Setting a 6-screw tremolo to float: a simple, consistent method *read description for step-by-step
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- čas přidán 21. 10. 2020
- Italian luthier Galeazzo Frudua demonstrates this method on his CZcams videos (he's also a great musician and expert in Beatles vocal harmonies) and I've been using this elegant method ever since. Along the way I discovered an overlooked component not dealt with by his method - control of the action increase that the method introduces - and added a 'fix' to his method as shown/discussed in the video and listed below. The great thing about this method is that it is consistently repeatable and gives guaranteed results every time. If you get the nut slots right (cut to the right depth and free-flowing / no friction) and your strings are fully stretched out then there's no reason that a floating 6 screw tremolo won't work perfectly even on the cheapest of guitars.
Here are the steps. FYI I didn't do the 1st 4 bullet points on the list because my tremolo plate was already level with the body. Additionally, the action I started with was very low because I've already fret-levelled this guitar. You may not have done that with yours in which case, it can be set at the optimum playing action that the guitar will allow as YOUR starting point.
Frudua+ tremolo setting method
The way the screws are set in the front of the tremolo plate is critical to smooth operation of a 6 screw bridge in floating mode. They must NOT be screwed in tight because that will remove the freedom of movement the front of the plate requires. Follow these instructions to ensure the plate has room to move:
• Raise the 4 inner screws to 2mm above the baseplate (out of the way)
• Raise the 2 outer screws until there's no less than 0.5mm space between the front of the plate (the tip of the plate bevel) and the guitar top
.
• Screw in the 4 inner screws to the same level as the 2 outer ones
[My addition to Frudua's method to control the action height change during this setup]
• Set the playing action to your ideal height (as low as your frets will allow)
• Then reduce EACH string's height as measured at the last fret by 0.5mm (= one half turn on each of the saddle grub screws). Ignore whether this causes strings to buzz or choke; setting the tremolo will raise the action again by the same 0.5mm.
• Tighten tremolo claw bolts until the rear of the bridge plate touches the guitar top
• Get a 6mm block of Post-it notes
• Put the tremolo arm in and push forward and fit in the amount of Post-its needed to hold the plate horizontal i.e. parallel to the guitar body
(if required, ignore if not)
• Tune the G string to pitch
• Remove the Post-it pad
• Depress the arm until the G string detunes to E and place in enough Post-it notes to hold the tuning precisely at E
• With the Post-it note still in place, tune all strings to standard pitch
• Remove Post-it notes
(the notes will all go sharp as the springs pull the tremolo plate back to the body)
• Unscrew the 2 tremolo claw screws
in the back of the guitar until the G string is showing 'G' on the tuner
In writing this looks more complicated than it is, and it will become 2nd nature if you do it often enough. - Jak na to + styl
Thanks for adding the steps to the video description.
Excellent run through, worked perfectly, thank you!!!
Hi Sam, Thanks for this! I know you had a previous video of this sometime ago.
I had recently done a fret level and polish on my Strat and have been meaning to perform this to reset my trem. Perfect timing!
Synchronicity :-) And I was meaning to do it on that 'Donorcaster' anyway.
Amazing. The ending with action compensation answered all my questions
Nice addition. Will come in handy when I get to that part of my Cheapocaster build.
Excellent tutorial! Finally a *precise* method!!!
Thanks - and thanks to Galeazzo Frudua for showing the way. My contribution was to add the advice about lowering the action by 0.5mm before setting the tremolo up to fully float.
Excellent method. I have done it this way since I saw Frudua's video years ago.
Great to meet another convert :-)
Nice one Sam! Okay, that's on the list.
Disregard , my last comment . I redid that Frudua method , but dropped the strings down until they buzzed .I returned to your setup and all is now Happy !!! Thank You
Well done Sam, works every time for me too mate
This is it guys. Worked amazingly well for me.
Very nice method. Thank you so much.
Thankyou for Amazing Knowledge,Sir.
Brilliant. Thanks for sharing. l never thought about adjusting the tremolo to pitch- I've always done a mechanical set up. Your method is more complex, but gives much better results in playability. Definitely going to be doing it this way from now on.
Thanks for the comment! As mentioned, praise goes to Galeazzo Frudua for the method - I've just explained it / shown it (and added a small but important detail to improve it) :) Glad it was useful.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars indeed. I have 6 guitars with tremolo that I need to get set up correctly. I did one last night and the Frudua method with your .5 mil action compensation was "da bomb"- or in other words, it can now properly dive-bomb without sounding like a strangled cat.
Great Videos- I really enjoy watching you work. I wonder what you think about just leaving the post it notes under the bridge and setting everything up then gradually reducing the spring tension to the point when you can just slide them free. I’ve found you can just catch the point before there is any real change in the height of the bridge so ant subsequent adjustments are minimal if at all. I know everyone does things differently and your way works and as you say written down it looks more complicated than it is.
Thanks for shareing Sam =) cheers
You're welcome, glad it was helpful
Excellent video subscribed😀
Late reply - but thank you, appreciate it.
The setup for a 2 point vs 6 screw is identical except for one thing, setting up the baseplate. The baseplate setup consists of setting the six screws ( 2 parts, outer 2 and inner 4) to the correct height. I didn’t see you address the mounting screws, you can have a perfect setup but if the screws are to low it will bind and feel awful, loosen correctly then suddenly it feels smooth and moves freely.
Yes you're right - on the 6 screw if any of the screws even touches the plate you're at risk of restricting it. I screw in until they touch (and start moving the plate) and then back off a full 180-350º. You could go even further back to be sure and the tremolo will still work as long as the trem holes are touching the un-threaded part of the screw.
I think Im gonna try that on my next built. Do you think I could squeeze out an even greater range than 3 semitones out of a 6 point trem ? Or will the angle of the baseplate be a problem hmm
Best video on the internet
Oh… I don’t know… I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe…I’ve seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion…(etc)
If,I've already set up my action using the Frudia Method with the card taped over the fret board , should I begin again ? I gotta say, it's nice !
Any recommendations ? By the way , I've just ordered a string height gauge .
But , I'm not sure where you are measuring your fret 12th?
hai..can i use this method on ibamez gio grg40?
Interesting. Thanks
I read somewhere that the intent of the original design was for it to be flat on the deck. Others; like genius Jeff Beck have it set up floating and use it to the fullest. Interesting video; thank you.
That might be the case Ricardo... I'm not entirely certain. I also don't know whether the Bigsby pre-dates the Fender 6 screw. If it did, then it could be said that the 'norm' was for pitch bend in both directions and it would be likely that Fender wanted his to do up and down as well. But who knows... the patent *might* reveal the facts.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I believe the Bigsby was the earliest unit...😉
Would it make more sense to reset the action at the point when the post-it notes are in place ? As then you would be going from higher action (assuming your trem was decked to begin with) back down to desired normal action, at the actual floating angle. Rather than doing it earlier, and going from previously normal action to a somewhat arbitrary 0.5mm lower action, which is then less likely to end up "right" by the end.
Might be... it's hard to even imagine it lol but you could be right. I find the 0.5mm or 180º works for me!
Thanks Sam. When I set my trem I did exactly what you discussed, leaving the action adjustment to the end and repeating. My remaining issue is how to efficiently replace strings whilst retaining the setup. Clearly as i tension any string or try to remove slack and tune to pitch all others go out of tune. Results in repeatedly tuning all. I'm probably being a bit stupid.
Hi Glenn. Once you've set it up this way, when you come to re-string it, assuming you use the same gauge of strings it will go back into equilibrium where it was before. You need to use a tuner and tune up, 1 string at a time (low E, A, D, G, B and e) and then go back to low E, A etc etc until it stabilises at equilibrium. The Frudua method is a neat way to dictate where the plate will sit when the guitar is in equilibrium (a balance between the pull of the strings and the pull of the springs) and therefore to dictate how much or little pitch shift there is when yanking back on the arm.
Have faith; providing you use same strings and tune string by string using the tuner it will reach equilibrium with the plate positioned where it was before you changed the strings.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars cheers Sam. Sure I get there in the end and the action and trem height returns. Just a tiresome process. I now replace 1 string, stretch, tune at a time. Then go through all at the end. Finally checking action and trem.
When you do this setup, the part with the post-its. put a mark on the uppermost post-it you put under the bridge. Then when changing strings, you can put the exact same amount of post-its under the bridge again. This way, removing a string won't pull the others out of tune. Then you can just keep 'em there til you've replaced, stretched and tuned up your new strings. Should make the whole process a bit easier.
Beck and Henderson realistically set up and use a floating tremolo, this is why someone would set up a floating tremolo so let's spec it that way.
He did actually mention about dropping the saddle heights. It’s the part in his video where he’s talking about reducing the friction points of the tremolo, one of which is reducing the string break angle behind the saddle.
You didn’t include the part of his video where he adjusts the bridge mounting screws to create a pseudo 2-point tremolo. Part of that is he is lifting up the bridge base plate and compensated for the rise by dropping the saddle heights to maintain the action from before.
I was looking for videos that did his method to troubleshoot my own attempt at it on my EJ Strat, but you skipped the step that I was trying to proof. Not trying to critique your video but your statement caught my attention and that was why your approach to setting the action is different than his video.
Trying to set up the new Kramer Focus VT 211S Tremolo which seems to be like a Squire.
Hi Jon - yes, very similar. The same basic rules apply.
Great video!!Do you set the intonation first (with the bridge flat) or after the trem is set to float? technically in both scenarios you have the same string height but just wondering if you had tested this as changing the position of the saddle could potentially "ruin" the balance of strings/springs
Hi Mark - good question. The only answer I can give you is that I've done it both ways :-D On this guitar the intonation was already set with the tremolo locked down and I've not checked it since making this video last night but I wouldn't expect it to be any different. I'd say 'do it before' if I were you (and check it after setting the float for your own curiosity). Just like dialling the grub screws changes the tension, so too does pulling the saddle back / forth... probably less than adjusting the grub screws but maybe enough to change the trem plate setting.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars The general order of set up I have gotten from my research suggests the intonation is done last or one of the last set ups but before the tremolo setup . Btw very nice video the sound could have been a bit louder but it's not a critic at all just my view . Regardless now being 2 years on wards from what you wrote above are you still of the opinion to do the intonation before the tremolo set up because with after setting up the tremolo can one get in to the vicious circle or cycle of tweaking one thing and this results in another thing being changed that you didn't want changed in other words will doing the intonation after the trem set up mess your settings up again . Also how far inwards do the claw screws go into the wood ie how far out should the claw plate be away from the edge of the wood the screws are screwed in to at the start of the setup ....as a rough guide I focus on this part for reassurance as it a part i'm not comfortable with . .
Hi Sam, super you tube channel! This video really helped me out with my strat tremelo setup in floating mode. I had new strings, gave them a good stretch and play-ib and followed your video for floating trem. Bang on, brilliant, works 👍. Have to keep a bit of check on the tuning after as after a bit of trem use.. strings go out of tune.. some YTs say need to "train the trem" to be back on tune.. but myself personally think locking tuners will be a better upgrade.. any thoughts?
Once set up, this handles the rest: czcams.com/video/O0Oyc6slYRc/video.html
When you float a 6 screw trem, do you tighten them all the way down or loosen them to allow a gap for the plate to shift?
Allow them a gap. I tighten until I feel the plate start to pull down, then I back off a couple of turns.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars thank you so much for the reply!
Just watched Signore Frudua, immediately before coming here. Both very helpful although (and with no disrespect to the excellent Italian!) Sam's slightly slow delivery has been easy to follow in what is quite a complex procedure... I'm in the middle of a George Harrison "rocky" look-a-like and the prospect of fitting the trem. bridge has been filling me with dread. Thanks, guys !!
You’re welcome - I think Frudua is wonderful and on top of that he’s a Beatles singer / performer par excellence. I sometimes hear myself saying “skeewdriver” in his accent :D
"Sam's slightly slow delivery...." a great back-handed compliment I only just noticed LOL
People with Floyd Rose floating bridges will probably recognize this process because it's not substantially different than what you'd do to get a flat-sitting Floyd Rose.
Hi Sam.. I realise I'm a bit late to the party but ...at what point do you think is best to tackle intonation. I'm assuming any tilt on the trem plate actually throws the intonation out.
Difficult question to answer. Intonation is strictly a distance thing (and we use sound / harmonics to measure that distance rather than a ruler). You have to ask yourself 'how much distance more or less is there between the apex of the saddle and the front edge of the nut?'. The answer will be 'a tiny amount' maybe less than 1/10mm? Yes that will have a similarly tiny impact on the intonation but I'm not sure you'd hear it.
Man all this action talk measurements etc I see what you mean but im gonn still struggle to do this
And now we understand why the finely tuned ear of a musician eventually guides them to smash a Fender Strat into a stage until it's neck is severed from it's body.
Usually... but it will float perfectly well AND stay in tune if you get the nut right... and the tremolo rout right...and the tremolo screws are the exact right size for the holes...and the screws are exactly the right amount screwed in... and... and...
You could also just tune back up to say g# . That way when you lower the action back you're at a g.
Lol once you've figured it out one way it gets difficult to even visualise other suggestions! You could be right - but it's too far off my safe, well-trodden little path for me to go there! :)
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars Yup i know the feeling lol. Cheers!
Dang, such a good instructional. But why specifically setting the G to an E? Why that much? Why not just to F?
Only because E sets the 'up bend' range to a tone a tone and a half on the G (which also represents 1 tone on the B string and a semi-tone on the high E string). If you set it to F you'd find that your up bend range would be limited to 1/2 tone on the G, less on the B and even less on the high E!
... or you could just set the action and intonation after putting the post-its under the bridge, before you loosen the claw springs.
That's one of those things I find hard to visualise without trying it out Daniel - but useful suggestion and on my next Strat style trem I'll try to remember to give it a go! Thanks
Sir I Was Having A Problem With My Jackson Dink Js32.While Changing The Strings I Forgot To Unlock The Pins And Take The Strings And First And Now The Floyd Rose Is Bent Down.What Can I Do? Could You Help Me Out A Bit Please?
Greetings Dear Leader. I can't understand the sequence of events you're talking about - sorry. Maybe you could try again to tell me?
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I am sorry I was in a hurry so i didnt write it properly.So actually I snapped my high e string on my jackson js 32 which has a floating floyd rose.As you told to take out the strings first and to unlock the locking nut then the pins on the floyd rose a string at a time.I forgot to do that and now my floyd rose is bent down on the guitar body like this \ .How can i adjust the tension to get it back into it position??
Brilliant - trust a Brit! (I say that affectionately)
Well, naturally dear chap :-)
Does the tightness of the 6 screws matter?
Yes. Tighten each one until you feel the bridge plate start to tilt forwards on its bevel (at the front edge) - then undo it at least 180 degrees of a turn. If any of the 6 screws is pressing against the plate and causing it to tilt forwards at the front (upwards at the back) then it will upset the the 'return to pitch' point. All that matters for these screws is that their un-threaded shiny part is in the right position to act as the pivot point for the bridge plate. That could be 2 or 3 turns OUT from the point where it pulls the plate forward and down... or even more. The further out it goes obviously it will look 'ragged' and eventually may not be gripping the wood firmly - but I suspect that the chromed un-threaded area will be too high to act as a pivot face by that point anyway.
I lost quite some sustain when I set the trem to float. I did put it back to flat and the sustain is back. So I guess I prefer flat for the increased sustain.
depends on guitar and its parts!!
You didn't adjust the screws before floating the trem, like Frudua does.
Milan I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to. I adjust the screws once I've set the desired action BEFORE floating the trem - because floating the trem raises the action by approx 0.5mm. You can't set the action, float the trem (and lose the action) and then try to lower it with the saddles because that completely changes the tension and messes up the equilibrium. Seemed to me much simpler to set the target action, then lower the action by 0.5mm (180º on each grub screw) in preparation for the action rise - and then do the floating. Action then rises 0.5mm and we're back at the target action WITH floating tremolo.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I was referring to the screws on the tremolo base plate.
@@milankotevski1663 Ok I get what you mean. You don't need to - all that you need to be sure of is that they are all backed off a turn or more from being tight. Do them up until you feel them start to pull down the front of the plate, then slack off a whole turn. I do this as routine so don't need a separate step. The point is that the tremolo will work well even if each screw is backed out 2 or 3 or more turns (so long as the plate still pivots on the unthreaded part of the screw). The only important thing to know is that IF any screw is touching the plate and / or starting to pull it forward then the tremolo won't work properly.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars Ok, thanks.
Don't float that tremolo if you play blues and/or bend strings. If you have an open string ringing and you bend another string the open string's pitch will drop (out of tune). Adjust the claw with just enough tension in the springs to sit the bridge against the body.
That's right - but some players no doubt play WITH it floating and control the open strings as they use it. It's down to preference. In fact, when delving a bit deeper with a customer I rarely find that down-only tremolo use (far less floating tremolo use) is an integral part of their playing. For this reason, I set the majority of customer tremolos to 'down-only' so that with the arm off the plate stays still - even with big bends.
I don't like frudas method of keeping it in tune by diving the bar after bends.
Interesting - I wasn't aware of that aspect. I'll check back with his videos to see if he's added it. I know in practice that this works on some tremolos that don't return to pitch but it's a 'work-around' not a technical solution.
What a complicated procedure. 60+ years of setting up Strats and I would not use your method.. .
And?
Excellent instruction, worked great! I'm curious to know if this same procedure would work on a floyd rose.
Hi... the process is kind of similar. The way I do it is the following:
1. Fit new strings
2. Dial out micro-tuners until they're a turn or two from fully 'out'
3. Screw tremolo claw springs most of the way in
4. Prop the FR with a cork / softwood wedge so that the base is level & parallel to the body
5. Tune to pitch (using an inline-style tuner, not a clip-on)
6. Fully (repeatedly) stretch and tune the strings until the tuning is stable
7. When the tuning is stable, tune all strings to pitch
8. Remove wedge; tremolo plate will pull back into recess and pitch will go very sharp
9. Prop guitar on its edge and unscrew the tremolo claw screws until the bridge returns to level / parallel with the body. I do this by pitch i.e. I unscrew until the G string becomes 'G' again according to my tuner. This will also be when the bridge is level.
10. Lock off the nut caps
11. Fine tune all strings with the micro tuners