Part 2 of How Much Does It Cost to Get on HF with Jim W6LG, there were some Great Comments to Part 1
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- čas přidán 14. 04. 2024
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I feel, that being licensed for 62
years, and now 80 years old,
helping new amateurs, like I was
hlped back then can be one's
best achievement in the hobby. 😊
Absolutely. We all got help starting out. Nobody needs fancy new stuff anyway.
@@captlarry-3525 Thanks 😊
My advice. Get the best that you can afford and get on the air!!
I would say buy an ICOM 7300 and use an end fed multi band antenna. This with a power supply will get you going. Jim is the best ham radio Elmer on CZcams!! Robert K5TPC
With the benefit of hindsight, I would probably work backwards from my original thinking. I would start with the antenna, and probably get the DX Commander Rapide. (I have a space and visibility constraint). Next is the coax. I ran 150 feet of inexpensive coax 3 different times before remembering what Jim has always said---GET THE BEST YOU CAN AFFORD. I am happy with Messi and Paoloni Ultraflex 7, but go for the Ultraflex 10 if you can. Don't carry your signal to the antenna in a leaking bucket. Lastly, if you can swing it, an Icom 7300. This setup should make you a realistic contender for DX and pileups. (Stop laughing Jim)
This is the perfect setup! I too am running the Rapide and the 7300 connected with 100' of M&P Ultraflex 7. This arrangement is not super expensive but will give you everything you need.
My #1 advice is to first get an elmer or three. Unfortunately, Jim set that rule that the advice is to someone that is all alone in his area, but I would still suggest connecting with someone who will mentor and guide you through. Most of us older hams have tried lots of rigs, modes, antennas, and ways of operating. Tap into us - many are happy to help get you on the air and help navigate the options. The internet shortens a lot of distance and many regional or national clubs are an email away. Most of ham radio is about communicating with someone, so my #1 suggestion is that. Of course, reviewing the whole back log of Jim’s videos here on this channel is great info from one of the best elmers in the hobby, too.
I was lucky to have met my Dentist, who I found out was a ham, and he wanting to get an old Ham back on the air, gifted me an old Icom IC-736, and provided local sources for repairs...long story short I was able to get both the Icom and old Kenwood TS-940SAT repaired locally at a reasonable cost...and with a DIY dipole up on PVC pipe at around 7ft, I have been back on the air working
some DX...so, you never know who you will meet....older hams can help not only the younger ones to get started but the older ones to get back on the air
Joe
W6AXH
When I got my General a year ago, I got an Icom 737 from marketplace for $350, a used power supply from ebay, and made a 9:1 unun and 71 feet of dog invisible fence wire. All said and done I was on the air for under $500 and very pleased.
I am an older ham (will be 80 in june). I have more transceivers than I need, and would be glad help a new ham, but the trend these days is call us names (sad ham comes to mind) if we have been around a while. Im not going to help some guy that cant stand me just because i didnt die a little sooner. So I guess what i am saying is be nice to older hams and maybe we could help. In fact I have done that in the past. I have loaned rigs and in some cases just given HF rigs to people. (I still kinda miss that century 21). Not sure if I should post this.....I know its kinda negative....but what the hell...here it comes.
I got called a Sad Ham.
Do I care? No. I do what I like.
I built my h/f s.s.b/c.w. 5 Watt radio, repaired a 1944 Wireless 19 Set, repaired my Racal RA17L, run other stuff, I don't care what they think.
G4GHB.
The one item I would add to your list Jim, is an external speaker. As a significant number of transceivers have speakers not facing the operator, the full frequency range (as transmitted) of the human voice is not heard. Even a piece of card at 45 degrees helps to direct the sound to the operator. This last link in the reception chain is often overlooked.
73 Jeremy
Recently licensed general op here-a quality used 891 (~$500) is incredible value, if you don’t mind learning the menu/controls. Once you have it mastered, it’s difficult to find an alternative. There is little on the market that satisfies my desire for a portable 100w hf rig.
I'm a big fan of the 891 as well. I used mine as a base station for a while, now it's relegated to portable use. As you said once you learn the menus it isn't too difficult to deal with, however my IC-7300 is a dream to operate.
My wife and I live and cruise fulltime on our 40ft sailboat. Boats are expensive. We compromised by purchasing an older boat and made it happen. The rule of thumb in cruising is "go small and go now." Since we live in a mobile lifestyle, the decision was already made for me, with respect to my Ham gear, as a full-featured desktop station won't fit on the boat. My first rig (and current rig) is a Yaesu FT-891 and a 20 meter hamstick. I have the FC-50 tuner and a permanent trunk mount for the antenna, attached to my solar panel arch. To date, I have contacts with every continent and 59s galore. Of course, saltwater provides a most excellent counterpoise but it is possible to get on the air with a portable unit as your primary station and a full-featured unit when money runs uphill. Follow the nautical bug axiom - "Go small and go now" - just don't go weaker than 100 watts, like my FT-891. It's a great unit. I purchased all of my gear for less than $1000.
Agreed on the FT-891, it's a great portable rig. I use it for SOTA/POTA and have worked some faraway places, especial when close to the beach.
Thanks Jim, Yet Another Great Vidclip .... It does Not have to Cost the Earth ..... I am already 73 and have just had my Ham License for less than a year, although being on 27Mhz CB Band for absolute ages .... I have some Very Basic Gear .... I have my 'Granny Radio' .... :-) :-) :-) ... an Old ICOM IC-735 feeding into an End-Fed Long-Wire.... It is quite remarkable just what QSO's I have had when having ONLY about 60W Effective Peak .... From New Zealand I have been into Italy, France, Spain, Croatia, Chile, USA .... And 3 days ago I got into Florida, 59 Report, 'KEWEE' .... and Stan could Not Believe what I had managed to do That !!!!! So, to ALL out there, Get some GOOD Basic Equipment, Spend a LOT of Time TUNING Your Antenna to be As Good As is Possible and you will be Super Surprised just what you can do ..... Best to ALL, It can be Done Cheaply .... :-) :-) :-) ENJOY and Have Fun, it is well worth it ..... :-) :-) :-)
I have a G90, but cant really comment on it because I have only used it on CW. I never even took the mic out of the box. When I first got on the air it was easier to build a station because we all started on CW. How times change. Anyway, It is a decent CW rig if thats what someone wants to start with, most likely ok on SSB.
I started with a Yaesu FT-450, efficient vertical and a POS Ameritron 800. Threw some new tubes in the amp and I was off to the races. When it came to breaking pile ups, I was louder than 80% of other stations; got smoked by the legal limit, yagi guys. What I didn't have was operating experience. I had a loud mouth. If a new ham can't afford a 100 watt radio, they can still operate, gain experience as to equipment and most of all, learn how to really operate. Then as they can afford to upgrade, they not only know what works, but how to make the best of it. At near peak sunspots cycle, it's much easier to make contacts. When we get to the solar minimum, it gets a lot harder. If money is an issue, starting out and learning when conditions are good with a lesser radio and then upgrading as time goes is not a bad thing.
My recommendation:
Transceiver: Yaesu FT891 Best bang for the buck 100W HF/50Mhz radio. Solid, has voice keyer, lots of awesome features. Can be used at home or portable. Amazing rig at an unbeatable price!
Antennas for portable :
linked dipole + 10m telescopic fibre glass pole (inverted V config) (you can build it or buy it from sotabeams)
Telescopic vertical antenna 5m long (20m band and up) with a coil for 40m. (MFJ had this)
Antennas for permanent installation:
Homebrew fan dipole (less cost, more horizontal space required and needs to be high enough)
DX commander classic (expensive but less horizontal space required)
73 de F4JAW
I hope your feeling well Jim!🙏🤠👍🇺🇸
I remember my father had.a Helicrafter reciever, can't remembe the Transmitter, he used a Barker and Williamson linear, it was two piece and used 813 vacuum tubes, his power supply was homebrew, the rectification used mercury vapor rectifiers which had a cobalt blue glow to it, awesome stuff!
Thank you for mentioning my advice!
Jerry KB2GCG
Thanks Jim W6LG! My recommendation? Go atop the nearest hill and blow smoke…unless the wind is wrong! ❤
Good wire antenna, like a loop / dipole, a second-hand antenna tuner (with power/swr meter built -in) and a BASIC radio (with marked knobs) that is easy to work and navigate by someone who is new to the hobby, rigs like IC-718 , IC-725 and many more in the range of $300-$400 could be a good candidate.
Many of my students gone on H.F forking less than $800 all up with the vision of upgrading in the future, and make no mistake they are having fun and lots of contacts.
to test/gain interest ... AirSpy mini (!) + HF SpyVerter R2 combo with SDR# or gxrq or gnu radio :-) ... but KEY thing is antenna, at least long wire over the garden ...
I have been a ham for more than 40 years. My recommendation is impossible now adays. I started by building my own radio from a kit. Tubes, resistors, capacitors and a couple transistors. I built it in High School electronics class (we all made the same kit). I learned a bunch about electronics and it was fun. There are no more kits that I am aware of. Radios today are FAR too complex to build at home for the average guy. They are extraordinary, however. I guess my second recommendation would be for new folks to build as much of their station as they can. Its cheaper, more fun and a worthwhile learning opportunity. Replace things with better ones as you go along.
Nice review Jim! Thanks for the thought provoking discussion. Wishing peace and tranquility, Joel, Kc2grn.
For myself I wasn’t sure if I would have the time and interest. I purchased a G90 two-three years ago. I’m glad I did, as I found I do enjoy the hobby. However I’m only on the air a few hours a month at best. But knowing that I do enjoy the hobby. I’ll be purchasing 100w at some point. Maybe I’ll find more time if I do purchase a 100W. Thanks Jim, your videos are educational.All the best.
Bob
KD2WBZ
I picked up a IC-7300, a Yaesu inexpensive VHF/UHF radio, battery, solar panel, solar controller all in a go box used for less than a 7300 new. I really like the 7300. I have a DX Commander Expedition ($400) and a ladder line UHF/VHF antenna. For a feedline I use 2 pieces of 35 feet of RG-8x From the car to setup of the whole rig is running in less than 20 min. Breakdown is about 15 min. My total out of pocket is less than $1700. Although I have a RigExpert, the 7300 has a built in SWR meter that is quite good. Jim, I would love you to discuss the differences between the 7300 and a high dollar Flex or Elecraft rig.
Good info !
A decent multimeter, third party tested, to check voltages, cables, dc grounds etc. Can be purchased new for like 50 dollars.
great video. i love the G90. I do not have one ,but hear a lot of them on the air. what I can say is I can notice the drop in signal from QRP to 100 watts on my receiving end. some times when I have a high noise floor it makes a bigger difference or during a pile up. for a new ham into HF I say start with a 100 watts. that can be a G90 with a amp, we are at solar max now. GRP is getting out. made lots of contacts with QRP stations. but what about solar min ? when the bands not so good. that 100 watts can make all the difference. talking for a new ham to hf. will get many more contacts with a 100 watts. get some experience then try QRP. want them to stay interested. just my take on that . 73's
Cheap setup for HF, there are so many variables. I think it would be an IC-7300, power supply, buy or build a 9:1 unun, approximately 100+ feet of antenna wire, good coax cable, and a nano vna model H, and clip-on toroids to fit coax.
I would recommend shooting for a simple dipole for 20 or 40 meters. Cut for the phone section of the particular band! To me this gives the best chance for getting started and making contacts. Using the 100 watt rig you guys recommend.
The way I look at this is.....tell me a hobby that does not cost big money? You get what you pay for in this hobby...73's NX8T JIM
Jim, I’ve never used more than 100 watts, using wire antennas for the most part, I do have a MA5B mini Yafo now. I bought used rigs under $900, and have 225 ex entities confirmed. Using CW, SSB, and digital. Ham for 20 years. Probably under $2500 over course of 20 years. I think it is very possible to start out at $1200 and get on to get DXCC fairly easily, especially now with FT8. My goal was to get DXCC, and I more than doubled that, with some very rare entities through perseverance! I don’t have much money, but I’ve had fun! de K1LOG in Maine.
Thanks Jim
Thanks for doing this Jim - superb info. I recommend that a new ham build their station in stages. I bought a 2nd hand IC718 and operated with a battery and a homebrew EFHW for 3+ months. I tuned the EFHW with a NanoVNA I got online on sale for $80 (get one of those. Not as good as an analyzer, but it works). I worked a lot of DX in that three month period with just that 12 amp LiFPO battery and a wire. Over the next 2 years, I built up my station's quality. I saved up for each stage of improvement and bought everything when I had money in the bank. Now I own a 35 amp linear Power supply, RigExpert AA55 Zoom, a DX Commander, and an FTDX-101D. My next step is to get an amp - I am saving up with a target for purchase next fall. The cost is daunting if you do it all in one shot, but go slow and make incremental improvements when you can afford it. But bottom line, just get on the air with something. 73 de Jim VE3UZX
One of the great things with the hobby is that you can trade money for time or knowledge. If you don't want to spend a bunch of money, learning how to do something (CW for cheaper radios, electronics for homebrew) can go a long way to save a few bucks.
My first HF rig was a G90. bought it 2-3 months ago. I LOVE it. I have done pota with it, and do mostly FT8 with it. I have gone over 6000 miles on 20 watts. when I upgrade ( already ordered it) I am getting a hermes lite 2 $350
100 watt 60dbm amp $400
ATU-100 kit $70
I now have a END GAME level radio, a decent amp I can use with either radio, and the G90 for a back up/ pota rig.
we as good hams are all supposed to be using the lowest power possible to get the job done. right? right? 20 watts will do a LOT.
I worked out that my entire HF and VHF station cost £1200 which is about $1600. That included buying a basic HF transceiver brand new about 7 years ago. Prices have gone up though. We often buy radios from people we know, so we know the history of them. Buying on Ebay is a really bad idea in my experience.
Do your research. There's lots of information on the web regarding equipment at various levels. You don't want to spend your money and realize you have purchased the wrong equipment. Some CZcams Videographers may even have a reference station that will allow you to make informed choices. Antenna, coax and transceiver. You need to get the best of each that you can afford. You will also need a slush fund for such things as lightning arrestor, coax jumpers and all the little things that one needs.
enjoying your videos on how much does it cost to get started. hopefully will be taking my technician exam in the next couple of weeks. been looking at equipment and it can be confusing for a newbie. I don't want to sell a kidney for great equipment, but I'd rather buy a quality product when the funds are available. i think you may be spot on on your answers.
hope your health is doing better these days. got you in our prayers here!
Jim, just wanted to say Thank You for what you do. I know it's not easy with what you have going on. It's great to have a channel with solid information and opinions. I learned Ham Radio from books, really didn't have an Elmer. Thank God there was no You Tube around then. The You Tube "Experts" may have convinced me to get a Chameleon "Tactical" antenna and added to the global warming (LOL) with the heat produced in the magic 5 to1 transformer.
I agree with maybe not going the QRP route at first. My first HF rig was DL2MAN and PE1NNZ's (tr)uSDX! It is a glorious little rig, but... even though I made 100 QSOs as a POTA hunter, it was very tedious, and at about 5 watts, I found myself on the victim-end of a pileup mosh pit on many occasions! Again, a great rig, but most humans do not have my level of ADHD, so I would try something like a used FT-100D and start at 20 watts or so, then dial up to 100 if you need to hop up out of the noise floor. Also, don't forget to shop at a hamfest! I have bought two great rigs at less than 50% of what I would have paid for used rigs anywhere else!
I understand your point about buying new equipment only. I really think that you can get a great used radio. I got all my radios on qrz forums, and never had any problems.
Personally I would not start with g90 but rather with 991a or ftdx10 or similar 100watt transceiver.
The fact that 100W is 12dB less than 1500W is not a good reason to rush out and buy an amplifier. Everybody knows that plenty of contacts can be made running 100W. Similarly, plenty of contacts can be made running 20W, which is "only" 7dB less than 100W. If you can afford a 100W transceiver, that's what I recommend. But if your budget does not allow that, then for heaven's sake buy the Xiegu G90 and get on the air! You may struggle a bit on 80 and 40, but you'll have no trouble making plenty of contacts on the higher bands, especially at this point in the solar cycle. If you are Technician, you are restricted to 10 Meters anyway, and you can work the world with 20W on 10 Meters. Then, when you've saved up enough money, trade in the G90 for a 100W radio.
-- de AI4BJ
Hi Jim my recommend station would be a icom 7300 because if you have good audio you will be heard and if you want to be a rock star get a hex beam you don't need height or a rotator.
regards ZL3XZ
Good evening, Jim I have watched both of your videos and you did a very good job comparing prices of HF equipment. If you can afford a brand new radio that would be an excellent thing because of a warranty. I have a Kenwood TS 890 and I love it but also I have an Icom 7300 also and that is really a fun radio, and also a radio that you can get use to very quickly. And there’s nothing wrong with running a dipole antenna. I have to all over the world with mine. That is my two cents worth.
Steve
Join a club and let people know that you are looking to set up a first station. Kit (howver old) will come out of the woodwork on loan and will give you the opportunity to decide what you are going to spend your money/budget on.
The benefit of buying from a club member is that they dare not sell you a dud.
Something new hams should be told is that when you choose a rig, you are getting into that brand's ecosystem. While peripherals can be interchanged (eg microphone tuner etc), the accessories (cables, interfaces etc) quite often are not interchangeable. Once you make a decision it can be pricey to switch. As new amateurs are concerned, I feel this should be emphasized more than it is. Open to comments and criticism.
Better off to go new and not buy someone’s else’s issues.
If you buy used…buy from a reputable dealer or someone who can demo the gear. The guy I bought my Icom 706mkii from wouldn’t let me leave until he gave me a tutorial and showed how the radio worked properly. I respected that.
The G90 is a good little POTA RIG for QRP. Beyond that it’s a well engineered toy.
However the antenna is the whole deal. So put much of your budget there.
We all sell our old equipment some day. It works well, and the person who will buy it will enjoy it - there is no reason to only buy new IMHO. But if you want to avoid all the risks - definitely buy new.
First decide what you want to do with HF. If you want to rack up points for WAS, etc., and think you'll be frustrated by not recording a bunch of QSOs every time you switch on your rig, by all means get a decent 100w radio and follow Jim's path ( or variants described by others). I was licensed 10 yrs ago straight to General and made Extra about a year later. Although I picked up a good TS940SAT for a song, I bought a KX3 with tuner, KX3 Helper antenna and a Jackite 30ft mast. The KX3 was subsidized by my corporate retirement gift. I was on a small lot in an HOA, and almost all my use was the KX-3, which I set up temporarily in the back yard or took with me on trips. My first HF contact was with the KX-3 and a random wire dangle out a second floor of the house. It was the Indy500 special event station that year. The contact depended on their exceptional antenna setup and my patience to be heard. That's been the way with the KX-3. I haven't logged a lot of contacts, but appreciate them when I can work them. I carried it to my parents home for a month while helping out with my dad and built an inverted V to use there. A move from WA to GA - and work and family and knowing I didn't want to invest a lot in an antenna system in a "temporary" home - limited my HF operation for 6 years. I had an end-fed sloper from the house up to a tree, but had limited use in the Georgia stint. I'm back in WA on. 6000 sf lot in a downtown area. No 50ft mast for me. But I'll figure something out and get in the air from home with one or more HF rigs I picked up over time. And I'll take the KX-3 out to a park or beach and see what I can do. For me, HF radio is at least as much about the "fishing" as it is about the "catching." I like building stuff or assembling pieces of gear and seeing what works. But that's me. Others will want use-right-out-of-the-box experience. They want to drive, not work on cars ( to use another analogy), and that's fine. Talk to other operators, watch YT videos, find an elmer in your local club. Figure out why you want to be on HF, and go for it. You can start reasonably small, if you are willing to accept some compromises, and, if you like it, you can build from there. I call amateur radio a pursuit rather than a hobby, and it's been great fun.
Neglected to say that the Indy 500 contact was from western WA to Indianapolis, SSB on 10 watts.
The G90 is great if you want to work FT8 or CW. You can make SSB contacts on 20w but they will be more local. If you are in the US hams are everywhere. The G90 also comes with a fantastic tuner. Makes a good POTA radio too. FYI I have the 7300 too. Both are good.
Not only local. With a G-90, working POTA with a efficient portable vertical, I have made contacts to all parts of the country and some DX. Sunspot cycle is good and the G-90 is not my first choice for general operation. That said, someone with little money gets a Radio, Antenna Analyzer and Wide Range Tuner for less that $450. They learn to be better operators because they have to. My first radio was a used Yaesu FT-450, efficient vertical and wire and a used 800 watt amp. I had a big mouth, but little experience.
Just remember Jim you did as for our responses here , so time for a little tough love to the new guys . Save your money , and buy something reliable ! As previously stated an ic7300 paired with a dx commander and some good coax from a reputable dealer , along with a cheap Ldg tuner will do just about everything you need to do . Don’t waste your money on the g90 , it’s cheap junk and you will never compete with the bigger stations on the air . Buy something you can grow with . This hobby does require some up front cost , but after that it’s pure enjoyment. Good dx kids de N2JDX
Counterpoint, The G90 is a better portable rig for power limited use. The 7300 would not be feasible for my use 5 months out of the year. With a cooling fan you can run 100% duty cycle digi forever. I ran a G90 for 3 years and broke plenty of piles ups (couldn't break plenty more) but that's half the fun
I can agree with your point about the portability aspect of that radio over a 7300 , however if we are talking portable where battery life is a concern there are still some extremely viable options over the g90 and not much more money either. Let’s take into consideration the yaesu ft891 , tiny , will run forever on a battery , cheap , and it’s a full 100watt radio . I do see what you’re saying from a portable standpoint , I personally would not recommend a 7300 for that . 73’
Save your money, young man, you're going to need it for what you want! If it takes 10 years, solar max will be here.😊
If you ask around your local ham community, you may find yourself a good deal on an entry level rig to get started. Almost every group of hams I ever knew has at least one friend who buys and sells rigs all the time.
Great video as always. Mike - K2CDM
Get an Elmer, with Zoom/WebEx they can be remote
Do you know what is happening within the ARRL? I just received my membership renewal, which showed over a 50% percent increase if you add in the now separate print version of QST.
go to a ham club meeting... if you don't have money and are a new ham... some of old guys are going to Give you gear ! Most of us have multiple older transcievers. Or somebody will lend you something to get started with. Do NOT spend lots of money on new radios.. used radios are the only sensible thing to buy.. unless you have tons of spare cash.
Lol…worked my way to an extra in three months, year and half ago……still not on hf…the price of used equipment is too high for the risk…got a new vhf/uhf ar 5rm for 25 bucks.
It costs as much or as little as you like.
I started with a used valve KW202 rx and KW204 valve tx, then FT101E. Then h/b G4CLF p.c.b. QRP 20m + 80m then made a p.c.b. for xtals and associated h/b boards for all h.f. bands.
Now still that and FT817ND, a Pixie on 5.262 MHz, old 1944 valve Wireless 19 Set, valve T.W. TopBander, Racal RA17L.
How much do you want to pay? It's up to you. What do you want and what do you expect.
G4GHB.
I have a question. I am not licensed. When I get license, I want to connect from Bangladesh to Chile. Which Antenna will you recommend me, Sir?
Which Yagi do you recommend for which frequency?
I want to long distance DXing from Bangladesh when I get license.
Best Wishes Sir W6LG.
Your CQ lesson always flashes in my brain.
Hello Jim ,
I'm John PD7JV < for one year now> Last 2 Years SWL Station to get intrest of H.A.M Radio Again.
After i was thinking wat to do on HF The Bands ? Digi modes and SSB .
I got a second hand Yaesy 991A (800Eur) , Chameleon Loop ant second hand (400 Eur) ,X-50 for VHF/UHF and a SWR Power meter,power supply, Coax .... Total Price around 1600 Euro.
My location is not aloud a big antenne.
The Yaesu 991A have also VHF/UHF so i don't have to by a second VHF Radio .
Low power max 20w SSB and 10W Digimodes i connect more than 6500 stations in one year.
Expirimental : make a Endfed ant 10,20,40M my self , for les than 35Euro working great on my Barge.
One year later i expand the hobby with more Radio's :-) The Radio Virus Got Me.
Close friends Radio HAM stations helpt me and i help also new hams .
73 To All have A Good DX.😎
ATU
Jim , may you have a healthy prosperous future
i enjoy your uploads , HAM sure is an addiction
I’ve had pretty good luck with qrz and swap.qth classifieds. Actually used to make a small living buying cheap and selling for going rates. I will not buy a rig unless I talk to the seller on the phone. It’s a bit of detective work but has worked ok for me. I don’t trust anything on eBay. Lots of great deals swing by. You just have to be there to contact before others. Kenwood 590,480sat, yaesu ftdx1200 or 3000s, all seemed to be priced ok in this highly inflated market. I miss when radios were made like tanks and not plastic toys. Hehe.