Should you move to Vienna as a software engineer?
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- I was ask if Austria is a good country to move in as a software engineer. Let's try to answer this question from the perspective of a senior software engineer working in Vienna.
0:00 Intro
0:32 Companies
2:13 Salaries
4:02 Outro
----- ABOUT ME
Hello/Servus,
My name is Tomasz. I'm a father, a software engineer and a Vienna lover. I moved with the family to Vienna in 2020 and I was so blown away by the city that I bought a camera and started this channel to share some of its beauty with you. I was born and raised in Poland, I lived for 4 years in Wrocław and 8 in Kraków. I know and love many amazing cities, but I cannot imagine living anywhere other than Vienna. Please join me on my journey of living abroad. I will take you on a tour around the city and talk about different topics related to life in Vienna. If there is something you want to hear about, let me know in the comments below.
Best,
Tomasz Kusienicki
----- TAGS
#vienna #austria #wien #österreich #vlog #it #job #jobsearch #coding
----- AI description
In this video, we'll answer the question: should you move to Vienna as a software engineer?
Vienna is a great city to live in as a software engineer. Not only is it culturally rich and beautiful, but it also has a great job market and excellent opportunities for growth. In this video, we'll discuss all of the reasons why you should consider moving to Vienna as a software engineer.
After watching this video, you'll have all the information you need to make an informed decision about whether or not to move to Vienna as a software engineer. So sit back and let us help you make the decision that's best for you!
Great insightful video Tomasz! Really enjoyed watching this.
Thanks for the comment. I’m glad you like it. 😊
As a Software Developer who lives in Vienna for 12 years, I can say very honest statement. One more thing big companies in Austria tend to use old technologies on the other hand getting a Dev job in Vienna is easier than in Berlin.
Yeah, that was my impression so far. Thank you for confirming.
You have a lot of experience here, would you like to share anything else about the job market here or why you think it is the way it is?
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki I think it is quite the Austrian or European mentality issue. New things, new technologies look scary at the beginning because you need time to understand them. Why is it easy to get a dev job in Vienna, because of the lack of people.
@@fahrican4594 I think you're right. I have the impression that more people in Austria value the balance between work and leisure than people in some other European countries, where many people are willing to work hard for many years to achieve success. As a software engineer in Austria, you start earning a lot quite quickly, so there is not so much pressure to develop, start your own company and do other things to keep climbing. You can do it, but you have to really want it and be motivated ...at least that's what I think after 4 years here. 🤔
I think saying that the tax is 48% is very misleading. It's only a small fraction that falls into that range... But the first 12k are 0 tax, then around 25 tax for the next step, and so on... So the point is, having an increase from annual 30k to 40k feels huge but then from 60k to 70k not so much. That also adds to the fact that having a very high salary doesnt change your netto as much as others abroad would think.
Yes, you are right. I should clarify that. My bad.
I confirm that if you work for a financial services company in London, you will be making 2 to 5 times what you get in Vienna.
Just out of curiosity, what is a working culture in such companies in London?
ouch
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki It depends on whether you work for an investment bank or a small firm like a hedge fund or high-frequency trading. Big firms are extremely bureaucratic and very political-not a nice place to work. Smaller firms can be nicer, but their employees work harder-very long hours are the norm.
Overall, working in finance can be hard. It's difficult to survive here for more than 10-15 years. On the other hand, if you do, you have a chance to walk away as a millionaire.
@@ps-dn7ce thanks for the reply. I expected something like that. Both options are not great for me personally. 🤔 that said, I understand the appeal.
Great insights Tomasz! As you are in the tech area, do you have any insights on the UX/UI market in Vienna?
Thanks! Sadly UX desingers I work with are located outside of Austria, so I do not know much about that. I would suggest to check out Glassdoor, they have some data about salaries as well as some job offers:
- www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/vienna-user-experience-designer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM1118_KO7,31.htm
- www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/vienna-senior-ux-designer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IC3174503_KO7,25.htm
Good luck!
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki understood! Will check out glassdoor to get some more info, thanks!
What are your thoughts on Warsaw vs. Vienna? If you had the same salary, would you choose Poland? I am seeing rents are higher in Warsaw but apartments are at least furnished. Do you rent a furnished one in Vienna? Good luck!
Hi,
I am not the biggest fan of Warsaw, so I would not move there for sure, 😅but I guess this is not the point. I really like Kraków and Wrocław, but I would not move back there, as I have not left the country to earn more. That was a nice addition for me, not the main goal. I have moved to Vienna with my familly, because my wife has much better career opportunities here than in Poland. Initially we did not know if we are going to stay, but since we have discovered how great is living in Vienna and it would be very, very hard for me to give up on that.
My apartment was unfurnished, most is not or you have to buy furniture from the previous person.
Thank you!
I've had dual citizenship all my life but have never been to Austria (I'm American). It's a coincidence I found this video because I studied CS and never found a job. I'm thinking of moving to Vienna, possibly to go to back to school.
There are quite a few Americans here and the embassy’s huge. It seems like a popular destination. 😊
amazing video and info thank you. recently I moved to vienna to work as a devops eng and asking for district to live am looking for sth green I do not matter if its close or not to the center green place
I have a video about my fav. one :) czcams.com/video/CF7RkzGD9kE/video.html
But if you are not convinced this is a good overview: viennawurstelstand.com/article/the-vienna-expat-survival-guide-13-ultimate-tips-for-internationals-moving-to-or-living-in-vienna/
Hey man, hope you are doing well, i was looking to move to vienna for my masters on computer science, could you tell me about the job sector and expected salary of a junior front end developer and would be a good decision to move to vienna, i will be studying at uni of veinna for my masters.
Hi, I am doing great, thanks man! Usually Glassdoor has pretty good date on salaries in our industry, so I would recomend to use their service. You can look for different roles like "front end developer", "Junior Software Developer" and so on and then filter by years of experience. Example: www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/austria-front-end-developer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,7_IN18_KO8,27.htm
Good luck!
Hi Tomasz! We're moving soon to Vienna, I'm also a software engineer and we love the city, but I've also understood it's quite challenging to find a job here, and, the most important, I have concern about future professional development, so potentially we will move in some years. What's your opinion? Also, as a tech guy it's quite not motivating to see the old technologies used etc, but on the other hand Vienna offers great life balance for the families with kids, right?
Hi,
I think any software engineer can find a job here, the challenge is to find an interesting and high paying one. I think any software engineer can find a job here and the challenge is to find an interesting and high paying one.
That said, there are some good companies and also, it is always possible to work remotly for one of those international startups if you don't mind long hours.
I consider myself very lucky. I still have a lot opportunities to grow in my current company, I like the tech we use and I have a very good work-life balance.
I appreciate it more and more every year here. This city can change your perspective on what is important in life. I really appreciate that.
Good luck
❤
@@TomaszJakubKusienickiwow thank you! Looking forward!
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki you can say that again
Hi Tomasz, thanks for the informative video (especially relevant for me right now). I am an expat, about to finish my PhD (in Math) in a few months from a Uni in Vienna. Been looking around to prepare to switch to software engineering (SE) career; leaning towards things like data science or scientific computing (or game development!).
I guess my question is, how long was the waiting time (the time spent looking, applying, and finally receiving job offer) for you until you get your SE job in Vienna? Also what is your SE sector if I may know (banking, medicine, automotive, etc)? Just sort of adding some more "data points" to learn from :)
Hi, I am glad you like the video. ☺️ I have covered my whole SE journey in another one, you might want to check it out: czcams.com/video/J9d3qlE2e2c/video.html
PS I would suggest you not to focus on a specific industry unless you are really passionate about something very specific that you cannot do anywhere else. Finding a good place to work is hard enough, especially at the beginning, even without any preferences.
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki Thanks! I agree on being flexible for beginner.
Hi! I have the possibility to make a big expensive course with possibility to get directly a job afterwards in that area. The only thing is I have to choose between network engineer, software engineer or application engineer. I wanted to do one as data analyst, programming or AI engineer, but these are booked till the next year. Can people who know these areas better help me to find the "right" one. Living close to Vienna and want to work afterwards here. I dont know which one I should choose from the frost 3 mentioned ones.
Hi, it is really hard to say without more information. What is your intrested? What kind of coding do you like to do?
hey...... how is it if i wanna study masters in austria in data analytics or data science hows the job market for freshers in it......please guide me for it or should i go for my college in germany...or how about study in austria and finding job in germany
Hi,
it's actually quite simple, just use LinkedIn, Glassdoor or another major site like that and check what job openings there are for jobs you would like to have in the cities/countries you're considering moving to. And I am pretty sure you can study in Austria and then work in Germany as well. 😊
Good luck!
Which is better to live n work? Stockholm/Helsinki or Vienna/Berlin?
That is an excellent question. I definitly know more about Vienna and Berlin than about Stockholm and Helsinki, but I will try to answer the best I can.
All those 4 cities are in countries with quite high taxes and social contribiutions that pay for a lot of social benefits like universal healthcare, good education system and so on. Rates are a little bit different between those countries, but the overall idea is the same.
Helsinki is the smallest from those 4 cities, so job opportunities might be limited depending on your profession. It is also far from the rest of the Europe, so it is not a perfect city for people who likes to travel a lot. On the other hand I have read that it is one of the greenest capitols on the continent, and overall it ranks very high on the livablity rankings. If you want to live there make sure that you can secure a high salary as the city is very expensive. I would also consider the fact that the average length of day is short there and it gets really cold in the winter (also because of the wind).
I do not know much about Stockholm. For sure it is also colder than Berlin and Vienna, and gets less light, but I do not know much more about it.
Berlin is likely the best from those 4 if you want to focuse on your career. It is in Germany - the 4th largest economy in the world - so you can expect the most job opportunites there. It has also a strong startup scene, so this is another benefit, if you work in tech. People also telling me that it is great for parties, but you have to like this vibe. The city is quite rough, dirt (a lot garabe, broken glass, piles of electric scooters and so on), full of graffity and unusual people. If you are into that you will be very happy there, but it is not for me for sure.
Vienna on the other hand is much more "classy" if you will. Some people would say it is boring, but for me it is perfect palce for faimilies. Very green, quite cleen and very beutiful. Job oppotinies are rather avrage, but work-life balance is highly valued. I personally absolutly love living here and I would not move to any other city, even that leaving here is quite costly compare to Berlin. Still, I have to mention that some people do not feel as welcomed here as I do, but it is hard for me to know more about this as I am pretty basic.
So to sumarize. I think if you like nordic vibes you will be happy both in Stockholm and Helsinki as long as you are able to secure a good job. If you are looking for international city with an edge or you like to hustle check out Berlin. If you want a quite faimily like in the center of Europe you should go to Vienna.
Hello, i am a student, final year of a master degree in computer engineering artificial intelligence and robotics in italy. i am looking for an internship. The fields I am interested in are computer vision, natural language processing and robot programming (ros).
Would you have any recommendations of companies or how to go about finding something in Vienna anyway?
Thank you very much
Hi, that is very specific, I do not know this market that well. 🤔What I can say is that IMHO first jobs and internships do not have to be strictly related to what interests you the most. After you gain some experience, it will be easier for you to get a job you really want. Good luck!
is next js web dev as front end is in demand in vienna ? and is true without german i hae no chance to find a job ?
It’s not true, I work in english and know other people like me, so as a software developer you can definitely find jobs that doesn’t require german. That said, you would have more options to choose from with the language.
If you are looking for something specific I would suggest you to search at LinkedIn or Glassdoor.
Sadly the market is pretty bad at the moment in most places, but maybe you will be able to find something fitting.
nice video Tomasz
48% tax is surprising for me
im interested in some offering from quite famous company as a flutter developer
is it worth it to relocate? i mean, im from SEA, never imagined how i will live in Europe
Thanks ☺️
Yeah taxes are high, overall quite a few things are expensive in Vienna. You can watch this video to learn more:
czcams.com/video/8NS0lVFqaxQ/video.html
I am glad I have moved here, but I think everyone has to decide for themselves as no place is perfect.
48% is just the top fraction of your income
I quickly looked it up, without any tax returns (which you will AT LEAST get a few hundred of almost guaranteed, up to thousands depending on your work/family etc. situation)
Total it would for a 60000€ salary 19400€ tax(Which is includes income tax, mandatory public pension payments,health insurance and a few smaller things) so 32% of your 60000 salary leaving you with 40600 net
for 85000€ it's 31000€ which is 36,5% and 54000€ net
@@Goriaas if someone is interested in the exact number here is the online calculator: bruttonetto.arbeiterkammer.at/
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki That's literally what I used brah
@@Goriaas I’ve not said you are wrong.😅
Hi Tomasz, I have been offered a job in Vienna, which including bonus and loading adds up to 90k euro per year, do you think this is enough salary for a basic life plus some occasional travel, we are a family of 4 ( two little girls)
Hi, 90k is definitely a good salary, so I would say it is enough, however it is very subjective. 90k gross would give you about 60k nett (4.1k monthly + 2x 5.1k) assuming you will apply for Familienbonus for your kids. You can calculate it here: bruttonetto.arbeiterkammer.at/
I would suggest to make sure you are able to secure spots in public schools/kindergartens for your kids as private ones are expensive. Maybe your future employer can help with that.
For other costs check out my other video: czcams.com/video/8NS0lVFqaxQ/video.htmlsi=vgji0aL7jlcec1ZK
Good luck 🍀
@eamonsalimi5660 , could you please say what job it is and how many years of experience you have? My husband is a software eng with 8 years of eco and I wonder if he can find same salary.
@@user-df1pl5wo1y Hi, I can say that earning over 90k gross as a senior software engineer in Vienna is definitely possible, but not very common. Most companies pay between 60 and 85k for this position, so your husband would need to find one of the well-paying local companies, start working remotely in a good abroad company or get a very specialized position, because sometimes those positions with specific requirements are better paid.
You can start by checking glassdoor to compare salaries between companies in different markets, although please have in mind that data for Austria is often incomplete.
Good luck!
90k is more than enough to have a good life in Vienna. I'm a born and raised Viennese and am a senior software engineer for more than 15 years now but "only" earn like 56k per year and I'm more than fine with it. I could definitely earn more but with roughly 400 € rent, maybe additional 300 € per month for private insurances and like 600 € for food and stuff I don't need more money. I therefore value freedom and work/life-balance way more than earning big money. Sure, as expad you should probably calculate with a rent near 1000-1200 € per month, especially considering when you bring your family with you, as you don't have access to funded accommodation yet. With two little girls you should make sure to have a place for these two girls first, unless your wife is taking care of the kids, as otherwise the waiting time to find a supervised place in a kindergarden can take up quite some time. Friends of mine had to wait for 2 years to find a place. Usually schools expect kids to be able to communicate in German though and thus some preparatory classes might be necessary for them to go through, depending on their age and skills.
As some guys asked before, you can find plenty of companies that look for new employees here and depending on your language skills and experience you might find a new workplace if you really want to and don't set your income as your number one priority. While I can only speak for the company I'm currently working for and some other I have a bit of an insight in, but among German speaking peers usually the communication is done in German but as soon as some non-native German speaker joins the conversation we usually switch to English. Even our Slack communication and Gitlab issues is usually done in English.
There are literally dozens of places where one can find job offers. While I wouldn't recommend the "Arbeitsmarktservice" (AMS; job intermediation service) as your first choice, this is the place where most companies issue their vacant positions to in order to get sent candidates for those positions. The problem there is usually that those service employees don't understand the intricacies of certain job positions and thus often negotiate the wrong candidates to certain positions or force them to do certain stupid and completely mind-boggling courses just so these people don't appear on a "job less list". Nowadays many tech-savvy companies advocate vacant positions in meet-ups that target specific technologies they need workforce for, i.e. MongoDB, Apache Camel or ReactJS groups or the like. If you know such technologies and go there you often can get in contact with leading people in such companies and thus reduce the recruitment process even faster. There are also some head-hunting companies out there that basically iterate through Github and when the appropriate languages and frameworks are in use contact these people directly. I usually get two to three invitations per month this way. While newspapers still have the job offers section, I don't really know many software-engineers who found jobs this way. If so you usually can be sure that they just pay minimum wage. Before looking for a software-engineering position via AMS or newspapers I'd recommend to go to the technical university as here certain billboards often contain some offers of small to mid-sized companies to work on various projects and/or technologies
just fyi taxes for 90k per year is about 36.45%
Yeah I think I should have explained the tax system better, even though it could scare people away. 😅
2:27 correction: its not what people “get”, its what people “earn”. Its sad to see left europe pushed people into being apathic, stuck in narrow ranges of salaries, where you cannot change your life arround because of high taxes, and on the other hand promoting low taxes on wealth, inheritance etc.
What do you mean by that? Are you talking about software engineers specifically or in general?
Tomas i am looking junior role Ui/Ux is it possible to find any job in vienna? Hybrid or something?
Hi Adam, sadly it is hard time for people looking for a job at the moment, especially juniors. In my company we do not have any openings, but keep looking, the slowdown cannot last forever. 🤞In Vienna LinkedIn is a good place to start the search.
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki thank you very much 😊
Hey man i am working towards being a software engineer. Any chance we could get in touch as i go on this journey. I’d like a friend , mentor and coach. Just being honest
Hi man! That's a good goal. :) I really think this is an amazing profession.
To be honest I am not able to mentor people personally, best I can do is to try to find time to make videos from time to time as even that is quite time consuming.
That said, I do not want to leave you nothing, so I can tell this. There is planty of easily available high quality content that you can use to learn. I personally used pluralsight a lot at some point, but there is also coursera, udemy and many more. You can also find a lot of free lessons here on youtube. I am not sure what is your level, if you are into some more advance stuff like system design here are some recomendations:
- www.youtube.com/@jackson-gabbard/playlists
- www.youtube.com/@SystemDesignInterview
but there is also plenty of stuff "for beginners".
Good luck! :)
Hi,
How about Software project management? How much is the scope of Project management in Austria?
Hi, I don’t know for sure, however my guess would be that it is very similar. There are many companies, most is quite old fashion, however you can find some modern ones as well.
This is mostly staffed by internal project managers from the companies and even more so, you would need to speak German.
@@StarryNightSky587 thank you for the information.
Is it true, that if you work as "selbständig" that you earn much more per year?
Yes and no. It opens more opportunities for you, including working for well paying American startups, however this for of employment by itself doesn’t seem to be much better than the regular full time job.
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki Danke :)
I am a bit struggling to find a job here in Vienna. I am a front-end developer with 5 years of experience in Angular, but I speak German very poorly. Nobody is interested if you speak weak German and good English.
Maybe it makes sense for Austrians, but it makes me sad ;D
Sorry to hear that. I can see that the market wasn’t great recently and I think web might be impacted the most as many companies focus on mobile over web. Maybe it is time to switch to react? 🤔
I've been working for an Austrian company and found the experience awful. Outdated tech, terrible work ethic. At 2 PM on Friday it's been already quite hard to get ahold of people.
Tbh I have never worked for a typical Austrian company. I prefer working in more modern and internationally focused companies. That said even we are under a collective agreement and work only 38,5h a week and I appreciate shorter Fridays. 😄
you have to speak german to work as software engineer in vienna?
I am a living proof that it is not not necessary. 😅Ihat said, it is a requirement in some companies.
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki as self thought living in Vorarlberg where is the best place to find startups for junior positions?
@@nuurgedi Probably Berlin 😅 Austria does not have that many startups I am afraid
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki it really hard to even find interview ..
It's Wien.
Hard to argue with that. 😅
thats like 3k a month net
Well it depends, you can calculate it yourself here: bruttonetto.arbeiterkammer.at/
Salaries are higher than that. A "senior" developer should definitely earn +80k in Vienna. If not, you didn't negotiate well.
Are you sure? I’m afraid the average is lower. What well paying companies do you know in Vienna?
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki i make more although I wouldn't consider myself senior and i am not in a leadership position. -> software development in the context of the financial services industry.
@@wuestenkamel I also make more, I would say much more, but I also see that many companies in Austria doesn’t pay much so the statistics I have found seem pretty accurate to me. 🤔
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki where do you work
@@vladbrincoveanu www.linkedin.com/in/tomasz-jakub-k-2a406253/
Gee-whiz, you may need to speak german when working in a german-speaking country, how can that be?
Generally probably true, however there are exceptions like Berlin 😅 or working in specialized industries where it is hard to attract talents. Software engineering is especially good for that as it is very easy to work internationally so you can always work remotely if needed.
48% taxes o_o
Yeah, you pay a little bit less if you have kids and there are some things you can deduct, but the taxes are high here, there is no way around it. Similarly owning a car here is also very expensive partly because of the taxes. That said, infrastructure is good and public services work well so we have that. 😅
Hey dont steal my job!
Just kidding
I am afraid in software engineering nobody even has to move to still some jobs. 😅
zurich or munich are way better. Austria is nightmare for bigtech because of the taxes 😒
Yeah I would love to know for sure why some many companies are skipping Austria while looking for new locations. I’m sure taxes and regulations are a factor here, however I am not sure if this is the whole story.
lol, yeah go find a living space in zürich or münchen - and then tell us what you got left of your flashy salary and how long your commute is
Die Steuern in Österreich sind 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Ja, sie ist hoch…
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki Vor allem zahlen wir durch die Kalte Progression jetzt noch mehr Steuern. Ich bin selbst Österreicher und würde jedem Menschen, der etwas verdienen will, raten, dass er nicht nach Österreich oder Deutschland zieht. Der Mittelstand wird abgezockt.
@@TomaszJakubKusienicki Und warum löscht du meinen zweiten Kommentar?
@@ridgero Sorry, aber ich habe nichts gelöscht. Vielleicht funktioniert CZcams nicht gut. 🤔
I wanted to ask if you know anything about the job market in Vienna or Austria as a whole in the field of AI, as Iḿ currently in Uni I dont know much about it
Sorry not really. There is too much noise about AI atm and it is hard to say which companies are serious about this and which just ride on the hype.
Personally I think the AI is overhyped.