The CIA's A-12 was Basically Obsolete Before it Could Fly
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 03. 2021
- The companion blog to this episode is over at Medium: amyshirateitel.medium.com/the...
A Canadian Learns America trailer: • A Canadian Learns Amer...
Fighting for Space: www.amazon.com/Fighting-Space...
Breaking the Chains of Gravity: www.amazon.com/Breaking-Chain...
***
The Full Cold War Aerial Espionage Series!
Part 1: • U-2: How the Spy Plane...
Part 2: • The "Invisible" U-2 Im...
Part 3: • What Really Happened w...
Part 4: • America Spying with th...
***
Want to help keep The Vintage Space alive and get access to my Discord server at the same time? I've also got a PATREON PAGE! Any help is so hugely appreciated. / amyshirateitel
You can also join via CZcams Memberships for the same benefits.
Connect on Facebook: / amyshirateitel
Instagram: / amyshirateitel
Twitter: / amyshirateitel
Book me on Cameo: www.cameo.com/amyshirateitel
***
Music: Dreamy Cosmos by Hakan Eriksson
***
Top and pants: Vixen by Micheline Pitt. Not sponsored or anything, I just love her and her company values and want to shout out an incredible brand! #dontshopfastfashion
There are two people on CZcams who are able to hold my attention throughout the video: Amy Shira Teitel and Scott Manley. They show what it's like to make a video with passion and a desire to share it with your audience. Please never become those individuals asking for likes or subscriptions. Keep doing it with your heart, and even if you don't get countless compliments, know that a hell of a lot of people admire your dedication.
She was the best part of Vsauce's video, Could You Survive the movie Alien?
Good comment, I agree with you💯. Just got here from Scott Manley's video where I saw your comment.
Exactly!
They did a colab back in the day.
Playing KSP
Lol, I just got here after watching his latest Q&A video
what made the a-12 obsolete as a reconnaissance plane was the fact that it had a single pilot that already had a lot of work to do even without trying to operate any cameras. the sr-71 fixed that problem with a second crew member dedicated to operating the camera and lens systems while the pilot focused on flying the plane. the a-12 was theoretically much faster than the sr-71 due to being shorter and lighter because of the single cockpit.
No. It was obsolete because Eisenhower and all subsequent presidents refused to risk a man over the Soviet Union ever again, and spy satellites as well as drones like the Ryan Firebee and D-21 provided intel that didn’t risk personnel or expensive aircraft.
The SR-71 would only ever be used over tiny third world nations with sea access... much like the Mig-25 was over Israel and the Sinai with no losses.
Can’t believe this documentary is free! Thank you so much Amy!
You could become a Patreon!
Indeed, this could have gone on something like Nebula, and yet we get this here in CZcams :)
@@Hans-gb4mv we're simply not worthy!
I'll ,never, hear (or say the word) "Reconnaissance" the same again.
I love the video; however the pronunciation is driving me nuts
@@Rdenham1976 I found it odd but pleasant.
Worst one I have come across was an English lady.
She was discussing the skeletal system.
She said: "skelEEtal" every time.
Reconnaissance is a French word. She uses the French pronunciation.
SkelEEtal is the British English pronunciation of “skeletal”.
Missyle is also the British version.
@@davidelliott5843 I get that.
Thing is...I have never heard it used until this. Odd to my ear and pleasantly so.
The struggle is real.
The Oxcart program played such an enormous role in shaping modern machining and manufacturing techniques still used today. Kelly Johnson was one of my favorite figures from the mid twentieth century.
Loving that you're doing aerospace content Amy :)
Thousands of missions , thousands of missiles fired at it. Record: zero shootdows, zero hits. Ten years of flights, in three different decades. I call that a solid WIN.
Thousands, aha, yep, sure, so they say. Against 3rd world countries SAM systems from early 50s, btw
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t Just because the countries were 'third world" doesn't mean the missiles were. (Tho yes, I am aware of export versions.)
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t do you know what third world means? It does not necsesarily mean poor countries. Third world were countries alinged with the old Soviet Union. Its just that alot of them were poor. There are also poor western countries. Like Greece for example or Portugal.
@@michaelgrey7854 nowadays that thermin is used to describe poor countries
"Third world were countries alinged with the old Soviet Union"
They were neutral. That's why they were called 3rd world. Those who were allined with the USSR were the 2nd world
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t Is that they taught you in school? I think it was something similar here, but it had changed gradually to "underdeveloped", which again changed to "developing" during a major curriculum change in the early 90s. It differs wildly from the broadly accepted definition. And yes , it gets real messy and no clear definition. So not really any need to discuss :P
Do not forget that the U-2 and the SR-71 were at the pinnacle of what was technologically possible at the time so it is a bit unfair to say they were obsolete before they got off the ground. It was clear from the outset that sam missiles would eventually catch up with the slow high flyer but the pure speed of the SR-71 at altitude means it was never successfully intercepted or hit by a sam. That is a very good record.
The SR-71 was only shut down as the Air Force "promised" a new platform "within 5 years". This same tactic has been used in several other platforms including the Shuttle. We also no longer have sufficient reason to spend the extraordinary fuel cost used by the SR-71 in its normal operations. However, we do miss the platform, since neither satellites nor drones can cross into hostile first world nations and permit real time observation. Drones have a lag which means that ultra high speed is not really an option. Satellites are easily blocked because it cannot maneuver or change its orbit in any significant way. I honestly expect that we do have a next gen unit either operational or in testing, but the decision has been made to avoid revelation of the platform. But I still miss the style and power of the oxcart.
Sure it was obsolete.
It’s mission was to fly over the Soviet Union. It never did and the job was performed by Corona and KH satellites and eventually OC-135B aircraft under the Treaty for Open Skies.
Yes, it was very high tech. The pinnacle of technology. Much like a Nikon F5 35mm camera was in 2002.
And it was only impervious to missiles because of the specific locations it was used. In international airspace outside of the Soviet Union where they could indeed have shot it down, but didn’t because if hadn’t violated their airspace.... and over tiny third world nations with sea access and limited air power. The Mig-25 also wasn’t shot down when used as a reconnaissance plane in this matter.. no matter how many times the Israelis tried.
@@Bartonovich52 Are you certain, maybe ask the Swedes about SR Soviet overflights.
@@Bartonovich52Nice copies, pretending the SR-71 never had to deal with contested near peer airspace.
Kind of forgets the routine operations inside the heaviest (and one of the most advanced, at the time) air defense network - North Vietnam, where the Soviet Union was busy reinforcing North Vietnam as a way to show that their gear was more than adequate to stop Western forces.
Yes the A-12 was needed, Darth Vader needed SOMETHING to ride around in.
Don't you mean Princess Amadala?
@@H3rmanHan01 No, the A-12 is definitely a Darth Vader ship.
@@H3rmanHan01
Princess Amadala, grrrrrr.
The only thing that would be cooler than her pulling up in an A12 Oxcart would be if she was there to pick me up.
@@c.l.7525 Amy flying the A-12.
Got to see the SR71 in person, it did a flyby right in front of me at an air show then blasted straight up and disappeared. It was amazing.
Got to see one refuel in mid air when I was in an adjoining tanker, when it broke free from the tanker it was hooked up to it got clear of it and hit the throttle and accelerated away and up from us like we were going in reverse.
On a scale of 1 to 10, I think I'll give this video "A 12". 😉
Seriously, Amy, good job! And don't apologize for going to a Part 2, if the subject matter requires it feel free to do it.
underrated comment
Interesting, but would have liked some information on "RCS" and "Finesse" 😉
@@phmwu7368 It's been a year since I watched and commented, so I'm not sure about the references to "Finesse" and "RCS". I do know that RCS typically refers to Reaction Control System when used on spacecraft and extremely high altitude aircraft such as the X-15. I suffer from TMA (Too Many Acronyms) so if you meant something else, no worries.
@@bobblum5973 Finesse = Glide Ratio (e.g. 3 for F-104 compared to 75 for modern gliders) RCS = Radar Cross Section (how the aircraft shows up on radar).
@@phmwu7368 Thanks. I actually did know both those terms, I just wasn't thinking in the right context. 🙂
It's totally amazing that Kelly Johnson's crew at Lockheed's Skunk-Works designed the SR-71 Blackbird using just Blueprint Paper, Drafting Squares & portable electric Calculators.... Plus the CIA having to make 2 layers of Shell Companies in order to pass not being detected by the Soviet Union, where we obtained all the needed Titanium....
back when the cia spied on OTHER countries..
They had the help of IBM mainframes as well here and there
Imagine how mind-blowing it would be if this information were in a Discovery channel documentary like twenty-five years ago. Since at that time it was speculation and fuzzy details.
Not really. That was 1996, and almost everything was well known by then. Starting when it was first retired in 1990, and the one sent to the Smithsonian broke 4 World records that still stand.
I was born in 1959. I remember visiting the National Museum of the Air Force once, happening to be there during an anniversary when they had lots of aircraft out where you could walk up to them. I walked up to a YF-12A and stuck my head up inside the nose gear compartment, and saw a part with a manufacturing date of 1958. I have no idea if that was because it was almost a prototype, or if they installed it at the museum to make it functional if not 100% accurate. It didn't matter; here was a plane roughly as old as I was, with all its capabilities and design beauty. A very memorable experience.
always found it amusing that the very material made to make the A-12 and SR-71.. came from the very place that it was being spied on.
Same with our subs. Hilarious.
@@paynej32013
US subs aren't made out of titanium.
@@dukecraig2402 they did do research with it for sub use but other materials were shadow sourced
@@paynej32013
They look into everything, they're the military, but they never made a titanium submarine as you said.
The Russians did though, the deep-diving Alfas.
that plane was built 60 Years ago! and it still looks like a spaceship from the future 😨 lightyears ahead of anything i think she could've showed some pictures...
Probably accounted for a myriad of UFO sightings back in the day, I'm sure in the mid 60's most everyone who'd look up in the sky and catch a glimpse of something like that, especially from a distance and at an angle, would start having thoughts of little green men.
I read once where a couple of CIA employees said that the best cover story is a UFO sighting, among other reasons it worked to their advantage is they don't have to initiate it, people take care of that all on their own.
@@dukecraig2402 - No.... They would bunch into a crowd, look up , point & say; "Look up in the sky! is a bird, its a plane, its Awesome & SUPERCOOL!"
- & believe me I've seen it take off at the Oshkosh Air Show in Wisconsin. And I got goosebumps watching it rise up from the tree line & rumble into the air.
- I've seem the Concord, 747, & dozens of diferent types of fighter jets take off @ the same one block distance & nothing can compare.
Love your content! Pro tip: Your microphone keeps peaking and it’s pretty harsh (at least listening with earbuds). The microphone sensitivity could probably come down at least 6db to 12db depending on your unit. I set my Sennheiser wireless transmitter and receiver sensitivity between -18db and -24db. I then adjust my audio levels on the camera with a target peak range of -12db. 👍🏻
I was TOTALLY wondering as the video was starting, if and when Mr. Pete was going to make an appearance!! 😂🤣😂
Thank you, Amy. As usual, your information is thorough while being entertaining. Hopefully we won’t have too long to wait for the final episode! 😉
I was an USAF structural specialist in the late 90’s. And later owed a BMX store named “Dirtworks”... an obviously homage to this program. Thank you for your work.
Thanks for the biography.
Amy's videos provide better quality content than anywhere else. She's eloquent and presents a clear explanation of the facts while making everything so interesting. The Vintage Space channel needs to be syndicated on the Discovery Channel or on mainstream TV. I always make sure to give her videos a smashing LIKE and thumbs up. Everyone needs to remember to give her credit for all her impeccable work.
And corrupted out of the quality you speak of? No thanks! Just subscribe to her Patreon to help keep new content coming. :)
She’s beautiful 😍
Thanks Amy, for helping an old man relive the 'good ol' days.'
Renaming it Area 51 really took the shine off it. If they stuck with the old, friendlier names i cant imgine many people would know of it now
Groom Lake sounds pretty innocuous to me... 😈
It was numbered between Area 50 and Area 52. I doubt you have heard of those... Groom Lake tells you exactly where it is.
@ Alan Gibson
On the US Geological Survey or something like that. Public domain for a long time and it can’t really remain secret if it’s cordoned off from the public. It becomes the Streisand Effect. The more restrictive it is, the more people are curious, the more publicity it gets. People who would have never known about it now know.
Hidden in plain sight is a better method. In WWII, the US Manhattan Project was carried out in compounds and bunkers and facilities with better security than Fort Knox. It was completely penetrated by Soviet agents.
The British had Ultra. Ultra was for Ultra Secret.. above Top Secret, which was their code breaking work on the German Enigma machine. Part of it took place in a plain Nissen hut with a single guard in front of it. There was no way that the program that was the most vital (according to Gen Eisenhower) to winning the war should have such lax security. But it worked.. and thanks to the British Double Cross system not only did German agents never penetrate it... but the agents they sent that weren’t killed were turned to give the Nazis misinformation that belied the successes of Ultra.
@@calvinnickel9995 They should have named it something ominous and inhospitable..... like Death Valley! 😁
This was so well prepared and so we'll put together. Fantastic narration as well. Great work all around!
I love the content and appreciate the amount of research you do!
Good coverage of the history, I appreciate the thoroughness Amy!
Awesome job Amy! Greatly enjoying this series, I'm learning a lot about history. Thank you so much!
Great work Amy, looking forward to the next installment!
Superb work as usual. Thanks Amy.
Yours is by far the best airspace history channel on CZcams. You do an amazing amount of research.
Curious Droid is pretty good as well
Another awesome video! Keep up the great work Amy! Well done!!
Fantastic series Amy. Incredible amount of detail and ‘joining the dots’ between the various development programs. Thanks
I really dig this new long format you're doing. It gets me excited like when a new episode of Hardcore History comes out.
I have no idea who does the editing for these.....but they truly deserve an Oscar! Outstanding!
Glad I found your channel! Great content. Been a fan since Pluto in a minute vids.
Thanks for the Great video Amy! We love you! 😊
Your excellent work is appreciated! Thank you
History well told, in great depth, and definitely worth the wait; And allowing the content facts to tell their own story respectfully even if it requires another video to do so is why I'm looking forward to the next one. Keep up the good work.... And, as usual, those bangs look great👍🙂
I love your channel. I have so little knowledge of the '50s and '60s, and you present the information in a fun and enjoyable format. Also, love your outfits you wear they are wonderful.
Alaways a joy to watch your videos amy.
A thoroughly researched piece (as usual Amy) on my favorite plane. Can't wait for part 2. Best regards from Montreal!
Nothing quite like listening to a (charming and attractive) Canadian gal deliver a seriously detailed explanation of a United States Cold War spy-plane program as I drink British Gin right before bedtime. Maybe The Future isn't so bad after all? I wish you all the luck in the world, Amy- and continued success in the acquisition of choice historical information and vintage space artifacts as you move forward.
As always Amy, great video with amazing details.
Thanks for that great information. I grew up near Beale AFB and saw the U2 and SR71 flying overhead a lot. 2 of my fellow students in school had father's that were SR71 pilots and 1 student who's father was a U2 pilot. On several occasions someone from the base would come out and talk to the whole school about different things pertaining to aeronautics, that was always fun. Once we were invited out to Beale to watch the SR71 take off in flight. That was so cool to see, especially when you're young.
Wow this was a long one. You put a lot of work into this and it shows. Nice job.
Really enjoyed this one Amy ... can’t wait for part 2
Just stumbled across your channel.
Great content, love it.
To this day , there are no air-breathing ( maned ) a/c that can fly as fast as the A-12 / Sr-71 family ...obsolete ..Never...!
Well put.
What the US Navy has been cooking since (on paper) 2017 has it beat.
It doesn't breathe ,though.
Only obsolete due to the advancements in missile...
Missiles are now rated at mach 8 and next class expected Mach 20...
I am amazed at sr71 and could not understand the decommissioning in late 90's. I now believe they grounded it because they knew that missile technology advanced to a point they could be easilly be taken down...???
Surface ships have now became floating coffins in my opinion... Mach 5 = 1 mile per second. With a horizon at sea being 29 miles, if 5 missiles came over the horizon you only have 29 seconds at mach 5. At mach 8 17 seconds...
China only has 1 crappy carrier because they know they are now useless...
Navy Veteran
@@raywagner6569 US10144532B2
They've ben flying it for ,almost, 3 years ...that I know of.
Except for Aurora.
No, they really are obsolete. To this day there are no ships with the armour of a battleship, that didn't stop them becoming useless.
Outstanding. 100% pure information 0% filler.
Brilliant vid. Amy - as informative and knowledgeable as ever. Bravo!
You always put out great content Thank you Amy
I like your videos. They're so well-researched, and well-presented!
Awesome upload !! Thanks Amy 👍👍
Good job on presenting and digging into history
Fascinating video, Amy has a fantastic way of getting the detail of a subject. 👍👍👍
Thanks to you, I'm watching more History Channel. Love those documentaries that you do!
Found your page through kaizo mario on twitch, glad I did... great video. Very informative
Great video again. I love you Amy. Keep up the great work.
Love your videos, very tasteful and concise, good comunication and content. Perfect👌👍
A couple of comments: First, excellent presentation. Second, the internal program on the U-2 with the various anti-radar coatings and configurations was referred to as 'Dirty Bird'. The U-2 Seiker was testing when he crashed was Article 341, which was the first U-2 built. And third, it was discussed that initial pilot selection for the A-12 would come from the ranks of the existing agency U-2 pilots, but it was rejected because the agency was still operating the U-2 (until 1974) and that they knew too much. This lead to discussions about replacing all existing agency U-2 pilots, which was rejected.
The A-12 & SR-71 were the beginning of Stealth Tech. Both aircraft are shaped the way they are for Speed but also for Stealth characteristics. And the A-12 was not already obsolete when built. It was a highly productive program and aircraft considering what was learned during its development and test flights
Always amazing content!
Great info Amy, keep it up!!
great video, learned a lot, very entertaining and full of the dollar details.
You are really amazing, i can understand everything even if i'm italian and the channel made me even more passionate, you really find the right spot being very detailed and clear, i really appreciate your job thank you very much
Can't wait for the next video. This one is so good I can't even.
Glad you didn't give up on the channel :)
Great to see you back xxx
Holy shit! Just saw you on The Apollo Chronicles on Amazon. I love your work! So proud!
Well researched, well written, well delivered. Thank you for the interesting and informative video.
31:17 **YF-12*
*Y* denotes prototYpe aircraft
*F* denotes Fighter aircraft
Y is for service testing. X is for experimental. There is no designator for prototype.
Lots of planes of the era were designed using the Cook-Craigie method where no hand-built prototypes were made. It was all done on production tooling with interchangeable parts.
The A-12, D-21, YF-12, and SR-71 were all hand built due to the extremely low production numbers.. so essentially all ‘prototypes’. This was especially apparent in their high incremental production and direct operating costs in comparison to other Mach 3 planes like the XB-70 (which was made to be mass produced) and the Mig-25.
Good stuff Amy. I just finished “Skunkworks” so this topic is fresh in my mind.
Excellent historyvid looking forward to the next vintage installment.
Another great and informative video
Thank you Amy👍
Hi Amy, love you videos , it’s a subject that I’ve always been interested in, but it’s difficult to find people who share the same passion. I’ve just read your book “breaking the chains of gravity “ great work as always, a good read, thanks.
Amy. … Nooooooo! That plane was the fastest, bestest, sleekest heart pounding thing we had. It outran airplanes, missiles, bullets and bad office rumors. It was this thing of which stories will forever be told about with great swagger. It was the basis for so many sonic booms, near misses, and zippy hair rising confrontations that we are glued to our computer screens. Who cares how much it cost or how long it took to get it in the air? Who cares if it was an awful shade of black, sitting in a puddle of its own leaked fuel. But man could it fly! And WE had it. Nobody else did. Go easy on it Amy and pass me a tissue.
So did the Mig 25.
When outfitted and operated for reconnaissance even the Israelis couldn’t shoot it down.
@@Bartonovich52
Mig 25 wasn't near as fast
It was near as fast.
It clocked Mach 3.2 over the Sinai.
And before you say that “it melted its engines” just remember that it made it back to base under its own power and likely had both engines changed inside of 24 hours.
Not like the SR-71 that force landed in Sweden and they had to take an entire wing off to change one engine.
And no, the SR-71 did not go Mach 4 or Mach 5. It operated well past what would have been considered redline for a series built interceptor like the Mig-25. Even with less than 20% of its total flight hours above Mach 3.. the SR-71 needed a week of maintenance between flights and a NASA style countdown to fly. It couldn’t ever sit hot-and-ready on a hard stand for a two minute scramble like the Mig-25.
Americans love to throw around potential. Thing like “we could tell you, but then we’d have to kill you” or “we will neither confirm nor deny”. Do you know what that means? It means precisely Jack. They say that the SR-71 could go faster than it’s published redline of Mach 3.3.. but not how much faster. Fanboys think it’s so much faster but for a plane that’s already on borrowed time every time it goes above Mach 3.. maybe it went Mach 3.35 once and never again.
Besides, the Mig-25 has the absolute altitude record for a ground launched air breathing aircraft. Over 40,000 feet higher than the SR-71.
And the Soviet Union wasted so much money building an aircraft to combat a threat that didn’t exist. High altitude Mach 3 capable bombers. XB-70. We didn’t build its Mach 3 high altitude interceptor either. F-108. It was just enough to build the 2 XB70 prototypes to get you to commit. Beautiful strategy 🙂
You continue to impress me with your knowledge and research skills. You ignite my interest in this era as well. Thank you.
Another great video. I love this series.
Wonderfully done!
Great presentation, energetic and informative. 👍
Can't wait for the next episode!
Love ALL your content Amy!😉🍀
Amy,
There is so much misinformation surrounding these aircraft in aviation lore, especially on the internet. So glad to see one of your detailed, deep dives, into these iconic jets. I for one had no idea how incredibly expensive they were. The inflation conversions are both shocking, and poignant. Thanks for putting in the time.
Now I, have a trailer to watch... ;-)
Peace and Love,
j
Thank you for a fantastic video!
OMG how did I miss this?! Curse you youtube!
Thanks for the amazing video, Amy!
Thank you Amy. My father was an engineer at P&W during this time period. He also went on a trip to USSR in 1962.
a site seeing tour?
Very impressed at your delivery Amy. Quite a bit of information. The two sites that I look at are yours and Everyday astronaut.
Keep up the good work.
Can hardly wait for part 2.
The Convair Kingfish was an AMAZING concept. If Convair hadn’t had so many issues with the B-58, the CIA/USAF would have given that design a lot more consideration. Longer range, lower RCS, and a cruising speed of Mach 3.2 in its earliest configurations, all from designs made with slide rules and drafting tables.
Lockheed was still the better choice, but Kingfish was an incredible (and badass looking) airplane. First designed over 60 years ago and it still looks like it’s from 60 years in the future.
Fantastic overview
Good to see you again :)
Phew Bimey, and the content was awesome :)
"Invisible/invincible". Nice writing touches make me smile. That and aviation geekery.
I really enjoyed this video. I find all this stuff quite interesting.
"But The CIA Disagreed" 😂
Great work, and thank you for making this! The A-12 and SR-71 seem crazier and crazier the more I learn about them. 🤯
Amy talking about my favorite plane?! YES PLEASE!!
Awesome, as usual. thank you
Amy keep up the films. 👍👍👍 love them
What an amazing story. Well researched and a fantastic presentation!. I know just enough about the Cold War, the SR-71 and the cast of characters from the CIA to see how accurate the story you're telling is. One thing I might have missed (hopefully it's not a spoiler from the next segment) is how Lockheed finally obtained the quantities of titanium that were needed for production.
Definitely subscribing to your channel.