an example of a bother and not life threatening! Interestingly I'd still spend more time ferreting out the cause than her time on autopilot cause. Irl I drove a 10 year old BMW for about a decade. Very reliable unil 9th year of ownership then the classic items needed to be replaced. Headlamps, new washer fluid pumps,cylinder replacement. Sensors warned me so car never stopped. Then engine hot light came on after lots of driving it spooked me but when car cooled and for shorter trips never went on again. I wanted to bring to my mechanic but next day on short highway trip it went on and killed car engine. Once cool let me proceed few blocks at a time. THAT WAS IT , I never trusted the car again and had it towed to my mechanic. It was the water pump. OK, replaced and immediately sold car and now enjoy a almost new Audi. The point is I lost faith and realized more was to come in this 15 yr old bmw. I'm perhaps too conservative but I imagined if this occurred on expressway in zooming traffic late at night out in nowhere ville. I had 4 seconds on highway to see light, feel loss of engine and immediately react from center lane to barely reach shoulder. To me this stress needs to be acknowledged as serious wake up call. I didn't want to take any related risk if I didn't gave to. How can some of these pilots go thru what I consider far more extreme unknowns regarding their flight and equipment and not seek out answers and solutions asap? Perhaps it's tied to same mindset that made them pilots to begin with. But flying is special in that it can trick the, oftentimes, novice into a confidence level of their abilities (successful flights and awared a license so am good to go) until something happens.
The more I learn about flying from channels like this, I’d say there’s about 7 dimensions to master to fly safely, especially in a fast single engined, high tech turboprop!
@@lukeclemo3659 It's not really harder to fly a modern airplane than an old one, If the autopilot is giving you a headache and warnings or weird inputs you don't understand - then just turn it off.
Thank you for doing this. I had known Kelly for almost 50 years. Kelly and her family were some of the nicest, kindest people you would ever want to meet! My heart breaks for Autumn, her husband and unborn child as well as Kelly's brother Todd and his family. May they all R.I.P.
I met Kelly many years ago. She did a concert at my dad’s little church just for a love offering. Her bus got stuck and she was going to pay to get it out but my dad wouldn’t let her. The fact that they came with no guarantee of payment said all I needed to know about their character. She was a very sweet person. I’m praying for her daughter Autumn. I cannot even imagine what she is going through.
Hoover, I want to commend you for the genuine empathy and compassion that you express toward the victims of these tragedies and their families. It makes your videos all the more engaging when we all share the same emotions and reverence for those lost. Thanks for all your hard work in producing these excellent debriefs, we're all better for it.
I once found myself in very turbulent air on the wrong side of a mountain. Fortunately it was bright daylight, and I fought for wings level control and healthy air speed. I allowed the plane to “surf” on the air, trusting that ground effects would cancel out the severe downdrafts. Fortunately there were no serious obstacles below. It was like being played with by a giant since there were no clouds; just wind. It would be very scary to be in bad weather.
I was a US Navy instrument flight instructor many years ago. I had students who had been evaluated by the Navy prior to becoming active in the flight program as the most qualified to come Naval aviators. In other words, these were the best of the best to become carrier based pilots of the fastest jet aircraft in the world. Yet, when faced with the controlled emergencies we instructors challenged them with, they could become totally disoriented and lose control of the A/C. If no instructor was available to take control and correct the attitude of the plane, a crash would have occurred. Eventually, the training would make them proficient enough to handle whatever we could throw at them, including placing the A/C totally inverted and then saying, "your aircraft" and letting them regain controlled level flight. Real instrument flying is the most challenging thing a private pilot will ever encounter. Sometimes there is no second chance to get it right.
@@trukenyanthere isnt much that can be done when someone can buy an overly sesitive peice of equipment especialy when they think they know better than everyone else its all downhill from here as they say nothing good can come out of a bad descision is it unfair that someone that has put in the time for this hobby cant afford a plane like this yes & no useually someone with this kind of $$ is smart enough to hire someone who knows better Apparrntly these people thought above their ability & others paid the ultamate $$
Wow, that sounds like fun! Having the instructor invert the aircraft then say it’s your aircraft. Party is on and suddenly you are stone cold sober because the next action you take could kill you. Flight is fun but it’s as serious as a heart attack. Approach it as such!
@@CrucialFlowResearch I’m a commercial pilot. I know what a chartered flight is. I fly them all the time. If you think first class commercial is first class you probably vacation at Disneyland. 😂
I truly value and respect Hoover for what he does. As a vet I also appreciate his service. I am an ‘almost’ pilot. I had almost enough hours to get my private pilot’s license but when I lost my little brother I realized I was too emotional to continue. It was my lifelong dream to be a pilot but I knew I could no longer devote 100% of my time to flying so I stopped. I’ve watched hundreds of these type videos and I know so many of these people should have never flown planes.
I had a boss that would train people for free. I was pretty close to done but I lost my grandpa very suddenly. He was my most positive & supportive relative on all aspects of my existence. Family drama ensued. I recognized I wasn’t right in the right state of mind to do it and stopped going up. It’s a serious endevour that some take way too casually.
Hover, first I would like to say I love your content. I am a retired commercial pilot with aeromedical, law enforcement and fire fighting experience in rotor and fixed wing aircraft. I logged over 20,000 accident free hours in my career. One of my favorite jobs was flying the PC12 for a large aero medical company. I attended Flight Safety on both rotor and the PC 12. I would like to add these facts about the PC 12 for your general information. I loved the PC12 but I will tell you , I myself flew in several IFR missions where my autopilot disconnect in moderate turbulence . This is a common issue with the PC12, but it is manageable and like any good pilot your have to remember the golden rule; Aviate,Navigate,Communicate! in such you have to return to basics! The first rule for me was a license in your pocket, doesn’t mean you can tackle any weather or flight conditions. I set my own limits above posted ones on the charts until I felt competent. My company required a trip to Flight Safety every year. I was never pressured to accept a flight. If I didn’t like the weather or if it was forecast to be hard IFR with any icing or turbulence…. I turned it down. If snowing and the destination airport did not have de-icing equipment, I didn’t go. Night flights were only conducted at airports with weather reporting and an instrument approach. I flew every mission with a filed IFR flight plan . Thanks again and Happy Landings!!!!
Best comment on this thread. Plenty of well informed decisions have guaranteed you those 20,000 accident free hours. Every pilot should be able to say the same and let others know why, just like you!
I came here to say this but you summarized it pretty well. I flew the PC-12 for 18 years. The PC-12 Autopilot will very likely kick off in moderate turbulence due to control forces exceeding it's limits. You have to be prepared for it/expect it. Hand fly, keep the wings level, adjust power to get under maneuvering speed, and ride it out. If it's severe+ turbulence just focus on level attitude. Don't chase altitude or airspeed. Don't fiddle with anything else (like trying to re-engage the autopilot.) Your scan has to be pretty limited at this point, focus on attitude is paramount. AVIATE. Navigate and Communicate can come later, there's a reason those words are in that order.
Worked for a Helicopter Company in the Gulf of Mexico oil field operations. One of our pilots lost his teenage daughter during his two week break "we worked 14/14" and the company had no policy to give him much needed more time off. He came to work still in shambles. Got in the aircraft and went to work. He crashed into the Gulf later that day due to fuel exhaustion and successfully autorotated to the water and all survived. He just never payed attention to his low fuel state, passengers said they say the low fuel warning and the pilot never saw it. Poor Guy should have never been in the cockpit! Now his career was ruined. These big companies are ruthless!
Yep, as my old helicopter instructor use to say- “the two worst things that can happen to a helo pilot. 1)waking up with a dead 13 year old boy in your bed and 2)running out of fuel”. It may sound crude, but it hits home cause there’s so many things working against you commandeering a machine with 50,000 moving parts, that something as elementary as fuel management, should NEVER be an issue. It will ruin your career, if not your entire existence!
Grief is a red flag that doesn't seem to matter to some people. I've driven home from hospitals, funerals and even my vet with tears in my eyes. I stick to the side roads and have taken frequent breaks long before needed. It's not a question of "growing a pair", it's part of life and will never go away.
why did he not simply take 2 weeks off? It was not up to the 'company'; it was up to the pilot: if he felt unsafe to fly, he should have told them, and if they then tried to push him to fly, he should call the FAA immediately. He has all the authority in the world, given by the FAA, to simply say "I'm not fit to fly" and walk away. If they fired him for that, it would turn into a PR disaster for that company, and I'm sure other customers would be very angry also that the pilots are 'forced' to fly when they are not safe to do so.
@@jahnkaplank8626grief doesn't just impact your piloting decisions it can also make you make poor decisions and accept what your employer is pressuring you to do.
Hoover, you are the most fair and respectful person I’ve ever heard breaking down these deadly preventable, occurrences. Thank you for being so sensitive to family & friends feelings while still being educational.
Poor Autumn😢Feel bad for all of their families, but especially bad for her. Unimaginable to lose my mother and my sister at the same time. You’re so kind, Hoover. Something I really enjoy about your channel
Why would feel worse for her than those who died? Aren't the deceased ones the unfortunate victims because their lives were cut prematurely while the survivors the relatively lucky ones?
@@adotintheshark4848 she lives in Tennessee and the rest lived in Georgia. She and her husband flew out of Tennessee. She is also expecting her first child so probably not traveling as much
There is a moving video on CZcams of Amber at around 13 years old singing "Jesus, I heard you have a big house" so incredibly professionally and perfect in its rendition. I don't listen to gospel or kids singing normally, but this clip gave me goosebumps.
@JBliehall This is why so many rich and successful people paint themselves into deadly corners. They believe that their own sheer will can make things work out.
Witness the Citation crash on take off in Odessa this past week Wealthy oil executive flies his own jet solo…but (probably ) left the parking brake on during takeoff. Got his PPL only one year previous to his crash!!
You mean foolishness. I’ve seen a Malibu landing on an opposite runway to the prevailing direction without joining the pattern. Lots of people with money buy airplanes as status symbol but they aren’t proficient to fly them. There is a doctor in socal , ppl who bought a Kodiak turbine and caused havoc over socal ATC. Too much airplane for him but no one can tell him that 😟
I mean.. doesn’t Naval Aviation mean no cross winds, no obstacles on approach and departure, a plane with a ridiculous thrust to weight ratio, a bang seat, and a plane guard? Most naval aviators would be shocked at what I can do with a 150HP single engine plane in extreme mountainous terrain. Been doing it for over 20 years.
Much of what Pilot Debrief is saying about pilot training and confusion is applicable to driving a surface vehicle, particularly long distance. I like the part where he said, something like: “Just because you are legal to fly solo doesn’t mean it is safe”.
I work for a part 91 operator who bought a PC-12 a couple of years ago. Despite that all of our pilots have thousands of hours and jet type ratings we still always fly with two pilots. I’m told that the Honeywell apex avionics suit it quite complicated, and isn’t easily managed by a single pilot.
@@jasoncrandall because bragging is an immature endeavor to begin with. Bragging about being alive takes that to another level. That coming from a pilot is a bit concerning.
I read that Autumn and her husband and his parents drove to Seattle because Autumn is pregnant. It isn't considered safe for the unborn child for a mother to fly during pregnancy.
These Days, I'm thinking that Commercial isn't what it once was. I will only fly if I absolutely must, any more. I was born in 1952. My father worked for the Airlines and I've flown all my life. I'm a private pilot.
Moderate turbulence in a PC12 can and will cause the autopilot to disconnect. (4000+ hrs in such) If your not IMC proficient who will fly the plane when AP goes offline? Also know that, if speed dropped the pusher system likely kicked in and that is even more disorienting in IMC conditions. As much as you did not speak the words your point is spot on. A pilot must be able to use raw data to level and recover airplane.
@@matteob8676 it typically will not out of trim when that happens (unless it has accumulated ice unknowingly) so many of these accidents point to poor instrument skills - if a pilot can not hand fly in IMC it’s over in about 178 seconds. Ever watch video “178 seconds to live”?
I went to College with Nathan Kislter and his sister, they were both in our friend group. I couldn't believe it when I read about the crash on the news. Nathan was a great guy and had so much going for him.
Too much reliance on automation and not enough stick and rudder experience. During my sim check rides, I was told by my sim instructor to use more automation because I was very comfortable with my scans and manually controlling the aircraft. 3200 hours flying a BE1900 for a regional airline with no autopilot , and "steam gauges" really sharpened the skills. RIP
Much credit to you, Hoover - you handle these things with tremendous class and sensitivity while also drilling down into the critical information all pilots need to hear. Kudos.
Wow. This is the first time I’ve ever heard one if you’re videos. I love how simple you were. Keep it for us people that don’t know anything about being a pilot. Now it all makes sense, thank you for that. Sad stories… but good at editing and great video.I just subscribed!✝️🙏❤️
It's always sad to hear stories like this. Praying for those involved. One thing that stuck out to me is how important it is to know how to hand fly your aircraft and what to do if you penetrate some bad weather. I'm currently a private student and too often I hear other students talking about how "easy" it is to fly because they just use autopilot, not realizing the dangerous game they're playing with that mindset. Flying is fun, but complacency kills.
I am a skydiver and I have seen jumpers get grounded due to tragic events such as losing a loved one. Like Hoover said, everyone grieves differently, but still must be on the lookout for people to do strange things even when they appear to be perfectly normal.
I was novice skydiver, and I knew a guy who did his 1st jump while coming down off an acid trip. I was not there at the time or I would have reported him. I was there the next time he jumped, and I still reported him, but they let him jump anyway. (He was not high that time. I reported what he did the first time.) He had an automatic opening parachute, but I still thought they were wrong to let him do it without at least giving him a vicious going over verbally and a warning. Later on that company had 2 serious accidents and 2 deaths, plus one owner himself died in a questionable jump in S America.
@@cattymajivand the guy who did the recreational drug the day earlier that didnt effect your life…jumped…survived and lead a normal life… So the point is; that you are dishonorably judgemental, make assumptions, don’t understand drugs, want to suppress freedom bc of that, and is wildly biased when it comes to things you dont understand? Did i miss anything? Thats literally all i got out of your comment?
You mad bro? You know that driving, flying, firearms ownership, and even skydiving are illegal if you are under the influence of a drug right? So being safe is somehow judgemental? So being reported for putting others at risk is "suppressing freedom?" If it's a person's choice to take a drug, that is their freedom. But their freedom to take drugs, should not affect the safety of those around them. That is where their "freedom" ends. Did I miss anything?
Like that airline pilot who was upset about a friend of his who had passed away. He was actually depressed about it but airline pilots don't speak up about it as they don't want to be forced out of their job. This was the pilot who tried to pull the levers to shut off the engine during a flight. Then he tried open a cabin door. He had also taken some psychedelic mushrooms a couple of days earlier and it was still affecting him.
@@Rhaspun Yes and now he is going to make a documentary about happened to him and the choice he made with the mushrooms. He was suffering from depression from the death of a friend and no airline pilot is going to report his mental suffering to the company, much less reporting any anti-depressant drugs or other banned substances. Everyone can understand why those are no-go(s) to get into a flight deck. The good news is that he is starting some type of non-profit organization that will deal with pilots' mental issues, but he'll never fly again even though he wants to. I've flown with drunk pilots (former F/A) and when flying on the combis, I'd be pouring hot coffee into those inebriated pilots in the front biffys. If I reported them, I would have lost my job, not them. Sorry to say, F/As are a dime a dozen, pilots are not. Pilots are human too but withhold their grief or whatever issue they're dealing with mentally, within themselves to keep their jobs. Think Germanwings and Silk Air (pilot suicides). One son is a professional pilot for a private business corporation - he certainly can call in if he is not feeling well, physically or mentally, not commonly addressed by the Part 121 or 135 corporations/companies. His employer has not had an accident since 1964. Highly vetted pilots to be sure. They are treated like messiahs so to speak. For good reason too.
Love the Nelons! Beautiful people with beautiful voices. So, heart wrenching, such a tremendous loss and so sad for all these lives gone. Prayers for their families left to live without them. I know the Nelons are in heaven with Jesus, because they told the world that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.
As a mom who lost a child I can tell you you are not ready to do much of anything. Its proven that grief not only shocks the body but it shocks the brain. You cannot think correctly. You lose track of your thoughts, you can't finish sentences. You forget what you are doing. I've researched this and it was before the internet was a thing. So he should have never been flying a plane. I wouldnt even ride in a car with someone driving who is grieving. Its an overload on the brain.
I'm so very sorry for your loss. Unbearable is the loss of a child. You never "get over" it, the grief erodes you. I just finished a video by a CZcams anaesthesiologist who discussed the very real phenomenon of people dying from grief immediately after losing a loved one: the "broken heart" syndrome. You are not "yourself" any more.
I lost my Brother 2 years and 4 months ago. (Strange how no one speaks about a sibling loss.) It was a tragic and unexpected loss. I'm still not over it and probably never will be. I know that even now, I need to get legal advice before signing any thing after his death. Much less make any other types of decisions. The past 2 years, I've been waiting for him to come home. Now I feel a desperation that I need to find him. I saw the same video about the broken heart syndrome. It's happening to me. I just wish it would hurry up. I have to find him, wherever he may be.
@@debbie4503 I was thinking of that as well when l was writing, having lost my 3-year-old brother due to maternal neglect when l was ten. It was only 60 years later that l was diagnosed with CPTSD, which finally explained a lifetime of neurological pain and autoimmune disorders - as @bekayezme said, it is an "overload on the brain", that can last a lifetime. 💔
An entire family. Man that's brutal. So many people are so badly affected by these two crashes. My heartfelt condolences and prayers for all those impacted. Truly devastating.
Note to rich pilots: There are THOUSANDS of aspiring pilots that would give anything for SIC or right seat time. Most will do it for a bed and a meal. It's called a, "safety pilot", and they can save you and your family's lives. Many of these pilots have lots of ratings and experience and just need to build turbine or complex time.
I DO that. I’m also a CFII and I like to teach. The first thing I tell my guys is that they MUST speak up and that what is wrong in a 172 is wrong in a TBM. There is a downside to this because of the psychology involved. An owner takes a low time guy who doesn’t have experience and then feels emboldened to take chances. The safety pilot must feel empowered to speak up and needs to know the airplane systems and procedures via ground instruction before flying.
In this (these) situations what is needed is someone in the other seat who is proficient in that airframe and has a command presence, if needed. Two newbies in a complex airplane is no better than one.
I was just telling my wife the same thing! At my airport I know if you put the word out you had a free ride for a safety pilot there would be a line for all the new pilots building hours.
Step 1: Purchase an aircraft that requires great skill to handle. Step 2: Step 3: Enjoy! What could possibly go wrong? Seriously, turbulence can disconnect the autopilot. Lacking the skills to notice and handle it can cause bad things to happen. I feel like too many pilots have become Uber dependent on automation and lack the stick and rudder skills to actually handle a beast like a PC-12! This is not a docile aircraft and it can be a handful to hand fly, especially if you never do it!
What lessons? Common sense? There is ZERO NTSB information on the described incidents and the conclusions are speculative. Even though these videos are useful they can also be considered predatory as sometimes there is some blatant blame assigned without any valid information.
As the son of a Naval Aviator with around 50 hours of flight time, I have been considering restarting to train for my pilots license. This series has had me seriously rethink my decision. Although I understand much of the aerodynamics and mechanics of flying and have a pretty good stick and rudder sense; the complexity of navigating; communicating and troubleshooting has really been brought home. To think all I did not comprehend when I flew 40 years ago (I am now 62) is mind boggling. My father always had a bias against non-military trained pilots; I am finally getting a better understanding of why.
I would think these videos would encourage you to continue. These videos highlight the fact that these crashes are extremely avoidable. They are always caused by MEN ignoring safety redundancy, ignoring basic training skills, and ignoring help and option ion of other experts. Just don’t be a megalomaniac, get proper training, file a flight plan, and ask for help when needed….and you won’t crash.
As a ( helicopter ) flight instructor of 40 years, I'll both encourage you but also caution you. The encouragement goes like this: if you learn in a basic airframe like a 172 or Warrior or similar, and stay in those airframes while you build experience, you're unlikely to get into trouble as long as you don't get overconfident. Get your private, and then by all means get your instrument rating, but don't think the instrument rating let's you use the aircraft as a reliable form of transportation. Keep getting dual instruction - when I was a private pilot, every fourth flight was with an instructor. Then dual for my commercial, CFI, instrument, and CFII meant a lot of my first 400 hours was dual. Flew with lots of different instructors and learned good stuff from most of them. But most of all, keep in mind that you are a real newbie until about 1,000 hours. So, only tackle stuff you're comfortable with, don't push limits too hard, and get a lot instruction, especially from very experienced instructors. ( New CFIs can be great, but there's something to be said for flying with someone like retired airline or military ). Now the part where I throw a little discouragement your way... Your age is going to be a negative factor, and in more than one way. A 62 year old who's been flying for decades isn't going to have issues with basic airmanship, but a 62 year old will have a lot more problems learning the stick and rudder skills. It's far from impossible, but it's something you should recognize. Additionally, the average 62 year old is also going to have more trouble with the knowledge part of learning to fly. Even in their 40s, students seem to find it substantially harder to learn and retain the large body of info you have to learn. What I would suggest is, take some lessons. If you enjoy yourself, keep doing it. But don't put too much emphasis on the goal of getting the license. If you keep making progress and someday your instructor tells you you're ready for your PPL, great! But don't be surprised if it takes you a lot longer than the young whippersnappers to reach your goals. It's just the nature of being older... But if you can afford the lessons, and you enjoy them, do it! If you're honest with yourself, you'll know whether you're making progress or not...
Military pilots are possibly the worst in single pilot operations I’ve ever seen. Coddling by help in the cockpit and flying the best of the best aircraft
It may be tough, but it needs to be done. Hover! You covered many, many tragedies. To me, this was just another one that needed to be broken down. If some bodies' feelings get hurt, they can watch something else. Thank you for all you do!
You’re always a very professional and respectful gentleman Hoover and you never come across as anything other than a compassionate man. What you do is a service to us all!
I’m an MD-11 pilot and we encountered severe mountain wave climbing through FL310 over the Chugash Mountains leaving Anchorage. We went from climbing at 3000FPM to descending at 1000FPM for 30 seconds, completely beyond our control. I can only imagine how dangerous this could’ve been for a less powerful airplane flying lower to the ground. This business is no joke. RIP to these poor victims in both tragic accidents. Very hard to listen to.
These videos over the years have really just taught me to never get involved with rich folks. They'll do whatever they please, disregard rules and regulations, and put other's at severe risk of injury or death because they think they're above proper training and preventative measures.
Love your videos, I’m a retired freight dog with thousands of hours flying Beech 1900’s single pilot IFR. For passenger operations under FAR 135 or 121 either a first officer or approved autopilot is required. Not for cargo or part 91 operations unless you’re flying in RSVM airspace. I’ll tell you that CRM and cockpit discipline is essential in order to survive that. Now that I’m retired, I watch several of these CZcams hero’s flying their own turbine powered planes. One common thread I notice is that there’s little in the way of CRM, cockpit discipline, and questionable decision making. Flying night IFR single pilot, with no autopilot in nasty weather requires this training and discipline. Great Video!!
I don't care how disciplined you are; flying night, IFR, in the weather in a single engine airplane as a private pilot should be forbidden, and that's a fact...
I agree, there are far worse things out there than things that go bump in the night, ATC, and the plane you’re flying. It’s a challenge to say the least,
I’m in a financial situation to pick up flying. This content keeps me grounded. You are likely saving lives everyday. Thank you - commercial all the way! Thanks again.
Thank you for the respect and sensitivity you show towards the families involved in this terrible tragedy. One of the many reasons this is my go-to channel for lessons learned from aviation tragedies.
If someone with much more experience warns you about something you are about to do, listen carefully. If multiple people try to warn you (ATC three times in this case), definitely accept that what you are doing is stupid and change your plan. In some areas of life, you can afford to be stubborn, take risks and make mistakes, but aviation is not one of them
I’ve been both waiting and dreading this video coming out. I’ve worked with the Nelons several times, and this situation is just terrible. It’s a lesson that everyone needs to know, you have to strive to be excellent in everything you do, especially when you have others lives in your hands. Autumn (the only remaining Nelon) and her unborn child lost everyone.
I think you are doing an amazing job bringing these incidents to light in the hope of educating others not to make the same mistakes. Your respect in dealing with these tragedies is utmost in regards to those involved. Your work is instrumental in saving lives and I applaud your efforts immensely ❤
Awareness buys time, time buys options - until it doesn’t. But objective truthful awareness is often difficult to obtain. Thanks for your insight and understanding.
Sad News....May Their souls continue to Rest in Peace. ref: @ 17:05, I was also in a Cessna Plane Accident; Pilot Error, and extremley grateful to have survived it, next day I wanted to get onto another Flight and was told NO, al I know was that I wanted to go back to my brothers. So it's true we process traumer & grief different. Thank You Pilot Debrief/Hoover for the Lessons we are Learning, even though it's from these unfortunate tragedies.
Moving up to a Baron in 1994 was a big jump from single engine aircraft for me. I got checked out by an instructor qualified in the Baron and then built plenty of time in it with an instructor or another qualified pilot sitting next to me. And here I am.
Really appreciate the sensitivity and grace you brought to these stories while still dealing valuable insights to the pilot community. You are doing a valuable service.
HE is the pilot. It's a status thing. He wants to fly his own plane. These people love flaunting their status in front of others. It's addictive and they never get enough.
@@pingpong9656 There’s also no guarantee the sky won’t fall either. Your odds for survival improve tremendously if you are low time but hire a professional.
NTSB report was released this past Wednesday (8-28-24) Turbulence did NOT play a role. Wind was 10 knots. Temp was 77• F. Visibility: 10 miles. The Auto pilot failed. The pilot declared an emergency and attempted in vain to gain control of the aircraft. I read highlights of the report in the newspaper, Cowboy State Daily. (8-30-24)
I have followed The Nelons all my life! Their dad started the group years ago Rex Nelon. I guess they are singing for our Lord now? We will miss them! God bless the families and friends left behind.
I just found this channel. The amount of recklessness some men have is astonishing. Ive never flown a plane. Im an Automation Engineer and a 107 sUAS pilot. But Im smart enough to know my level of training in any given field and I cannot imagine making the decisions some of these men make… An IFR flight with your entire family on board and under 4hrs of IFR flight time in the last 8 years…. Unbelievable. This is the equivalent of thinking your kid is ready to drive on the highway because they’ve rode to school in an auto driving Tesla 3 or 4 times.
Not correct. Like all governmental bureaucracies, they're inefficient, and rarely make any actual safety recommendations. If they did, they would be screaming from the aviation, social and political rooftops about implementing AQP (Advanced Qualification Program) in General Aviation to stem the heartbreaking tide of unnecessary, mostly avoidable fatalities.
Hi all .. I’m salah from Jerusalem I’m in the process to become pilot.. I recently started to fallow this Chanel .. when I started watching this video I wasn’t paying a full attention until I sow the pic of my friend Nathen 😢!! I was in shocked and I couldn’t watch the video to see what happened to him hoping that he still alive.. but sadly he’s not .. I went to his page on Facebook and I couldn’t see any post indicating to his accident .. until I went to his dads … I met the family back in 2015 when they came to my shop in Jerusalem and we became friends .. I can’t tell you enough how nice is this family is RIP my brother 😢
Shalom Aleichem Salah - Know that we are praying for you there in Yerushalayim today, and for all of Israel. Joel 3:16. Your friend Nathan sang acapella the song: It Is Well With My Soul" in a church in Georgia, USA just 2 months before his death, on May 12, 2024 - it is available on youtube under the website title: 'Mount Holly Church" - so poignant and sobering to hear this.
@@igclapp I know. But I didn't say all rich people had perfect families. Just examine rich Hollywood celebrities families for the evidence that they don't. I was saying that in this case it looked that way on the surface. The kids look healthy and happy but I know pictures don't always tell the whole story.
Be sure to learn what reckless mistakes caused one of the deadliest PC-12 crashes in history 👉 czcams.com/video/pkH6kecIeBg/video.html
Yikes !!! So Avoid Pilatus! Fly only TBM???
Usually when people say someone processes grief differently it means that the person doesn't process grief. You don't lose a family member and replace them. You don't lose a child and go on vacation. The real problem is some people don't deal with grief at all
I don't understand why it's not mandatory to have an emergency parachute as a last option for survival?
@@matthew-jy5jp eventually everyone will deal with somebody dying close to them and everyone grieves differently go to an Irish wake you got people happy and nobody's really sad they're in a better place
@@mtyx01 totally unrelated to this event, as a general rule of thumb, unless I have ample vetting evidence to go by (first hand experience or videos of their flights for example), I’d advise anyone in my family not to fly (at least as a family unit) with anyone (other than with an airline) that doesn’t have an instrument rating and a commercial or CFI certificate, at least 1000 total flight hours, 100 hours in type or same make and model, at least 100 minutes logged flying hours per week for the last 100 days (90 min/wk for the last 90 days, etc), 100 total hours in IMC (with at least 50 of that in actual). Individually, that’s another matter, and totally up to them, as they’re only risking themself. Those would be my personal minimums for flying around anyone but my wife, sibling, or a friend, at least if any higher risk activity were involved (unfamiliar plane or avionics, any flight or segment involving night flight, mountains, high altitude, high density altitude, soft/short field, in Class B, flight through convective or AIRMET-level IMC, or expected to have wet runways, icing conditions, high crosswinds, challenging runway widths or inclines, or could get me under one hour of fuel remaining). I believe everyone should have personal minimums for flying themselves around (as the pilot), with a passenger, with multiple passengers, and with a family unit or organizational unit (like a band), over and above the FAA minimums.
I'm a new flight instructor (just flew with my first student yesterday). I watch this channel - along with several others with the same premise - to remind myself of the immense responsibility inherent in flight instruction and the potential consequences of neglect and complacency. I love flying; I love teaching. I can't imagine doing anything else for a living, but I want to always be acutely aware of how serious this job is, and how much my students depend on me to train them to the utmost of my ability and keep them safe. I appreciate the work you do for the aviation community with this channel.
You will be a great instructor. Don't change.
You are a hero for being a CFI because you love to teach, and not just to build flying time at your student's expense. I am like you and simply love to pass on to my students what I have learned about flying. I got my CFI on January 6, 1970 as a 19 year old college student and am still a current and active CFII at 74. i have instructed in everything from a J-3 Cub to the DC-3, King Airs and the Boeing 727, 737, 757 and 767 and currently in the Pilatus PC-12NG.
You have the attitude of a great instructor! Wishing you success and happy flying!
Please make sure that your students know all about the autopilot. Teach them that it will disconnect in heavy turbulence, and that the pilot must be ready to take over when things are at their worst.
@@erintyres3609 as of right now, I'm just a CFI initial. Our PPL students fly PA-28s that are not equipped with autopilot. But once I start teaching IR and CPL students, I will definitely stress the importance of autopilot proficiency.
When a Captain with 21000 hours of flying time gives an advise, you listen to him. If you can't do that, you are not meant to fly airplanes.
Sad, but true.
Generally true.
Theres good and theres bad advice, no matter the hours one has. Have had both kinds given to me.
And yet I have seen accidents where high time pilots crash in small aircraft. Had one in Wyoming where there were three airline pilots who managed to hit a mountain. The airline pilot with high time who crashed in Telluride after his wedding. It's not always how many hours they have, but the experience gained with those hours. And this Captain obviously had experience to realize when he needed more training for the new aircraft he was learning to fly.
What if he completed the 21000 hours in the 1960s and hadnt flown since...smart ass!
The Nelons were my personal friends. I'm a musician. Knew Kelly since I was 20 years old. I'm now 61. Knew her husband Jason and their kids. I'm so so sad. Thank you for respectfully explaining this. There's more yet to come, I'm sure, but thank you for being respectful in the loss of this precious family. I appreciate your knowledge and insight. God Bless.
My favorite song from Kelly is "He'll Go Out Of His Way"❣️So sorry for everyone's loss❣️Prayers for the family, friends, and loved ones ❣️
I’m very sorry for your loss, Ron. ❤
So sorry for your loss🙏🙏❤️❤️
I am saddened for your loss and those who knew them personally ❤
Prayers of strength to you Ron. 🙏🏼 I LOVE them and their music. Very touching and moving people!!
I've heard you say a couple times now that "if you can afford to buy "X" plane, you can afford to hire a pilot to fly with you until you are proficient." I think you should flip that. If you can't afford to hire a pilot to fly with you until you are proficient, then you can't afford to buy the plane. A life is the highest price one can pay.
Some insurance companies require that to insure a low time pilot on more sophisticated aircraft. I am sure they are mainly concerned with their bottom line but makes people more safe as a result.
@@supergmx1046 nothing money cure.
I've watched a few plane crash stories, & playing the armchair expert, it seems to come down to the amount of money they've spent on the plane - if you can't buy a plane with more one engine/propeller, don't buy at all. I was surprised that John Denver had grabbed a cheap single prop plane whenever he was offered it, that's the version I got, he seemed to not have the money people thought. The more money the better - NEVER buy ANY single propeller plane, seems to be what I take from CZcams - two propellers, much more reliable - if you've not got the money for that - don't buy at all. I felt the Trislander planes could have received more investment - the safest most stable design did not get enough investment & interest.
@@hashachache I'm not a pilot but my understanding is that twin engine aircraft are not necessarily safer than single engine aircraft. In this excellent debrief, I don't believe engine failure was even mentioned. Money and complexity will never trump judgement and experience.
it's kinda like all the rich and famous people that get caught with DUI, there really is no excuse
Flying has to be the WORST place one could exhibit overconfidence.
totally, if there was a place to be 100% humble its aviation.
Agreed! I haven't been in a small plane since flying in one with a biz partner of a family member. He did something that made the front of the plane drop down and we lost altitude for a bit....all to scare the children on board.....never again!!
Unfortunately many of the people who have earned the money to do this exhibit exactly those traits.
@@Lyn-n6ygood decision
I don't know, the bottom of the sea is a good contender.
First, let me say that I am a retired United Ailines Boeing 767 captain with some 30,000 hours who has been flying continously for 58 years. What you said about flying this airplane single pilot (at 4:56 minutes) is not a good idea, is spot on! After I retired from the airlines at age 65, I got hired to fly this exact same PC-12NG that has the exact same paint scheme, and have over 1,000 hours in the left seat. The avionics are amazing, but they can overwhelm even an experienced pilot when flying single pilot in the weather and in intense ATC environments. For example, it requires 6 steps of moving a cursor around on the nav screen with a joy stick to go direct to a fix that is on your route, but down line. If the fix is not on the route you are on, it requires about 10 steps to create the fix, then go direct to it. But the real reason this airplane should not be flown single pilot is in case there is a system failure that inops the autopilot, as I believe happened in this accident. Trying to hand fly in IMC, navigate, communicate and deal with they system failure can be overwhelming, especially if you are not competent at instrument flying. And there is no way to read the Quick Reference Checklist while hand flying in the clouds. Now, there is one connection between the two Pilatus crashes that you did not mention. Both were being flown single pilot by a pilot with only a Private license. In fact, there have been at least 4 recent PC-12 accidents where the pilot only held a Private certificate and flying with no copilot. A complex, high performance, turbine powered airplane should be flown by a professional pilot in the left seat with an experienced pilot in the right seat. When the PC-12 is flown under FAR Part 135 (for hire), the flight manual requires a second pilot. My boss forbids me to fly with passengers single pilot in spite of my experience, and he is a 1300 hour pilot who has owned and been flying the airplane since it was new in 2009. He is a smart man!
Just as an FYI, you can actually just hit the Direct button and then immediately enter a fix on the alphanuneric keypad and boom, you are direct to the fix. Then, workload permitting, go back and amend the route. An under-utilized feature of the powerful, albeit clunky, Honeywell Apex Primus.
The math doesn't add up 58 years continuously at an hour and a half a day?
@@Poppa_Capinyoaz. I don’t understand your thinking… that comes out at 517 hrs per year or 40 hrs per month, which is well within what an airline pilot flies normally. I flew almost 60 hrs per month in my airline days. What’s your point?
@@attilagyuris4194 I think his point is he cannot do basic math.
It absolutely does NOT require a second pilot under part 135. I and many, many other pilots flew the PC12/47E single pilot part 135 safely and legally.
As a professional flight instructor and charter pilot I have witnessed this over and over again. Rich people buying high performance airplanes they have no experience or business flying. They exude confidence where it is false bravado. These high performance aircraft all have the latest control panels and auto pilot which actually fly the plane for the pilot. The problem is these people never take the time and spend the hundreds of hours it takes to become proficient. If you can't fly an airplane without an auto pilot you have no business flying it at all. It's really sad that their over confidence wipes out their entire family.
Agreed....automation should be a flight 'aid' and not a 'crutch'. If you can't manually fly the aircraft....you can't fly the aircraft. The push to automate even driving a car leads to complacency and when (not if) the automation fails...you are in a real bind that might be fatal.
I think a lot of the problem is their very success in one field does not necessary transfer over to another, but their orientation to their less than stellar performance does not change. That is, they use their focus and will to try to perform in a superlative manner in an area where they simply are not very good. Ron did make a good faith effort in his 10 days of training in the PC-12 but that lack of instrument experience is disturbing.
And their children had no say in it. It's terrible enough to have to die this way, but to also have to go through the minutes of sheer terror that the families and passengers did before dying, gets me every time.
Being rich seems to give over confidence. Like Kobe Bryant who apparently demanded the flight that caused his death and that of 6 others from a helicopter pilot that said the conditions were not safe.
@@Lehmann108excellent point. Not just rich people as I said but people successful in one thing falsely think they are better at another thing than they are. I see it all the time.
Props to Tim for trying to warn Mr Bramlage and even trying to model the proper respect for the aircraft, by mentioning that he himself, although a commercial pilot, was going to pursue more training!
I think the way he tried to warn him is also very telling:
He made the story about himself so as not to imply anything overtly, yet still plant the seed hoping it would yield some results. Sadly though it didn't seem to take.
Confidence is one of those swords that cuts both ways. There are times it can save your life and then times it can shorten it. 😢
Maybe what is needed is more instructors, controllers, and FBO'S who are willing to confront these a/c owners, buyers, and flyers who will speak more directly, that is, " You're not qualified to safely fly this airplane", "With your level of experience, you're likely to kill yourself and you're family if you fly single pilot" and from the FAA...."pilots with less than 100 hrs in type may not carry passengers and must pass a flight exam before doing so". Is your liberty to fly when you want, how you want, because your riches outweigh the lives of these of these 2 families, and countless more?? We're not doing anything to prevent unwittingly compliant passengers from trusting fat headed pilots who excel in one field and think it automatically transfers to flying.
@RedwingBB that is a common thread in aviation. Pilots that need training the most are the least likely to get it unless they are forced to do so, meanwhile, pilots that have gotten the most training are always looking for more.
Most low time pilots put off getting a non jeopardy flight review until the last second. Every pilot I have given a flight review to, I have offered alternatives and rarely are any interested because it sounds like more training. (it's not)
@@1Aviator71 lol, prepare to be told to pound sand. I have tried to convince airplane owners to upgrade their plane to shoulder harnesses. Nah, too expensive ! WTH ? ? ?
One thing that struck me about both of these tragic flights is the fact that the people on board must have experienced what felt like an eternity during which their aircraft was wildly out of control. The terror they must have experienced is heart wrenching.
Agreed, and certainly not condoning the father's overconfidence, but I imagine that "eternity" was amplified for him, knowing he was the reason his family was about to be no more. As a father too, and put mysself in his shoes in those moments is a reminder to be humble when family is involved.
Why do people like you make comments like that why is that are you a ghoul
Yes. It's so tragic and what horror they went through. 😢
What is wrong with you
@@vickycroft4621 You are a ghoul
My doctor just had a near miss crash in his plane. He just recently lost his beloved dog. He is an animal rescue pilot and was going on a rescue mission a week after his dog had passed. He even said he didn’t realize just how much grief played a role in his decisions flying that day until afterwards. The weather conditions that day were not ideal to be flying. Thank goodness he is still able to fly another day on his rescue missions.
An excellent observation. I operate an aeronautical dog rescue. I have made a couple of questionable decisions to expedite a flight because of the pressure to save dog’s lives. Now, I am more likely to cancel a flight. Better to have everyone wait and to make more rescues later than not come back at all.
smuggling drugs
@@davidbeattie1366smuggling drugs
@@JohnnyDanger36963 drugs….what are you talking about. He rescues animals. Why would anyone say something this stupid and disgusting.
Grief will really mess you up, you just can't be ready for it if you're fortunate enough to have never really experienced it. When I lost my partner I had no recollection of anything that happened the day of the service. I didn't even realize I had no recollection of those days until months later when another family member asked me about something we did that day. God help anyone around me if I tried to fly a plane in those days..
I once met a pilot/owner of a PC-12 and he said he went for regular recurrent factory safety training. He said they put him through the wringer and that it was VERY good training.
I wonder if they flew on a bad day ?
@@berniemccann8935 Maybe so.
Been through some of the best training providers that are around, they’re geared for the masses and leave some more to be desired. All depends on the background you have when you go in there for your training.
What is interesting to me in both of these accidents is the apparent lack of formal SIM based initial and annual recurrent. As a former aviation underwriter for 40+ years, when anyone was a new pilot in turbine class aircraft, I can't think of a single insurance company (out of maybe 5-8 available markets), that *all* underwriters would mandate formal SIM training, and in many cases required the pilot in this class to be accompanied with another pilot with turbine and Make/Model time for somewhere between 15-25 hours, before solo. With likely high limits of liability in addtion to a values on the aircraft in the millions of dollars, it seems very odd that _any underwriter would approve taking just some dual_ and that's it. It was common to meet underwriting requirements for Initial, and in many cases I'd require 15-25 accompanied, that included several x-county flights into high density airspace/airports.
@@donalddepew9605 Are you saying that Pilatus training isn't very good? I don't know. I'm just relating what I heard from one pilot/owner.
I cant imagine losing my entire family at once, including my sibling, the person I'm supposed to lean on and be for when tragedy strikes. My heart breaks for their surviving daughter.
Know your limits....friend of mine, she got her Motorcycle license, she was going out and buying a brand new bike, I told her, buy a 250 cc tour bike before you think of a Sport Bike, which she wanted, long story she didn't take any of my or others advice. She went to a Honda Dealership, walked in wanting a 250 but the Sales guy talked her into buying a 900cc R1 ( this gave him a big bonus ) her toes barley touched the ground, she dropped the bike once leaving the dealership, then a second time in the street at a stop light, 2 days later she ran a Red light unable to stop and was T-boned Dead.....
Whether it's a Tank Boat Bike Skateboard or Plane....BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF and KNOW YOUR LIMITS....EGO IS DEADLY...
I’m 61 and last week gave up my final bike, a Ducati Panigale V4 S….after 37 years of sports bikes and sanctioned racing as well, my skills were just not good enough for a 215 HP superbike. So it’s gone and I bought a 911 C4S, when I’m too old for that, it’ll be time to punch out for good.
Getting a R1 as your first bike when you’re just starting out is insane, I rode bikes , my last bike was a GSR 1000 K2 . I totally agree, as I have seen to many people with big egos with little experience buy big bikes then crash
This is why most civilized countries have tiered licensing for motorcycles.
@@jiyushugi1085 yep, but not in the usa. but we need to do something about driving cars in the usa too, far too many 'accidents' that go unpunished.
Just sold my ktm superduke. Can still ride good but to many close calls.
You are the most respectful, smartest person I have seen on CZcams. You really take on terrible tragedies with the highest level of respect and knowledge
I echo that sentiment.
Agree
Agree as well
Yes he is.
I concur. Stories told with professionalism and empathy.
I want to thank you for first of all getting the name “Nelons” right, but most of all being informative yet respectful. The most respectful video I have seen of this content yet. Again as someone who knows the Nelon’s family and friends….. Thank You!
I'm sure not the only one wondering if the body's of the crash victims were recovered or what
One of the first things my flight instructor said was that you are the pilot in command, and never feel obligated to get in over your head in order to keep to other people's schedules no matter how disappointed they are. There's always another time. So sad..
But often it's the pilot/owner who drags their hapless family/friends along, not a pilot feeling an obligation to get a client to their destination. Unless you're a complete tool, if a pilot says 'I'm not comfortable flying' for whatever reason, no sane person is going to get on the plane.
@@johnnowakowski4062 Pride and overconfidence are our deadliest enemies. Even in combat.
Yeah talk to Kobe about that.
And can you only imagine how excited the four kids were about Daddy flying the plane?
JFK Jr tried to please his wife ......they all perished
These stories have a common theme, too much plane, not enough experience.
There is a cowboy saying, "too much horse for a greenhorn".
Yup, like teenagers with a fast car. Same machismo. Same end results...
Although the PC12 is not a super difficult plane to fly... Not as fast as some of the competition, and certainly more forgiving than a light twin... It's a strong airframe. Sure sounds initially like he wasn't prepared to hand fly when the autopilot disconnected... Sounds a little like the TBM at Tahoe.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb you nailed it. These types of pilots indeed remind me of teens with fast cars. Sad that their failure to mature can kill their families and friends.
And too much plane usually equates to more passengers…..
Omg this is pure gold: if you can afford to buy expensive planes, you can afford a few bucks for an instructor to fly along. And any instructor will be happy to get turbine time. Ego kills.
JFK Jr
@@kookietherapy9398 JFK Jr was taken out. Very sad.
@@kookietherapy9398 He was flying with an instructor. He was shot down shortly after telling Hillary Clinton he was running against her for the New York senate seat. Bill Clinton, who was president, sent the navy to look for his crashed plane 250 miles from where it went down.
Ron Bramlage was the Worst kind of rich trust-fund-baby pilot anyone could imagine. He couldn’t be bothered to actually study for his private pilot written exam so he tried to bribe his flight instructor to take it for him. The instructor absolutely refused. I know this because we had the same flight instructor and she told me all about it.
How he passed Any of his check rides is completely beyond me.
People I know personally who flew with him rarely flew with him more than once. One of them, who was an instrument rated pilot himself, flew with Ron Bramlage down to Texas and back in Ron’s Bonanza, and swore he would never get in a plane with Ron again. I think his best quote was “ he was so far behind the airplane he was still in Kansas while his airplane was over Oklahoma.”
When I kept seeing the same PC-12 on our ramp I asked who it belonged to…I had the Picacho surprised face when someone said it was Bramlage’s. My next words were: “He’s going to kill himself and I just hope he doesn’t kill his whole family when he does.” Less than a month later they were all dead.
As a post script, Post crash, I heard from a 3rd party who knew his wife that she hated flying with him.
It’s been 12 years and I still get pissed that he killed his entire family.
Is it possible to rat his incompetence out the FAA for a impromptu checkride or something? Like if you knew of a terrible pilot, and think they will end up dead and killing everyone on board, is there something you could do to help prevent it?
He sounds like an alpha-dominant know-all who knew f-all. His poor family did not deserve him.
@@VickersDoorterYup. Mr Macho Man. I wonder at what point as the wings were ripped off he knew he was screwed.
He checked every box of how to fail at flying.
@@TheBeingReal When he saw one of his kids fall out through the crack in the fusilage?
Auto pilots on any aircraft will give up in extreme conditions. Knowing how to recover from such in IFR and probably an unusual attitude is the most basic skill needed for a IFR rated pilot.
I have been a commercial pilot and CFII since 1991. My wife died 2 years and 5 months ago and I still haven't flown since. I likely never will. I couldn't imagine flying 9 days after burying my daughter. The IM SAFE mnemonic asks you to evaluate your emotions and stress. The recent death of a close relative, especially a child or spouse, should give any pilot pause.
I'm sorry for your loss. A lot of times we don't know how impactful the grief is on our mental and physical capabilities. Thankful that you are aware enough to recognize that it may not yet be the best time to be flying a plane. Hopefully one day....
So sorry for your loss! 🙏🏻❤️
bro, she would want you to fly again ...
That is a $6.2 MILLION dollar aircraft. To have that much money "Extra" for a plane, you should always have a full time hired pilot to fly with you until you have many thousands of hours! RIP to all. SO tragic.
Another arrogant rich a hole.
I'm not a pilot, but it strikes me that many people can just barely handle a vehicle in two dimensions (automobiles), let alone in three (airplanes). It must take dedication, excellent judgement and endless practice to be a safe pilot.
I've seen a lot of videos describing how some don't seem to know how to keep the plane wings level if the autopilot disconnects. They have all the instruments avaliable but can't read that simple pitch/level compass. You would think that is the first thing you'd learn but no. You have everything there - speed, altitude and attitude. The ground is brown and the sky is blue.
Non pilot as well but I'm seeing a trend. Not just overconfidence but a reaction level to what would scare the heck out of me is met with a laissez-faire attitude toward unknown reason why the plane is behaving in an odd way. That woman and her Dad video seemed to just brush off that in many flights the autopilot's maneuvering was confusing to them and uncontrollable. In the final fateful flight the plan was porpoising and she had no idea why. No doubt this had occurred before during flight. My reaction would be alarm and fright to point I would need to determine wtf exactly is going on here and why. Hers was to basically ignore it as little more than a bother. Omg
If my pc reboots unexpectedly that's an example of a bother and not life threatening! Interestingly I'd still spend more time ferreting out the cause than her time on autopilot cause.
Irl I drove a 10 year old BMW for about a decade. Very reliable unil 9th year of ownership then the classic items needed to be replaced. Headlamps, new washer fluid pumps,cylinder replacement. Sensors warned me so car never stopped.
Then engine hot light came on after lots of driving it spooked me but when car cooled and for shorter trips never went on again. I wanted to bring to my mechanic but next day on short highway trip it went on and killed car engine. Once cool let me proceed few blocks at a time. THAT WAS IT , I never trusted the car again and had it towed to my mechanic. It was the water pump. OK, replaced and immediately sold car and now enjoy a almost new Audi. The point is I lost faith and realized more was to come in this 15 yr old bmw. I'm perhaps too conservative but I imagined if this occurred on expressway in zooming traffic late at night out in nowhere ville.
I had 4 seconds on highway to see light, feel loss of engine and immediately react from center lane to barely reach shoulder.
To me this stress needs to be acknowledged as serious wake up call. I didn't want to take any related risk if I didn't gave to. How can some of these pilots go thru what I consider far more extreme unknowns regarding their flight and equipment and not seek out answers and solutions asap? Perhaps it's tied to same mindset that made them pilots to begin with. But flying is special in that it can trick the, oftentimes, novice into a confidence level of their abilities (successful flights and awared a license so am good to go) until something happens.
The more I learn about flying from channels like this, I’d say there’s about 7 dimensions to master to fly safely, especially in a fast single engined, high tech turboprop!
@@lukeclemo3659 It's not really harder to fly a modern airplane than an old one, If the autopilot is giving you a headache and warnings or weird inputs you don't understand - then just turn it off.
It's amazing that they hand out pilot licenses like lottery tickets .
If the trainer doesn't like what he's seeing , he shouldn't be passing him
Thank you for doing this. I had known Kelly for almost 50 years. Kelly and her family were some of the nicest, kindest people you would ever want to meet! My heart breaks for Autumn, her husband and unborn child as well as Kelly's brother Todd and his family. May they all R.I.P.
You’re welcome and I’m very sorry for your loss.
My condolences for your loss. Please let them know they & their loved ones who passed are in my prayers.
They were MAGAts so who cares 🤷🏻♂️
@sam12587 thank you so much! That means a lot! They definitely appreciate all the prayers.
I met Kelly many years ago. She did a concert at my dad’s little church just for a love offering. Her bus got stuck and she was going to pay to get it out but my dad wouldn’t let her. The fact that they came with no guarantee of payment said all I needed to know about their character. She was a very sweet person. I’m praying for her daughter Autumn. I cannot even imagine what she is going through.
Hoover, I want to commend you for the genuine empathy and compassion that you express toward the victims of these tragedies and their families. It makes your videos all the more engaging when we all share the same emotions and reverence for those lost. Thanks for all your hard work in producing these excellent debriefs, we're all better for it.
I once found myself in very turbulent air on the wrong side of a mountain. Fortunately it was bright daylight, and I fought for wings level control and healthy air speed. I allowed the plane to “surf” on the air, trusting that ground effects would cancel out the severe downdrafts. Fortunately there were no serious obstacles below.
It was like being played with by a giant since there were no clouds; just wind. It would be very scary to be in bad weather.
Thanks for sharing that experience!
I remember covering this as a subject during study for the PPL and BAK. The winds does some interesting things of the lee side of a mountain.
I want to encourage everyone to please read the Bible and live a life for God and Yeshua !
I fly in tornados,Man Up!!
@Dub4Yah please, don't. Crash investigation videos is not the correct place to peddle your beliefs.
Mr. Hoover I have parkinsons--I have few things I enjoy--you my man are someone I enjoy -thanks for your hard work
I was a US Navy instrument flight instructor many years ago. I had students who had been evaluated by the Navy prior to becoming active in the flight program as the most qualified to come Naval aviators. In other words, these were the best of the best to become carrier based pilots of the fastest jet aircraft in the world. Yet, when faced with the controlled emergencies we instructors challenged them with, they could become totally disoriented and lose control of the A/C. If no instructor was available to take control and correct the attitude of the plane, a crash would have occurred. Eventually, the training would make them proficient enough to handle whatever we could throw at them, including placing the A/C totally inverted and then saying, "your aircraft" and letting them regain controlled level flight. Real instrument flying is the most challenging thing a private pilot will ever encounter. Sometimes there is no second chance to get it right.
Sir I see 22 35 15 18 pilots flying everyday at Elgin afb and it still amazes me what they can do
Can those types of instructions be mandated as part of the advanced certification?
@@trukenyanthere isnt much that can be done when someone can buy an overly sesitive peice of equipment especialy when they think they know better than everyone else its all downhill from here as they say nothing good can come out of a bad descision is it unfair that someone that has put in the time for this hobby cant afford a plane like this yes & no useually someone with this kind of $$ is smart enough to hire someone who knows better
Apparrntly these people thought above their ability & others paid the ultamate $$
Wow, that sounds like fun! Having the instructor invert the aircraft then say it’s your aircraft. Party is on and suddenly you are stone cold sober because the next action you take could kill you. Flight is fun but it’s as serious as a heart attack. Approach it as such!
If you can afford a PC-12, then buy 1st class tickets for you and your family on a chartered flight to the same location, and make it back ALIVE.
1st class on commercial is for the middle class. Rich folks have PJs.
@@jasoncrandall you clearly dont know what a "chartered flight" is, it's not a commercial flight
@@CrucialFlowResearch I’m a commercial pilot. I know what a chartered flight is. I fly them all the time. If you think first class commercial is first class you probably vacation at Disneyland. 😂
Your the one who spoke of a commercial flight. Original OP said 'chartered flight'@@jasoncrandall
@@larsvonrinpoche1229 there’s no such thing as “buy first class tickets on a chartered flight”.
I truly value and respect Hoover for what he does. As a vet I also appreciate his service. I am an ‘almost’ pilot. I had almost enough hours to get my private pilot’s license but when I lost my little brother I realized I was too emotional to continue. It was my lifelong dream to be a pilot but I knew I could no longer devote 100% of my time to flying so I stopped. I’ve watched hundreds of these type videos and I know so many of these people should have never flown planes.
Very, very sorry for your loss.
Well done for the self-knowledge to know not to fly.
Thank you for serving.
May your beloved brother RIP. 🕊
Not everyone is self aware enough or mature enough to make that tough decision. Much respect.
@@m.h.6499Thanks, it’s been almost 22 years but it still hurts. I know I shouldn’t be anywhere near a pilots seat.
I had a boss that would train people for free. I was pretty close to done but I lost my grandpa very suddenly. He was my most positive & supportive relative on all aspects of my existence. Family drama ensued. I recognized I wasn’t right in the right state of mind to do it and stopped going up. It’s a serious endevour that some take way too casually.
I’m so shappy try for your loss🙏Tou have wisdom to listen deeply and do what you think is right.
..."Just because one CAN.doesn't mean one SHOULD".
YUP. Happens All Too Often.
Hover, first I would like to say I love your content. I am a retired commercial pilot with aeromedical, law enforcement and fire fighting experience in rotor and fixed wing aircraft. I logged over 20,000 accident free hours in my career. One of my favorite jobs was flying the PC12 for a large aero medical company. I attended Flight Safety on both rotor and the PC 12. I would like to add these facts about the PC 12 for your general information. I loved the PC12 but I will tell you , I myself flew in several IFR missions where my autopilot disconnect in moderate turbulence . This is a common issue with the PC12, but it is manageable and like any good pilot your have to remember the golden rule; Aviate,Navigate,Communicate! in such you have to return to basics! The first rule for me was a license in your pocket, doesn’t mean you can tackle any weather or flight conditions. I set my own limits above posted ones on the charts until I felt competent. My company required a trip to Flight Safety every year. I was never pressured to accept a flight. If I didn’t like the weather or if it was forecast to be hard IFR with any icing or turbulence…. I turned it down. If snowing and the destination airport did not have de-icing equipment, I didn’t go. Night flights were only conducted at airports with weather reporting and an instrument approach. I flew every mission with a filed IFR flight plan . Thanks again and Happy Landings!!!!
Great and knowledgable comment [The first rule for me was a license in your pocket, doesn’t mean you can tackle any weather or flight conditions.]
Best comment on this thread. Plenty of well informed decisions have guaranteed you those 20,000 accident free hours. Every pilot should be able to say the same and let others know why, just like you!
Wow. Great post.
I came here to say this but you summarized it pretty well. I flew the PC-12 for 18 years. The PC-12 Autopilot will very likely kick off in moderate turbulence due to control forces exceeding it's limits. You have to be prepared for it/expect it. Hand fly, keep the wings level, adjust power to get under maneuvering speed, and ride it out. If it's severe+ turbulence just focus on level attitude. Don't chase altitude or airspeed. Don't fiddle with anything else (like trying to re-engage the autopilot.) Your scan has to be pretty limited at this point, focus on attitude is paramount. AVIATE. Navigate and Communicate can come later, there's a reason those words are in that order.
@@ryanroth5157 i wonder if new owners are being made aware the auto will kick off in light turbulance?
Worked for a Helicopter Company in the Gulf of Mexico oil field operations. One of our pilots lost his teenage daughter during his two week break "we worked 14/14" and the company had no policy to give him much needed more time off. He came to work still in shambles. Got in the aircraft and went to work. He crashed into the Gulf later that day due to fuel exhaustion and successfully autorotated to the water and all survived. He just never payed attention to his low fuel state, passengers said they say the low fuel warning and the pilot never saw it. Poor Guy should have never been in the cockpit! Now his career was ruined. These big companies are ruthless!
Yep, as my old helicopter instructor use to say- “the two worst things that can happen to a helo pilot. 1)waking up with a dead 13 year old boy in your bed and 2)running out of fuel”. It may sound crude, but it hits home cause there’s so many things working against you commandeering a machine with 50,000 moving parts, that something as elementary as fuel management, should NEVER be an issue. It will ruin your career, if not your entire existence!
seems there should be other people making sure planes have fuel
Grief is a red flag that doesn't seem to matter to some people. I've driven home from hospitals, funerals and even my vet with tears in my eyes. I stick to the side roads and have taken frequent breaks long before needed. It's not a question of "growing a pair", it's part of life and will never go away.
why did he not simply take 2 weeks off? It was not up to the 'company'; it was up to the pilot: if he felt unsafe to fly, he should have told them, and if they then tried to push him to fly, he should call the FAA immediately. He has all the authority in the world, given by the FAA, to simply say "I'm not fit to fly" and walk away. If they fired him for that, it would turn into a PR disaster for that company, and I'm sure other customers would be very angry also that the pilots are 'forced' to fly when they are not safe to do so.
@@jahnkaplank8626grief doesn't just impact your piloting decisions it can also make you make poor decisions and accept what your employer is pressuring you to do.
Hoover, you are the most fair and respectful person I’ve ever heard breaking down these deadly preventable, occurrences.
Thank you for being so sensitive to family & friends feelings while still being educational.
Poor Autumn😢Feel bad for all of their families, but especially bad for her. Unimaginable to lose my mother and my sister at the same time. You’re so kind, Hoover. Something I really enjoy about your channel
do you suppose she had a premonition?
Why would feel worse for her than those who died? Aren't the deceased ones the unfortunate victims because their lives were cut prematurely while the survivors the relatively lucky ones?
@@kunalsen2123the dead are dead… the living are the ones who have to deal with the pain
@@adotintheshark4848 she lives in Tennessee and the rest lived in Georgia. She and her husband flew out of Tennessee. She is also expecting her first child so probably not traveling as much
@@kunalsen2123Dead people don’t know or feel anymore!! How did you ever come up with this comment?
The PC-12 is quickly supplanting the Bonanza as the doctor killer.
You might start seeing Bargains prices out there on PC 12 too , im pretty sure that's why Dr's bought the Bonanza and bargain prices .
Yeah not even close. You need to look up the stats
Most rich folks are dying in planes
The common thread is the pilot and tragically poor decisions
Most poor folks don’t seem to have their own planes. I wonder if that could play into it? LOL
There is a moving video on CZcams of Amber at around 13 years old singing "Jesus, I heard you have a big house" so incredibly professionally and perfect in its rendition. I don't listen to gospel or kids singing normally, but this clip gave me goosebumps.
Thanks Hoover. You're always an essential watch.
If you can afford to by a PC-12, you can damn well afford to pay someone to FLY it for you.
but too arrogant to do so
@@InMyBrz It takes a big ego to be sucessful in the business world. Some transpose that ego to their flying abilities.
@JBliehall
This is why so many rich and successful people paint themselves into deadly corners.
They believe that their own sheer will can make things work out.
Witness the Citation crash on take off in Odessa this past week
Wealthy oil executive flies his own jet solo…but (probably ) left the parking brake on during takeoff. Got his PPL only one year previous to his crash!!
As a former Naval aviator, I am amazed at the bravery of some of some GA pilots.
Brave? No, Actually the Dunning-Kruger effect in full bloom. They didn't know how much they don't know.
You mean foolishness. I’ve seen a Malibu landing on an opposite runway to the prevailing direction without joining the pattern. Lots of people with money buy airplanes as status symbol but they aren’t proficient to fly them. There is a doctor in socal , ppl who bought a Kodiak turbine and caused havoc over socal ATC. Too much airplane for him but no one can tell him that 😟
@@2Phast4Rocket I was using ‘bravery’ as tongue in cheek understatement.
and INCOMPETENCE
I mean.. doesn’t Naval Aviation mean no cross winds, no obstacles on approach and departure, a plane with a ridiculous thrust to weight ratio, a bang seat, and a plane guard?
Most naval aviators would be shocked at what I can do with a 150HP single engine plane in extreme mountainous terrain. Been doing it for over 20 years.
Part of the issue I have thought in the past is people rely on the autopilot to much and never really learn to fly!
Much of what Pilot Debrief is saying about pilot training and confusion is applicable to driving a surface vehicle, particularly long distance. I like the part where he said, something like: “Just because you are legal to fly solo doesn’t mean it is safe”.
I work for a part 91 operator who bought a PC-12 a couple of years ago. Despite that all of our pilots have thousands of hours and jet type ratings we still always fly with two pilots. I’m told that the Honeywell apex avionics suit it quite complicated, and isn’t easily managed by a single pilot.
I have 2000 hours in PC12NG…. All single pilot. Still alive.
@@jasoncrandall but you have 4 arms. mutant.
@@jasoncrandall that's a strange brag...
@@mofayer how so?
@@jasoncrandall because bragging is an immature endeavor to begin with. Bragging about being alive takes that to another level. That coming from a pilot is a bit concerning.
I’m an old navy pilot, commercial airlines is best way to fly 🙏🏻👩🏻✈️🇺🇸
That's exactly what the surviving daughter did.
I read that Autumn and her husband and his parents drove to Seattle because Autumn is pregnant. It isn't considered safe for the unborn child for a mother to fly during pregnancy.
@@barbarajohnson8968 No that is Incorrect. She and her husband took a COMMERCIAL FLIGHT from Nashville to Seattle.
These Days, I'm thinking that Commercial isn't what it once was. I will only fly if I absolutely must, any more. I was born in 1952. My father worked for the Airlines and I've flown all my life. I'm a private pilot.
Moderate turbulence in a PC12 can and will cause the autopilot to disconnect. (4000+ hrs in such) If your not IMC proficient who will fly the plane when AP goes offline? Also know that, if speed dropped the pusher system likely kicked in and that is even more disorienting in IMC conditions. As much as you did not speak the words your point is spot on. A pilot must be able to use raw data to level and recover airplane.
how out of trim does it get, when the AP gives up?
@@matteob8676 it typically will not out of trim when that happens (unless it has accumulated ice unknowingly) so many of these accidents point to poor instrument skills - if a pilot can not hand fly in IMC it’s over in about 178 seconds. Ever watch video “178 seconds to live”?
@@siedan89 indeed seems most pilots in this situation try to troubleshoot the AP instead of leveling out
You are always a gentleman and very respectful when dealing with such difficult subjects. Respect to you too.
I went to College with Nathan Kislter and his sister, they were both in our friend group. I couldn't believe it when I read about the crash on the news. Nathan was a great guy and had so much going for him.
Too much reliance on automation and not enough stick and rudder experience. During my sim check rides, I was told by my sim instructor to use more automation because I was very comfortable with my scans and manually controlling the aircraft. 3200 hours flying a BE1900 for a regional airline with no autopilot , and "steam gauges" really sharpened the skills. RIP
When I was taking flying lessons I told the instructor I did not want to fly in a glass cockpit as I wanted proper gauges.
@@grandmarshal7539 too much reliance on humans.
It wasn’t the autopilot that destroyed a perfectly serviceable aircraft
This 👍
You're the kind of pilot I would have no second thoughts about flying with 💯
exactly
Much credit to you, Hoover - you handle these things with tremendous class and sensitivity while also drilling down into the critical information all pilots need to hear. Kudos.
Wow. This is the first time I’ve ever heard one if you’re videos. I love how simple you were. Keep it for us people that don’t know anything about being a pilot. Now it all makes sense, thank you for that. Sad stories… but good at editing and great video.I just subscribed!✝️🙏❤️
It's always sad to hear stories like this. Praying for those involved. One thing that stuck out to me is how important it is to know how to hand fly your aircraft and what to do if you penetrate some bad weather. I'm currently a private student and too often I hear other students talking about how "easy" it is to fly because they just use autopilot, not realizing the dangerous game they're playing with that mindset. Flying is fun, but complacency kills.
Again, my heart goes out to all the families dealing through these tragedies, thank you again for your debrief on both of these crashes, just so sad.
Hoover you did a fantastic job relaying the facts of this tragedy while being respectful to the families affected by it. Much respect to you❤
who goes and buys a PC-12 to take their family on vacation after only getting 19 hours of instruction?
ron
NOW, here's someone who gets it!
only a rich arrogant idiot
*A dead man does*
@@campervan7354A rich, dead man does…Having a lot of money was a curse to this family.
I am a skydiver and I have seen jumpers get grounded due to tragic events such as losing a loved one. Like Hoover said, everyone grieves differently, but still must be on the lookout for people to do strange things even when they appear to be perfectly normal.
I was novice skydiver, and I knew a guy who did his 1st jump while coming down off an acid trip. I was not there at the time or I would have reported him. I was there the next time he jumped, and I still reported him, but they let him jump anyway. (He was not high that time. I reported what he did the first time.) He had an automatic opening parachute, but I still thought they were wrong to let him do it without at least giving him a vicious going over verbally and a warning. Later on that company had 2 serious accidents and 2 deaths, plus one owner himself died in a questionable jump in S America.
@@cattymajivand the guy who did the recreational drug the day earlier that didnt effect your life…jumped…survived and lead a normal life…
So the point is; that you are dishonorably judgemental, make assumptions, don’t understand drugs, want to suppress freedom bc of that, and is wildly biased when it comes to things you dont understand? Did i miss anything? Thats literally all i got out of your comment?
You mad bro? You know that driving, flying, firearms ownership, and even skydiving are illegal if you are under the influence of a drug right? So being safe is somehow judgemental? So being reported for putting others at risk is "suppressing freedom?"
If it's a person's choice to take a drug, that is their freedom. But their freedom to take drugs, should not affect the safety of those around them. That is where their "freedom" ends. Did I miss anything?
Like that airline pilot who was upset about a friend of his who had passed away. He was actually depressed about it but airline pilots don't speak up about it as they don't want to be forced out of their job. This was the pilot who tried to pull the levers to shut off the engine during a flight. Then he tried open a cabin door. He had also taken some psychedelic mushrooms a couple of days earlier and it was still affecting him.
@@Rhaspun Yes and now he is going to make a documentary about happened to him and the choice he made with the mushrooms. He was suffering from depression from the death of a friend and no airline pilot is going to report his mental suffering to the company, much less reporting any anti-depressant drugs or other banned substances. Everyone can understand why those are no-go(s) to get into a flight deck. The good news is that he is starting some type of non-profit organization that will deal with pilots' mental issues, but he'll never fly again even though he wants to.
I've flown with drunk pilots (former F/A) and when flying on the combis, I'd be pouring hot coffee into those inebriated pilots in the front biffys. If I reported them, I would have lost my job, not them. Sorry to say, F/As are a dime a dozen, pilots are not. Pilots are human too but withhold their grief or whatever issue they're dealing with mentally, within themselves to keep their jobs. Think Germanwings and Silk Air (pilot suicides).
One son is a professional pilot for a private business corporation - he certainly can call in if he is not feeling well, physically or mentally, not commonly addressed by the Part 121 or 135 corporations/companies. His employer has not had an accident since 1964. Highly vetted pilots to be sure. They are treated like messiahs so to speak. For good reason too.
Love the Nelons! Beautiful people with beautiful voices. So, heart wrenching, such a tremendous loss and so sad for all these lives gone. Prayers for their families left to live without them. I know the Nelons are in heaven with Jesus, because they told the world that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.
As a mom who lost a child I can tell you you are not ready to do much of anything. Its proven that grief not only shocks the body but it shocks the brain. You cannot think correctly. You lose track of your thoughts, you can't finish sentences. You forget what you are doing. I've researched this and it was before the internet was a thing. So he should have never been flying a plane. I wouldnt even ride in a car with someone driving who is grieving. Its an overload on the brain.
I'm so very sorry for your loss. Unbearable is the loss of a child. You never "get over" it, the grief erodes you. I just finished a video by a CZcams anaesthesiologist who discussed the very real phenomenon of people dying from grief immediately after losing a loved one: the "broken heart" syndrome. You are not "yourself" any more.
I lost my Brother 2 years and 4 months ago. (Strange how no one speaks about a sibling loss.)
It was a tragic and unexpected loss. I'm still not over it and probably never will be.
I know that even now, I need to get legal advice before signing any thing after his death. Much less make any other types of decisions.
The past 2 years, I've been waiting for him to come home. Now I feel a desperation that I need to find him. I saw the same video about the broken heart syndrome. It's happening to me. I just wish it would hurry up. I have to find him, wherever he may be.
100%. So very sorry to hear of your loss. It took me a good 2 years to think clearly.
Agree
@@debbie4503 I was thinking of that as well when l was writing, having lost my 3-year-old brother due to maternal neglect when l was ten. It was only 60 years later that l was diagnosed with CPTSD, which finally explained a lifetime of neurological pain and autoimmune disorders - as @bekayezme said, it is an "overload on the brain", that can last a lifetime. 💔
Thanks, Hoover. Some of these debriefs are tough to hear. I appreciate you sharing these with us.
Thanks for watching!
An entire family. Man that's brutal. So many people are so badly affected by these two crashes. My heartfelt condolences and prayers for all those impacted. Truly devastating.
Note to rich pilots: There are THOUSANDS of aspiring pilots that would give anything for SIC or right seat time. Most will do it for a bed and a meal. It's called a, "safety pilot", and they can save you and your family's lives. Many of these pilots have lots of ratings and experience and just need to build turbine or complex time.
I DO that. I’m also a CFII and I like to teach. The first thing I tell my guys is that they MUST speak up and that what is wrong in a 172 is wrong in a TBM. There is a downside to this because of the psychology involved. An owner takes a low time guy who doesn’t have experience and then feels emboldened to take chances. The safety pilot must feel empowered to speak up and needs to know the airplane systems and procedures via ground instruction before flying.
In this (these) situations what is needed is someone in the other seat who is proficient in that airframe and has a command presence, if needed. Two newbies in a complex airplane is no better than one.
Best Comment!!!
❤❤❤❤
I was just telling my wife the same thing! At my airport I know if you put the word out you had a free ride for a safety pilot there would be a line for all the new pilots building hours.
You were very respectful in explaining both situations
Great job!
Step 1: Purchase an aircraft that requires great skill to handle.
Step 2:
Step 3: Enjoy! What could possibly go wrong?
Seriously, turbulence can disconnect the autopilot. Lacking the skills to notice and handle it can cause bad things to happen. I feel like too many pilots have become Uber dependent on automation and lack the stick and rudder skills to actually handle a beast like a PC-12! This is not a docile aircraft and it can be a handful to hand fly, especially if you never do it!
This one may have been really tough for you to do, but valuable lessons can be learned. Thanks again for your great content!
My pleasure!
What lessons? Common sense? There is ZERO NTSB information on the described incidents and the conclusions are speculative. Even though these videos are useful they can also be considered predatory as sometimes there is some blatant blame assigned without any valid information.
@@sirNemanjapro Did you miss the second half of the video that summarized several hundred pages of the NTSB investigation into that incident?
@@pilot-debrief he did
Can you imagine loosing your entire immediate family like that, my god how terrible that would be
As the son of a Naval Aviator with around 50 hours of flight time, I have been considering restarting to train for my pilots license. This series has had me seriously rethink my decision. Although I understand much of the aerodynamics and mechanics of flying and have a pretty good stick and rudder sense; the complexity of navigating; communicating and troubleshooting has really been brought home. To think all I did not comprehend when I flew 40 years ago (I am now 62) is mind boggling. My father always had a bias against non-military trained pilots; I am finally getting a better understanding of why.
I would think these videos would encourage you to continue. These videos highlight the fact that these crashes are extremely avoidable.
They are always caused by MEN ignoring safety redundancy, ignoring basic training skills, and ignoring help and option ion of other experts.
Just don’t be a megalomaniac, get proper training, file a flight plan, and ask for help when needed….and you won’t crash.
@@stedydubdetroit”Always caused by Men”….riiigggghht….🙄
As a ( helicopter ) flight instructor of 40 years, I'll both encourage you but also caution you.
The encouragement goes like this: if you learn in a basic airframe like a 172 or Warrior or similar, and stay in those airframes while you build experience, you're unlikely to get into trouble as long as you don't get overconfident. Get your private, and then by all means get your instrument rating, but don't think the instrument rating let's you use the aircraft as a reliable form of transportation. Keep getting dual instruction - when I was a private pilot, every fourth flight was with an instructor. Then dual for my commercial, CFI, instrument, and CFII meant a lot of my first 400 hours was dual. Flew with lots of different instructors and learned good stuff from most of them. But most of all, keep in mind that you are a real newbie until about 1,000 hours. So, only tackle stuff you're comfortable with, don't push limits too hard, and get a lot instruction, especially from very experienced instructors. ( New CFIs can be great, but there's something to be said for flying with someone like retired airline or military ).
Now the part where I throw a little discouragement your way... Your age is going to be a negative factor, and in more than one way. A 62 year old who's been flying for decades isn't going to have issues with basic airmanship, but a 62 year old will have a lot more problems learning the stick and rudder skills. It's far from impossible, but it's something you should recognize. Additionally, the average 62 year old is also going to have more trouble with the knowledge part of learning to fly. Even in their 40s, students seem to find it substantially harder to learn and retain the large body of info you have to learn.
What I would suggest is, take some lessons. If you enjoy yourself, keep doing it. But don't put too much emphasis on the goal of getting the license. If you keep making progress and someday your instructor tells you you're ready for your PPL, great! But don't be surprised if it takes you a lot longer than the young whippersnappers to reach your goals. It's just the nature of being older... But if you can afford the lessons, and you enjoy them, do it! If you're honest with yourself, you'll know whether you're making progress or not...
Go for it. You seem to be just cocky enough to get your ticket.
Military pilots are possibly the worst in single pilot operations I’ve ever seen. Coddling by help in the cockpit and flying the best of the best aircraft
I have no connection to aviation whatsoever. I enjoy these videos so interesting.
I'm the same. I've never set foot on a plane.
Me neither, except I fly commercial a lot. These videos settle me down a little as I'm hoping Hoover is my pilot every time I fly!
Same. It's very interesting!
Hoover's professionalism and sensitivity and the way he presents very sensitive data is without a doubt classic.
What I know about aviation could be written on the back of a postage stamp, but may I say - I love this channel. Thanks, Hoover!
I know that planes go up in the air, and make a vroom vroom sound. Is that right?
I can't believe these low timer / low experience pilots are getting insured in these planes with no formal training and no babysitting.
It may be tough, but it needs to be done. Hover! You covered many, many tragedies. To me, this was just another one that needed to be broken down. If some bodies' feelings get hurt, they can watch something else. Thank you for all you do!
Hoover, I think you covered this story very respectfully, as you always do.
Well said, 100% Hoover is a real asset to the aviation industry. Always 100% professional.
Really hard to imagine his mind was thinking clearly after burying his child only 5 days perviously.
I lost my son 6 months ago and I’m still not thinking well. Jesus Christ I seriously forget things all the time and get distracted very easily
@@Wareaglegirl9960Jesus does love you.
You’re always a very professional and respectful gentleman Hoover and you never come across as anything other than a compassionate man. What you do is a service to us all!
I’m an MD-11 pilot and we encountered severe mountain wave climbing through FL310 over the Chugash Mountains leaving Anchorage. We went from climbing at 3000FPM to descending at 1000FPM for 30 seconds, completely beyond our control. I can only imagine how dangerous this could’ve been for a less powerful airplane flying lower to the ground. This business is no joke. RIP to these poor victims in both tragic accidents. Very hard to listen to.
These videos over the years have really just taught me to never get involved with rich folks. They'll do whatever they please, disregard rules and regulations, and put other's at severe risk of injury or death because they think they're above proper training and preventative measures.
No T for president then.
@@Iwishiwasanoscarmeyerweiner Wouldn't that be EVERY politician and not just the bAd OrAnGe MaN?
Like Trump. All bluster, no muster
💯
@@Iwishiwasanoscarmeyerweiner💯
Love your videos, I’m a retired freight dog with thousands of hours flying Beech 1900’s single pilot IFR. For passenger operations under FAR 135 or 121 either a first officer or approved autopilot is required. Not for cargo or part 91 operations unless you’re flying in RSVM airspace. I’ll tell you that CRM and cockpit discipline is essential in order to survive that. Now that I’m retired, I watch several of these CZcams hero’s flying their own turbine powered planes. One common thread I notice is that there’s little in the way of CRM, cockpit discipline, and questionable decision making. Flying night IFR single pilot, with no autopilot in nasty weather requires this training and discipline. Great Video!!
I don't care how disciplined you are; flying night, IFR, in the weather in a single engine airplane as a private pilot should be forbidden, and that's a fact...
I agree, there are far worse things out there than things that go bump in the night, ATC, and the plane you’re flying. It’s a challenge to say the least,
@@donalddepew9605 I guess you missed my point, it's not a challenge It's just plain d u m b
That’s a matter of opinion but training and experience plays a very important role in this. Most pilots should never try this at home so to speak.
@@christophergagliano2051 okay kommrade . . .
I’m in a financial situation to pick up flying. This content keeps me grounded. You are likely saving lives everyday. Thank you - commercial all the way! Thanks again.
Thank you for the respect and sensitivity you show towards the families involved in this terrible tragedy. One of the many reasons this is my go-to channel for lessons learned from aviation tragedies.
If someone with much more experience warns you about something you are about to do, listen carefully. If multiple people try to warn you (ATC three times in this case), definitely accept that what you are doing is stupid and change your plan. In some areas of life, you can afford to be stubborn, take risks and make mistakes, but aviation is not one of them
Thx Hoover for mentioning this accident. Being a big Southern Gospel music fan I have watched the Nelons sing for many years.
Watching your videos is a part of my Sunday morning routine. I appreciate your great content and compassion.
I’ve been both waiting and dreading this video coming out. I’ve worked with the Nelons several times, and this situation is just terrible. It’s a lesson that everyone needs to know, you have to strive to be excellent in everything you do, especially when you have others lives in your hands. Autumn (the only remaining Nelon) and her unborn child lost everyone.
If a retired captain with 21000 hours tells me he's not ready, I'd listen to him.
I mean really... he had zero concern for others opinion or experiences
I think you are doing an amazing job bringing these incidents to light in the hope of educating others not to make the same mistakes.
Your respect in dealing with these tragedies is utmost in regards to those involved.
Your work is instrumental in saving lives and I applaud your efforts immensely ❤
Awareness buys time, time buys options - until it doesn’t. But objective truthful awareness is often difficult to obtain. Thanks for your insight and understanding.
Sad News....May Their souls continue to Rest in Peace. ref: @ 17:05, I was also in a Cessna Plane Accident; Pilot Error, and extremley grateful to have survived it, next day I wanted to get onto another Flight and was told NO, al I know was that I wanted to go back to my brothers. So it's true we process traumer & grief different. Thank You Pilot Debrief/Hoover for the Lessons we are Learning, even though it's from these unfortunate tragedies.
As other commentators have pointed, rich men can buy more aeroplane than their skills can manage.
To be fair, so can poor(er) people. Lots of videos of pilots killing themselves in cheap singles too.
Moving up to a Baron in 1994 was a big jump from single engine aircraft for me. I got checked out by an instructor qualified in the Baron and then built plenty of time in it with an instructor or another qualified pilot sitting next to me. And here I am.
Really appreciate the sensitivity and grace you brought to these stories while still dealing valuable insights to the pilot community. You are doing a valuable service.
For the life of me, I just can't get over all these rich guys who refuse to hire a competent pilot to fly their FAMILIES somewhere!
HE is the pilot. It's a status thing. He wants to fly his own plane. These people love flaunting their status in front of others. It's addictive and they never get enough.
It takes a big ego to be sucessful in the business world. Some transpose that ego to their flying abilities.
Corey Liddell did and he got killed. Some oeople are just unlucky....
There is no guarantee the pilot you hire is competent.
@@pingpong9656 There’s also no guarantee the sky won’t fall either. Your odds for survival improve tremendously if you are low time but hire a professional.
The levels of arrogance of Ron is absolutely staggering
MAGA!
NTSB report was released this past Wednesday (8-28-24) Turbulence did NOT play a role. Wind was 10 knots. Temp was 77• F. Visibility: 10 miles. The Auto pilot failed. The pilot declared an emergency and attempted in vain to gain control of the aircraft. I read highlights of the report in the newspaper, Cowboy State Daily. (8-30-24)
Thank you, as many note, how always thoughtful your repots are concerning the tragic lives of those lost in these accidents.
I have followed The Nelons all my life! Their dad started the group years ago Rex Nelon. I guess they are singing for our Lord now? We will miss them! God bless the families and friends left behind.
I just found this channel. The amount of recklessness some men have is astonishing.
Ive never flown a plane. Im an Automation Engineer and a 107 sUAS pilot. But Im smart enough to know my level of training in any given field and I cannot imagine making the decisions some of these men make…
An IFR flight with your entire family on board and under 4hrs of IFR flight time in the last 8 years…. Unbelievable.
This is the equivalent of thinking your kid is ready to drive on the highway because they’ve rode to school in an auto driving Tesla 3 or 4 times.
I hate to hear children were killed as they always trusts their parents to keep them safe from harm!
@bobbyg9662 That's the worst of it, the kids. They have no say or choice in the matter, but they get killed the same like everyone else.
10:17 with such little training, I wouldn’t allow this guy to walk my dog
Good one!!!
Your continued empathy and sympathy with the victims and their families is the great strength of your videos.
Videos like this work to prevent crashes.
Thanks to the FAA, NTSB and all the safety advocates, flying is safer every year.
Wishful thinking.
Not correct. Like all governmental bureaucracies, they're inefficient, and rarely make any actual safety recommendations. If they did, they would be screaming from the aviation, social and political rooftops about implementing AQP (Advanced Qualification Program) in General Aviation to stem the heartbreaking tide of unnecessary, mostly avoidable fatalities.
@@philalcoceli6328 FAA and NTSB have made some improvements in aviation safety. They could be much better, but they could be worse.
Hi all .. I’m salah from Jerusalem I’m in the process to become pilot.. I recently started to fallow this Chanel .. when I started watching this video I wasn’t paying a full attention until I sow the pic of my friend Nathen 😢!! I was in shocked and I couldn’t watch the video to see what happened to him hoping that he still alive.. but sadly he’s not .. I went to his page on Facebook and I couldn’t see any post indicating to his accident .. until I went to his dads … I met the family back in 2015 when they came to my shop in Jerusalem and we became friends .. I can’t tell you enough how nice is this family is RIP my brother 😢
I’m sorry for your loss. I’m sure you will be a careful pilot
Shalom shalom 😢 🇮🇱
Shalom Aleichem Salah - Know that we are praying for you there in Yerushalayim today, and for all of Israel. Joel 3:16. Your friend Nathan sang acapella the song: It Is Well With My Soul" in a church in Georgia, USA just 2 months before his death, on May 12, 2024 - it is available on youtube under the website title: 'Mount Holly Church" - so poignant and sobering to hear this.
first time here.... really good stuff
It's dangerous when you are 40 something, very rich, and have a perfect family. Something's bound to happen with that feeling of invincibility.
It might look like rich people have perfect families, but you have no idea what could be going on in private.
@@igclapp I know. But I didn't say all rich people had perfect families. Just examine rich Hollywood celebrities families for the evidence that they don't. I was saying that in this case it looked that way on the surface. The kids look healthy and happy but I know pictures don't always tell the whole story.