Canon Rangefinders and Wrinkled Shutter Curtains
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- Many Canon rangefinders used a metal shutter curtain which is prone to developing wrinkles. How serious is the problem, and is this a reason to hesitate before purchasing?
Links to Steve Gandy's Cameraquest webpages about the Canon V series and L series rangefinders:
www.cameraques...
www.cameraques...
Other good online resources for Canon rangefinders:
global.canon/e...
www.photoethnog...
www.photoethnog...
www.photoethnog...
www.35mmc.com/...
www.canonrange...
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#canon #rangefinder #shutter
I recently got a Canon 7 at an estate sale for $75 and it came with the 50mm f/1.4 and a black leather case all near mint. It has a slight dent in the curtain but does not affect the operation. Very bright viewfinder and a dial on top to switch frame lines.
The lens alone is worth twice what you paid. Well done!
Thanks Brian, good info on this model, good video!
The VI-L has a rotating viewfinder, but different from V series. It has similar 35mm and magnified views but the VI 50 setting is life size (like the P) and also has a 100mm frame line. Also has the little ball that automatically adjusts V Series accessory finders for parallax ( a very neat Canon-only feature is present in VI-L and VI-T, but not the P.
I did not know that about the VI-L viewfinder.
Some Canon L series cameras have metal shutter curtains. Some have cloth shutter curtains. I now own a Canon L1 myself. Difference between L and T, lever wind versus trigger wind. Both aimed at professionals. P was used by either user, as a budget model. .
The key at the bottom is to open or close the canon cassettes that were used to load "daylight" reloads or refills as I've seen marked in some Ilford canisters. Leica, Zeiss, Nikon and Russian copies used also reloadable cassettes.
That key also deploys and retracts a metal lip which prevents one from accidentally opening the back of the camera. I did not know it had another function as well. Thanks!
man your voice is beautiful
Thanks for this info Brian, I have a canon P coming from Japan. Supposed to be in near mint condition...minor curtain wrinkles but this video helped me commit to the purchase...also ordered a canon 50 1.8 that was indicated to have some haze in the elements...it was significantly cheaper than any other one I could find so fingers crossed the seller was just exaggerating :)
Awesome! It's not easy finding affordable M39 lenses anymore. My go-to fifty in M39 is a Soviet Jupiter 8
@@BriansPhotoShow I have heard very mixed reviews and so with there being multiple versions some better than others, a lot saying the rangefinder needs to be calibrated with the soviet stuff, and someone else saying the silver version rubs the camera body, i played it sort of safe with the canon lens. Time will tell :)
Brian, the L1 was the top of the line canon rangefinder at the time, the L2 and L3 were cheaper models with less features.
I'm still not clear on the relationship between the L1 and the VL.
@@BriansPhotoShow the VL was the next version of the L1 with the timer and metal shutter curtain. A great camera as well.
I wonder if the wrinkled shutters might be due to someone installing a retractable lens which works fine on a leica III but which may touch the shutter curtain when retracted on a canon VI series?
Brian, I did it. I've purchased a Konica T3. I won't be able to really test it for a few months, thanks to a well know virus, but untill then I'll enjoy it at home.
Now don't try to G.A.S. me with rangefinders.
Have you tested it yet? It’s certainly been more than a few
The six series maintains the paralax correction linkage in the hot shoe for paralax correction in accessory finders. Good luck buying one for cheap though! Additionally, some people prefer the two dials for shutter speeds over the single dial in the p. Otherwise you're right, not too much to worry about between the six and the p.
As far as parallax correction goes, don't you need both a camera and a finder so equipped? That is, the parallax correction feature on the Six won't work with a third-party finder, correct?
@@BriansPhotoShow correct. They're not super common, but it is super cool. Not all Canon branded finders have the slot for the correction to function too, which makes looking for them a pain
Not so! The VI is the last in a long line of improving Canon RF shutters, all based on the original Leica design. It is relatively simple, long lasting, and easy to service. The P, along with the 7 and 7S, has a completely new design of focal plane shutter introduced by Canon. It is quite reliable initially. Is has metal foil curtains, so they cannot be burned through as with the traditional cloth curtains. It operates on significantly higher spring pressure, which causes it to wear out of spec more quickly. The issues of this new shutter were unimportant so long as Canon trained service techs and a regular supply of repair parts where available. Unhappily, that repair capacity went away during the later 1970s. Today, almost no repairman will work in the shutter in these models, and if its speeds cannot be pulled into spec by simple adjustment, there are no parts for the needed repairs, so you are just screwed. I hit that wall in the 1980s with a nice Model 7. I've not bothered to have my 7Sz checked out. I have a very nice VIT , which is the only Canon RF body I actually use.
Bought a rough looking Canon 7 with a badly wrinkled shutter. Seller says it’s still working, but I’m so sure. Guess I’ll know when it’s delivered…
I am a big collector of Nikon RFs, but have been trying to pick up a Canon. I have a 28mm LTM lens (with an external finder) what would be a good camera I am leaning toward the L1 or VI-L, but I could go for trigger mount. I know the P is popular, but it seems overrated.
The VI-L is an excellent choice, if you can find one in good condition.
I just bought an L2 off ebay from Japan and just got it, somehow it has a metal shutter on it. Really weird since I read it had a cloth shutter too.
My understanding is that many Canon rangefinders of this generation had their cloth shutters replaced with metal if the camera was sent in for repair of a shutter issue.
I must have gotten lucky with my P because the curtains in mine are perfect!
That is lucky indeed.
I have both still use them too
Titanium shutters for the win
Apart from the bright lines, are those viewfinders/RF patch about the same?
My understanding from others is that the 7's VF is much brighters and improved (though the body material itself isnt as bulletproof as the VI and V).
I'm so close to pulling the trigger on one of these.
I've never owned a 7 so I can't say.
Hello, does Canon L1 and Canon L2 have light seals? Or is it like Canon P that does not have? Thanks!
Hi Brian i have a question. My Canon P has the wrinkled shutter curtain & yes it did not affect the operation of the camera. However, i realized that my pictures will have some light leaks consistently on each roll, but only like 2-3 photos per roll. Do you think it’s related to the shutter curtain or it’s caused by something else?
I have never heard of a light leak from a metal shutter curtain. Having said that, I am not a technician so I can't say with certainty.
Curious does the wrinkles develop from natural use, age and design or is it actually just the a dumb photographer putting his/her thumb on it?
Definitely not a dumb photographer issue. Most likely due to degree of usage and manner of storage.
There are three kinds of wrinkles you'll see on Canon RF cameras, and they have different causes:
1) Large shallow wrinkles like on the P shown here: Sometime during the camera's lifetime a user might have stuck a thumb through it while loading. More likely IMHO: the shutter jammed or got stuck during its travel. When this happened to a cloth-curtain camera, the curtains would wrinkle up but then smooth out again when the jam was released; the same would happen on a metal-curtain camera but some ripples would remain behind because the metal was less flexible. As long as the two shutter curtains start crisply and move smoothly across the film gate, the camera will work fine with even fairly scary-looking wrinkles.
2) Small, deep circular “pinpoint”: This is almost certainly caused by leaving the camera pointed at the sun for a long period with the lens uncapped. The localized heat of the sun focused on the curtain causes it to distort, leaving this tiny dent. On a cloth-curtain camera such as a Leica this would have burned a hole in the curtain and it would need to be patched or replaced; on Canon metal curtains (which were made of epoxy-coated stainless steel, BTW) again the camera usually would keep working fine.
3) Single well-defined vertical impression from top to bottom: This one is actually avoidable. It's caused by the reinforcing band at the edge of the shutter curtain when it rolls up onto the shutter drum after exposure. The band has some thickness to it, and over time (remember these cameras are all about 60 years old now) if it sits too long this way it will leave an impression where it is pressed in contact with the curtain. To avoid it: when you're done using your Canon for a while and ready to put it away, advance it just far enough that the reinforcing band just comes into view in the shutter opening. (You don't want to cock the shutter all the way because eventually the springs will lose tension.) This keeps the band out of contact with the curtain and it won't leave a mark. Obviously no need to bother if you've already got marked curtains, but if you have one of the few little-used Canons with perfect curtains, this will help keep them that way.
Hi! Thanks for this video :)
How's the viewfinder of the Canon P compared to the VI?
The VI series, other than the P, have viewfinders similar to the V series which change magnification by turning a dial but lack frame lines.
@@BriansPhotoShow oh sorry I meant the VL, which is what you have here 😅 P viewfinder vs VL viewfinder?
@@TheNinjek The P uses framelines whereas the VL uses a rotating mechanism which changes viewfinder magnification. I've got a P vs. VL comparison video going live later this month, so stay tuned!
@@BriansPhotoShow Oh nice! Looking forward to watching it :) Thanks!