Heartstopper Season 2 Reaction | Episode 7 - Ben finally gets what's coming to him!!!
Vložit
- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- Edited by Matthew Cantell.
Support us on Patreon: / astoryworthtelling
Follow us on Instagram: / aswtofficial
____________________________________________________________________
THE SCENES. Wow, this episode had us gagging. Key highlights: Ben getting eviscerated, & the dinner table DRAMA. Enjoy!
Subscribe for more reviews, and please comment if you have any recommendations or experiences you'd like to share.
LGBTQ+ resources: www.mind.org.u...
❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Check out some of our previous videos and playlists:
• Red White and Royal Bl...
• Bros | Gay Film Reacti...
• Heartstopper Season 1
• Young Royals Season 1
• Young Royals Season 2
____________________________________________________________________
Equipment used by ASWT and LGBTQ+ Merch we love:
- Mic: amzn.to/3p4wj2Q
- Lighting: amzn.to/3QwOLh8
- Camera Tripod: amzn.to/3QlouCg
- Pride Flag: amzn.to/39R3rHp
- Pride Bandana: amzn.to/3nzYiH3
____________________________________________________________________
©️ Copyright Disclaimer
Allowances under the 'Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988' are made for 'Fair Dealing' for the purposes of criticism, review, and teaching.
All rights belong to their respective owners.
____________________________________________________________________
#LGBTRepresentation #Reaction #heartstopper
Tori Spring is absolutely the MVP of this episode. Tori - 2; David - 0.
I think its great to have different stories in this. Charlie who's been forced out, Nick who choose to, Ben who's afraid of it and Darcy, who's going the opposite route compared to Ben. She's not having an understanding or supportive home either but still acts nice to others and lives her truth the best she can. There's always a choice in your way.
Isaac's scene lasts a few minutes but it made me cry a lot. Asexuality is still "rare" in this world but being able to see it in this show is beautiful for me.
I came to know and accept my asexuality very recently and it was really liberating to be able to put a name to it.
I can breath now and be very proud of who I am. The phrase "but then... freedom" is just wonderful and true.
❤
Preach ❤
I'm personally glad that Charlie didn't feel obligated to forgive Ben. I think he handled it perfectly. It's not the responsibility of the victim to forgive the bully and let them off the hook. Ben needs to suffer the consequences of his actions. Maybe he can learn and grow, but it's not on Charlie to help make that happen. Also- Team Tori!!!
In that short scene with James and Isaac, you just saw how kind and understanding James was with Isaac. Some guys would've reacted a lot worse, but James being the kind soul he is, accepted it, even to the point of reassuring Isaac that there is nothing wrong with him. Lovely scene.
I agree! James is the sweetest!
I feel so much for Isaac in that moment. Like, here he is with this boy who hangs out in a library and works in a bookshop and shares Isaac's love of books, plus he's super cute and incredibly sweet and a really good and kind person, and he likes Isaac? In every book Isaac's ever read, this should be his dream guy. And yet he's able to recognise that he just doesn't feel that way, and talk about it with maturity, despite it making no sense to him in that moment. He must be feeling so confused, no wonder he feels like something is wrong with him! I'm glad he doesn't have to wait long to learn about asexuality and aromanticism so he doesn't have to go on feeling that way. It took me a lot longer to realise my own asexuality and it's really hard going through that journey of feeling like there's something wrong with you, I don't want to see our dear Isaac having to suffer like that.
@@EmonEconomist Well said - just as I was thinking about James. He seems to be the perfect boyfriend, but Isaac is not built for that type of love. I hope James appears in season three, and we see him settle down with someone.
Growing up, I watched a lot of TV shows where queer teenagers (and teenagers in general) were expected to "take the high road," forgive, and make nice with people who abused or bullied them. I was really pleased to see Heartstopper subvert this trope with Harry and especially Ben. I've seen some viewers criticize Charlie or suggest he should have been gentler with them. I really take issue with that. I think it's important to show teenagers that if someone has deeply harmed you, you are under no obligation to let them have a place in your life, to offer comfort to someone who has traumatized you… or to invite them to your friends’ birthday parties lol. I also think it's quite unfair to put the onus on Charlie to handle Ben or Harry with kid gloves. Especially Ben, when Charlie has appeared pretty visibly (and understandably) anxious around him all season, while Ben has continually disregarded Charlie's feelings and trampled on his boundaries, including in this scene.
The creator of Heartstopper has said they like to imagine that Ben could eventually accept himself and stop harming people around him, but Charlie shouldn't have to be a part of that journey, which is why the character won't be in the show going forward. That's basically the message we get in this episode, and I think it's a good one for young people (and people who have experienced abuse) to receive.
I also think Ben's "apology" reinforced that he still does not recognize what he did wrong with Charlie or how badly he harmed him. Ben showed no regard for what Charlie wanted or needed, pestering Charlie over DMs, then tracking him down and cornering him at Elle's art show when it was clear he didn't want to talk. The apology itself did not acknowledge anything Ben actually did, or the pain he caused Charlie - just vague statements about being a "messed up person" who needed "more time” to figure himself out… the very same justification he gave Charlie when he assaulted him in season 1, and when he put the blame back on Charlie again in his conversations with Nick in this season.
Throughout both season 1 and 2, my impression has been that Ben does not see Charlie as a full person with agency, but as “something good” to serve Ben’s needs (or Nick’s - the moment where he accused Nick of “stealing” Charlie from him felt telling). We saw Ben repeat some of the same toxic patterns (to a less severe degree) in his brief, ill-fated relationship with Imogen. I think Ben probably feels some sincere regret for the way things went down, but whether that’s more about the trauma Charlie suffered, or what Ben feels *he* suffered when Charlie left him… it feels like the latter. With the added context of Ben's (quite manipulative and nasty) convos with Nick throughout this season, I lean towards interpreting his ambush/“apology” as another attempt to win Charlie over again.
So I think Ben really needed to hear from Charlie just how much damage he did. Best case scenario, it's a wake-up call that helps Ben eventually get to a place where he accepts himself, finds community, and does not harm future partners. But I think it's also important to recognize that while Ben's internalized homophobia plays a role in the way he behaves (and is of course very sad), it does not fully explain it, and it will likely take a lot more than self-acceptance for Ben to abandon the abusive tendencies we've seen him exhibit.
Beautifully said!
I like how Alice writes these characters. Yes, she’s showing us how it can be while slowly contrasting that with reality, easing us into, but not overwhelming us. We see more depictions of tragedy and the uglier aspects of being LGBTQIA+ in media that makes it seem that it’s more hopeless than hopeful. I feel it’s beneficial to give us something uplifting or positive in a media landscape that thrives on the darker realities.
wasn’t expecting darcy’s suit to prom storyline to match up so closely to mine lmao. my mom didn’t want me to do it at first, but her worry was genuine and based in past trauma where a girl went to her prom in a pantsuit and got bullied, whereas darcy’s mom is just hateful. i ended up wearing the pantsuit and had a fucking great time :)
Good for you!!
The "but then.... freedom" bit with Isaac and the artist made me cry so much. Finding out about asexuality (and aromanticism) lifted such a HUGE burden off my shoulders. Realising you're not broken and a freak is so liberating. And I'm so happy we get some representation in Heartstopper so young queer kids learn about these labels in time to hopefully avoid all the heartache I caused myself by forcing myself to be "normal". Really can't wait to see more of Isaac's storyline in the next season.
I felt bad for James though for being rejected but he reacted pretty sweet. And who knows, maybe he'll end up with Isaac anyway and they have their own version of a queer partnership.
Thank you for sharing your experience! I hope there are good things in store for James, and I really hope they model the crush-to-friendship pathway for Isaac and James like they did with Nick and Imogen
Ben is terrified by his queer orientation. At the end of his confrontation with Charlie he walks away from the LGBTQ wave! So now we understand that part of his personality has curdled inside him, so he is a dick to men AND women. Sad. But a portrayal of what can happen when people reject who they are. A needed perspective in a show where people are coming to terms with who they are. Imagine what could have happened to Nick if he refused this insight.
Personally, I almost read that moment as Ben finally being pushed away from his queer identity after he was rejected by the queer people that he hurt around him. He was trying to integrate himself with them most of the season, trying to get back in contact with Charlie, coming to Tara’s birthday party, and finally going to the “Here and Queer” exhibit to apologize to Charlie. Every attempt went south, so he’s turning his back on being queer which is really tragic actually.
@@Liam-mv9zi liam, that is certainly another level of interpretation . Can we agree that perhaps these two perspectives can be complementary? There is much of value to your POV. I think we are both searching for a way to humanize (vs demonize) Ben.
I took that moment to mean that he's still not ready to accept that part of himself (and maybe he never will be) but he *wants* to. perhaps it's the optimist in me but I still hold out hope for him and all the Ben Hopes of this world. 💓💜💙
@@Liam-mv9zi He definitely isn't trying to "integrate himself with them", he is trying to get back on Charlie's good side cause he wants him back. He literally says that to Nick. If he wanted friends, or a sense of community, he would have been nice to Nick, not a jerk to him all season. He also would have tried being nice to Tara, Darcy, Elle, James, literally anyone. But all he does is insult Nick and talk about Charlie like he is a toy he can win back.
Strongly disagree with this interpretation. Ben has not shown any desire to "integrate" himself with other queer people. He spent the entire season with his usual friend group with Harry, until he seemed to alienate himself with his poor treatment of Imogen. What we HAVE seen is Ben repeatedly harass and attempt to manipulate Nick and Charlie, because he is angry that Charlie moved on and sees him as a possession he can win back from Nick (who "stole" him). The last thing we heard from Ben before this scene was him telling Nick he wanted Charlie back, then denying he knew Charlie at Tara's party. Then Ben started harassing Charlie over DMs, and when it became clear Charlie did not want to talk, he literally stalked him to another town to ambush him (not to check out the exhibition).
It is very tragic that Ben is clearly grappling with a lot of internalized homophobia, but it does not feel right to put that on other queer people "rejecting" him, especially not the person he abused. I think it is possible Ben feels some level of genuine regret (and *definitely* jealousy), but his "apology" happened against Charlie's will, did not actually acknowledge any of the harm he caused Charlie ("I'm a messed up person" does not count), and was mostly Ben offering justifications for himself. I think the most generous interpretation would be that Ben just doesn't understand how badly he hurt Charlie, but it could also be read as textbook manipulation from someone who has manipulated and gaslit Charlie in the past. Trying to make Charlie feel sympathy for him, yet again using the "I just need more time" line, which he also used on Charlie literally mid-assault, and on Nick when he was blaming Charlie for not giving him a chance...@@Liam-mv9zi
I’m so glad that Charlie said what he said to Ben! Ben isn’t sorry he abused Charlie, he just want Charlie to dump Nick and get back with him.
Absolutely!
Ben needs help and guidance. I agree with them, Ben deserves to be happy and accept himself but he doesn't deserve Charlie to accept his apology.
Doubt that’s why he apologized, he finally realized he was being a massive douche and needed to work in himself.
I disagree I actually do think Ben liked Charlie and was sorry the problem is he doesn’t like himself and because his parents wouldn’t accept him being bi I’m glad he apologized and I’m glad Charlie got to say what he wanted to say and they went their separate ways
@@marcusmelancon3426 No, I don't think Ben's apology was because he genuinely understood that how he treated Charlie was wrong. I think his apology was entirely selfish because he wants Charlie back. Until he actually understands what he did wrong and accepts that it was, indeed, wrong, he isn't going to change. Maybe now that Charlie has explicitly told Ben how he hurt him and why it was wrong, Ben might make those connections and change, but I doubt it. And not just because of his reluctance to accept his queerness. It's about respect and consent and care and consideration, and nothing Ben ever did showed Charlie (or Imogen either for that matter) that he actually cared about them as people.
A huge thing I took away from the conversation with Ben was when Charlie actually called him out for not asking. Charlie asked Nick and made sure every step of the way to have consent during the first season, and it was all because of what Ben did to him and he didn't want Nick to ever feel the same way. Charlie is amazing!
The most frustrating thing I find about Ben is the fact that even if he was going through a tough time, there were still loads of opportunities for him to step into the light and be a better person. Even if he wanted to keep his relationship with Charlie a secret, the least he could have done was treat Charlie like an actual person with agency. He could have used his relationship to learn more about what coming out is like for other people and find common ground with someone going through struggles similar to his own. Here was a safe space where Ben could drop his toxic masculinity facade and expose his inner vulnerabilities to someone else who would understand and respect him. Charlie would have left him for Nick eventually (because that's what happens in every universe), but Ben only hastened it by through his despicable treatment towards Charlie. He only saw him as a toy to vent his sexual frustrations on and gave him an unnecessary amount of trauma in the process, not realising the consequences of his actions when he had many chances to apologize. Ben brought this all on himself in the end.
Definitely, and I'm 100% on Charlie with this, but the final scene with the gay waves made me sad, he walked a way from it, making me think he is going even deeper into the closet and hurting a lot more people in the process, like Olivia said that's a "sad way of existing"
@@DannyRayqu I also find it particularly aggravating how Ben often tries to avoid answering basic questions or observations, like when Charlie calls him out for not caring about his feelings ("it's not like anyone else is going to want to go out with you") or when Nick warns him about treating Imogen badly ("Am I not allowed to like girls as well as boys?"). Even if he was suffering from internalised homophobia, I think that Ben would have been in a much better place if he allowed more of his vulnerable side to come out at the expense of being potentially made fun of by Harry and the other lads. Obviously it's impossible for me to know exactly what he was thinking, but the fact that he kept turning down the many chances he was given to turn a new leaf just frustrates me to no end.
I really wish we could have seen more of Ben with his parents. Ben's dad is probably a combination of the worst of Nick's dad and Darcy's mom.
Well, I know this is not a justification at all, but it is important to remember these are only 16 year olds right? Like Alex and Josh discussed, they are living in this really homophobic world with not supportive parents. It's not difficult to imagine the kind of homophobia Ben has probably been surrounded by which can make figuring things out for yourself really really difficult. Esp. at that age. I know I was a huge mess of confusion and defense mechanisms at that age!
@@mauritious1 That's 100% true but remember that the fact that you were traumatized doesn't justify traumatizing others, Ben is no longer a child he is capable of recognizing when he is hurting someone, we need to stop underestimating adolescents, he deserves consequences, he also deserves help, happiness and understanding but he is not free of consequences, hopefully he will become a better person and let Charlie be
I’m asexual and I would say, it’s not the same feeling as coming out. It’s the same feeling as if someone is gay but doesn’t know homosexuality exists, never heard of it their whole life and then suddenly, they learn about it and they’re like wow, that’s me. I guess it must be rare as hell nowadays, but imagine another century or something.
Thank you for sharing!! Yes that makes total sense ❤️
@@AStoryWorthTelling ☺
@@AStoryWorthTelling sidenote : Will Gao who plays Tao is gorgeous! Especially out of the show
Seeing Charlie confront Ben was a cleansing experience, and hopefully, it helps Charlie recover from the bullying and abuse later on. It is really important to show that you don't have to forgive those who hurt you, just because they apologize. I do hope Ben learns from this, and becomes a better person, so in his future relationships he can do better.
or he could killhimself because of that, its a possibility to or continue living on misery because ur deny the possibility to change.
Tori Spring (Charlie’s sister) is literally the Wednesday Addams of Heartstopper,she literally will dig her nails into your skin if you say anything bad about her brother or any of her family members and that just a start.
I’m not surprised if she will be able to make anyone pee their pants just by saying a quote.
If anyone literally anyone hurts or bullies Charlie in front of her,she will definitely end you & might be planning to dig your grave soon. Because people can be awful mean people who like to make people feel miserable but her loved ones are OFF LIMITS. Because if you do you are basically asking for a death wish.
If Tori met Harry & Ben and knew what they done to Charlie,what do you think she would do? And if she saw Harry & his friends picking on Charlie,what will she do to get them away from her brother?
I mean, Solitaire has two scenes in it that address that directly, because Ben does 6th form at Higgs
Wow, you guys went on a real journey of emotions! It was very deliberate not to give Ben too much redemption. His actions ripple across all of the next comics and novels. Therefore, the damage he causes is lifelong for Charlie. I thought it was dealt with very sensitively. Loved your reaction . You guys are so invested, and I love it. ❤. Hankies ready for the season finale.
Thoughtful and kind are the two words that always come to mind when reading Alice Oseman's work or watching Heartstopper. Even when Charlie says those "unpleasant" lines to Ben or Nick to his father, they are all coming from a place that is thoughtful and kind. Difficult situations require these words. It is only through those words that Charlie and Nick can let go and Ben has a chance to grow. Heartsopper is an amazing graphic novel but her writing for the show and the stellar cast they have assembled have elevated it into something so much larger. She has done the best job adapting it to television. I can't commend her enough for this. She is literally saving lives. And YES, there MUST be PROM OUTFITS!!!!!
I really hope they do more with Isaac's story going forward. It really bummed me out when he said "I know you think I'm boring" and his friends didn't do anything to assure him otherwise, or follow up with him at all. Regardless of sexuality, it's so hurtful when your friend-group moves from being a bunch of singles to coupling up and you find yourself being excluded.
Really good point!
Nick’s mum being referred to as Liv all the time is my favorite 😂❤
My sister and her husband were each other's first/only girlfriend/boyfriend and they have been together without any breaks since they were 16/17 and still going strong 4 kids later and celebrating their 10th wedding anniversary next week. They are only 33/34 so after Thanksgiving they will hit the point where they have been a couple longer than they were ever not a couple! That's crazy
Can’t wait to see their reactions to episode 8 as it’s such a emotional episode
Not sure if Tori would poison David... I guess they would find his body some morning, his blood being drunk dry with a straw. Would certainly explain how she manages to appear so silently.
She was never there……😶🌫️
Charlie doesn't owe Ben anything. Not forgiveness, nit well wishes. People like Ben can change, but they don't always. Ben hurt Charlie. Damaged him. Ben needs to leave him alone. Charlie is 100% right in what he said.
Agreed!
Just re-watched Season 1. *It was good to see that the Writers did include at least two scenes with Charlie avoiding food that I had overlooked.* The foreshadowing was there for this arc in Season 2. This is a very good example of what really good writing can do to create good storytelling. No AI created story would have / could have done that?
Have you noted any open ended nuggets in season 2 that might be developed in season 3?
I'm really hoping they have a 5-year plan for this adventure...
Heartstopper on a Monday!? I cant believe it thank you so much 😢 also good luck to Josh in the race in case he hasnt run yet xp
the scenes with Darcy & her suit hit me especially hard bc I know Darcy's actor Kizzy is nonbinary and uses they/he pronouns. they acted those scenes perfectly - like you guys pointed out, that initial excitement and anticipation and swirl of all sorts of complicated feelings. really great stuff
a much needed scene with ben charlie and nick. it shows people where boundaries need to be, which people slightly older (me) were told we shouldn’t have. “you don’t get to ambush me into forgiving you”. - saying- i didn’t respond to your messages i didn’t want to speak to you- you still want the power. and ben really in that scene didn’t seem to get that he assaulted charlie previously. sorry only means sorry if behaviours have changed. we are so used to seeing redemption arcs - but actually if we go back and watch some of them over the years we would see that it isn’t a healthy changing of behaviours apology.
Nick had his Heidi n closet moment "f*** u f*** u and f*** u imma worry about Nick"😂
To be fair,Ben kinda deserved to hear all of that since he did treat Charlie very badly like a human pet.
Ben took a lot from Charlie,so it’s about time that Charlie took back his power and told him off after everything that Ben did to him.
I get that Ben might come from a messed up household with parents that wouldn’t accept him for who he truly is but it’s no excuse how he treated Charlie & Imogen. Ben might of been going through personal issues at the time when he was with Charlie but he still traumatized Charlie for life,he’s the whole reason why Charlie’s has low self esteem not just with Charlie’s other bullies.
But Ben was not only a bully but a abuser to Charlie of physical & mental abuse. Ben was lucky enough that Nick & Charlie didn’t report him of his attempted assault when he forced himself on Charlie that day or worse Charlie’s sister Tori got involved with Ben and that could end badly with Ben once Tori is done with him since Tori would do anything at any extent to protect her brother and she can be very intense whenever she needs to be when it comes to helping her brother out.
I actually don’t think Ben is “the whole reason” for Charlie’s low self esteem. According to Tao in season one, that goes all the way back to when they met in year seven, and perhaps even further. I personally think Charlie’s mum’s parenting style played a role (look how her critical, controlling, negligent way of relating to him parallels Ben’s). I also love Charlie taking some power back here, because he’s not just taking it back from Ben, he’s growing out of being someone who gives away their own power.
I love this season so much because it really amplified so many different perspectives of the queer experience. The Darcy stuff is so powerful because she’s always the life of the party, very silly and outgoing you would never have guessed her home life but it makes so much sense in hindsight. I love how warm and happy this show can be but I also really love that they’ve sort of made a point to say that’s not everyone’s experience and this season just feels so much more grounded showcasing some of the trials and tribulations as well. Just really beautifully done I think.
While watching season 1 reactions, I saw more than once people shamefuly admitting they used to be like Ben to some level. I think the show has done an amazing job showing he was human, he isnt a big cartoon villain who is villain cause he is a villain, that he is a victim of the homophobic society we live in and is very isolated BUT the show also insists that none of that justify his behavior. It explains the origin of his behavior but it never justify it and makes it ok. Showing that his hurt made him extremely selfish and destructive. It is great that he wanted to apologize but he didnt think about if it would even be useful and healing for Charlie to hear that. Charlie didnt answer his messages for days and still, as Charlie said, he ambushed him to force him to hear his apology. It was a genuine apology (compared to Harry in ep 6), but I really think he had not fully grasped the full extent of the consequences his actions had on Charlie (like him smiling when Charlie mentions the first time he kissed him and how his face drops when he realizes how Charlie lived that moment) (or during the season with his discussions with Nick). Now he'll just have to sit with all that and do a lot of introspection
And another person who needed to hear some hard truths are Stéphane and David. I genuinly think Stéphane is gonna make more of an effort now, step by step even if we know he will never have a very close relationship with his kids (I mean, the guy has a wedding band, so he is married to Martine he mentionned in ep 6 and Nick never met her ... wtf ?!)
As for David, I have seen this type of behavior with older siblings maaaaany times, and it all comes from childhood jealousy. It is very possible that his parents' divorce affected him a lot (more than Nick who was younger), and if his mum paid a tiny bit more attention to Nick, he might have gotten a mix of fear of abandonment and jealousy that was all directed at Nick even if it wasnt his fault. And it stayed and rotted and continued until now. But what I have noticed with these type of sibling relationships is that, once the younger sibling starts to fight back, the bullying starts to stop. Like Sarah said to Jane "It takes a lot for Nick to stand up to David like that", which means he didnt use to stand up to him much before. So hopefuly this dinner will be a click and David will start to calm down little by little. Doesnt mean they will have a great relationship, but it wont be what it is now (and honestly seeing how buff Nick is, it was gonna become harder and harder to bully him XD)(All this about David is also why I dont like people saying Sarah is a perfect mum. She isnt. She and Stéphane had their role to play in how David grew up. She is fantastic with Nick, but something went a little eh with David)(and honestly, no one is perfect)
I agree that Sarah has flaws that others gloss over. My number one concern for her is that she seems a bit absent even when she’s present. Aside from the amazing coming out scene, many of her scenes with Nick are her beginning to connect with him and dropping pearls of wisdom and then drifting off again. Nick admitted to her that he didn’t know what to say to Imogen, and she didn’t sit down and help him figure it out. She didn’t really address David’s biphobia and how hurtful it was, instead focusing on David “winding Nick up,” and she ascribed Nick’s uncharacteristic illness to a touch of sunstroke from not wearing a hat while walking the dog. She’s just kind of…distracted, or gives her children so much space that they feel kind of lost. She’s lovely and supportive, but not as dialed in as I would have expected a single mom to be. I do think she had every right to snap at Stephan for criticizing David for the man he grew up to be. Stephane left ALL the parenting to her, and so he is also indirectly criticizing her parenting. She’s basically done the best she could, but the guy pointing out the lack is exactly the guy who left her with too much responsibility in the first place! That was quite rich, coming from him.
I want Tao’s mom to befriend all of the parents and give them the gentle guidance needed for them all to support their children better!
Love the rest of the points you made in your comment. You articulated beautifully a lot of the same thoughts I had, and a few I hadn’t considered. Thanks for sharing!
I have a theory that David became the way he did because Sarah leaned too much on him when the marriage ended horribly ("You'll have to be the man of the family now" sort of thing), and that David felt that Sarah forced him to sacrifice his childhood so that Nick could have his (who do you think had to pick up Nick after rugby practice in the early years?). Which is also why he acts like a 10-year-old attention-seeker.
@@lacynut oooh, that’s an intriguing theory! Regardless, it seems clear that David is jealous of how close a Sarah and Nick have become, and the divorce definitely hit him differently since he was much older. It’s obvious he still thinks the world of his dad, so I wonder if he blames his mom disproportionately for the split?
@@elisabethbauman6190 ooh that's interesting. Idk if i would call her absent though. For me these scenes being short comes more from the fact that they try to not write scenes that are too long with Olivia ^^' And also from future scenes that are in the comics I really dont see her as a distracted parent. But each their own character analysis !
I do 100% agree with you on her not calling out David's biphobia and homophobia and focusing on him cursing. That was something that was also in the comic, how long it takes her to properly call out David's behavior and protect Nick. And yeah while the coming out went really well, let's not forget she did assume her kid was straight before and he was nervous to tell her.
Being a single mum is very difficult, and I think overall she did an amazing job with Nick. But she isnt perfect. She clearly missed something with David.
And oooh how much it pisses me off how much in the extremes the fandom goes, comparing Sarah and Jane, saying Sarah is absolute perfection and Jane is a horrible parent (some even calling her abusive)
@@lacynut mmmh that could be a theory. But for me he acts too childish to be what happened. And when this happened, the anger is more often directed at the parent. Here he seems to get on normaly with his mum. The shit behavior is really at 100% on Nick.
But yeah I think too that the origin of his behavior comes from the consequences of the divorce. While Nick was 5 and doesnt have much memories of it, David was 9
We know there is a cut scene with Nick and David from episode 3. I would be really curious to see it. Any new material to fill our character analysis 😅
Alex’s fucking hell at the end of the episode… I feel like everyone said the same, or quite similar. This season is so real, it’s powerful to see. Episode 8… oh boy. I can’t wait to see your reaction.
I disagree, why should Charlie care about Ben being happy when he never cared about Charlie’s happiness? Literally in the last episode he was telling everyone he doesn’t even know Charlie. People are giving too much responsibility to Charlie for Ben’s wellbeing. Victims are not supposed to appease their abusers.
So nice to see the scene with Nick's family. He stated what he needed to say and it appeared to be cathartic. The scene with Ben was excellent, because Charlie didn't forgive Ben. This will give Ben a bit more time to reflect on how he treats people. Those were great scenes with some amazing work by these young actors. They are ALL so talented and the director really gets a LOT out of them.
Ben appears it and suddenly it’s like something out of Blumhouse Productions.
Bad behavior often stems from trauma. My heart broke when Ben turned away from the rainbow waves and when David BOUNDED down the stairs to watch his Dad leave. Both of them are hurting (and lashing out to hurt others) and it just sucks to know that.. not everyone (fictional OR real life) will necessarily ever get a chance to truly love themselves.. 💔
You have to try though, and that's what Ben and David didn't do. Charlie has a lot of trauma, but never stopped being a kind person. Darcy has a lot of trauma, but never stopped being a kind person. It's because they tried to and made an effort to not be cruel. Ben and David didn't.
sometimes you just have to use your brain cells and stop hiding behind excuses... something that Ben and David clearly never did in their lives
@@ipurpleu1668 not everyone grows and matures at the same rate. It's important to remember that these characters are still literally children. To be clear,This is not a Ben/David apologist post. This is a Ben/David empathy post. What they did was horrible and they deserve the repercussions of their actions (how else will they learn and grow?). But I can still be sad that Ben's upbringing has brought him to hate himself and that David's desperation for paternal validation has sent him spiraling into misogyny.
These things are sad.
@@marti9734 their lives that have lasted.. less than 2 decades? The lives of literal children. They deserve the comeuppance for their terrible actions, but as human beings we should also be able to extend them our empathy.
Ben hates himself and can't picture a future where he is loved and accepted for who he is. And David is DESPERATE for the love and validation of his father.
These boys could be in therapy for a decade and still not be done working that shit out.
@@InThisEssayIWill... I agree they are sad, but this isn't really a case of maturing. Charlie is not mature, he is struggling through a serious mental health crisis, whether he knows that or not. Darcy is not mature, which is a big reason why she struggles with admitting what is going on. Not hurting others intentionally isn't something reserved for people who are mature and having everything figured out. Charlie doesn't have everything figured out at all, neither does Darcy. It's the intentions. Ben KNOWS he is being cruel. David KNOWS he is being cruel. They are hurt and want others to feel that pain as well. Charlie and Darcy are hurt and NEVER want someone to feel that pain. That is the difference. I feel empathetic towards their situations, but not towards them and their choices.
You wait till the next episode it will floor you, the ending has the best acting from both seasons, and top tier acting in general, 2 young actors at the very top of their game. Kit and Joe deserve awards for the last scene, and you will need tissues.
Omg so excited
“You just haven’t found the right person” is a friendly thing for people to say, but also unintentionally is an extra punch in the gut. It’s a classic line I’ve heard when in my head I’m like ‘but why do I even have to find someone for people to believe I’m happy’. Or ‘why isn’t my love enough without the kissing and the official labelling..’
But to actually finally find the name for what makes you different is liberating. Like that lad said, ‘freedom’.
One thing about Nick Nelson is that he will be googling things.
Yes, his research gets more in depth with every volume!
You know what!!! ... what you said at the end "Im glad that we can watch it together and discuss different scenes ... cause there is a lot going on" unquote ... when I first watched Heartstopper I had no one to talk to it about it ... I desperately would have love to ... I found myself watching all the episodes over and over ... then I discovered you two and I sort of (as crazy as it sounds) got what I wanted because you were both discussing the programme and I was nodding and agreeing (or not) and in my mind discussing what you were discussing ... so thank you so much xx
Personally I’m glad that Ben didn’t get a full redemption arc. HS has a tendency to be a little too perfect, and by leaving him somewhat unresolved injected a bit of realism. I’m sad not to see Bash next season, but it’s the end for Ben.
Can we all stand up for Queen Tori? And I love the little nod Julio gives to Charlie when Nick went outside.
His father seems to be a lot more warmer than his mum. Remember when we first met his dad in season one. He was always kind to his son. He was there for Charlie after the party when Nick ran away from Charlie after their first kiss, his dad was there for Charlie to cry into his shoulder and the line "I've got you" I think is what he said to his son. Just beautiful. I always felt he was going to be a lot more supportive and understanding, but we did get a change in the mum's attitude to Nick after this dinner, which was nice to see.
Yes!! You’re the first person I’ve ever seen who pointed out Julio’s nod to Charlie! One of the higher levels of parenting is teaching your child how to be a good partner in their romantic relationships. I think Julio has great instincts, and I just wish he could take a stronger role in the joint parenting scenes.
I remember the actress saying she really enjoyed her role in this episode, I wish in general we knew more about her and saw her more often❤
Can’t wait to see your prom outfits! I mean last season finale you dressed in your school uniforms and it was so cute! ☺️. (Did you notice that Elle’s painting at the exhibit was inspired by the painting that she stopped and looked at in the Louvre?)
I've never watched a reaction video before I found you two doing RW&RB. It makes me laugh and it makes me think. Thank you from Texas in the US. Wonderful.
Thank you, so much, for expressing that it is okay to essentially say goodbye to people that you cannot be your genuine self with. Even if it's blood relatives. I know this, I've done this, and still it's so good to hear it sometimes from people who understand and/or really support this. More often then not I have to defend myself for not being in contact with people that supposedly you're to keep taking bs and abuse from, that do not and will not respect you for who you are. So, thank you, I really needed that. Also, love you two for many more things ;) but today especially for speaking up.
I‘ve seen so many reactions to this great series and yours is by far the one I enjoy most ❤️
I am so excited for the Prom fashion show for the finale! slay kings! 👑🏳🌈
16:48 That dinner scene is equivalent to a Tarantino’s gunfight in a closed room scene.
I love watching these videos with you guys because your reactions are so genuine and your humor is so humane and so observant
Love the new haircut 💈
This ep
Charlie's sister makes this episode, I absolutely love her character 😅❤
Josh, you nailed it, "Women want pockets!" Give me a great pair of cargo pants any day (though I have to buy men's pairs because the women's pairs usually don't have enough pockets 🙄).
You both aren’t prepared for the finale 😂 love this reaction and your channel! I also love this episode a lot
I didn’t expect the PROMPOSAL towards the end of the video Lmfao
I get almost as much enjoyment out of you two reviewing the show, as from the show itself. Great job boys.
Jane is rather harsh to her son. She hears he has a boyfriend and immediately jumps to distraction and neglecting school work which isn't the full picture. Nick wasn't just a boyfriend, Charlie met all his emotional needs from Nick. He isn't getting it from home, definitely not at school. Not mention, Charlie is mentally ill, harshly bullied the year prior, still bullied now, and sexually assaulted this school year. Yes, he's neglecting his coursework but Nick isn't the distraction. Nick is doing the job that Jane isn't. Its interesting that Nick and Sarah are aware that Charlie is anorexic but Jane isn't-- she lives with them.
already watched the uncut on patreon but i'm still here anyway! love love LOVE your reactions!
Your reactions are everything ❤
Tori in this episode is the gold standard of affirming person. Normalise kicking bigots’ phones.
Elle slaying with every other outfit is the costume storytelling we need in life.
Tao's mom is just perfect.
I love there showing parents that don’t support because that so realistic and not everyone has excepting parents ❤
And I wonder how Charlie's parents don't see it about his eating disorter. When Sarah and Nick does
I think Charlie should've went harder on Ben because he did get sexually assaulted and emotionally wrecked by Ben. Ben is an asshole regardless of whether he grew up in an accepting environment or not. I mean look at Darcy in comparison to Ben. No excuses
Omg love this I got to watch it early on patreon but will quite happily watch it twice. Love u guys ❤
I'm so excited to see your reaction to the finale.
charlies mom isint a good parent at all. charlie’s parents don’t even realize how bad their kids mental health is. nicks mom is the first adult to mention something about his eating. charlie’s parents do not pay attention. it’s emotional neglect. charlie doesn’t have a warm and attentive mom like nicks, charlie’s mom is more cold and detached. and what charlie did was so brave and strong of him. to stand up to his abuser was like gagging! GO CHARLIE!! he truly doesn’t get the recognition he deserves. and Ben doesn’t need charlie’s forgiveness at all…he came there to expect charlie to forgive and that would suddenly put ben on the right track…but no. ben needs to go take a step back and evaluate himself and begin to heal ON HIS OWN. away from charlie. like ben didn’t mean shit in his apology he was just saying how he wants to get back w charlie and that nick stole charlie from him…like?? charlie said right with hoping he becomes a better person but charlie does NOT have to be there to see it. charlie is valid!!! though it does reflect how his parents are the reason he is the way he is but then you look at darcy!! darcy has the same type of parents who are homophobic and will never accept her but does she take it out on others?? nope. that’s ben’s choice. to abuse others. to the point of making charlie hurt himself. and that’s never okay. so that’s why i don’t feel bad for ben honestly. i do hope he gets better but we don’t want to see him anymore or need him in the show!
I think what’s most interesting is to look at Charlie’s relationship with his his mum-where as you say, she doesn’t pay attention to him unless she’s being critical, and has a tendency to be controlling-and then how that plays out again in his relationship with Ben.
I am aroace and those scenes made me tear up. Growing up was so strange and scary cause i knew something was "wrong" and it took me so long to love my orientation it was crazy. I would have really needed something like this show
This series is a MASTERPIECE in young adult content. If they don't get awards for this, there might be NO hope for mankind. Ok, a bit dramatic, but you know what I mean. This series is on a whole other level.
20:15 I think you missed the remark she made to Sarah about Charlie and Tori being ‘dramatic’. No, she is not a good parent.
Thank you for saying that you also would make the assumption that your not the right person. I have the feeling sometimes you can't think anything anymore and you have to think for all the millions of options. But sometimes you just don't and that doesn't mean your not open to it.
I'm married to my high school sweetheart (36 years in June) but it's absolutely not common in any relationship. We've been friends since I was 14 and he was 17 and we eventually became romantic. We've worked at it but we get along so well and I can't imagine life without him.
Did Nick have some worries that Ben was going to steal Charlie back or something? Because the way Nick looked when Ben said that he wants Charlie back looks like Nick was trying so hard to stay calm.
Also you can tell how different Ben is now from S1 since in S1,Ben likes to pretend not to know Charlie but during S2 Ben DID TRY & talk to Charlie out in the open when they were having dinner and sat next to him on purpose. Which means that you can tell how more desperate & needy Ben is now to try and get Charlie back especially dating Imogen for either popularity points or it also could be for Ben to make Nick mad since seeing Nick with Charlie was making himself be mad that he decided to date one of Nick’s friends. And Ben also might have dated Imogen to try and get over Charlie.
Didn’t work since most of Ben’s attention was on Charlie not on Imogen before she broke up with him. By the way Imogen NEVER NEEDED Nick to tell her about what Ben did since she saw it for herself when she saw how uncomfortable Charlie was when Ben was trying to be around him and she remembered that Nick warned her about the stuff that Ben did despite Nick wasn’t being specific that Ben did bad stuff to a person (Nick didn’t want to tell Imogen since that would mean he would have to expose Ben and Nick is NOT THE KIND of person to out someone,no matter how awful the person is. But also because it involved his boyfriend and Nick didn’t want to bring Charlie into this since Nick really cares about him. And it only involved Ben & Charlie and Nick wouldn’t want to tell her about them since it wasn’t his business to tell. It was bad enough that Nick had to see it for himself of Ben’s unhealthy & abusive personality towards to Charlie that he had to get involved to save Charlie when Ben try to force himself onto Charlie that day).
Other than that they could be another reason why Ben apologized,not only to feel better about himself but to try and get Charlie back FOR THE LAST ATTEMPTED TRY. Because Ben KNOWS HE LIKED THEIR MOMENTS TOGETHER despite it was only kissing in private but was afraid what his parents would think of him that also seeing Charlie with someone else was hurting him especially dealing with the pain of being mad at himself for letting Charlie go (Since Charlie is A KEEPER. Any guy would BE SO LUCKY 🍀 TO DATE HIM) that Ben took all of that with anger to take it out on the person he actually wanted to be with (He could of only had a girlfriend for a cover up when he was seeing Charlie).
Looking back at the moments that Ben & Charlie had from S1,it was pretty obvious that Ben STILL HAD FEELINGS FOR CHARLIE since he breathes heavily whenever he’s around Charlie despite during the BULLY episode,he may have denied his feelings but you could tell in Ben’s eyes he regretted what he said especially stalking him outside was evidence enough even though it was creepy.
I wondered how did Ben knew Nick & Charlie was at the art exhibit? He probably saw Elle’s post and knew they were going to be there since they are her friends.
Ep 7 and 8, I cry so much for Darcy. :(
I think that nothing justifies Ben's behavior and that Charlie is within his rights not to forgive him. Just because you are not clear about your life does not give you the right to make others' lives imposible.
0:42 channelling Basil Brush there for a second, until the gigity instead of boom boom.
Looking forward to the bow ties next time! 🕺🏾🎀
Oh, Charlie's mum isn't done yet, she has plenty more fuckups coming. Looking at the most natural stopping point for season 3, a storyline that kind of got chopped up in the books that I'm looking forward to is Charlie's mum breaking the cycles that she was raised with (since Charlie and Tori's maternal grandparents are utterly dreadful)
aaa so excited I’ve been waiting for this video for days, you guys are saving my day lol
If there is one character in Heartstopper who would genuinely "end" someone to protect the one they care about, it is Tori protecting Charlie ... be afraid David ... be VERY afraid!
I am gonna miss these reactions so mutch once we get to the last episode.
Fun life fact I started writing a fanfic. About 2 characters from the dreamsmp. It is a minecraft roleplay server. There is no new content tho but I wanted to write a story
TORI SPRING IS MY SPIRIT ANIMAL..........She is just the badass queen.
As for Ben, I'm worried. Ben is terrified of who he is and what it means. I think we may cover teen un-aliving because of that internalised hatred. That isn't in the comics but it is a very real topic. but at the same time that will take away what makes it warm and fuzzy.
"women want pockets" FCKIN PREACH! is that too much to ask! Give us usable pockets!
Thanx guys, awesome, looking forward to next weeks vid
I think there should be some tissues for E8 by the way, maybe they could be helpful... 🌊
Tori, Nick and Charlie slayed this episode and I loved it ❤
Ep 8 is my fav and the one that actually makes me cry so get ready
As an asexual myself, growing up I did just think something was wrong with me. I had crushes, and for most of my young life I figured I'd have to marry a preacher cuz I assumed they weren't allowed to have sex. In teen years I thought I could make an arrangement with my spouse that they were allowed to go out and have sex with someone when they needed it. Once I found the word I did a whole coming out tour with each of my close friends and got to go through queer puberty at age 22.
Charlie's response to Ben was perfectly fine and justified for who Charlie is and what he's gone through. Hoping it got through to Ben, but knowing how I am, and how I used to be, I think I would've actually wanted to give Ben a response that was similar but a bit more calm and educational. For as long as I've know the discrimination of being gay, I've also lamented the state of people with whom I could have peace with, yet they choose war for no reason. People with internalised homophobia, people who seek negligible amounts of validation for bullying others, people who would be otherwise fine human beings if they didn't sabotage their own character. It's not my job to change or suffer fools, but after all these years of seeing humans could easily be better yet choose to be worse due to their own emotional inadequacies, I just feel sad. Most of us feel angry, but I just feel sad. Sad, and wanting change.
Ben didn't need Charlie's forgiveness, he just needed to change. Him wanting Charlie back is distracting him from what he needs to do internally.
I love u guys🥰 it’s so much fun watching u and I’m always looking forward to your videos 🥰🥰 where is the rainbow Apple Watch band from? Can u recommend it?!☺️
Is it just me who thinks that Charlie's mum looks like Nick and Nick's mum looks like Charlie?? hahaha sorry just a random thought - love the video by the way :)
It’s the hair, primarily, I think
@@elisabethbauman6190 hahaha true but coincidence? I don't know :)
I love your reaction and I love heartstopper.😍😂
Episodes 7 and 8 have emotionally wrecked us. #IYKYK
WOOO, more heartstopper content!! Loving your guys' content atm :)
Tao might be punching above his weight as far as poise goes. He's definitely a big geek. But he's objectively beautiful. William Gao was scouted on the street and has done legit modeling gigs before "Heartstopper" fame.
Your reactions are always amazing. I love episode 7 but nothing will ever top episode 8. Be prepared with tissues in case I cried at it but I cried for probably 2 or 3 hours out of the 4 hour season soooooo. Still have tissues just in case.