@@zancrow_gaminghonestly for a lot of people bun isn't a new thing to learn it's just a different tool to use. Honestly 10 minutes using bun and it's pretty intuitive to anybody in the node ecosystem. There are rough edges right now, but if they fix those rough edges then it's not like learning a whole new thing
Keep in mind react has a huge bottle neck of re-rendering components and nextJs uses nodejs for api routes even with Bun. That’s why I’m a huge svelte supporter
You can choose whether you want to re-render or NOT and even whether you load the rendering on client or server so yeah in react it can re-render more than needed but only because you didn't program it correctly
@@mohammedissam3651 You're wrong. That isn't his benchmark. That's the one listed on the website. He uses bun v0.1.10 from when he showcases bun install. The rest I couldn't find.
What do you use for the benchmark? Also was this using their dev servers or a production setup? I'd like to know more about how different they are to configure for production.
for some reason deno & nodejs are the only ones competing right now in terms of performance. Currently nodejs 19.2.0 is faster for ssr-ing react (21k) while deno 1.29.1 comes at 18k requests a few months ago, deno was faster than node for average queries per second when loading a huge table in sqlite (30+ Queries). But then nodejs version 19 improved on the speed with 32 queries. And know Deno is 3 queries ahead (35) Ryan dahl really created an enemy for himself
So, Zig is not why Bun is faster. Having said that, what prevents Deno from using Safari’s JS engine and being as fast but more trustworthy because of Rust?
i could not find a good answer online so I will dare to infer the next: since it was Ryan Dahl the one that wrote Deno, i guess he wanted to use a tool that he was familiar with... I think it was hard enough to "rewrite" node in rust but to also add the difficulty factor of using a totally different js engine.
@@danvilela You must be too since your conclusion "Bun is not faster because of Zig" (and implying it's because of the safari engine) has no basis, it might be the case but literally no element in this video prove that, that's not how logic nor engineering work.
@@a-yon_n I know. I personally I use pnpm because bun still has a lot of incompatibility issues and pnpm has been great, but my question is about scalfolding/creating a new qwik project rather than installing and managing dependencies and packages.
@@charliegnu more like "which language and compiler implementation produces the most efficient llvm ir?" though you'd of course have to take into account the ecmascript runtime implementations as well to see if this would even be a good benchmark to use to generalize entire languages.
Coding branchless helps a bunch I think. Division and square roots are also slow, bit hacks are often fasted. Loops can be very slow too. And can you reduce the operations needed through refactorings? Zig doesn't do magic allocations, so that can make some difference compared to Rust or C++. I know that some C compilers do awesome optimization by checking for certain coding patterns, which is probably because people have been working for a long time on those compilers. So I think programs are usually bottlenecked by the code rather than the language when talking about these manual memory managed low-level languages.
But speed is like. Important. Bun is just easily usable. Drop in replacement from what I understand. And it's based on Safari so less vulnerabilities. Because chromium is based on Webkit. And that means it has more vulnerabilities.
@@Gamer-ct6hb "Bun is just easily usable", then show us your apps built with it, it's boviously not a drop in replacement, is beta software and as most things has its trade offs.
You just named sometimes slower languages. Except for rust and maybe Go. Just recommend C, Rust and Assembly. That's all we need. The others have less performance most of the time. Assembly is still the best for performance.
@@Gamer-ct6hb Go is fast while still feeling like a high level language, show us those real (non hello world or nonsensical) benchmarks where node/deno are faster than Go or even Java for that matter.
Bun is like vue. Another framework nobody asked for. React is just better than Angular & Vue. We have Node & Deno. Now Deno is supposed to be the replacement. Bun won’t be that replacement because Deno is that replacement at some point whenever node becomes deprecated.
@@harshhingu3082 That's not what makes something "better", being more versatile is just an aspect and most people actually don't care about native apps and/or use better solutions. The guy above is just trolling and is mostly a question of preferences. Vue is faster than React Vue is more "complete" than React, things like Routing, Transition etc are managed by the core team Vue has better APIs, need less boilerplate React has a broader ecosystem React has better TS support JSX vs Template is preference
Dude when he showed Hello World react app I broke🤣
I have this weird hunch that bun is going to be the runtime I build an app with in like 2-5 years.
It tries to be all-in-one tool, so
Yeah. We web developers can never catch a rest always gotta learn new languages and frameworks 😤
@@zancrow_gaminghonestly for a lot of people bun isn't a new thing to learn it's just a different tool to use. Honestly 10 minutes using bun and it's pretty intuitive to anybody in the node ecosystem. There are rough edges right now, but if they fix those rough edges then it's not like learning a whole new thing
@@zancrow_gaming literally took me 1hr to learn Elysia and bun basics. Their docs are amazing
Keep in mind react has a huge bottle neck of re-rendering components and nextJs uses nodejs for api routes even with Bun. That’s why I’m a huge svelte supporter
You can choose whether you want to re-render or NOT and even whether you load the rendering on client or server so yeah in react it can re-render more than needed but only because you didn't program it correctly
btw, which version of Bun, Node, and Deno did you used?
Good question
Edited: witchcraft
He used
1)bun v0.1.0
2)node v18.1.0
3)deno v1.23.2
No really it's in the beginning of the video 😅
probably the same versions bun used in their example
@@mohammedissam3651 You're wrong. That isn't his benchmark. That's the one listed on the website. He uses bun v0.1.10 from when he showcases bun install. The rest I couldn't find.
BLAZINGLY FAST
Is wicked faster than blazingly ???
We need some benchmarks for that
@@BboyKeny then its time to write another javascript benchmark library 😂😂
What do you use for the benchmark? Also was this using their dev servers or a production setup? I'd like to know more about how different they are to configure for production.
i wonder that also
for some reason deno & nodejs are the only ones competing right now in terms of performance.
Currently nodejs 19.2.0 is faster for ssr-ing react (21k) while deno 1.29.1 comes at 18k requests
a few months ago, deno was faster than node for average queries per second when loading a huge table in sqlite (30+ Queries).
But then nodejs version 19 improved on the speed with 32 queries. And know Deno is 3 queries ahead (35)
Ryan dahl really created an enemy for himself
Oh no, now node has to work on performace when its acrually getting some competition
@@echoptic775 I see it as a win
Nice it would be interesting to see a migration tutorial
Thanks for the video !
They are usually hot and fast when they are young. They get fat and slower as they get older.
Gotta try it
So, Zig is not why Bun is faster. Having said that, what prevents Deno from using Safari’s JS engine and being as fast but more trustworthy because of Rust?
i could not find a good answer online so I will dare to infer the next: since it was Ryan Dahl the one that wrote Deno, i guess he wanted to use a tool that he was familiar with... I think it was hard enough to "rewrite" node in rust but to also add the difficulty factor of using a totally different js engine.
Bro you can't get everything in one tech
@@sunejack7161 nevertheless, I am asking for the justification. This is engineering, every technical detail has an explanation. You must be new here
@@danvilela You must be too since your conclusion "Bun is not faster because of Zig" (and implying it's because of the safari engine) has no basis, it might be the case but literally no element in this video prove that, that's not how logic nor engineering work.
@@heroe1486 actually I got that from an article when bun was out. Thought you guys would know it too, but you must be new here then
Pewdiepie start coding?
bun bun time
I love using bun so far.
node will make some upgrades and beat both, we should wait before switching
Speed is not everything, e.g. is it making security shortcuts or not?
So what does that exactly mean . By building the apps in bun our websites will be faster than in node js ?
the response from your server will be faster when user requests data
when can I start scaffolding a new qwik project using bun?
You can use it as a replacement of npm, it’s extreamly fast when installing dependencies
@@a-yon_n I know. I personally I use pnpm because bun still has a lot of incompatibility issues and pnpm has been great, but my question is about scalfolding/creating a new qwik project rather than installing and managing dependencies and packages.
@@fahmitaib perhaps we should be bolder to explore the frontier
@@a-yon_n what?
is bun version 1 release?
It is now
Yeah, i tried bun and is fast
PNPM is very sad right now 😢😢😢😅😂
pnpm is package manager, not runtime
i just try Bun, i want to leave Node now, it so fast @@ freaking fast 💨
How to do benchmark load test and autorun is useless
Ничего не понятно но очень интересно
Все понятно, но вообще не интересно.
The bun is not even cooked
So is Zig faster than Rust
Both use LLVM to compile to machine code. Is LLVM faster than LLVM? Is machine code faster than machine code?
@@charliegnu more like "which language and compiler implementation produces the most efficient llvm ir?" though you'd of course have to take into account the ecmascript runtime implementations as well to see if this would even be a good benchmark to use to generalize entire languages.
Coding branchless helps a bunch I think. Division and square roots are also slow, bit hacks are often fasted.
Loops can be very slow too.
And can you reduce the operations needed through refactorings?
Zig doesn't do magic allocations, so that can make some difference compared to Rust or C++. I know that some C compilers do awesome optimization by checking for certain coding patterns, which is probably because people have been working for a long time on those compilers.
So I think programs are usually bottlenecked by the code rather than the language when talking about these manual memory managed low-level languages.
YES! Zig is faster than Rust
@charliegnu they're not the only compile languages that use LLVM. Or you mean all LLVM languages perform at same level?
that sounds like an AI voice
We don’t need it bro we have all the tech we need.
This
But speed is like. Important. Bun is just easily usable. Drop in replacement from what I understand. And it's based on Safari so less vulnerabilities. Because chromium is based on Webkit. And that means it has more vulnerabilities.
@@Gamer-ct6hb little benefit to make the switch, this is a toy app
@@Gamer-ct6hb "Bun is just easily usable", then show us your apps built with it, it's boviously not a drop in replacement, is beta software and as most things has its trade offs.
Here is the thing they all did that in one sec 🤣
if blink you miss it all 🤪
Hehe 420
Bun better than node
You know what is even faster and better? C#, Java, Go, Rust etc
You just named sometimes slower languages. Except for rust and maybe Go. Just recommend C, Rust and Assembly. That's all we need. The others have less performance most of the time. Assembly is still the best for performance.
depends, sometimes, sometimes, yes.
FTFY.
At least if we're talking raw performance
@@Gamer-ct6hb Go is fast while still feeling like a high level language, show us those real (non hello world or nonsensical) benchmarks where node/deno are faster than Go or even Java for that matter.
@@itsTyrion It's not "sometimes", in almost all cases those languages would crush any JS runtime for real world apps, JS devs are parrots
Ew it turned into React too quick...
Another framework that does the same thing😂
Bun is like vue. Another framework nobody asked for. React is just better than Angular & Vue. We have Node & Deno. Now Deno is supposed to be the replacement. Bun won’t be that replacement because Deno is that replacement at some point whenever node becomes deprecated.
What the fuck are you on about?
Idiot web dev
why/how is react better than angular and vue?
Maybe because with React Native we can make Android and IOS apps.
@@harshhingu3082 That's not what makes something "better", being more versatile is just an aspect and most people actually don't care about native apps and/or use better solutions. The guy above is just trolling and is mostly a question of preferences.
Vue is faster than React
Vue is more "complete" than React, things like Routing, Transition etc are managed by the core team
Vue has better APIs, need less boilerplate
React has a broader ecosystem
React has better TS support
JSX vs Template is preference