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7014 vs 7018 weld break test
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- In this episode we break test 7014 welding rods and compare the results to 7018.
0:00:00 Intro
0:03:39 let’s break
0:07:56 Let’s inspect
0:12:02 Book learning
0:14:06 Final inspection
0:18:32 Conclusion
great seeing you again Greg.....cheers from Florida,,,,,Paul
Thank you for the great content!! I started watching the channel a few weeks ago and I learned quite a lot from you so far. I own a big 8 cars semi-trailer and because i wanted to do my own customization and fixes on my trailer, i started learning to weld about 3 years ago. I love the break tests comparison with some numbers attached to each break test.
I am glad you like the content 😀. It’s my goal to help people understand more about what they are doing so they can build stuff that stays together 😀. Welding is definitely a useful skill to have with trailers, it’s nice to be able to modify and fix things on them. It’s increasingly difficult to find competent people that can weld too, which makes it more beneficial to do it yourself.
You made some very good points when comparing 7014 vs 7018. A lot of people don’t understand that. What many don’t realize is that most welds made with 7018 are run without heating the rods. I’ll do that too with A-38 or 1080. Though I’d rather use MiG. Oops. I meant to write 1018, not 1080.
I like the advantages of 7018 enough that I bought a small rod oven to keep 10lbs at a time in the shop. Since it is so readily available 7 days a week around here I never worry about running out.
I agree. I personally keep a pack of sealed rods around for jobs that need strength but there is nothing wrong with a mini oven (especially because many rods don’t come in a sealed pack). They run better preheated too anyway. It’s hard to describe it in the video but after having bend 60xx and 7014, er70 MiG and 7018 are “confidence inspiring”. They feel very strong and fail slowly. They just feel tough. The 60xx series and 7014 seem to have strength but not like er70 or 7018. The 7014 did still hold on after breaking which is good, and it did take a lot of force to break (more than 60xx) however ultimately it’s not as strong in the testing as 7018. 7018 is defiantly the way to go for strength.
Another interesting video.
Bearing in mind that I am only a Saturday morning "welder", but my reading teaches me that, if the steel, used in your tests is better quality than mild steel, then hydrogen enbrittlement would be a problem, and is where 7018 will shine.
When I use 7014 1/8 on 1/4 inch thick up I run 145 amp. With 3/32 I run 115 to 125. 7014 has some good uses and is easier to store easier restarts and you don't have to use a rod oven . It is not used to bridge or structual work. For every thing else it is just fine. How many of us are welding structual items,,, not many. Greg I may have missed you saying what size rod you used. If you used 1/8
you were too low on amps on 3/8 , go up in amps . 7018 1/8 runs on 125 amps, 7014 1/8 runs better at 135 amps and up.
I ran it at 125 and 130 amps, 1/8th rod. I will give it a shot at 140 and 150 however I don’t believe either will pass in a bend away from the face. Off camera I tested it on 1/4inch steel at 130 and it failed as well. I did test video if increasing amps increases strength in a bend towards the face, and it does slightly, so I know that would lead to improved performance in that respect.
A while back I was talking about a rod i was using to weld ultra thin sheet. Double wall motorcycle exhaust etc... (basically just chrome plating after the base rusted out)
I think this is it! Let's see you try to run a butt joint with the 7014 on 22 gauge sheet. I bet it works!
great photography........thanks Greg.......
Hi Greg, The Mini Machine has this essentially correct for face bend testing, depth of penetration determines the location of the point of maximum moment, the further this is from the centerline of the 3/8th material the easier the weld will break. I still think hydrogen embrittlement and weld metal dilution at the weld/parent metal interface is the culprit in the press tests. You work hard for us and I appreciate it, thank you.
No problem. I am going to try 7010/8010 and 7024 to see if any of those break. If the only ones that pass are mig, 7018, and obviously tig, that will definitely point in the direction of hydrogen playing a role.
It's also a great example of why we prep the metal before we weld
I think you do a great job.
Thanks 😀
Learning a lot from these tests!
As mentioned in some of your other comments; I'm curious to see how 7024 works out (my prediction, similar to 7014), but it also makes me wonder about 8010, 11018, etc. Thank you!
I will be testing 7010 or 8010 (primarily used for welding pipe) and some stainless rods that are over 110k tensile strength. I also have some ar500 and chromoly I will use as base material to demonstrate the strength increase 😀.
Great video and thoughtful. I weld a lot of 1/4" plate or thinner with E7014 using 3/32" and 1/8" rods. I use AC at about 140 amps for the 1/8" rods. It would be interesting to measure the width of the weld bead with calipers before and after the bend test to see if the e7018 weld penetration and elongation is enough to substantially reduce the shear load on the joint. I am happy with E7014 performance on 1/4" or 1/8" plate that has been beveled to 60 degrees.
Based on testing I have done off camera I think on 1/4 and 1/8th 7014 will perform solid. 7014 lends itself to be lower penetration which makes it really good on sheet metal. It also seems like the rod likes A/c as well, something I didn’t test originally.
@makingmistakeswithgreg Thank-you for that info. The reason I watched your video is because I have been using E7014 a lot in my builds because it runs and starts so easily on an AC buzz box, but there was a lot of hate on the internet so I wanted to see your experiments and tap your expertise. I don't want to weld with peanut-brittle. Thanks again for real actual useful data! I am presently building a gantry from 1/4" I-beam to lift the end of a 1000 (about 2100 lbs) gallon propane tank so I can level it. The propane company installer just used tiny cinder blocks and they sunk and rolled after the tank was filled. If I survive, I will give you an update on the success/failure.
Great video !! Thank you.
No problem 😀👍
So this is quite a controversial topic and there is a lot going on. Based on what I saw in testing 7014 is not as strong as 7018. The question I have is why is that…. The most likely reason is it has lower actual tensile strength, as stated in the video. It is also possible that the hydrogen it imparted had a detrimental effect on the steel. I will be doing further testing to see if that’s the case. When I test 7024 in a upcoming video, it will be interesting if that fails too 🧐.
The 7014 filler metal has less ductility, I believe that would largely affect when it yields?
interesting ! thank you looks like I will be buying 7018 in the future instead of my trusted 6011 rod.... the whole idea for me is that the weld should be stronger than the steel your welding....I do not want my weld to fail i would rather have the steel fail. so thank you for the great information !
Definitely on thicker steel when bent/pushed hard 7018 will clearly keep things attached better than 60xx, and 7014. In my testing er70 Mig, 7018, 7016, and dual shield wire will have no issue keeping things held together on thick plate. When strength is a concern those should be the choices made. They also will likely will handle impact shock better without failure over many 60xx series rods. 6011 is still a great rod for a ton of jobs like poor fitups on non critical work, out of position work on non critical stuff, and I really like it for doing fence work repairs.
Great stuff as usual! I definitely find 7014 easier to run in my welder than 7018. I never get those "bubbles" on the surface that you do, and I'm not welding a skyscraper or ship or whatever --so, when I'm feeling lazy and don't want to worry about burn through, I reach for the 7014's. That said, they stink link burning rubber IMHO and the slag can be much more of a hassle than 7018s. Oh well. Guess there really is no free lunch! Lol Keep the learning/teaching vids coming, please --they are awesome!!
To this day I am still not sure what the bubbles are. I still get them with the multiple different rods I have. I will have to revisit running them on new material some day and see what happens. 7014 definitely does produce stronger welds than the 60xx series rods, it puts down far more metal, and it runs on any welder. Definitely a useful rod, and I much rather use it than 6013 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Maybe not you so much but other vids I watched were all over starting with 6013 rods to learn to weld. WORST ADVICE EVER! THEY SUCK!! LOL To this day I still can't run a decent 6013 weld but give me a 7018 (or any 70 series) or 6010 or 6011 and I can lay down some nice stuff. Your results with 7014 is really strange 'cause I bought the same Blue Demon rods 'cause they were the cheapest and available mostly but I get no bubbles on clean or dirty mild steel (when I say dirty, I mean I brushed it off but definitely not shiny metal surface that I welded on). Just super shiny welds under the heavy dark slag. Very strange.
Would you use 7018 on 4mm thick box section to construct roof trusses for a shed?
PS great videos , thanks.
Since you're actually loading the root in shear, it would be interesting to see the result of using a beveled T joint, if only for the sake of seeing what gains could be had if welding a high stress joint.
So your saying welding it out with a bevel to achieve full penetration? I have a video on beveling welds and if it increases strength, it will be out in a week or two. I have bent test (off camera) 3/8th plate welded with a bevel and it passed just the same on a bend away from the face. Where a bevel helps is bends towards the face. By reducing the leverage the plate has using the weld as a fulcrum, it takes way more strength to break. On stuff that sees loads from multiple directions a one sided fillet weld is only the strongest in one direction (away from the face. A full pen beveled weld on a fillet could give equal strength in both directions. It could also be welded that way with access to only one side, because the alternative would be to weld both sides of a fillet weld (which may not be possible).
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I'll be looking for that video.
I neglected to mention that I realize that the purpose for this test was comparing electrodes only.
Owing to the wide variation in welding equipment and the electrodes that can be used, seeing the benefit in taking the extra steps for a critical connection will be worthwhile for those limited to AC only electrodes.
really making me a 7018 fan.....
One idea for a video that I believe could help a lot of people getting started in welding would be comparing 2 of the most popular welders on Amazon... Toolium 250a vs YESWELDER MIG-250 PRO... I purchased a week ago the Toolium 250a at an Amazon sale for $291 and so far I quite happy with it. The reason I got it was because there are a few good videos on youtube about it and it was cheaper then the Yeswelder-250 but I really wanted to know how it compare with the Yeswelder-250... if the Yeswelder-250 is worth thr extra money... btw before buying the Tooliom-250 I had 2 welders... a "Forney Easy Weld 261, 140 FC-i Welder, 120V" (wasted my money... got when I knew very little about welding and because of the high number of positive ratings on Amazon)... and a "KICKINGHORSE A220" (this is actually a very good stick welder in general but after seeing how easy it was to mig weld... that is why I bought the Tooliom now)
In the future I will definitely do a bunch more comparison with entry level machines. A lot of them have become decent enough to recommend for beginners. More affordable options means more people building stuff 😀
I’d be interested to see some tests with thicker 7024 vs same size 7018.
From a strength perspective I have found that 7018 will outperform 7024 on a fillet weld break test towards and away from the face. The interesting thing is 7024 run in the flat position seems to out penetrate 7018 on a flat plate, but on an actual joint it penetrates less. I believe 7024 was primarily designed for flat butt welds and it definitely seems to run good on those.
7018 from my knowgale gets streangth from the maganise ,vanadium,molydenum, niclke , well the soviet ones at least others i dont know
Just curious, for Greg and/ or the other viewers: have you ever tried the "big brother" of the 7018? I mean the 7028. Low hydrogen but high deposition, like 7024. In my area (Europe), I never saw a real one in person. Is it still available in the US?
Thanks for your time making the videos.
Sart0
So 7028 is not generally available in anything less than 50lbs in the states. My understanding is it was primarily designed to weld thick specialty steels. I have never ran them, but I have ran (and like 7024) so I would probably like 7028. I will have to keep my eyes peeled for some.
Greg, thanks for the video. Second let me qualify myself as a very novice. I know 7018 is known for malleability, could that impact these strength test. I like both but find 7014 so much better to restart. Also could a more severe rod angle toward the vertical plate improve the 7014 strength performance?
A steeper rod angle would force the weld higher in the upright plate, but I doubt it will improve the strength. I say this because you want a 45degree angle ideally for maximum strength on a single pass and when you deviate from that on one “leg” of the weld failure of the other one will be likely. I will be testing multi pass 7014 and a bunch of other suggestions to see if it can eventually hold up.
Do you use 7016 on your side of the pond? Used it everyday for repair work when I worked in a steel foundry. All position root and fill.
I actually ordered some 7016 from Australia recently. 7016 is not something you can find in the US, despite a lot of it being made here. I contacted a local supplier and they could get me some, but it was going to be 900$ because I had to buy 4, 50lb tins of it 😅. I have heard a lot about it and will be checking it out soon.
Quick question…
I have a plethora of worn out mower blades from 72” Zero Turns, and even some 3/8” Brush Hogs blades. I’ve been using them for welding coupons, but an acquaintance told me hardened steel wasn’t my best choice. Your thoughts?
Thanks Greg!
So lawn mower blades could be made out of steel that is heat treated or heat hardening. In simple terms the steel you see me weld on the channel is mostly mild steel, if you heat it the steel does not become harder. Some steel (like what knives, bolts, and possibly lawn mower blades are made from) has higher carbon/other elements and upon heating it beyond a certain temp, it will become harder. The problem with welding those types of materials is welding them will typically produce a very brittle weld, and will change the material in the heat affected zone. For practice purposes it will weld very similar to mild steel however it will like break/snap under stress. You may see cracks along the weld toes and if you weld one piece to another it may crack off during cooling. There are ways to properly weld heat hardening steels, it mostly revolves around preheating it (typically for over 3/16th thick) using fillers that don’t become brittle with carbon absorption (nickel, 309 and 312 stainless etc) and making sure the material doesn’t get too hot during welding (along with slowly allowing it to cool).
For running beads on it I wouldn’t worry about it, a bead on that will weld very similar to mild steel.
Wow, what a GREAT and well thought out answer. Thanks for the time you took to really explain. I really appreciate it Greg. I think l need to buy some legit coupons, but hard to ignore all this beautiful steel just laying around for the taking 🫤.
The really weird thing is using er309 to weld common square steel tube *to give a “smooth and lovely” appearance,* say for furniture-grade “appearance” TIG welds.
A lot of farmers use 7014 rod because all they have is an old ac buzz box welder.
I get you can get 7018ac rods now. But they don't weld as easily as regular 7018 or 7014.
Good point. The non A/C rods are hit or miss with how they run on a buzz box. Many that say they will run on AC don’t lol. 7014 is definitely stronger than 6013.
Hello Greg,
on the subject of 7018, which is tough to restart at times in confined areas due to
the snurd on on the end of the rod, I have found that 7018 AC does not seem to have that issue....
what I am wondering, when run on DC + for max penetration , is there a difference in strength and
penetration between the two......
of course, 7018 can be run on DC - and AC, and big rods [3/16 and over] are supposed to run better
on AC and at long distances from the power supply [not something the home shop guy would have to deal with]
I will tend to used 7018 AC 1/8 and 3/32 when up in the joists or in tight corners doing reinforcement on
existing fabrications...
Cheers, Paul in Orlando....
So I have tested 7018 in a cut and etch test to see how AC affected it. AC on my dynasty functions different than a normal buzz box (it can keep rods lit that should be able to run on AC) so the results are likely slightly different in what I saw vs a buzz box. Based on the testing rods loose penetration on AC vs DCEP. So presumably running a 7018 on AC would lower it’s testing results on a bend towards the face and likely still pass on a bend away from the face.
I was interested in seeing the difference on DC+ with 7018 AND 7018 AC...I know they are slightly different operating...but not much...but the restarts are easy with 7018 AC
I'd definitely love to see a sideby comparison of 7018 and 7018AC with both run on DCEP
7018ac being way easier to restrike is great
6013 and 7014 is all i use on the farm
Is the difference between lubricated and unlubricated press tests relevant?
Because I round the corners of the plates there is very little difference between lubricated and unlubed plates. At some point I switched to ar500 base plate and dry lube to reduce wear. The goal of the press it to generate enough force to fully bend the plate more than to produce accurate measured loads. I include the pressure gauge because it’s common for welds to fail under very little pressure and the gauge can reflect that.
Any ideas on setting up a circuit for a welder
As far as wiring a 240v circuit? That’s something I have debated doing a video on. It’s really not hard however i don’t want to see people get hurt/do things wrong. I might do that in the future.
Will 7014 or 6013 welded on both sides do better than the 7018 on just one side,,
To answer that question, if you were to weld both sides of the plate single pass with 7014 or 6013 the plate will still break off. At some point you could probably weld the opposite side enough that it wouldn’t fail anymore, but you’re probably talking 3+ layers. When you bend a plate or a weld one side is under tension and the other side in under compression. 6013 and 7014 can handle much the same compression as 7018, but in tension they are weaker.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg 👍👍👍
My expectations was that failure mode for different rods would be somewhat similar, how wrong was I 😃 That delamination just magnificent, we have mild steel that holds, we have bead that holds, but some unknown alloy between parent metal and bead metal fails, WOW!
And sorry for dumb question, are chemistry specs(like carbon and phosphorus) for 7014 at 12:10 are way off from AWS maximum values? Does it still mean that the ESAB rod is certified as E7014?
Hey, maybe you could elaborate on the definition of “home gamer” and practices involved in that in some future videos? I do understand that structural and any liability related welding are off limits here but even a simple wide fence gate or a railing around some decking thanks to mechanical advantage could put quite a stress on weld seams. Is overbuilding stuff one and only practical(!!!) way to go?
So AWS specs are often minimum and not maximum. So the specs you saw for yield and tensile strength were minimums. Every manufacture has to meet those as a baseline. In theory you could have 4 different manufactures with 4 different test results, say 72, 74,78, and 80k ultimate tensile strength all for a 7014 or 7018. With that said you are correct, if the data sheet is correct they tested over on carbon and phosphorus, which I didn’t even catch. My guess is there is a zero missing after the decimal. The spec sheet I pulled was for one of the two 7014s I have and one of 3 of the 7018s I have. I didn’t use Esabs spec sheet because it doesn’t have as much info as those. I looked up the exact rods I used for specs (esab) and they are all within AWS and close to the ones in the video (minus a zero after the decimal). So the good news is according to the manufacture the exact rods I used are in spec. I will have to email the other one and tell them about there error lol.
I do plan on doing some higher liability videos such as suspension components, roll cages, vehicle frames, tractor repairs, steering components, and building a hydraulic testing device. As far as “home gamer” I generally use that the refer to work the average person would find themselves working on. In specific not code work (like pipe, contract work for the government, bridges, and stuff built to engineering designs). I also use that term to somewhat shield me from liability because in no way shape or form am I suggesting anything I do is how you should actually repair or make things with liability, because those things need a engineer to sign off on them generally. A competent welder is capable of performing the welds on many higher liability jobs, the problem is doing such (in a home shop) opens them up to a lot of potential legal issues. That’s something I definitely need to touch on in the future. It’s also universally understood that some form of quality control inspection and NDT is done on code work, something a “home gamer” doesn’t have the qualifications or tools to do at home. However if what you are asking is to cover something that is a bit of engineering thought (aka how strong to build something), how to not “over build” something (which wastes material and time), and how to know when something has too much liability (and shouldn’t be done by a person) I can do a video on that. Let me know if that’s what you’re looking for.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Big THANK YOU for that clarification! 👍 Yes, engineering bit is my interest. Just a small example: few weeks ago I was planning to make a small but sturdy outdoor bench with a welded frame, had drawn a project, prepared steel tubing and then it was like “Hey, that’s a lot of steel!” and right after that “But if someone will use it as a ladder or something? 200 pounds is a lot of stress…and dump those 6013 rods!”, those doubts pretty much spiraled out of control…yeah, I know how it sounds 😃 With welding disassembly of things is no fun, so some insight into right mindset and workflow will be welcomed. If you also touch a liability aspect of welding fabrication and repairs it would be great. I’ve seen on CZcams how people splitting in half frames of theirs pickups and then re-welding them almost on house lawn, pretty sure they intent was more than just use those cars on they own property.
Definitely do a video on that if it isn’t too much work.
Thanks again !
No problem 😀
When testing the part in the press the force dropped because the mechanical advantage changed at the pivot point from bending. For example, 1lb of force on a 2 foot arm from a pivot point to a 1 foot arm from the pivot point will produce 2lbs of force.
I agree with you, however at the moment it dropped below 4ton the plate must have cracked and thus the pressure dropped. I could tell by the pressure in the hydraulic handle there was nothing there resisting the ram anymore. With 6010/6011 the weld tended to “blow apart” aka instantly drop to zero and wasn’t holding together at any point. 7014 cracked, however small bits still held on slightly. Obviously this is a better situation than blowing apart and completely failing.
So how about doing a bend test with a 6010 root (maybe 3/32) then two 7018's (1/8)? (yea, I know... pipe...)
So I tested a 1/8th 6010 root and 2 bead 7018 cap, the video is here: czcams.com/video/WJ1hgfscVe8/video.htmlsi=DNCfwjPR-vJxrtUc
Needless to say the performance was excellent. I definitely wouldn’t mind using that as a practice for general use, not just on pipe.
I don't recall that when I was welding a lot even though I only occasionally use 7014. I found it the easiest ride to weld with ever. But I'm wondering if the reason you had the failure on those is because you welded them way up in the 125 amperage area. That much heat can cause the resulting austenitic Zone to fail. Is that possibly the issue, bring it down to about 110 amps so that you can get that weld in there. I do remember that 7014 was almost exclusively used in nuclear plants. Because of its ability to be an all position rod. 7018 must be used in vertical up as well as in horizontal. The first time I ever got 7014 to build some dip tanks with, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven it was that easy to weld with . But considering it's supposed to be rated at a higher strength and yet it fails before the 6010, which does indeed penetrate better because it's designed to penetrate, I'm wondering what the issue is. I did find using 6013 was best whenever I was welding on anything galvanized if I was using a stick. It actually produced some really good welds.
I'm hoping I catch this but why in the world did anybody ever think that it was a good idea to make a gas for mig welding that was primarily Argon with some CO2 at 2% oxygen? I finally found an argument for that, but it doesn't make any sense to me and it was only applicable when you were welding large-scale stainless fitments or blocks together what Ford had asked us to use that whenever we're making dip tanks and the light out of half inch and 3/8 plate stainless it was utterly ridiculous to intentionally contaminate the weld metal and that's all it was doing. We actually been tested it and it would fail quite spectacularly. I'm wondering if it was just some young engineer who thought he had come up with something that wasn't applicable to the application he was having us use?
You bought up a lot of good points and ideas. Couple things I will update you on. So believe it or not it’s actually very common for actual weld test results of 6013 to hit over 70k tensile strength and 7014 to be the same or less than 6013. A viewer sent me some links showing a few brands on rods (esab was one) and no BS the 7014 was the same or less on actual tensile strength as the same companies 6013. The results in the video I think comes down to the 7014 being 12-14k tensile strength under 7018s actual testing. Not all companies 7014 test so low, I am going to try another companies rods and see what happens. It tends to produce very low penetration no matter the brand, but penetration isn’t a huge issue when you bend a weld away from the face.
As far as the oxygen blend, it’s commonly used with spray arc. I just picked up a bottle for a project I am working on, it will be interesting to see what happens. I am going to be up over 350a and some big wire, so I will find out what happens lol. Your thoughts make me wonder what the results will be. I will have to run some test welds and bend them for sure.
Sir.what is the name of gauge to use in this break test
So the torque measuring device is a torque adapter used to measure the torque applied to the lever. The lever I made. Keep in mind the setup is primarily meant to be used just to compare strength of the welds I test amongst each other, it’s not designed to be accurate to other devices. Without the black extension bar the torque adapter wouldn’t be able to read high enough to give an accurate reading.
Yes.thanks
maybe more of a v grove on heavier material will give the 7014 better strength
So I have a video out on beveling soon. Beveling will increase weld thickness, which will give a stronger weld when bent towards the face on a single sided weld. It unfortunately won’t increase the welds ability to hang on when bent away the face. Beveling is definitely desirable to bevel when you can only weld one side.
but i i do run 7014 at like 120 225 and 7024 at 180 240 amps at but their like 5/32
I will have to give the 5/32 rods a shot in 7014 and 7024. I have only ran those in 1/8th sizes. I have ran 7018 up to 1/4in diameter when I was in school.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg thats imprisive i think the biggest i run would probley be what called a rocket rod i forgot the diameter but the amps are hard to forget i think amps where like 1,000 the were used to weld crucibles baxk to geter the hade to be used with a tripod
Calling rods “farmer rods” in the defense of farmers I do farm on a small scale. Farmers use 6011 for several reasons they are available for purchase at most farm supply store and some are now carrying 6010 however not 6010 5 P rods next these 6011 are good on rusty implements and farming machinery they will penetrate through rust. The weld pool with 6011 doesn’t freeze as quick as 6010 rods and 6011 puddle flows more easily than 6010. The 6011 is easier to use it doesn’t need super skills to use so it’s quicker for a farmer to use. Most of the time you see a smaller farmer welding it’s in the field with his equipment broken down and he’s in a hurry to get back running and he will tell himself when he finishes he will make the temporary repair right as soon as he’s finished with what ever season he’s in. And you guessed it, it’s doesn’t happen unless it breaks again. 7014 are readily available in farms stores as well and now I’m noticing more 7018 in these stores as well. In using 7014 I found that the metal needs to be clean most farmer aren’t welders they are doing these repairs out of necessity and are in a hurry and cleaning metal to them isn’t happening. I have used 7018 on dirty metal and gotten away with it. However 7018 does prefer clean metal. Most farmer aren’t into multiple beads just to much time. I have built several special purpose trailer for my farming operations and I used 6011 and 6010 for beads and 7014 and 7018 for hot pass and capping. I’ve built several other pieces of farming equipment and they are still working quite well. I do learn from your videos and thank you for sharing you information. Not all people who weld understand the differences in rods and their purpose. I do think that stick welding is becoming a lost art of welding. And plastic pipe will eventually replace metal pipe. Maybe not in my life time but it’s coming.
I can tell you have a lot of real world experience. Without a doubt a 6011 or 6010 is the way to go on unclean/poor material prep material. It can make a far stronger weld on such material that what is possible with other rods. That’s something I probably don’t mention enough, and that on perfectly prepped/clean material 7018 is strong. On poor prep, rusty, wore out material I have a feeling 6010/6011 will produce a stronger weld. Both of those are also far easier to run on poor material.
at 1:35 i can say right off the bat 7014 is more filler than structural 7018 ... but they are so easy to glue to the metal ..lol
I agree that the plate failure under the weld is likely from hydrogen. Not sure how that could be proven though.
My thought is to run 70 or 8010 to see if it holds on and 6010 doesn’t. I am also going to get a 7018 good and soaked with water and weld with it to see if it breaks. If 70/8010 both break that would start pointing towards hydrogen playing a role. If a wet 7018 fails that would also point towards hydrogen. Based on 7014s results I have a feeling 7024 might break as well, which if it does it really will point towards the direction of hydrogen embrittlement.
I didn’t mention it in the video, however when breaking the welds they have different a “feeling” to them. Er70 Mig and 7018 feel almost identical to each other, and they feel completely different than 60xx and 7014. The 60xx rods, and 7014 feel brittle, the test results seem to suggest they are more brittle as well. That could be because of the effect of hydrogen. The further testing should give a better idea on that I hope.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I've never ran any 70 or 8010 and not sure what to expect. Can't really see the use of a stronger fill metal if the hydrogen issue is still there. It'll be interesting whatever happens.
I would not weld equipment hauler trailer couplers on with 7014, or the spring hangers. Matter of fact, I would get that rod out of your shop.
What I can see is your 7014 had no penertation into your base metal weld just laying on top of plate and is not a ductile as 7018 has the capability to stretch a certain amount. The bend tests you're doing are going to break most every time the way you do them but weld 2 60dgree v groove plates grind face and root flat to plate surface the bend one face one root 180 degree u bend see what happens. What polarity were you using trying using reverse polarity
The 7014 weld penetrated into the plates decent since the weld tore off a bunch of the plate. The root has very minimal fusion which is typical of 7014. I did cut and etches of 7014 and it had virtually no root fusion on 1/4inch plate, and it won’t have much on 3/8th either. I will be testing a beveled upright plate, more amperage, more passes, and a few other things to see what happens with 7014.
I will also get around to testing flat plates as you described. That is a totally different way to stress the weld that is more equal on both sides of it. The reason I didn’t start with this is because when most home hobby welders make stuff, they are doing fillet welds and not butt welds with bevels. I also do a ton of trailer repairs and it’s very common to have fillet welds break on trailer chain pockets and elsewhere. Basically the average person is far more likely to make a fillet weld and stress it than a proper beveled butt weld.
The weld has to be as thick the base material to do a basic bend test. Make multiple passes until the weld is as thick as the base material. I'll bet you won't break the weld so easy if the weld is as thick as the base metal.
So in the case of 7014 it actually is significantly weaker than 7018 (both on basis of AWS spec and actual testing) and even multiple passes of it would not likely cause it to hold on. In the case of 6010 I demonstrated that in this video: czcams.com/video/I4e36fBMd7k/video.htmlsi=bPdif7VG0nl-Wjo2
The fillet weld break test in the video doesn’t load the weld equally (one weld toe gets loaded more than the other because of how the plate bends. More welds doesn’t change this fact, therefore 2 more passes of 7014 will not change the fact it will fail at the toe. Partially it’s not absolutely a perfect test, but rarely would a fillet weld someone makes at home ever be perfectly balanced with force being applied to the weld perfectly equal.
7014 is not a equivalent to 7018 in pretty much any respect unfortunately. But it really wasn’t designed to be a replacement for 7018. It was designed to weld thinner material, be easy to run, and perform really good in most positions while depositing a slightly stronger weld than 6013. Believe it or not 6013 is actually close to 7014 for actual tensile strength testing, with 6013 often hitting an average of 70k and 7014 in the ballpark or 74k. 7014 has more metal deposition though.
Isn't it well established that 7018 has better penetration than 7014? You're seeing exactly what you should expect to see here. This is why different rod types exist.
Many people buy 7014 under the premise it’s a solution to 7018s “storage requirements”. They don’t realize they are giving up a fair amount going to it over 7018. It’s also common for many manufactures to call 7014 equal in penetration to 7018, when it actuality it’s less. A quick Google search says 7014 is moderate penetration and 7018 is medium to moderate, yet they are significantly different.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Doing a quick google search and not a proper one is indeed the problem here! But that said, 7014 is still likely more than strong enough for most weekend warriors. I think for these people ease of use is going to be the important factor.
That stuff was not welded that was like caulk on there. You didn’t go deep enough I’m not a welder, but when I weld stuff like the old man said you’re trying to cook it all the way through who cares a bit pretty as long as it’s cooked all the way through, two pieces of metal turned into one
7014 is a fairly low penetration rod, and upping the amperage unfortunately doesn’t help much. It’s a great rod to use on thinner materials or in the flat position butt joints, where its lack of penetration is less of a concern.