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This Build Is SO EASY, It Can Even Win When ... Crystal Maiden in Dota 1x6
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2023
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"I don't really like fun" -Baumi out of context, 2023
9:13
I took a game design class in university, and we talked a bit about "what makes a game good", "what is good game design", "what is balance", "what is fun", etc.
The course chose to answer with Engagement Theory. I don't remember much about it, but it starts by analyzing how a player interacts with a game - from literal controls and visuals to intensity - then builds different ways that it could interest a person. Things like challenge, emotional investment, catharsis, immersion, competition, etc. And I remember talking about how most games people claim are well designed follow a pattern of mainly focusing on two forms of engagement, often with some level of the others.
I like it because it makes sense as a way to explain why a game feels well designed while also not being too restrictive and subjectively defined.
09:14 "...I don't really *like* fun.." - Baumi 2023 xD
Always fun to hear Miki in the mid-vid reminders xD
Hey Baumi! Just wanted to say I’m really enjoying the Stories of Dota channel! I can’t wait for the next video
This war of mine is the king of wargame from the perspective of a civillian. it is awesome
The "horrors of war" you mentioned was actually portrayed quite well in a recent "Amnesia the Bunker" game. Its short, yet devs are really proud of its gameplay mechanics, and I think its one of a few well designed games in a last couple years
to me good game design is when it makes me feel like im not wasting my time and makes me satisfied after finishing it
That means all games are worthless in that matter, except some great educational games or the ones that train general skills, like reflexes, memory, focus, communication, etc.
Not many game emphasize those, but you yourself can focus on those, if that's why you decide to play the game, because games generally make learning easier.
For some more complex skills, you're better off spending time actually studying/practicing. It'll be very rare to see a game that teaches specific or complex skills outside of its own mechanics.
An exception is, for example, "programming" via redstone in Minecraft. Though it's still not as viable in actual job, in my opinion.
@@onekoff8480 seems more like there is an issue with your definition of "not wasting time". Your comment shows that you consider every game that isn't "great educational" as a waste of time since you interpreted OPs statement of "a good game is when it makes me feel like I am not wasting my time" with "that means all games are worthless". Games are often emotional outlets, stress relieve valves which isn't educational but of great value. OP was most likely talking about games that don't employ time waster content. A negative example would be Dragon Age Inquisition which added a bunch of extremly time consuming gather quests with little rewards to pad out the game time so they could use the long time that it would take an average player to complete the content much longer and they could therefor point out what "great game cost to play time value" the game has.
"Wait a sec, wait a sec, one second" and then the run 😂😂 love your content as always
It felt like he was just describing Valiant Hearts, which is a heartbreaking masterpiece of a game about a world war
It took me a while to watch this video. You were answering my question when the internet went down. I thought this game wouldn't be a video because of the disconnection. Congratulations for the dedication!
14:08 so basically "The war of mine" which is cool game. but its rly sad and depressing for those ppl who knew about horrors of war for common folks.
7:50 most people playing hardcore or pvp games are looking for a challenge because that's fun. All games made for players to have fun. You can have fun by listening to good story in the game, good gameplay, challenging gameplay, you absolutely can have fun by being terrified. People go to watch scary movies to get scared and have fun.
Damm its great to see you still doing content. even though i have not played dota 2 for 6-7 years
That leave a like on the video skit always makes me laugh 😂
Ye his skit is great stuff
16:20 another example of "not fun" game - GRIS. It doesn't have a lot of gameplay, most of it sucks, but when it works, it works not through a "playing a game" mode, but as another mode of immersing into the emotion that the whole game is all about. For example, as a part of "anger phase" you slam through breakable floors. Not because it is mechanically entertaining (it's just a straight well), but because in the context it allows you to merge with the heroine and her feelings even more, sharing the active expression of the emotional state.
Overall, majestic game, the art, music and story are a masterpiece, highly recommend. The gameplay is mostly crap though, so be ready to ignore it.
Complaining about power outages, where here in South Africa we have electricity loadshedding, which is unknown in other parts of the world. Loadshedding is basically the power supplier in SA does not supply enough electricity, so they turn of certain parts of the country for 2 - 12 hours a day to make up for the demand
Thank god, ive been waiting too long for crystal maiden 1x6, plz do all builds. she is very enjoyable to play and fun and OP
About game design, if you take for exemple the game This War of mine, it's an incredible game, but not fun at all. You manage a group of civilians during a war, and you have to make some horrible choice to survive. Like you have no food, and you have to steal from the old, hepless neighours. Or you can't give some medecine to 2 poor childs who have their mother dying because you need it to survive yourself.
The game was made by some people who have lived in Yougaslavie during the war, so they know the reality of war.
17:19 i prefer games with powerful emotions, it may be happiness, or sadness, but i want them. (Nier Replicant/Automata for example, or SOMA)
A misconception that I think Baumi has is that he thinks something being "Fun" means that it is the same thing as it being "Funny", but they are somewhat different terms, as long as one is enjoying doing something then it is Fun, it is part of the defenition of the word.
Good game design is game design that helps designer enhance/support the idea that he wants to enforce in his game.
'Brothers: A tale of two sons' is a story about heart break, desperation and loss. The gameplay is a bit too linear but while you are playing you mostly have a really good time and the experience left me moved in ways I have never felt by a game.
10/10 would recommend!
I think whether or not a game is fun, it shouldn't be overly frustrating without a story reason. Like suppose there's a game that simulates the monotony of office life for a portion of the game, that part can be boring to make a point about whatever, but it also shouldn't be frustrating. I think, for me, it comes down to activity vs passivity. When you're playing a game, you have to be making active choices to both continue playing (because the story literally won't happen without your input), and attempting to achieve the goal the game sets out for you (or disobeying it, or choosing the secret third option, etc.). Whereas for movies, you have to take an active step to *stop* the show (get up and pause/change the channel), and the goal the movie has laid out happens regardless of your input, except for ending it entirely.
Which is to say, when your choices make you feel frustrated, it's a much worse feeling than when the main character of a show makes you feel frustrated. I quit playing The Talos Principle when I made a spoilers choice because it sent me right back to the beginning of the game with no way to reload my progress. Like I get that that was a story reason, but I have yet to work past the bad feelings it gave me and get back into the game to play the actual ending. Whereas when I'm watching The School Of Rock, and Jack Black does a stupid thing, I keep watching because while it frustrates me, it's not me making the actual choices.
That, to me, is what constitutes good game design. Your game has to make the player want to continue playing.
you do kinda have a point, but you essentially justified battlepasses as good design
@@ohnudes How so? Also I don't think battle passes are inherently bad design, it just depends on implementation.
@@OliviaSNava I was refering to your last sentence. But i'm conscious that you don't actually mean to justify fomos and predatory engagement.
@@ohnudes Oh I see what you mean haha I do think battle passes that encourage engagement is fine, good even. I agree, when they're predatory it is a problem.
Topic of game design, something I learned while doing my economics a few years ago is that people only do things if they are worth the time cost of doing it. (The concept of utility in microeconomics). Movies that are miserable to watch still provide a positive experience (not fun, but positive). This makes it worth our time to watch (or play) them. I sorta disagree with games with intent is good game design since it is just not enough to have intent. A game needs to make it worth the player’s time, whether it is challenging and rewarding, or “fun”, or deep and meaningful, horrific, and can all be called good game design.
On the subject of shooter games: The closest game I've played so far where you can see the horror images you make yourself is Spec Ops: The Line. Which, in my opinion, has often been sadly overlooked.
I think good game design is adding and keeping things that maintain or enhance the vison of the game, and keep elements that don`t out.
In my opinion, good game design can be various things: message presented to player, aesthetic or gameplay experience, synergy of various game elements, etc.
That's because games consist of more than just gameplay and game systems/mechanics (though preferably it should be the priority). There are graphics, sound design, story, game's philosophy, etc. etc.
But if we talk about good game design in terms of gameplay, my opinion is that a good game should:
1. attract the player (aesthetically or gameplay-wise),
2. challenge them from time to time and
3. provide new gameplay experience - provide new mechanics to explore that fit organically into player's knowledge.
The two golden rules of good game design I find are:
1. Replayability - which means players have more to learn even on replying the same games, be it because of branching story paths, or, much better, on variable mechanics that can be utilized in many different ways.
2. Easy to learn, hard to master. The first part is not necessary if you intend to attract players with something else, but for popular games it would be better to go easy on new players. However, hard-to-master games generally mean that they provide a lot for players to learn, to explore, which I believe to be a good game design.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
P.S. I stole this joke from some other CZcams comment I saw some time ago :P
that miki lipsync was so cute
Gotta leave a like on the rideo
17:15 if you're familiar with original doom, check out doom mod "The Thing you can't Defeat" (or a playthrough)
on the subject of a game that is not fun but is incredible i always talk about Pathologic2, i think that Baumi has already played it , and the game is a about a an pandemic, and my favorite youtube video of all times is about this game.
( the video is from Filipe ramos - and is in brazilian portuguese )
Pathologic 1 is even more art, way more suffering, way more art
Great stuff
I'd like to say that A Plague Tale Innocence is a good example of a well designed game not meant to be fun. It shows the absolute devastation that a plague can bring especially back when medical knowledge was lacking.
The build that I really want to see is Pangolier Ult just because Ball. Dunno how it works tho
Mood booster yeaahhh
In the end dota is enjoyable and we love it
16:00 what epic is referenced here? kill on SF at 15:55 didn't give a charge of epic upgrade.
oh miki we miss u xD!
Baumi, the greatest gamer there is, with another commom W
7:35 well design game isn't always fun, but addictive like you miss out when not play the game. for example gacha game with daily reward towards the gacha. stressing game like horror game we probably play once, getting traumatic but got story to tell hahaha
Hey baumi idk if it's possible but it would be great to see which hero is the strongest with all the legendaries, if we can't see that who do you think is the strongest. Btw great content on both channels
I think that would be Alchemist, E legendary is just annoying to play with
sf is strongest, R complements E and W builds and hybrid builds are used. plus after a stage sf becomes interactable unless u have phenoix save.
I think the most likely to win is either alche or muerta
Both are extremely strong late game heroes plus all their legendaries work well together
But I do think if muerta and alche faces on a 1v1 muerta is more likely to win since she has a lot of cheese to play
Skit is gold XD
what a twist
What you said about a game about the horrors of war - it exists.
The opening to Battlefield 1 campaign is just like that. You play inside a warzone and every time you die you see a soldier's name and death year, and you take a different soldier's POV.
It's about fifteen minutes that whatever you do, however well you play or how far you try to run away, you will always die. You did nothing and you just move to the next cannon fodder to play as.
Did I have any fun playing it? Not at all.
Did I enjoy it? Absolutely.
This should have been a fun vid baumi 😅
Can someone tell me the name of the world war I movie, please? Could not understand that
Is this a reupload? I recognise the game design convo from an older video
Baumi Jumpscare at...
The game about the horrors of war that makes you feel terrible exists it is called spec ops: the line. But why do that when you can do both like with the original Bioshock
Am example of a game designed to have a billion items would be the borderlands games. So many procedurally generated guns in those games, it adds to the fun and feeling of scavenging and the idea that you will never find an identical gun again. As opposed to Halo games which have fewer guns, and each gun is meant to feel unique and to fill a specific niche in the gameplay and in the culture that the gun comes from.
Halo would not be a better game with borderlands guns, and borderlands would be very boring if it had a narrow selection like halo.
Also Papers Please is one of my favorite games ever. And I wouldn't say it's "fun" one of the few game that emotionally punishes you both for success and failure.
Is baumi allergic to blademail?
If i were to say what "FUN" is ? It is basically doing something u enjoy every person have their own preference or what fun is some people like it to enjoy spicy food for example that is why i would say fun is one of those words that is dependant on the person. BUT that is my opinion unless you actually make a parameter of somesort fun is something still dependant on the person
Hey baumi i just finished playing roshan defence reborn that was the most relaxing and fun game ever you should check the game out .i wish you a wonderful day
what is good game design?
I can't really answer that question or anybody though because its really general question. Maybe one that is "fair and procedural"?
I mean procedural as a replayability.
A well designed game is a game that sets out to do its intent and players can agree it did that intent well. If a linear story driven short game tries to be something else in the middle, people won't enjoy that game then. If people don't like the mechanics of a game, then it didn't achieve the intent it was aiming for. I do like using intent for this, it's a lot more open to discussion than fun. Fun's an opinion word, not something you can put pros and cons on. You could say this mechanic is fun to me, or this mechanic isn't fun to me, but that doesn't really have a backing to it like intent would.
It looks like you are whispering soft words into my sweet ears..
When what?
For me a fun game is a game that gives you freedom. That's why MOBA, metroidvania and roguelike games are superior to me, you have tons of ways of playing them
sweet as
Intent alone isn't enough, of course. Designing something to be a specific way is only "good" if it ends up actually being that way- if the designer is successful in their endeavour. Further, it is not always possible (especially for a designer) to know if they were successful in their design. There are a metric assload of games with very deliberate game design that are still poorly designed simply because they failed to achieve that intent- whether it was a matter of simply not making it right, or if the manner in which they designed it didn't allow for their intent, or if they were simply wrong in their assessment that the design they made actually had the effect they intended it to have (even if the design is accurate to their intent, as opposed to simply messing up and making the wrong thing).
Everyone has different definitions for what fun is, that is the basis for game genres. Furthermore, even games which are not well designed at all can be fun (Such as those godawful Orion dinosaur wave defense games, made by a scoundrel rotten company with stolen assets and lazy corrupted practices. Despite the flaws, it's a fun game to play because of purely how silly the game is- fun almost as a parody of itself).
Conversely, however, it is very easy to identify bad game design. And its obvious why, of course. A bad game design is one which does not fulfill the purpose it has, or somehow runs counter to some other more important aspect or design within the game. Or, perhaps most rigidly, is so amazingly unfun and bad (even if it is accurately achieving the purpose it was designed for) that noone wants to play with it (Which would be a case of a developer simply not knowing what players within their genre want to play). Genre functionally *is* a shorthand term for referring to a collection of design principles which makeup the core of the game (referred to as the gameplay loop, more often than not). I'll not go into a rant here about genre, however, as I could talk about genre for hours (especially the flagrant misuse of the MMO tag).
Of course, designer intent isn't always necessary either. It is entirely possible for someone to "strike gold" in a sense, and hit upon a design that is good and that people enjoy even without really intending for it to be that way. At which point most devs will pivot and embrace that design or reject it and move on to something else (or worse, nix the design entirely and ruin their playerbase xd).
The lag is xeno attempt to balanced the game
surprise ending: Baumi losee
"is dota fun?"
Base game no, custom games absolutely
Idk what's good game design, but I do know what's bad game design by my personal preference: netflix with buttons.
Dota is fun only when playing 5 man party
15:04 No, you didn't.
imho dota was fun before it became competitive and demanding, so was any other e-sport. If dota was never fun then it wouldn't pop off at the first place😮
What makes a popular game not fun is it's engagingness surpassed the level of "fun".
voice feels muffled this video
1
Thanks for disabling chat in the intro. :D
They have a tendency to spoil the rest of the video. Oh chat..
First :-p
Baumi does NOT like fun
God, the lag! This was painful to watch, I hope your internet service becomes more reliable.