Parallel Filters, Pro Level: Flip It And Reverse It
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- In which I introduce the concept of filter inverting, and show you a few of the tricks it allows.
Music: 'Frown Upside Down' in all the usual places. Bandcamp link:
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• Parallel Filter Tricks
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Dan, if I can beg your patience with a potentially stupid question, as perhaps you've addressed this in THIS video, BUT:
What do we achieve by using the opposite filter and flipping the polarity of the signal, versus, just using the appropriate filter type to our task, in phase?
Maybe I can concretize that question to make it explicit: If I want to cut say 3 db of midrange, say at 500hz, with a gentle Q, of my mix, why would I not insert an eq on my mixbuss, set a bell at 500hz with a gentle Q, and drop the bell by 3db?
How would using the opposite filter with flipped polarity (I suppose on a parallel buss?) get me anything different?
I've seen you demonstrate many different techniques using parallel but inverted signals, in particular the Super Separator, for two instruments/signals in the same frequency range, by creating a comb filter on the first signal, and the same but inverse comb filter on the second signal, thereby essentially multiplexing the two signals... the separation is... magical! Really next level, and I'm literally about to use it on a mix with a chopped Rhodes sample and the guitar buss, where I've filtered the Rhodes and the guitars for aesthetic reasons, but they technically occupy, and therefor mask and generally lack clarity, in that eq range while being played simultaneously, which they are pretty much throughout the song.
I write this to say I understand your gospel about the power and potential of polarity inversion and filters... but in this particular example, I didn't really grasp what you were getting at. Again, I understand technically what you are doing, and what the effect is, but I'm not understanding how it is different, how the effect is different, than a standard application of inline eq.
I've been so verbose here in an attempt to articulate this as accurately as possible, so you can, if you choose, respond to exactly what I'm asking.
And possibly request a slight augmentation of your video demonstrations, to give us a LITTLE more time to listen to your A/B's. You have a tendency to VERY quickly flip between A and B and then immediately move on. This doesn't allow the slow and or dumb ears among your audience, of which, I am one, to fully hear into the differences of A and B. And in particular in this video, you demonstrated A, while talking over it, then stopped speaking and switched to B and let that play for a moment then moved on. I, personally me, but I expect others, and potentially many others with less experience and dumber ears than me and mine, could not even begin to hear the sonic difference between A and B you were demonstrating. I know the general CZcams audience demands immediate and constant stimulation, so the necessary fast temp, and perhaps your time is valuable! so you are rushing. I get it all.
But please, for those of us who can maintain attention, and recognize the value of what you are trying to teach, that sort of next level mix knowledge that seems almost occult or magical as it is beyond simple volume, compression and eq settings which themselves can take an extremely long time to discern and control... can you slow down just a bit when you A/B changes and can you stop talking during that demonstration so we an hear the source material being altered?
With all due respect, and really, admiration! Thank you very much!
What you gain: first of all you can share a single filter (EQ band) between multiple channels in different amounts. 3 dB cut on the master is 3dB cut for everything. But your parallel filter could be cutting 3dB from guitars plus 6dB from drums but only 1dB from vocals, depending on the send levels from each part.
Plus you have total freedom to make it dynamic or non linear with any compressors, gates, saturators you have available. And morphing between lowpass and high shelf, or notch and bell cut, is cool and useful, and not really possible otherwise as far as I know.
Regarding examples: noted, I'll see what I can do. But I'm keen to keep people's attention as well! Really the best way to hear what I'm talking about is to try the technique in your own mix.
@@DanWorrall i second the request for slower A/B testing, or at least not talking over the A or B part. That’s something that catches me off guard in almost every vid.
@@whatskraken3886 Second.
@@DanWorrall Hi Dan, another amazing video - techniques I never heard of and would take me a decade of practice (if ever) to think about them. But I also would love to have a bit more time on the A/B without you interrupting it. We are not as skilled at hearing those and you are - and those videos help to train our ears too! :)
@@DanWorrall A simple solution to the A/B part would be: add text over the switching, so everyone can follow along with the information you want/need to share, while not audibly disturbing the comparison.
Altough i haven‘t figured out wether or not this fits into your „minimalistic“ style of visual presentation
"Clever but still wrong" - literally the story of my life.
haha
Learning that smart and correct are unrelated concepts just means you're trying things XD
Wrong definitely…! :P
Amen to that
weird flex but ok
I'm sure Dan has forgotten more tecniques than I know. Thanks for the lessons!
I think I don't know exactly what you do mean, but I'm sure i'll rememebr.
@@Rhythmattica what you mean by that?
Meaning?
I, as a non-reaper user, would whole-heartedly appreciate reaper specific video with further tricks. I had a great deal of fun reassembling your 3-band linear crossover reaper trick in pro tools and logic.
I liked the combination with the compressor/gate. It's like boolean algebra for audio.
Why this guy doing such logical and educational stuff?
#respect
To sell his NFTs obviously
@@TransistorLSD lol
At the risk of sounding like an ass...
This is the first time I've found a video on youtube where I had to watch it a second and third time and build a session in order to really get what was going on. What a joy!
In an effort to explain myself, of course I have found many things that I had never seen nor thought of before. But in every case I have been able to associate the process with other processes in my bag of tricks and come away with an overall working understanding of the idea. "Ooh. Cool idea. I'll try that next time it comes up." Not this time. Flummoxed, might be an accurate descriptive. I found Dan and FabFilter during "The Break" and have been excited over every new video he does. I am genuinely thankful for this channel and the few others really tackle the more complex stuff.
Great Work! A value to humanity and the future, as such.
Thanks so much for this series on parallel filters. Really excellent explainers, and these are super-valuable mixing techniques. I knew and used the basic "band pass in parallel" to _boost_ certain focus ranges, but you've inspired me with quite a few subtleties! I especially love the inverted phase tricks for dynamically cleaning up boxiness and mud.
As a fellow reaper user, please do consider it.
complex math with real world results. Wow. I kept having to remind myself from last week's video why I might not still just use a regular eq rather than the parallel filter, but the reasons are now obvious to me. More control. Add saturation, compression... and man, now this, inverting phase, compression turns into expansion, expansion turns into compression. Now another week spent trying to remind myself why... My brain only allowed me to get half-way through. The tab is still open for the 2nd half later. Maybe you could insert a lunch break into your videos.... or longer transitions with meditative music.... then jump into the "the opposite of this is that". :). I'm inspired. Thanks again.
This made me laugh so F**KING Hard omg! 😂
I read that new thumbnail as, "Turn that frown downside up" lol
dan's videos like this usually give me a headache
but the odd tips and tricks are worth it
Same 😂
insane routing skills. he.. i actually used quite some of your parallel bandpass filter tricks lately. you really manage to make me excited about simple EQs
OK, I'm going to have to watch this one like 10-12 times LOL. Brilliant
wow, my IQ literally increased by 1 point, thanks Dan! 😄
U mean eq
Yay for Dan on a Saturday evening!
Literally one of the most useful tricks I've ever come across
I love your voice so much haha, very not boring to listen to
This works so well. Dan Worrall is a proper smarty pants. Love it!
This sounds a lot like the magic behind the Soothe2 plugin
Wow man, your past two videos on parallel filters are pretty game changing when it comes to making drums punch through. In some of my favorite edm/bass music mixdowns I see this HUGE dip at around 300 hz that looks like it keeps getting sucked to the floor of the analyzer based on levels... not just an eq cut. This downward expansion trick seems to do just that and the flexibility of being able to send the busses at different levels to the parallel channel is great. Amazing work... Great videos as always, cheers and thank you.
I just wanted to say thank you so much for these past two videos. I'm a musician, but on the side to make extra money, I edit and engineer podcasts. These parallel filter tricks let me get 50/60% of the way there from just a decent home recording setup that most hosts have. This inversion trick helps especially remove those muddy frequencies while keeping the vouice sounding natural
Absolutely fenomenal usability of all your video lessons, this one in particular! This video alone could save at least a year of learning sound-production anywhere else and substitute at least a dozen other videos from vast sourses. I wish I had it before, it would have helped avoiding many mistakes and saving tremendous amount of time. Thank you very much, Dan! I greatly appreciate your knowledge, understanding, work and your willingness to share.🙏
01:10 Whooooo! I got it right. Thanks mandatory "introduction to quantum mechanics/spectroscopy/etc." courses during college (with all the wave mechanics shenanigans it involves). Who knew chemistry&physics would overlap so much with music production...
Well, as sound is a physical phenomenon, it was kinda obvious. But I keep getting amazed how much it helps in understanding what is going on in music production. E.g. the harmonic series is pretty much analogue to how electrons behave around nuclei, regarding their "quantised" energy levels (hey that is why they call it quantum mechanics 😲)
I JUST DISCOVERED THE BEST “de harsh”/ “de mud” TECHNIQUES EVER! Thnx Dan !
Jeezuss this is way too cool. I’ve never imagined such things. 45 years of mixing and I feel like an idiot. Thanks, Dan.
I'd love to see what changes/additions you make to a default Reaper setup, there are a few other Reaper CZcamsrs that make some interesting suggestions and I'd like to know what you do for your own workflow, what skin(s) you prefer, etc.
Thanks for all the quality content, your videos have inspired me to get more creative with my mixing!
every video teaches so much, thanks Dan
man i‘m in love with your videos
I keep coming back to this video to remind myself how fucking dumb and ignorant I am when using EQ.
Dan...you're a legend on a galactic scale, that's exactly what you are. And if someone tells you otherwise, let me know who is it so I can sneak into his house and shave his pet's head, to send him a message.
I wouldn’t mind a next part for Reaper users!
"although that's not going to stop me putting an affiliate link down below"
Lol! Love this guy.
Nothin wrong with that, especially when pointed out like that, companies can learn some stuff from this guy
Great video as always! My only minor suggestion would be to make the A/B examples a bit longer.
I like v3 of the thumbnail the best, _now_ I'm going to watch the video
PS I love your weird jazz music too
Yes for the Reaper specific processing!😀👍
I think Dan is a pretty cool guy. Eh filters drums and doesnt afraid of anything.
BUT WHO WAS PHONE
Brilliant Master Class, as usual, Sir Dan !
(-;
Dan, maybe the next part, you can explain how to turn this into a custom phase cancellation deesser.
Ayyeee weekend goals just expanded and saturated
This video RULES! Thanks, Dan.
This is the best game show on tv!
Killing it, Dan! I'm loving your evolution on your channel. Great work!
If I only could remember all this ...
Hey, thanks 👍
This is fun playing around with.
Well, my brain is totally fried now 🤯
I love it
because its hard doesn't make it impossible! Stay safe!
Going to need to watch this one a few more times, probably a dozen or so. My brain hurts.
You're the only one sharing these "secrets"
Hy Dan. Thank you for the tons of great content. I appreciate your factual approach and self critical perspective a lot. I've learn't so much from you. But i also can't remember, where you already touched the topics in the question i have. Please excuse me asking specifically.
When low cutting a snare sample (using Pro Q3 in natural phase mode) to get rid of some unwanted information, i make the following observation:
1. Sounds cleaner for the mix. Better separation for the elements below. Thats what i want and aimed for.
2. Obvsiously... Phaseshift. Channels L and R, previously being perfectly the same, now peak differently. (you talked about this...)
3. Overall peak is increased. (you talked about this)
4. The transient of the snare loses centeredness.
5. Low shelfing doesn't do the job.
Changing the sample is the least wanted option. It's beside that little beauty mistake the best fit and sounds exactly how i want.
What is a good idea to approach this -now- unsatisfying trade off (not getting 1. vs sacrificing 2. - 4.)?
Cheers!
1. Yeah, sure.
2. Not sure about this. Are you sure you're filtering left and right the same?
3. Yup.
4. Are you talking about stereo image? If so, same answer as 2. If you're missing the punch with the filter in, try flipping the polarity and see if that helps. You might need the polarity the opposite way around with the filter in.
5. Have you tried a really gentle 6dB (1 pole) filter?
@@DanWorrall Thanks for bothering :)
2. I'd give a naive yes with Pro Q3 Set in stereo (Stereo Sample)
5. Yes. Doesn't quite make it like the 12dB Slope but has the same problem
Love all these filter tricks, never knew there was so much more to it! I’d love to see more of these.
Wait...were you a magician and a comedian in a previous life? I learned a lot about filters and had a good chuckle. Thank you.
🤯 Wow. Just WOW! Dan has once again dazzled my mind and ears. I don't think I'll ever be OCD enough to dig down this deep in the weeds with audio. Or am I? Might have to get creative with the kick and bass now. Thanks!
2:21 Well, one of the reasons is when you're using FL Studio, the Fruity Parametric EQ 2 plugin does not have a built-in all-pass filter, so what I do-thanks to your video-I open the Patcher plugin which allows me to route a bandpass in parallel with the original signal (just like you showcased) and create an all-pass without having to pay for FabFilter's Pro Q3 because I'm just well-off enough to have one of my relatives purchase an FL Studio copy for me but just broke enough to not afford a bundle of FabFilter's plugins lol...
Anyway, great video as always!!
Fantastic information Mr Worrall!
pretty neat tricks, particularly the last one.
Would definitely work on my DAW, which isn't reaper.
You could just sidechain the kick’s frequency from the bass in Pro Q3, I don’t see how the last technique in the video is any better/different 🤔
The first few minutes were completely over my head, but as soon as you were talking about the practical applications (and the examples given), I got a brief glimpse at what I actually might be looking at: and I was drawn in!
Since you Dan, were the one who introduced me to Reaper, I'd say (on behalf of all other Reaper users of course...) it'd be just fair if you could give us a Reaper specific follow up - showing us in depth what's going on; because this is real advanced stuff...or is it just me? Anyway - great video! Thank you for your passion for this - I'm glad I once subscribed!
at 2:36
that’s the exact same drum kit on Kool and the Gang - Fresh.
interesting method...thanks...
No thinking only sharing 😁 thanks for the great content dan!
I too like to break the no-reverb-on-bass rule as often as possible.
Been waiting for this since the first premiered, and now I know why! DOPE
This is mind bending
Amazing
Holy shit, Danman :0
I recently got a plugin Tomo LISA because it operates similar to this process, seems helpful
Youre the best Dan! Thanks for all the great content!
"...so we've created an all-pass filter"
*metal riff plays*
Another geat video, thanks Dan!
Thanks, this is nice stuff!
This is genius
Thanks man
That is sick, Dan! Thanks 🙏🏻
i should take a look at how realtor’s built in filters show the affect on the gui and see if i can make an ens that shows you what you’re doing while letting you have a bunch of controls on parallel eq. there’s a plugin that works like plugindoctor but i forget the name, and it would be hard to set up metering with with everything duplicated over to an instance that’s used for the metering
also would be cool to see what happens if there’s distortion on the filtered side, maybe that could be a good followup
Love it
Thanks you Dan - Great video
Am a Cubase user. I wouldn’t mind seeing more reaper specific stuff. Maybe that will convince me to finally make the switch ;)
Make the reaper video and see if the users can come up with insane methods to replicate it for other DAW's
This is super awesome thx Dan ❤️🔥
have you ever worked with nate mercerau? your music reminds me of theirs (great btw❗️)
Reaper master race
That's all I wanted to say.
That's some G.O.A.T level 'I will never need but am glad I now know it' knowledge right there!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Genius
great
First of all... you are doing God's work! Thank you for your expertise and for sharing it so gladly with everyone. I must admit, I still don't understand a lot of your videos, but whenever I break through, it's just gold nuggets lying around!
I have a question though:
What is the difference between the last example (lowering bass when kick hits) and using a normal multiband compressor on the bass sidechained to the kick? Is the only benefit being able to use this on a SEND track and send multiple sources to it?
1. You don't need a multiband comp with a sidechain input.
2. The multiband comp is effectively a dynamic low shelf EQ. It won't morph into a high pass filter.
@@DanWorrall Yes, thank you! I see now that even Pro-MB only has shelf options. Once again, thank you! This is amazing
Started using reaper recently and enjoying it. Would love seeing more specific stuff like this beside Reaper Mania or Blog are doing. Thank you
Check out Arya IDDQD Sound.
Always top tier content
Awesome use of parallel filters. As a mastering tool, excellent. The single eq band limitation, (if I understand that right), is what would make me hesitate in general mixing. Except the low end control, and high end cleaning. that amount of control I will definitely use.
- as I’ve been mixing for a decade now I can definitely hear the phase of things and this makes this extra useful.
Awesome!
Hi man...u can now do that parallel routing with waves...where u can now load third party plugins
Dan you are an audio genius. Thank you for all your videos ❤️
I literally have no idea what you said before you started working specifically on the drum bus. Was listening to the music. Cool microtonal scale, whatever that was. I hope you weren't saying anything too provocative🤣 I saw the pictures at least.... you were turning an EQ into a volcano and a black hole and back, AFAICT....
🤣me checking out at 6:08 again
Okay I need to watch again, whatever you did a bit after 7:14, when you switched that channel in and out... I need that.
Thanks!
It’s your preferifenwenyen
Awesome video as always!!
Wow
creating a second track to add into the recording as I play through the first tract?
Because you can delay the sends? Yes, please do that video!
Dan i wish you would:
- let audio examples play for longer without you talking over them... 1.5 seconds just isn't enough to form an opinion
- if you're comparing 3 audio samples, like you do at 13:52, instead of saying what's coming next ("here's with the gate:"), write it on the screen. easier to follow, and your voice doesn't obscure the difference
Very interesting video, as always!
isn't this how most dynamic EQ's work? atleast parallel ones
Most dynamic EQs are not parallel. But yes that's how Nova works. Setting it up manually gives you more options for things like dynamics processing, plus you can morph between a notch and a bell cut etc.
I like peanut butter !
I may be biased as a reaper user, but please sir, can I have more?