What If Nazi Germany Had Won The Battle Of Britain? | Real Fake History | Timeline
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- čas přidán 18. 09. 2020
- In September 1940 the Nazi march over Europe was halted when the brave “few” of the RAF defeated the German Luftwaffe in the skies above Britain. The RAF’s victory in the Battle of Britain was a turning-point in the Second World War, fatally weakening Germany’s airforce, dealing a psychological blow to Hitler and laying the groundwork for the Allies’ return to France on D-Day 4 years later.
But what if Britain had lost in 1940? In the first episode of a new series, historians and experts will explore what might have happened if history had turned out differently. What were the Nazis’ secret plans to invade Britain? Would Churchill have gone down fighting? Could Britain have struck a peace deal with Hitler?
To learn more about the new Battle of Britain Display at the RAF Museum London, please visit:
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The best way ill P Loop mop and I am Pol Mil to lget llama lol
The real game changer would have been for no battle of Britain any fight at all gives Germany a loss in Russia. Avoiding an industrial beat from bombing and a loss of air craft is the only thing that gives him a win against Russia. Like any lend lease was ever paid back to the U S. By any Country. That was the hope of the U.S Bankers that pushed the U.S. into the war.
@@mathieuditchburn1430
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Wow didn’t know joe Thomas was into history , a inbetweener is a history buff 💪 love it
ooo friends! haha
i think he did history at cambridge..?
@@italianstallion9170 He comes across as very well educated!
Yeah, I was just listening to the introduction on headphones without looking and though 'haha, "Joe Thomas", that's the same name as that actor.... wait, actual Joe Thomas, cool!'
Turns out he’s the briefcase after all 😂
It is fairly accepted that Operatoon Sealion has no chance of success even if the Germans had won the Battle of Britain. Military experts from Britain and Germany set up an extensive wargame in the 1970s and the outcome was that while Germany could have landed some divisions very quickly they would have been cut off and forced to surrender.
You mean like what happened going the other way on d day?
@@GuinessOriginal The Western Allies had vast superiority in the air and at sea in 1944. The Germans had neither in 1940.
@@GuinessOriginal Everything was different on D Day . Lots of landing craft of all types . Germany had almost nothing for an assault on an enemy held coast . They had no way of getting a tank onto a beach .
The Royal Navy would have done terrible damage. It's a pity they didn't attempt it. A bit of payback for Dunkirk.
@@michellebrown4903 they wouldn’t do terrible damage now 😂
@@GuinessOriginal. What have you been drinking?
Did you ever research the landing craft on D Day as opposed to what was available to the German army?
Many alternative histories seriously underestimate the Royal Navy. That was where Britain's true military strength lay. Her army was small compared to most European countries, though highly professional. The Royal Nacy was still the most powerful in the world at that time. Even with air superiority by the Luftwaffe, invading Britain would have posed an immense challenge - the Channel is a very significant natural barrier, and in defense of Britain, the Royal Navy would have thrown everything it had into the battle. The German Kriegsmarine was small by comparison - Germany was a land power, not a maritime one. In fact she did not really have the naval capacity to carry her army across the Channel, the flotilla being assembled for Operation Sealion included many adapted civilian ships. Transporting heavy equipment would have posed an even bigger problem. The British Navy could have inflicted tremendous losses - and of course, the Royal Airforce would still have existed and again, would have thrown every available fighter into the battle.
Spot on
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Yes, but this is an alternate history in which Britain lost. Surely that means the Navy was beaten conclusively
Ships were outdated by WWII as was conclusively demonstrated by both the sinking of the prince of wales as well as of bismark.
Having control over the sky is the very definition of total victory. The English navy would have been bombed into oblivion. There is no way the English navy even makes it into battle, let alone the channel. It would have been suicide.
Simon must have done really well in his A levels
Simon and Will both went to Cambridge in real life, they're definitely clever clogs
Ooooooo friend!
Simons done well for himself after Carly left him I see
Many experts have considered this question over the years. As others have mentioned, it has been wargamed extensively, and the overwhelming conclusion is that it would have ended in disaster for the Germans. They did not have a practical plan for the invasion, they did not have the sealift capacity (or experience) and they did not have the airlift capacity either to transport supplies to their invasion force even IF they managed to get ashore. They treated it like a big river crossing - but the channel currents mean that they would have had to spend 18 hours in flat bottomed barges - The RN - which had a massive MASSIVE numerical superiority (I think young people today do not appreciate how huge the superiority was back then) would have raced through the invasion barges like wolves - even the wake of the destroyers would swamp the low freeboard barges. At night time the luftwaffe could do nothing. During the day the RAF reserves would be brought down from the north to protect the RN - and actually the luftwaffe statistically were not very successful at attacking manoeuvering high speed destroyers (see Dunkirk - the ones that got sunk were stationary) - oh and they had virtually no torpedo attack ability. Even if they did attack, chances are the RN destroyers and MGBs and MTBs would be amongst the German barges and troops so they would be bombing also their own. The RN captains knew full well the stakes and wrote letters home stating that they would sacrifice themselves if necessary.
So, even if they got ashore - what then? Suffering from exposure, seasickness, loss of equipment they have to assault pre- prepared defensive positions with light weaponry, and local forces with heavy weapons would converge on them.
The barges that took them there (if any survive) would have to spend 18 hours or so going back - while under attack - load up the second wave / supplies and make the same journey back.
The JU52 transport fleet just wasn't enough to supply any decent force by air. This also means capturing a (well defended) airfield, so often touted as a "gotcha" solution, means nothing really.
The wargames mentioned - the ONLY way any German force actually landed was by "cheating" and magically moving the RN out of the way for 48 hours. Even then the German force was totally defeated within days.
It was never going to happen - and the German commanders knew it really. They were hugely relieved when the plan was abandoned!
A lot of typing for a lot of BS
@@MazzBCD Thanks for your input. I would suggest you have a read about the subject in depth.
@@gediredi2 Dunno why you got that reaction above Ged, I thought your analysis/description was good.
@@frostyrobot7689 Friedrich is evidently a Wehraboo
You may be right, certainly valid points. That being said, the French army was in many respects as strong or stronger than the German army in late 1939 on paper, and I'd imagine there weren't many war games that would have predicted a complete French collapse to the Germans in a matter of weeks to minimal German losses.
In light of that, and a feeling that nothing is guaranteed in war, I can never quite convince myself that the outcome of a German invasion could be predetermined. If anyone has book recommendations on the topic I'd find those very interesting.
Two words: Royal Navy.
Exactly, the navy would have absolutely obliterated any landing force coming over.
@@joeynyesss1286 and the uboats would have sunk some of them. The Allies successfully kept most of them out of the Channel crossings in 44-45.
@@donaldball9265which uboats? There were not near enough boats to do even a smidge of damage to the home fleet as early as 1940
Bring back the RN!
@@joeynyesss1286 not summaries or uboat
The knowledge from everyone is outstanding. Loved it, and alternative realities are always fun to explore.
This is bad history. The Nazis never had any plans to invade Britain.
Excellent discussion, something for everyone from those new to alternate history to the old hands chatting this for years. My Dad went "overseas" in '40 to serve in the artillery. They were tasked with home defence and later formed into a heavy artillery regiment for the ETO. Well described in Nicholson's book "More Fighting Newfoundlanders."
@si james hating on something enough to leave 50 comments and laugh at anyone who likes it makes you even bigger of a fan than they are :) how sad !!
This is, by far, the best channel on CZcams. Granted, it takes a certain type to live this channel. But I could miss the end of the world by bit paying attention outside and going through all the videos on it :D keep it up, this is absolutely top notch documentary work.
This was fascinating. Well done to all involved
This was memorizing and fantastical. You and your guests are so well versed in history and eloquent in their delivery. Bravo.
Really interesting to muse over the potential turning points but it brings me back to my eternal gratitude to those brave resilient and selfless people who gave the ultimate sacrifice! May each and every one of them rest in peace ♥️
And now you're invaded by Afghans on dingies and have millions of settler invaders in your country. Still think you actually won?
Could we seriously have had more imagination by now ??😁
They fought bc Churchill felt Germany was getting too strong ...now look at London.
@@m.hughmungus121 I'm with you on that one and I'm a German American.The World Wars killed the best of the best of Europe and America to the glee of the globalists.
@@m.hughmungus121 I think we know which side you’d be on. Enjoy the Gulags brother.
Fortunately, the Chain Home system was very difficult to knock out from the air. The Stukas gave their all, but they only knocked out a few stations, and they were back online in hours or days.
Adjacent stations could just temporarily increase and adjust their coverage to cover a gap in the chain.
@@PORRRIDGE_GUN - Yes, Chain Home and Chain Home Low were remarkable systems for their time. Although from what I've read, it looks like the operators needed a lot of skill to distinguish an incoming raid from the usual clutter and noise. Rather like an old-fashioned "fish-finder," where all you see is a little yellow band that might be a fish or not. I suspect that the secrets of RDF were so tightly protected, historians will never know all the details. Rather like how I was taught that the first digital computer was ENIAC in 1947, when now we know it was the Heath Robinson contraptions built at Bletchley Park.
CHH & CHL were clumsy, Heath Robinson-esque affairs, but when used correctly and data analysed in command centres they were vital. The Germans went down the road more of airborne detection and interception radar and blind flying landing and bombing aids, whilst the British thought about a warning system for the entire East and South Coasts. Technology vs employment. By war's end though, the breadth, sophistication and varied employment of allied radar systems meant many defied obsolescence for another 20 years or more
@@pacificostudios There were firing solution computers on battleships. I don't know where they sit in computational history but they were a happening thing even before Bletchley.
The Germans didn't fully realise the importance of the radar network otherwise they would have gone after them as a higher priority.
Also, the JU87s suffered high losses and were withdrawn on Goring's order, this contributed to fewer attacks on these instillations.
The Luftwaffe intelligence service was generally inept and played a significant part in the RAF success.
Always interesting, the "what ifs". Good video!
Great show. Thanks guys.
Brits would not flee to "America." Like many allied monarchs and citizens, they would have gone to Canada. Any historian worth their salt would say so. Pity.
Agreed....
In scenario two were they are still actively fighting absolutely. This was mentioned in scenario three though were they have reached a hypothetical peace with Germany. If that was the case and Churchill still opposed that peace I doubt it would have been safe to go to anywhere in the commonwealth. He would essentially be a political refugee at that point.
Very true my friend. There were 6 RAF aircraft on stand-by ready to take the Royal family to Canada. That would have been correct, so as to gurantee the continuation of State and Monarchy. The govt would have stayed. I couldn't see Churchill fleeing easily. Probably some parts of the govt would have willingly splitted and gone over to the Germans, ie, Lord Halifax, and others. Elements of the far right as Mosley would have switched sides. Churchill would have taken DRASTIC measures against anyone switching sides. He was capable of defending the country even if London had remained and the option of fleeing might have been used as a very, very last resort.
Well, Harry started out in Canada, but quickly made it down to warmer climes in California.
@@JRandallS Yes, but he's a socialist, and she plays the victim card like a real pro. How else could a real life princess with Fame and Fortune beyond imagination claim that she is oppressed, and treated like a second class citizen.
What a phony, what a fool... what a fraud
Thank you for an awesome video. I had honestly asked this question and I’m happy to see a professional assessment of it. I personally thought the same thing, it would have been impossible to invade England even with air superiority.
I proper enjoyed that. Luke brought the heatttt! Great talk to watch
Britain trying world domination for about half a millennium*
Germany try’s to dominate Europe*
Britain: this is unacceptable! 😢 👉👈
Still not sure Sea Lion would work. D-Day was a logistical nightmare that needed almost divine intervention to be pulled off and had more than 300,000 personal involved
People severely underestimate just how complex amphibious assaults (and the stages that come afterwards) actually are. Conquering Britain was almost impossible for Germany in 1940/41 and CERTAINLY impossible in the years that followed.
It was never going to happen. Germany did not have the resources. Bomber command and Coastal command and naval air assets were still available. They had no landing craft, they had barges . Good luck with that.
The RN would have had a field day .
@@Anna_Piwko Yeah I agree, i can't comprehend some people even entertaining the idea of occupying Britain. Sure, Germany dominated on land but it was a sudden strike with no preparation on the opposition and on LAND. Given the time needed to prepare an amphibious assault, ready the supply lines AND deploy countermeasures to the royal navy would have been catastrophic for holding territory already gained and would have required far too much of German intelligence and resources and hindered all other war fronts. Basically a suicide mission which war with the rest of Europe was anyway, but much faster.
@@NinjamonkeySam Also troops need training for amphibous landings even then it may not work. The US and UK were highly experience in naval warfare by 1944 and even they near lost it at anzio and D-Day.
Lucky Britannia was no longer connected to the mainland of Europe . It broke away in a sort of flooding after the last ice age when the ice sheets melted and what is now the English channel was 0nce land connected to mainland Europe . Saved by geography .
The Irish Sea, North Sea and the Channel were all dry land, albeit land slowly being submerged as sea levels rose. But it wasn't until 6.000 BC that Britain broke free of mainland Europe for good, during the Mesolithic period - the Middle Stone Age
Subsequent changes in sea level at the end of that ancient ice age further confirmed its insularity, and Britain's connection to mainland Europe was lost.
Can you imagine had the former ancient landscape not changed , the black shirts and union of fascists under Sir Oswald Mosley would have been made head of the Britische gov. Gin Gin All is well and fair in love and war eh
Ain’t nobody back then sniping out to a mile. Even a British one at 1700yards. The longest recording of a sniper kill up to the point of WW2 was Billy Dixon in 1864 at 1406m or 1538yds. Things definitely have come a long way since then with the use of modern arms, optics, ammo and ballistic devices. Current record is at 3540m or 3871 in May 2017 by a sniper with JTF-2 Canadian Armed Forces. Done with a 338 Lapua Magnum in Iraq. Interestingly it took around 10 seconds of bullet flight to hit his target. A immensive feat of the snipers skill and skills of his observation team.
10 am ones of bullet flight? You’ve been playing too much cod son
What…I only understand English…
@@GuinessOriginal damn autocorrect, fixed it to 10seconds of bullet flight. As far as COD, Naah I just spent 3 decades doing the real thing in the US Army.
@@redfernsoljah I always think someone is lying when they claim to be an ex servicemen. It's a real shame people pretend they served in the military. Not saying you're lying.
@@Joe-og6br ehh whatever. I’ve done my time. Don’t care what other believe. Airforce air cargo 91-2000 then Army till 2014 combat medic. Retired medical 2014 combat injuries from a deployment. My scars are enough for me. Don’t need a thank you for your service to bolster me. I know what I’ve done.
Excellent. Subscribed!
Excellent production and very informative 👍
That Phosphorous bomb brought back a great memory. My grandfather used to tell a story about a day where the home guard had been training with them in the sand pits and left one behind which the local children (incl him) got hold, anyway upon ignition they panicked and tried to put it out with their shoes first and then their jackets. He said his father was furious but when the local policeman came by he had brought with him a new pair of shoes for him. Different times then.
When you say 'the sand pits', do you mean Horsell, Woking, Surrey?
@@mikeycraig8970 No the local sand pits at the time, in bunham on crouch Essex.
I used to play with nukes and alligators when I was a kid. And that was only in the 80's. You'd never see a kid playing with nuclear device these days, not even a simple tactical one. I'm not sure about alligators... probably not. It's all health and safety gone mad.
It was mentioned that the British were "supposed to have had bombs which when dropped on water would spread fire". There were such bombs in World War II. They were called, "napalm". And, they are horrible. Signed, A Vietnam veteran.
WW2 napalm had to be ignited by explosive bombs & would be useless in water.
@@Russia-bullies Technicality that would have been mastered.
brilliant panel and host, they are all very engaging speakers.
It really hurts me to say, If we didn't lose the war, we certainly didn't win it,
This is wonderful. Nice to see younger historians discussing this "What If" scenario.
It might nave been. However, one was an actor, and a second has no qualifications in modern or military history at all.
There is too much British Navy fawning. The United States and Japan showed how deadly planes were in the seas of WW2. For these historians ( not military strategists) to just dismiss control over the channel skies complimented by the german u boat fleets seems a tad silly.
@@The_ConqueeftadorLJ Yes. I have a cousin on my dad's side of the family who not only was a fighter pilot in Vietnam, but went onto become an astronaut. Now retired he ownes his own consulting business.
It should be an if only!
@@The_Conqueeftadorgood point but Germany did not have that much in the way of maritime strike aircraft. But yes you are right to some degree in my humble opinion
I think even if the Nazi's landed across the channel, maintaining a supply line through would have been extremely difficult. The logistics alone would have been a gargantuan and impractical task.
L li oi oip
With what to bother their lines of supply? The Royal Navy would have been the next victim of the bombing attack to destroy their ports, fuel depots,repair yards, The Royal Navy would have had to fight with only the ammunition they had sailed with the U Boats and the German Air Forces would have forced them to sail to Canada and plan to defend from there .
That is so SO true, I recon........................
@@antoniolobo2514 ch
Wouldn't matter, they didn't have the supplies to send across the channel😉
Timeline,
Thanks for this very interesting discussion on the various permutations that would have ensued in the event of a British loss in the Battle of Britain. Interesting also to hear the views of contributors who were not even born during the period concerned!
Hitler’s early successes were basically because he analyzed the WW1 trenchwar stalemate and engineered around it using a combination of new tank & aircraft technologies. But he was a one-trick pony that didn’t listen to his generals. His poor decision to attack Russia killed him.
No, it was British strategists, Liddell-Hart came up with the idea of massed Tank formation in the early 20s. As H G Wells came up with the Ironclads, early tanks in his scientific romances. It could have all gone badly wrong with the traffic jam of the German army in the Ardennes in 1940, if the Allied air forces had not missed it.
Yep he started out great. But he should've annihilated the French/ British at Dunkirk. He should've fired Goering. He should have had nothing to do with Mussolini.....
The decision to attack Russia was the only rational decision at Germany's disposal
@@thedave8097
So you’re saying you sign a nonaggression pact with somebody, they don’t attack you and then you attack them because you have to… M’kay…fr
@Skyprince27 Yes, conflict between Russia and Germany was innevitable. But the main factor was that Germany would only realistically have fuel supplies for their tanks for only 1-2 years had they not invaded Russia. That wouldn't have been enough to win the war against the allies, let alone a prolonged war against a prepared Russia.
Submersible tanks? Oh, come ON! Crossing a river underwater maybe, but crossing the channel?
I don't know what colour mushrooms you've been eating, but I'd stop eating them if I were you.
Agreed. This guy is supposed to be an expert? 🙄
As a WW2 enthuisiast allow me to interject. Yes, they were deployed. But they were, to put it mildly, useless. See the tanks were designed to be used in calm or near-calm waters, the channel with those waves? It wrecked them, the waterproofing was not designed for it.
Not intended for crossing the entire channel, deployed closed to shore. Like the floating tanks used at dday, but snorkelers vs floaters.
The British had RADAR but home advantage meant they didn’t have to carry fuel to recross the channel like the Germans also they could easily rearm, the bullets lasted about 40 seconds. This is probably why in the fall of France the Germans had air superiority early on in the East whereas the British had superiority in the west.
Have. You watched the episode,? No radar left
According to historian James Holland, the ME109 had about 40 seconds of machine gun ammunition, Spitfires and Hurricanes had about 15 seconds each. At the time of the Battle of Britain, the 109 also had cannons, but there is some dispute as to how effective the latter were. To fit them into the 109, they had to make them smaller and reduce their power, thus making them less effective.
If we confronted Germany 1939 .invasion of Poland we had numerical advantage
@@Gwynbuck no endless bullets like movies lol
@@Gwynbuck the 15 seconds were 8 machine guns. The Grrman 40s were just two. The German Me109E's 20mm were plenty effective vs the RAFs aircraft of the time. The British would eventually up gun to 20mm cannons. The Germans would up gun to 30mm by wars end due to the allies usage of large 4 engine bombers.
Would’ve been a better place than now . My Nan and grandad was in the raf and was fuming on what this government has done to this country. Embarrassing
Thank God they didn't.... we Germans have a sad past😞... but I can't change this.... In this days I am deeply convinced that Britain and Germany are the most important partners in Europe despite Brexit... sorry the French seems to be very selfish..... and with english we are connected with our Anglo-Saxon bloodline... ❤️🌹🇩🇪🇬🇧🏴
Thank you, German friend. We voted for Brexit because we were concerned about bureaucrats in Brussels we know nothing about being able to make rules which affect us.
Personally, I hope your government goes nationalist again. As an Anglo-Saxon nationalist, it would make me happy to see my German motherland standing for her own wellbeing once again.
Americans save Brits
Brits go on to continue lecturing Americans how to live their lives.
Would have been exceptionally difficult because there would be no where to stage an invasion of Britain from.
The Nazis were never going to manage a landing on the British Isles. The Soviets won the war, not the USA.
Look at what London and other major British cities look like now...did you really save them?
@@patrickjohn33Does the surrender of Japan not count for anything?
@@robydurdstick3204 japan isnt real
Great video!! Very thought-provoking
Imagine if England had won the battle of Hastings. The English language would be much different today among many things.
English would likely sound more like Frisian or Dutch.
The key thing to a German invasion accross the channel was always the royal navy. 15" gun battleships could fire about 19 miles. Any preventetive mine field would have to be 20 miles+ either side of the invasion area that means if the Germans attacked from Calais towards the area between Dover and Hastings they would have to lay mines fron Ostend to Folkestone and from the Somme estuary to Brighton. While under attack.
Air superiority might have helped but that mine laying operation would have been very difficult to achieve.
Last time I checked, it's 20 miles from Pas de Calais, France to Dover, UK. So a 19 mile range means a lot!
Compare that to the island of Manhattan, New York, about 13 1/2 miles in length.
In June 1944, the Germans thought Ike would invade France along the SAME 20 mile route!
But Ike chose to invade across the 80 miles from southern England to Normandy, on the 6th of June, 1944!
Excellent piece. I am a big fan of the "what if" of history. For a future piece, What if Montgomery doesn't take command of 8th Army in time, El Alamein is a disaster, and Rommel, against his orders, takes Cairo and is sitting on the Suez Canal? Alexandria is denied as a base and the world experiences another of those "Yorktown Moments" when the world is turned upside down.
The crucial battle in North Africa was actually First Alamein in July, 1942, when Auchinleck took personal command of 8th Army and defeated Rommel.
Love it! Please do more what if scenarios!
Perhaps a more convincing panel would be desirable. A specialist in African history and an actor are hardly experts on the subject.
I read that Germany would have had a lot of problems in logistics supporting the invasion force, the Channel is Britain’s best asset.
They would have had much greater problems getting their towed barges into and across the Channel in the first place.
The impact of Germany gaining Britains industrial capacity would have been devastating for Germany’s other foes. The capacity aircraft, ship and arms manufacture would have enabled them to wipe the floor with the Russians…. They could have opened fronts from Norway to the Black Sea whilst having access to the Persian oil fields
"A top team of historians and experts" "Actor and history graduate" I think not.
Historians, maybe... experts, certainly not.
Kimberly, don't be so judgmental! Are you more historically advanced than the 'actor' here? Do you know more about the Battle of Britain than he does? Then, if so, YOU should have been chosen to voice your opinion of the 'fake news.'
@@brucemarsico6 'fake news'? What are you talking about?
I don't know what their level of 1940 history is. My point is that the description "A top team of historians and experts" is overblow. The "Actor and history graduate" by his own admission does research by "poking around on various message boards"
I have a degree in Physics, but I certainly would not consider myself for a top team of experts.
@@kimba381 Kimberly, let's put it this way....supposed you were introduced on a panel of experts, whatever 'expert' means, and your expertise is Physics. I'd still listen to your opinions. Isn't that what this is? A bunch of "experts" talking about alternative histories? It seems they may have more insight on the particular events of the Battle of Britain than the average man in the street. Of course, we're discussing an event of eighty years ago. Perhaps they've done some deep investigative studies of the events leading up to the Blitz.......but, it's only opinions......
@@gobshite5150 I lasted 13 minutes ... unfortunely ...
'When Napoleon lay at Boulogne for a year, with his flat bottom boats and his Grande Armée; he was told by someone - there are bitter weeds, in England'
Yes the British !
@@dsmith4658 q1qq
Thats when Napoleon was introduced to Earl Grey... :)
This was terrific !
Good stuff👍
9 words come to mind when i think of the spirit of England, and Churchill said it best.
"Do your worst, for we will do our best". That to me, is England in all her glory 🇺🇲🏴
Well said
Yes, because the English have always been the best. At stopping Imperialism. At cooking. At...you know honestly I'm just going to stop there.
@@jaiclary8423 imperialism yeah for sure (British empire with 18% of the entire world)
@@Chosen_Ash more like 25%
Helping Carly with her revision has done Simon some good I see
The biggest error Goering made and perhaps imo the chief reason the RAF made it through was: The Luft would launch its fighters up and protect the bombers as they took off and gathered into their fleets... thus using up a huge amount of fuel.
What they should have done is had a much smaller force of fighters designated as cover for this build up... the bombers are escorted part way by this smaller force, then the main real fighters that are to provide cover and go after the RAF fighters take off well after the bombing fleet and they catch up and have instead of 5-10 minutes of fuel over England, they have 30-50 minutes of fuel and that makes a huge difference when in battle.
So many German fighters had to stop fighting and leave when perhaps they might have made real impact... and the RAF could stay up so much longer and chase those fleeing fighters leaving based solely on fuel concern.
HG didn't understand escorting, he made the 109's fly with the bombers instead of placed high above them, ideally in the sun. The bombers could see the fighters now but the fighters couldn't do anything
Also something I never understood is why not bait the RAF out with a staffel of 12 bombers escorted by 50-100 fighters, they could bomb airfields then.
@@macoooos9204 The UK had radar and the ability to discern feints.
I think they did a TV series about alternative WW2 history, called The Man in the High Castle.
Good video buddy. Your channel is creative, informative, entertaining, and a good example of the positive aspects of the internet. Cheers from Canada.
Then the British would be encouraged to inform on their neighbours.
Oh...wait....
Exactly 🙃
Bull. The citizens of the channel isles lived better than citizens of the Reich
🤣😂🤣😂🙈
Great video ❤
This is one of the best alternate history documentaries I've seen.
I'm certainly a bit biased because the subject is one I've thought about a good deal.
What if Harold had won the battle of Hastings?
We wouldn't be using the word 'battle' for a start.
Quite an interesting discussion, My Father(a Dunkirk survivor) always believed that had The Germans Landed they would have had an easy time of it, Morale was low and the so called "Free" forces were in the same boat as the British army with all the heavy equipment left behind in Europe.
The Royal Navy while very large was spread around the globe and protecting possessions in other parts of the world. Following the proviso of this talk, with a severely weakened Army, a destroyed RAF, would the British be happy to suffer severe damage to its last functioning service or do what Vichy France did and relocate to say Canada, with the Royal Family/Cabinet and the Gold reserves that had already left the country? that seems more than likely.
There was a mention of 3 Thousand Fallschirmjager and no doubt more would be available in training, if they had landed and managed to occupy a smallish port, a invasion of some kind may have been possible, and as for the Home Guard not even a consideration.
I suspect there may have been a resistance by a few blowhards but the British are a practical and well disciplined people (Just like the Germans) and when they saw that resistance was futile it would of ceased. (It Never happened in the Channel Islands}
The most likely scenario would of been a realisation by the British that "Terms" of some sort where needed as the hope of "Empire Troops" rescuing Britain was more a pipe dream then a reality, and unlikely to happen.
The other alternative is a face off as in the time of the Napoleonic wars and the hope of Russia may have become involved (and did) and fought back and won the war.
Would America and its isolationist policy have entered the war,maybe but how would it have hit back at Germany and its Allies,would be the main problem.with the UK occupied, there is no jumping of point to fight from.
Had Britain been occupied unless there was a resistance it would have been a benign occupation, and a puppet government soon established ( and it would have had a lot of support from the Elites, more so I think then many would believe.)
Speech by SS-Obergruppenfuhrer Richard Darre - 1940
Richard Darre’s infamous speech made in 1940, detailed the fate of the British people, and makes chilling reading.
“As soon as we beat England we shall make an end of you Englishmen once and for all. Able- bodied men and women between the ages of 16 and 45 will be exported as slaves to the Continent. The old and weak will be exterminated.
All men remaining in Britain as slaves will be sterilised; a million or two of the young women of the Nordic type will be segregated in a number of stud farms where, with the assistance of picked German sires, during a period of 10 or 12 years, they will produce annually a series of Nordic infants to be brought up in every way as Germans.
These infants will form the future population of Britain. They will be partially educated in Germany and only those who fully satisfy the Nazi’s requirements will be allowed to return to Britain and take up permanent residence. The rest will be sterilised and sent to join slave gangs in Germany.
Thus, in a generation or two, the British will disappear.”
If the Germans had landed every man woman and child available would have fought them, with sticks and stones if necessary.
@@mogznwaz Congratulations you have just won that prize that no one really wants to win but is handed out by CZcams which is "The most silliest and stupidest comment that has no real relevance or meaning".
Well done.
Atlantic convoys were short of escorts initially, because those ships were held back to counter any invasion [allegedly].
The Germans may well have had an easy time of it because of the lack of weaponry the British had to fight back with. My father's large group of Local Defence Volunteers (later renamed Home Guard) had one rifle and no bullets between all of them. After Dunkirk the rifle was requisitioned by the Army.
Among the elites, it was generally assumed that a German occupation was likely because there was a strong demand from well-to-do young ladies for German language tutors so they could improve their future marriage prospects.
Some residents of Southampton moved away from the city because 'those in the know' considered the immediate area one of the more likely invasion points for the Germans. The Isle of Wight and New Forest were poorly defended, with only small pockets of population, plenty of relatively easy access points and more favourable topography for moving rapidly inland than the Channel Ports. The most significant military asset in the area, Portsmouth, could be neutralised simply by sinking a ship in the narrow entrance channel.
I like how he just casually pulls out a home-made phosphorus grenade 😂😂 *😳* 😂😂
Actually people misremembering things is nothing odd. My mother and I am sure others, was sure they used to sing the theme tune to Dad's Army during the War However I can't remember which one of the creators it was but one of them said it was him who created it. Having a famous WW2 singer singing it just cemented it as a War Song in people's minds
My war age relatives remember no such thing. I guess some people are more susceptible to poor memories and making stuff up.
Excellent scenario, but it would be interesting to see your 'take' on what would have happened if Harold had won the Battle of Hastings in IO66?
Do you know of any other historians who have taken on this question? I think it's in the top 10 "what if" questions.
As a Godwin, I'd defo watch it.
One thing is certain; Harold would have two eyes if he lived to win the battle!
I'd be interested to know what would have happened if England had never subjugated the Welsh, and never stole all of their mineral wealth, and siphoned all of the profits out of the country.
"It's part of British national mythology".
As an American I want you to know that you won that battle and the western world thanks you! We are proud to be your friends. Also, I'm pretty sure mythology doesn't mean what these guys think it means. LOL.
Mythology (from the Greek mythos for story-of-the-people, and logos for word or speech, so the spoken story of a people) is the study and interpretation of often sacred tales or fables of a culture known as myths or the collection of such stories which deal with various aspects of the human condition: good and evil; the meaning of suffering; human origins; the origin of place-names, animals, cultural values, and traditions; the meaning of life and death; the afterlife; and the gods or a god. Myths express the beliefs and values about these subjects held by a certain culture.
norse sagas isnt that lore the valkurie ,nieberlungen etc sort crosses into germanic from norse at least according to wagner ..hahaha all good homocidal fun,what!
Mythology is you are probably imagining a group of White English chaps standing up to the horrid Huns. Well there were not only aviators from Poland & Czechoslovakia & Dominions but also Commonwealth. UK wasn't alone. It has an Empire. And that empire paid a heavy price. National myths is not history. And history is what matters, And by the way, Western world wouldn't have beaten the Germans without The USSR and her civilian population.
@si james not yetbut gimme time .
Cheers, mate! 🍻
Seeing how the UK is today, it probably would have been in a better condition...
I recommend interviewing David Irving about this topic and reading his books as well.
Do you? I would recommend reading books by credible historians instead. Irvine seems to get most of his ideas from Volkischer Beobachter.
Yest, I have read some of his 'works', by the way. Especially his nonsense about Dresden, where his statistics were repeated almost word for word from Goebbels' propaganda claims.
At the time, it seemed that Britain could lose that battle.
Now, looking back, we know that it was impossible for Britain to lose that battle.
1. The battle took place over Britain -- which means that every downed British pilot was able to get a new plane, and get back in the fight. Every downed German pilot became a POW, and out of the war.
2. Britain was able to produce as many planes as they lost each day, at least. So, the British Air Force got stronger each month. Meanwhile, Germany was not able to produce as much as they lost, so got weaker over time.
It was the factory workers that made the Spitfires and Hurricanes that were the true backbone of Victory.
Er. The Royal Navy, with absolute naval supremacy, was the true reason Sealion was never attempted.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 True. But it never got that far, since air superiority was never established. Even if it had been established, the naval dominance of Great Britain would have defeated it, too.
Don’t forget the British had more pilots in total than Germany. From Poland as an example. Germany only had more in the beginning. Also the luftwaffe did well at first but then they bombed cities instead of strategic targets
I'd like to see a discussion of what would have happened if the Germans had won the First Battle of the Marne in WWI and occupied Paris. Would the allies have sued for peace? Would the Russian Revolution never have happened? Would the Edwardian Era continued?
i guess had that happened, Britain and Germany would have reconciled at some point
We'd probably see the EU formed in 1930 instead of 1950 if Germany won ww1
Lol
Idiots
Great piece
For one thing, the streets would be safer for children
That rather assumes that the master race would allow their inferiors to breed?
Honoring you for all you do. Susie from Bluegrass Land. I have never seen this many thumbs down. Too bad folks dont know it still raises the points for the channel.
8 wss
Wolfenstein made an entire video game franchise based of ideas like this.
Not fully in the UK it didn't which I would love to see but we did get somewhat of an idea.
furtherland was a movie based on the same notion
Wolfenstein is great but it's more sci-fi than accurate alt history.
Al T I watched furtherland
Yeah Nazis take over the world because nobody could beat them and at the end of the game Nazis couldn't beat Blazkowicz. Logic level infinity.
One thing not taken into account right at the beginning. Fighter Command wasn't solely reliant on radar for spotting incoming attacks. There was also the Observer Corps dotted around the country also relaying information to FC HQ. Yes, they wouldn't have got the info as quickly and some of the airfields closer to the channel may well have been destroyed, but it wouldn't have meant the total lose of the RAF and we could still have put up enough resistance to still delay/postpone Operation Sealion.
RADAR also only looked out to sea, so once over land, FC were reliant on the Observer Corps to keep them informed of the bombers movements and changes in course.
ROC's contribution is very under-appreciated. They worked in 1940 and in 1944 (against the V1s).
Weird how much I hated history in school but now I find myself going to bed watching history videos of the war 😅
Off topic but when Victoria said "Victorys are made up of thaosands of failiures" that hit me in the chest
Because of what a preposterous notion it is? Or for some other reason? It's like of like Trudeau's "if you kill your enemies, they win"
@@wlm7434. Agreed, totally left wide open to suggestions and here say. It’s a very loose term and victory is only won by being victorious in the operations in the theatre of war. You can’t have failure we’re victory is won, other wise the objectives would not be met and failure of victory would happen, so she is wrong as she used a loose vague term that clearly is self defeating !!!
True u can't learn it all the first time out...trial error is process of learning
Germany didn't have the resources to take and *hold* Britain. Getting troops and supplies across the channel would have been tremendously difficult. Not to mention the Germans dragged multiple countries into the war. Not enough resource to fight so many fronts.
They could have if they didn't go into russia
@@judyparsons1333 not necessarily. Germany had no dedicated landing craft. Whoever didn't drown in the channel would be landing on barges already making things much more difficult to secure a beachhead which they would then have to hold. Not to mention the kriegsmarine would face the near impossible task of defending them from the Royal Navy. War games after the war estimated Germany would lose 60,000 men captured or killed after being encircled by the navy
@@cyanoticspore6785 Not only that they did not have the ships to protect the barges, also the would have to do deal with subs.
Your all missing the Royal Navy that would have blown them out of the water
One thing they didn't mention is the fact that the germans could've gotten a peace deal out of britian if they had crushed the British and french at dunkirk this would've forced britain to peace or even surrender... another way was Mosley if the Germans had waited a little longer with war then he could've gotten in power or committed a coup... and there's was also operation Green woch was invading Ireland or having them declare war on britain while the germans would've helped them defeat britain... or Germany could've focused on africa and the middle east then invade the soviets at right time with a lot of resources, and the most important thing the germans could've invaded the soviet also through the middle east into the oilfields of the soviets while also invading from europe, this way the soviets would've fallen bc they wouldn't have had oil their warmachine and logistics would've just collapsed without oil. And when the soviets had fallen in that point the germans would've become unstoppable bc they would've had almost all of the worlds resources and industry and they could've outproduced britain on every front within a year or 2 and in this scenario the battle of the rest of the world would've begun possible or the germans would've be happy with defeating britain or having peace with britain bc they would've been so big in power that they would've been an litteral world order without invading the rest of the world...
The Battle of Britain was as large as the battle of Hastings. The Nazis would have had the same influence as the Normans if that happened.
Is that the guy off inbetweeners lol
So, the Luftwaffe gains temporary air superiority. All the Germans then need to do is get the nine divisions of their first wave to their landing beaches in modified Rhine barges towed, in cumbersome box formations, at little more than walking pace, in pairs, by tugs, trawlers, and small coasters. The Kriegsmarine estimated that this would require eleven days.
All the time this is going on, they are relying on the same Luftwaffe which had failed abysmally at Dunkirk to protect the barges from the seventy or so Royal Navy light cruisers and destroyers assembled as the RN's main anti-invasion force, backed up by around five hundred smaller warships.
Good luck!
I think you folks are a bit under the delusion as if Germany had failed in Dunkirk. That there had been plenty of other moments in which Germany had pinched off forces from their logistical supplies without issues in taking POW's. Fundamentally the Brits then had by and large been spared than defined that outcome purely on their own terms.
It wouldn't have been the Luftwaffe that would have been the RN's worry, more of a threat would have been a U-boat screen, and even then the U-boats wouldn't have it their own way.
@@travellingtim1 Not really. The Kriegsmarine hadn't the ability to put out any sort of U-Boat screen. In September 1940 they had an average of 13 boats only at sea on any one day.
Furthermore, the three boats which they sent into the Channel in October 1939 were all sunk at once without achieving anything.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 the perceived threat from U-boats would have been real though with the Royal oak being fresh in the memory....the reality though I guess would have been any U-boat screen being hunted to destruction within a couple of days. It's interesting to wonder though what an unopposed force of 200+ bombers could have done to the home fleet.
@@travellingtim1 The Home Fleet was at Rosyth, well out of range of anything other than unescorted bombers. Moreover, at the time, the Luftwaffe had not been trained in anti-shipping operations, resulting in their failure at Dunkirk. Furthermore, in the whole of the war, the Luftwaffe sank 31 RN destroyers, and no RN ship larger than a light cruiser. The Luftwaffe didn't even have a torpedo bomber until mid 1942.
In his memoirs, Churchill talked about the possibility of England's fall to the Germans. He had plans to extract the government of England to, I believe, Canada, and continue the struggle from there. He would not have been captured, and he would not have given up the fight. England still had her empire, and while he acknowledged that re-entering Europe from Canada would have been far more difficult, he was never going to give up. I would also like to point out that this was one of the brilliant points of the lend-lease program with America. Many critical islands and territories were "lent" to America in return for the war aid, most notably the badly-need destroyers. The idea was that even in England fell, those islands would be safely in American hands and could be used as forward bases by America against Germany. They would have been crucial to returning to Europe.
Yeah well ssid in the novel Fartherlsnd the a royals relocate to Canada for wot it’s worth
Decades of being in the EU and mass immigration has finished off the Britain we once had.
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Marcus Tullius Cicero
I didnt know Donegal was part of the UK!
The phosphorus milk bottle bombs? The Finns did it first in the Winter War, 1938.
Molotov Cocktail anyone?
The panel is correct The Luftwaffe should have continued attacks on the military targets.
Also the the 3 Luftwaffe command areas facing great Briton did Not coordinate air strikes. This enabled the RAF to move around assets as needed to blunt each attack individually.
And yes, DROP TANKS FOR EVERYBODY, in the Luftwaffe. In-flight refueling would have been a plus, if available.
Why is the Republic of Ireland highlighted in the picture? Weren’t part of Britain during WW2?
Nothing much would have changed. The RAF would pull back behind the line of the Thames and Severn, and, when the invasion was imminent, the Home Fleet would sail down from Scapa Flow under cover of darkness and wreak havoc on the makeshift collection of barges and ferries the Germans would have used to transport their invasion force.
When you consider the technical and logistic problems that had to overcome to make Operation Neptune a success, the odds of Seelowe actually succeeding were marginal at best. After its losses in the Norway campaign, the Kriegsmarine was in no position to protect the invasion fleet, and while the Luftwaffe might succeed in imposing heavy losses on the Royal Navy, at the end of the day, the German invasion force would mostly be on the bottom of the English Channel, while those who managed to get ashore (including Fallschirmjager) would be cut off and soon starved into submission.
What happened after that depends on a lot of variables.
This channel is amazing,!!
Have you thought about adding subs in other languages? My dad is a big fan of IIWW history and he would love all your content, unfortunately, he just speaks Catalan and Spanish
czcams.com/video/YtOBtwSwzgk/video.html按住！！ 剪輯內容即可固定該4ㄓ。系統會在 1 小時後執政者U未固定的項目。。
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耳
My dad loves history too thats how i got into it when i was a kid.I hope they add subtitles so your dad can enjoy it too.Thats really awesome u get to watch it with him.I miss doing that with my dad.
@@ghostman3398 one thing missing, the battle of Narvik, the German lost so many ships, crossing the Channel they had no chance, Also the topography of the UK.
Make subtitles for him😊
We wouldn't have to worry about "migrants" coming across the English Channel anymore, that's for sure.
You get my comment of the day I thought someone was going to say it but in my brain I just did not expect it and when I read you do that you know I'm waiting for a bus right now I just laughed out loud and had to walk away because people are looking at me like what the heck is this guy on
I doubt our children would be being taught transgender ideology in schools either
@@boblargecock7724 no trans ideology no homosexuality no sexual promiscuity for children especially young girls promotion of women being women and mothers to be as the greatest honor the Banning of multiculturalism in schools they would have been no Black History Month there would have been no let's take some time off for Hindu festivals or Ramadan there would have been no muslim problem in Britain there would have been no one million White young girls raped by these Pakistani Savages there would be absolutely no cases ever hope he is ready Embassy trying to overflow our government members and governments like it did with its political officer just a few years ago by trying to lie that one conservative Minister was a homosexual pervert all because we are rightly opposed the settlements in the Palestinian West Bank
Umhhhhh. Not once the German migrants had eradicated the English people.
No chance of Brexit either which would have been a mercy. The proto-Brexidiots would have been killed-off on the eastern front, too.
I would very much like to see the names on that 'list'. I think it would be most revealing. This list would be a real eye opener for a lot of ordinary citizens. People would start to realise that this country is not ruled by who and what they assume it to be!! Of course the list is long out of date now, but it would be revealing as to what 'qualified' as an entry on to the list. When can we expect a documentary on that subject??
Some of the names:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_(list)#:~:text=The%20Sonderfahndungsliste%20G.B.%20(%22Special%20Search,known%20as%20The%20Black%20Book.
@@euanmackenzie5656
Thanks for that. Most interesting. I've started to realise that we have been taught distortion and lies by the academics and institutions that we trust. This insidious propaganda dates back to the war itself!! The lies have lived on for countless decades.
😕
In addition to Lord Baden Powell with his Boy Scouts,apparently the SS wanted to pick up Sigmund Freud,who had fled to England from Vienna. The Germans did not know that Freud was already dead.
Think twas published in Sunday Times/Mag maybe, back the 70's
Imagine the quality of comedy series it would make, putting Churchill as Hitlers Butler. Comedy gold.
I imagine the plot more as "The Admirable Crichton".
Most successful squadron (kills for losses) = a polish one.
"The No. 303 Polish Fighter Squadron for example was not just the highest scoring of Hurricane squadron, but also had the highest ratio of enemy aircraft destroyed relative to their own losses"
"Had it not been for the magnificent material contributed by the Polish squadrons and their unsurpassed gallantry," wrote Air Chief Marshal Hugh Dowding, head of RAF Fighter Command, "I hesitate to say that the outcome of the Battle would have been the same."
00Billy : The Polish and Czech pilots all had far, far more flying experience than the average British pilot in 1940. Most of them had been flying since the mid 1930’s. All they lacked was good English language skills, and good radio discipline (neither essential once they actually got into a fight).
@@timonsolus no the only flying going on was in the Spanish civil war. Lots of pilots went..hoping to get some time/exp. Polish were orphaned eventually... which explains it
"Research conducted by Gerald Howson after the collapse of the Iron Curtain showed that Poland was second, after the Soviet Union, in selling arms to the Republic. In the autumn of 1936, Poland was the only nation to offer arms to the Republic in any quantity, according to Howson. At the time, the Republic was in great need since the Nationalists were threatening Madrid"
00Billy : I meant all flying, not just flying in combat. Training flights are important too.
There's a couple of things about this.
Firstly, although the Royal Navy would not necessarily have stopped an invasion... they only needed to clobber German logistics for a couple of days. The RN was vast. The Z-plan did not account for the RN building more ships to stay ahead of the Germans.
Also, the Luftwaffe did not have the experience or training to destroy a warship underway at sea whilst it is firing back.
The RAF never needed air superiority. They only needed to deny the same to the Luftwaffe.
Well said. I've long been an amateur student of alternative history. I dont think a German victory of BoB would change much, unless they did actually go ahead with sea lion (and a BoB victory doesn't mean Germany would have went through with it).
If they won BoB, I'd rate the odds of sea lion happening at maybe 15%
I'd rate the odds of s successful landing at less than 5 or 10%.
And the odds of a victory (or even hanging on) after 5 days at less than 1%. The morale of the troops after the defeat on the continent couldn't have been good (but you can't underestimate the Brits in that regard).
But, what I think is interesting is if a German BoB victory lead to Sea Lion and then the extreme likelihood of crushing defeat of the Germans--how would that impact Barbarossa? Would Hiltler have paused? How long. And would he rethought the ill advised declaration on the US? Or would he have taken the victory of BoB to ramp up the blitz and brought a strategic bombing campaign against Britain to make them pursue peace? Or would it have played out pretty much the same? Fun to think about with the distance of time.
Amazing doc
Wow so interesting and so very scary fantastic show these scenarios are so great 2 watch, but like I said so bloody scary thanks guys
Fabulous stuff !
I love whatiffery !
More please !
Just found the station, and impressed!
Great Britain saved the world, people need to know this.
Who knew Michael Bolton was so well versed in historical facts?! Such great content!!!
It takes great skill to read a script.
If the kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe played nice together, that would have been disastrous for the allies.
Britain will never surrounded to anyone ever. We even ended the viking age and stopped the roman empire in its tracks
They wouldnt have invaded britain either away because of the royal navy
It's, "...If Britain HAD Lost...", assuming we are working with the third conditional.
the germans simply didnt have the boats /ships to invade and the uk had the royal navy.