5 Electrical Code Lies DIYers Should Stop Believing!
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- There’s a lot of false information about NEC requirements and standards here on youtube. I’ve put together a list of the five most common false claims that I’ve seen and we’re go to clear them up right now. ✅ Get your 2023 Code Book Here: amzn.to/48IEyGY
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I'm a retired 55 yrs. Master Electrician and am constantly amazed at the shade tree tradesmen giving poor and dangerous advice on CZcams. Your site is a very pleasant relief using facts and actual code references to point out the correct way to do electrical work.
I too have been in the electrical industry (mostly large industrial work) my whole life either as an electrician or electrical engineer. You have me on years though. I just turned 60 and spent 40 years in the trade.
I hate old crusty electricians that think they know everything because it was written in a document designed to keep people out of the market. Unions are the worst.
Way too many youtubers "dictate" you must do things their way. It's good to have someone who references the written code.
Thank you. Im certainly not perfect but I try to make sure to spread factual knowledge rather than opinion. Although electricians all seem to be opinionated. lol. Myself included.
BM is correct it is not a mandate and this is an old debate. The person who called me out on it was an engineer who was being a dick.
When I get bored, I find an electrical youtube video and go to the comment section. 😁😁
Funny stuff here 😂
33 year general and electrical contractor here. Totally agree with your points. Although not required, all my projects have 12 ga wire for outlets. Also I always have separate circuits for lighting and receptacles. It never seemed smart to have the lights go out if an outlet tripped a breaker. An observation, as I am now in my 70's very few inspectors even try to challenge my expertise. Most inspections last no more than 5 minutes.
Thanks for sharing
I'm similar to you. Most inspections are me giving him info he needs for the certificate and then talking about retirement. Well, he's talking, I'm just dreaming. I too used nothing but 12 for outlets most my career, without question. That was until the great reset of a few years ago and prices skyrocketed. Now I'll give them the option. In today's world I think it's foolish but if they want the lowest price then it's 14 wire everywhere but the exceptions. And BTW, did he miss a coup locations where 12 is required? I didn't hear dining rooms or garage. He did have a 2023 book in the picture but surely they didn't eliminate those, did they?
@@snakeinthegrass7443 I did say Garages but not dining rooms. They are not required in dining rooms and thats not a change. Ive been in the electrical industry to 4 decades and I don't think the code ever required 20A circuits there. I do have the 2023 code and I took the 15 hour update as well.
@@BackyardMaine I apologize about the garage, geez I guess I missed it. Thanks for your credentials but it's unnecessary bc I know a pro when I see one. I've been around for almost 40 years myself. I wasn't questioning your knowledge, I simply did not hear you say those locations and was asking the other poster if you said them or if code changed. (not worded very well)
Anyway, I never looked it up before bc I was always told by coworkers and inspectors alike that dining rooms require 12 wire. Since my book is in the truck and it's nasty outside, I tried my luck on the internet and it appears this is one of those grey area that gets interpreted differently. I was searching some forums and such and it seems to come down to 210.52 (1) which refers to the small appliance circuits serving all receptacles covered by 210.52 (A) Pantry, Dining Room, etc. By default, then, they would also be on a 20 amp circuit. I have never seen anyone or certainly haven't done it myself, and that's pulling ANYTHING off the countertop outlets except other countertop and island receptacles. That's crazy, imo.
So in short from what I've found in a few minutes of searching, that section says the small appliance circuit "must serve" those other outlets in those locations. IMO that means a 20 amp circuit - and from my understanding it's bc of things like buffet tables with hot plates and other meal-related appliances. I do know that even inspectors disagree on codes from time to time. I've been frustrated several times over conflicting interpretations. So if your people pass 14 wire in the dining rooms, great. Maybe it's a geographical thing as well. I'm in upstate NY, near Albany, so maybe they're a little stricter, Idk. I just do what they tell me. So no hard feelings. I sensed you were a little upset with my post and I'm sorry if it came across as offending. Peace and blessings
That is how I, a DIYer, do it. Just makes sense. I began rewiring parts of our 85 year old house after my mother had the fuse box replaced with a breaker panel (by a professional, of course) and breakers started tripping. Left all the overhead light fixtures and most receptacles on one circuit. Was a rats nest to untangle. We're all conduit, so that did make some things easier.
I used to be a jack of all trades. I settled into one trade and have subscribed to a few true tradesmen's channels that are run by knowledgeable and skilled in the trades that I used to think I was capable in. I've learned a lot since then and my biggest take away has been "just because I learned to do something, does not equate to doing it correctly. " Thanks for taking your time to help us Jacks to learn.
It's my pleasure Scott.. This channel is designed to help out people just like yourself. Thanks for watching.
anyone that says they know all, doesn't know chit, best advice I ever got from grandpa and dad
Great short video!
@@BackyardMainetalking about the Wago lever nuts in a wet location, can they be used by themselves when wiring a receptacle in a bathroom? Or do you need to place them in a Wago Gel Box to meet code? Thank you for any advice you can give me.
@@watup110875 Try 30 years as a general contractor. Hands-on That means all the trades.
As a licensed master electrician in Maine - I approve of this message!
Depending in which city I worked in, I always ask inspector what he wants to see in his city. Saves me a whole lot of headaches.
I ask what you require. The answer is I'm not a teacher. What does the code say and I'm licensed
I have always have a problem with the power of building inspectors, they need to have their wings clipped. Just look at Lehtos law, you do all these things to make one inspector happy and the next one tells you none of it had to be done happens all the time. I had one inspector tell me on an out side door you can replace a window that keeps getting broken or you can put in a solid door , but you cannot put a wood panel in a door that did not come with one HE DROPPED IT WHEN I OFFERED TO TAKE HIM TO COURT AND MEANT IT !! ALL MALE BOVINE EXCREMENT !!!
That has always been my go to! Ask the inspector what he (or she)wants to see. They appreciate the nod to their "expertise"...
@@bobpawtucket1336 Well you probably better figure out sooner than later ... if you engage in pee'ing contests with them . For the most part they will be happy to oblige you and show you where the bear shiots in the woods .
Because their job is to clip your wings if you are not flying straight .
Other than a few odd cases , I can't say I have ever had much problems with inspectors. And most in my experience are actually helpful . Which is how I firstly learned most of the electrical requirements starting out in the jack of all trades handyman line of work I've been in for 40ish years .
Which I have installed nearly 2 dozen meter main service entrance setups and lots of branch work.
Permits taken out by the home owner or somebodies license they knew or general contractor I was working for at the time .
Less is more when dealing with inspectors , and usually it is always better to be there if they fail something rather than having to discern it from their paperwork.
Try and view them as helpful rather than adversarial would be the best advice I can tell you ;)
@@bobpawtucket1336 I'd say engaging in power struggles with an inspector is never a good idea , unless you enjoy those kind of contests and all the friction that come with them .
Try the less is more approach maybe ;)
Thank you!! So glad to see someone debunk this misinformation. Too many youtubers ot checking their facts before spreading it all over fhe world !! Subscribed.
Well said! Welcome to the channel.
If you think CZcamsrs are bad, think of all the electricians that have been misled by a poorly informed inspector who "interpreted" the code the wrong way....
Interesting, how I learned all of this back in the 80s, and it still hasn’t changed.
I still have all of the rules from back then in my head.
I still do a lot of electrical, and I always go toward the side of safety for ANY project.
I’ve had a lot of arguments over the years, and always win with the Safety First argument.
When in doubt, over engineer it!
Works in plumbing and carpentry, too!
I've never done anything with electrical but watched anyway just because I'm curious. I appreciate the concise video and not just ramble on making it 15 minutes long like many other channels do. You get right to the info. Very helpful. 💛
I appreciate that! Thanks for watching.
Had a City plans reviewer fail my plans on an industrial project. Said all the CB sizes exceed the wire ampacity, duh, they were motor circuits, had to educate him on the Code for motor circuits.
I have run into similar issues in the past. lol
That would fail in europe too, thats why they use "type D curve" circuit breakers for motors.
@@bladeoflucatiel we use those as stand alone breakers in panel boxes we build. if it's a premade panel 120/240v 3 phase it uses standard breakers which don't have different curves .
I'm impressed.. you kept your presentation concise, to the point, and actually gave something informative! Yes on the Equipment listing vs. NEC! As a former compliance officer for Electronic products, I can tell you that Certification was law in the companies I worked for. So, I look for that UL, CSA, TUV, CUL, and ETL marks on what I purchase and use. Great Video, Thanks!
Good, clear video. The NEC is a minimum standard, it is not a design guide. As consulting design engineer, I've come across some inspectors who are retired contractors who have been doing things wrong for years.
Thank you.
I've seen the exact opposite of what you described electrical engineers that think they know it all when it comes to the NEC 40 years of hands on in the trade is more viable than four years of book learning
How about the "certified home inspectors" who never worked a single day in the trades? They cause more problems than anyone.
@@kd9856 One reason I retired early was a school project where none of the electricians read or spoke English. So none of the drawing notes were followed and the work met "NEC minimums" but not the specific State requirements for educational facilities shown on the design drawings.
Thank you for the videos and the correct information. There is a lot of false info out there and most won’t take the time like you have. Thanks again. Keep up the good work.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching and commenting. 👍
The house I live in has the upstairs bathroom light and plug, kitchen light, range hood fan, downstairs bathroom light and outlet, kitchen light, range hood fan, patio light, dining room outlet, and three living room outlets all on one 15 amp breaker. The landlord doesn't care that it often trips. I've tried to tell him that just knowing the circuit is overloaded means his fire insurance is voided. He just laughed. I have three months left on my one year lease and am looking for a place to move to.
Good idea to move. Regrettably, his insurance will likely not be voided, however. Many, many fires are caused by human error, stupidity, or cheapness, and are still likely valid claims. The insurer would have to know that the circuit was overloaded, and then find out that the landlord knew it well ahead of time. These are both hard to determine after a fire.
Every year at Christmas there are dozens of house fires caused by "octopus" outlet multipliers for light strings on skimpy extension cords. Most people know or could know that this is hazardous, but the resulting fire is likely a covered claim.
Even if it is overloaded, that's what the overcurrent protection device is for - so it can't start a fire. I mean after all, you can at any time overload any outlet in your house, and that doesn't magically void your insurance.
That's not only dangerous but just plain stupid.
Codes change and what was allowed yesterday may not be tomorrow. If your circuit is overloaded then the breaker will trip, no need move and make a scene.
If it was grandfathered in that way and was allowable at one time, you may be out of luck. Lots of older houses from the 40's and 50's only had four or six circuits total. If it was a modern hack job done without a permit though, you may be able to withhold paying rent until it is fixed. You will have to do your own research to find out what your rights are here.
Subscribed! Great video. No mumbling, no long intro asking us to smash the like or subscribe, good graphics, camera in focus, clear sound. Short and informative. Thanks.
Wow thank you and thanks for the sub!
Subscribed! I've done a lot of electrical work as a DIYer over the years and a couple of these were definitely myths I had fallen for. Monday I'm finally getting my 1960s vintage Federal Pacific panel replaced (by a highly recommended, licensed electrician) and have been browsing around trying to get a better understanding of things. So glad I found your channel today.
Awesome! Thank you!
I very much enjoy the straightforward presentation format you use. It's a nice antidote to the wasteful and erroneous content that floods CZcams.
Thank you very much!
Good to know that my "codes for homeowners" book is right about these 5 things!
Thanks for posting! The misinformation other CZcamsrs upload also puts lives at risk because of fire, electrocution, or other bodily injury.
Excellent video. It's obvious you put a lot of work into the content prior to the filming. That resulted in a lot of great content presented in a concise manner. Thank you.
Much appreciated! Making content is actually a lot of work but it's all worth it when I read comments like this. Thank you.
THANK YOU FOR BEING CLEAR AND PRECISE
You are so welcome! Thanks for watching.
Well said John. And by sticking to the NEC Standards, one is more likely than not, to perform safe work that will pass inspection. If someone sites the code, tell them to show you where. Make them prove it. Well done John. Thank you.
Thank you my friend.. I have asked for the code reference a few times but either they don't reply or reference the wrong article. Like article 81.. lol
Very nicely presented John. I only have one pet peeve that wasn't mentioned. The use of the word "Illegal" to point out a code violation. That would mean I could be charged with a crime and receive a fine or jail time! AHHHH!! " Non-compliant" would be proper and even then everything is "subject to the interpretation of the authority having jurisdiction" Meaning, You do it the way the AHJ wants it regardless of what the code says.
Data-driven, to the point, efficient with your words. Subscribed! Well done and thank you.
Awesome, thank you!
This would be very helpful, if I were wiring my house. Unfortunately, I'm wiring my boat, prepping it as a liveaboard. ABYC requirements are very different than NEC.
For one thing, you never use solid wire on a boat. Sometimes the toughest part of the job is knowing which standard applies.
The issues I see with the NEC is that old work never has to be upgraded. Houses built 50 or 60 years ago were wired with maybe 10 or 12 circuits and still function today. Even though we are using more electrical items today we are drawing less current due to modern electronics. If I turned everything in my house on I might draw 50 to 60 amps on a 200 amp service.
The way I understand it regarding pigtails at a receptacle is the receptacle would have to be listed as a splicing device. It has nothing to do with the NEC. You would have to contact the manufacturer of the receptacle to find out if their device was listed for splicing.
You kind of right which is why the statement about pigtails being required is false. Also all UL listed 120v receptacles sold in the US are listed for pass through. As a matter of fact 15A receptacles have a 20A pass through current rating.
DIYer. These videos are very helpful. Love having such an experienced and calm voice to guide me. Thank you sir.
Thank you so much.
You do a great job of getting to the point. Thanks!
I appreciate that! Thanks for watching.
Number 6 is the 15 amp duplex receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.
Great video, thanks.
Thank you for the attempt to point out the difference between code requirements and installer preferences. Being a former code inspector I have always been infuriated by the "experts" providing misinformation about the code requirements. I personally think some of this school of thought originated by way of uneducated inspectors thinking they know better and put their own spin on the requirements. The trades cave into these "requirements" rather than face a failed inspection since many of these items do no actual harm.
That's an interesting point and may be a contributing factor. Since I stared this channel I have learned that there are a lot of electricians that are confused about code requirements. I think many just go by what they were told by their superiors or maybe inspectors as well.
Great, concise content. I was an electrician 20 years ago, having given up the trade to pursue other options. Let's face it, I was tired of pulling wire in an attic when the outside air temp was 100 to 107 with 70 to 90 percent humidity. I specialized in re-wiring whole houses during flip renovations. Seeing the changes to the NEC is amazing
Thanks my fellow electrician. Crawling through attics is a nightmare.
I'm a non electrician that has done a fair bit of wiring over the years and I worry about code compliance all the time when I do it. I was happy to see in the video that I didn't believe "the lies that DIYer should stop believing". One area that I remain confused about is what cable type is required for garages?I just finished a job where I added a lot of new electrical features to our garage and I used MC partially because I think it's better for garages where the wires are exposed and partially because I thought it was a code requirement. Mostly I kept the wire in the stud bays but there were a few places for convenience we ran the wire outside the stud bays near the top plates.
There seem to be a lot of factors on the wiring type required in garages
1. Attached vs. Non attached
2. Kept in the study bay or not
3. NM vs. MC vs EMT
Some are just good ideas, especially the service loop, if your DYI, and you are the only inspector that matters, keep the extra wire, might come in handy later. 12 gauge on a 15 amp circuit is overkill, but allows for you to swap the breaker and the fixtures without running new wire. Both costs a little more, but its not like your wiring a full house.
Refreshing to see a video that is specific and truthful!!!!👍
I appreciate that!
It always amazed me how some building inspectors, with little or no actual training, were surprised when I would quote or quickly find the NEC reference on circuits they said were under/over amperage. I would always split the lighting/outlet circuits with outlets 20 amp and lighting 15 amp on separate breakers.
Clear and concise presentation! Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
I graduated from electrical trade school 50 years ago back in the old county, I'm not licensed in the US 🇺🇸. I learned a lot from your videos. Thank you 👍
That is awesome! Thank you.
Excellent content! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
My pleasure! Thank for watching
You can find a code restriction against a cord with dual male ends, i.e. plugs on both ends.
I must say I’ve never heard of any of these misconceptions; though that may be because I’m an electrician and learned through the code. I’ll ad that some devices may be bared by municipal ordinance even if allowed under NFPA 70, NEC; for example all of the devices we hardwire must be UL listed.
Good content John! I have been blessed with an Electrical instructor as one of my best friends, and now my son is a licensed Journeyman. I know most of the code, but not all. I don't argue with folks about electrical; I simply ask if they are a licensed Journeyman like my son is; the rest is a moot point. My most recent inspection of my new shop building got a passing approval, with a smile by the inspector, he pointed out one upgrade I might think of, but other than that - "Good Job" was his final comment.
That’s awesome. Good work. I’m retired now but I spent my whole career in the electrical industry as a licensed electrician and eventually an electrical engineer.
Thx for the clarification. Sparkies can really get into it over code.
Good video, sounds like "discussions that may have come up with inspectors". NES is basic framework document with many exceptions listed. Intent is to do best practices that keep the next guy alive. In TX, very little training required before Electrician on their own. My top two worst finds: 2) septic pumps wired w Romex. Needs water proof type of insulation on conductors. 2) Stoves not wired with 3 cond+grd. Old style 220 v 2cond+grd wiring short lifes the newer smart ovens or stoves. Thank you.
Thank you, as a class 1 and 2 licenses holder in GA. for 25 years I too become frustrated by some peoples "Shared personal interpretation " of the N.E.C. it often makes me question the overall effectiveness of the reading skills taught in our public school system and our community colleges. :-) L8R G8R
I have actually told some commenters who insist they are right.. "I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you".
@@BackyardMaine
Very true!
As with a drukard, you can always tell a dummy, ya just can't tell em much!
:-) L8R G8R
Well done, right to the point, direct to the point. Cheers!
Thank you..
About to help with some wiring at my local makerspace, your vids were a great, very quick and concise way to check what I needed to know about code. Thanks!
Awesome.. thanks.
Personally when it comes to pig tailing outlets, I think the method is just better practice as the advantage it provides is if the outlet fails in the future it won’t kill everything else down stream
Did a lot of wiring and problem that sometimes arises with making pigtails they add to the box volume and often create a violation for not having a large enough box. Have used spec grade receptacles and when the customer ordered a last minute add on had to run a third 12/2 NM to an existing wall case then use approved spec grade receptacles that each screw can accept two wires under the pressure plate ( one on each side ) and only use a wire nut for the ground wires.Will use the green wire nut with a pass thru hole to save a wire that could make you add to cubic inch space needed .
I recommend DIYers purchase the NEC Handbook. It has the complete NEC in one color of print and explanations, examples in a different color. Also includes pictures and drawings. Therefore is about twice as thick as the NEC. Some of the NEC is confusing and having something written just a little different helps. Also a second source of information is helpful when dealing with someone that does not understand. I purchase the handbook every other cycle.
That's great advice..
Yeah, but unfortunately spending $280 for a huge printed book, just to replace an outlet is not really a reasonable ask for most DIYers.
It actually rather pisses me off that these are codes that are fundamental to doing work safely and in some cases could actually make the difference between a safe environment and a deadly hazard that could burn down a house and/or kill a family member, yet they're stuck behind several-hundred-dollar paywalls (and even then only provided in hard-to-use printed forms with no search ability, etc), pretty much guaranteeing that lots of the people who really _should_ be reading them will just not be able to, or won't want to.
There really should be a better and cheaper way for non-professionals to have access to this really important information, IMHO.
The series of Code Check books available at lumber yards is a great resource and reasonably priced.
@@foogod4237AFAIK, there is a PDF version, but it's also behind a paywall.
Source: I found such a file on the High Seas.
Lol, I caught flack in one of my videos for saying the receptacle is upside down. Working in a hospital as an electrician for 45yrs I was used to putting them ground up as metal cover plates are used and when a plate screw came loose and fell out the metal plate would hang on the ground instead of the hot/neutral prongs. Seen it happen many times even though all receptacles are checked as per code periodically! Never hurts to go the extra mile when safety is a concern.
Very useful video! Thank you!
Thank you. 👍
Service loops are code to have now here in Canada. We have done them for many years now, regardless. They have saved a lot of headaches over the years by having them!
Plug strips are often used as face-up receptacles on countertops. This was a fatal mistake for 33 passengers and 1 crew member on the dive boat Conception, where wet dive gear was being recharged.
A simple equation to remember: Saltwater + plastic + electricity = fire. And that applies to any water when it has something dissolved in it.
U.L. has minimum spacing requirements for high voltage circuit board traces. But when the surface is contaminated, those can still arc over.
Finally a well informed correct explanation of current n.e.c. well done sir !!!
Thank you..
Wow, if I had moved any faster I would have broken the sound barrier by moving so fast to hit the like button!!!! Because number one was the biggest argument I had with another electrician I was working around on a job site a while back!!! Thank you for this video!!! 👍🤜
Wow, thanks! Glad it was helpful my friend.
Wow all of these were great! I followed along with my 2023 NEC book, with newly installed tabs, man that was a workout placing all of them. To be honest it actually makes it harder to get to sections of the book...oh well. Anyway, not only are your videos very well edited, your way of speaking and camera presence is top notch. My wife and I live in a modular home, manufactured in 2004. As far as I know all of our receptacles are 14 gauge with 15 amp breakers. I could be wrong, I need to pull the panel cover off again, but I'm pretty sure the only 20 amp breakers are the ones I installed. That does become a problem when you try to run two heating appliances at the same time. For instance our tv stand electric fireplace the front room and a hair dryer in the master bathroom. Trips the breaker every time, also why would they put two rooms on opposite ends of the home on the same circuit. I wonder if a 12 and 20 setup would allow that to operate. Last year we pulled out a large garden tub, and I added a couple of 20 amp circuits and receptacles since I knew we would be running a freezer as well as a second fridge in that area. I am totally subscribed to this channel. I watch a lot of Electrician U, but you could become my favorite YT channel. Thanks for all your hard work, I know its really time consuming to put these videos together including editing everything.
Thank you so much. I love reading comments like this. It makes all the hard work worth doing. Dustin over at Electrician U does a great job with his videos as well. He's a very knowledgeable electrician. I have been an electrician and then an electrical engineer for my whole career. I'm retired now. I started making videos for a hobby and now it's become more of a business. lol. Welcome to the channel my friend.
I would love to see more of these!
I can think of several "codes people should stop believing" - even seasoned electricians!
I have been hearing that. I am going to keep make code videos since they are performing very well on the channel. I don't know if you saw my latest video about a new code change for 2023.
@@BackyardMaine no I did not... I will look for it... I'm currently studying for my license I'm on 2020... your video came up ... good stuff!
not sure what's made it to your list but I was shocked no pun intended about three-way switch requirements...
You are amazingly helpful! Thank you!!
Thank you... Happy to help!
My current home has 20A outlets in the kitchen, laundry, and bathrooms.
My last house had them on 15A circuits until I added 20A to the kitchen.
I enjoy being able to run a toaster oven and a microwave at the same time, and have the refrigerator kick on too, without a breaker tripping.
amen, forgot coffee pot ROFL
@@watup110875 Yeah, the hot water pot pulls a few amps.
My poor kitchen has separate circuits for the fridge, garbage disposal, dishwasher, and the lights, but only one circuit for the counter-top outlets. We can't run the toaster-oven and microwave at the same time, unfortunately. Or the induction kettle plus one either, for that matter 😞
@@junkerzn7312 I hope your bedrooms and living room don't share those circuits.
When I would trip the kitchen breaker, my TV and the computer in the spare room would have no power.
@@patmcbride9853 Thankfully all the rooms mostly have their own circuits, but there are definitely a few really odd circuits in the house
One of the oddest circuits is a single outlet in one of the bedrooms that is on the bathroom's GFCI circuit (bathroom on the other side of the wall from the outlet). The other outlets in the bedroom are on their own circuit.
I kept tripping the bathroom GFCI with a particular surgy piece of equipment in the room. Finally got fed-up enough to go into the bathroom and rewire the GFCI plug. So now the room plug is on the same circuit, but not on the GFCI. The bathroom plugs are still on the GFCI of course.
-Matt
Thank you, from a retired master electrician. There so many crazy ideas and beliefs in this trade.
No doubt! I'm retired now as well and I love it..
Grampa had his own code for his shed, just wire nut together and wrap with plenty of tape, no box needed.
I have seen that and worse. I actually rewired a home after a fire that has started where someone connected zip cord to a 20A circuit using wire nuts and tape but no box. The zip cord fed an outlet for an electric heater on the bedroom. Luckily nobody was hurt.
Wow.. 2 of these I myths I believed because of others on CZcams (the double wiring, and the outlet up/down orientation). Thank you.
Glad it helped. Thanks for watching.
Thanks, I was one of the folks who believed the pigtale lie. I hadn't taken the time to look it up, but I can certainly see where folks would make that mistake since multi-wire circuits are not well understood.
I'm going to make a video about multi-wire branch circuits because you're correct that many people don't really understand them or all the requirements for using them.
Required or not, I still find it a bad idea to run all your current through that dinky little tab on the side of the receptacle. I was advised against doing that by an instructor and have removed at least a couple receptacles that were hooked up like that and showed heat damage. One to the point of failure.
@@Wrencher_86 if you are seeing the tabs get that hot, something else is wrong. Likely, the circuit has been significantly overloaded. (space heaters, coffee pots, microwaves, and hairdryers are common culprits). I would ask if they have been resetting the breaker a lot. It could also be a manufacturing defect; many builders opt for the cheapest junk. I would also be skeptical of the overcurrent device. The tabs should handle 20 amps continuously, even on 15-amp devices. (mind that you can't legally pull the total rating for over 3 hours without derating.)
Anyone who buys the cheapest receptacles at the big box store is rolling the dice.
I hang out at an electrical contractor's forum. Every once in a while, a newbie will come on seriously asking about ground up vs ground down. This immediately triggers a food fight in the comment section that makes the Civil War look, well, civil. All in good fun, of course.
Just like "what oil should I use" on car forums and media platforms.
Another thing to be aware of is that not every state accepts the most recent version of the NEC into law when it comes out. The service loops are legal in this version but aren't in older versions and might not be in the next version.
I posted a pic of what state have adopted what version of the NEC. But the 18” max cable length between the last support and the box is nothing new
@@BackyardMaine actually, it is very new code wise. It used to be required to be a 12" length of cable to the box. How we used to have to get these service loops is between staples with the one closest to the box being tight enough that it supports the cable but loose enough that you could slide it through the staple.
@@BackyardMaine The "within 12" I remember from older code cycles, but 18" max cable length was first included in the 2020 NEC. My 2020 book is highlighted as a change from the previous code. I think the length between the box and last support was previously undefined. I don't have an older version to look back at though. Good video.
@@michaelduy9055 Hmm, you may be right. My memory isn't what it used to be. I have a 2017 code out in the shop. I'll check it out and get back to you. Thanks.
@@ianbelletti6241 You're probably right. I have an older (2017) code book in the shop. I'll have to check. My memory isn't what it used to be. lol Thanks
Thanks for the truth, and let it set others free.
You should see how mobile homes are wired from the factory. It's a mockery of any electrical safety codes. One 15amp breaker on 14/2 runs half the mobile home. 9recepticles 4ceiling lights 1bathroom fan. Breaker trips constantly. Homeowner gets sick of it and installs a 20amp breaker on that 14/2 wire running half the mobile home. If people are going to live in mobile homes, our government needs to shut down the lobbyists and require mobile home manufacturers to wire according to more strict wiring safety standards.
So, I'm new to this. Does this ever happen - an inspecting agent requires something even though it is NOT required by the NEC code. Has that happened to anyone? How do you handle that?
I hear it happens but I have only had it happen to me once when I was working a job in Vermont. I appealed to the state inspector and he said I was good to go. The local inspector was not happy though. It would have cost me $1000s to fix so I pushed back.
The local authority having jurisdiction is the final say provided he is following local ordinance. If he tells you something that is beyond what local ordinance requires you will have to go to the local board and argue your case, where if you cite local ordinance required you will win. Local ordinance can be more stringent than national code. It cannot be less than national code.
@@nooneyouknowhere6148 not true. a state is not required to adopt the NEC in its entirety. local codes can provide exceptions to NEC. case in point, in my state, it is acceptable to install a non GFCI protected single receptacle behind a refrigerator, washing machine, or other fixed appliance, if it is located in such a way that the appliance prevents ready access, and it is labeled as being not GFCI protected.
@@kenbrown2808 that used to be standard in the NEC.
I worked as a Sr. Electrical Design Engineer for a very large electrical contractor. Sometimes over 1000 electricians. I got calls often from electricians on jobs stating that they just failed an inspection. After drilling down to make sure what was done, and what the inspector said, there are a few methods to resolve it. First, call the inspector and request a written statement of the violation. Call the inspector and read the appropriate section of the adopted code and give your understanding of that section and “Why”. Get out your code book when told of the violation, and look it up with the inspector. If all else fails and there is a Chief Inspector, call them and discuss the install, the inspectors statement, the code section, and read your point to them. There are numerous situations that could be told, but would take too long. If you do your homework, and you are absolutely correct and have proof, you will win every time. Just “Make Sure” you are correct first!
Thank you, great information.
Glad you enjoyed it.. Thanks for watching!
MN Master Electrician Great video it's nice to see someone get it right. Keep sending out the great content
Thank you my friend.. Much appreciated.
John, I’m a retired teacher. It’s nice to listen to someone who knows what their talking about!
Thank you.. I spent my whole career in the electrical industry both as an electrican and an electrical engineer. I used to teach electrical safety and LOTO as part of my engineering responsibilities. I love teaching but it's not easy. I have a lot of respect for teacher. Now, I try to teach with youtube videos. lol
Our home was built in '95 and the builder ran ONE 15-amp, 14 gauge circuit to feed the outlets in all 3 bathrooms, the front outside outlet, the backyard outside outlet, AND the garage. I can't believe they ever got away with this...
The house I'm in is like that, too. There's only one GFCI, at the head of the circuit, of which the first receptacle is in the garage.
Either there is no code enforcement in your area or the inspector needs a refresher course. lol
when the house was built, they should have had an open walls inspection of wiring and plumbing to see what is run where unless that area has no inspections while building.@@WhiteG60
My house built in 85 is similar, all bathrooms and outside outlets all on one 15A circuit with a GFCI in one bathroom.
@@WhiteG60 It would depend on the inspector. Some are really good and others not so much. There are two electrical inspections. One after rough in but before the walls are closed and a finish inspection when everything is complete. I would assume if the electrician spread out his circuits like that you wouldn't have very many drops at the panel. A garage circuit needs to be a 20A dedicated circuit and a bathroom needs a 20A circuit at the sink. This like this should be easy for them to detect at rough inspection.
Thank you for dispelling some of the mis-information out there represented as "code" by many content creators on CZcams. I see all too often, and DIY'er just watching for guidance take it as gospel
I see it more in the comments on my videos but I’m sure there are creators that get it wrong as well. It’s not an easy book to navigate if you don’t have much experience.
Thankyou, John!
My pleasure.. Thanks for watching.
Finally a CZcamsr that knows what he is talking about.
This is why I always lookup the codes myself, to make sure that I am following code. On top of this I research local codes as they may have additional requirements.
Great plan my friend.
My personal favorite is people that call up their utility company because they measured their outlets and it was 119 volts ....and they want it to be 115.
And then I try to explain to them that "115 volts" just means an appliance can run on "50hz 110V" or "60hz 120V" and that the outlet is required to have an average voltage between 117 and 123 volts, so we aren't even allowed to set it to 115
*Edit
Before people hop in
It's a minimum of 114 for short periods of time (not the average) and 108 during brownouts.
95% of everything on the internet is complete BS, and 95% of the remainder is people attempting to scam you. This video is probably the only 100% honest thing I've seen in a month. Thank you, sir.
Excellent video, and I agree with all 5 points!
I do have one observation, but I don't have the NEC text:
Service loops - I'm assuming it states a 'maximum' of 12" for staple (secure)?
If for example you staple a 12" length of cable loop at 4" from the box, you would then have 8" of slack...
[you could have around 16" of slack if you stapled 18" at 2" from the box, if you wanted to be absurd]
(I don't like the loop illustrated, as it can twist and kink pulling it into the box; I like a flattened 'S', but then, I don't do new installs)
Mr K L
That's a great point.. Thanks for sharing.
Nice hat! Thanks for the information.
Any time! Go USAF 🇺🇸🇺🇸
You could make a whole series of videos on this topic! Like, how many receptacles per circuit in a dwelling unit. Many many grounding comments.
That's what I was thinking too. I want to see how this one does to see if there's enough interest. So far it's preforming quite well.
@@BackyardMaine If you need some more ideas, I can make a list as I think of them. Let me know
@@KevinCoop1 I have a pretty long list now but sure I'm always open to ideas from my viewers. Thanks Kevin.
The choice of 12 AWG or heavier wiring for outlets depends on specific use cases. Some years ago my friend acquired a window air conditioner that was plugged into a bedroom outlet at the opposite end of the house from the electrical panel, a Manhattan distance of well over 50 ft. The builder had cut costs and had wired most of the outlets in the residence with 14 AWG wire. The voltage drop was so severe that the air conditioner compressor would _barely_ start when cold, but would stall on a hot restart. The solution was to run a 12 AWG Romex cable from the breaker panel through the crawlspace to the rear of the house and tie it into the outlet circuit, effectively supplying it with a 10 AWG run, which practically eliminated the voltage sag from the air conditioner, hair dryers, clothes irons, etc.
Sounds like it was a considerable distance from the panel. Also the connection method used plays a role as well. I run a window unit on a 15A breaker with 14 gauge wire about 50 feet from the panel with no issues at all.
Nice video. Now do a video on the parts of the code that are unnecessary boiler plate that can be ignored without any compromise in safety or reliability. (I'm an electrical engineer, and I have met and worked with some of the IEEE guys who write the code, and I can tell you straight up that most of those guys have never touched a wire in their life. They are in their 60s and their useful life as engineers is over so they attend IEEE meetings and make up issues to "solve". )
I know what you mean. I was an electrician for over 20 years before moving into electrical engineering. There were some engineers that I knew that had no concept of the practical application of what they learned is school.
I understand the point that you are making but maybe you should rethink the way you are presenting it after acknowledging that the NEC and the Fire Code are 'written in blood '(as is said) and should be respected and followed. Just as unforseen conditions/ possibilities lead to tragedy and were afterwards backward engineered into Codes so we must humbly honor the Code admitting that we can't possibly know the genesis of every hard learned lesson built in to these codes. Yes, sometimes we see what looks like ill-advised new code or (worse) Manufacturer- influenced code but many times corrections are made in the next cycle. Despite misgivings I would definitely agree with on some things in the code, I think it wise to promote the NEC to other tradesman as a duty to abide by rather than anything less.
John, great video. A few comments though. You mentioned local codes. You're right. In LA city, pig tailing is required and 14AWG is no good. And, you are sometimes victim to snooty inspectors. The inspectors can require whatever they want. And, I should mention that the NEC is written by the NFPA, the National Fire Prevention Association. Great video
They can NOT require whatever they want. If they are “interpreting” something a certain way, sure, they can say they want something done that way. Buuut, An Inspector can't just come onto a site and start “requiring” things to be done the way they want it, all because they like it that way. There's a code for a reason. I have been involved in a couple different projects where the inspector was failing a 4-way inspection on one project and another inspector failed the C of O inspection on another project. Both times the Inspector was requiring a totally bogus way of doing things just because they thought it was “better”. When reasoning with the inspectors failed to work all while saying that their request was not written out in the IBC. We had to get the head Building official involved, which worked out in our favor both times. It probably goes without saying but, you don't win any friends by going this route. It comes down to picking your battles like always.
Yes for sure and thank you.. I have taught classes on the NFPA-70 and NFPA-70E..
@@savage6394individual cities absolutely can have their own electrical code that is stricter than the NEC. It's also how ALL residential wiring in Chicago and most of its suburbs is required to be in metal conduit.
Now, an inspector can't just make stuff up. But if the city's electrical code requires something, it's required, even if it's stricter than the NEC.
I'm looking at my copy of the 1981 NEC code on my bookshelf as I watch this.
My first code book was 1984. I think I still have it somewhere.
@@BackyardMaine1984 here too.
I’m a master electrician her in Maine. I agree 100%. Thanks. I hear the #12 thing all the time.
Where are you located? I think Ive heard of your company. I retired a few years back from Texas Instruments in South Portland. I was their facilities electrical engineer.
@@BackyardMaine newport. But nice worked all over there. Did a pizza place over near McCauley high school back in 06-7? And the Reebok store in Freeport years ago. Usually don’t go much past augusta
In a bedroom we used to flip the switched receptacle if one was in there so the owner would know but not required
Regarding number two, it may be people are misinterpreting what face up means. Since humans are programed to recognize faces, a duplex outlet looks like a face when the ground is down. So instead of reading face up to mean the outlet is mounted horizontally, they think face up means the face they see in the outlet is right side up. So by turning the outlet to ground up (or upside down, in this case), they see that as face down, which is not face up.
If I look at a 2 prong outlet, the neutral should be on the right. Extending that to a grounded outlet says the ground should be up. Just doesn't look like a face.
Leviton Tamper-Resistant Surge Outlet (T5280-W) installation instruction Step 7 reads: "Installation may now be completed by carefully positioning all wires to provide room in outlet box for receptacle. Mount the Surge Protective Receptacle in wall box, with the ground contact upwards, using the two long mounting screws supplied. Attach wallplate."
Look closely there appears to be a code violation over his shoulder. EMT run between termination points shall be securely fastened within (3 ft) of each outlet box, junction box, device box, cabinet, conduit body, or other tubing termination.
Nope the nipples are all less than 3 feet and don't need support. Good try but though..
Claim #1: I strongly prefer pigtails so the whole load does not pass through every receptacle. Also, I have replaced MANY toasted "push-ins" and should not be used!
Agreed..
I learned to wire my own house under the watchful eye of a 3rd generation electrician from Lewiston Maine. I hung boxes, drilled holes and pulled wires during the day and he came by after work to inspect, explain my mistakes and discuss the remedies. One of his hard rules was 12 awg to all electrical outlets because you never know what someone might plug in, in the future. Another was lighting and outlets on separate circuits, ALWAYS. A third rule was never use cheap devises or the push-in connections - always bend the wire to fit around the screws and in the correct direction. There were many, many other things he taught me that I’ll never forget and I’ve passed on to others but the thing he’d say every night after finishing the free beer I gave him for his time was “now you know enough to be dangerous”. No truer words ever spoken. 😂
Journeyman since 1983. Electrical Contractor in CA since 1988. I join you in being appalled and concerned about all the self-proclaimed electrical experts on YT. Thanks for the video.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
Most irritating inspection experience - city inspector says to me "I know its permitted by code, but I don't want to see it".
I approve of this Video, and I Approve of your hat Sir! Thank You for Your Service!
Thank you kindly.. 🇺🇸🇺🇸
@@BackyardMaine You're Welcome!
“Into The Wild Blue Yonder!” 1980-1986 USAF WX Recon
Many on here have commented that they "ask the inspector what he want's" I don't agree.
The way to get along with inspectors is to show them you are knowledgeable in the code. That way they respect you. If you ask them how to do the job.....that's not their job and it irritates most inspectors. They expect you to know the code.
Yes, there are some gray areas in the code and some things that are open to interpretation. I have run into all kinds of inspectors and in most cases, they are pretty good guys........but there is always the exception. When I have disagreed with an inspector and feel I am definitely right I will stand up to them. In two instances I have herd the old "not in my town" as if they own the town and told them "Ok let's take it to the State Board in Boston. In both cases they backed down.
Yeah, you don't want to irritate the inspector if you work in that town a lot but asking them what they want is not the way to go.
Another great video thank you
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.