Watching this video I come to think of David Foster Wallace and how happy he probably would have been to see his good friend, Johnathan Franzen, have a conversation with the great writer and mentor, Don DeLillo.
Coincidentally, I just came from listening to an interview with Wallace, where he says he probably wouldn't go to an author interview like this... "except for maybe Don DeLillo"
I don't think people in this comment section understand the definition of the word "pretentious". adjective attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed. With that being said, Franzen and DeLillo both possess a great talent of on point observations of modern life. they are not pretentious, they "think" If you're going to call someone pretentious because they like to "think" rather than just give readers the same trivial, telegraphed, uninspired bullshit that Michael Bay fans love to be fed on a daily basis, than, here's an idea, go pay attention to that shit.
Regarding those criticizing this exchange as "pretentious", "garbage", etc, it never ceases to amaze me how Americans are so intent on holding to the standard of dumbing everything down. So that in America what is cool and hip and "in" is the glib, the superficial, the idiotic. God forbid two intelligent writers should have an intelligent conversation at the level necessary to express their ideas. Only in America would the masses be threatened by this. Only in America is intelligence sneered at. Is there any wonder we've become a nation of the profoundly dense and dumb?
matthewyesitis The Counselor was in no way a good movie. Novelists, even great ones, rarely transition into great screenwriters. And even if they do, it's almost always thanks to the director who often makes creative liberties with a given screenplay to fit the visual format. Ridley Scott was a wrong choice for director; his need to create visual spectacle obscured any philosophical depth the story actually had.
Screen writing is a lower form of art than novel writing. People are generally stupid. Look at the views on a video like this compared to one of the innumerable idiotic videos that has a billion + views.
DeLillo drops little asides in his prose that pierce to the heart. From 'Players' about terrorists killing a target on the golf course, this: 'Golf, that anal round of scrupulous caution and petty griefs.'
Out of all these comments I only saw one that actually said anything was pretentious. And then 60 comments all saying it is not pretentious. Chill out guys.
If I were ever the host to one of these I'd bang out the necessary information, including anything about me IF that's necessary, so fast my intro would be studied by students of advertising in 15-second time slots. Get. that. shit. out. of. the. way.
This isn’t pretentious... but Franzen is obviously trying to impress DeLillo and he’s trying too hard. Notice the language. ( this is one of many examples and a fairly simple one but), Franzen keeps saying things like: ‘It may come later, it may arise later...’ leading up to a question. He’s purposely editing his sentences out loud, adjusting his vocabulary from simple to unnecessarily complex, probably because he’s nervous. DeLillo never brings this up but notice That it takes quite a while to understand where Franzen is going in his questioning and then notice that DeLillo responds mostly using language that a five year old could understand...
Franzen is not being pretentious lol. Contrived to a degree? Sure. But who wouldn’t be? You’re talking to a stupendous author in front of a crowd. It’s the inner-author in Franzen that desires to keep the conversation light and the audience halfway entertained. What would be pretentious is if Franzen asked some super nuanced questions. If you think these are questions that Franzen would ask in private, then you’re underestimating the intelligence of these two men. These are extremely open-ended questions with the intent of engaging Delillo and the crowd together, not just Delillo himself. Franzen is certainly not challenging him.
Taylor Caron So you mean - "If you describe someone as ADJECTIVE then you are ADJECTIVE." I'm not sure that that is always true. I think people that are pretentious use complex words when they could use simple words to express something. They just show off (bully others) because the derive self worth from the belief that they are intelligent/verbose. The sad truth is that they are just insecure. DeLillo and Franzen are boring writers. They may be clever/educated but they're deeply boring.
ecaepevolhturt to bully others? While you could be right you also could be off the mark. Should you be ashamed of vocabulary (especially in this age)? I was under the impression pretension was a hallmark of writers either embraced or masked. I think it has far more to do with insecurity than "bullying." That's just a bad word choice, smacks of social fascism. Apply knowledge, craft, skill or wisdom in another trade, occupation, hobby etc... Would you refer to someone as a bully because they utilize nuance and complexity in there field to show themselves studied and approved and to separate themselves from the rest of the pack? Could they be concise, could they use commonalities, could they not be so damn pretentious? Yes, absolutely, but that speaks to their insecurity as writers and so would bullying, allowing that is the case, be an out-working of that insecurity (fear). However if I've ever felt lesser than in an intellectual engagement it's forced me to face that and put in some work. I don't feel bullied, just like I don't feel bullied by a better basketball player.
People saying pretentious--that's all Franzen. I don't hear pretentious with Delillo. Franzen has that very affected intellectual lilt to his voice. Very annoying.
Looks like DeLillo doesn't want to be shown speaking on camera, curious. Here's a penetrating comment on DeLillo I found, : "Falling man", [the pixels 911 twin towers] heralded like one of his "finest novels", is a tragic product of bamboozle and malice... unfortunately when the truth will be all out, this will take the name of Delillo down with it... The adventurous parts of the book are all staged on the day of 9/11, and all these parts are just FANTASIES created by watching, probably over and over, the photos and the videos, and reading the witnesses reports. Apparently never, during the whole process that apparently took years, this great genius of the American Novel had the uneasy feeling of being in presence of Fakery. Even without figuring out that the whole thing could be and was produced in a studio, in front of a machine, how not to see that these elements he was feeding his talents with lacked the variety, the unpredictability and the accidents of reality? Oh, but he was going to make the unreal sound real. I think this whole book is an act of pride more than anything else, the pride of the writer who will prove he can turn anything, any lie, into truth...
Do you, like, enjoy reading? If anything your pride is getting in the way of appreciating a work of *fiction*. In other words, and kindly (because it can only be wrong to waste precious time on such trivial nonsense), get over yourself; read a book you enjoy and find meaningful instead.
well, you know what they say. one man's trash is another man's transparent rainboot footfetish. heinrich clearly adored the airborne toxic event. franzen is an interloper, to be sure. every medium of every sort has at least one. they spawn like ambystoma and array themselves onto your psychic zendstation smilde like the blackened puke-green screen of a gameboy. game over, man. eventually the effigy will replace the article. a franzen, this one or another one maybe, will write the epitaph
Good lord….not sure how anyone can listen to lisping lisperer Delillo talk out-loud, it’s like being in Hell….it’s probably doing damage to the psyche so deep that it’s probably unrepairable… he probably became a writer because no one could stand to listen to his voice and would be hard to get a job dealing with the public face to face….it’s a horror show of all horror shows
+colinwriter Why is this pretentious? I just don't get it. So they are talking to each other and you don't find it suits your way of talking, your wife's way of talking enough so the only thing it can be is pretentious. Dude, calling people pretentious is probably the most pretentious thing ever.
mystical (adj.) late 15c., "enigmatic, obscure, symbolic," from mystic + -al (1). Related: Mystically. Meaning "having spiritual significance" is from 1520s. Those first three adjectives embody DeLillo's prose style/content. Don't assume the meaning of 'mystical.'
Eli F Delillo has a way of writing that can definitely feel mystical. A mixture of keen psychological and philosophical observation mixed w/ a humorous and suspicious takedown of modern society. It’s a wise and agile voice. I’d recommend checking out White Noise and The Names. Great Jones Street. Go from there.
DeLillo is brilliant and his spoken words are heartfelt runs on his life and art.
Watching this video I come to think of David Foster Wallace and how happy he probably would have been to see his good friend, Johnathan Franzen, have a conversation with the great writer and mentor, Don DeLillo.
Coincidentally, I just came from listening to an interview with Wallace, where he says he probably wouldn't go to an author interview like this... "except for maybe Don DeLillo"
I am just now nearly at the end of Don DeLillo's "End Zone," which is -- frankly -- one of the best things I've ever read. Simply amazing.
Franzen was the one who introduced DFW to DeLillo via letters. The three of them had dinner once, too.
@@liammcooper me too
ew
I didn’t find this conversation pretentious at all. It was actually quite humorous at times. I enjoyed this.
The Angel Esmeralda is one of the best short stories I have ever read.
I love that our mystical writer still writes all his mystical prophesies on an old manual typewriter he bought in 1975.
I don't think people in this comment section understand the definition of the word "pretentious".
adjective
attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
With that being said, Franzen and DeLillo both possess a great talent of on point observations of modern life.
they are not pretentious, they "think"
If you're going to call someone pretentious because they like to "think" rather than just give readers the same trivial, telegraphed, uninspired bullshit that Michael Bay fans love to be fed on a daily basis, than, here's an idea, go pay attention to that shit.
Justin Lance: have a day.
Well put ...
this is a pretentious ass comment
and dogmatic.
...and exclusionary.
A discussion between writers for writers. Wonderful.
Regarding those criticizing this exchange as "pretentious", "garbage", etc, it never ceases to amaze me how Americans are so intent on holding to the standard of dumbing everything down. So that in America what is cool and hip and "in" is the glib, the superficial, the idiotic. God forbid two intelligent writers should have an intelligent conversation at the level necessary to express their ideas. Only in America would the masses be threatened by this. Only in America is intelligence sneered at. Is there any wonder we've become a nation of the profoundly dense and dumb?
matthewyesitis The Counselor was in no way a good movie. Novelists, even great ones, rarely transition into great screenwriters. And even if they do, it's almost always thanks to the director who often makes creative liberties with a given screenplay to fit the visual format. Ridley Scott was a wrong choice for director; his need to create visual spectacle obscured any philosophical depth the story actually had.
Dykthemonkey x
Screen writing is a lower form of art than novel writing. People are generally stupid. Look at the views on a video like this compared to one of the innumerable idiotic videos that has a billion + views.
@@DykthemonkeyI liked it
Really nice !
DeLillo drops little asides in his prose that pierce to the heart. From 'Players' about terrorists killing a target on the golf course, this: 'Golf, that anal round of scrupulous caution and petty griefs.'
4:13
Its really great
DeLillo sounds so much like older Paul Newman, it’s crazy.
Love Don Delillo. The real deal.
"A well-choreographed exchange of insight and dimensional perspectives." (RAS IV)
Out of all these comments I only saw one that actually said anything was pretentious. And then 60 comments all saying it is not pretentious. Chill out guys.
*Loottta comments been deleted my man
Bronx boy wondering why he is here
i follow the guy who made ur pic on instagram he's great
deep reference
Podcast with still photos.
I'm in Silicon Valley and not wealthy. Much internet "video" is like that for me. I've gotten use to it. Maybe the future is getting to you, too.
@@alexcarter8807 I fully concur. Thank you for the response.
Introduction from Dieter is about 4 minutes too long
If I were ever the host to one of these I'd bang out the necessary information, including anything about me IF that's necessary, so fast my intro would be studied by students of advertising in 15-second time slots. Get. that. shit. out. of. the. way.
Franzen is a little arrogant and subtly envious.
Hiding behind words
This isn’t pretentious... but Franzen is obviously trying to impress DeLillo and he’s trying too hard. Notice the language. ( this is one of many examples and a fairly simple one but), Franzen keeps saying things like: ‘It may come later, it may arise later...’ leading up to a question. He’s purposely editing his sentences out loud, adjusting his vocabulary from simple to unnecessarily complex, probably because he’s nervous. DeLillo never brings this up but notice That it takes quite a while to understand where Franzen is going in his questioning and then notice that DeLillo responds mostly using language that a five year old could understand...
Franzen is not being pretentious lol. Contrived to a degree? Sure. But who wouldn’t be? You’re talking to a stupendous author in front of a crowd. It’s the inner-author in Franzen that desires to keep the conversation light and the audience halfway entertained. What would be pretentious is if Franzen asked some super nuanced questions. If you think these are questions that Franzen would ask in private, then you’re underestimating the intelligence of these two men. These are extremely open-ended questions with the intent of engaging Delillo and the crowd together, not just Delillo himself. Franzen is certainly not challenging him.
There's nothing more annoying than a CZcams video with NO VIDEO.
Franzen is such an awkward egg
That's why people sit alone in a room and write.
Suddenly a violent argument broke out over who is more pretentious.
I find those who use certain adjectives liberally when criticizing others apply to the denotation themselves.
#WREKT
Taylor Caron So you mean - "If you describe someone as ADJECTIVE then you are ADJECTIVE." I'm not sure that that is always true.
I think people that are pretentious use complex words when they could use simple words to express something. They just show off (bully others) because the derive self worth from the belief that they are intelligent/verbose. The sad truth is that they are just insecure.
DeLillo and Franzen are boring writers. They may be clever/educated but they're deeply boring.
ecaepevolhturt to bully others? While you could be right you also could be off the mark. Should you be ashamed of vocabulary (especially in this age)? I was under the impression pretension was a hallmark of writers either embraced or masked. I think it has far more to do with insecurity than "bullying." That's just a bad word choice, smacks of social fascism. Apply knowledge, craft, skill or wisdom in another trade, occupation, hobby etc... Would you refer to someone as a bully because they utilize nuance and complexity in there field to show themselves studied and approved and to separate themselves from the rest of the pack?
Could they be concise, could they use commonalities, could they not be so damn pretentious? Yes, absolutely, but that speaks to their insecurity as writers and so would bullying, allowing that is the case, be an out-working of that insecurity (fear). However if I've ever felt lesser than in an intellectual engagement it's forced me to face that and put in some work. I don't feel bullied, just like I don't feel bullied by a better basketball player.
CloverPickingHarp Convoluted writers attract convoluted readers.
People saying pretentious--that's all Franzen. I don't hear pretentious with Delillo. Franzen has that very affected intellectual lilt to his voice. Very annoying.
2 CIA tools
Looks like DeLillo doesn't want to be shown speaking on camera, curious. Here's a penetrating comment on DeLillo I found, :
"Falling man", [the pixels 911 twin towers] heralded like one of his "finest novels", is a tragic product of bamboozle and malice... unfortunately when the truth will be all out, this will take the name of Delillo down with it...
The adventurous parts of the book are all staged on the day of 9/11, and all these parts are just FANTASIES created by watching, probably over and over, the photos and the videos, and reading the witnesses reports.
Apparently never, during the whole process that apparently took years, this great genius of the American Novel had the uneasy feeling of being in presence of Fakery. Even without figuring out that the whole thing could be and was produced in a studio, in front of a machine, how not to see that these elements he was feeding his talents with lacked the variety, the unpredictability and the accidents of reality?
Oh, but he was going to make the unreal sound real. I think this whole book is an act of pride more than anything else, the pride of the writer who will prove he can turn anything, any lie, into truth...
shut up and take your meds
Do you, like, enjoy reading? If anything your pride is getting in the way of appreciating a work of *fiction*. In other words, and kindly (because it can only be wrong to waste precious time on such trivial nonsense), get over yourself; read a book you enjoy and find meaningful instead.
Well written. Delillo would be proud of this character you’ve created.
That was a good book. Seems like some people just have to throw poop at quality.
garbage in garbage out
+ppwalk05 Like this comment, I suppose?
well, you know what they say. one man's trash is another man's transparent rainboot footfetish. heinrich clearly adored the airborne toxic event. franzen is an interloper, to be sure. every medium of every sort has at least one. they spawn like ambystoma and array themselves onto your psychic zendstation smilde like the blackened puke-green screen of a gameboy. game over, man. eventually the effigy will replace the article. a franzen, this one or another one maybe, will write the epitaph
Good lord….not sure how anyone can listen to lisping lisperer Delillo talk out-loud, it’s like being in Hell….it’s probably doing damage to the psyche so deep that it’s probably unrepairable…
he probably became a writer because no one could stand to listen to his voice and would be hard to get a job dealing with the public face to face….it’s a horror show of all horror shows
Fan of both writers but this is one pretentious conversation. If I ever sounded like this my friends and wife would slap me back into reality.
+colinwriter Why is this pretentious? I just don't get it. So they are talking to each other and you don't find it suits your way of talking, your wife's way of talking enough so the only thing it can be is pretentious. Dude, calling people pretentious is probably the most pretentious thing ever.
dan dan
"Do you consider yourself...[pause]...a mystical writer?"
Like, I've never read DeLillo but come on.
mystical (adj.)
late 15c., "enigmatic, obscure, symbolic," from mystic + -al (1). Related: Mystically. Meaning "having spiritual significance" is from 1520s.
Those first three adjectives embody DeLillo's prose style/content. Don't assume the meaning of 'mystical.'
trying 2 hard
Eli F Delillo has a way of writing that can definitely feel mystical. A mixture of keen psychological and philosophical observation mixed w/ a humorous and suspicious takedown of modern society. It’s a wise and agile voice. I’d recommend checking out White Noise and The Names. Great Jones Street. Go from there.