Ted DiBiase on the Lack of Believability in Wrestling Today
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- čas přidán 24. 06. 2024
- 'The Million Dollar Man' Ted DiBiase looks back at his Hall of Fame career, from Mid-South, to Japan, to WCW, to WWF, and everywhere in-between! Join Ted and Marcus every Friday at 6am ET on all podcast platforms or if you want early access, get it commercial free on Premier+ with Premier Streaming Network!
I would extend the 'greatest' period until the late 90's. When WCW was on fire, it was really on fire.
But that was when wrestling became completely unrealistic and unbelievable thanks to the mexicans and their circus stunt antics and Warriors stupid trap door (or the mirror scene)
1998 was the last great year of professional wrestling. Ted was a beast.
Ted’s best opinion video. Believability is so key. Too much choreography ruins it. I love a great headlock to give the wrestlers a breather in an old school long match. Bearhug. Claw. When wrestlers sweat buckets every match working.
so, someone laying in the middle of the ring while his opponent does a 450 degree summersault onto him from the top rope is not believable?
Ted is absolutely right in his comments.The wrestlers from the past knew how to sell a story and bring the fans back for next weeks episode.They Di a terrific job of making the show believable.
Today's wresting is like choreography. Fancy moves but they don't make sense during a fight.
Yeah, just a bunch of skinny guys doing an acrobatic show. The key to great wrestling is great persons, characters, plots, good ring action, and great acting!
True but wrestling has been chipping away piece meal at believability for 75 years . Its now accelerated by the exposition of the business / death of kayfabe . I mean , Gorgeous George ? The Masked Marvel ? Thats showbiz . But now that people know so much about wrestling and that WWE is dependent on ratings more than attendance they feel no responsibility to be believable .
@@ArkOmen1💯
@@pooddescrewch8718 True, but then you still had people who could really work. I've seen some women's wrestling from the 1950s, those women could wrestle. The American women these days are generally awful. It's like slam poetry, a bunch of talentless hacks who think they have talent, only because the fans cheer for them, yet those fans have never read poetry from Kipling and the like. If you put some of today's women's wrestling on in front of an '80s crowd, they'd be booed out of the building. The men are usually just as bad.
Have to totally agree with Ted. His heel character was some damn fine acting. He made me hate him as a kid, which made it all the more satisfying as a kid to see the larger than life superhero Hulk Hogan beat him in the ring and fearful that the Hulkster could lose. Those guys really reeled you in.
Today, the wrestlers are big on moves, but their selling in the ring as well as their character acting is horrible. Not watchable for me. Would love to see a repeat of both the 80s to mid 90s era and the attitude/ruthless aggression eras of wrestling.
*This* is what fans these days who *didn't* watch the '80s and '90s stuff don't understand. I don't care for a bunch of gibbering idiots toting boxes of breakfast cereal. Where's the heat in that? I don't care for a wrestler pretending to be a silent movie star--where does the character go in a wrestling environment? Never mind the fact that Toni Storm is awful at playing the character. Why watch a man wrestle with his hands in his pockets? His gimmick is that he's lazy? Yet Orange Cassidy clearly goes to the gym, he's travelling from show to show to wrestle--if he were really lazy, he wouldn't turn up in the first place. Makes no sense, just stupid, heatless garbage.
Fans who *could* have been watching in the '80s and '90s, yet for some reason only became involved in wrestling within the last ten to 15 years or so, can't tell me anything. It's akin to someone who only watches CGI laden comic book movies telling you about the greatness of the latest Marvel flick, telling you it's the best movie ever, it could never be topped by anything, past or future, then you discover that the person has never seen LAWRENCE OF ARABIA or SEVEN SAMURAI.
Yes, wrestling had questionable things in the old days, yet you could suspend a certain amount of disbelief and enjoy the match. What's more, it wasn't full of botches. People can knock Hulk Hogan all they want, yet I never, ever saw him botch in the ring. He didn't botch and drew a ridiculous amount of money. Now you have AEW and WWE with a bunch of wrestlers who don't draw and botch all over the place. It's not subjective, it's objective. A wrestler who draws money and doesn't botch is more valuable than a wrestler who is a major liability and doesn't have drawing power when separated from the company. Hogan drew no matter where he was in his prime: AWA, NJPW, WWF, WCW, it didn't matter.
Now take Kenny Omega out of AEW, stick him with a bunch of indy wrestlers, see if he still draws 10,000 people. I saw Omega in Australia on a NJPW show, crowd was under 2,000 with *many* seats to spare. Hogan in his prime could've filled the same venue three nights in a row.
Flair always went for the wrong leg to weaken it for his Figure Four.
Totally destroyed the illusion for me.
Me and my dad always loved watching wrestling together, my dad died in 1998 and wrestling kinda died with him at that point, I miss classic wrestling and I sure miss dad❤
The old schoolers working many house shows in different territories taught them how to work the crowd. I get the impression these new guys don’t have that same background and experience.
I can watch the old matches and believe they are legit even after seeing interviews with the wrestlers talking about the work in that particular match.
The absolute WORRRRRRRRST modern day spot is when a wrestler climbs to the top rope, the other wrestler gets up and starts running toward them and then the guy on the top rope just jumps over the other guy and rolls out. It kills aboit a minute and a half of the match and the tv time and it doesn't do anything for either wrestler.
The whole "bowling pin" spot with a wrestler jumping onto ten guys awkwardly standing around waiting to catch him is a pretty bad one.
"Running the ropes" is also stupid and they were doing that during Ted's time too.
@@BlitzkriegBryce I agree, I can't stand that one. Back in the old days, you had wrestlers like Davey Boy Smith and Bill Goldberg who could catch a flying wrestler like a piece of paper, then slam him to the mat. Now wrestling wants me to believe that one man can knock down four men? Additionally, the man doing the flying is usually a cruiserweight. I have a tough time believing that he'd take out four or more men. Why doesn't any one of the four, five, or ten wrestlers move? It's ridiculous.
It's still bad when it's just one man standing there, waiting forever for the opposing wrestling to scale the ropes and jump. It's painful to watch. What does the defending wrestling *think* is going to happen when he's looking *right at* his opponent climbing the ropes? It's okay if the defending wrestler looks up at the last split second, but that's usually not what happens.
@@markv1274 I appreciate Samoa Joe's "nope" (walking away) move. Makes perfect sense, if someone looks like they're going to jump at you then just move away.
Worst spot is the one where there is multiple people in a cage or hell in a cell match and 2 people try to intercept a guy going to the top rope and they are on the 2nd rope looking to do a super plex then someone else comes under them to give them a powerbomb. Convoluted and ridiculous. This is an even worse example of what I'm talking about.
czcams.com/video/7TahXxfbrew/video.html
Will Ospreay doesn't sell at all. Can't stand that about him. He learns to sell, he'd be alright. Kevin Owens, Matt and Nick Jackson don't sell enough either.
If Will Ospreay was trying out of the UK's Olympic gymnastics team, that'd be one thing. But all he can do is flippy moves that look stupid and fake in wrestling.
I agree Ted
Ted just explained why I don't watch pro wrestling anymore. He's from an era when a suplex was a finisher. True, you are playing to a large audience, like a theater production, and large and exaggerated movements are part of the audience following the story. But modern pro wrestling is way too over the top. In Ted's era, a believable match that told a good story did things like save the one high spot for the end.
the worst thing the attitude era did was make "build-up" more important than "wrestling";
we didn't see it at the time, but that was the end.
Ted is totally right.
I remember when they would take months at time to build up a good story Now they try to do it within a week or two, just to push the next PPV. Having PPVs ever month is part of the problem of rushed stories IMO.
Modern wrestling is more like an acrobatic show than anything vaguely believable. It doesn't have as good of storytelling and colorful promos either and is more politically correct.
I guess the new generation of kids like it but when I try to watch it I just can't get into it. I took my nephew to a Monday Night Raw last fall and I wasn't digging it. Must be a generational thing.
The old school guys mostly looked like tough guy bar brawlers and it just felt much more real to me.
I would laugh my a$$ off if someone chose not to catch a guy or take a bump from "Cartwheel X move".
After you've seen Bruiser Brody mopped the Floor with a Jobber you became a believer.Lol...😂😂😂
Legit!
It’s referred to as working them over am I right?
All the crap Hogan got,he sold well to mid carders,which made his come back wins enjoyable! Then if he didn’t win(rare),it was shocking!
I agree with Ted
Obviously, professional wrestling and sports entertainment are very different but both require athletic ability and take a toll on your body.
Wrestling and sports entertainment are not the same thing. What we see on TV today is the latter.
really? why did edge jump off the cage then and mess his leg up?
@@nicotoscani1707 I don't know, ask him.
Never was. Sports entertainment in it's early years was TNT, the Slammys, the Wrestling Album.
Wrong. Wrestling has been Sports Entertainment ever since Toots Mondt modernized Wrestling, made it scripted and put a emphasis on showmanship and big moves in the 1920's. The term Sports Entertainment was created a few years later by Jack Pfefer.
Or what do you think gimmick wrestlers and their antics like Gorgeous George, The French Angel, Adrian Street or all those Nazis after WW2 were? Serious Pro Wrestling? 🤣
I gave up on watching the big league wrestling a long time ago. I find some indie shows, in the Edmonton area, have the old school mentality and work on good storytelling.
Everything evolves in time...Look at movies , example John Wick. Old time wrestling would be boring for most fans.
Great idea about sew
It looks like they hurt themselves with the moves today more than they hurt their opponents. Especially in AEW.
Sometimes, a wrestler will hit a move, and I can't tell which wrestler was meant to be hurt by it.
this deangelo is everywhere .. he does jake, hacksaw too... who else is he doing podcasts for?
More to come! Announcements within the next month or so
I think his brother handles RVD too.
@@EverybodysGotAPod you are collecting these wrestlers like i used to collect wrestler action figures.. when is enough enough?
The biggest problem with the "lack of believability" is that the WWE, AEW, NWA and most of the independents treat wrestling like it's a show instead of a sport. Watch some of the matches from Josh Barnett's Bloodsport events where they're not doing all the stupid pro-wrestling tropes and they treat as if it is real. It let's you forget that it's fake for a minute and you can get in to those matches.
Well, I'll say one thing for Josh Barnett's promotion:
Nobody's going to be running the ropes.
What, no one here stands around and waits to be hit in a real fight?
Some of whats wrong with wrestling got its foothold in the business during my era of wrestling ( 80s ) but it was special not the norm .
Even in the 50's and 60's, they were doing some stupid fake crap too.
No. now wwe is strictly corporate i give it 10 years. Vince was what made it last as long
Dude in the top right screen shot looks like he just threw a bowling ball down a lane.
Look at Leaner almost breaking his neck in a match against Angle wrestlemania 23 I think
*19
I agree with Ted. Watch LA Knight. He is just not believable. Ted was always believable in the ring.
Ted wasn't really "believable" either. If you tried to do what Ted did in his matches, in a real fight or in a real wrestling match, you'd lose every single time.
@@jd9119 It was still in the realm of "wrestling believability." Take a look at British wrestling from the '70s and '80s, often just the right amount of showmanship with good, solid wrestling.
@@markv1274 "wrestling believability" is a load of garbage. It's either believable or it isn't.
Do a shooting star prepress
i'm kind of old school now.. mid 50's thru the end of the 80's... without hogan and flair... i don't like cartoon wrestlers
I watch the old stuff and gripe about the lack of believability. Such as all the stupid ref bumps. The refs looked like complete idiots getting in the way where they were bound to get nailed.
The believability is worse than ever in the last 25 years or so. I gave up watching.
That's what I've heard from people who don't watch wrestling, the ref bumps. If I were running a wrestling show, I'd find out what non-fans don't like, take out as much of that stuff as possible, then maybe I'd expand my viewership.
I've watched 1970s British wrestling, and I haven't seen a ref bump. British wrestling was wildly popular for many years, the promoters treated fans with respect.
Wrestling was awesome until the late 80s. It began to crumble as Vince put the territories out of business. By the early 90s, it was over.
Ted is 100% right! Today's wrestling especially WWE is a joke. They're not wrestlers, they're laughable amateur stuntmen.
Willy O is NOT the best wrestler and it's not even close. The guy might be a great stuntman or a great trampoline monkey but it takes a lot more than that to be a great WRESTLER.
Today it a stunt show it’s sad
But an I wish whip is totally believable
I'm not a fan of the Irish whip, yet there is stuff far, far less believable in wrestling these days. Additionally, most of the characters these days suck.
Believability was more important when Kayfabe was still a thing.
If you watch action movies from decades ago, it was mostly just guys punching each other back and forth. As time progresses, the action choreography becomes more elaborate, stunts become bigger, etc.
But there is still plenty of “fake” looking stuff in the 80s and 90s that Ted is saying people tell him was the last great era. Even JR mentions the 10 punches in the corner spot. And certainly in WWF a lot of the characters were pushing the boundaries of credulity.
It mall makes sense when you realize that it's not 'wrestling' anymore, it's "wrestling entertainment, sports entertainment". Once you keep that in mind..... Kayfabe is dead, kayfabe was the lifeblood of professional wrestling. Those days are gone, unfortunately.
If only they were allowed to improvise when the spot doesn't line up. No matter what they stick to the script. And even if the person has to jump up on the others shoulders for a powerbomb spot when the one standing aint ready, they still jump for the bump and it sucks. Or when there knocked down but "slide" into position for the jump thats incoming. Lol it's so fake these days.
potato goblin says the idea of ted wasting his time watching aew is stupid. aew is bad and of course the podcaster is a fan of it
Gen Z and Millennial wrestlers are all mundane and cookie cutter just their peers in other professions.
Kayfabe is DEAD. Even with WWE in Netflix and no restrictions. Still, not gonna be interested. 90’s to 2005 was the sweet spot.
Wrestling is more popular today, with all this big stage and big stadium stuff. but it suckz, but the reason is, that wrestling is dont holds to the time. the golden era is over 80s/90s. Wrestling showed everything already. there is nothing new and the new guys cannot hold up to the larger then life characters. Taker, Hogan, MDM, Hitman, Warrior, Rody, Perfect, Macho.
Wrestling is at its lowest point ever, commercially speaking. WWE essentially has a monopoly in the Anglosphere of wrestling. AEW is terribly far behind, it would be ludicrous to compare said company's viewership to that of WWE.
WWE still has the big stadium shows, but so what? Country and western singers have big stadium shows, yet ask Joe Blow to name ten country singers under the age of 30. It's a niche.
NWA, AWA, UWF, World Class and WCW went out of business, a lot of those fans stopped watching, and some focused on WWE. What I'm saying is that WWE might have big shows of 30,000 or more, yet even in the old days, they did that. The difference is that in addition to big shows put on by the WWF (as it was then know), you had World Class capable of drawing 30,000, Crockett could draw 20,000, and the AWA could draw 10,000. Mid South-UWF, too, could draw 20,000 at times. You had several huge promotions. Now you just have WWE, with AEW a distant second.
The fans do not care about believability . They were educated not to care about that . They are from different backgrounds too …when I was a kid most wrestling fans were heavy sports fans . Now they are video gamers , sci fi afficionados and comic book readers … most of whom have never competed nor have ever been in a scrape . So they want nonsense . Its fine by them .
There are also very few fans today compared to the past. What you have left are the niche audience that likes idiotic video game wrestling and stupid fake crap. People that cared about a believable product or a good story either are watching movies or moved on to UFC.
To be fair Ted … running the ropes was not very believable either . If you hit those ropes there will be pushback but not enough to send you all the way back to where you started totally against your will . I always thought it was bullsquat
Hell son don’t watch it then
Yeah, there are a ton of stupid wrestling tropes that looked fake back then too. Hell, their working punches, kicks and even vertical suplexes looked fake then too.
In fact, it should be illegal to throw punches in wrestling. That way you don't really get into situations where they're throwing fake punches in the first place.
@@jd9119 I agree with you about not having the wrestlers throw punches. The punches are in fact meant to be illegal, yet I have *never* seen a wrestler disqualified for it.
In the old British wrestling, a punch was a public warning (foul). The rules of wrestling actually meant something to them.
@@markv1274 I remember see this match from the 1950's. I think it was a Thesz vs Schmidt. Anyways Schmidt had Thesz in a hold and while the ref was checking to see if the hold was legal and not a choke, Schmidt punched Thesz in the midsection outside of the refs view.
By making punches illegal, they made it an opportunity for the heel to cheat.
Modern wrestling sucks.
Nobody gives a shit if it looks real, it’s pretend fighting. If you want to see real fights , watch the UFC
wrestling today is more beleivable than it was back then.. in AEW and TNA at least.. cos they are actually trying to k1l each other in the ring.. even edge is trying to do himself in
I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you. Wrestling has never been less believable than what you see in AEW and similar promotions.
@@markv1274 youve not seen the will ospreay matches then?
So, you are saying wrestling doesn’t look believable today, but screen shot Will Ospreay, a guy that risks his body. I’ve been watching wrestling since the 80’s, I’ve watched the Million Dollar Man work, the 80’s and 90’s(minus ECW) was the fakest wrestling in history. It was a live action cartoon show. Hulk Hogan literally did the fisheyes Bull, then Hulked up. These veterans wouldn’t last a minute in today’s wrestling, especially in AEW, maybe the WWE, they are still soft in the ring. But the reason I brought up AEW is because of the screen shot.