What a great video, and that's coming from a guy who uses independent volume controls (FWIW). It always goes back to how the player uses the instrument and under what conditions. Thank you for your work.
I would love to see the schematics of what you refer to as master versus independent volume circuits to better understand what you are demonstrating. Great video.
Without a doubt your series of videos have helped me the most from all the other videos that I've seen on CZcams or anywhere else for that matter, so thank you for taking the time to do this and please don't let it be the last.
Today, I used this video to diagnose a problem with a second-hand guitar I purchased that had a peculiarly muddy tone as the neck volume pot was rolled down. I went from thinking it may be the value fo the capacitor, to thinking it was a modern vs 50s wiring distinction, to finally using the information in this video along with another wiring diagram of independent volume arrangement to determine that it was wired as independent causing the particularly muddy volume roll off. Thank you
All your videos have been tremendously useful & well scripted. You are very good at balancing engineering explanations to real-world uses for guitar players - well done!!
Very informative series, indeed. On my monitor, the spec analyzer waveform is almost invisible. Dark orange wave on dark gray background. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who would enjoy seeing details about your test box. Thanks - Lumpy
This series is the best i ever seen on the topic of pots wiring. It’s better to see instant switching and freq response graph once than read it endless times on forums.
I was all excited about putting 50s wiring, bumble bees and lollars in my new Les Paul, but after watching your videos back to back, I'm thinking of learning the triangle!
Right now, this video and the previous one are helping me figuring out my wiring choices for my next guitar pickups change and full re-wire. I thought about independent volumes. I had not heard of 50's wiring. Now I am quite clear about what will be best for me, or at least what to expect when choosing an option. Going for master + 50's. Thanks for this quality content with accurate trials and comprehensive explanations, this saved me a lot of time and taught me more than I would have thought. Cheers!
Maybe its my hearing ..but I can't tell the differences. I like the over all blending the independent volume does. The LP wiring has a master volume behaviour I don't like.
THANK YOU so much! This is the only video I could find that actually explained the changes associated with independent wiring. And I love that you did it with a spectrum analyzer! After watching your videos I decided to keep the master volume control on my new Les Paul rather than modding it to independent. However, I still am going to make the change to output loading for my tone circuits. That's perfect for my play style.
Awesome series of videos!. Thank you very much. It would be really interesting to see, how independent controls work together with '50s tone wiring!. Maybe, one balances the other...
Hello David, did you design and build your tester? or got it from a specialized shop? it is quite handy to make lots of testings without the mess to solder and unsolder into the guitar's electronic compartment.
I'm learning to rewire guitars, and experiment with my own so I really do appreciate your videos and your going through the time and trouble of doing them. These are the best technical guitar wiring videos that I've found. I would love to have one of those "magic boxes". I imagine that one was custom made for that purpose. Once again thanks. ;{)
So with independent wiring, if the load on the pickup is changing because the other pot is effectively out of the circuit, can the treble attenuation be mitigated, at least partially, by using a higher volume pot value, say a 1meg instead of a 500k? Obviously this would also change the treble response when using both pickups together (middle position).
I want to build a controls box like this myself, to explore the different possibilities for individual guitars and their pickups. I'd like to have a version that takes in cables from the individual pickups, to be able to experiment with that (i.e. pickup combinations, phasing, parallel/series) in the box as well. I'm thinking that as long as I have shielded cables going from the guitar's pickups, I should be right? My box wouldn't be as nice as this, e.g. I'd have to have individual tone pot knobs on the panel, (in addition to the switch that selects between them). But if the box is shielded, there shouldn't be any problem with all the extra switching picking up more EMI, do you think?
In most environments you shouldn’t have to worry about noise too much, but capacitance is something g to be aware of. As you add wires and components and shielded enclosures to a circuit, you will inevitably add some amount of capacitance, which can alter the high end response. If I recall correctly (it’s been a few years since I made this), I think this box added about 450 picofarads to the circuit, which is roughly the equivalent of what an average quality 15’ cable (conquest, or similar) would add. So in testing I used 5’ in and 5’ out Elixer cables, which measured at an impressively low 10pf per foot, giving me a total capacitance approximate to a typical 20’ cable. Of course in comparative testing it doesn’t really matter that much, as the difference between one mode and another will still be apparent. Still, if there is any one factor to keep in mind in designing such testing units, it is probably more to minimize capacitance rather than to worry about shielding for noise reduction. Use single conductor wires to wire your box, not shielded. Shielding the box itself should take care of the noise concerns, while introducing less capacitance than shielded internal cables.
@@A2Guitars Thanks so much for taking the time to provide your thoughtful tips. That's generous of you. I don't have an electronics background. I'll have to read up on it to understand better. My current understanding that a longer guitar cable generally increases capacitance and diminishes high-end response, so that seems to fit in with what you said. I'll shall try to limit the wire lengths and use short cables to/from the box, and use low capacitance cables. (It sounds like I should buy a multimeter that can measure capacitance). As for shielding, yes, I'll use single-conductor wires inside the shielded box. I was thinking that the cables from the guitar to the box should be shielded though, but I guess I can try without if the downside is increased capacitance. Cheers!
In the switch station, how can only one knob be used for the volume (or tone), and yet have a separate switch for the potentiometer resistance values and a separate switch controlling the taper (between linear- and audio-). These resistance values and taper characteristics are normally inherent in the potentiometer, and can't be changed separately.
There are 16 pots within the box (8 for volume, 8 for tone) selected out of hundreds for tested tolerance, synchronized through a gear mechanism. The value and taper switches simply select which pots are engaged in the circuit at a given time.
Nice Vídeo ! Perfect demonstration> Congratulations ! I would do a modification , but I see that it is not ideal for my case the independent volume. I'm going to replace only the capacitors by orange drops for a more linear response curve. Thank you very much ! Regards !
Q> Isn't the whole point of audio taper pots to make the changes in sound level appear to be linear to the ear, which I have been led to believe, has a logorithmic response to stimuli, something like 10 ten times as much power (watts) to sound twice as loud, 100 times as many watts to sound 3 times as loud or something like that? So the audio pots look like a drastic change in level on the analyser but it's all supposed to sounds linear to the ear.
i am contemplating going with a TRS jack for dual channel output, for a HSS guitar. I’d be able to separate the bridge humbucker and fine-tune it as i wanted to channel A, and the singleCoils to channel B. I’d merge them in the mix. One of the things i am aiming towards is wiring an in- series position for the single coils. This would give me a 2 humbucker guitar. Do you think i might as well use a 3Vol pot solution (instead of the dual-channel output jack)? 1 master Vol 1 independent Vol for the Humbucker 1 independent Vol for both middle & neck single coils What do you reckon, Thank you once again. ;)
I just realised that dependant masters have the output coming off the centre lug of the volume pot whereas independent have the output coming off the outside lug on the volume pot......I think
I have P-J type Ibanez TMB30 bass guitar with 3 knobs: two knobs for neck and bridge pickups and one knob for standard tone control. Two volume knobs B500K with linear tapers soldered as independent volume knobs, tone control with D500K taper on output side after volume knobs. So I noticed the odd behavior of volume knobs. When the tone control is roll-on to CW, volume knobs works as usual. But when I roll-off the tone control to CCW, volume knobs turns off the pickups almost instantly, at 8 or even 9 value. Why it happens? Is it possible that my volume pots are broken?
SO YOUR SAYING, IF WE PUT 2 INDEPENDENT VOLUMES. AND SWITCH TO ONLY ONE PICKUP, WHEN YOU LOWER THE VOLUME OF THAT RESPECTIVE PICKUP, IT WILL DRASTICALLY CUT THE HIGH END TONES, COMPARED TO A MASTER VOLUME OR 2 DUAL MASTER VOLUME ?
What a great video, and that's coming from a guy who uses independent volume controls (FWIW). It always goes back to how the player uses the instrument and under what conditions. Thank you for your work.
I would love to see the schematics of what you refer to as master versus independent volume circuits to better understand what you are demonstrating. Great video.
Without a doubt your series of videos have helped me the most from all the other videos that I've seen on CZcams or anywhere else for that matter, so thank you for taking the time to do this and please don't let it be the last.
Today, I used this video to diagnose a problem with a second-hand guitar I purchased that had a peculiarly muddy tone as the neck volume pot was rolled down. I went from thinking it may be the value fo the capacitor, to thinking it was a modern vs 50s wiring distinction, to finally using the information in this video along with another wiring diagram of independent volume arrangement to determine that it was wired as independent causing the particularly muddy volume roll off. Thank you
All your videos have been tremendously useful & well scripted. You are very good at balancing engineering explanations to real-world uses for guitar players - well done!!
Thank you David for explaining really good the electronics of a guitar. 10/10
great video, been looking for a 'how does it affect my tone' explanation rather than just all the various wiring schemes!
outstanding video. outstanding.
This is what a scientific approach to an issue actually is.
Thanks so much for the video.
cheers from Portugal
just sat through all six tutes and MY BRAIN HURTS. Thank You Dave for putting it all in perspective and with pictures :)
Thanks for that. Watched them all back to back. I think you melted my brain!!!!
Very informative series, indeed. On my monitor, the spec analyzer waveform is almost invisible. Dark orange wave on dark gray background.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who would enjoy seeing details about your test box. Thanks - Lumpy
This series is the best i ever seen on the topic of pots wiring. It’s better to see instant switching and freq response graph once than read it endless times on forums.
This is a good channel. While the sound is the most important, I like to see what's going on too. Thanks and I like your little machine you got there.
I was all excited about putting 50s wiring, bumble bees and lollars in my new Les Paul, but after watching your videos back to back, I'm thinking of learning the triangle!
Right now, this video and the previous one are helping me figuring out my wiring choices for my next guitar pickups change and full re-wire.
I thought about independent volumes. I had not heard of 50's wiring.
Now I am quite clear about what will be best for me, or at least what to expect when choosing an option. Going for master + 50's.
Thanks for this quality content with accurate trials and comprehensive explanations, this saved me a lot of time and taught me more than I would have thought.
Cheers!
Thank you so much for putting this video together. I watched it 20 times and it really helped me making my choice!
Excellent and genuinely informative video. Nothing beats having the differences in tone demonstrated change by change.
That was the most helpful breakdown of this issue I've seen. Thanks!
Maybe its my hearing ..but I can't tell the differences. I like the over all blending the independent volume does. The LP wiring has a master volume behaviour I don't like.
THANK YOU so much! This is the only video I could find that actually explained the changes associated with independent wiring. And I love that you did it with a spectrum analyzer!
After watching your videos I decided to keep the master volume control on my new Les Paul rather than modding it to independent. However, I still am going to make the change to output loading for my tone circuits. That's perfect for my play style.
Thank you! Just amazing videos. Only one sugestion: to pick the sound with the mic!
Awesome series of videos!.
Thank you very much.
It would be really interesting to see, how independent controls work together with '50s tone wiring!.
Maybe, one balances the other...
By far the best video on the topic. Thank you very much and keep up the good work
Hello David, did you design and build your tester? or got it from a specialized shop? it is quite handy to make lots of testings without the mess to solder and unsolder into the guitar's electronic compartment.
Great video!
Excellent series! Thank you very much!
Great series! What did your test box start life as? Now I have to find ANOTHER Philco 7070 and gut it... I hope your proud of yourself Dave! ;)
I'm learning to rewire guitars, and experiment with my own so I really do appreciate your videos and your going through the time and trouble of doing them. These are the best technical guitar wiring videos that I've found. I would love to have one of those "magic boxes". I imagine that one was custom made for that purpose. Once again thanks. ;{)
So with independent wiring, if the load on the pickup is changing because the other pot is effectively out of the circuit, can the treble attenuation be mitigated, at least partially, by using a higher volume pot value, say a 1meg instead of a 500k? Obviously this would also change the treble response when using both pickups together (middle position).
Beyond excellent!
I want to build a controls box like this myself, to explore the different possibilities for individual guitars and their pickups. I'd like to have a version that takes in cables from the individual pickups, to be able to experiment with that (i.e. pickup combinations, phasing, parallel/series) in the box as well. I'm thinking that as long as I have shielded cables going from the guitar's pickups, I should be right? My box wouldn't be as nice as this, e.g. I'd have to have individual tone pot knobs on the panel, (in addition to the switch that selects between them). But if the box is shielded, there shouldn't be any problem with all the extra switching picking up more EMI, do you think?
In most environments you shouldn’t have to worry about noise too much, but capacitance is something g to be aware of. As you add wires and components and shielded enclosures to a circuit, you will inevitably add some amount of capacitance, which can alter the high end response.
If I recall correctly (it’s been a few years since I made this), I think this box added about 450 picofarads to the circuit, which is roughly the equivalent of what an average quality 15’ cable (conquest, or similar) would add. So in testing I used 5’ in and 5’ out Elixer cables, which measured at an impressively low 10pf per foot, giving me a total capacitance approximate to a typical 20’ cable.
Of course in comparative testing it doesn’t really matter that much, as the difference between one mode and another will still be apparent. Still, if there is any one factor to keep in mind in designing such testing units, it is probably more to minimize capacitance rather than to worry about shielding for noise reduction.
Use single conductor wires to wire your box, not shielded. Shielding the box itself should take care of the noise concerns, while introducing less capacitance than shielded internal cables.
@@A2Guitars Thanks so much for taking the time to provide your thoughtful tips. That's generous of you. I don't have an electronics background. I'll have to read up on it to understand better. My current understanding that a longer guitar cable generally increases capacitance and diminishes high-end response, so that seems to fit in with what you said. I'll shall try to limit the wire lengths and use short cables to/from the box, and use low capacitance cables. (It sounds like I should buy a multimeter that can measure capacitance). As for shielding, yes, I'll use single-conductor wires inside the shielded box. I was thinking that the cables from the guitar to the box should be shielded though, but I guess I can try without if the downside is increased capacitance. Cheers!
Great explanation! Thank you
Thanks for this!
In the switch station, how can only one knob be used for the volume (or tone), and yet have a separate switch for the potentiometer resistance values and a separate switch controlling the taper (between linear- and audio-). These resistance values and taper characteristics are normally inherent in the potentiometer, and can't be changed separately.
There are 16 pots within the box (8 for volume, 8 for tone) selected out of hundreds for tested tolerance, synchronized through a gear mechanism. The value and taper switches simply select which pots are engaged in the circuit at a given time.
@@A2Guitars Wow, "synchronized through a gear mechanism", nice!
Nice Vídeo ! Perfect demonstration> Congratulations ! I would do a modification , but I see that it is not ideal for my case the independent volume. I'm going to replace only the capacitors by orange drops for a more linear response curve. Thank you very much ! Regards !
Q> Isn't the whole point of audio taper pots to make the changes in sound level appear to be linear to the ear, which I have been led to believe, has a logorithmic response to stimuli, something like 10 ten times as much power (watts) to sound twice as loud, 100 times as many watts to sound 3 times as loud or something like that?
So the audio pots look like a drastic change in level on the analyser but it's all supposed to sounds linear to the ear.
Fantastic ! ... you are doing a great job...Thanks
Really great and i learned a lot! Thanks!
i am contemplating going with a TRS jack for dual channel output, for a HSS guitar.
I’d be able to separate the bridge humbucker and fine-tune it as i wanted to channel A, and the singleCoils to channel B.
I’d merge them in the mix.
One of the things i am aiming towards is wiring an in- series position for the single coils. This would give me a 2 humbucker guitar.
Do you think i might as well use a 3Vol pot solution (instead of the dual-channel output jack)?
1 master Vol
1 independent Vol for the Humbucker
1 independent Vol for both middle & neck single coils
What do you reckon,
Thank you once again. ;)
Super informative, thanks
What was the taper on the audio taper potentiometer?
Excellent information. Do you have a schematic showing how to wire up two volumes as dual masters ?
I just realised that dependant masters have the output coming off the centre lug of the volume pot whereas independent have the output coming off the outside lug on the volume pot......I think
Very well explained. I'm pleased. Nick from Buenos Aires, Argentina. ;)
I have P-J type Ibanez TMB30 bass guitar with 3 knobs: two knobs for neck and bridge pickups and one knob for standard tone control. Two volume knobs B500K with linear tapers soldered as independent volume knobs, tone control with D500K taper on output side after volume knobs.
So I noticed the odd behavior of volume knobs. When the tone control is roll-on to CW, volume knobs works as usual. But when I roll-off the tone control to CCW, volume knobs turns off the pickups almost instantly, at 8 or even 9 value.
Why it happens? Is it possible that my volume pots are broken?
SO YOUR SAYING, IF WE PUT 2 INDEPENDENT VOLUMES. AND SWITCH TO ONLY ONE PICKUP, WHEN YOU LOWER THE VOLUME OF THAT RESPECTIVE PICKUP, IT WILL DRASTICALLY CUT THE HIGH END TONES, COMPARED TO A MASTER VOLUME OR 2 DUAL MASTER VOLUME ?
How much would such a device cost? Really interesting!
Wow, independent volume controls are TERRIBLE for tone.