6 Reasons You Were Taught the Saxophone Wrong!
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- čas přidán 9. 04. 2018
- #bettersax #saxophone #saxophonelessons
Jay Metcalf gives an overview of some common things that saxophone players were taught incorrectly and some ways to improve music education.
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This guy makes so much sense it's painful...
yep......
Sure does, because don sinta, Larry teal, and londeix are a bunch of noise.🤨🤨 Classical saxophone is a great filter for those who want to master their instrument and those who want to master a type of music.
@@internetfellaguy12 yes, but for most jazz is what they want to learn
as a music teacher and sax player who learned in public school, this is 100% accurate
I've got to say that's the best explanation I've heard in 44 years of playing the sax. ;)
HAHAHAHA
"I'm not saying don't go to music school"
"If you have money and 5 or 6 years to kill, knock yourself out"
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I feel the same about engineering
That hit too close to home...
It's not the same.
Preach, brother, preach! You just echoed every single thought I had when I was a music major and studying classical music, while all I really wanted to learn was Cannonball, Bird, and Coltrane. I didn't finish my degree. They said I failed my junior level hearing because my vibrato was "too modern" and it hurt my feelings because I trying my best to really feel that Bach Cello Suite...
You got that right, Cousin! Okay, we probably aren't related but why not have a little fun? I actually learned more about Music in Junior College than I did when I transferred to a 4-year College. I did have a Music Scholarship ($900.00/year) but lost it because of a Recital. My Teacher demanded that I perform a transposed Bach Flute Concerto (can't remember which one, now) and it just never sounded right on the Alto Sax..... It was fun to play but just didn't sound right. Anyway, I changed music to Mussorgsky's "The Old Castle" (technically not all that difficult but pretty difficult to play musically). What was funny, the person to perform before me was a Flautist and she played the same Bach Flute Concerto that I was going to play! No matter how well I had done, it would have sounded pretty crappy. Yes, my Teacher knew about the change of music (he had approve the change). After the Recital, just about all my classmates told me how much they enjoyed my rendition of "The Old Castle" and, even, some of the other Teachers congratulated me.... up comes my Teacher and informed me (in front of everyone, it seemed) that I had lost the remainder of my scholarship because I refused to be a "team player". Never figured that one out.... Oh well, I essentially told him to pound sand and changed my major. Never regretted it!
@@harveyblankenship564 There's a video on here of two Japanese ladies playing a Bach harpsichord/flute sonata on piano and soprano sax. Could it be that one? They do a very good job.
@@IndigoJo Never saw it but will look for this. It's been so long (over 40 years) that I really don't recall the piece of music.
The thing is - a lot of times, music transposed from other instruments doesn't always sound well on the Sax.
Hear hear! The best teacher I had was a senior conservatory student. The most important thing he did was ask me, what did I want to learn? I wanted to learn how to improvise, so we did just that! He really showed me the real value of a good teacher.
Sam Thelusma 😊 I was a 22 year old student myself, so really way back. Mind you, I started playing at the local marching band age 14, and had a teacher that - with the best intentions no doubt - did exactly what Jay described in this video. I think this was one of the reasons I took a 7 year break from the sax (that and puberty off course 😏). But it really taught me to keep looking to find the best teacher you can find (and afford). Fortunately, we can have online lessons from great teachers like Jay these days. Cheers, Timo.
Sam Thelusma that’s it, all is not lost indeed 😊 “Just keep on blowing” was the note that Joshua Redman wrote in the cd sleeve of his cd that I bought from him. That, and try to find the best teacher you can find/afford either online or real life or both, this was an advice of Art Farmer in an interview with him that I read.
Buritis
what does this have to do with the video
I went to 7th grade instrumental music sign ups and said, "I want to play the drums" the Music director said you look like a trumpet player, so I played trumpet for 5 excruciating years got pretty good but never liked it. took private lessons on top of the school lessons. boring. In high school I started fooling around with drums, never took a lesson eventually went to college majored in Psychology, got myself a Ludwig set of orange pearl super classics. Played gigs for extra money, rubbed shoulders with great musicians. opened for Gladys Knight and the Pips, Stan Getz, Dave Brubeck, The Turtles, The Fith Edition, all at college concerts. Never had any "lessons", met Carter Thomas a young guitarist for the continuation of the Woody Herman band, played a lot of free jazz and blues. Graduated college got married, played in various cover bands, 4-5 nights a week, the Holiday inn circuit, Elvis impersonation bands, and my eventual love, Chicago style blues. Sat in with Otis rush, and other Chicago style blues men. That is how you learn your instrument if you have the drive and talent, (I was no great talent). Years later I had a dream about playing the sax. I said that sounds like fun, went down to the local music shop and all he had was a Conn student level Alto horn in need of some fixing, I bought it repaired it and taught myself how to play listening to albert Ayler and others. That's how you learn your instrument. Anyone can learn the basics from any book or teacher.
DEeMON holy crap opened for Brubeck your a legend man
@@liljuicebox5789 not a big deal. We were the local college band, and there was no one else on these tours, small college concerts, we got great exposure, and good experience as kids.
The same overhere. I entered the local fanfare-band wanting to play trombone. The director looked at me and decided I was a prototype tuba player. I was flabbergasted, because it had never occurred to me that I was.
Luckily I was to sit next to the bands baritone sax player and this really opened up my eyes (and ears for that matter).
It suddenly became very clear to me, that I was a prototype bari player and I luckily was able to make a career switch in the band within a short time.
End good all good ! ☺
I asked to play guitar. Nope sorry no can do in band. I quit.
@@ericolens3 It wasn't that a guitar wasn't available. There was one but the other high school student who had parents on the school board. Wealthy parents. I'm sure you can figure the rest out.
Since the days of the Catskills in New York state and the high school of performing arts- NYC many of my colleagues WHO pursued the lifetime career playing gigs are struggling financially today. I chose to become an elementary NYC school teacher, but I do have my own recording studio in my retirement having all the money I spend on recording equipment, including woodwinds, and digital wind controllers For me. - This was the best move. NO STRESS- No worries
So many jazz musicians, who took it upon themselves to dedicate their lives to the Art of jazz are all struggling today being replaced by digital technology yes, I had the Mark Vi tenors just like you. My old teacher, Arthur Levy, who worked with the NBC orchestra in his days always taught me whatever woodwind instruments you play practice it slowly because if you practice it fast you’ll learn to become a sloppy player and there’s no benefits to that. I always enjoy watching your videos. Just another Brooklyn guy!
Alan Russell. Professional Arranger since 1968.
getting classical chops will help you play any other style of music though
lots of high profile jazz sax guys recommend practicing classical
I’ve been practicing classical for 2+ school years, and I’m one of the best saxophone in my group, and I’m losing encouragement to keep playing. I just want to be able to learn jazz and not have to keep learning classical. I understand that classical is needed to move into other forms of music, but geez does it get boring after playing the same music 1000 times.
@@lystrixgaming9499 hey bud, that enthusiasm to learn Jazz is fantastic! Go out and start listening, learning, and discovering. The beauty of learning music is it's YOUR journey. I'd recommend getting a real book and start looking for standards you can play in it. As you improve you'll buff up both your classical playing and Jazz.
@@lystrixgaming9499 Quit that and start learning jazz from online classes or if you can find something similar or you will regret it for the rest of your life!
Aye thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it and will definitely take it. Cheers!
Wrong
There are lots of Saxophone learning channels on CZcams, but I think yours is the best.
You had me in stitches at hot cross buns !
That’s exactly it! The whole “Sally Scenario,” was spot on for my son. Started last year in 6th grade and 1 of just a handful that played at home.
He pretty much taught himself and this year is in advanced band before he even stepped foot in the school for the first time because of COVID.
I really like this point of view. I took lessons from a guy who had me practice scales, etudes and a piece of literature every week. However the scale exercises included jazz harmonies, the etudes were from books like "Patterns for Jazz Improvisation", and the literature included a Charlie Parker transcription and a jazz standard out of "The Real Book", which I would improvise on while he accompanied me on his Fender Rhodes. I loved my lessons and really progressed a lot with that teacher, and he was certainly using some of these principles.
You basically described my exact situation, my teacher is a clarinet player and she is very nice and she is helpful. She taught me half notes whole notes, ext. Which I never understood before I went there. Though I have yet to actually learn any songs. Instead I got myself a fingering chart and play music that interest me. I have learned 7 songs in about 2 months from just starting in not only Saxophone but really in music in general. I practice everyday and I think I’m doing pretty well, the teacher is just to correct me on what I’m doing wrong.
I love this! Completely agree. In fact, not allowing students to express their own creativity and interests by restricting their musical choices harms other instrumental education as well. Being forced to play uninspiring music is what led me to quit piano years ago. Started lessons again as an adult with a great teacher who asked me BEFORE the first lesson what I liked and wanted to learn. We jumped right into some blues!
I played the sax in college in the mid to late 90's. I fell out of the program, because I was disappointed in what we were all expected to perform, and then were not allowed or looked down upon...bottom line, YOU'RE 100% CORRECT! I recently, after a 23 yr hiatus, have purchased a new Yamaha YTS-62III and love revisiting the type of playing I wanted to pursue! I'm thrilled, my kids enjoy it, and damn right - I'm playing what I ENJOY!
I am a completely self-taught multi instrumentalist learning Saxophone currently after being inspired by a couple of bands that use Saxophone as sort of the lead guitar type of sound. I have been playing music full-time professionally for 13 years, started out the same way in elementary school and two high school playing in the school band and this is such an accurate depiction of what the modern curriculum for music is. I went to a performing arts Academy in eighth grade and that pretty much set everything in place for me to want to learn different instruments. I don’t know how to read music, it’s 100% by ear and just two weeks into Saxophone, I can play pretty much all of the pop songs that I’ve always loved along with some of the band that inspired me is melodies. Learn at your own pace, lessons are great if you’re taking them from the right people but online is way of the future!
I played alto sax from ages 10-16. I learned to read really well but no-one ever explained to me how to improvise. At a summer jazz camp, after 6 years of playing, I was told that my embouchure was alI wrong and that I had been biting down too hard on the mouthpiece and putting too much pressure on the reed. This completely threw my confidence as the instructor made no attempt to help rectify the situation and as a result of this, I took up the guitar and, now some 38 years later, I am only beginning to learn the basics of jazz improvisation .
I suppose some people just "get it"(improvising) by listening, but I find it shameful that, when I was most intensely interested in music, no-one explained to me what improvising actually was and that learning scales, arpeggios and what basic diatonic harmony was (and WHY) were a basis for improvising. These are basic ways ANYONE can learn to improvise and follow chord changes. The reality is, like most things in life, there just aren't many good teachers out there and it takes a lot of time and effort to find one. I still love music and continue to study but, looking back, I think it's such a shame that most of my teachers were pretty shit at teaching and, in fact, had no real interest in it. It was just another "paying gig" to them.
Right on Jay! Rocking the boat like this is exactly why I'm one of your online students. Keep up the great work.
Hi, this is so true, I agree with you 100%. This is exactly the path I have been going through in my music education. Basically, I've had to study classical saxophone in college for 2 years(which I hated) to access to the 1 year jazz program. Then, at university, it was pretty much the same. I've studied a bunch of ramdom stuff from counterpoint to baroque and classical for 2 years before really starting the program I was registered in, jazz performance. To my opinion, this makes no sense. I agree to the fact that as a musician, we should learn and have a basic knowledge of music in general but that takes to much place in music education. I make a living playing music for years now and I think I could have done my education with a private teacher and still be playing the way I play today. Great videos by the way!
Thanks Yanick, yeah I realized the same thing after finishing my masters degree. I could have used the money for private lessons with any teacher I wanted to learn from. If you don't get a teaching job and go into a career performing, the degree is not worth very much.
selftaugh tis an amazong way start out by learning technice getting it solid for bout a year then leave and be self taught youtube has too many resocureces google endless sources books just look at those and practice
I learned my jazz on my own.When I was a music major at Southwestern Oregon Community College in Coos Bay,Oregon,my professor taught us from a big band/jazz standpoint.
I'm in Chicago. We are LOADED with sax players. I still want that piece of paper. I love teaching anything i know about music. Hard to get a good player to make time to show you stuff.
They, like all musicians (lol) don't COMMIT.
I do know a great girl out here, Destiny. Never took a lesson.
Wonderful point, I’m a middle school alto sax player, and two years of being pushed into classical music with classical instrument players as a jazz instrument player is just so boring and repetitive, over all no fun at all.
This speaks to me on another level, I went to music school for two years and I play a few instruments and sing but my real passion was saxophone and jazz but as soon as I found out I couldn’t learn and utilize jazz in my studies I switched my major to vocal music education because I didn’t want a classical education on saxophone when I already had to do that for piano and voice lol if I had been able to study and have dedicated jazz studies I might’ve actually graduated with a degree but I eventually lost interest in school when I had to learn only the classical aspects that I had been studying my whole life so it’s nice to hear that an amazing musician such as yourself agrees with that sentiment
Oh man... this speaks to me. I'm 35 now. Like a lot of us, I started playing in 4th grade with band. Throughout I was regularly first chair in concert band, lead part in jazz band, qualified for state, and on and on. But, man, was I bored. By senior year of high school I just didn't care anymore and my playing slipped. I wasn't planning on doing music in college and nothing I was being exposed to did much for me. Then I discover 70s Prog and I'm hearing saxophones all over the place. Why didn't anyone show this to me? And why the hell can't I find anyone to play this stuff with? I would have thought I could find someone in college.
Well, 17 years later and I still pull the saxophone out occasionally. My embouchure is completely different from what I was taught as a kid -- a change for the better. I wish I was never told to get that awful Selmer C* mouthpiece with its square chamber. I wish someone had told me how bullshit fancy ligatures are or went over anything in regards to the physics of saxophones in general. So here I am, trying to play catch up.
Spot on video.
Thank you for this video!!! I stopped playing for 20 years because of a terrible experience in college. I loved the sax prior to that and the lack of instruction or misguided instruction completely burned me out. The best instruction I ever received was in private lessons from a late 70 year old big band player. I wish I could have just stayed with him. He taught me so much! This video let me know that I wasn't alone in this. Thank you!
Good info Jay. I started playing clarinet in 5th grade, got pneumonia and never went back. (really wanted to play sax but was moved to clarinet). Fast forward I'm 27 and pick up an alto, find a local jazz sax player and begin lessons. I studied with him about a year, then on my own. A fellow sax player showed me things (we have been friends since 1977). I later studied with a sax player who worked shows in Atlantic City for about a year. The rest of the time on my own, so there are some gaps in my knowledge of theory etc, but.... my point is each of these teachers helped me play what I wanted to play which was blues and rock and roll. I have been playing in cover bands for years, singing as well. I find my lack of theoretical knowledge hurts at times, and I am working on that (I still have A Ha moments). but I have said many times, I may not be the best player, but I have the most fun. Thankfully I have pretty good ears, though my fingers sometimes can't keep up (which is where tech exercises that we all hate, come in to play.) keep up the good work!
Wow! This makes me really appreciate my music school! I have SO SO SO SO MUCH liberties in my learning when it comes to lessons
I am a jazz sax player, and I have been teaching private sax lessons for a long time. I TOTALLY recommend learning how to play "Hot Cross Buns" before you learn "Confirmation"! Every player needs to learn proper breathing, tonguing, fingering, key signatures, etc. I think you made this video from the perspective of a frustrated student, without discussing how to actually help the student learn the craft.
Mark, yes there are a lot of frustrated students out there and this is for all of them.
Very well said.
Well. U Need inspiration and explanation. WHYarethesenotesIN the scale
Also WHY are they're Key changes also have a Burt CD all the different. Instruments individually so the kids actually know what they really shouldn't could sound like to be a professional like have the flute players listen to some really great Lines in solos in classical music, then give the other copy to the trumpet players of great trumpet players any genre it up to sax players show them a good recording of classical sex so they get the idea but then shot inspire them with the many different colors saxophones can provide that most of the wind instruments cannot but mostly show him what a really good sounds sound like in the technique they have
to look forward to
Thank you for giving me the confidence to buy my first sax and embark on a fun learning curve! Time for your free course and lots of listening and practice. I am 64 and am happy I do not have to learn classical style first. It was that fact that has held me back all these years.
Great, enjoy the course...
I learned the sax in the 50’s and played in school bands until I graduated from high school in ‘63. Then I quit. After 50+ years I bought an inexpensive sax ,a few books and fingering charts and with help from various internet sites, especially better sax, have begun playing again. Just for the fun of making music. Thanks!
Jay, you are spot on. In 1974 after 6yrs in the Military as a Bandsman I did a University Jazz course. They taught modes. The Tnr players were Coltrane clones and there was no study of the history and the development of various styles. I wanted to learn to play through changes (eg. "Body & Soul"). NO. It was "Blue Bossa" & the Dorian mode to the point of boredom. I don't have a degree & can't teach in the Educational system, but 3 Music teachers have come to me for Saxophone lessons. I'm still scratching my head over that. A degree would have been handy for a nice day job. Then again, I've had to play EVERYTHING to pay the rent & keep going. Busking (with my own backing tracks) has lead to bookings for private parties, Art Gallery openings etc. We can't sit & wait for the phone to ring...we have to make it happen. I will be 70 next birthday & am still playing because it is the most fun you can have standing up.I like your SOUND (& your attitude). You are doing good work. Best wishes to you,Deryck.
Thanks for re-inspiring me again into loving the sax. I wish there'll be more people like you running the music schools and teaching people like me who want to learn according to our vision in music. I'm much grateful for this reassurance! 😎
Kai, Thanks!
You Nailed it.
I'm 62 yrs old and for over 30 yrs I've been saying the education system in the US is very flawed. It is a time wasting, money making machine of very little value. I've often told folks with advanced degrees from some prestigious universities that, that piece of paper you got after graduating only tells me one thing: Your mom and Dad paid a helluva lot of money for you to party for 4 - 8 yrs. This is true in all fields of pursuit.
I can tell you are a real professional in all you do. Your sax playing, your ability to teach the sax, the presentation of your videos here on YT, all bear this out. How did you get to be a professional? No it wasn't that college education. You have the ability to think outside the box, which 99% of college grads do not have. When you can think outside the box coupled with decades of experience is what makes true professionals, no matter what field you are in.
I've watched several of your videos here on YT. I can tell you will be a good teacher and that's why I'm going to sign up for a few of your basic courses. I've been self taught on pretty much everything I know and do. But I need some good tips to get started back playing the sax. I played for 2 years in Jr high school and quit. I haven't picked up a sax in over 50 yrs. so I,'m starting over from scratch ( learning how to read music & fingerings on the sax). It's true, "If you don't use it you lose it". I like your approach. Keep up the good work and you will inspire many young folks to pursue the sax.
Thanks!
Your insights resonated with on multiple levels. Thank you for sharing and being true to the craft in assisting, teaching and inspiring others.
I love love love this video. You put into words everything my heart has been bursting to express!
Hi Jay - I just signed up for your freebie course, looks promising. I've been down the route you have - albeit 20 years earlier - and I can confirm that these 6 points were frequent talking points in the 1970s colleges, too. After reading all of the comments below, there seems to be the camp defending the traditional teaching methods. There are good points to be made there; throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a little too common. Knowing scales, modes, chord extensions, etc., are NOT necessary to become a good sax player - but all GREAT sax players use these concepts - IF they play in a field that benefits from them. Coming from the jazz end of things, I like tons of music theory, knowing WHY one scale works with which chord changes gives me more options. Putting a few esoteric scales into my sub-conscious (thru practice, practice, practice!) gives me tools I don't even need to think about mid-solo. It's like having a large spoken vocabulary; you don't need to use big words in every sentence but having a choice of words allows you to tell your story with style!
you have definetly earned me as a follower.......I have this dream since like forever, saxophone playing ( ....yeah , Candy Dulfer and so on...:) ...) but the way you present the situation feels like more to the heart.
this a goal to achieve for me this year : a saxophone and learning to play. Of course, this is just for me, for my own pleasure, for fun.
Thank you and keep on!
Your best video! I smiled all the while listening to your "reasons." You made constant, perfect sense!
Dave, Thanks so much. I put a lot of time into that one...
I have made a living playing and teaching saxophone for over 40 years. I didn't go to university as I got married at 20 and started playing in rock and R&B bands in the early 70s. While playing in those bands in Toronto, I studied privately with some of the best pro sax players in Toronto. I practiced hard and listened and lifted rock and jazz greats off records. This was the greatest education one can get. They greats never went to school, they invented it, on the stage and playing with each other. Something this younger generation doesn't understand, because of the opportunities we had, are almost none existent now. Great information about the lifelong pursuit. I found your video by constantly seeking out great players and how they teach, thus keeping my passion fresh for playing and teaching Thank you.
Robin, thanks for the support. I spent a lot of time in school, but the things I use everyday to get me through gigs, I learned on the bandstand and from the recordings.
Hi Jay! You hit the nail on the head with this video on all points. Back in the day when I was in 3rd grade we had a student instrument program. You enroll & rent the instrument for about $15, I started out on the flute, did well but didn’t enjoy it so I asked to try the saxophone. Funny thing was no saxophones were available so the instructor put me on the clarinet for a couple weeks explaining the finger techniques were similar to the saxophone. Being young I didn’t know but was frustrated, the instructor saw this. Anyway once I got my saxophone I was so happy I just wanted to play. But in order to play I had to follow the curriculum & 3 months later learned “Mary had a little lamb.” I was happy I learned it but was discouraged at the same time because it seemed we never got off the fundamentals, ie. reading music, writing it a little then playing it. Going through this discouraged me & I placed the saxophone down.. Never lost my desire for it!!
At age 20 I bought my first alto saxophone, Yamaha with a 4C mouthpiece, the model is a “YAS-23A” which is not made anymore. I occasionally played with it & shelved it for a bit here & there. Here I am 20 years later still wanting to learn to play this beautiful instrument by ear..
I’m happy I stumbled across your channel & I enrolled in your “PSBE”. I look forward to growing & being a student.
Thanks, Darryl
Darryl glad you found us...
Thank you for your refreshing insight and practical approach to teaching students who (like myself) just wanna get to playing music! My 'teacher' (so to speak) was Pete Fountain (I'm a clarinet player--trad jazz). No, I never met the man but could not get enough of his albums to play along with and emulate his style which is how I now play my gigs today. My sax side wants to emulate Boots Randolph. I learned to play by ear before I learned how to play notes (because the school said I had to learn da notes). My military musical career allowed me to learn more about jazz and spread my musical wings being in charge of my own military jazz bands. Today, am retired from military music but still love to play. My sis 'n law needs a sax player and asked me to come out and play w/her band in Aug. Excited and can't wait. Thank you for your VALUABLE VIDEOS to help me improve my sax playing. I am a follower and encourage others to do the same. Thanks.
Jay, absolutely accurate and on target!!! Described my early history with a band teacher who was not a sax player; nice person, but he was a complete waste of my time! I learned most of what I know through self-instruction, and being a gearhead. I bought all the reeds, multiple mouthpieces, a ton of boring instruction books, even buying all the brands/models of horns, and selling most at a loss. I made the Mark VI mistake you talked about in another video, but sold it at a large profit because most people have to learn that most of them are old, beat, and don’t tune well the hard way, same as me! Too bad ... So when I found your Better Sax Pentatonic program, I started to learn quickly! Thanks for your honesty and hard work to make your training videos the best available!!! Rocket T 🚀
You have no idea how much you have inspired me and you are so right. I just got my alto sax one day ago having never picked one up in my life. I have played church organ and played a coronet back in 8th grade. I'm 66 years old now and retired. I want to learn how to play the sax. I feel more confident now after listening to you. I'm spending the first few days with just the mouthpiece and the neck...learning my embraucher (or however you spell it!) I figure that has to be the core of a good sax player. After I have mastered that I will learn to key it. Thank you very much for this video!
Great to hear! You can do it.
You nailed it. This was my experience getting my music degree. Fast forward 20 years and I’m learning more from videos like yours.
I think there's going to be a bright future full of young musicians who learned a lot from the internet.
I’d like to thank you for all your effort. Love all info your giving us and especially the relaxed way of sharing. It’s the first comment I ever gave anyone on CZcams. Once again thanks a milllllion!!!!!!!!!!
Romeo, Thanks for your comment. It is really helpful for the people making videos when you give feedback like that. It's always nice to know people appreciate what you're doing.
I literally switched majors in college from Sax Performance to another area of study I was passionate about because I was getting classical music shoved down my throat and had no desire to be in that space long term. Then I joined two different horn sections in local bands and never looked back. Your experience and analysis is spot on. Yes there is value in understanding some of the methods and theory in classical composition, and everyone always talks about Parker, but I never got a method book for scales and measure markers for improv jazz soloing until I specifically and independently went looking for it. My jazz fundementals, in the area I'm passionate about, are shit because my early instructors only cared about making me fit into a symphonic wind ensemble. Your videos are amazing. Thank you for making these!
I never had private instruction, i just was shown how to blow into the instrument, handed a fingering chart, and asked to play "Hot Cross Buns" about 300 times for a year.
And then at our year end "concert" the school tenor issued to me was still out at the repair shop so i spent the concert sitting in my chair with the other players doing nothing.
Some how this horrible experience didn't deter me from keeping up with my playing and eventually becoming the best player not only in Middle school, but in my high school as well. I sometimes wonder if i would have gone Pro had i actually had some instruction. Oh well, that was 15 years ago now, life moves on.
Jay, you are so spot on! I had this experience in University studying music and ended up switching to law because I was bored out of my mind practicing stuff that I would never play in real life. Now, I love playing the sax as an outlet for stress and to have fun with friends and family. So much more fun than university studies in music!
Jay, Is that a Sunday Trippin hat??? That was the era of moldy figs... Back in the early 70s, I chose the music school I would attend-I chose a school that had a jazz curriculum and whose main teacher was known for odd time meters (Hank Levy)-I loved 5/4, 7/4, 14/8, etc. To get a degree-even a jazz degree back then-I STILL needed classical chops. I did as little classical study as possible and spent as much time on jazz as possible-even to the tune of jamming every night with my friends for 4+hours. Fast forward 20 years... I have a son who wanted to play piano (I had all my kids learn some piano). He attended the Royal School of Music for piano for several years. But I noticed he was getting board. I had played piano since early childhood - but I played what I wanted to. So I got him a Keith Emerson (ELP) music book (because he could read really well) and had him learn a crossover piece (part classical with a rock feel). He was totally hooked. At that point I taught him how to chord on piano and the rest is history. His first album at age 17. He's an MD for a mega music organization and a singer songwriter. He had a love for his instrument and love for a certain style of music-when they connected, he practiced/played for three and more hours per day. If you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life-because it won't seem like work! Appreciate your heart and teaching methodology. Your melomania is infectious. Cheers.
Excellent discussion. I've always felt a desire to learn jazz. I started learning clarinet 40 years ago but lapsed when I had to share house. When I turned 50 I jumped back into clarinet, sax and then flute (with some dabbling in bassoon with the local concert band). However, though my desire was really to be able play jazz, I never found a path that would take me there. For a while I did have a sax teacher that was more interested in teaching improv but my funds were low and then he retired. So, I've needed to be self taught and inevitably I follow the path of the various standard courses an, inevitably, bog down with boredom and never get past level 3 playing. You make excellent points :)
Yeah... I have been playing for over 50 years and back in the day, I ran into the same thing. When I was a kid I had to figure out jazz with recordings. There was no You Tube or Abersold. I taught myself altissimo by trial and error. No one would show me anything. They would say, learn it the hard way like I did. In the sixties and seventies, I listened to Maynard Ferguson' s sax players and Stanley Turrentine. They taught me the Pentatonic scale. Grover Washington was another great. Groove man... Once I learned the Pentatonic and blues scale, I was on my way. Your videos are great and I have gone back to basics to continue to improve my tone and abilities. It is all about tasteful licks and melody. We all cannot be like Coltrane or Brecker. It is about the joy of playing and the beautiful sound of the saxophone. Keep up the great teaching. Much appreciated.... Jacque Harenberg
Thank you Jacque.
(1) I never felt this, but I had good teachers that appreciated all of the musical instruments in the concert band.
(2) TRUE. No one taught me the blues or altissimo. I had to learn those and other topics on my own. The classical elements I learned, however, helped me as a musician overall.
(3) TRUE. My sax teachers were primarily band directors; of them, only one was an actual sax player (who played jazz and rock gigs). I had a couple interactions with sax players here and there that gave me some pointers. One of the most important pointers given to me was to pick up Rascher's "Top Tones for Saxophone" which I muddled through on my own.
(4) TRUE. See #3.
(5) My teachers all had the freedom to construct the programs as they saw fit. They also encouraged me to seek out my own path in music and opened the gates for me to do so.
(6) While we were kind of in lockstep with some things, one of my band directors gave her students access to the band room and its practice rooms for a little while before and after classes.
I thoroughly enjoy listening and watching all your videos. I appreciate that you are sharing your insights, knowledge, and experience with your online students. I took traditional lessons for a couple years thirty years ago. Work and family took priority. Just started playing the alto again six months ago. Certainly there is value in the classical approach, but I have to have some diversion along the way. Still working full time, and I enrolled in your core essentials. It’s keeping me busy enough for now, but I also have been doing the PSBE and the Pentatonic intro. Looking forward to the future classes and thank you so very much .
Hit the nail right on the head! The points you made in this video is exactly why I only played in school band for a short time. I am now trying to teach myself the way I want to learn 6 years later.
That being said one school I attended had a jazz band after school in which I excelled however it was hard to balance with everything. Love your videos!
I love this video! thanks for the inspiration!
My son played my alto in the school band and the school jazz band. They have a great music program. He had a knack but wasn't really into it. Asked me about guitar. Set the guitar on my lap next to keyboard and showed him set up like a piano which he had 6 or 7 years on. (rule in my house) He took my bass and practiced. Won audition at school for single bass player. Has 6 guitars now. With sax he was confined to the script. Director let him "play it out" in jazz band with bass. Great video Jay.
Charlie Parker studied classical etudes and composers tbf
Charlie Parker (and Sonny Stitt, an a lot of others) studied Santy Runyon's Dynamic Etudes and Modern Etudes.
Charlie Parker, when in Chicago studied from Dynamic Etudes and Modern Etudes by Santy Runyon in his lessons with Santy at the Runyon Studio. Parker and Sonny Stitt were even credited in the Foreword to Modern Etudes with proofreading the book.
Not what I expected but laughed all the way through it! I had to buy an alto sax just for music school because you can’t major on tenor sax. I believe the reason why the sax is the bastard stepchild of the orchestra has more to do with the narrow timbres of the other instruments in the orchestra. With a few saxophones, you can be as bright as the trumpets, as bold as the F horns, as woody as the clarinets, as melancholy as an oboe or English horn, and as lush as the strings. The orchestra would be exciting with 24 saxophones, 4 bassoons, 4 bass viols, and percussion!
I also posit this: The saxophone is new enough that there is a legacy of knowledge that can be traced back to Adoph Sax and the other early saxophonists who worked with him. Very few instruments can directly trace playing technique to the inventor. Current saxophone teachers who can trace their learning and technique back to the beginning are a treasure for the saxophone world, even if they don’t teach the genre of choice.
I taught elementary band for one year before retiring. Mastering Hot Cross Buns was not the goal but sure helped us play a Queen medley I arranged for the final concert in the spring. This brings up another point you touched on when talking about learning guitar vs sax in a band. Play along and copy vs sit down and learn a foreign language so you can read it in a large group and perform the institutionalized band music industry product.
Thanks for putting out fantastic material on CZcams! I’m regaining my love of playing.
Klose method
You’re absolutely right man, I have a bachelors degree in music from a university here in Nigeria and everything you mentioned from point one to six are spot on man, it’s amazing these things happen all over the world, ( the curriculum part especially). I’m grateful for this video man, I wish I could give it a million thumbs up
Thanks Adeyemi! That classical mindset has spread around the world from the top down. Few have dared to change this approach over the centuries.
I truly appreciate your videos and sagely advice. BTW, 13+ minutes of this kind of instruction is not 'long-winded,' as stated in some of the comments below (especially in comparison to the hours of classroom/university instruction out there.) Thank you for your genuine interest in helping musicians and teachers make the time spent in their craft truly count.
Thanks for the support Michael. Your comment means a lot.
100% nail on the head, I quit playing because no one would teach me the cool jazz/pop stuff I wanted to learn to play. Now I have to re-learn from scratch as an adult. I could have been playing all these years, but everything taught in school was super boring.
This video has been out for years. I have seen and enjoyed many of your videos. This is a dose of truth that the "institution" does not want out there. I have ranted about these same things and for a long time. Your thoughts are far more organized than mine though. As a person with two music degrees and a career in music, I concur totally with everything you have said here. So much of it is also applicable to other instruments as well. It was the rare teacher who made the conservatory curriculum relate to playing music in any way. I admire all your work! Looking forward to watching more of it!
Great video - I see now how to change not only my sax practice but my piano lessons! Because most piano versions are all but unrecognizable compared to the records (sometimes even with a completely erroneous time signature), I'll transcribe pieces I want to be able to play and then get my teacher to help me learn to play them properly. Figuring those pieces out on my sax will be good practice too.
With you all the way Jay. I studied Baroque and renaissance recorder and concert flute. I’ve played bass (untaught) since I was 17 and took up sax (untaught) at 23. While my classical education helps me I learned both bass and sax by playing with others. I’ve taught music for over 30 years and now teach from both angles. But I’m a player too. I perform on all of my instruments weekly so I can bring all sides to the teaching table. My students learn reading/theory etc while playing a combination of what they want and what they need if they are to take exams. I have devised a method of drastically speeding up the very process you describe and for the exact reasons you describe. It’s too slow, it’s too boring. We have to get our students playing better faster in order to keep their initial enthusiasm alive. Please do contact me privately if you’d like to hear about my method. I would be grateful for international support as I apply for local funding to develop my system! You’re on the button though. We have to develop our ears and our eyes and bring out the musician within. Then the theoretical parts we need to know will make sense. The best way to learn a language is to be immersed with people who only speak that language. Music is the only global language and so we should immerse ourselves and our students in it in order to learn it fluently.
Kieran, send me an email on the contact page of bettersax.com/contact I'd be interested to see what your project is about.
Kieran Eaton Mind sharing some lesson?
I am so glad that you do what you do. I am a big fan of yours and I am learning a lot from you. This particular video was very inspirational because I cannot afford a tutor. So, it's good to know that you think I can learn just by watching Someone Like You on video and by listening to the music I like. And I was inspired to learn the saxophone because of a piece of music that I like and want to be able to play and that is the Clarence Clemens solo at the end of jungleland by Bruce Springsteen. Please keep doing what you are doing, and I will keep learning from you.
Brilliant video. As soon as my sax arrives, I will be starting with the free courses in your emails, followed by the pentatonic foundation course. Brilliant stuff! 🤘🎷🎶
I learned flute the classical way and it gave me a very good grounding... sight reading, scales, arpeggios, broken chords, finger exercises and classical pieces accompanied by piano..... plus Classical music exams at which I did extremely well.. and I branched out from there into blues and jazz and pop on my own. However, this is not the case for saxophone lessons because you are my first teacher for saxophone. Before I found you online, I just used to muck around on the saxophone and if it did not sound very good, I just went back to playing flute.. Your lessons have now got me on the right track for playing saxophone properly. Back to basics and extremely well explained. Thank you.
Nice perspective! I learned saxophone in a classical conservatory and felt the education of the saxophone as well as music in general was outstanding. But that route is definitely NOT the ONLY route. Thank you for sharing!
Al, I definitely learned a lot at school, just not the things I wanted to learn. Where did you go?
Even if the things you learned were not you wanted to learn or not directly related to what your main interest was, perhaps the process of studying them as well as the information you gained helped to make you a more well-rounded musician and human being? I attended Indiana University In Bloomington where the music school was definitely grounded in the classical tradition. I do not regret taking all of the music theory and history classes, but your point is well taken regarding their actual utility as a saxophone player, especially in the jazz and pop idioms. I can definitely see the value of the customized music education through a very good private teacher.
Al the Pal u
Wonderful video! So insightful!
I am late to this. But I can say that what sets your channel apart is how brutally honest you are. People forget that sax players need to adapt to today's musical world and find what people like to listen to. My cousin never went to music school but learned jazz guitar on his own. He doesn't even know how to read sheet music and is constantly asked to play at well-known places because of his ability to improvise by ear.
I play Tenor Sax. Started at 12. All my books except Beginner are in brand new condition. One day in 1956 my dad brought home 2 MMO LP's I was hooked on swing. I found a teacher who Understood what I was trying to accomplish. I have a good ear. My goal was building chops. He gave me the what I Needed for an ear player. No reading involved. Shortly after my Horn went in the closet for 32 years. Out of the workforce out came my Tenor. I new exactly I wanted to play. "1948" Good enough to sit in a local clubs. The guy comes up to me and says "you got a nice tone, but you really don't know how to play that thing. "Doc" played guitar and some piano. We both had time and spent 3 months together. He knew my goals. It was great. I've surpassed my expectations of me. I enjoyed watching this video. Your So Right!
Thanks for sharing this Jim.
It all rings very true and eloquently delivered. From my own experiences as a kid and situations I see today, musical instrument instruction in public schools seems just about worthless. We weren't taught stuff to develop our interests and abilities, we were taught as band fodder. Clarinet players weren't even over the break after two years. After a couple of years, the only band kids getting anywhere were the ones taking private lessons and they were outnumbered by the kids getting ready to quit.
In saxophone forums, one common occurrence is distress calls from kids in school music programs who find they've hit the wall after a couple of years. They realize they can't get anything more than a squeezed-out little sound out of their instruments, or things get progressively worse below low G. Or they try switching from alto to tenor and find they can get next to nothing out of the lower register. Invariably they were taught the wrong embouchure by an instructor who was either too ignorant or too lazy to teach saxophone players differently than clarinet players. The clarinet-type embouchure can get a beginning saxophone player through the first months, but it becomes concrete overshoes when a student wants to develop real tone and facility. Kids in that position can get more benefit from watching one Joe Allard video than they got from two years of school saxophone "instruction."
the part about music school versus private lessons/other majors, etc was really well said!
Your channel is awesome keep it up!
Very interesting Jay, thanks for this great video👍
i cant believe what you have just said i used to play in secondary school and learning classical and not jazz really killed my inspiration which in the end has made me fall off in playing i was feeling really depressed thinking that i was just a bad student and lonely with that thought im so happy i came across this video for sure thank you!
Don't wait for school to show you how to achieve your musical goals. Find the music that inspires you and learn as much as you can from it (on your instrument).
A big THANK YOU for showing me how lucky I am!
As I was watching the video, I was recalling my lessons at the local music school and mentally cheching the 6 points one by one:
Reason #1: Nope, they don't make that mistake.
Reason #2: Nope, they don't make that mistake.
Reason #3: Nope, they don't make that mistake.
...etcetera.
I still remember the first sentence my teacher said right after introducing himself. It was a question:
"What makes you want to learn to play saxophone?"
...and he built the lessons around my answer and the subsequent conversation.
Still today, same school but different teacher, I'm asked what theme I'd like to use for learning and practising. If the theme I propose is not adequate for some reason (i.e. too complex, some difficult passages, not good for solo playing, etc.) he tells me and explains why. A couple times he even said: "OK, this one has a couple of parts which can be a bit too difficult for your current level, but I'll have ready a simplified arrangement for you by next week."
So, bottom line: As a teacher, you did a great job in making me appreciate my teachers (your colleagues, even if you don't know them) even more, which is great.
this video makes me super grateful for my teacher. im only a junior in high school but my teachers main instruments are the saxophone, and bassoon. and she also has a jazz band that most any band student can join with a small audition. shes just super skilled in every aspect of music. and it makes me super happy to be aware of how well my teacher can teach everybody something they want to know
Follow your teacher's advice and practice as much as you can.
@bettersax, When I first watched this I agreed wholeheartedly on everything, but today I found myself riffing on some classical pieces (with my faux classical tone!), that I had learned as a student 35 years ago. Classical music has definitely brought a nuance to my playing (technique,, phrasing, tone), especially on soprano. That's also why I loved Branford's tone when I first heard him with Sting, was such a pure sound. So whilst I agree that the 'one path' model is stupid, sometimes you don't know what you don't know, and a good teacher will give you a well rounded education. Thanks for the videos.
I'm an example of your thesis. My parent's gave my sister piano lessons but not me. Yet I was the one who got to love music of all genres. At university I had a girlfriend who was a music student and could sight-read piano music like she was reading a book. Eventually in my mid-thirties, when I took up the alto sax, I promised myself I wouldn't wait for years before I played real music. So the FIRST piece I ever played on the sax was "Take Five"; I got my girlfriend to help me with the tricky 5/4 time signature, studied a sax fingering chart and spent two weeks learning how to play the piece. I got there in the end. Having got that out of my system, I discovered a great book called "The Jazz Method for Saxophone" by John O'Neill and played jazz along with the CD (the final piece was "Yarbird Suite"). Whilst waiting in the shop where I bought my Selmer, I noticed an advert for sax lessons by John O'Neill. Living in London at the time I contacted him and, sure enough, it was the same one who wrote the book. So I ended up having lessons with John for about a year! I have a fond memory of once when we improvised together, him on his Selmer alto and me on mine. My girlfriend also had lessons with John, to learn the jazz flute (by then he'd published his book "The Jazz Method for Flute") but she wasn't able to improvise, whereas I found it easy. On the other hand, my sight reading was bad but hers was excellent. Nevertheless, I was happy because I'd achieved my goal of playing jazz FIRST, without having my enthusiasm crushed by years of classical music lessons. After my lessons I'd drive back into central London and visit Ronnie Scott's for the evening, leaving in the early hours to go the work the following morning. That was my "music school" education :-) P.S. I never told John about that "Take Five" piece - just in case he didn't approve!
This video is so spot on! I taught myself to play by listening to blues/rock/jazz records. I asked some music teachers what this scale was that I heard on all the records (blues scale) and was told "that's not a scale, don't ever play it again!". Playing licks based on the blues scale put food on my table and paid my bills for many years. It would have been great if I could have learned good techniques from a teacher while still focusing on the type of music I was interested in.
Can very much relate to your ideas having gone through many music instrument teachers in my youth (clarinet, organ, piano) and later in life violin. Went to a violin school for lessons, was hoping for country and blue grass, ended up suckered into the strict Grades system - the awful Molly’s Dance and not to forget Twinkle Little Star. Now 20 years later I learn on my own and pick the styles I like. Can’t agree with you more far too often music schools stifle the direction students aspire to follow.
Hi Jay… you are 100% correct. At a young age I wanted to play music and I was a guitar player. In elementary school band there is no guitar. Our music teacher was a cool hip young music director. Back in 1970…she played every instrument. She told me there is no guitar in band but she was a saxophone player and would teach me the saxophone. She looked and sounded like TIA Fuller. At the the time the Band Chicago was big and she would transcribed the horn parts for us to play. She was fantastic! Your right she taught us the fundamentals
This is a major reason why I left music school after my first year of college. The emphasis on classical music sucked the life out of playing sax for me. Thank you for sharing your insights!
Wow, glad I sdiscovered this channel. What a great video.
Awesome Jay…. Excellent explanation…
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 My first lesson on tenor sax was with a saxophone jazz musician. The first lesson was a pentatonic scale...on the third he gave me a base (piano and bass) to improvise over the pentatonic in two diferent keys. On the next lesson I played with him (he played a soprano sax) over the base I've been studied...the same thing that you mentioned....(sorry for my english, I am from Argentina). Great video!!! Saludos.
Jay,
Thanks can’t wait to get home and try the free course
Salut Jay, This is exactly it! I had lessons by very good saxplayers, but - as you said - they mostly teach how they have learned. Therefore, keep going and grooving! I keep practicing Your way with your lessons! A bientôt, Christian
Merci Christian!
Excellent.... I am a self taught musician in the UK with the saxophone both alto and tenor and after 25 years I am still learning great things from players like yourself..keep it going..,.
I’m thankful that during my private lessons my teacher gives me extra sheet music for jazz like John Coltrane and Cannonball Adderley
Excellent! What's needed to be said. I hope a lot of people see this
Exactly! Perfectly said. Fantastic video man!
Thanks Kenyon!
I agree, and I did take the other path. I sought out my sax/jazz/music heroes in summer schools, and took years worth of knowlegs from that with me as I passed through school. I did find another type of sax teacher, a classical saxophonist that claimed to teach jazz. Fortunately, I focused on technique that year. I find many students aren’t familiar with reeds in music, so I also spend a lot of time cultivating interest, and following the paths we find.
It’s funny that your first instructor played the clarinet, because mine did too! He made it clear that he had no like for people who wanted to play the saxophone. I lasted for about a year in band, and then I ended up giving it up because he liked to poke fun at us saxophone players and he got a little too carried away. It was supposed to fun, but ended up being a nightmare. 25 years later I’d still love to learn to play, and have fun with it. Always wanted to learn play baritone saxophone. Just loved the sound they make. Awesome stuff.
Thanks for the comment Stuart. never too late to get back into the sax.
I'm completely self taught.I learned on an old Pan Am tenor but my first horn was a Buescher C Melody I was given in 1968.For my tone,I listened to Johnny Hodges,Skeets Herfurt(whom I knew personally),Willie Smith,Matt Utal(whom I also know-he was with Les Brown,Johnny Bothwell(with Boyd Raeburn)and Harry Terrill(with Mitchell Ayres and his Fashions in Music).These were 78s I'd collected over the course of fifty plus years.Those records were my reference books.I started out as a trumpeter which I still play.As for an alto saxophonist like Wayne King,he came off as corny,but in fairness,he taught me how to play softly and in TUNE.I also learned that from Skeets Herfurt.
This video absolutely struck me to the core!
I spent 5 years in music school and was so sick of playing "classical" saxophone, I switched to classical guitar in my second year and never regretted the decision. I haven't considered picking the sax again until recently; almost 30 years after music school. I'm sure the way universities have traditionally taught saxophone have turned off countless musicians from the instrument. Count me among the casualties.
I started in middle school where they were actually teaching us to play, then dumped in to high school where they didn’t teach anything except marching. Parents couldn’t afford private lessons so here I am many years later, an adult with a extremely basic understanding of it and now wondering where to begin again. Picked up a used Yamaha yas23 alto and had it checked out professionally. Going to check out your course and hope I can squeeze in practice time. And some way not to tick off apartment neighbors.
Jay is a good source of inspiration to keep the sax playing alive when you become frustrated or feel confused. I would use a much stronger word than B...... to describe how a sax can make you feel during your learning years, I would say its a F...... C...
Thanks for the support. Much appreciated. I'm glad I have been a source of inspiration, that means a lot.
This is the best lecture on how not to suck as a sax player...find the right information from the real sax players and then you do the work. Thanks
Andile, thanks!
A lot of this rings, true. As a current high school student, all of the directors that I’ve had through elementary high school were either trumpet or oboe players. They were not saxophonists. Doesn’t mean that they haven’t been good teachers for me personally. My current band Director who is a trumpet player has been encouraging all of us who are in band and in the jazz band to try and learn what we want to learn in our spare time because he knows he can’t teach us everything. thanks to him I had the initiative and opportunity to learn bari and tenor sax. And Jay, I do personally wish that jazz was taught more to saxophonists.
Thank you for this video!!
Excellent video! Very much on point. Beginner sax here, but as an ex music student, I can totally relate
The FLEXIBILITY of Sax makes it easy to play badly. Intonation, Dynamics, & Tone require a lot of practice time. Get the basics right & then push it a bit & express yourself. Fast fingers won't help if you sound like a fog-horn frantic to be noticed. Let the listeners ears come to to you (eg. Stan Getz, or one of your favorites). They SOUND good & we want to hear what's coming next.
You're giving me motivation and methode. I hear also you teaching about playing by ear and I will try it just after workday.
I'm glad. Motivation and a clear method can sometimes be hard to come by. Keep working at it!