The Best Internal Wall Insulation for Old Properties?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- How I insulated my old property with a breathable internal wall insulation.
So after years of trying out different internal wall insulation systems at my old victorian cottage (which has no cavity walls) I recently decided it was time to find a more appropriate, breathable system. After exhaustive research I came up with what I think is the perfect retrofit internal wall insulation system. In today's video I explain why I went for the SWIP system, what it's benefits are and how I got on installing it.
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0:00 Introduction
0:29 Background
2:02 External Wall Insulation
3:47 Internal Wall Insulation
6:27 SWIP IWI System
8:34 Patreon membership
9:40 Install of my IWI
9:47 Prepwork
10:07 SWIP Studs
12:49 Internal Corners
12:58 Reveals
13:36 Ceilings
14:04 Sockets & Pipework
14:24 SWIP Batt Insulation
14:58 Vapour Control Layer
16:34 Insulating the Reveals
19:22 Pricing
20:07 Subscribe to Me!
USEFUL LINKS
SWIP training registration bit.ly/43Z6wMU
SWIP technical support bit.ly/4atyNxV
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- Irwin Jack 880 Universal Saw amzn.to/4aMUIj8
- Stanley Surform file amzn.to/49C1rvt
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#internal #wall #insulation - Jak na to + styl
Your stuff is absolutely cracking Charlie. As a young home owner you’ve saved me a fortune on showing me stuff I can do myself, and a fortune on knowing enough to tell when a tradesman is talking shite
Love it when u catch them talking bolloks!
Great video I so need to do this with my solid walls 👍
There are better ways. And cheaper too. Even without plastics, foil and all that tape...
@@alis49281Could you please explain ?
Good to hear that a manufacturer gives good after sales and tech support.
Another great video Charlie. I'm doing up an old stone railway cottage in Ireland, so very much on topic.
I did dry line a wall last week in another cottage and your tip for taping the socket box is a good one and I will go back and do that.
Brilliantly helpful, Charlie. Thanks for taking the time to put this together. Great work 💪
I’ll be installing this system at some point over the next few weeks. Really appreciate the video Charlie. Thank you.
Charlie I feel like we need more of the story of the emotional roller coaster you went through doing all this
Sooo happy to finally see a new video from you! I’ve been visiting your channel regularly hoping to find a new one but being sorely disappointed! Keep up the good work 😊
We used swip last year. Fabulous
Been waiting for this vid for ages! Excellent as always, looking forward to following this method soon. 🎉
Thanks Oliver. Glad you found it useful 👊
Well done!! Love all the detail.
Excellent video Charlie - I have a similar problem and this helps solve it 👍👍👏👏
Im in the USA and looking to add insulation to my “old” home from 1940. This is one of the best videos I’ve watched. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks so much - chuffed you've found it watching from the US.
This is one of the videos I’ve seen that helps you understand how to insulate an old house.
Thanks 🙏
Great video charlie. I've never heard of or seen this product before but it seems like a great solution for this issue with older houses. I'll definitely be looking into this system. 👍
Thanks. Yes it's a fab system. Really pleased with it.
Excellent video and has helped me massively. Thanks Charlie!
You're welcome. Thanks for the comment Tom 👊
Nice to see someone is dealing with this issue. My builder friend didn't know about this but did warn me about dot and dab to external walls causing damp spots to come through. We used instastick to glue up foil backed PIR boards and it's been OK so far.
The cable derating is no different whether it's in the insulation or not- it's all installation type A whether it's buried or just butted against with a board on one side to cool down as you've done.
Another great video Charlie- you'll need a new house to refurbish soon 😄
Thanks mate.. Yes I'm kicking myself I didn't mention the benefits of using foam with PIR/ insulated plasterboard. I've done a few videos on this now and forgot to do this on each. I think expanding foam would eliminate much of the issues I mentioned.
This seems very common to systems prevalent in warmer parts of the world, e.g. like how Scott Brown has been doing in NZ on his channel recently. Might have to look into it myself when we get round to insulating our house 👍🏼
Such a professional video Charlie! There’s content and there’s presentation- you nailed (or glued or screwed or foamed) both 😂!
I wish you’d done this video a year ago!
Same type of property and although no damp I suspect that’s because all doors and windows are wood. Cold areas everywhere! It’s an old coach house - though it’s conversion is only surface !
Just finishing off polished concrete kitchen flooring - it’s an interesting product.
Keep the vids coming!
Love that comment - thanks so much mate. Love the sound of the polished concrete too - bet it looks amazing👌. I've got a tiling vid to do - newly finished laying the monster 1200mm square porcelains. I think it's created a similar effect. 👊
I was so looking forward to this video ! Pretty much since the first insulation video you did. I got to say it was worth the wait. This is going to turn our old victorian house into a cozy home and I'm really glad I won't have to pay a fortune to have the walls lime-rendered. It's going to be so much better to have those smooth and flat plasterboard sheets. One questions though, what would you recommend for internal walls ? especially ground floor where rising damp might be an issue ?
So 10 years ago the builder did a not great job and you have built all this knowledge up since then.Well done, I had a heart failure start up instead!
A great video well done. That system seem well thought out. I particularly like the thermal break stud work. That is a clever idea. I agree with everything you say about the gypsum vs lime debate. think comments about gypsum plasterboard allegedly being non vapour permeable and not being applicable in period properties is a bit of new smoke and mirrors by the lime fraternity as a sort of mild scare tactic to improve uptake of lime products. I think you are absolutely right that you have to chose the right properties and the right type of vapour barrier for the right type of property and exposure. Also, occupation and how you manage moisture has a big influence on how much condensation may be generated within the wall and how much evaporative effect is created. There are some simple software apps that help you to calculate the condensation risk to test designs in a rule of thumb way. Its all a balance which I think you have got just right.
You can also add some ply in-between the OSB battens so you have a solid fixing surface all across the surface.
Yes you could do that - just making sure the screws you attach to the ply when you fix things to the wall don't penetrate the vcl
"whilst the ceiling board was, well...still a bit emotional" Haha. A nice reminder that whilst we always see Charlie in good spirits throughout his videos, there is undoubtedly many occasions of stress, swearing and no doubt some tears and feelings of hopelessness.
Yep there have been many of those moments on this job!! 👊
Great update, nice to see the move away from PIR on the whole, just need to work on your foam addiction next! 😄
A note about the tapes to say that they should be pressed into place with an applicator tool to make the joints fully sealed.
Like the insulated PB, I’m guessing the studs are also fairly closed to vapour, so it relies on the Knauf to breathe albeit slowly. And the Inteilo membrane helps regulate vapour. Very interesting and useful build out. I’m sure for your property it’s going to work well and will be warm! Like you said vapour plan especially in the kitchen is needed anyway. Excellent video Charlie! Thank you!
Yes that's right. Thanks 👊
Well done
Interesting video thanks Charlie
You're welcome Stewart, thanks for the comment. 👊
Great video.
Great video! Thanks.
Thanks 👊
This is more like a hybrid passive house refurb.. Great work and well thought through..
Thanks 👊
Excellent video
Thanks 👊
Well done.
Great video, and very timely as I am just researching IWI. Can you share what your eventual price per m2 wall worked out for materials?
Excellent information and job as usual Charlie. I couldn't help but think the expanding foam would prevent any vapour transfer as it is essentially water proof. Did you factor that into the design at all?
I really wanted to do this with my victorian house ... but chickened out and went for the much cheaper and easier Wallrock wallpaper instead. It's still made quite a bit of a difference, although obviously nothing on this. I couldn't find a single company who would give me a sensible quote for doing the job properly - something we really need in this country.
Great vid. Which nonstick foam gun do you recommend?
Hi Charlie isolated at 3600 ft.² single brick walls farmhouse 10 years ago, using the come out for Michelle system which looks like the one that your people are using. Since then, it has made a dramatic improvement to the quality of the environment in the house. It is completely removed any bold issues and we’ve had no problems with it. We did also add Underfloor Heating and did instillate the first floor too. Absolutely brilliant system not the cheapest, but if you plan to live in your house for any length of time then it is definitely worth it and I’m pretty sure Epc and reduce your heating costs significantly. I’m always amazed when I visit people who have renovated old houses, but haven’t considered insulation.
This is what happens when you post up after being in the pub all day.
Thanks for sharing 👌
🤣
I might be misunderstanding what you mean, but dew point is a temperature - variable depending upon a number of factors - not a place or area.
Can recommend the SWIP system. Used it one of our properties which was built in the 1840s. Brought the EPC rating up to a grade C from an F.
Thanks that's good to know. 👊
Hello Charlie. Glass-and stone wool are very normal to use in Norway. You're so right when you say it's easy to use. The difference between glass wool and stone wool (how we call it in Norway) is that stone wool does not burn. It can withstand temperatures up to 1000⁰c whilst glass wool starts melting at around 500⁰c and it can burn.
Thanks Alex, that's good to know 👌
Not sure that is an issue.
But what is is the moisture resistance.
Saturate both types and you will find Rockwool is far superior.
best yet. I have recently installed 80 mm polystyrene insulation on my bedroom / downstairs fairly modern 30 ish year old home in Portugal. NOTICEABLE improvement . Upstairs floors are ceramic tilled over concrete / gravel filled heat sink,s . So Impressed with the ceiling insulation that I am looking to insulate the outer walls from the inside . Ab small amount of mould has occurred in the outer corners of the bedroom ceilings / walls. If you fancy a look see please come out to Alvito Portugal for a stop over break / holiday . Airport pick up and loan car foc .
Thanks Richard. 👍
Hi Charlie. I’ve come across your Chanel, thanks for all the information. I’m not renovating but in the process of buying an old farm building that was converted in 2015. Never having lived in an old place like this before, I’m just nervous about the quality of the renovation bits that I can’t see. The wall insulation would be inside of course as the outside is the original brick. The survey hasn’t found anything….should I be worried about anything or look into anything more and how best to do this when I can’t see with my own eyes. Survey did mention patio had been built up a bit high to the damp proof course which is a slate course but nothing other than that. I’d welcome your thoughts if you have time in your busy day. Thank you.
This looks like a great system. Watching from USA where it's more an issue of keeping hot humid air out with cool conditioned air inside, but it looks like this would do well for that too.
Thanks, I appreciate you watching it 👊
18:02
it usually says on the can📝
allow 5-10mins for the foam to go tacky .
at that point it makes a rock solid bond.
(the product wont work as intended when still in liquid form)
Charlie, great informative video, I'm refurbishing a timber framed house which is space 'challenged', I've replaced the ancient 2 inch glass fibre insulation with 50mm of PIR, all joints taped, then I've used a product made by SuperFOIL as an internal heat reflective vapour barrier before installing counter battening to create a service void before fitting the internal wall surface. UK made, their Tech Support did all the heavy lifting of calculating the U values for me.
If I was doing a solid wall refurb I'd definitely be using SWIP, based on your great video and the product has all the features you'd want to avoid cold bridging and get a warmer house.
You've done a lovely job there. The difference must be extraordinary!! 👌
@@CharlieDIYte When its finished I will let you know how good it actually is - we are also going for a Vent Axia PIV unit in the loft and humidity sensing fans in the bathroom, there's no room for an MHRV unit 😞 VentAxia tech support have also been very helpful.
Thanks for bringing another option of breathable IWI to our attention, it's something I'm really needing on our project and this is possibly the answer. I was thinking of using woodfibre, but it requires a flat surface to bond to and like you (and most others) I don't have that. I'm a bit suspicious of the use of FF everywhere as I know it doesn't fill voids anywhere near as well as we think it does, but unsure how much, or if it does matter in this situation.
As regards lime V gypsum, it's not about whether one is more vapour permeable than the other (they both are and every building material is to a degree), it's that one is ruined by constantly having damp go through it and the other one isn't.
Every system has it's pros n cons and should be used or modified to suit the situation it's fitted into.
The good thing about this system (for us, not SWIP) is that you can buy all the components elsewhere and make it yourself, probably a lot cheaper - if you have the tools.
Yeah I was wondering the same regarding the gap filling behind the stud.
Another comment below had a great suggestion that the studs can be fabricated onsite, just buy the XPS insulation, osb and bond them together.
I wonder could you go a step further and bond a layer of mineral wool to the XPS. The mineral being compressible would fill the gaps against the wall.
@@kevocos Yes I was thinking of putting the wool behind the studs too, but it depends how irregular your surface is perhaps. You could also gun the foam on the back face just before finally fixing it to the wall. As regards making the studs you can buy PIR already bonded to OSB in sheet form, all you need to do is run the saw down it. You need to make sure you choose the right type of wool, IIRC one soaks up water, the other doesn't.
Multi-foil works fantastically well also, & other far infrared heating systems, similar to your IR underfloor heating 👍👍👍 Are you going to use, a breathable foam, in that door gap? That's what they normally use these days, don't they??
I went the PIR backed plasterboard route. I appreciate the breathability/moisture argument but will likely just fit a MVHR system to help remove any excess internal humidity
The issue with that arrangement (in theory) is damp/moisture that makes its way in the wall build-up from the outside may sit cold side of the PIR, layer and the MVHR will have no affect on the source of damp/moisture.
However In practice this may not be an issue in your particular situation.
Great video
Thanks Paul. 👊
Brilliant
Wow, Big Job. Would love to tackle something like this but know my DIY skills are a lot lower then my confidence to tackle such a job lol
That's the thing. Skills and confidence need to be nurtured at an equal pace. As one grows so does that other. That's how I started in this. 👊
Another superb vid. 1 week too late though or I’d have done this in my bathroom external wall 😆
@07:22ff Thanks for comparing the Mineral Wool with EOS to RockWool.
Excellent 👍
Thanks 👊
Hey Charlie, great video. Did you consider anything like an breathable insulated lime plaster system? I noticed you said in another comment that the exterior wasn't breathable at all, so an insulated lime plaster system which is directly bonded to the wall leaves no space for mould to develop. We had a conservation surveyor look at our Victorian basement conversion and they recommended this sort of thing (Rinzaffo MGN render + Termointonaco 2020 MGN insulating plaster + optional top coat of aerogel lime plaster + clay based paint). Apparently they use it in conservation in Venice on old buildings where moisture is a massive problem.
Well that's me in a tailspin again. I'd settled on a hemp and perlite hot lime render for my stone and lime cottage walls to replace the woeful (but not damp) plasterboard and air gap existing 'system' someone left me with. I haven't found any damp problems anywhere other than the bathroom (more idiocy there), so a lime render doesn't worry me, but this system is cleaner, faster and cheaper, although it won't reveal the beauty of the uneven walls though which I like.
🤔
Thanks for this Charlie. Great video as always. This new installation at the looks great, however, I do have a question about the OSB strip batons. Are they strong enough to hold any weight for fixings? Shelving/other heavy objects? With standard stud walls, they provide a lot of strength for heavy fixings.
See 7min 09 seconds for a pic of heavy shelves attached to the studs, looks pretty strong.
Nice. Interested to see know the gypsum plasterboard plays out over the years. Did something similar using Steico products, instead of plasterboard we used wood wool and a lime based render... been brilliant so far. More work and higher costs though.
Good work 👌
So I have a underlay with dpm going down on a concrete slab. Engineered wood going on top. I got the sealing tape for the joins for the underlay but do I also tape to the wall? No really obvious damp issue from what I can see.
With that much attention to sealing and moisture control, I have to assume you're going for a door blower test and some form of MVHR, look forward to seeing the plans as they emerge.
I'm going to install a single room MVHR in the utility.
Will this fix internal cold / weather wall in lower corner ?
I'm just wondering how you secured the plasterboard to the battens, did you screw through the intello? does this affect the membrane at all?
Also, thank you for such an informative video.
Thank you Owen
Owen?
Excellent job. So basically your tanking the house like some would with a cellar? Air tight box.
Hi, @CharlieDIYte Any thoughts on sound insulation into existing void space between floors, Floorboards top and plasterboard ceiling below. Limited access from above by lifting floorboards...?
To be truly effective you need to in full with rockwool but also decouple the ceiling as otherwise sound travels through the joists. I haven't done this so can't comment definitively though so you're best to Google this.
What thickness of insulated plasterboard would you recommend? I'm worried about the loss of space in my room by using the thicker boards, but will using the thinnest be inefficient at all?
hi Charlie could you tell me what the name of the best , fixing screws to outside 150ml installation kingspan to put up a 4x5 timber wall plate, putting up a lean to. with on wight polypropylene clear sheets ,
I've been restoring (not renovating) old properties for years. I do the exact same thing in areas that cannot be solved. I usually try to identify an issue and resolve it at source but sometimes you just can't win. I actually make my own studs using kingspan seconds and ply. Glue the two together as 8x4 sheets then rip with a circular saw to 75/80mm width studs, it works a treat and saves a ton of cash. Have you tried vapour barrier direct to the existing wall before the knauf fill to control moisture ingress to the batts?
Your vids are great, keep going!!
That’s a great idea with the kingspan
That is an excellent idea for the studs! I haven't tried that but I reckon the vapour barrier should be on the warm not cold side of the insulation otherwise you're encouraging the vapour to condense inside the wall. Remember it's the vape in the room we're trying to stop more than anything coming in from outside.
Brilliant idea making up you own studs.
What type of glue do you use?
@@kevocos I've used most things, silicon works super well, contact adhesive etc, it's only to hold the two together until you screw them to the wall. What I do also is pre drill the hole through the stud and jam a good glob of silicone or frame sealant in this hole to stop any moisture creep through the fixing..
@@tinfoilhat4837what thickness of kingspan do you use and any product names of the adhesive? This maybe a much better solution for those of us not in the UK
Thanks
Looks interesting, I'm currently installing wood fibre installation boards on my house. Surprised you haven't tried that one yet!
Thanks. Yes a few people mention this stuff. Is it going well?
Which Knauf Wool product did you use? I found NATUROLL PRO but it says its designed for rooftop could i use it as well in the partition wall?
Hello Charlie.
This is something I am considering myself but I am receive conflicting information. I am not being critical but do have a few constructive questions -
Do you not need a ventilation gap between the insulation and the outside wall ?
Does the outside wall not need heat from within the house to keep it naturally dry from the elements - rain in winter particularly?
Would it not have been a lot easier to build an independent stud wall from floor to ceiling so no leveling out. Also eliminating the possibility of moisture from the outside wall travelling in to the new work - ventilation gap prevents ??
Thank you...
A ventilation gap is only any use if you have air movement. It does stop the direct transmission of water which is why cavity walls exist and it’s a bad idea to fill them with insulation as you then create a bridge. All air has some moisture in it. The problem comes as the temperature changes and it starts to condense. The trick is keeping a route for more humid air as difficult as possible. Vapour barriers are actually vapour retarders that slow down the transfer of air. You are unlikely to get a house airtight, but can reduce the transfer and therefore reduce the risk of moist air hitting a surface that is colder than its dew point. MVHR is the gold standard in a well sealed home. It it were me I’d consider Stormdry on the outside, MVHR and vapour barriers with insulation.
Hi Charlie, at 13:14 did you use a particular type of expanding foam for filling in behind the studss or will any do?
From memory SWIP say in the instructions it has to be a non solvent based foam I think but I basically used a mixture of adhesive foams and gap fillers. Worth checking though when/ if you get the system but a gap filling foam will be fine.
Hi Charlie. Help!
I have a wimpey nofines property with a concrete slab cieling. The house has an appex roof then concrete slabs with concrete joists running across. Then over half a foot of space between the slabs and plasterboard on the cieling. The plasterboard are nailed into the concrete joists running across with the over half a foot of space.
I was looking into getting external insulation, one builder suggested putting celotex boards between these joists. And another builder said to leave the roof alone as any insulation would cause damp since only half a foot space.
We have not broken into the loft space due to the concrete slabs, in case it affects structural integrity etc.
Any truth to damp issues, would you leave the cielings and just do external?
** also the rooms have wall vents, one company suggested window vents in the double glazing whilst the other sud they would just leave those vents as they are and extend them etc any suggestions
Thank you
Double thumbs up for Charlie's presentation and application of a fantastic system. Thumbs down to the ignoramus who fitted the plasterboard with dot & dab for a previous owner.
Thanks 👊
Similar to how I done my IWI.
After a lot of research I settled on 75mm studs set off the wall and squared up, full filled with 100mm treated sheep's wool. Then the intello membrane followed by 50mm horizontal battens to create a service cavity which I then filled with 50mm wood fiber batts (steico flex) and finished with regular plasterboard and a nice fairly breathable paint. (Not full on clay paint but definitely not a cheap plastic paint)
Has worked a treat so far.
What a great system - thanks for sharing. Yes I forgot to mention I've used a Jonmatt matt emulsion which I think is one of Johnstone's only breathable emulsions.
Sounds like a good job you have done.
Can I ask how did you satisfy yourself that regular plasterboard would be sufficiently breathable? (given all the other components of your buildup are very much so). And did you skm over the PB with gypsum?
I'm completely sold on the benefits of woodfibre and sheeps wool and I would like to use regular plasterboard and gypsum skimcoat but so many people seem to advise against it.
@kevocos I don't have the research to hand but as far as I remember there is enough vapour permeability and buffering in gypsum to work considering where it is placed in the wall build up.
If it was up against a cold wall it will get overloaded and saturated and then fail but on the very warm side of the build up there are no issues along with regular skimcoat and a good emulsion.
I also used hemplime and hemplime plaster that I mixed up myself to patch in around windows and in tight awkward areas.
@@brycon232 Yes makes sense.
Like the idea with the hemplime around the window reveals. I think Charlie has done a great job but I wouldn't be a fan of foaming insulated PB around the reveal.
How far did you set the 75mm studs off the wall? Did you use anything say chicken wire or something to stop the wool falling out the back onto the external wall?
I was thinking of doing 100mm stud with the Knaff rockwool and vapor barrier followed by standsrd plasterboard taped & jointed?
This is excellent as this was my very concern in an old cottage, would you put this system directly over lime plastered walls?
Yep no reason why you can't if they're dry
Hi your absolutely great with your info ! Personally I'm building and externally insulating .how would u insulate or dry line the inside wall if it were u ?
Thanks. Not sure what you mean. I'd do it like I've done in this vid?
Builder from Belgium here. We alsof use pro clima's intello plus. But use blown in cellulose. And normal SLS or CLS studs. I'm personly lookinh into hempcrete. Maybe u find it interesting to?
@13:59 you mentioned not insulating where the joists intersect with the internal wall can you elaborate on why? can this cause moisture retention issues around the joists perhaps?
It's actually the external wall. Yes the point was they're not tanelised and SWIP were concerned that any moisture travelling up through the ceiling could get into the joists and rot them if there was no air circulation. If in doubt give them a call if you're using this system.
I have done extensive research into IWI in solid wall construction as I have 130 sqm to do on an upcoming project, tbh I am absolutely sick to the teeth of reading about it and trying to decide which system to use.
The SWIP system looks promising and I may even use it myself however IMHO woodfibre boards and a lime based finishing plaster should be regarded as the benchmark, I believe it is the system that is least likely to suffer from interstitial condensation.
But every situation is different and SWIP may be totally satisfactory in many houses, certainly those is low exposure areas of the country.
Correct. Woodfibre with lime plaster. Fully bonded with vapour open adhesive. Very simple and most effective at dealing with moisture.
Or you go hemp lime solid plaster
..but does it achieve the same insulation value, for a similar thickness.
I live in a terraced house wpuld I have to do all walls or just external walls? I had thought about doing this with a normal stuff wall but I like the idea of this stuff
Just external.
Have you looked into Steico wood fibre internal insulation boards? They should be suitable for older houses as well, basically they can be plastered right onto the brick because the claim is that the board is structured in a way that allows capillary action to wick the water away from the wall and to the side of the board which is getting heated.
I done a room in my house with this or actually it was the Gutex version.
Never plastered before but I managed it and it came out great. Mind you I got a plasterer to do the finish lime plasterer.
Clay based paint to finish.
It's a very very pleasant and warm room. You can tell it's an airy and warm and healthy room to be in however.....
It was very expensive to do in the end and couldn't justify to do the whole house that way.
Thanks for the info, yeah its not the cheapest, but I only have few walls which cant be done externally so in those few places I wouldnt mind paying more to get it done nicely with this.
So to clarify you didnt use any sort of vapour control/barrier layer, just plastered the wall flat, slapped the fibre boards to it and then covered with lime?@@brycon232
You need perfectly flat walls to bond wood fibre boards to.
@@lksf9820 not really.. mine was far from perfect but there is room to level out with the breathable adhesive you use for bonding.
If it's very bad you can level it with a scud coat of lime plaster.
I'm struggling to see the difference between this and the Kingspan system used in the bedroom other then the VCL. I expect the PIR and stud system with a VCL is going to be a lot cheaper.
It overcomes cold bridging but the at those thicknesses of insulation the difference in the R-value between a normal stud and the insulation is not going to be enough to result in a condensation problem on the cold bridge.
Given the Insulation should be behind a VCL in both systems the vapour permeability of the insulation won't matter.
If the VCL fails and the vapour permeability of the insulation does become a factor then surely a less vapour permeable insulation would be better to prevent interstitial condensation occuring on the wall behind.
Perhaps I missed something in the video?
I also think the thermal massing mentioned at the beginning goes both ways. A lot of thermal massing will sap heat out of the building and make the internal temperature a lot less reactive to turning the heating on/up. Works better in hotter countries to prevent overheating.
I hear woodfibre or cork is the best products to use.
I'd like say that continuity of the vapor barrier is not critical for vapor diffusion (ie the insulation backed plaster board), but it does have a significant impact in air borne moisture movement which can transport significantly more moisture to a condensing surface than vapor diffusion.
In the example of the insulation backed plaster board, as long as all the board is finished well, it will be air tight, with the foil providing the vapor barrier. However, when is the bottom edge of plaster ever finished nicely? That could be a major source of air movement.
A dedicated air and vapor control layer like intello is a much better way to approach it.
The second consideration with the insulation backed plaster board is that you will have a lot of moisture drive inward thorough the masonry. That will be trapped by the vapor barrier with the only way to dry out being outward. Depending on the water carrying capacity of the masonry and whether it had time to dry out sufficient before another water event occurs will determine whether there is mold and other moisture issues in the wall.
To address inward water movement through the masonry, proper exterior bulk water management is key.
Apologies of my terminology is off, I'm visiting from across the pond. : )
Love the masonry building content from England as yall have a much better understanding of solid masonry structures than we do.
Thanks, yes that's a good point I should have mentioned. Also you can reduce this concern by using foam adhesive rather than plasterboard adhesive which creates a better vapour barrier around sockets and breaks in the board.
Lots of our structures were originally designed to be clad, the Victorians took it all and now still to this day we are struggling with damp solid walls.
Cork spray insulation is the best product Ive yet to find. Incredible properties and 100% natural. Can be used internally or externally and combined with cork boards for natural superinsulation. Breathable and waterproof. Works out around £60 per sqm.
Thanks for sharing 👌
Where do you buy and wiuld it work on a stone cottage internal walls ? It currently has lime plaster internally no insulation and is getting awful black mould and the cottage is freezing even with heating , humidity is really high..
Thanks so much Charlie, so much conflicting information out there. I had a suspicion there would be a solution to breathable walls other than the full eco route, or spacetherm, both very expensive. Your cost per sq m would have been a great additional bit of info.
Spacetherm told me that they treat thin layers of wall plaster as breathable, so try to keep it below 2-3mm, basically a skim coat. All the more reason to get those walls plumb and flat. But they recommended MgO board instead. Did you consider MgO board instead of plaster board? If so why did you decide to go plasterboard in the end?
Probably worth always highlighting that the moisture can come from outside in as well as inside out, so sorting out your external moisture sources, e.g. good drainage and/or water repellent creams on highly exposed walls is also essential.
The real secret to this type of system is the vapour control membrane being on the warm side. The moist internal air can’t condense behind the plasterboard as it is still too warm (above dew point), and any moisture that is pushed through from the external walls will warm as it reaches the plasterboard and again not condense.
Provided the costs are acceptable (they looked it from what you showed) I’ll be using this system for our next home. Thanks so much again!
Agree with all that but my understanding is that any external bourne moisture may condense on the cold side of the insulation,. The likelihood of that, and whether it would be a big issue, is something I'm trying to figure out before I'm sold on this system.
@@kevocos it would condense first on the cold wall, which I suppose could wick into the insulation if in contact. The idea is that without so much additional moisture coming from the house then this is less frequent/ less likely. But as I say, it’s also reliant on minimising the amount coming from outside by dealing with drainage and ingress from prevailing weather.
You then have to hope that with both moisture fronts managed the balance will be that during dry periods the walls dry out enough to avoid high humidity inside the wall during cold periods when condensing can happen. I would think in most situations that would be the case with this system.
But there is a moisture balance simulation model that was developed by German researchers that looks at all factors and can advise on the level of vapour open system needed in any one type of construction in a specific geographical location and orientation. This is the good standard means to assess different internal insulation system, but not many have the skill to use it and so it’s a costly analysis. Sorry I can’t recall what it’s called off the top of my head.
@@stephenshapcott1353 I think the relevance of the basis of that German research is missed in most reviews of IWI system, that being the effect that geographical site location and wall orientation has on the effectiveness of each IWI system.
IWI discussions are usually along the lines of "this/that system works/doesn't work due to these differences in their respective buildups".
Whereas in reality the performance is more so as a result of where the house is situated and it's a wide spectrum; from a south west facing wall on a house in the highlands of Scotland to well shealtered gable nestled in a terrace in London and all in between.
Good video but what was the total cost to do the room ? The property I've restored needed this in every room, 3 receptions, 6 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms. I went down the Dryzone injection system route for the rising damp. Stormdry for the penetrating damp. Then the tried and tested dry lining of the walls. This being Sisalkraft building paper as a moisture barrier, 50x25mm battens on top. 25mm Kingspan insulation in-between the battens, then on the exterior walls, insulated plasterboard, uninsulated plasterboard on the interior walls. The building paper was, at the time £45.00 for a 50 metre roll, a big difference to the £245 for the membrane you used.
Guess what I'm trying to say is, it all depends on your budget. If you can afford these systems great, but what if you can't ..
If you can't then you've done a shoddy job.
Did you consider cork panels ?
Great Video Charlie, Question for you as I am doing a large renovation project here in Ireland and back to a shell. Have purchased 72mm PIR Board and have much more needed but I could change direction with the method in this video. Do you recommend internally and externally insulating at tge same time or will this counteract wach other? I was going to externally insulate at a later date but now you have me double guessing myself?
Thank you
Yes they'd counteract each other. Ideally you should just externally insulate. Both, and you lose any benefit of thermal massing from heating the walls internally
@@CharlieDIYte thank you for thr response, very much appreciated.
So I would be best just insulating the attic then and externally wrap the house? To me it appears lots of people externally and internally insulate homes but nobody really talks about this or the negative side affects? Worth a video on?
Thanks
Is this suitable for an external open porch?
Hi guys does anyone know if the aerogel backed plasterboard is a breathable product? I wanted to fit this to my house but it doesnt have any cavity. If anyone has used this type of stuff previously let me know, it is expensive but its less than 20mm thick so its great for tight spaces. Thanks
Above your door, have you got a cavity tray leading to weep vents on the external wall? This will help remove the moisture and stop it staying in the cavity
No because there's no cavity. It's just a two course brick wall (victorian).
Do you or anyone know how to then hang shelves or cupboards onto the insulated walls? Do you need special wall plugs? Should you drill into the swip studs? We want to hang somewhat heavy shelves that will hold glass jars full of grains and such. Thank you!
You can screw into the osb of each stud - they're positioned at 600mm centers. Alternatively, design yours so that you've got studs wherever you want to position something heavy
I went for external insulation. Biggest problem was having to extend the roof. But then I put on 24"/600mm of mineral wool insulation. Ventilation/draughts is the biggest problem now,
I can't help but think the studs and foam against the wall will keep moisture locked in at those specific locations? Or does the moisture naturally want to move? If it does, why didn't it move on the dot and dab wall? Beautiful craftsmanship as always but still a bit dubious about the system!
The moisture you're worried about is mostly coming from inside the house not outside although I should have mentioned that the house is Tyrolean rendered. It can't breath externally which was another reason for wanting to go with a breathable system.
Just out of interest.. does this feel warmer then the other room with the pir insulation?
I am trying to work out what to do with a 1930s exposed building . It was originally standard cavity construction. Cavity filled with fibre blown insulation in 1980s , being in exposed area not a good idea .
However since then Cotswold stone , genuine not panels has been applied externally .
So now we have stone , lime mix cement behind , brick wall , filled cavity , internal brick wall now exposed .
Question now is how to insulate this wall to avoid what I anticipate as being the need for the wall to breathe .
Sorry last para doesn’t make sense , I anticipate the internal wall needs to breathe and how to insulate it whilst giving it the ability to breathe is my problem
Why would you not put PIR between the joists? It seems like the innovation here is the insulating stud, and extra insulation value can be gained by not using the Knauf, but PIR instead.
90mm of the mineral wool is and Rd of 2.55, and 90mm of PIR is 4.09.
Why not just use aluminium backed PIR and then tape up those nasty gaps between, then cover with OSB?
I'm about to insulate a brick walled workshop and this was going to be my method.
The only advantage of this system over my idea is the wool being easy to run cable over, whereas I am going to have to run wire through PIR.
Keen to hear thoughts about this.
A bit late to respond, but breathability would be my guess.
Charlie, with respect plasterboard is not a good choice; yes it is breathable, BUT, it is calcium sulphate (gypsum) which, along with the paper face, attracts moisture and holds on to it, worse still it is a great nutrient to support mould growth; two very good reasons for not using plasterboard.