Maokai's Rework: Was The Old One Better? | League of Legends
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 09. 2023
- ~SPONSOR~ Thanks to Bespoke Post for sponsoring this video! New subscribers get 20% off their first box of awesome - go to bespokepost.com/vars20 and enter code VARS20 at checkout.
Maokai used to be a staple tank top laner thanks to having arguably the best combination of damage, durability and control. Following his rework he has since been more of a jungler and a support. For today's Rework Retrospective I wanted to talk about his old and new versions to see which one was the better choice.
League of Legends Rework Retrospective Playlist: bit.ly/3yWdMsZ
Check out my Genshin Impact channel! bit.ly/3HQN9ud
Check out my Smash Bros channel! bit.ly/3rlFD3Z
Support me on Patreon! bit.ly/3iy5pvu
Donate to the channel! bit.ly/36TpIQP
~Editor (MeadowEdits)~
Twitter: / meadowedits
~Contact Links~
Facebook: bit.ly/3lGV9Vg
Twitter: bit.ly/3kv7CZU
Discord: bit.ly/33M2iev
Twitch: bit.ly/2XNes31
Candle.gg: bit.ly/3ndfU9r
Non business email: varsverum@gmail.com
Business email: vars@mythictalent.com
Graphics provided by: / tofugraphics
#LoL #Maokai #leagueoflegends - Hry
~SPONSOR~ New Bespoke Post subscribers get 20% off their first box of awesome - go to bespokepost.com/vars20 and enter code VARS20 at checkout. Thanks to Bespoke Post for sponsoring!
does the box have level 2 ohio skibidy toilet kai cenat grimace shake rizz gyat?
I think the problem with tanks like Maokai is that Riot started killing the warden class, by turning these protective tanks into engaging tanks (vanguards). This happened to Maokai, Alistar, Galio, Tahm Kench, and even Nunu, who excelled at peeling and providing buffs more than initiating.
Galio and TK are still more wardens than anything else.
@Billy_Agnes yeah but people could straight up smash your face with them so no need to protect
@@Billy_Agnes But not on the same scale. Old Galio provided shields and heals to his allies, which has now been moved to his ult, while his old ult's taunt has been moved to a basic ability. He also doesnt speed up allies with his gust to get them out of unfavorable situations. Plus his new ult has an extremely long cooldown, and is nowhere near as protective as Shen's ult in most scenarios.
Tahm Kench swallowing his allies was also moved to his ult, so its a one time peel he can do, whereas before he was such a cockblock champ denying hard engagers like Leona from getting kills in lane
@@Billy_Agneshe could eat and save the carry 2+ times per fight, as it was his W instead of R
They did rework Tahn EXACTLY because of this skill
@@aaronarjona7152unless your the 10/0/25 xerath support then it's fun xd
This makes me think of how aesthetically and functionally speaking, I actually preferred the LeBlanc rework they tried. Her global clone thing was broken, but it made me realize LeBlanc could be WAY cooler. Currently she just doesn't...do anything. She throws some "magic" at you and dashes into your face. Isn't she supposed to be a trickster and master manipulator? Instead we get a football player.
the failed leblanc rework is a prime example of great concept terrible execution. it was great that they added a delay before she can unleash burst but the delay was just..... too much. in league, 1.5 seconds is simply too long for someone whose role is an AP burst assassin. if the timer for sigil's activation was lowered 1 second or 0.75 let's say, there's a chance the rework wouldn't have been reverted. it was a cool rework, shame that it failed
@@lillyie I played a lot of leblanc prior to the rework and even after it. I genuinely miss the reworked LeBlanc. I like how they changed her from just a very lame assassin into something else entirely. It wasnt good and ended up being toxic for the game, but I agree that the reduction of the activation would have been amazing, obviously after nerfing her else to balance it. I loved that rework, unlike Aatrox rework. Bring my homie back.
@@lillyie That wasn't the problem.
Problem was that she had huge AoE burst wave clear on demand on champion who is balanced about having terrible wave clear.
@@walkelftexasrangerthis is the dumbest take I’ve ever seen. There are so many other champs EVEN ASSASSINS with incredible wave clear. At least Leblanc needed to proc her sigil to wave clear while others don’t
@@eli2210yeah but compared to le blanc other assasins have to go into a line off fire to waveclear she doesnt have to meaning that she as an champion ends up playing much safer
Old Maokai was my favorite champion by far. He was one of the most effective tanks, even bordering on AP bruiser that I have ever played. I miss the old ult ao much. New Mao ult just doesn't hit the same way the old one did.
The new ult just feels like it isnt doing much half the time. I get its power has to be restrictive because of the massive root it CAN have, but that requires hitting it at max range which is really difficult to do with such a slow skillshot that can be body blocked. Despite the range and size of it it just feels underwhelming.
and his past photo way better either
Sooo they nerfed Maokai's saplings because they gave vision and dealt damage while being untargetable while Shaco's boxes do the same but are invisible and fear everyone around them.
Terrible comparison. Maokai can place saplings from RANGED while being a tank. Shaco can only place boxes basically in melee range and is an assassin. Shaco can't safely gain blind vision control unless he dedicates his only mobility skill which he needs to fulfill his role as an assassin.
@@TiMEbeatsNoW It's not so much what they need to do to place the trap down, but more the concept. They have different ways of using their own traps, not gonna lie, which fuels their different playstyles. Shaco is hard to catch. The ONLY way your point happens is if someone is deleberately hide in the Bush to hide and catch Shaco, which can ONLY happen if Shaco is obvious of where he is. Sorry for the bad English, it's not my first language
@@Gabriel_custodio195 they nerfed for some reasons :
- First, you can’t cancel maokai sappling. You can use oracle lens or a ward using true sight, you won’t kill the sapplings.
Second, the damage were too good. And if you played like last 2 season, you would remember when his %damage were on his E. So you just put 6 E on a bush and trap it to One Shot.
@@jeanbaptistesaillet5011 I know I'm not the most knowledgable person on this subject, I am just saying that right now, Maokai's E seems to be kinda underwhelming when compared to other "traps". It is completely avoidable and is damage and a slow in a strategic location (bushes). It can't be disabled by Oracle lens because it isn't a trap in the context of how those work.
@@Gabriel_custodio195 with your logic. caitlyn W is underwhelming because it is completely avoidable and since it cant be disabled by oracles, it's not considered a trap
i wish they give maokai the zac treatment of keeping the new reworked abilities but reverting to the old ultimate. the old one has more use in teamfights as it actually allows maokai to deal damage rather than just being a drain tank. the current one, despite the midscope changes, still feels awkward to use and enemies can just run away from it, made easier with all the mobility in this game
old mao kai slapped so much better in 1 v 1 and team fights more fun in aswell
i miss old maokai.. never played him before rework.. my first main.. my first otp.. my first godlike.. when I learned his rework.. i was sad.. it looks so much more fun on paper..
A weird point that sometimes gets missed is that Maokai’s old ult didn’t USED to be centered on him. It actually worked similar to Anivia’s Blizzard for a while, where you could just drop it on a point. It made it really good for setting up choke points, or even allowing the area to persist if you had to hang back. Plus, like Amumu’s tears and Swain’s old ult, it would shut off if Maokai ran out of mana and/or died, allowing for some potentially spicy revenge kills
11:19 ah that reminds me of when everyone built runic bulwark. (Or so i was told i just started playing back then lol) That passive was lovely. I miss when being tanky was possible. Pre lethality. Good times 😌
9:00 , karthus wall give full vision if i remember correctly
As much as 3 wards next to eachother its kind of insane
Please do your review of the Shen Rework next.
which one? the one when they updated his abilities or the one when they removed ADAPTIVE HELM?! RIOT! COME ON! BRING BACK ADAPTIVE HELM!!!
He is also potentially going to get a mini rework soon, High elo shen mains are protesting rn so we might see something happen.@@curser63
@@curser63 nah, just build visage, FoN, mercury, and gargoyle, then get melted by cassio and brand anyway
@@Underworlder5 this is why I miss adaptive helm. those poisons and burns, man.
The music in the background for this video is the Final Fantasy brave exvius menu music. It's tranquil af.
Can you do a video about brand please ? I'd love to see your take on him being a pro pick for mid to a support
We need old maokai ult more now than ever before. Maybe we could have a teamfight last longer than 1.6 seconds.
The music of final fantasy EXVIUS is a cherry on the cake 🤌
Sapling move speed was made to increase with different boots. I'm not sure if that stayed the same after the change
Riot really hated aura based abilities/items by the end of a certain season, because it encouraged people to 'stick in groups'. Vengeful Maelstrom fell into the same category and got the gut. Older players may also remember things like Will of the Ancients, Runic Bulwark; they all rewarded teamplay and less of small skirmishes and 1v1s.
The only thing they allowed are aura based debuffs, things like Frozen Heart and Abyssal Mask which remained today.
I'm a M7 Maokai main and I played him for several seasons, he had a sole weakness of weak mana regen which kept him under control. It was role metas and items that made him had peaks. He's currently 'not so good' across all roles except jungle, even support got him gutted a bit due to top laners abusing Evenshroud (which got nerfed).
Funny cause grouping is all you do after lane
It present an unnecessary conundrum : do you stick close to your team to enjoy the benefits of auras but at the same time risk getting hit by Brand R, Kennen R, Zyra R, and many other wombo combo super ultimate?
@@fanficologist6621 if anything it made the game more interesting. There was counterplay to aura based abilities or items cause the enemy could just pick a lot of AOE ultimates. And it made for some interesting choices.
@@fanficologist6621 I don't think I've ever before seen someone portray decision making in a videogame as 'unnecessary conundrums'. wild
@@VenoMantis your point being?
I miss my old tree man :( my favorite team fighter. Popping his ulti in the middle of a team fight always felt so freaking impactful. He was my 1st tank and played the man in all roles just such a fun champ.
The nostalgic whiplash of seeing a rengar ult in front of you and go invis.... 5:04
You should make another video like this with Swain. Currently he feels more like a counterpick to tanks than a real mage. I believe his E takes too much powerbudget from what could've been more "battlemage" aspects of his kit, like more damage on R , and more DPS overall. His basic abilities are so badly designed though at this point he would need a CGU if E would be reworked.
👁️👄👁️
ya new swain is an L.
Vars, I need an answer. Have you (or your editor) played Final Fantasy Brave EXVIUS? If so, thank you for using the menu music in your video. I played the game for years and this video sparked so many memories for me. Thank you so much for that!!
Old Maokai was maybe my favorite tank in the history of the game, and back when I used to be a jungle main and bruisers/tank were my favorite classes to play, he was one of my go to champions
Fun fact, gangplank's barrels still give vision when they explode actually!
Hey Vars, what's the music you used in the intro and the sponsor section please? Great video as always!
Don't forget, 20% reduction is better than the equivalent of armor/mr because it doesn't get reduced by pen, such as cleaver which from what I understand was a frequent buy back then
Gotta love how Maokai became one of the most oppressive tanks in ARAM, right up there with Leona in my opinion.
Thank you legends of runeterra for sponsoring the exhaust icon
i know this has nothing to do with maokai or the video in question. but ive been watching your videos for a while. and i love most if not all the music you play in them. any place i should go for the music you go? or do you have a link to a playlist. ill love you forever
This guy has such a calming voice I love it
The initial damage on the old sappling was great for safe farming too, that was one of the biggest nerfs he got back in the day
"Unconditional so long as you stand in the zone..."
What an oxymoron considering how many champions love clumped up enemies or can force you out of an area both in the past an today. Not to mention with his past combo, it usually land him in the middle of the enemy team or at least straight smack in the middle of their frontline and far away from his actual backline.
Kindred wolf grants vision if middle is cast inside a bush
I wasn't around to play with his ult for long, but I remember it being super fun, and I wish I got the chance to play back when it was spawned at a set location, which sounds to fun. New mao ult is find but I would prefer old ult.
I miss playing the new maokai as a support. He practically made it ungankable bot lane, at least surprise gank. You can ward both yours and opponent's tribush, the river bush, and jungle entrance bush. With the jungler getting punished for trying.
I have nothing much to say about Maokai except I like the visuals of his saplings post rework.
Galio video when
I miss old maokai so much he was the first champion I ever saved up for to buy in league and i miss his old iteration
is that final fantasy brave exvius music??? got a flashback there 😳
I would love to see a video about the udyr rework🙏
top tier music choices btw lol
Is that really what exhaust looks like zoomed in!? 😮
As someone who has played both versions, old maokai was more straight forward. You pop your ult, throw a sapling, twisted advance, then punt the enemy back towards your allies with arcane smash. It was like playing a more tanky leesin with more limited range. His sap magic made it so he could potentially stay longer in a fight as both teams would be throwing out spells like crazy. The old version also helped distinguish his role better from Zyra, as they are both plant based champions.
The reworked version made him more into a support control mage that feels like an off-brand Zyra. His reworked ultimate, Nature's Grasp, just feels like a wider yet weaker version of Zyra's Grasping Roots. As like another commentor has stated, you can just body block the aoe, so if the enemy tank just gets rooted first, then all of the teammates of the enemy tank that were hiding behind them don't get rooted. For an "ultimate" ability, it feels lame.
I played a lot of Maokai before and after rework and I personally find his new ult more fun to use
I enjoy the modern control-based playstyle, but I do miss his old ult. His current ult has great potential, but I find it hard to get consistent value out of it. What I will say about his old ult (also old Tarics) is that it's hard to make it *feel* like it's doing something. When an ability adjusts numbers as the primary function, it doesn't feel like it's doing much unless the numbers are way too overtuned. I think that's part of why Riot has pushed away from these type of effects. It's also why items that provide damage/mitigation keep track of the numbers for you. They need to show you how much the item is doing for you to make you feel justified in your purchase.
Any time I think about old Maokai I think about the LEGALIZE CRYSTAL WEED video of full AP Mao ("MLG Jungle Maokai Guide 420") and it takes me back to a better time of League
I would like the old ult to return in some way it was probably one of my fav abilities in the game
"only construct granting full ward vision" depends on what you classify Ori's orb as.
Correction about the damage reduction: Due to the way armor and magic resist influence damage taken, 20% damage reduction does not mean 25% bonus resistances, it changes depending on your resistances. If you have 100 armor/mr, 20% damage reduction os the equivalent of giving you extra 50 armor/mr (50% bonus). If you have 150 armor/mr, 20% damage reduction is equel to another 62.5 armor/mr (~42% bonus) which is a lot more valuable than just 25% bonus.
I am not a very old player, but I really enjoy the modern Maokai, one of my favorite champions, and since the time he's able to jungle i can play him in my main role which is amazing
Man. Poppy's og splash art was scary.
That exvius menu music be hitting hard. Loved that game, too bad the powercreep completely destroyed it.
You could make a video about the removed runes like colossus, as a main tank I miss that one xD It was so broken...
afaik the only thing that was kinda broken about pre rework maokai was his w cast range was really huge, like 600 range, they made it so u could actually kite maokais engage unless he flashes on u now, all in all tho old maokai was 1 of my favourites.
Reworked him right after the season reward skin i believe
OLD MAOKIA, POPPY AND FIORA are insane
Miss the old ult, balance the heck out of it, but it was fun to play with and gives your team a conditions
The Maokai trework got me good
Funny enough, in WR, J4’s ult currently has enemy damage reduction, y’know, Maokai’s ult
Does anyone know the background song cause like I know but I can’t remember
I would of loved old maokai if I got to play him I think. I mean when they buffed his q to do max health damage he was funny to use in some fights. I mean in urf he is a real bastard of a champ as the root dodge slash pursuit move plus q bouncing peeps around while doing some legit damage made him so good.
i love playing current maokai in top lane he spooks squishy damage carries with his damage
Battle tree does feel more intuitive
This literally coulda been a 3 second video where you just say, "Yes." :P
Every champion has a gimmick and combo that is crucial to their playstyle. Maokai's old ultimate was helpful for himself and his team. The engage from the W along with his E helps CC the enemy long enough for his OLD ultimate to be utilize, especially since it had reduce damage for both himself, and his teammates. His Q was also important to help push off any advances towards his team. The current ultimate is still good, but I feel as if the champion itself relies on items and runes to be more tankier, rather than a tank having built-in passivcs like Rammus or Galio.
I'll always miss the old maokai ult, yeah it wasn't great but then they made it move WITH maokai and it was insane
i like both versions of his kit, but damn if i don't miss the immediate damage of his sapling toss.
all in all i think his current version fits a lot better into modern-day league. not sure i'd want to play against his old ultimate in the game's current incarnation...
Don't tell rito, but Orianna's ball provides vision if thrown into a bush.
old version of passive was nuts with soul shourd
i absolutely loved old maokai despite not having much experience with it. he just felt so complete and felt like the true tank version of garen(who's more like a juggernaut) where he was idiot proof. you could button mash and hed still be effective. maybe thats the problem but simple champions still exist today so ill always be sad that old maokai is now forever lost
maokai is great jungler and good counter supp/top after they buffed Rs speed
his R is wide but its still a skillshot and its not just a click like his old or Renekton/nasus R
+ tank and carry at the same tank is very broken like look ksante
I did miss old Maokai. I like new Maokai, but it's something about old maokai that felt right.
Also,
Why no one/everyone plays pantheon, when?
im ok with new maokia but i do want his old ult to come back. it dosnt have to be on him but some one should get it
Love the FFBE lobby music
i remember i left League for some years i came back played maokai totally fed the kit had changed i had no idea still till this day ill never get over this or galio rework Rip 2 of the greatest old kits
As a low elo player, New Maokai as a jungle works.
He was one of the 10 champions I had when I was first getting into league. So many times no one would stand in my damn Maelstrom!
Now that ultimate setup for a good gank, or to help my team make an escape after collecting a objective is great. Since these days it seems to be all about kiting and bursting
This. I started playing in 2012 and I picked up Maokai because he looked cool. As a newbie with no concept of teamfights, activating the maelstrom in the correct place was difficult and frustrating. The updated version of that ult was more usable, but they decreased the damage output.
Nature's grasp is nice, but relatively avoidable if you see it coming. Bronze players don't usually know to follow the ult into a teamfight, so it ends up getting wasted about half the time.
They should literally bring maokais ult back, i used to play him
i miss old urgot and aatrox i loved them
Well. Maokai certainly had a TREEwork
Regardless of which is better. Maokai has been in my champ pool since season 5 and I still find him immensely satisfying to play at times. The champion is really fun and satisfying to lock someone down and kick their ass XD
Except....for one big problem: current maokai does not offer damage reduction anymore. This really changed his supporting capabilities and difficulty in peeling off tons of damage aoe comps
Funny enough tanks have fallen to the wayside because of how much damage and pen items are in the game now. Short of ornn, nearly every tank in the game is too squishy in the mid game when most of the important plays are happening to really do the job they were meant to do. Maokais old ult would actually fit the current meta a lot more to help off set the extreme burst nature of the game currently that even riot is fully aware of and are looking into how to fix. TTK is just too short in the game right now.
I'm just a fan of tank abilities that let me soak damage and dish it back (RIP Old Galio Ult)
Riot should realize echo characters like smash brosh but in this case you can choose the champ before the rework
Oh I do miss old maokai, yeah I dont mind the new one but old one more fun, but of all the reworks the one I hate the most is Galio, I absolutely hate the new one, old one was way more fun ugh miss the old champs, my swainnnnnn
make one of this for morde. his job was not a rework, but a relaunch. we have nothing of the old morde
why did i only hear about maokai today??
The music always hits with you. first dynasty warriors now FFBE
💯🔥❤️😂
9:00 Karthus W
The amount of immersion you feel when you play Maokai (God-Emperor) in the Jungle (Natural habitat 🌳) is truly the most ecstatic I've ever felt in my life. When I Q the enemies in the wrong direction 😎😎 When I W the Akali and they dash to their back line and I get blasted 🤙🤙When I stack 5 E's in them bushes 💣💣 When my R is now fast as fuck and roots the whole enemy team 😭😭💪💪💧💧🍞🍞
So I've figured out the best way to enjoy this game
You boot it up and play it. Get a main, master it, check some guides, never get into ranked and once you start feeling frustrated with most of your games you quit League alltogether and just stick to watching vars and exil. to this day I'm the only person I know who can say their experience with league has been pretty positive
The Golden Rule of League Champs: If its legal in ARAM, it can get that K/D/A.
Dr. Mundo too but he didn't have cc.
As a fellow toplane main I definitely would love to see Maokai return back to his old ultimate and be a toplaner once more. Honestly feels like that was the more balanced version of the champ. And it's not like they would need to change much.
I think Maokai's rework main goal was adding variance to his kit. Old Maokai kit was extraordinarily consistent; his passive also charged from enemies meaning he also synergized with enemy skill spammers too, leading to him getting more sustain the more the enemy tries to his team; the landing damage in his E also made this skill free harass, because even if he missed he threw it right next to you so it's unlikely you could dodge the explosion (especially in the less mobile times); there was almost no way to use his old ultimate wrong, use it too late well you still prevented a lot of damage just not as much as possible, use it too early then the enemy backs off well you just prevented a team fight with one ability, it was extremely strong to use in a 1v1 that only got stronger in team fights. His skill floor was so high he could get away with countless mistakes and still preform well, but he still had so much potential to do more if he was played well. He was all reward and no risk.
So they when they changed his stills they made it so if you don't use his skills well Maokai won't have as much impact. The more you land your abilities the more you heal, you need to be proactive with his saplings and play around the brush or deal significantly less damage. His new ult can easily do nothing if used poorly, but has the potential to cause a lot of disruption. So they definitely succeeded in making his kit less reliable, but they definitely lost some cohesion in his overall play style and may have made his skills a little too easy to play around now.
They made his skills much to easy to play around now. If you're support, you cast ult and the enemy support just eats it for the ADC. In teamfights, everyone walks behind one person and you only hit one person. Max root duration is 2.6 seconds. Any tenacity and you're out of it in no time. Q's slow reduction, 99% for .25 seconds, makes it feel almost useless other than putting a big slow for a fraction of a second. You HAVE to land the knockup or it is pointless. Also, what wasn't mentioned in this video was your old W had about 200 more range. You out ranged opponents Flash, so flashing away didn't help you escape.
Old maokai ult seems like something people would 100% complain about
It was.
Maokai looks like a Battle Tank. Especially in skins like Haunted or Charred.
He's been changed into a Utility, CC Tank.
He's effective, but he feels wrong to me.
I remember when Maokai first came out, he was the 1st 6k IP champion i bought and i loved him, I havent played in a long time but i hate the new Maokai
Maokai is coming to wild rift on june 14
The old maokai art used to scare and intrigue me.
i liked old maokai. never really got into him after the rework