Thanks again to my brother who did the intro with me :D He is also an artist if you want to check him out here is his instagram: instagram.com/jasdavi92/
And i was wondering, why your bro doesn't make youtube videos anymore or at least twitch streams. Clicked on the link to his instagram. Ooooh boy, now i see why. Now the day has finally come that i can't avoid creating an insta account, cause i like his stuff and want to follow him. Great. PS: he doesn't have a deviantart account, does he?
I loooooove the calculator example. As an engineering student we use the calculator to check if 2+2 is 4 but no calculator will ever tell you how to find the line integral of a scalar field. The same happens with drawing and 3D models. No 3D model will ever tell me how to succesfully create a character or how to paint correctly. That's the difference between artists and engineers. We don't care about the process as long as it is efficent and the final product is good enough (not excellent but decent lol)
@@huynguyenmanh5271 She's an engineering student. Engineers work out calculations and problems, and those calculations go into real world things. Like bridges.
If 3D is cheating let's all just stop using layers, liquify or any selection tools as it is not fair to traditional artists. Welcome to the professional art world kids.
Yep, its like someone saying a carpenter is cheating if they use a circular saw rather than a hand saw. Its the results that count. And if you can save time and expense by using a "power tool" then you'll get more done with less effort. Its simply more efficient.
By some peoples logic the people who did the rotoscope animation for those Disney classics aren't real animators because that's just frame by frame tracing😂 But it's also important how it's rendered out. Anyone can trace but experts and even a novice know how to do line wight, opacity, color pallet, etc.
Every single art tool would be considered cheating compared to the option of not using it. Erasers are considered cheating by people who dont use it/cant use it cause they do painting in traditional Digital is considered cheating as a whole by many traditional artists for the ability to infinitely alter or duplicate a piece without physical limits Fuck, even trad artists who could afford better quality PAPER to color in are sometimes called cheaters by those who cant afford it cause the colors look prettier on them. I say, as long as you're the one using the tools and creating, rather than relying on a fucking AI to do literally everything, using any tool is not cheating.
Agreed. I'm only just getting into digital art after 3+ years of drawing, and I can't wait to use 3d models as reference to make sure I get the proportions right and equal. People who criticize artists for using reference models to produce art faster and more accurately have obviously never seriously gotten into drawing. Rule of thumb: Use reference of some kind WHENEVER. YOU. CAN. . . Also _insert generic "You again lmao" comment_
Before being proud of yourself, you must first admit that your skills are imperfect. You must admit that without your program, your art would look not nearly as good as the kind you make with your program. If you're seriously proud about having imperfect skills, then admit to it.
I'll never understand why people get upset about artists using 3D models. Unless you're an absolute elitist, I would presume we all look at artwork to appreciate its beauty or message, and we read comics to enjoy the story. We consume these media for the end product, not the skill or the process used to make them. So long as the process doesn't involve anything that hurts anyone else (ex. plagiarism, tracing other people's art) and the end product is enjoyable, that artist has put something beautiful out into the world that wasn't there before, and that's what matters. Anyway, lovely video, as always! ❤ Thanks so much for addressing this issue.
@@TinZzzzE the eyes are hard to make identical but you can copy one eye reverse it and change it's orientation though using 3d models in my opinion is limiting so ill just sketch them myself
Technology: here, there's this powerful tool that is affordable to anyone and will help you all be more efficient. Of course, only if you want to use it. You can draw however you prefer! :D Artist community: HOW DARE YOU!?!? drawing should be hard and make you suffer, if not you're obviously doing it WRONG
In the end, technology makes things easier for us. When things get easier, it requires less work. When there's less work required, then there's less strength. When there's less strength, there comes weakness. That's the thing with the privilege of technology.
@@ghost4439 You see here's the funny thing. Despite all the points you made, they still haven't disproven my claim. Let's face it, our technology is practically killing this world, and if cars, escalators, and construction equipment never existed, you wouldn't be defending them. And you know what the scary part is? Our technology will never stop evolving, meaning life's just gonna become more and more easier until even the little things that feel like a breeze to us turn into hell for the people in the future. It's not like I'm saying we should abandon all of our technology though. We've already gone so far, there's no going back. Back then, people never had all of this technology, so they had to suffer more. The more they suffered, the stronger they became. People back then probably had a stronger will power than us. And you know what's funny? Despite everything you said, you didn't make any effort to disprove my original claim. That technology is making us weaker. All you did was defend technology. And you know what my original point was? That using 3d models is cheating. When you use 3d models in art, you're making your job easier. Art is a skill, and skill can only be obtained through hard work. It's not really impressive if you use a tool that makes things easier for you. I mean, think about it. You expect your work to be admired if anyone could easily replicate it? For some odd reason that never comes to mind doesn't it?
"Does the simple use of a calculator make the average student suddenly a world renowned mathematician?" sent me XD What a great example. Just bc you use a calculator doesn't mean you're good at math. If you don't understand the basics and the principles, then using a calculator doesn't mean anything. You could use the calculator and still come up with the wrong answer. It's the same for drawing. Sure the 3-D model makes it look easy, but you also have to take into account that 3-D models can break or crease oddly and then that's where your knowledge of anatomical structure comes into play. A 3-D model also doesn't show the muscle or bone structures which means you'll need to either rely on a *reference photo* or your own knowledge of the human body. And unless you're planning on drawing all your characters with no faces, bald, and naked, you need to know how to draw facial features, hair, and clothing, which is also something you either need experience or reference photos to create. The fact that people think it's easy to just trace over a 3-D model and have it instantly look good infuriates me. If it was that easy, then you go do it. Let me know how it works out for you.
I also loved the calculator example. As an example in my class half of the persons are failing, even thought we always use calculator. But that's because they don't know how to use it. At our math exams they evaluate more if you can correctly pass the x than if you can add all the x and numbers. Because the calculator can't pass x, that's the important part. The 3D models are more eficient and fast if it's a complicated drawing, still you won't get a masterpiece with bare 3D models, because anatomy is only a component of drawing, not the base.
People who proudly proclaim they don't use art references make me sad and frankly confuse me. The thing about art is we're incapable of creating something 100% from imagination. EVERYTHING is based on something in the 'real' world, and it's just a matter of how well you remember it. I recall a conversation with my psychology major friend who was talking about diminishing returns with memory and how every single time your brain accesses a particular memory it slightly modifies it. Meaning every time you remember the same thing it's a little less accurate than it was the last time. Take a moment to think about how poorly that can affect things you draw. This is exactly why you *should* use references and things like 3D models, etc. Not only use them but *regularly* use them.
This, all of this! And so many people will say "3d models wont substitute learning" like its some huge revelation. We know that! And we examine actual anatomy and real life versions of poses before or even in conjunction with using 3d models. The models are simply a helpful tool like...?! I genuinely don't understand why elitists believe that people who use 3d models only ever, and only will ever, use 3d models.
@@bluebay1031 people are dumb and I think these people who said “cheating” consider as not experienced artist well you can improve by drawing but not the anatomy human body
> Take a moment to think about how poorly that can affect things you draw. Or how it can help you with your concepts, actually. Re-re-re-remembering helps to "purify" and mutate a concept or a design. Draw from memory a rough, then bring in the refs for details and fixing up the errors.
Love how they only bash on digital artists when traditional artists have their own models too made for them. I use both traditional and digital and I use the models for both. Literally see no reason why this is still a debate
@@kpopandtea6864 Honestly, nobody can trust leave it be and just admire the work that was still made. Instead they just wanna start arguments over all of this
I'm dead because the amount of times I've caught myself making the models 'jiggle' absentmindedly is ridiculous but I'm so happy I'm not the only one 😂😂
This prime example of work smarter and not harder. There is professional storyboarder on youtube that draws on top of reference and turns around storyboards very quickly
It's like not using a ruler to draw a straight line. Also, I feel like it helps beginners (like me) calibrate the eyes because what we see close up while drawing looks different from what you see zoomed out (actual). You actually learn to draw poses faster because your eyes become trained faster at how it should look in your perspective while drawing.
+ fastens the process because I don't usually find the right references for poses quickly Instead of googling hours and hours the very specific poses I just use the close ones + 3d models + anatomy images etc and honestly I learn faster this way
funny aint it i tried so hard and never got so,, in the end i never improve. its like doing weights and never gaining. its like i work twice as hard as anyone. but its for not. i need a pros judgement/critique on my art vid..
Here's the thing: Sometimes adjusting 3D Models is more time consuming than drawing one. So no, it's not cheating lol. I've tried doing it both ways and the other one is not easier than the other, 3d models simply gets your proportions and angles better.
Yet another case of people bashing accessibility tools. Using 3D models as a guide for poses and composition is a fantastic way for artists to reach into ideas previously unreachable. I personally have a very hard time thinking in 3D spaces, and have very little spatial awareness, so having some "dolls" to pose and take reference from is crucial to being able to draw scenes that aren't just the classic head-and-shoulders-3/4-view portraits for me. The dolls are just the bones of the characters anyway, you still need to skin, clothe, and style them, and add expressions, effects, backgrounds, etc. The people who accuse artists of cheating for using the tools they have available to them probably can't even draw good stick figures anyway, or are just bitter about not having these tools themselves during their own formative years.
people like that tend to think that you use the model and somehow the whole illustration will finish itself magically on its own... they don't even realize that posing the wooden dolls "like the old masters" is basically the same, you just carry over what you see, not work over what you see... sometimes they don't even use any reference at all and tend be like "if i used it, it would be too easy" all the while their stuff still looks like from the third grade and they have no understanding of basics whatsoever .-.
Same, I have severe aphantasia and can't imagine anything voluntarily in my head. I even have a hard time with references because I forget what I saw as I transition my eyes from the image to the canvas. I also have really bad ADHD and neuropathy which doesn't help at all. For years I drew characters from scratch and it would take me over 10 hours just to have a basic pose that look somewhat decent. This only made the process of drawing incredibly frustrating and unenjoyable... And I don't see the point of me doing art if I can't enjoy the process. I have been using 3d models for the past few years and it's helped to bring back the fun of making illustrations, even though it still takes me quite a bit of time and effort due to my personal challenges.
@Paige Loren not really you don't HAVE to trace over the models you can simply place the model to the side and draw what you see. You could take a picture of your irl 3d model trace it. Thats what people with light boxes do
@@superchickgirl23 I think what they mean is that the method of tracing over them is heavy referencing, and you won’t learn as much compared to if you do ‘normal referencing’ (having it to the side to look at as a guideline). also using this, your art won’t look good unless you already have a good understanding of anatomy, so it doesn’t help that much.
It's crazy coming into the visual arts from a musician background. People celebrate music being exponentially easier to make every year, but art being more accessible to make is bad? Its not like you arent making creative decisions constantly while using the 3d assets. Great vid.
This helped with my confidence. Awhile back I had someone tell me I wasn't really drawing for using these and it honestly made me not want to draw all that much. I try and study proper anatomy and making my own poses from hand occasionally as I want to be an overall better artist, but the models have helped me with having better proportions and position of that anatomy. I've had all these ideas for drawing but I just don't wanna be called a fraud for just wanting to draw.
Don't listen to them They are just salty that their years of suffering and struggles are invalidated because new and better tech are coming to make lives easier for us It's the same with how Knights/samurais got really salty over the usage of guns, their years and years of training could be ended by just a gun Or how wagons deemed the first cars unsafe and dangerous and how horses are more reliable, their years and effort training an obedient horse suddenly voided by a machine thay moves Evolution, progress is constant and is now Why should we suffer? When we could make our lives easier? Stay salty, art elitists
Honestly, sometimes I just Want To Draw something, but then anatomy and posing kicks me in the butt and I end up going "welp, guess that lives in my brain forever" and I get sad about it 😅
I literally couldn't care less if it's "cheating" to trace 3D models. I'm not drawing because I need your approval or to prove something; I am just trying to tell a story in a comic as efficiently and effectively as I can. The ends justify the means. I don't need to "earn" the right to draw something.
Also can you imagine using only this as reference and changing it for every panel of a comic? It’ll take forever and it’s too time consuming. I use it mostly for feet (they’re so hard to draw) and saves so much time when you’re drawing a long story. People who don’t draw are the ones who criticized.
exactly. every time after making a panel, you have to adjust the pose to make a whole new one which still obviously takes time. and then there's cleaning up (and possibly colouring/shading) all the pages too. in the end, it's still art you've made :/
@@lllinai i would only use it for the most important panels, I can manage to simplify the rest and make it look great, hope y’all keep drawing and improving
@@MegaPieru3000 I've been drawing for almost 30 years now and have taken several anatomy and art classes, including life drawing, throughout grade school and college with a minor in game art... including 3D character modeling and 2D animation. I have taught art classes to undergraduates (though they were focused on composition). So to answer your question, yes, I can draw without models and am confident enough in my art to not have to bring other artists down to feel good about myself. That's why I can say with certainty that trying to gatekeep the hobby I love is the height of arrogance and this elitism is one of the big reasons why new artists are so scared to share anything with the art community for fear of being flamed. I don't remember saying I'd ever used the 3D model tools before, which outside of playing around with them, I haven't. I understand you jumping to conclusions (particularly as I was using the first person to emphasize my point), and don't resent you for doing so as, again, I don't think there's any shame in using the tools. So while I don't have the need, nor really the desire, to use the 3D tools, I don't demean people who do. After watching this video I definitely will consider using them for reference now and again, though the actual model construction doesn't really work with the art style I'm currently running with. I understand that you aren't actively demeaning people who use the tools, you're just saying they will never really understand, and thus never enjoy art, until they start drawing humans from scratch, if I'm reading that correctly. While not attacking them as artists, I'm sure they would still find it to be an elitist viewpoint and extremely insulting - though I can't speak for them. It's like telling someone who loves to make food by following recipes, "you're not allowed to have fun cooking unless you invent your own recipes". You could argue that they perhaps "don't understand cooking" in the sense that they don't know how the science works and gastronomic theory in order to make their own recipes, but at the end of the day, if they are having fun with the process, and the food they make is enjoyed by themselves and others (or even NOT lol - again, it's the process that brings the enjoyment), then who am I to tell them that they are "enjoying the hobby wrong"? I get where you're coming from 100%, as drawing from the mind tends to be very enjoyable for me and many others I know (though it's also piss poor practice if you don't have reference, as it will just reinforce bad habits), but to say someone "isn't a real artist" because they use 3D model reference is absurd. Not that I'm saying YOURE saying that, but I've seen plenty of others who share that sentiment. Also, your comment seems to imply that the only thing one can draw is human figures. These models won't help with environments, animals, catoonishly proportioned characters (or just inhuman in general) or the like. So it's entirely possible for someone to "understand it", as you put it, through their love of drawing subjects OTHER than non anatomically correct humans etc. You're trying to tell me an artist, lets say one as skilled at environment painting as Bob Ross, doesn't "understand the joys of art" just because that person might not be confident in drawing anatomical humans, and thus uses 3D model tools for them? As a game development major, I can tell you that the very first thing you learn is, "fun is subjective" - so your assumption that you know what is "fun" for everyone is extremely presumptuous - though a very common mental trap that I can't fault you for. If someone is having fun using the 3D tools, then let them. Might they find more fulfillment by drawing from scratch? Maybe. But that's up to them to discover and I'm not going to try and push them away from drawing by lashing out at them before they get that chance. Not trying to say that you necessarily think the opposite of all this as, again, I see that the main intent of your comment was more or less a suggestion for artists to break outside of their comfort zones and maybe find more enjoyment that way - an idea I support. It's clear that you are simply passionate about making art and want others to be able to experience that same passion that you feel for themselves. I just think your delivery of that idea may need some work, and I simply took this time to flesh out my stance a bit more as well. I would have personally worded your comment as, "Have you tried drawing a character without using the 3D models? If not, you may be surprised by how fulfilling it can be. It can really free you up creatively and help speed up your drawing workflow, so I recommend giving it a shot." I've kept the spirit of the message without the elitist undertones. As a rule of thumb, using the phrase, "you people" is poor rhetoric.
@@MegaPieru3000 smh. You can learn from tracing. Just don't rely on it for everything you wanna learn from., tracing over anatomy can help you figure out things you would not have noticed just by lookin and get a better idea of perspective, at least it helped me learn. Personally I think people should do a bit of both. Models are fine especially for comics when the person is more interested in telling their story then selling art for money.. Also they clearly wanna do digital art that's why they said they were using their fingers so why offer pencil and paper? I do both traditional and digital and learning digital was like relearning art. No clue why people say it's easier. It's not. You just have every brush and paints there instead of having to pay for them in real life.
@@MegaPieru3000 Yes, but hilariously enough, I learned anatomy from tracing images of muscle structure, so I feel nothing from using these 3D models XDDD
Ah yes because 3d models with magically teach you shading, how to draw clothing, the face proportions, colors, art composition, make you do perfect lineart, comes with a full package on how to use layers, you just have to erase the 3d model and then your art is done!
LOL I know right? 3D clothing in particular is not very realistic. (insert Bethesda game joke here) If you're relying on that you're already in trouble most of the time. And this nonsense is even more silly because because the pretentious snobs keep ignoring COMPOSITION. It doesn't matter how good your mad art skills are if you can't compose the scene you won't bring it to life and it will just look flat and lifeless. No matter how good your technical skill is, no matter how "purist" your art is.
I feel like the people that say it's cheating have never tried It and just talk out of their ass...like everyone about anything on the internet I guess.
@@Wastelandman7000 when I went to school on 3d arts and 2d composition for concepting, this was an important factor when we try to come up with a model for 2d assistance, when we have to do clothing we do procederal animations of the clothing drifting in gravity to simulate weight, BUT what we do after is we get to editing the model, change the weights, add vertices locks to make it look more real or stylized, then when the animation is finished its good for tracing to print. when it comes to comics, this is great for teamworkers to help the drawer find their guidelines and perspectives. We usually dont have all the time in the world and this makes the work station faster.
thank you so much. i was so afraid of using 3d models and tracing over them because i felt like i was cheating and that i won't learn a thing from it. it was really frustrating and devastating for my mental health because i'm afraid people will say things as "you're not an artist" "you just trace over 3d models, cheater" something like that ToT but today, i decided to try it and realization slapped me in the face. i realized that you won't actually copy the whole thing because you also need to apply your art style to it and it's not as bad as i think. i'm crying from happiness because of realizing how pathetic i am for thinking that and that i won't really be stressed out from thinking about poses anymore. i wanted to be a great artist someday and using these advance tools makes me think that i will not be *that* great artist because i am not doing everything by hand :( reading all the comments also helped me have the courage to do it because all the analogy actually make sense. if using 3d model is cheating then so does layers, undo button, all the other buttons, and many more. i am really grateful that i clicked on your video. honestly, this solved like 70% of my stress and anxiety about art so thank you, thank you so much.
yeah. same people who were complaining about using 3d models are probably the same people complaining about ai art now. they dont realize that these are all just tools. and an artist using those tool will probably always make more interesting things than an average person just typing prompts for an AI
If that's considered cheating.... then we all cheated tracing letters to learn how to write. Laaawwl Those types of comments are what contributed to the discouragement to stop drawing 11 years ago (getting back into art only in recent years) and I hope those types of comments don't discourage anyone else anymore. This video is a huge encouragement! That I wish I had back then. Let no one make you feel bad for learning the way you can!!
A lot of artists always debate about what is cheating and what is not. Like, tracing, references etc while the experts are there keep on drawing stuff in their own way. Other experts didn't learn anatomy but already earning a lot. Other experts using different ways on making his/her speed increase by using everything the softwares have to give like photo manipulation, reference, 3D poses and now earning a lot. So, what's the point of the debate?
@@AiSakurai The debate about cheating comes from artists who FEEL cheated because they feel like anyone who uses these little 'hacks' to speed up their workflow is somehow not earning it. It's elitism, is what it is. Whereas, if you've ever actually tried to use these 3D models and the like yourself, as I have, you'll VERY quickly realize that they aren't worth squat if you aren't already a skilled artist. The cheating argument is bull because anyone who isn't already skilled enough will get little to no benefit from the usage of them. These hacks are meant to speed up the workflow of someone who already has the talent to do without them. The reality of working on art professionally is that there just simply isn't enough time.
@@MegaPieru3000 Well, for me, tracing this models will not help. This 3D models should be as another reference. In my case, I use this 3D models too but damn they are not as expressive as what my mind want to. So, I didn't stop in the 3D models. I also have pictures references, (even use gacha games etc) to create different views and references. Bdw, I already read and do things related to anatomy but it those things doesn't stuck in my memory. Things like data isn't my thing since my brain is wired to edit everything I learn. In other words, since anatomy is realistic, when I do it, will turn to stylized already. I even go to art school and when I draw from real life that's how things do to me. This example of mine means not everyone have the same way of learning things in art. Our brain have different wiring and we cannot just say everyone learn anatomy. Let each other grow from their own ways with guidance of like "Beware of making your character lifeless. Make sure it was expressive. If you can't learn anatomy, look at the mirror. " etc. We have lots of ways after all we are "creatives". Creatives aren't limited.
The 3D models seems like an evolution of the panic about artists using references. People don't understand they're just tools to optimize your workflow. Also, many forget that in the end: composition, color theory, controling values, character design, storytelling, stylization, etc are as important (if not even more, depending on who you ask) as anatomy and perspective, and no 3D model can teach you those principles.
It's quite literally creating your ideal reference image, which is invaluable when it comes to art. A lot of people can be scouring images for hours trying to find that perfect, pose, whereas these tools simply allow you to make them. Can't believe people would consider this as cheating XD
@@MegaPieru3000 Yes, I can, in fact and I can confirm its fun to just draw whatever, specially when you're looking for compositions or character designs. Assuming someone can't draw a human figure from the top of their head just because they use references is rude. Do you think using a 3D model or photo reference means that you'll be able to draw it perfectly? No, because you still need fundamentals, and guess what. People learn fundamentals of anatomy with real life references and gesture drawing. 3D models are just tools like many others, and of course they'll never replace knowledge but let's not antagonize them, please. Even the most professional artist in the world will use references at some point because you can't know everything in the world, and the way to learn something is to see it, study it and copy it.
By that same logic, using reference is also cheating. There is no cheating in art unless you are literally tracing over someone else's work and claiming it as your own. Heck, even tracing is good for practice. Its funny how people think that a 3d model will make them a pro artist in half a year, I bet they got a nice surprise 30 minutes later when they tried it xD.
@@MegaPieru3000 if you think people are mindlessly tracing over the 3d models you havent been paying attention. A lot of the time the 3d model never fits the style you want to draw so you have to adjust adjust adjust . The 3d model doesn't finish the drawing for you and usually doesn't have anatomy on it so drawing clothes without keeping that in mind will make it look weird. Besides it only shortens half the process of drawing a picture. The 3d models are meant to be traced on in csp otherwise people are better off looking at reference pictures because 3d models dont provide anything accurate, they just make it easier to visualize what is accurate and trace the accurate/complicated parts.
@@MegaPieru3000 you’re completely wrong. You need to learn to draw muscle definition, facial structure, nose and mouth, clothes, hair, clothes wrinkles, accessories, backgrounds, etc. For artists; especially webtoon artists and/or manga artists need to draw many many drawings in a single day find this very useful! Also finding reference is VERY difficult so 3D model is not “mindless” nor “effortless” maybe try for yourself to make a ‘mindless masterpiece’ if you think it’s that easy
Judging by what you say, you clearly havent understood the importance of tracing 3d model and just pushing your elitist purist artist agenda. Lemme explain to your closed minded brain the examples; 1) 3d models arent perfect, the knee, shoulder and elbow joints don't have collision physics so you as an artist is responsible to fix it or else it'll look weird and bad 2) some 3d bodies has some fixed ratios, again the artist must have knowledge how to adjust it and fix the anatomy, 3) Knowing Color theory and applying it is hard/harder sometimes artist struggles in this than the lineart of anatomy (3d fucking model doesnt provide colors) l, 4) 3d models just provide a boost start to save time (skipping the sketch and being efficient in time is crucial for an artist especially professionals) so stop commenting against it because you sound like a closed minded boomer stuck in your little bubble world.
YOU ARE STILL A VALID ARTIST IF YOU USE 3D MODELS FOR POSES. Thats how I started out until I eventually don't rely on it as much since I progressed as an artist. But if a pose is really tricky and you don't want to use a copyright image as a ref 3d models at least let you pose them they way you visualized! Idk why people get so mad over this. It's literally just another art tool. That was like when my dad (an abstract traditional artist/art elitist) told me digital art is not a real art thing because it's "cheating and anyone can do it" XD
@Letícia Lopes Leanardo said himself to have references. A lot of references. Its natural. Can someone really draw accurately something without reference? my my
@@MegaPieru3000 here it is again. Well, I only believe those like illustrator who proves their expertise (even with 20+ experience) and even admit that they cannot draw without reference. Lastly, if you can define what is the meaning art then we can continue this.
@@MegaPieru3000 Did I even say to use 3D models as fast shortcut? I say over and over again to treat it like another references. And after all, you cannot use 3D models without the knowledge of anatomy since it was base in anatomy. You will definitely be frustrated when you use 3D models without the knowledge of anatomy. (Which is quite obvious) Should this be really always be bring up?
I like how people call it "cheating" and completely ignore the reason why the 3D models are there in the first place. They aren't there just to take up processing power and look cool.
Even if you use the 3D models, in my opinion you still need to have knowledge of how anatomy works, clothing folds, lighting etc. Just because you use 3D models doesn't mean you instantly understand how to do everything else, it isn't that magical so people need to genuinely just relax and take a breath. I personally don't use them but I understand completely why other people would as it is their way of learning.
This! I tried to use the 3D models when I had basic anatomy knowledge and I still had a hard time figuring out what to draw and how and where. Now I've improved (I am nowhere near confident, but I've definitely improved) and the way I can use these models now is way more useful and makes stuff less frustrating.
This is exactly what I'm saying. People that use 3d models too frequently aren't gonna learn anything. They need to spread their wings and learn how to draw without tracing over a model.
@@sabersin7694 I think the models are very useful for beginners if they know how to use them. I do not think that people who have not studied anatomy aren't allowed to use the models or whatever. They can and it can definitely be helpful, but the models are not going to substitute learning anatomy; that's not what theyre meant for anyway.
@@sabersin7694 People using models are going to learn something. They are learning angles and perspective. So yeah people can use models if they want to. Its not going to hinder their skills.
It’s not cheating, i used a 3D model for my new profile picture. I needed a pose but couldn’t really think of one, so this really helped me and I’ve been drawing for 11 years now
It’s not cheating. He knows how to color and draw fully, it’s more like a fast way to move through, especially to webtoon artists. Cheating is only use if ur on a test and u have no knowledge on art and just use websites to do these types of things. Though overall, this is just a fast way to do stuff since remember it shortens ur time of waste when making webtoon/manga/comic digitally. Not fair tho for traditional artists that’s for sure, but laoovan is him. And he’s a very good artists, those blends. Can’t even do those 😔
Its not really unfair irl artists have lots of tools to do the same effect traditional art simply tends to be a lot more expensive than digital depending in the medium
To do anatomy look better when you draw you gotta trace them ((not actually trace just to trace them after that remember the anatomy you’ve draw you can repeatly do the same anatomy you’ve draw so you can remember the anatomy without tracing it))
Even Traditional artists have this advantage. Even though they’re molded from scratch, the artist of Dinotopia creates his own references to get a better understanding of where light will hit as well as taking photos of compositional shots. Its just as complex and time consuming as using 3d placeholders in digital art. Each artist has their own method and neither of them should be considered unfair or cheating.
One point I’d like to mention; when art becomes a source of income for artists, efficiency is key. 3D models are a great resource your program can provide that can help lessen how long you take on a piece. Especially if you have multiple poses to do. Keeping your work flow short and sweet is the name of the game.
Someone wants to be professional, but doesn't want to learn drawing anatomy? It doesn't work like that. Nothing against using these things as a reference, but a professional won't need to trace all the time, or he isn't a professional.
Nobody said anything about not learning to draw anatomy. Building out several rough sketches is almost certainly slower and tracing a figure will never get a good end product without the knowhow to polish it
@@mariasokolovska985 You still need to understand how clothing wraps around the body which requires you to know anatomy. You can see who knows anatomy and who doesn't when using a 3d model, your skills still shine through regardless. Professional artist use 3D models for speed purposes because most of them are on tight schedules. These models are made for artist, for people who know anatomy already and aren't looking to improve, but who are looking to meet a deadline.
To me, the 3D models are just a way for you to get that "perfect" reference. Sometimes you have a certain pose in mind and you can't take a picture of yourself and you spent hooooours looking for a reference picture just to end up with a "not quite there" angle. It's totally like you said, all the hard work and years of practice to make the final drawing to look cool, to understand what it's wrong is still there! About the cheating argument... Invalidate people's work is just wrong.
MODELS ARE PERFECTLY FINE TO USE!!! Whether character or environmental models. Professional company's like Disney use them! They really help give you a new perspective and can really help your art become really eye catching. Anyone who says its, "cheating", remember you still have to draw facial features, clothing, hair, ect. The only time you can call an artist a cheater is when they are taking other peoples art and saying its their own. Amazing vid Laovaan!!! Thanks for the tutorial!!! :)
They say “it’s not cheating if you don’t get caught”. But in my book, “it’s not cheating if it’s technically not illegal”. I use 3D models myself, and I’ve been seeing dozens of works made by professionals that use them. They are helpful, and can be just another tool for our Arsenal. We can still keep our artist integrity since these are not entirely exclusive, they’re open for everyone, so in the rule of populism that means they’re perfectly fine. Of course, not everyone has to use then. The overall factor, is that it’s a choice. An entirely personal decision, nothing more and nothing less.
As someone who draws out of sheer hobby and not to care much about anatomical improvement I actually used to draw over 3D models, now I realise it’s probably the right thing if I did
@@jackqueslack2339right thing, maybe, maybe not. That’s entirely up to you. It’s not the wrong thing, so long as the steps you take don’t hurt people. Overall, it’s your choice.
A lot of people say that those who scream "cheater" didn't draw a single thing. I think it's on the contrary, it's the people who have spend time and money to learn how to draw "traditionally". They see these amazing tools, and what they REALLY feel is just envy and resentment. So they invent these justifications for themselves like "using X is cheating", to calm themselves down that no, they didn't waste their life and savings on art school, learning on how to anatomy the old-fashioned way.
I think it’s a mix of people who don’t draw and art elitist, art isn’t hard that’s just the truth of it. it just takes time to learn and master like every other skill but most people give on a skills if they don’t feel instant gratification and the people who are the best at it have the drive that others simply don’t. So I think a lot of people who don’t draw out artist on this mountain then when they hear an artist uses a reference or a model that reality is shattered so they resort to attempting to “take back the art world from these fakes!” People who call it just cheating most likely don’t draw, people who bring up their x amount of experience their blood sweat and tears are most likely elitist
Oh yeah it's definitely both. People love to be better than others. "You can't trace anything ever, you can't use pictures for reference, you can't take things from others' art styles, you can't-" no matter what you do people will come up with something wrong with it. No idea why that's a thing, but alas. Best we can do in these cases I feel is just people watch, learn from any good points they make, maybe explain your side and reasons, and just see what happens. Are they open minded but learnt from the wrong people? Great, you can help eachother out. Are they stubborn and arrogant? It's not worth your time.
@@MegaPieru3000 That's what I've been thinking the whole time when I read the comment section. You see as an artist myself, I think references and 3d models are technically the same. It's just how people use them. Reference can be used in Digi and traditional artworks, while 3d models are used only in digital.
People are just mad that art is much more accessible now and they want to feel better by doing absolutely everything from scratch - which most of the times doesn't even look good. Reference and 3D poses are important and very helpful with the art process and teach a lot of things. Without references and 3D models, I wouldn't have improved as much as I have for the past years and that's a fact. I bet the hateful comments came from people with no art skills whatsoever. I encourage everyone to use 3D models and not be ashamed of it - most professionals are doing it. EDIT, because it seems I'm not clear enough: I'm not supporting tracing art, tracing is WRONG and you'll never learn anatomy with it. You have to first learn to draw bodies by using 3d models and photos BESIDE the drawing as a reference, not trace over it, to really understand the proportions. I'm talking about people that can draw bodies well already. Also the video itself said that tracing 3d models does nothing, because they don't look good. You need to draw over these lines and insert your understanding of anatomy to make it look good.
you are right, since the beginning of time artist have referenced models, but the point is that once you learn to draw well, you need your references less and less since is faster to sketch on your own than creating poses, moreover would be better to not trace directly over it, but side by side so you train your eyes, but obiovusly if you are in a rush tracing is faster
It's not MORE accessible. It's a accessible as it has always been. And artists who only trace but don't understand anatomy form shape language value study light studie perspective etc will be found out anyways. You should ALWAYS use reference. But using reference properly is NOT tracing! Unless you are trying to learn and then you shouldn't be trying to sell that.
As someone who work in the animation industry, shortcuts as ALWAYS in demand as long it doesn't sacrifice appeal and principles. I heard that artists use templates on their own work everyday and they know how to have their own freedom instead of seeing it as a fail safe. An artist can always tell what is traced by looking at the flow of the drawing. Trace focuses on safe and ridged drawing while an inspired pose has elements from the original content but has freedom that focuses on flow and energy. Life drawing trains you to copy models but focus on line of action and flow.
It blows my mind when they call any aspect of digital art "cheating" or "too easy", like tf? If it's so easy I want you to do what I do! Let me have my digital tools and shoo! XD
yes but this is directly tracing it, when i was in art college we was taught to draw from reference, but not directly trace it as it leads to a better more original art piece, as well as learning how to draw said thing you are drawing.
@@shadesoina its okay to trace lmao as long as u don't take it as your own or claim that u didn't trace. tracing helps with analyzing silhouette and anatomy
@@shadesoina you can also directly trace it. Just take a pic of the pose the doll is in and paste it into the canvas on a digital art program and boom you can trace it.
as a person who trace 3D models at first it gave me intrusive thoughts about tracing because i saw alot of opinions about it and mostly it says that it will not help you improve as an artist or simply say it's cheating but as i learn that it does not matter and the important thing is to use a helpful efficient art tool and ways that can help you because many of us is struggling and it's not that bad to make your life a lot more easier.(◍•ᴗ•◍)❤
@@MegaPieru3000 oh hi!! yes that's true!! i just trace the body since im very bad at anatomy. im pretty much decent at it rn and gladly i dont use 3d models anymore bc i gotta step up my game somehow lol but gotta admit that 3D models was one of the tools that help me improve!!^^^
Gantz was created entirely with 3D models, and it's one of the most successful mangas out there. So long as you know anatomy and can turn stiff models into fleshy meatbags, you're golden.
I've actually used 3d models in my beginning to learn about anatomy an the distortion of the "camera" and now I can draw without this, it really was helpful
csp is made with comics in mind, and if you're pumping out comics there are hundreds on panels that are only going to be looked at for a few seconds at most... let people have the shortcut! or even if you aren't doing a comic! i use them as references and my style is WAY too cartoony and distorted to even try to trace them but damn is it nice to look at a good hand reference lol
THANK you for pointing this out, so many comments are talking past each other. Clipstudio used to be called Mangastudio and when you have to pump out 20 pages of manga every week for your JOB you gotta use as many "power tools" as possible. That's why they're in the software and if people find other non-professional uses for them that's awesome too actually.
Yeah, I’ve felt that I was always cheating by using models but then I realized that I’m not tracing nor am I straight up being lazy. It still takes hard work and understanding of what looks right and what doesn’t to make a model reference look good.
I'm using them a lot when I have to draw something. It really helps me with the realistic proportions and poses, also learning where I can do a certain movement that i'll need or how will the shadow hit the body and lothes. Using them is not bad at all. At the end it's nothing more than using a reference that you can edit in real time to help you
I tried to use 3d model before when I was still starting, ngl it's actually pretty hard, the perspective was wrong & everything felt wrong with it. I tried to use shape while using the 3d model as a reference, still didn't help much ah. If only this video exist back then 😭 Very helpful! Thank you so much ❤️
I'm a beginner artist. I've been trying to avoid using 3d models because of the fear of somebody calling me a "cheater" Thanks for reassuring me that it's not cheating champ!
Don't let anyone deter you. There is no such thing as 'cheating' in art. If you were trying to chop down a tree with your forehead, and someone offered you an axe, you'd be an idiot to stomp your feet and refuse the axe because it's apparently 'cheating'.
Using technology is not cheating, imagine if we tell architect to stop using 3D program(s) to design their work and label it as cheating, that's just absurdly stupid. Why the heck we come back to the less efficient way if there are many technologies which can saves our time and effort?
Imagine these people learning that art hacks exist since the beginning of art... I mean, learning anatomy is important and space vision too, but our time and knowing how to use references are valuable too! Since I began to use 3D models in my art, specially for fantasy stuff, I feel less stuck. I mean, I have depression and all and couldn't get out of bed for nothing, not even for drawing, which is something I love to do because I can't feel satisfied with my art...... if someone told me to stop using my references I would go absolutely apeshit.
Dude I swear I was about to start using these types of models, but I was skeptichal if I should cause of the stiff poses and the whole cheating debate. But then you uploaded this video! You saved me a lot of headache, your timing couldnt be more perfect I will use them carefully!
@@why9909 honestly, it was confusing for me in the beginning because I didn’t know how to use it, but then I saw another video where laovaan talked about his comic that he published and he mentioned using 3D models. So from there i practiced clicking on a certain limb and seeing how far it could move. And it became more easier for me from there.
The cheating is such a weird idea to me. Art is about the expression and the intent. Craft is about the skill. Just because you are using a tool doesn’t mean that you are less of an artist. That would be like saying you have to write your own art program instead of using someone else’s because that would be cheating and you can’t use a programming language someone someone else has come up with either. Better get used to writing ones and zeros if you want to make a web comic with a in-depth and intriguing story. Personally I am willing and eager to (cheat) in every single possible way that would get me closer to the result that I am going for. On the other hand there is a noticeable different affect when you use a different tool. For my art I use an AI to do the majority of the shading so that I can create things faster. It will never look as good as when I sit down and methodically plan where all of the shadows are but it’s still Art. I paid for the program and I regularly credit the programmers to try to help with their Business. Back in the days when people had to write their own programming languages to make the tools to make the programs it was objectively better. You could fit entire games on floppy disks which takes up about as much room as an audio file. If people still did that today then we would not need super computers to run video games but imagine how much time it would take to go back to the ones and zeros for every single effect. Something like Skyrim would be impossible. I don’t care that it would be an objectively better experience with very little bugs and no lag because it would never even exist. In the end a computer can’t do anything without being directed by an artist.
@@SharkWitchMeruna Unfortunately I do not. Making tutorial videos is a lot more challenging than you would think. Especially when you are still learning the medium. Artis who can show the journey and document it in a entertaining way are immensely talented performers in my opinion. I am currently working on a web comic script. When I get to the point in the process where I actually start making it I will be documenting the journey and posting it to CZcams as a way to advertise myself. I don’t for see actually getting to that point for probably about a year. Would you like me to just explain the process right here?
When I was first starting out with digital art, all I used was Autodesk Sketchbook, Deviantart, and my inspirations artwork. I would spend hours tracing over their artwork and make my own characters with it. Of course, I wouldn't post this artwork, it was only for me. It helped me learn how my inspirations made their styles, how they exaggerated anatomy, and just overall how they draw. Around 6 years later, I still think tracing, in moderation, is an helpful and sometimes essential skill or practice that artists should try.
3d models aren't cheating, it's getting smart. You should still learn the basics because the basics give you a foundation to stand on. When you understand that part you know about the perspective and ratio of being able to use these models and putting them in a realistic type space. Don't hate on someone for getting clever. Congrats, now you can get clever too.
Why do people think you can cheat in art by using easier methods? As an artist, your customer isn't your math teacher who is interested in the correct process, he is interested in results. Even if art was super easy with 3d models, why should i intentionally use a harder method when there is an easy one?
Some of the people who're mad were the ones who watched every single CZcams video and read every single book about anatomy just to... draw a body. In short they went through hell so they EXPECT that others experience the same hell as well. That mindset is just really toxic, ugly, and petty though.
@@MegaPieru3000 Babe I'm referring to people who are bullying others for the fact that they trace over models. I'm not downplaying their efforts in actually learning anatomy, but if they are trying to bring down people who are choosing the much easier way, then it IS petty and toxic. That's their way, so why should you hate on people who enjoy tracing over models instead?
@@MegaPieru3000 And what's wrong with that? Just because you find something enjoyable doesn't mean everyone else finds it enjoyable as well. Let them be. Let them be the judge of their own creation. It's them who will see what's wrong with their work in the future, and it's them to decide.
The traditional is in my opinion a little more tricky to use since you "convert" a 3D object into 2D, meaning paper. Your monitor (not talkimg bout curved ones and something like this) are always flat so you more or less got it 2D already and it is a little easier to work with. I mean with a regular mannequin if you havent worked too much with it, the slightest displacent caness up your art but thats more of a personal thing
I believe using these is not bad at all, everyone has their own way of learning and improving, for me I just heard of 3d models today after a year of doing art, and I can see myself already understanding proportions and perspective more, because of the 3d image that I have in my mind, teaching me to think in 3D for my illustrations and not 2D. :) Good luck everyone with your art journey, trust your feeling and the process!
To me it feels like an in built feature of those wooden dolls you can often see in someone's art studio. Just easy to have, and great reference materials. Doesn't mean you're immediately great at sketching or don't know how to draw. Since that's an entirely different beast. You simply have a now digital version of how a pose could look like. Wow.
@@MegaPieru3000 Not necessarily. Over time you learn to draw said poses without needing to draw over them. Tracing images does help understand the build of the body.
@@MegaPieru3000 You never seen those wooden modelling statues that are found in about every single art studio? It's easy reference material. Doesn't mean you never studied anatomy. It just helps.
@@MegaPieru3000 The 3D model is simply a digital version of those. It helps and makes it easier but doesn't discredit the user. If you think you can do better, or know you can do better. Show it.
as an artist myself, a shortcut is a shortcut, but cheating is a whole nother race. Using models, tracing over them, you're still learning, youre still growing. Those who call it cheating obviously called good gamers hackers/aimbots lmao.
As a beginner artist trying to improve my art, I started to use the models at first because I struggled with positioning and proportions. I started to feel guilty and felt like I was cheating when I was getting positive comments on my arts because I used a model to help me. My sister told me then it was a tool so it's OK to use the models as long as your own art in the end that gets to your end results. And then I found the first video laovaan made on this and it encouraged me, I slowly improved and I still am. I barely use the models now unless it's a really complicated pose. These videos really do give a boost of encouragement though. Thank you Laovaan for making this! It really helps!
Cheating? Pros need every help they can get to work fast. It's the amateurs and philosophers who usually complain about this approach, not the serious artists. Totally on board with the comparison of the calculator always used by serious mathematicians and scientists, but disallowed only for elementary students. Keep these awesome videos coming!
you are my hero! I started using 3d models 1 or 2 years ago and ever since then I'm so scared to get called a cheater. Next time, I point them to this video!
I don't consider using 3D models cheating but y'know, that one scene on Titanic where Jack drew Rose is different. Using 3D models in digital art is like putting canvas on top of your reference. It is still tracing. What Jack did is he copied the model by predicting the correct size and positions of each parts based on his perception. It's different.
@@thatquietkid144 it is certainly different on the process, but in the end it is the same principle. to be based on what one sees to either reproduce or create from this pose ^^
@@icaonix I agree, it is still the same in the end. I get your point but like what you said, they have different process. That would only mean they're still different. The difference is that, I don't want to repeat it but (I already mentioned it on my previous comment) What Jack did and those students in art school with models for reference, they use a certain skill and time to copy the reference. They start from a blank canvas, they practice for hand precision, they improve their skills . Meanwhile, you start with 3D models picture in digital art, you start with a reference behind your canvas. All you need to do is trace the shapes, body parts then add more details. That is why, I understand some people saying tracing 3D models for art is cheating. But don't get me wrong, I am not against it. I've used 3D models before for my animation and it is really time saving xD. #lifehax
It boggles my mind that people make these comments. I remember people were saying that using a digital art program was cheating. That using a graphic tablet was cheating. That using a reference is cheating and I find more people have this misconception with artist using anything as a reference, and I think that what those comments spawn from. Because really, 3D modeling, at least to me, is another kind of reference. It's just a tool to help achieve what you want. And I've used the 3D modeling on Clip Studio a handful of times and I have to say, it is a pain to use. I wouldn't use it all the time because of the time spent adjusting. The only time I've used one is for simple things because I don't like moving the models too much because it is easy to mess up. Though usually, I tend to start with a sketch and then use a 3D model. It just helps me adjust the model and see what I'm doing clearer. It's also helpful for thing where I don't have/can't find a good reference. Or the reference I'm using isn't helpful because it is only 2D, and I want to see the same pose at a different angle.
Even without tracing the models, it's a great way to learn poses. Being able to rotate it and understand where everything goes even when it's not in sight is extremely helpful.
I've gotten to where I now use 3D models for my characters, they have helped me quite a bit with some of my anatomy (especially hands because I struggled a lot with drawing them in the past). Sometimes, I've debated with myself on wether or not it is cheating, but I do draw my own characters over them, I never trace anything. Sometimes, I do have a little bit of difficulty adjusting them to what I imagine in my head what the drawing would look like, but it still nice.
Musicians nowadays record one part then copy and paste to other sections of the song, but no one complains because all that matters is that the final product sounds good. It’s the same with this. It’s just a tool used to create a brilliant final piece that everyone loves. Very few people see a piece and sit there thinking about how it was created. They just think, wow that’s great. And that’s what matters.
I only recently got into digital art, and someone legit said to me "Oh, so you've become lazy now?" Like?? Digital art does have pros over traditional, but that doesn't mean it isnt still difficult.
@@JasonEatsCrowbar i only get to do digital art at school, and its as difficult as traditional is. sure digital has many pros, but yes, it still doesnt change the fact that theres still work to be put into it
It's easy guys, is just 3 simple steps!! How to draw: Step 1. Get your 3d models Step 2. Sketch over them Step 3. Add details Profit Source: Some art tutorial I found, idk
I guess they don't know that animes they watching is literally traced with cgi or model they use nowadays.u know what I mean. That's why anime look more cute or just much better at every angle.
What the heck? What do you expect? You want them to draw without something like that? Lol hahaha don't make me laugh...making anime is different lol...it's animation...if they don't use, it will take them months or years to finish one episode haha...but when your just going to draw and not making animation...you don't have to use models....you will never learn by tracing...not because it's unfair 4 other it's just because you will never learn by that..
It's such a silly argument. Even in traditional art, many artists will pose a mannequin or reference an image of the exact pose they want. This is really just the digital art equivalent.
Artists have always used 3D models (either real life or out of wood) for poses! Not using them is a sign of being an ignorant beginner, or of stupidly refusing to use even the most basic tools. Might as well say using a pencil, measurements, or a grid is cheating and that real artists draw by squeezing their own blood onto the canvas instead.
@@zacdrawing7677 no but they do use 3D models as reference just as we digital artists do. They can’t draw over the models like digital artists can duh, that’s why they don’t so they reference it the best we can. Traditional and digital aren’t the same so of course there’s going to be some differences and how each side does a certain thing. At the end of the day it’s still pretty much the same thing. Digital artists just have a bit more flexibility because it’s digital bro
@@zacdrawing7677 ahh this is digital painting by the way, traditional using all traditional method, if it was possible to draw over a model like digital, no one will neglect to do so, digital painting even in professional concept artist, they all use what make them work faster, there’s no rules, what’s matter is the end result! Even animation require tracing real life human movements.
@@zacdrawing7677 Actually traditional artist have traced over models. Ever heard of rotoscoping in animation. Animators used to trace over videos of real people to get some motions right.
As somebody who more recently got into drawing again: For me, those models helped me get over the initial fear of bad proportions and positioning. I always had the "oh I'll never get that right." Feeling. I saw too many mistakes in my drawings, especially compared to the role models and professionals I saw and aspire to, and it kept me down and from trying stuff. When seeing that tool, it let me draw again, with less fear. And as I grow more bold, I start to rely on them less now, since they are as mentioned, not perfect, and don't include faces, details, etc. And as I keep looking up more tutorials on how to do this and that, I learn more from other artists and anatomy studies etc. But they helped me overcome that fear barrier, (still) help me in learning body proportions and dimensions and let me experiment. And most importantly: Made me draw again.
Using 3D models is literally no different than using those wooden art dummies for poses and reference (ok well using 3d models is much better because you can do more but you get the point), so I don’t understand people who say “it’s cheating”
you can get it on sale at 50% off on March, June, September, November i think. Which is what i did. and don`t pirate it if you value your privacy and health of your PC
Clip Studio’s tools, ESPECIALLY the 3D models help me when I can’t find just the right reference for heavy perspective based drawings. If you think it’s cheating, cool bro. Don’t follow me, I don’t want your pessimism anyway 🤣 Oh and just an edit: if you don’t like how Laovaan uses CSP’s 3D models...then you might need to start researching digital mangaka so you can hound them on how they’re not real artists, too. 🙄
Ha! When the result is that great, this can't be considered cheating, tracing or whatever people say You are a great artist. Don't let people make you feel bad for using 3D models
I was gonna make a "joke" comment, but lost the energy. Summary: Tools are tools. If you have them, use them. Only beginners or people who dont know art would call this cheating. Some people think that digital art is cheating, as well. Would I need to say anything more on that? This argument is like saying not going free hand and using rulers for straight lines, or tracing pictures you took of yourself and your friends is cheating.
Exactly, this is the mindset of children that think drawing is a "game", and all they do is sketch the same little thing in the exact same wrong way every day. Thats why these people never improve, they never use refferences, cause its "cheating", they never look at other artists, cause its "cheating", therefore they just stay at the same low level, without even noticing their own mistakes
@@MegaPieru3000 you mean, "you people who make use of references"? Do you know one of the most remarkable reasons why hands are hard to draw? It is because we all constantly look at hands (our own hands) and perpetually see detail, either unconsciously or consciously. As a consequence, when we see hands and a "tiny" thing isn't right, we just "know", we collectively feel it. Also, on your argument of "knowing how things look like" and "memorization", the latter is quite the amount of work for the benefits you get. Meanwhile, about the former...it has been scientifically demonstrated that we OVERestimate our understanding of how physics in action works/looks like. In other words: the human brain aint good for RTX.
For those who dont know tracing actually does help you improve your drawing skills. I really wish as a kid I had done so, it would have helped me a lot, however at the time I had thought tracing was cheating. But no it's really helpful
I don't even understand why we consider these news tools as cheating. If you want to be a full time artist or work in the game industry, you HAD to work quickly. They don't care what tool you are using as long as the work is done. The old Renaissance paintings are behind us guys... You had to do things fast
Ngl the asset section is the biggest "cheat". I love it. And bless the community for sharing their great tools. Sometimes I'm not even drawing at all, but just testing out new brushes and gradients😅😅 it's just alot of fun
I never even considered using 3D models, will definitely try it now! I've given up with so many drawings that i wanted to use fancy perspectives with, I'll be able to pick them up again
Thanks again to my brother who did the intro with me :D He is also an artist if you want to check him out here is his instagram: instagram.com/jasdavi92/
You both are really adorable and great artists. Keep up the great work!
And i was wondering, why your bro doesn't make youtube videos anymore or at least twitch streams. Clicked on the link to his instagram. Ooooh boy, now i see why. Now the day has finally come that i can't avoid creating an insta account, cause i like his stuff and want to follow him. Great.
PS: he doesn't have a deviantart account, does he?
that. was. unexpected... it`s not my stuff but it`s drawn very good
I almost thought your brother was your boyfriend for a hot minute. Glad I was wrong.
I thought you were doing both roles... lol
Oh no.
He's multiplying.
May god help us all.
I keep forgetting that they're identical twins lmao
Hello To Another geniuse
Macht doch bald nochmal ein koop video
You might want to dye your hair blue to team up with your brother 😂
😂😂😂
I love how he just casually reads the upset people's comments😂😂😂
my favorite part of the video
Seriously. What a king 😂
I know 😂😂 the shade 😂
Epic
Exactly 🤣🤣🤣
I loooooove the calculator example. As an engineering student we use the calculator to check if 2+2 is 4 but no calculator will ever tell you how to find the line integral of a scalar field. The same happens with drawing and 3D models. No 3D model will ever tell me how to succesfully create a character or how to paint correctly.
That's the difference between artists and engineers. We don't care about the process as long as it is efficent and the final product is good enough (not excellent but decent lol)
Yes, I like travelling every day on good enough bridges lol
@@PhoenixBaby96 your point is ?
@@huynguyenmanh5271 She's an engineering student. Engineers work out calculations and problems, and those calculations go into real world things. Like bridges.
@@PhoenixBaby96 they are good enough for you to travel on don't worry
We weren’t allowed to use calculators on tests in my college calc class and it was painful to have to do basic math by hand.
If 3D is cheating let's all just stop using layers, liquify or any selection tools as it is not fair to traditional artists. Welcome to the professional art world kids.
Yep, its like someone saying a carpenter is cheating if they use a circular saw rather than a hand saw. Its the results that count. And if you can save time and expense by using a "power tool" then you'll get more done with less effort. Its simply more efficient.
or a using a ruler on paper to make a straight line is cheating LMAO
By some peoples logic the people who did the rotoscope animation for those Disney classics aren't real animators because that's just frame by frame tracing😂
But it's also important how it's rendered out. Anyone can trace but experts and even a novice know how to do line wight, opacity, color pallet, etc.
Every single art tool would be considered cheating compared to the option of not using it.
Erasers are considered cheating by people who dont use it/cant use it cause they do painting in traditional
Digital is considered cheating as a whole by many traditional artists for the ability to infinitely alter or duplicate a piece without physical limits
Fuck, even trad artists who could afford better quality PAPER to color in are sometimes called cheaters by those who cant afford it cause the colors look prettier on them.
I say, as long as you're the one using the tools and creating, rather than relying on a fucking AI to do literally everything, using any tool is not cheating.
Bro has got a point🤝🏻
I don't even draw but I also think it's absurd that people think it's "cheating"
Agreed. I'm only just getting into digital art after 3+ years of drawing, and I can't wait to use 3d models as reference to make sure I get the proportions right and equal.
People who criticize artists for using reference models to produce art faster and more accurately have obviously never seriously gotten into drawing.
Rule of thumb: Use reference of some kind WHENEVER. YOU. CAN.
.
.
Also _insert generic "You again lmao" comment_
It took you some time to get here XD
absolute based take from the man himself
You again omfg how
Is anyone going to talk about when he's coming back?
I don’t feel guilt when it comes to 3D models. I will use the assets the program gives me. I PAID FOR THE PROGRAM.
DAMN RIGHT! Use those models, if clip studio put them in there that means they want you to use them to help you out.
FACTS
TRUU
Before being proud of yourself, you must first admit that your skills are imperfect. You must admit that without your program, your art would look not nearly as good as the kind you make with your program. If you're seriously proud about having imperfect skills, then admit to it.
@@sabersin7694 i like your comment and i agree
Everyone: he's cheating
Me: That's so smart
get out
@@K3Dvrk take your own advice.
Yeah it is
have the
the homestucks-
have they multiplied?
@@helpilostmybeanie1868 we re all homestuck
I'll never understand why people get upset about artists using 3D models. Unless you're an absolute elitist, I would presume we all look at artwork to appreciate its beauty or message, and we read comics to enjoy the story. We consume these media for the end product, not the skill or the process used to make them. So long as the process doesn't involve anything that hurts anyone else (ex. plagiarism, tracing other people's art) and the end product is enjoyable, that artist has put something beautiful out into the world that wasn't there before, and that's what matters.
Anyway, lovely video, as always! ❤ Thanks so much for addressing this issue.
using models genuinly make me question whether or not im a real artist and whether or not using them will ruin me and my creations
well said !
Doesn’t matter cause you still have to draw
*the other hand*
*the other leg*
*the dreadful other eye* (personally most hated)
*the hair details*
@@TinZzzzE the eyes are hard to make identical but you can copy one eye reverse it and change it's orientation though using 3d models in my opinion is limiting so ill just sketch them myself
well said! I never really thought about it like that haha
Technology: here, there's this powerful tool that is affordable to anyone and will help you all be more efficient. Of course, only if you want to use it. You can draw however you prefer! :D
Artist community: HOW DARE YOU!?!? drawing should be hard and make you suffer, if not you're obviously doing it WRONG
In the end, technology makes things easier for us. When things get easier, it requires less work. When there's less work required, then there's less strength. When there's less strength, there comes weakness.
That's the thing with the privilege of technology.
@@sabersin7694 balls
@@sabersin7694 L
@@ghost4439 r/murderedbywords
@@ghost4439 You see here's the funny thing. Despite all the points you made, they still haven't disproven my claim. Let's face it, our technology is practically killing this world, and if cars, escalators, and construction equipment never existed, you wouldn't be defending them. And you know what the scary part is? Our technology will never stop evolving, meaning life's just gonna become more and more easier until even the little things that feel like a breeze to us turn into hell for the people in the future.
It's not like I'm saying we should abandon all of our technology though. We've already gone so far, there's no going back.
Back then, people never had all of this technology, so they had to suffer more. The more they suffered, the stronger they became. People back then probably had a stronger will power than us.
And you know what's funny? Despite everything you said, you didn't make any effort to disprove my original claim. That technology is making us weaker. All you did was defend technology. And you know what my original point was? That using 3d models is cheating. When you use 3d models in art, you're making your job easier. Art is a skill, and skill can only be obtained through hard work. It's not really impressive if you use a tool that makes things easier for you. I mean, think about it. You expect your work to be admired if anyone could easily replicate it? For some odd reason that never comes to mind doesn't it?
"Does the simple use of a calculator make the average student suddenly a world renowned mathematician?" sent me XD What a great example. Just bc you use a calculator doesn't mean you're good at math. If you don't understand the basics and the principles, then using a calculator doesn't mean anything. You could use the calculator and still come up with the wrong answer. It's the same for drawing. Sure the 3-D model makes it look easy, but you also have to take into account that 3-D models can break or crease oddly and then that's where your knowledge of anatomical structure comes into play. A 3-D model also doesn't show the muscle or bone structures which means you'll need to either rely on a *reference photo* or your own knowledge of the human body. And unless you're planning on drawing all your characters with no faces, bald, and naked, you need to know how to draw facial features, hair, and clothing, which is also something you either need experience or reference photos to create. The fact that people think it's easy to just trace over a 3-D model and have it instantly look good infuriates me. If it was that easy, then you go do it. Let me know how it works out for you.
I also loved the calculator example. As an example in my class half of the persons are failing, even thought we always use calculator. But that's because they don't know how to use it. At our math exams they evaluate more if you can correctly pass the x than if you can add all the x and numbers. Because the calculator can't pass x, that's the important part. The 3D models are more eficient and fast if it's a complicated drawing, still you won't get a masterpiece with bare 3D models, because anatomy is only a component of drawing, not the base.
THAT CALCULATOR EXAMPLE WAS BRILLIANT THANK YOU IM SO GONNA USE THAT FROM NOW ON!
Yep, you still have to know how to compose the scene to make it visually interesting. And no program can substitute for that.
THIS COMMENT
Using a calculator means you need to know what are you doing with said calculator.
2+2 is easy but try to use that with arithmetic expressions.
People who proudly proclaim they don't use art references make me sad and frankly confuse me. The thing about art is we're incapable of creating something 100% from imagination. EVERYTHING is based on something in the 'real' world, and it's just a matter of how well you remember it. I recall a conversation with my psychology major friend who was talking about diminishing returns with memory and how every single time your brain accesses a particular memory it slightly modifies it. Meaning every time you remember the same thing it's a little less accurate than it was the last time. Take a moment to think about how poorly that can affect things you draw.
This is exactly why you *should* use references and things like 3D models, etc. Not only use them but *regularly* use them.
This, all of this! And so many people will say "3d models wont substitute learning" like its some huge revelation. We know that! And we examine actual anatomy and real life versions of poses before or even in conjunction with using 3d models. The models are simply a helpful tool like...?! I genuinely don't understand why elitists believe that people who use 3d models only ever, and only will ever, use 3d models.
Precisely!
@@bluebay1031 people are dumb and I think these people who said “cheating” consider as not experienced artist well you can improve by drawing but not the anatomy human body
> Take a moment to think about how poorly that can affect things you draw.
Or how it can help you with your concepts, actually. Re-re-re-remembering helps to "purify" and mutate a concept or a design. Draw from memory a rough, then bring in the refs for details and fixing up the errors.
@Minecraftkid_ well he already remembers anatomy we people can do anatomy in mind it just needs to be improved he's dumber than i am
Love how they only bash on digital artists when traditional artists have their own models too made for them. I use both traditional and digital and I use the models for both. Literally see no reason why this is still a debate
Everything is cheating now 💀, using reference, using 3D models, using somebody else’s brushes etc
@@kpopandtea6864 Honestly, nobody can trust leave it be and just admire the work that was still made. Instead they just wanna start arguments over all of this
@@kpopandtea6864 no way people are saying using brushes that people literally put out for use is cheating 💀
@@kpopandtea6864 it's learning process, not cheating
What? When did we have make our own models to trace?
I'm dead because the amount of times I've caught myself making the models 'jiggle' absentmindedly is ridiculous but I'm so happy I'm not the only one 😂😂
at 0:02?
jiggling the model is hot
I'm guilty too. This should be advertised as a feature
Yeah making them do the gangnam style was fun
This prime example of work smarter and not harder. There is professional storyboarder on youtube that draws on top of reference and turns around storyboards very quickly
its so stupid how people think that using 3d models is bad and dosent make you an artist.
An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity.
Is that second paragraph a quote?
It's like not using a ruler to draw a straight line. Also, I feel like it helps beginners (like me) calibrate the eyes because what we see close up while drawing looks different from what you see zoomed out (actual). You actually learn to draw poses faster because your eyes become trained faster at how it should look in your perspective while drawing.
^ Thisssss
+ fastens the process because I don't usually find the right references for poses quickly
Instead of googling hours and hours the very specific poses I just use the close ones + 3d models + anatomy images etc and honestly I learn faster this way
funny aint it i tried so hard and never got so,, in the end i never improve. its like doing weights and never gaining. its like i work twice as hard as anyone. but its for not. i need a pros judgement/critique on my art vid..
I think its true
I especially like it for perspective work. Its a lot less visually cluttered than perspective grids.
Here's the thing: Sometimes adjusting 3D Models is more time consuming than drawing one. So no, it's not cheating lol. I've tried doing it both ways and the other one is not easier than the other, 3d models simply gets your proportions and angles better.
Ok, try not to use 3d models.
@@Weath13 They already said they do both 🤦
@@Weath13 Have you read what he said?
@@Weath13 If you read a book then you might actually learn something think! Weath13 think!
@@Weath13 okay! Then how about you try!
Yet another case of people bashing accessibility tools. Using 3D models as a guide for poses and composition is a fantastic way for artists to reach into ideas previously unreachable. I personally have a very hard time thinking in 3D spaces, and have very little spatial awareness, so having some "dolls" to pose and take reference from is crucial to being able to draw scenes that aren't just the classic head-and-shoulders-3/4-view portraits for me. The dolls are just the bones of the characters anyway, you still need to skin, clothe, and style them, and add expressions, effects, backgrounds, etc. The people who accuse artists of cheating for using the tools they have available to them probably can't even draw good stick figures anyway, or are just bitter about not having these tools themselves during their own formative years.
people like that tend to think that you use the model and somehow the whole illustration will finish itself magically on its own... they don't even realize that posing the wooden dolls "like the old masters" is basically the same, you just carry over what you see, not work over what you see... sometimes they don't even use any reference at all and tend be like "if i used it, it would be too easy" all the while their stuff still looks like from the third grade and they have no understanding of basics whatsoever .-.
Same, I have severe aphantasia and can't imagine anything voluntarily in my head. I even have a hard time with references because I forget what I saw as I transition my eyes from the image to the canvas. I also have really bad ADHD and neuropathy which doesn't help at all. For years I drew characters from scratch and it would take me over 10 hours just to have a basic pose that look somewhat decent. This only made the process of drawing incredibly frustrating and unenjoyable... And I don't see the point of me doing art if I can't enjoy the process. I have been using 3d models for the past few years and it's helped to bring back the fun of making illustrations, even though it still takes me quite a bit of time and effort due to my personal challenges.
@@linn4511 BIG same 🤝
@Paige Loren not really you don't HAVE to trace over the models you can simply place the model to the side and draw what you see. You could take a picture of your irl 3d model trace it. Thats what people with light boxes do
@@superchickgirl23 I think what they mean is that the method of tracing over them is heavy referencing, and you won’t learn as much compared to if you do ‘normal referencing’ (having it to the side to look at as a guideline). also using this, your art won’t look good unless you already have a good understanding of anatomy, so it doesn’t help that much.
It's crazy coming into the visual arts from a musician background. People celebrate music being exponentially easier to make every year, but art being more accessible to make is bad? Its not like you arent making creative decisions constantly while using the 3d assets. Great vid.
This helped with my confidence. Awhile back I had someone tell me I wasn't really drawing for using these and it honestly made me not want to draw all that much. I try and study proper anatomy and making my own poses from hand occasionally as I want to be an overall better artist, but the models have helped me with having better proportions and position of that anatomy. I've had all these ideas for drawing but I just don't wanna be called a fraud for just wanting to draw.
Don't listen to them
They are just salty that their years of suffering and struggles are invalidated because new and better tech are coming to make lives easier for us
It's the same with how Knights/samurais got really salty over the usage of guns, their years and years of training could be ended by just a gun
Or how wagons deemed the first cars unsafe and dangerous and how horses are more reliable, their years and effort training an obedient horse suddenly voided by a machine thay moves
Evolution, progress is constant and is now
Why should we suffer? When we could make our lives easier?
Stay salty, art elitists
Same things happened to me.
Those people just wants you to fail nothing more
Honestly, sometimes I just Want To Draw something, but then anatomy and posing kicks me in the butt and I end up going "welp, guess that lives in my brain forever" and I get sad about it 😅
I literally couldn't care less if it's "cheating" to trace 3D models. I'm not drawing because I need your approval or to prove something; I am just trying to tell a story in a comic as efficiently and effectively as I can. The ends justify the means. I don't need to "earn" the right to draw something.
Also can you imagine using only this as reference and changing it for every panel of a comic? It’ll take forever and it’s too time consuming. I use it mostly for feet (they’re so hard to draw) and saves so much time when you’re drawing a long story. People who don’t draw are the ones who criticized.
exactly. every time after making a panel, you have to adjust the pose to make a whole new one which still obviously takes time. and then there's cleaning up (and possibly colouring/shading) all the pages too. in the end, it's still art you've made :/
AMEN!
@@lllinai i would only use it for the most important panels, I can manage to simplify the rest and make it look great, hope y’all keep drawing and improving
@@MegaPieru3000 I've been drawing for almost 30 years now and have taken several anatomy and art classes, including life drawing, throughout grade school and college with a minor in game art... including 3D character modeling and 2D animation. I have taught art classes to undergraduates (though they were focused on composition). So to answer your question, yes, I can draw without models and am confident enough in my art to not have to bring other artists down to feel good about myself. That's why I can say with certainty that trying to gatekeep the hobby I love is the height of arrogance and this elitism is one of the big reasons why new artists are so scared to share anything with the art community for fear of being flamed.
I don't remember saying I'd ever used the 3D model tools before, which outside of playing around with them, I haven't. I understand you jumping to conclusions (particularly as I was using the first person to emphasize my point), and don't resent you for doing so as, again, I don't think there's any shame in using the tools. So while I don't have the need, nor really the desire, to use the 3D tools, I don't demean people who do. After watching this video I definitely will consider using them for reference now and again, though the actual model construction doesn't really work with the art style I'm currently running with. I understand that you aren't actively demeaning people who use the tools, you're just saying they will never really understand, and thus never enjoy art, until they start drawing humans from scratch, if I'm reading that correctly. While not attacking them as artists, I'm sure they would still find it to be an elitist viewpoint and extremely insulting - though I can't speak for them.
It's like telling someone who loves to make food by following recipes, "you're not allowed to have fun cooking unless you invent your own recipes". You could argue that they perhaps "don't understand cooking" in the sense that they don't know how the science works and gastronomic theory in order to make their own recipes, but at the end of the day, if they are having fun with the process, and the food they make is enjoyed by themselves and others (or even NOT lol - again, it's the process that brings the enjoyment), then who am I to tell them that they are "enjoying the hobby wrong"?
I get where you're coming from 100%, as drawing from the mind tends to be very enjoyable for me and many others I know (though it's also piss poor practice if you don't have reference, as it will just reinforce bad habits), but to say someone "isn't a real artist" because they use 3D model reference is absurd. Not that I'm saying YOURE saying that, but I've seen plenty of others who share that sentiment.
Also, your comment seems to imply that the only thing one can draw is human figures. These models won't help with environments, animals, catoonishly proportioned characters (or just inhuman in general) or the like. So it's entirely possible for someone to "understand it", as you put it, through their love of drawing subjects OTHER than non anatomically correct humans etc. You're trying to tell me an artist, lets say one as skilled at environment painting as Bob Ross, doesn't "understand the joys of art" just because that person might not be confident in drawing anatomical humans, and thus uses 3D model tools for them?
As a game development major, I can tell you that the very first thing you learn is, "fun is subjective" - so your assumption that you know what is "fun" for everyone is extremely presumptuous - though a very common mental trap that I can't fault you for. If someone is having fun using the 3D tools, then let them. Might they find more fulfillment by drawing from scratch? Maybe. But that's up to them to discover and I'm not going to try and push them away from drawing by lashing out at them before they get that chance.
Not trying to say that you necessarily think the opposite of all this as, again, I see that the main intent of your comment was more or less a suggestion for artists to break outside of their comfort zones and maybe find more enjoyment that way - an idea I support. It's clear that you are simply passionate about making art and want others to be able to experience that same passion that you feel for themselves. I just think your delivery of that idea may need some work, and I simply took this time to flesh out my stance a bit more as well.
I would have personally worded your comment as, "Have you tried drawing a character without using the 3D models? If not, you may be surprised by how fulfilling it can be. It can really free you up creatively and help speed up your drawing workflow, so I recommend giving it a shot." I've kept the spirit of the message without the elitist undertones. As a rule of thumb, using the phrase, "you people" is poor rhetoric.
honestly, adjusting the 3d models is as exhausting as trying to draw anatomy from scratch, but you know at least you’ll have something decent 😭
Lol yes it's easy but dang just adjusting already takes alot of time 🤣🤣🤣
@@MegaPieru3000 I know how to draw without 3d stuff but right now I don't have a stylus and I really need one cuz I suck with my fingers XD.
@@MegaPieru3000 smh. You can learn from tracing. Just don't rely on it for everything you wanna learn from., tracing over anatomy can help you figure out things you would not have noticed just by lookin and get a better idea of perspective, at least it helped me learn. Personally I think people should do a bit of both. Models are fine especially for comics when the person is more interested in telling their story then selling art for money..
Also they clearly wanna do digital art that's why they said they were using their fingers so why offer pencil and paper?
I do both traditional and digital and learning digital was like relearning art. No clue why people say it's easier. It's not. You just have every brush and paints there instead of having to pay for them in real life.
@@MegaPieru3000 next thing you know refrencing is gonna be bad lmao
@@MegaPieru3000 Yes, but hilariously enough, I learned anatomy from tracing images of muscle structure, so I feel nothing from using these 3D models XDDD
Ah yes because 3d models with magically teach you shading, how to draw clothing, the face proportions, colors, art composition, make you do perfect lineart, comes with a full package on how to use layers, you just have to erase the 3d model and then your art is done!
LOL I know right? 3D clothing in particular is not very realistic. (insert Bethesda game joke here) If you're relying on that you're already in trouble most of the time. And this nonsense is even more silly because because the pretentious snobs keep ignoring COMPOSITION. It doesn't matter how good your mad art skills are if you can't compose the scene you won't bring it to life and it will just look flat and lifeless. No matter how good your technical skill is, no matter how "purist" your art is.
I feel like the people that say it's cheating have never tried It and just talk out of their ass...like everyone about anything on the internet I guess.
@@Wastelandman7000 when I went to school on 3d arts and 2d composition for concepting, this was an important factor when we try to come up with a model for 2d assistance, when we have to do clothing we do procederal animations of the clothing drifting in gravity to simulate weight, BUT what we do after is we get to editing the model, change the weights, add vertices locks to make it look more real or stylized, then when the animation is finished its good for tracing to print. when it comes to comics, this is great for teamworkers to help the drawer find their guidelines and perspectives. We usually dont have all the time in the world and this makes the work station faster.
I rarely see people complain about 3d models being used for backgrounds
Wouldn't it be amazing though if a simple 3d model would make you able to draw clothes and shading and proportions? XD
thank you so much. i was so afraid of using 3d models and tracing over them because i felt like i was cheating and that i won't learn a thing from it. it was really frustrating and devastating for my mental health because i'm afraid people will say things as "you're not an artist" "you just trace over 3d models, cheater" something like that ToT but today, i decided to try it and realization slapped me in the face. i realized that you won't actually copy the whole thing because you also need to apply your art style to it and it's not as bad as i think. i'm crying from happiness because of realizing how pathetic i am for thinking that and that i won't really be stressed out from thinking about poses anymore. i wanted to be a great artist someday and using these advance tools makes me think that i will not be *that* great artist because i am not doing everything by hand :( reading all the comments also helped me have the courage to do it because all the analogy actually make sense. if using 3d model is cheating then so does layers, undo button, all the other buttons, and many more. i am really grateful that i clicked on your video. honestly, this solved like 70% of my stress and anxiety about art so thank you, thank you so much.
Yes utilized the tools that you want. Because the matter is the end results.
@@jcsagreofficialph i agree. i never really thought of this much before
Your comment and this video motivated me at this moment. 🥰
Even though it's been 2 years now, I love how this aged in comparison to AI art at the moment.
yeah. same people who were complaining about using 3d models are probably the same people complaining about ai art now. they dont realize that these are all just tools. and an artist using those tool will probably always make more interesting things than an average person just typing prompts for an AI
If that's considered cheating.... then we all cheated tracing letters to learn how to write. Laaawwl
Those types of comments are what contributed to the discouragement to stop drawing 11 years ago (getting back into art only in recent years) and I hope those types of comments don't discourage anyone else anymore. This video is a huge encouragement! That I wish I had back then. Let no one make you feel bad for learning the way you can!!
A lot of artists always debate about what is cheating and what is not. Like, tracing, references etc while the experts are there keep on drawing stuff in their own way. Other experts didn't learn anatomy but already earning a lot. Other experts using different ways on making his/her speed increase by using everything the softwares have to give like photo manipulation, reference, 3D poses and now earning a lot. So, what's the point of the debate?
@@AiSakurai The debate about cheating comes from artists who FEEL cheated because they feel like anyone who uses these little 'hacks' to speed up their workflow is somehow not earning it. It's elitism, is what it is. Whereas, if you've ever actually tried to use these 3D models and the like yourself, as I have, you'll VERY quickly realize that they aren't worth squat if you aren't already a skilled artist. The cheating argument is bull because anyone who isn't already skilled enough will get little to no benefit from the usage of them. These hacks are meant to speed up the workflow of someone who already has the talent to do without them. The reality of working on art professionally is that there just simply isn't enough time.
@@jupitersnoot4915 Exactly.
@@MegaPieru3000 No one can give this kind of limitation to art. And no one can tell about who is an expert and not in this world called art.
@@MegaPieru3000 Well, for me, tracing this models will not help. This 3D models should be as another reference. In my case, I use this 3D models too but damn they are not as expressive as what my mind want to. So, I didn't stop in the 3D models. I also have pictures references, (even use gacha games etc) to create different views and references. Bdw, I already read and do things related to anatomy but it those things doesn't stuck in my memory. Things like data isn't my thing since my brain is wired to edit everything I learn. In other words, since anatomy is realistic, when I do it, will turn to stylized already. I even go to art school and when I draw from real life that's how things do to me. This example of mine means not everyone have the same way of learning things in art. Our brain have different wiring and we cannot just say everyone learn anatomy. Let each other grow from their own ways with guidance of like "Beware of making your character lifeless. Make sure it was expressive. If you can't learn anatomy, look at the mirror. " etc. We have lots of ways after all we are "creatives". Creatives aren't limited.
The 3D models seems like an evolution of the panic about artists using references. People don't understand they're just tools to optimize your workflow. Also, many forget that in the end: composition, color theory, controling values, character design, storytelling, stylization, etc are as important (if not even more, depending on who you ask) as anatomy and perspective, and no 3D model can teach you those principles.
It's quite literally creating your ideal reference image, which is invaluable when it comes to art. A lot of people can be scouring images for hours trying to find that perfect, pose, whereas these tools simply allow you to make them. Can't believe people would consider this as cheating XD
@@CaptainGrubZ I once heard "Back in the times people considered using the eraser to be cheating".
@@gavial1448 lmao 💀
@@MegaPieru3000 Yes, I can, in fact and I can confirm its fun to just draw whatever, specially when you're looking for compositions or character designs. Assuming someone can't draw a human figure from the top of their head just because they use references is rude. Do you think using a 3D model or photo reference means that you'll be able to draw it perfectly? No, because you still need fundamentals, and guess what. People learn fundamentals of anatomy with real life references and gesture drawing. 3D models are just tools like many others, and of course they'll never replace knowledge but let's not antagonize them, please. Even the most professional artist in the world will use references at some point because you can't know everything in the world, and the way to learn something is to see it, study it and copy it.
By that same logic, using reference is also cheating. There is no cheating in art unless you are literally tracing over someone else's work and claiming it as your own. Heck, even tracing is good for practice.
Its funny how people think that a 3d model will make them a pro artist in half a year, I bet they got a nice surprise 30 minutes later when they tried it xD.
@@MegaPieru3000 if you think people are mindlessly tracing over the 3d models you havent been paying attention. A lot of the time the 3d model never fits the style you want to draw so you have to adjust adjust adjust . The 3d model doesn't finish the drawing for you and usually doesn't have anatomy on it so drawing clothes without keeping that in mind will make it look weird. Besides it only shortens half the process of drawing a picture. The 3d models are meant to be traced on in csp otherwise people are better off looking at reference pictures because 3d models dont provide anything accurate, they just make it easier to visualize what is accurate and trace the accurate/complicated parts.
@@MegaPieru3000 you’re completely wrong. You need to learn to draw muscle definition, facial structure, nose and mouth, clothes, hair, clothes wrinkles, accessories, backgrounds, etc. For artists; especially webtoon artists and/or manga artists need to draw many many drawings in a single day find this very useful! Also finding reference is VERY difficult so 3D model is not “mindless” nor “effortless” maybe try for yourself to make a ‘mindless masterpiece’ if you think it’s that easy
Judging by what you say, you clearly havent understood the importance of tracing 3d model and just pushing your elitist purist artist agenda. Lemme explain to your closed minded brain the examples; 1) 3d models arent perfect, the knee, shoulder and elbow joints don't have collision
physics so you as an artist is responsible to fix it or else it'll look weird and bad 2) some 3d bodies has some fixed ratios, again the artist must have knowledge how to adjust it and fix the anatomy, 3) Knowing Color theory and applying it is hard/harder sometimes artist struggles in this than the lineart of anatomy (3d fucking model doesnt provide colors) l, 4) 3d models just provide a boost start to save time (skipping the sketch and being efficient in time is crucial for an artist especially professionals) so stop commenting against it because you sound like a closed minded boomer stuck in your little bubble world.
Not talking abt everything but tracing is good for practice?? Nah thx Im not buying it.
@@khinwutyikyaw7224 do u even draw?
Personally for me using 3d models helped me a lot. And saved me time from trying to draw a pose from memory.
YOU ARE STILL A VALID ARTIST IF YOU USE 3D MODELS FOR POSES. Thats how I started out until I eventually don't rely on it as much since I progressed as an artist. But if a pose is really tricky and you don't want to use a copyright image as a ref 3d models at least let you pose them they way you visualized! Idk why people get so mad over this. It's literally just another art tool. That was like when my dad (an abstract traditional artist/art elitist) told me digital art is not a real art thing because it's "cheating and anyone can do it" XD
I draw but I don’t really care about a career in art so I just trace over the models, sometimes regardless of how easy the pose is
Never tell these people about art history they'd lose their minds
@Letícia Lopes Or for committing art theft by...
My god....
Referencing other people's artstyles
@Letícia Lopes Leanardo said himself to have references. A lot of references. Its natural. Can someone really draw accurately something without reference? my my
@@MegaPieru3000 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockney%E2%80%93Falco_thesis
Just let people use whatever tools they want, it's self expression, calm down
@@MegaPieru3000 here it is again. Well, I only believe those like illustrator who proves their expertise (even with 20+ experience) and even admit that they cannot draw without reference. Lastly, if you can define what is the meaning art then we can continue this.
@@MegaPieru3000 Did I even say to use 3D models as fast shortcut? I say over and over again to treat it like another references. And after all, you cannot use 3D models without the knowledge of anatomy since it was base in anatomy. You will definitely be frustrated when you use 3D models without the knowledge of anatomy. (Which is quite obvious) Should this be really always be bring up?
I like how people call it "cheating" and completely ignore the reason why the 3D models are there in the first place. They aren't there just to take up processing power and look cool.
Even if you use the 3D models, in my opinion you still need to have knowledge of how anatomy works, clothing folds, lighting etc. Just because you use 3D models doesn't mean you instantly understand how to do everything else, it isn't that magical so people need to genuinely just relax and take a breath. I personally don't use them but I understand completely why other people would as it is their way of learning.
This! I tried to use the 3D models when I had basic anatomy knowledge and I still had a hard time figuring out what to draw and how and where. Now I've improved (I am nowhere near confident, but I've definitely improved) and the way I can use these models now is way more useful and makes stuff less frustrating.
This is exactly what I'm saying. People that use 3d models too frequently aren't gonna learn anything. They need to spread their wings and learn how to draw without tracing over a model.
@@sabersin7694 I think the models are very useful for beginners if they know how to use them. I do not think that people who have not studied anatomy aren't allowed to use the models or whatever. They can and it can definitely be helpful, but the models are not going to substitute learning anatomy; that's not what theyre meant for anyway.
@@sabersin7694 People using models are going to learn something. They are learning angles and perspective. So yeah people can use models if they want to. Its not going to hinder their skills.
@@sabersin7694 by tracing models ur mind n hands understand how anatomy works
It’s not cheating, i used a 3D model for my new profile picture. I needed a pose but couldn’t really think of one, so this really helped me and I’ve been drawing for 11 years now
It’s not cheating. He knows how to color and draw fully, it’s more like a fast way to move through, especially to webtoon artists. Cheating is only use if ur on a test and u have no knowledge on art and just use websites to do these types of things. Though overall, this is just a fast way to do stuff since remember it shortens ur time of waste when making webtoon/manga/comic digitally. Not fair tho for traditional artists that’s for sure, but laoovan is him. And he’s a very good artists, those blends. Can’t even do those 😔
I agreed.
Its not really unfair irl artists have lots of tools to do the same effect traditional art simply tends to be a lot more expensive than digital depending in the medium
To do anatomy look better when you draw you gotta trace them ((not actually trace just to trace them after that remember the anatomy you’ve draw you can repeatly do the same anatomy you’ve draw so you can remember the anatomy without tracing it))
Even Traditional artists have this advantage. Even though they’re molded from scratch, the artist of Dinotopia creates his own references to get a better understanding of where light will hit as well as taking photos of compositional shots. Its just as complex and time consuming as using 3d placeholders in digital art. Each artist has their own method and neither of them should be considered unfair or cheating.
One point I’d like to mention; when art becomes a source of income for artists, efficiency is key. 3D models are a great resource your program can provide that can help lessen how long you take on a piece. Especially if you have multiple poses to do. Keeping your work flow short and sweet is the name of the game.
Someone wants to be professional, but doesn't want to learn drawing anatomy? It doesn't work like that. Nothing against using these things as a reference, but a professional won't need to trace all the time, or he isn't a professional.
Nobody said anything about not learning to draw anatomy. Building out several rough sketches is almost certainly slower and tracing a figure will never get a good end product without the knowhow to polish it
@@mariasokolovska985 You still need to understand how clothing wraps around the body which requires you to know anatomy. You can see who knows anatomy and who doesn't when using a 3d model, your skills still shine through regardless. Professional artist use 3D models for speed purposes because most of them are on tight schedules. These models are made for artist, for people who know anatomy already and aren't looking to improve, but who are looking to meet a deadline.
To me, the 3D models are just a way for you to get that "perfect" reference. Sometimes you have a certain pose in mind and you can't take a picture of yourself and you spent hooooours looking for a reference picture just to end up with a "not quite there" angle.
It's totally like you said, all the hard work and years of practice to make the final drawing to look cool, to understand what it's wrong is still there!
About the cheating argument... Invalidate people's work is just wrong.
MODELS ARE PERFECTLY FINE TO USE!!! Whether character or environmental models. Professional company's like Disney use them! They really help give you a new perspective and can really help your art become really eye catching. Anyone who says its, "cheating", remember you still have to draw facial features, clothing, hair, ect. The only time you can call an artist a cheater is when they are taking other peoples art and saying its their own.
Amazing vid Laovaan!!! Thanks for the tutorial!!! :)
They say “it’s not cheating if you don’t get caught”. But in my book, “it’s not cheating if it’s technically not illegal”.
I use 3D models myself, and I’ve been seeing dozens of works made by professionals that use them. They are helpful, and can be just another tool for our Arsenal. We can still keep our artist integrity since these are not entirely exclusive, they’re open for everyone, so in the rule of populism that means they’re perfectly fine.
Of course, not everyone has to use then. The overall factor, is that it’s a choice. An entirely personal decision, nothing more and nothing less.
As someone who draws out of sheer hobby and not to care much about anatomical improvement I actually used to draw over 3D models, now I realise it’s probably the right thing if I did
@@jackqueslack2339right thing, maybe, maybe not. That’s entirely up to you.
It’s not the wrong thing, so long as the steps you take don’t hurt people.
Overall, it’s your choice.
A lot of people say that those who scream "cheater" didn't draw a single thing. I think it's on the contrary, it's the people who have spend time and money to learn how to draw "traditionally". They see these amazing tools, and what they REALLY feel is just envy and resentment. So they invent these justifications for themselves like "using X is cheating", to calm themselves down that no, they didn't waste their life and savings on art school, learning on how to anatomy the old-fashioned way.
except it’s even more ridiculous because good traditional artists also use references lmao
I think it’s a mix of people who don’t draw and art elitist, art isn’t hard that’s just the truth of it. it just takes time to learn and master like every other skill but most people give on a skills if they don’t feel instant gratification and the people who are the best at it have the drive that others simply don’t. So I think a lot of people who don’t draw out artist on this mountain then when they hear an artist uses a reference or a model that reality is shattered so they resort to attempting to “take back the art world from these fakes!” People who call it just cheating most likely don’t draw, people who bring up their x amount of experience their blood sweat and tears are most likely elitist
Oh yeah it's definitely both. People love to be better than others. "You can't trace anything ever, you can't use pictures for reference, you can't take things from others' art styles, you can't-" no matter what you do people will come up with something wrong with it. No idea why that's a thing, but alas. Best we can do in these cases I feel is just people watch, learn from any good points they make, maybe explain your side and reasons, and just see what happens. Are they open minded but learnt from the wrong people? Great, you can help eachother out. Are they stubborn and arrogant? It's not worth your time.
@@MegaPieru3000 I can (and do), but the key point is that I'm drawing a comic, and with models I can set up poses and complex angles much faster.
@@MegaPieru3000 That's what I've been thinking the whole time when I read the comment section. You see as an artist myself, I think references and 3d models are technically the same. It's just how people use them. Reference can be used in Digi and traditional artworks, while 3d models are used only in digital.
People are just mad that art is much more accessible now and they want to feel better by doing absolutely everything from scratch - which most of the times doesn't even look good. Reference and 3D poses are important and very helpful with the art process and teach a lot of things. Without references and 3D models, I wouldn't have improved as much as I have for the past years and that's a fact. I bet the hateful comments came from people with no art skills whatsoever. I encourage everyone to use 3D models and not be ashamed of it - most professionals are doing it.
EDIT, because it seems I'm not clear enough: I'm not supporting tracing art, tracing is WRONG and you'll never learn anatomy with it. You have to first learn to draw bodies by using 3d models and photos BESIDE the drawing as a reference, not trace over it, to really understand the proportions. I'm talking about people that can draw bodies well already. Also the video itself said that tracing 3d models does nothing, because they don't look good. You need to draw over these lines and insert your understanding of anatomy to make it look good.
Good thing you said “most times” you were dangerously close to insulting our boy Kim Jung Gi
you are right, since the beginning of time artist have referenced models, but the point is that once you learn to draw well, you need your references less and less since is faster to sketch on your own than creating poses, moreover would be better to not trace directly over it, but side by side so you train your eyes, but obiovusly if you are in a rush tracing is faster
@@LollyPopTuttu Yeah it's true, I don't go over them either, it's useful for people who have to work faster
nope, not most professionals do it.
It's not MORE accessible. It's a accessible as it has always been. And artists who only trace but don't understand anatomy form shape language value study light studie perspective etc will be found out anyways. You should ALWAYS use reference. But using reference properly is NOT tracing! Unless you are trying to learn and then you shouldn't be trying to sell that.
It's not cheating, it's about being efficient and effective at the same time ...
As someone who work in the animation industry, shortcuts as ALWAYS in demand as long it doesn't sacrifice appeal and principles. I heard that artists use templates on their own work everyday and they know how to have their own freedom instead of seeing it as a fail safe. An artist can always tell what is traced by looking at the flow of the drawing. Trace focuses on safe and ridged drawing while an inspired pose has elements from the original content but has freedom that focuses on flow and energy. Life drawing trains you to copy models but focus on line of action and flow.
It blows my mind when they call any aspect of digital art "cheating" or "too easy", like tf? If it's so easy I want you to do what I do! Let me have my digital tools and shoo! XD
If there were no 3d models I would still be making deformed body types
Same
Precisely!
Exactly
the kneecaps and ankles would be synonymous if it weren't for 3d models
Don't become dependent on 3d models, they suck. They're just good as reference to avoid plagiarism.
arent these just the same as those wooden pose dolls that artists use for references anyways? the only difference is one is physical the other is not.
Basically! Or referencing live models or stock photos. It's just another tool!
yes but this is directly tracing it, when i was in art college we was taught to draw from reference, but not directly trace it as it leads to a better more original art piece, as well as learning how to draw said thing you are drawing.
@@shadesoina my anatomy got better through tracing so
@@shadesoina its okay to trace lmao as long as u don't take it as your own or claim that u didn't trace.
tracing helps with analyzing silhouette and anatomy
@@shadesoina you can also directly trace it. Just take a pic of the pose the doll is in and paste it into the canvas on a digital art program and boom you can trace it.
as a person who trace 3D models at first it gave me intrusive thoughts about tracing because i saw alot of opinions about it and mostly it says that it will not help you improve as an artist or simply say it's cheating but as i learn that it does not matter and the important thing is to use a helpful efficient art tool and ways that can help you because many of us is struggling and it's not that bad to make your life a lot more easier.(◍•ᴗ•◍)❤
@@MegaPieru3000 oh hi!! yes that's true!! i just trace the body since im very bad at anatomy. im pretty much decent at it rn and gladly i dont use 3d models anymore bc i gotta step up my game somehow lol but gotta admit that 3D models was one of the tools that help me improve!!^^^
Gantz was created entirely with 3D models, and it's one of the most successful mangas out there. So long as you know anatomy and can turn stiff models into fleshy meatbags, you're golden.
I was never aware that drawing was a constant test that I should have studied for.
I've actually used 3d models in my beginning to learn about anatomy an the distortion of the "camera" and now I can draw without this, it really was helpful
So 3d models helped you improve anatomy? I would love to use 3d models often, especially if it’ll help me learn anatomy.
csp is made with comics in mind, and if you're pumping out comics there are hundreds on panels that are only going to be looked at for a few seconds at most... let people have the shortcut! or even if you aren't doing a comic! i use them as references and my style is WAY too cartoony and distorted to even try to trace them but damn is it nice to look at a good hand reference lol
Exactly. Plus, you paid for the tool, you'd be silly to not use all the features you could.
THANK you for pointing this out, so many comments are talking past each other. Clipstudio used to be called Mangastudio and when you have to pump out 20 pages of manga every week for your JOB you gotta use as many "power tools" as possible. That's why they're in the software and if people find other non-professional uses for them that's awesome too actually.
Yeah, I’ve felt that I was always cheating by using models but then I realized that I’m not tracing nor am I straight up being lazy. It still takes hard work and understanding of what looks right and what doesn’t to make a model reference look good.
I'm using them a lot when I have to draw something. It really helps me with the realistic proportions and poses, also learning where I can do a certain movement that i'll need or how will the shadow hit the body and lothes. Using them is not bad at all. At the end it's nothing more than using a reference that you can edit in real time to help you
The people calling this cheating are happily using AI art generating tools right now. They have no moral ground, in any direction.
I tried to use 3d model before when I was still starting, ngl it's actually pretty hard, the perspective was wrong & everything felt wrong with it.
I tried to use shape while using the 3d model as a reference, still didn't help much ah.
If only this video exist back then 😭
Very helpful! Thank you so much ❤️
I'm a beginner artist. I've been trying to avoid using 3d models because of the fear of somebody calling me a "cheater" Thanks for reassuring me that it's not cheating champ!
Yeah me too
Don't let anyone deter you. There is no such thing as 'cheating' in art.
If you were trying to chop down a tree with your forehead, and someone offered you an axe, you'd be an idiot to stomp your feet and refuse the axe because it's apparently 'cheating'.
Using technology is not cheating, imagine if we tell architect to stop using 3D program(s) to design their work and label it as cheating, that's just absurdly stupid.
Why the heck we come back to the less efficient way if there are many technologies which can saves our time and effort?
I commissioned an artist recently who used this to set up the scene before drawing, I found it fascinating. Such a cool concept
They call it "cheating" like art is just a competition 😩
Imagine these people learning that art hacks exist since the beginning of art... I mean, learning anatomy is important and space vision too, but our time and knowing how to use references are valuable too! Since I began to use 3D models in my art, specially for fantasy stuff, I feel less stuck. I mean, I have depression and all and couldn't get out of bed for nothing, not even for drawing, which is something I love to do because I can't feel satisfied with my art...... if someone told me to stop using my references I would go absolutely apeshit.
Dude I swear
I was about to start using these types of models, but I was skeptichal if I should cause of the stiff poses and the whole cheating debate. But then you uploaded this video!
You saved me a lot of headache, your timing couldnt be more perfect
I will use them carefully!
Same!! It's been on my mind, but I'm scared that the learning curve would be too difficult
@@why9909 honestly, it was confusing for me in the beginning because I didn’t know how to use it, but then I saw another video where laovaan talked about his comic that he published and he mentioned using 3D models. So from there i practiced clicking on a certain limb and seeing how far it could move. And it became more easier for me from there.
The cheating is such a weird idea to me. Art is about the expression and the intent. Craft is about the skill. Just because you are using a tool doesn’t mean that you are less of an artist. That would be like saying you have to write your own art program instead of using someone else’s because that would be cheating and you can’t use a programming language someone someone else has come up with either. Better get used to writing ones and zeros if you want to make a web comic with a in-depth and intriguing story. Personally I am willing and eager to (cheat) in every single possible way that would get me closer to the result that I am going for. On the other hand there is a noticeable different affect when you use a different tool. For my art I use an AI to do the majority of the shading so that I can create things faster. It will never look as good as when I sit down and methodically plan where all of the shadows are but it’s still Art. I paid for the program and I regularly credit the programmers to try to help with their Business. Back in the days when people had to write their own programming languages to make the tools to make the programs it was objectively better. You could fit entire games on floppy disks which takes up about as much room as an audio file. If people still did that today then we would not need super computers to run video games but imagine how much time it would take to go back to the ones and zeros for every single effect. Something like Skyrim would be impossible. I don’t care that it would be an objectively better experience with very little bugs and no lag because it would never even exist.
In the end a computer can’t do anything without being directed by an artist.
Yo, do you have any videos on that shading AI? I’d love to see it!
@@SharkWitchMeruna Unfortunately I do not. Making tutorial videos is a lot more challenging than you would think. Especially when you are still learning the medium. Artis who can show the journey and document it in a entertaining way are immensely talented performers in my opinion. I am currently working on a web comic script. When I get to the point in the process where I actually start making it I will be documenting the journey and posting it to CZcams as a way to advertise myself. I don’t for see actually getting to that point for probably about a year.
Would you like me to just explain the process right here?
When I was first starting out with digital art, all I used was Autodesk Sketchbook, Deviantart, and my inspirations artwork. I would spend hours tracing over their artwork and make my own characters with it. Of course, I wouldn't post this artwork, it was only for me. It helped me learn how my inspirations made their styles, how they exaggerated anatomy, and just overall how they draw. Around 6 years later, I still think tracing, in moderation, is an helpful and sometimes essential skill or practice that artists should try.
3d models aren't cheating, it's getting smart. You should still learn the basics because the basics give you a foundation to stand on. When you understand that part you know about the perspective and ratio of being able to use these models and putting them in a realistic type space. Don't hate on someone for getting clever. Congrats, now you can get clever too.
Why do people think you can cheat in art by using easier methods? As an artist, your customer isn't your math teacher who is interested in the correct process, he is interested in results. Even if art was super easy with 3d models, why should i intentionally use a harder method when there is an easy one?
Exactly
Some of the people who're mad were the ones who watched every single CZcams video and read every single book about anatomy just to... draw a body. In short they went through hell so they EXPECT that others experience the same hell as well. That mindset is just really toxic, ugly, and petty though.
@@MegaPieru3000 Babe I'm referring to people who are bullying others for the fact that they trace over models. I'm not downplaying their efforts in actually learning anatomy, but if they are trying to bring down people who are choosing the much easier way, then it IS petty and toxic. That's their way, so why should you hate on people who enjoy tracing over models instead?
@@MegaPieru3000 And what's wrong with that? Just because you find something enjoyable doesn't mean everyone else finds it enjoyable as well. Let them be. Let them be the judge of their own creation. It's them who will see what's wrong with their work in the future, and it's them to decide.
I really don't see any difference between this and a traditional artists mannequin.
The traditional is in my opinion a little more tricky to use since you "convert" a 3D object into 2D, meaning paper. Your monitor (not talkimg bout curved ones and something like this) are always flat so you more or less got it 2D already and it is a little easier to work with. I mean with a regular mannequin if you havent worked too much with it, the slightest displacent caness up your art but thats more of a personal thing
@@akuchi_bleh take a photo of the mannequin 🐱🏍
@@akuchi_bleh Even better! Trace yourself! In a mirror after a mirror photo! An old photo of yourself! Or a computer screen! 🐃🎐🎉🎈🤹♂️🏎
I prefer the digital one cuz u can adjust the perspective (make it extreme or non existing) and lighting and also add buildings
I believe using these is not bad at all, everyone has their own way of learning and improving, for me I just heard of 3d models today after a year of doing art, and I can see myself already understanding proportions and perspective more, because of the 3d image that I have in my mind, teaching me to think in 3D for my illustrations and not 2D. :) Good luck everyone with your art journey, trust your feeling and the process!
To me it feels like an in built feature of those wooden dolls you can often see in someone's art studio.
Just easy to have, and great reference materials. Doesn't mean you're immediately great at sketching or don't know how to draw. Since that's an entirely different beast.
You simply have a now digital version of how a pose could look like. Wow.
@@MegaPieru3000 Not necessarily. Over time you learn to draw said poses without needing to draw over them. Tracing images does help understand the build of the body.
@@MegaPieru3000 You never seen those wooden modelling statues that are found in about every single art studio? It's easy reference material. Doesn't mean you never studied anatomy. It just helps.
@@MegaPieru3000 The 3D model is simply a digital version of those. It helps and makes it easier but doesn't discredit the user.
If you think you can do better, or know you can do better. Show it.
@@MegaPieru3000 Like I said, if you think you can do better. Go ahead and show it
I love how people are so mad about him using models but if they used the same models they still end up with a shitty drawing 🦆🌟
Thank you for this. People tend to forget that learning how to use digital tools takes time and effort as well.
as an artist myself, a shortcut is a shortcut, but cheating is a whole nother race. Using models, tracing over them, you're still learning, youre still growing. Those who call it cheating obviously called good gamers hackers/aimbots lmao.
As a beginner artist trying to improve my art, I started to use the models at first because I struggled with positioning and proportions. I started to feel guilty and felt like I was cheating when I was getting positive comments on my arts because I used a model to help me. My sister told me then it was a tool so it's OK to use the models as long as your own art in the end that gets to your end results. And then I found the first video laovaan made on this and it encouraged me, I slowly improved and I still am. I barely use the models now unless it's a really complicated pose. These videos really do give a boost of encouragement though. Thank you Laovaan for making this! It really helps!
Cheating? Pros need every help they can get to work fast. It's the amateurs and philosophers who usually complain about this approach, not the serious artists. Totally on board with the comparison of the calculator always used by serious mathematicians and scientists, but disallowed only for elementary students. Keep these awesome videos coming!
you are my hero! I started using 3d models 1 or 2 years ago and ever since then I'm so scared to get called a cheater. Next time, I point them to this video!
Ya'll remember that one scene in Titanic where Jack is drawing Rose naked
Yeah that's apparently cheating now
XD schools who have students pose for reference
Oh no
LMAOOO
I don't consider using 3D models cheating but y'know, that one scene on Titanic where Jack drew Rose is different. Using 3D models in digital art is like putting canvas on top of your reference. It is still tracing. What Jack did is he copied the model by predicting the correct size and positions of each parts based on his perception. It's different.
@@thatquietkid144 it is certainly different on the process, but in the end it is the same principle. to be based on what one sees to either reproduce or create from this pose ^^
@@icaonix I agree, it is still the same in the end. I get your point but like what you said, they have different process. That would only mean they're still different. The difference is that, I don't want to repeat it but (I already mentioned it on my previous comment) What Jack did and those students in art school with models for reference, they use a certain skill and time to copy the reference. They start from a blank canvas, they practice for hand precision, they improve their skills . Meanwhile, you start with 3D models picture in digital art, you start with a reference behind your canvas. All you need to do is trace the shapes, body parts then add more details. That is why, I understand some people saying tracing 3D models for art is cheating. But don't get me wrong, I am not against it. I've used 3D models before for my animation and it is really time saving xD. #lifehax
It boggles my mind that people make these comments. I remember people were saying that using a digital art program was cheating. That using a graphic tablet was cheating. That using a reference is cheating and I find more people have this misconception with artist using anything as a reference, and I think that what those comments spawn from. Because really, 3D modeling, at least to me, is another kind of reference. It's just a tool to help achieve what you want.
And I've used the 3D modeling on Clip Studio a handful of times and I have to say, it is a pain to use. I wouldn't use it all the time because of the time spent adjusting. The only time I've used one is for simple things because I don't like moving the models too much because it is easy to mess up. Though usually, I tend to start with a sketch and then use a 3D model. It just helps me adjust the model and see what I'm doing clearer. It's also helpful for thing where I don't have/can't find a good reference. Or the reference I'm using isn't helpful because it is only 2D, and I want to see the same pose at a different angle.
Even without tracing the models, it's a great way to learn poses. Being able to rotate it and understand where everything goes even when it's not in sight is extremely helpful.
I've gotten to where I now use 3D models for my characters, they have helped me quite a bit with some of my anatomy (especially hands because I struggled a lot with drawing them in the past). Sometimes, I've debated with myself on wether or not it is cheating, but I do draw my own characters over them, I never trace anything. Sometimes, I do have a little bit of difficulty adjusting them to what I imagine in my head what the drawing would look like, but it still nice.
Musicians nowadays record one part then copy and paste to other sections of the song, but no one complains because all that matters is that the final product sounds good. It’s the same with this. It’s just a tool used to create a brilliant final piece that everyone loves. Very few people see a piece and sit there thinking about how it was created. They just think, wow that’s great. And that’s what matters.
I didn't even know the 3D models had all these different features.
Lost it when he "draws" and completes the picture instantly.
That's exactly how normies think digital art is made. 🤣🤣🤣
I only recently got into digital art, and someone legit said to me "Oh, so you've become lazy now?"
Like?? Digital art does have pros over traditional, but that doesn't mean it isnt still difficult.
@@JasonEatsCrowbar i only get to do digital art at school, and its as difficult as traditional is.
sure digital has many pros, but yes, it still doesnt change the fact that theres still work to be put into it
@@CodenameLavender 100% agree with you.
Line art is time consuming, honestly
It's easy guys, is just 3 simple steps!!
How to draw:
Step 1. Get your 3d models
Step 2. Sketch over them
Step 3. Add details
Profit
Source: Some art tutorial I found, idk
I guess they don't know that animes they watching is literally traced with cgi or model they use nowadays.u know what I mean. That's why anime look more cute or just much better at every angle.
Yah I agree but Naruto are not using 3D... Because when you pause the Naruto Video... It is funny 😂
@@hahanimation1729 Naruto or Boruto? Because Naruto has been over for years...
What the heck? What do you expect? You want them to draw without something like that? Lol hahaha don't make me laugh...making anime is different lol...it's animation...if they don't use, it will take them months or years to finish one episode haha...but when your just going to draw and not making animation...you don't have to use models....you will never learn by tracing...not because it's unfair 4 other it's just because you will never learn by that..
@@devent10n Old Naruto
@@hahanimation1729 thats called smearing its common in animation to make a more fast or dramatic scene
bruh that insta art introduction skit is so funny xD that's basically how others think what we artist do, instant art
People will say the dumbest shit possible if you didnt made 100% of the drawing yourself, keep doing you 🖌️✍️
It's such a silly argument. Even in traditional art, many artists will pose a mannequin or reference an image of the exact pose they want. This is really just the digital art equivalent.
Artists have always used 3D models (either real life or out of wood) for poses! Not using them is a sign of being an ignorant beginner, or of stupidly refusing to use even the most basic tools. Might as well say using a pencil, measurements, or a grid is cheating and that real artists draw by squeezing their own blood onto the canvas instead.
Tradionall artists dont draw over their model bruh
@@zacdrawing7677 no but they do use 3D models as reference just as we digital artists do. They can’t draw over the models like digital artists can duh, that’s why they don’t so they reference it the best we can. Traditional and digital aren’t the same so of course there’s going to be some differences and how each side does a certain thing. At the end of the day it’s still pretty much the same thing. Digital artists just have a bit more flexibility because it’s digital bro
@@zacdrawing7677 ahh this is digital painting by the way, traditional using all traditional method, if it was possible to draw over a model like digital, no one will neglect to do so, digital painting even in professional concept artist, they all use what make them work faster, there’s no rules, what’s matter is the end result! Even animation require tracing real life human movements.
@@zacdrawing7677 Actually traditional artist have traced over models. Ever heard of rotoscoping in animation. Animators used to trace over videos of real people to get some motions right.
@@zacdrawing7677 In the 1600s some artists used a camera obscura to draw over their models tho
Could you please do a video on your experience as a beginner artist when you started out?
As somebody who more recently got into drawing again: For me, those models helped me get over the initial fear of bad proportions and positioning. I always had the "oh I'll never get that right." Feeling. I saw too many mistakes in my drawings, especially compared to the role models and professionals I saw and aspire to, and it kept me down and from trying stuff.
When seeing that tool, it let me draw again, with less fear. And as I grow more bold, I start to rely on them less now, since they are as mentioned, not perfect, and don't include faces, details, etc. And as I keep looking up more tutorials on how to do this and that, I learn more from other artists and anatomy studies etc. But they helped me overcome that fear barrier, (still) help me in learning body proportions and dimensions and let me experiment. And most importantly: Made me draw again.
Using 3D models is literally no different than using those wooden art dummies for poses and reference (ok well using 3d models is much better because you can do more but you get the point), so I don’t understand people who say “it’s cheating”
I actually think using this method can really help with figure drawing and understanding for beginners such as myself. Great video man!
If only my Clip Studio Paint free trial didn’t run out 😭
you can get it on sale at 50% off on March, June, September, November i think. Which is what i did. and don`t pirate it if you value your privacy and health of your PC
I think it's 50% off at the moment. Only until the 22th of June though
Just make a new account with new email and you will get another trial... (even tho I used it in the past now im EX user.)
Makehuman+Blender and Krita
Clip Studio’s tools, ESPECIALLY the 3D models help me when I can’t find just the right reference for heavy perspective based drawings. If you think it’s cheating, cool bro. Don’t follow me, I don’t want your pessimism anyway 🤣
Oh and just an edit: if you don’t like how Laovaan uses CSP’s 3D models...then you might need to start researching digital mangaka so you can hound them on how they’re not real artists, too. 🙄
Laovaan:
Gets "called out" for "cheating with 3D"
Proceeds to teach everyone how it's done
Laovaan be like :
Ha! When the result is that great, this can't be considered cheating, tracing or whatever people say
You are a great artist. Don't let people make you feel bad for using 3D models
I was gonna make a "joke" comment, but lost the energy.
Summary: Tools are tools. If you have them, use them. Only beginners or people who dont know art would call this cheating. Some people think that digital art is cheating, as well. Would I need to say anything more on that?
This argument is like saying not going free hand and using rulers for straight lines, or tracing pictures you took of yourself and your friends is cheating.
Exactly, this is the mindset of children that think drawing is a "game", and all they do is sketch the same little thing in the exact same wrong way every day. Thats why these people never improve, they never use refferences, cause its "cheating", they never look at other artists, cause its "cheating", therefore they just stay at the same low level, without even noticing their own mistakes
@@skyrat1896 precisely.
@@MegaPieru3000 you mean, "you people who make use of references"?
Do you know one of the most remarkable reasons why hands are hard to draw?
It is because we all constantly look at hands (our own hands) and perpetually see detail, either unconsciously or consciously.
As a consequence, when we see hands and a "tiny" thing isn't right, we just "know", we collectively feel it.
Also, on your argument of "knowing how things look like" and "memorization", the latter is quite the amount of work for the benefits you get. Meanwhile, about the former...it has been scientifically demonstrated that we OVERestimate our understanding of how physics in action works/looks like.
In other words: the human brain aint good for RTX.
For those who dont know tracing actually does help you improve your drawing skills. I really wish as a kid I had done so, it would have helped me a lot, however at the time I had thought tracing was cheating. But no it's really helpful
Haven’t watched the whole thing but this is helpful because I used them not the best way
I don't even understand why we consider these news tools as cheating. If you want to be a full time artist or work in the game industry, you HAD to work quickly. They don't care what tool you are using as long as the work is done. The old Renaissance paintings are behind us guys... You had to do things fast
Ngl the asset section is the biggest "cheat". I love it. And bless the community for sharing their great tools.
Sometimes I'm not even drawing at all, but just testing out new brushes and gradients😅😅 it's just alot of fun
I never even considered using 3D models, will definitely try it now! I've given up with so many drawings that i wanted to use fancy perspectives with, I'll be able to pick them up again