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What it Costs to Own Your Own Airplane | the Real breakdown
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
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In this video we'll break down the real costs for you to own your own airplane and see if you are savings money over renting a plane from a FBO and paying on the hobbs hour.
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0:00- Intro
0:26- Overview of cost to operate
1:52- Annual inspection cost
3:27- aircraft insurance and tie down costs
5:08- Financing and depreciation
5:44- Airplane fuel cost
6:10- Variable cost per hour
6:27- Total cost per hour comparison
8:37- Flight clubs or partial aircraft ownership
10:38 Time building and depreciation
11:32 owning your own airplane cost spreadsheet
11:52 my actual cost breakdown
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Old...er pilot here.
For starters most people own an airplane because they want one. There are side benefits as well but the biggest is convenience of no scheduling, knowing the airplane because it is yours and no one else is abusing it.
I have owned factory Builts and homebuilts as well as I currently own now and though most are economical to own..they present their own unique situations in maintenance, stability, flying characterics etc.
An airplane can be owned by most middle class income folks BUT your priorities must be there.
Friday night's at the bar, bowling, eating out, smoking, etc can be more expensive than aircraft ownership.
As far as saving time flying...sometimes but even if one has ratings such as I there are times when weather doesn't permit flight even if the pilot and airplane have the ratings and panel
In short,,is owning an airplane doable? In most cases yes but DO IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PASSION TO FLY AND REALLY WANT ONE...then the small sacrifices made to own it won't even cross your mind.
Now...go fly to breakfast and enjoy a sunrise like no other.
You nailed it. I always tell some of my friends that they are spending more money doing other activities than flying. Priority Priority Priority
And by the way, I am in the process of purchasing my own. I feel like we need to tell more aviation lovers that owning a plane is doable.
So....how do I convince my wife its a good idea though?
Shabuti R18 when you find out, let me know. An old client of mine told me “get it before you’re married, so she can’t say no.”
@@jayschipp7529 if you need permission from you wife to do something you love, you have the wrong wife.
My dad is an AME, a few pilots would trade annual inspection for a flight somewhere for my dad and I
I’d help do the work, pilot flys us to some remote lake and comes back a week later to pick us up (dad paid for fuel)
Pilot saved some money, we got some great flying and camping experiences
Everyone happy in those deals
David Anderson
Unforgettable trips! The last one was to fire lake British Columbia
Wasn’t a long flight time, no civilization in sight though
Excellent exchange! My instructor ferried planes for folks. When I got my license he offered me hours to assist him if it involved an SEL non performance. I guess we were legal...lol...I was just flying a plane.
Nowadays that would be considered a commercial operation in the U.S. because the pilot was receiving compensation for the *flight*. In the U.S. you can only "share costs" if the plane and pilot were going to that place anyway - no special trips allowed! Would anyone ever care...would anyone ever find out? Only if there was an accident or something that caught the attention of the FAA. And that never happens! Well, almost never happens...
@@ThatBobGuy850 Yea but..........🙊🙉🙈....🤫
If the pilots are non commercial that could be considered illegal payment for a flight.
I purchased a '72 150L for my daughter to get her ppl with. Your cost figures are very much inline with my real world costs. With patience and attention to detail, deals can be found. Then add a little sweat equity throughout the year, cost of ownership will absolutely surprise you.
So yes, these figures are inline with the real world. Thanks and keep the good information coming. 16yr old daughter and myself are throughly enjoying and learning from them.
Glad it helps! Fly Safe!
Hey it's me your daughter
iworksosumneednot no person when do is take a look at will spreadsheet hear of what everything costs involved with owning an aircraft so successful 150 we're going to look at our fuel burn oil burn engine deposit
ghost
Hi this is your brother!
I bet the insurance company figures that in most cases if you total your plane then there will be nobody left to pay!
Lol, not exactly, but funny point
🤣
What's on the gravestone??
Gone but not forgotten.
they would still pay to the estate.
Talk about black humour. sheesh. :)
That’s the reason motorcycle insurance is so cheap. Like $100/year cheap
I own my plane. Purchase in 1972. 1969 Cessna 150J. The cost in 45 years or so has been minimum.
I'm much older and still fly once or twice a month if possible. My grandson, is taking his private license.
I will pass on this aircraft once he's old enough to care for her. I've have taken excellent care to every little details.
Thank you
I wish my family flew and I could caretake one for them.
@@NicholasLittlejohn same
A few comments:
1. It's totally not true that your engine must be overhauled at TBO. The TBO number absolutely does not apply to pt 61 or pt 91 flying. In fact, many flight schools don't even do that. Studies show that engine failure happens in the first 250 to 500 hours after SMOH, not at the other end of the spectrum. Further, your engine doesn't magically decide to fail at some point. A better way to go is to do an oil analysis at every oil change, do a boroscope ever you pull plugs or have an annual done and pay attention to what your engine is saying to you from oil temps, oil burn and engine noise.
2. Annual cost is highly dependent upon the airplane type and location.
3. Tying down verse hangar...In many areas of the country, tying down will end up costing you in more in maintenance than having it hangared.
4. For a 150/2 doing the Mogas conversion would be advisable. The club I belong to, did exactly that. The cost to use the plane is $69.00/hr.
5. Proficiency really dictates that a pilot should be flying five hours per month (and not the same hour, doing the same thing, five times in a month.)
6. Insurance. The biggest thing you can do to get your insurance costs down is to build hours (above 250), fly more than 30 to 50 hours per year, and get your instrument rating. Of course, also keeping the plane hangared helps. As does belonging to the EAA and AOPA. Plus taking the insurance company recommended classes.
Just a note only because you asked: As far as certified non-LSA aircraft are concerned: I Piper Warrior has 25% less parts than does a Cessna 172. Plus, you've got to love the blue collar/off the shelf mentality that went into building them.
Great video. Keep it up.
Exactly!!!...Fly often to keep oil flowing. Change oil every 50hrs, put some good additives in, get annual and follow POH operating procedures. You can probably double TBO.
I know five people who earned their PPL and only one is still flying. He is recreational, as were the others, but his love of flying caused him to buy an airplane and house it in his own hanger in Idaho. But, a couple years ago he called and wanted to meet up where I live in California and I asked him if he was going to fly down in his airplane. He said no because it was too expensive to do so. What fun is that, why have an airplane? The other four had similar stories, for whatever reason they got their pilot's license and did the typical weekend flying gig by flying about an hour some popular fly in airports for lunch and then fly home. I suppose doing this got old and they simply got bored and gave up the hobby.
I know if I could ever afford to go through the training, I would have likely stayed with it because I love everything about flying, just being up in the air was a thrill and to be in control of an airplane, figuring out your flight plan, working the instruments and interfacing with controllers would be fascinating.
In my sales work I flew commercial for years, never got tired of looking out the window, always with small binoculars or a camera to take photos with. Later on I became the international rep and flew worldwide, but after 9/11 flying became drudgery, especially after the airlines cut out all the perks, added more seats and security screenings became painful with long lines. Flying wasn't fun anymore and I turned negative at the thought of just parking in the long term lot. However, if I had the opportunity to fly my own airplane, my attitude would change back in a heartbeat, no doubt in my mind.
Looking back, I'm sure my love of airplanes and flying came from the fact my father flew frequently in the 50s and 60s as the concert organist for the Hammond Organ Company. We used to see him off at the old San Francisco International airport, going to the gate and then up to the public open air balcony to watch his plane start up, taxi and then take off. It was much more exciting being at the airport back then, watching the sights, smell and sounds of commercial aircraft, the propeller driven iconic planes like the Super Constellation, DC7s and I used to get a kick out of seeing the first "screaming" turbo props and a large variety of all kinds of different aircraft back then. That all changed in 1960 when we witnessed the first American 707 jet fly over our house, opening a new era of flight. We lived under the take off flight path from SFO, fun to watch planes fly overhead, they did so frequently, but it wasn't fun when the noisy and belching black smoke jets started to fly over. They were so loud we could not hear conversation and learned to just shut up and stand there, ,as if you were taking a time out from living. This got old and it wasn't until some years later with the advent of quieter jets and noise abatement regulations that some welcome relief came. As an example of how noisy those jets were gave rise to a burglary ring called the "jet noise gang". They used the sound of a loud jet flying overhead to break into homes by window smashing as a cover to hide their activity.
Having two uncles who were jet fighter pilots obviously had an influence on my interest in airplanes and flying as well. If I could have afforded the cost of owning my own airplane, or even renting one, I'm sure I would still be flying to this day. Just the thrill of being in the air and viewing the earth below would have been enough to keep my motivation level high.
Buying a powered parachute may make more sense.
I'm searching for my first airplane. Probably will purchase a 150/152. I also have an A&P certificate, so will be able to save quite a bit in maintenance expenses.
Plan on becoming a proficient pilot and then teach all my 4 younger children how to fly. I'm excited!
Granddad was right when he quipped "If if floats, flies or fucks - rent it."
Yep I owned a plane. that is very true.
True. Maybe an exeption for the ultra light aircraft. In France renting is very expensive so if flying a lot it is better to own one.
$4.50 per gallon...
And here I pay 4.50€ per litre...
I want American fuel prices, lol
Come by and visit us!
And stop voting for socialists.
You what?? I call bullshit on that one ^^ I live in Norway, which is quite expensive, and I pay around 1,7 euro per litre...
Your taxes for all that 'free' healthcare and other services is the problem.
Here in Georgia, US, it's like $1.90/gal. Which I think would come out to £.90/liter or so.
Hi.Here in Europe, things are a bit different. I am in Poland and, obviously each EU state is slightly different, but generally speaking, a cost of Avgas is much higher.I pay 2.20$/litre or 8.40$/US gallon.Even so, Poland is still cheaper comparing to some other EU states.For that reason alone, it makes more sense to actually buy a modern Sports Light Aircraft like Sportcruiser or Tecnam with Rotax engine.Just like Cessna 150 it will take 2 people but will burn cheaper fuel at a lower rate. Cessna 150 will burn 6 US gallons /hour and Sportcruiser 4 US gallons/ hour.Therefore Sportcruiser will cost me 4x 4.5$/US gallon of Mogas=18$/hour and Cessna 150 6x8.40$/US gallon=50$/hour. THAT is WHOPPING almost 3 times more to fly Cessna 150 in terms of fuel cost. Sportcruiser will burn that fuel flying a bit faster than Cessna 150. Second hand Cessna 150 from the seventies will cost me roughly 50% of brand new Sportcruiser and 75% of 5 years old one. Sportcruiser will have better avionics and range so you can actually fly it somewhere. If you want to own your first aircraft here I would not consider Cessna 150 as my first choice.
Yeah but your currency is worth quite a bit more than ours. Dollar per dollaryour currency is worth 35% more than ours
I've been looking into getting my private pilots license and trying to figure out if it is feasible for me to consider purchasing my own plane when I get out of the Army and this video was very informative. Thank you for making it :)
I'd love to own a plane but the club I belong to only costs 36/hr wet for the C150 and 79 wet for the C182. owning is not happening at those rates
Nice! What is your monthly dues/buy in?
FLY8MA.com Flight Training $800 buy in $80/month
agree - you'll never own that cheap (safely)
Dan Kriston 36 hr wet...are you serious...i wish it was that low at my fbo...its 95$wet plus cfi
Unless you fly a monstrous amount, it's always more economical to rent or be a member of a club, because the fixed costs get spread around. However, that depends on availability of clubs/rentals and how far you have to go and so on.
All that having been said, your rentals are incredibly cheap. That isn't that much above just the fuel cost. That must be somewhere that fuel is very cheap, and hangars too.
Anything that flies, floats, or fornicates is cheaper to rent. That being said, there is something about knowing that your bird is going to be sitting on the ramp, ready to go when you want. You know who flew it last, how well it has been maintained, and where the last load of fuel came from. You don't have to deal with the rental people. That alone is a plus.
"...flies, floats, or fornicates..." I'M STEALING THAT!!!! LMAO!!!
beaconrider depends on how much you fly, there’s bound to be a crossover point if you fly relatively often. The owner can’t really rent a plane for less than their ownership costs.
everything you said also applies to the fornicates part of the equation as well haha
A 172 here in anchorage is 165-189 an hour dual 145-160 solo. typically you can fly a 172 at 8 GPH plus about 50$ an hour in hourly incidental saving. So I can own and fly for 80-90$ an hour solo and rent the instructor for 30-40 an hour so I’m saving roughly 50-70$ an hour. So basically for each 1-1.3 hours of renting I can fly my own plane for 2 hours. So for what I spend on a normal two hour rental ($304ish @ 152hr mean average) I would get 1.4-1.6 hours “free” that’s $134 for the average flight in savings multiply that by flying once a week means you save $6,968 a year. If you could somehow set aside that 7k each year you’d be able to overhaul/replace the engine every 3-4 years if you wanted. Or buy that fancy glass panel you want, or fly another 80 hours a year.
@@ravenmirabeau951 I second that!
In North Jersey Tie down are $275 month. Annuals with no major work or parts $1500 and Insurance $1100
Ridiculous, I'd just take it somewhere else for annual.
Wow, the price of a 150 has gone through the roof in just 4 years.
I love the first person view it makes me feel like I’m getting in the plane
In my Navy Flying Club, it cost $18 per hour for a 150. That was in 1979
Don’t worry about the “umms” haha, not sure what those other people mean by it. This is a very user-friendly video with 100% good intentions, and the fact you made it so personal and real was a huge benefit.
Definitely better than if it had sounded like a pre-recording or an advertisement.
Thumbs up
A 172 here in anchorage is 165-189 an hour dual 145-160 solo. typically you can fly a 172 at 8 GPH plus about 50$ an hour in hourly incidental saving. So I can own and fly for 80-90$ an hour solo and rent the instructor for 30-40 an hour so I’m saving roughly 50-70$ an hour. So basically for each 1-1.3 hours of renting I can fly my own plane for 2 hours. So for what I spend on a normal two hour rental ($304ish @ 152hr mean average) I would get 1.4-1.6 hours “free” that’s $134 for the average flight in savings multiply that by flying once a week means you save $6,968 a year. If you could somehow set aside that 7k each year you’d be able to overhaul/replace the engine every 3-4 years if you wanted. Or buy that fancy glass panel you want, or fly another 80 hours a year.
Syndicate is the cheapest way ..my syndicate has 14 members so fixed costs are reasonable.
I have found availability is not an issue if you book well ahead for a long flight of a week or so.
Hi. I'm brand new to your channel. I'm kind of an old guy (68 years old) to get started in aviation. Twenty-two years ago I had a stroke that took my right arm, leg, and other parts. I was going to the gym until Covid19 changed how we can't be together like before. The reason I spoke of going to the gym is that I'm beginning to get a little right leg movement again. Legs and arms are kind of important when you want to fly an aircraft. So no "certified" aircraft are easy to fly with just your left hand, so I started looking at "experimentals." But I noticed some experimentals look as if I could reach all the controls. I'm 6'5" and have 37" arms.
I like to put stuff down on a spreadsheet so I REALLY know how much something costs. Another thing you might consider is for the person flying could choose to fly an "Experimental" plane. You might say it can cut your" life." That's true but most "experimentals" are well made, you can do your own maintenance and you have the freedom to choose a little peppier engine & prop.
Course you can't put an 800 hp engine into an airframe only meant only to carry a person at 110 knots with an old 110 hp engine. The plane will start falling apart very soon after your old 150 hp engine gets replaced by an 800 hp engine. But you can do some homework and find an "experimental" plane manufacturer that has a good reputation. So, you can cut your annual cost flying a different kind of plane. An "experimental."
I’m an A&P so now this is looking even cheaper to me
Colton Tallman Oh that’s great. I’m looking forward to go to school to become an A&P after my senior year of high school. Then I’ll be looking forward to getting a private license >:D
When I was getting my private pilot license, I purchased an extra insurance policy, because the flight school had a $2500.00 deductible, that the student was responsible for. The insurance for me was only $25.00 a month with a $50.00 deductible, and also included a $100,000.00 insurance on my life. Renting a Cessna 150 was Very affordable, and NO monthly costs.
You have some Great info! Thanks so much.
Lloyd Morrison I'm planning on moving to Tampa Florida and I'm interested in considering obtaining my pilot license and renting a plane. Would that be better than flying with a commercial airline? I never considered this route before but I think flying myself is a new adventure.
I have owned a few airplanes over 35 years. My first was a 150L. I'd suggest changes to your spreadsheet. For one thing, the O-200 in the 150 has no oil filter, so the maintenance manual calls for oil changes at 25 hours, not 50. The fuel flow estimate is a little high at 5.5 gph - I averaged under 5 gph for the 600 hours we had a 150. You omitted a couple cost items. One is the static and transponder cert every 24 months. These days, anyone who flies to get places will also pay for some kind of chart and database subscription. On the 150 there are a few repetitive maintenance issues. One is the starter drive, another is stuck exhaust valves (unless running mo-gas), and I budget for spark plug and vacuum pump replacement. Those items may add a couple bucks an hour to operating costs. Your basic approach using a spreadsheet is spot on. I have one very similar to yours, but with larger numbers, for my R182.
Some have a spin on oil filter adapter, or it can be added.
Thank you for the info! I'm a student pilot seriously considering buying a plane to train and build some hours in. Very helpful!
I can only dream of $55/month for a tie down. The monthly rate for a standard tie down at the local airport, San Carlos Airport (KSQL) here in the San Francisco Bay Area is $139/mo. But you are right that most places seem to hover around $55/mo including most other parts of California.
+jaycee31415 ooo...That is rough. Would hate to have to buy fuel over there too. Would probably be trying to burn mogas
I remember San Carlos airport well because I grew up in South San Francisco. I would say San Carlos or any airport in and around silicon valley is going to be expensive. I would venture to say these airports have limited space as well because there are many people there making big bucks in the electronics industry.
Bought a C-150 4 months ago and my costs are pretty much in line with yours except the maintenance costs can go down quite a bit if you do the work yourself. Insurance for me as a zero time student was $640/year for $15k hull. Taking my checkride in 3 weeks then I will pass the plane to the next guy.
93mclaren nice! How did your check ride go? Looking to go on this same route soon
Get a quad copter instead, for about $800 for everything total (including workdesk tools) you can have something that will fit in a backpack, that you can drive to anywhere scenic, and be up in the air in minutes. Fly around, look around for 3-20 minutes, land, go on to the next scenic spot. No risk to your neck, no pilots license or training to get, fly fast and low or longrange and high. It's cheaper than even paramotors, or ultralights, or hang gliding, or gliding. fpv.air-war.org
In a few years when the mortgage and car are paid off, and credit card balances are down lower (I live in a small rural Southern town that has nothing but an, ugh, Walmart, so most anything I need or want I have to get online), I might be able to get a surplus D7 Battle Cruiser or ancient Cessna 172. A limiting consideration is the nearest CFI is almost sixty statute miles away.
I paid $39/hr wet solo in a rental C152II back in '98 when I was training back in the day when aviation was affordable.... I have a light trike and seeking training for it before I maiden .... training for those things is a whopping $115 - $175/hr dual instruction. Thanks for the ownership costs break down on a plane I may be interested in owning privately....
Including monthly flying club dues, I pay 45.60 per hour for a C150 at 100 hrs per year. Beats owning and renting and I'm insured through the club (Hull & Liability) included in that rate.
Ummm. Love your vids, they helped me pass ground test, thanks. I used to say umm a lot, I replaced it with just a space of silence.
I think you need to do another cost ownership video, (after covid prices.) Everything is probably double those costs now.
For utility and actually being able to do meaningful cross countries, I would recommend the AA5A Grumman Cheetah. 125kts 7.4gph with 4 people and a good distance. The 180hp Grumman Tiger will get you there slightly faster but at a much higher burn rate. Love mine!
Thank you for this video. I am about to enter flight school with a boyhood dream of becoming a commercial pilot. My wife's dad owns 2 planes and she said we should just take his. I thought about selling my sports car out right so I can buy a good condition used plane. I figure I will miss the sports car but in the long run in commercial land, I can always buy another...and some!!! :)
My dream house is to have a medium house with a big plot of land to put a soft strip and a mini hangar. I'd want an Extra 300, and a Cubcrafter, and if I truly become rich- some form of four seater to island hop across the Atlantic.
Doing a biochem major to get there tho lol
That sounds awesome!
Good Vid John...for my first plane, I bought one with two buddies and we had a bank account that we deposited to each time we flew...worked great. One thing you many want to include are AD's (Airworthiness Directives.) Usually there are a few AD's so maybe factor in another 3-500 a year...note that AD and Annual expenses differ for retractable gear aircraft and certainly if you are flying a twin.
Thank you for taking the time to explain airplane ownership cost vs. renting. The county where I live levies yearly personal property taxes and airplanes are taxed at a rate of $4.68 per $100 of assessed value (same rate as automobiles), which will add to ownership cost.
I'm glad you got to see another side then! Best of luck with any ownership journey
This is the first time I've seen this channel. I'm finally seeing answers to practical question that nobody ever seemed to talk about regarding cost. I thought is was much higher. Thanks !
The only discrepancy I see here is that most people are not going to own their own hangar plus yes you did add the price for fuel but not for a full tank of AV gas which adds substantially.
VERY realistic numbers. WELL DONE !!
I have owned a 1964 C172 for many years, and I can beat these numbers consistently, every year.
Mogas STC = I beat your fuel costs
Same mechanic for many years, so we have mutual trust, and he has taught me to do many of the basic maintenance myself. (more savings)
Tie-downs at my airport run 55 bucks per month. (hangar is over 400 per month, so, that's not an option)
Obviously, adding toys and goodies (like upgrading the avionics, or, adding a new paint job) blows the budget BIG time... but if you don't have the $$, you simply choose not to do it. (she still fly's lovely even when the paint is ugly:)
My AA1 costs based on 75 hrs a year: Insurance and parking $37 Fuel $45 and maintenance $60 an hour (Cdn funds). The last couple of annuals have been costly!
Nice and informative vid. One critisim for us newbies....Please explain the acronyms you use so we don't have to stop the vid and google what it is you are talking about. Specifically you throw around three acronyms: hobbs, fbo and A&P tech. Would take only an extra minute to explain the acronyms that you seem to think everyone already knows.
Sold! Rates here are $150/hour so definitely more economical to own.
Keeping eye out for a clean 150.
Hope it works out for ya!
This is a fantastic video. Especially for myself, someone who has 12 hours spread out over 14 years oh, haha. I can't wait to own my own plane it's an experience I would love to enjoy with my son
Keep with it, it will be worth it!!
I believe it's probably true that 85+% of flying is one person in the plane. That makes a Cessna 150 the cheapest way to go for recreational flying. Then you rent a 172 when you have a companion and split the cost, or a 182 if there are three.
Yup, they're actually starting to push some new single seat LSAs for that very fact
FLY8MA.com Flight Training How about C172
I own a Lancair 360. Cost per hour is incredible (225mph @ 8 gph); but the fixed costs kill me. I wish I would have been able to find a partner early on to split it with.
Before you get together with with other guys I suggest you make sure you have similar values/outlooks. There is nothing worst than joining a syndicate only to find that one of your fellow pilots is happy leaving his old coffee strap in with the maps! Perhaps they think a heavy landing is just a bit of fun and I am sure there are still the odd pilot that actual believes that pre-flight checks just involve kicking the tires; joining a syndicate may sound great but it may cost you more than you think if you don't join the right one
Multiple owners could be a problem. I have done this with 2 other friends a few years ago, all I will say it's a good way to lose friends for the pettiest of reasons. Won't do that again.
Haha, ya it certainly can be challenging when you have different ideas....best to have really well ironed out "rules" or "bylaws" before going in with partners.
a rock solid partnership agreement helps this go smoother. there is an old saying; "A little paperwork between friends makes for better friends" (or something like that)
Anything important... or anything that involves money... should always be put into writing.
Okay, I have owned and operated 12 aircraft. There are a lot of factors to consider. How much do you fly? My rule of thumb was 100 hours a year to be cost effective. If you can find a good well maintained 150/152 ( I prefer the 152) you'll be lucky. Most have spent their lives in flight training schools and lead a hard life. I have owned Mooney's, Cessna 150's and 152's, I have owned 182's and my last aircraft was a Turbo 206. My first airplane wasTomahawk. Which was cheap. The most important thing one can do is a pre-purchase inspection. That'' save you a lot of headaches. Second, consider how much you'll fly and what avionics you want on your little bird. Avionics are not cheap, Annual inspection can be costly as well. Fuel and insurance can vary with your time and experience. If you use the plane for training expect to pay more for insurance. Been flying these birds for over 30 years and was a former DPE and flight school owner.
You can get a kitfox or a cub and get waaay better fuel consumption with a much higher cruise speed and not even have to have a private pilot licence and have a better aircraft then the Cessna 150
I owned a 172n and the cost for tie downs and gas are way higher today with gas at almost $6/gal and takedowns of $120/mo.
You really can't do anything with a 150 except fly yourself. If yoy habe a family or want to fly with friends you need a 172. FBOs around here in NY are getting about $120/hour - wet
A lot depends on where you live. Here on the CO front range a C150 would be impractical due to winds and our 6500ft alt here in COS. I've sliced and diced the math and it's a bridge too far. You basically have to have a hanger here due to hail and the harsh elements, the only tie downs I see are transient aircraft. Even if I was given a FREE airplane the fuel, oil, ins, annual, mnx, small reserve for upgrades/overhaul and it's pushing $15,000 annually based on 100 flying hrs. And that's not factoring in the plane itself! You can rent a GPS IFR equipped C172SP or even a Hawk XP for about $150/hr. It comes down to wanting the flexibility and prestige ownership gives you. Here, you need deep pockets. I'm not convinced that older light aircraft are much of an equity investment but not sure on that.
10 GPH on climb for a 172 Cessna and cruise average, unless you are riding the downwind and the jet stream. I beg to differ the differentiation from said 150 to 172. It has been said that the majority of fuel burn and climb time on a 150 by Rod Machado, was the majority of his accumulation of PIC time! Vx or Vy! Confim please!
Appreciate the video but why use a 150 as a baseline comparison ? A 172 is a more reasonable plane for someone's first purchase .
Just doing one airplane per video, I've owned 14 different airplanes, so I'm just going to be using data from ones I've actually owned and maintained rather than estimates. I'll have some up for a cherokee, aeronca, 172, etc. Just the more common ones.
define reasonable
Really, the only thing your costs would change are the Fuel burn, and the Money Invested. I think the other costs are nearly same.
I trained in a C150. Nothing unreasonable about that. Cheap way to fly. As they say, "a great time machine."
A 172 is also a great investment! They hold their value, in fact appreciate in value.
Found your video informative. Makes flying sound more reasonable for the average person. Another plus would be the ability to fly when you want verses when a plane is available to rent.
i don't fly, but I've always had an interest in. Problem being I could never afford one! But, I found your monetary breakdown very interesting because I always wanted to know what the real cost of owning an airplane would be, now I know. Thanks a lot for the information.
Yes, exactly what that John said.
2 years ago, these numbers would’ve had me drooling. Since then, I’ve bought and sold a good old 1973 Cessna 150L. I can tell you life doesn’t play out quite as cleanly as a spread sheet of averages. Also, as a career-minded guy, while I DID still save money by buying a C150 (compared to renting), what I DIDN’T save was time. Having money tied up in the plane kept me from working on my ratings, and put me behind about 18 months. This video isn’t “un-true”; it just depends on what you want the airplane for.
Such a good channel...my heart is heavy for the lady pilot that stalled and crashed...she sounded like a lovely woman.
Question, here in Europe if we land away, we are charged quite significant landing fees, depending on the type of airfield we land at. Do you guys in the states not have to pay these ?
Um ya, we generally do not. Fuel here is about $3-$4/ gallon, never charged ATC fees, and rarely charged landing fees. Often times you will have to pay a tie down fee if parking somewhere overnight. I'd say those average around $5 per night or $55 per month, depending on how long you park there. If you buy gas they generally waive all the fees if there are any. You can say what you want about our politics, but this is the best country in the world to fly!
It sounds like flying General Aviation in Europe is a real drag. I love Motorcycle Touring there, but I'd never fly their, way too expensive; fuel that is 4x as much, and countless fees; no thanks.
Couldn't you do part time work, such as pipeline inspection, and then write off all your expenses?
Interested in cost per hour analysis of Grumman AA5B Tiger
I'm buying a 150 because I'm tired of hoping an airplane is available then driving an hour to get to it. I just want to go to my local airport and actually spend my time flying. That and the ability to take it out for a weekend without scheduling months in advance and hoping the weather is good the entire time
a 100k plane cost roughly 1700 a month to own and house in a hangar and fly. You can "own" one for a little cheap and not fly but what would be the point? You can also fly the crap out of one for as much as 2300 a month. The cheapest part of owning a plane in the cost of the plane itself...
I have to say, thank you for making this video! I heard Grant Thompson make a passing reference about buying an airplane to log hours for his license (and how that wound up costing less than renting) and I've been digging into the cost of a plane, maintenance, etc as a response and found this video very informative!
Thanks! Glad it helps! Certainly consider buying or starting a club!
This has helped shed some light.What about fractional ownership vs renting?Our fbo is $150 wet for an hour plus renters insurance.We have both tie down and hangers.But the hangers are more so reserved for the expensive planes.
Great vid! If it's not too much work, I'd like to see something like this for some nicer planes, such as a Bonanza or an SR20/22
We'll get something put together here soon!
I can tell you from experience the sr20 is much (much) higher, but its also a lot more useful airplane. If you just want to fly yourself around for fun, the 150 is hard to beat for costs... but I can't imagine trying to use it to travel anywhere.
5 hour student pilot and got a quote about 850 bucks a year for a 150. pretty neat
tie downs at my local airport are $180+ per month (no it is not a commercial airport)
in Australia i pay $300 hour for a 172
Here on the GoldCoast I pay 380 for 152 and for 172 440bucks pretty fucking expencive.
TAXES: I didn't see sales TAX for the purchase, use TAX, or property TAX.
These taxes vary state to state.
What about purchasing the plane in a LLC? I've seen a few times.
Good video!
LLC in California is $850 per YEAR. in Arizona an LLC is $45 per year. California wants 1% "property tax" on the value of the plane if it is based in California more than 30 days a year. Those rates will probably change year to year. They were accurate in 2017.
After hanging around a boat owner in the 1980s, I believe my most important parameter is... Living where you keep it. In this case I would want to own a house in one of those rarer residential airparks. These being houses with hangars and a shared airstrip. No cause to fuss about an object miles away and you certainly cannot be without the needed tools when working on it. Of course, then the downside is the absence of convenient fueling and on and on. And no, a tie down would not be enough for me anyway. My problem? I do not have the money!!!
That engine replacement is malarkey.... i used to rebuild rotax engines and the aviation stuff always came in well within factory tolerances... the electronic components are far more likely to fail after 100 hours than any of mechanical components....
And 90 % of engine related Rotax powered aviation applications are fuel and fuel delivery related failures.... Not to mention marine applications have way higher quality external components, especially ignition components.... Also a huge pain in the ass to rebuild them because of the insane amount of paperwork involved with EVERY part, every gasket and every cotter pin
Rental prices for the Skyhawk at the airports I rent out of are hard to beat. $95 an hour, and that is with the tax INCLUDED. Granted they still have the antique panel.
Pride of ownership is the number one reason for me. Got tired of beat up rentals
you forgot the propeller overhaul. recommended tbo is about 6 years or 2200 hours. estimate between 750 to 1000 for a fixed pitch propeller oh.
I would like to see a comparison between owning a certfied vs an experimental.
thank you so much for posting this. I was scared to get my PPL and A & P due to seeing news stories about it being dangerous but now im looking into getting my own plane and getting my PPL/A&P. plus seeing that you can rent out your plane is pretty cool.
Very interesting break down, a great starting point for a lot of thought. I’d like to see one possibly that factors in taking a note on an airplane, say alone for $30,000, that would certainly change the dynamics quite a bit
I am guessing these prices are in U.S dollars....up here in Canada..that same 100hr service will cost between $1000- $2,000 but still nice breakdown of costs and appreciate the time you took to break it down.
All in USD, and most everything for airplanes is cheaper here in the States compared to anywhere else in the world.
When you rent a plane and they charge by the hour is that flight time or real time? Like say I fly to a destination five hours away and then stay there for the day and come back 5 hours flight making it 10 total but I had the plane maybe 18 hours. Do I pay the 10 hours or 18?
Flight time (hobbs time). Once the prop’s turning, the meter is running. Also, many FBOs charge an overnight fee (the FBO I rented from charged $50 per night the aircraft was gone, in addition to hobb hours).
I plan to buy one of your courses in 2019 as I want to learn to fly.
Also some parts that are not airworthy any more still have value as some times aircraft engines are adapted on to other things such as air boats where hours does not mean as much so selling them drops the cost as well
I paid $35 an hour for a Cessna 152 getting my license. 1985 ...
What a wonderful time it was.
I paid around $60 @, hour for my PPL in 1991
Great break down thanks for posting! Buying a Cessna 150 currently.
Nice!!
Do you have cost sheet for 172 182? This was very helpful. Thank you for your time.
cost to purchase is higher in both of those. the 172 burns about 7.5 GPH. a 182 burns about 12-13 GPH. You should be able to make your own spreadsheets... otherwise, perhaps you are not ready to be a pilot...
@@MrZrryan2 oh man…. I can’t use spreadsheet…. I can’t be a pilot?
At about 5:30 or so you are speaking of insurance and you mention that deductible is pretty cheap at $250. You do know that the higher the deductible the cheaper the insurance right? If you file a claim the deductible is the portion of the claim you have to pay.
TBO is time between overhaul. Many fly their engines well past this number. So making a distinction between Hobbs and Engine time is not really useful. When an engine is overhauled or replaced is not defined in the FARs...so it's a personal decision.
A plane tied down versus hangared gets beat up more and largely depends on where in the country the plane is stored.
In general, you can find a generic per hour cost to own from most makes and models. No need to pour over a spreadsheet of assumptions.
Flying a plane shared has it's risks too. People may not be as careful, fly as well, land as well, and play with the knobs and dials in the plane. Insurance is also based on the LEAST experienced pilot/owner in a group.
I want to build a kitfox experimental I can fold the wings back keep it in a enclosed trailer on the side of my house. Since it's experimental I can do my own work on it.
Excellent video - covers all the basics. I have owned 6 aircraft - often 2 at a time - good analysis. And sometimes it's just "worth it" anyway
I am a student sport pilot getting ready for checkride. I am buying a new plane. The aero legion or l600 is 150000. It will come with auto pilot, full dynon glass panel, leather heated seats, parachute for the plane and rotax 914 turbo engine. A 30 year old 150 is nothing I want to fly across country in.
I do not know of any 3% guaranteed fixed rate without risk? You may be right in several years, but I love your flight videos. Rent is the best way and have a CFI thrown in like you! Still cheaper.
5 year CD? Not without risk, but there.
Different "aviation cost" videos give wildly different prices for annuals, as someone new to aviation, I'd like to get a realistic price for an annual. Another video I just saw was stating $3K to $5K for an annual (labor plus parts) for his 1963 Mooney, which he got down to maybe 2 grand for an owner assisted annual. That video also claimed $10K for his first annual due to lots of repairs since he had just bought it. My guess is the type of aircraft greatly affects the cost of the annual? How likely is it one will find a clean 150 Cessna that doesn't need a lot of parts initially at that price?
Also, I have a related cost question that confuses me. I took a look at the cost of brand new aviation engines, and one typical list will show 100-135 hp engines for $14,000 to $40,000 from one company (Rotax), then another company (GM) may sell a 300 hp engine for only $9000. How is it smaller aviation engines are more expensive than larger ones?!? Are non-US engines tariffed heavily or something?
Annual is a fixed, usually book cost.
The annual induced maintenance (the stuff the A&P finds, or that you tell him about and want fixed) is not strictly part of the annual. Many people get the two confused.
You said you would put a couple of other spreadsheets comparing costs of different airplanes including a Mooney. I checked out your website (Nice job!) but only found the 150 spreadsheet. I'm considering purchasing a Mooney m20j and having a spreadsheet to look at for that would be fantastic. Great job on your videos too!
In CO an owner assisted annual for a 150 is around $850.00. If you know anyone who does it cheaper please let me know.
What if you bought a Cesna 150 and rented it out to a flight club who needed an extra plane? You could own the airplane, use the money you make off the rent to save for your flight training, and when you're done sell the plane to the flight club to recoup the initial investment or keep it for personal use. Thoughts?
I think this is all ok on paper but just to be aware that reality can sometimes be a lot different. If you are expecting a group of friends to fly a certain number of hours a year, to keep costs at a more manageable level, you can normally pretty much half what they say they will fly due to various reasons. In my experience people joining a group will over estimate the number of hours they say they will fly by quite a margin. A group that I had been involved in, most people said they would fly between 30 and 40 hours per year, including myself, but the reality was more like 15-20 hours. With a group of 16 people, as your spreadsheet demonstrates, this can be a large cost increase/hour. I would also always try and factor in a contingency fund just in case you suddenly get a large unexpected maintenance bill. Anyway may you be blessed with great flying weather.
Unrealistically low! Annual is $1200 + labor + parts, etc..extra. Tie-down is NOT standard 55 a month, it's 105 month here is PA and pretty standard. Insurance cost is low. AOPA Insurance Services estimates a $25,000 Cessna 150 or 152 flown by a 100-hour (total time) pilot will cost $750 per year to insure. That's one of the least expensive airplanes in the fleet to insure. These are 2021 estimates. I own a Grumman AA1B, bought it in 1980. Hey, gas....I just paid &5.40/gal @ avg of 8 GPH and my average is 25-32 Hrs a year.