Find Oscar's video courses here: courses.underdog.brussels 🖤🖤🖤 Join the Underdog Discord channel: discord.gg/z5N9CTA 👾👾👾 Sign up to the mailing list here: tinyurl.com/yy92sx5u 💌💌💌 Pledge to the Patreon: www.patreon.com/underdogmusicschool 🌱🌱🌱
100% agree with you. I also bought a subwoofer isolation system under the sub that removes the sub vibrations from the floor and now it sounds like a studio!
Diffusion is also something you might wanna look into. I read that too much absorption is not good for your room...but i could be wrong. But, i built some quadratic diffusers along with some absorbers and im pretty happy with those. Anyway, thanks for your videos man! You're the best!
3:43 You don't want them to be "as much as possible" to be covered. Anechoic chambers are used for recording, not for production. A mix of diffusion and absorption is the way to go.
I started using it over 6 months ago in a fairly heavily treated room with a 6dB drop at like 70hz and a bit of a boost at roughly 300hz. I used it like that for about 4 years before picking up the measurement mic and sonarworks. After calibrating it felt pretty much like a new room and I found that setting bass levels was far easier to get right on the first try. As well as making the high end seem a bit more clear and defined. As of a few months ago I moved into an apartment and used a lot less of my acoustic treatment. I applied a new calibration and found the same results. It helped with bass problems and made my listening position a lot more neutral. Of course resonances still exist in the new room but setting levels and EQing is far easier. I also use the headphone preset on my M50x when I am at coffee shops or just away from home and it also helps make those more neutral although milage may vary since there is a margin of error on all of those headphones. They all will have slightly different frequency response.
That analogy about the funhouse mirrors has been stuck in my head for a couple of days because of how accurate it is. So far I've built and treated my room with panels, got the subwoofer, and now my sonarworks mic should be arriving today. Thank you for this helpful video.
Sonarworks is doing "digital room correction" (DRC), and there are several other DRC systems. But just as Oscar said, it's not magic, and the reason you still need acoustic treatment is because DRC can only perfectly correct the sound at a single location. If you listen at that exact sweet spot you get the flat-line frequency response from the graph, but if you move even slightly the correction becomes less accurate. DRC can even make things sound worse in some cases. It works best for subtle correction after you already have good acoustic treatment.
A good alternative to subwoofer is the Subpac! I use it when mixing low end in drum & bass and other bass heavy music, works wonders with my Adam a7x and the neighbours are also quite happy with it ;-)
I find your videos extremely simple and to the point. Than you for doing that, I've learned a lot! One of the videos which are hard to find on youtube and trainings is how to arrange whole songs and control emotions from start to the end. 99% of videos are about one and each piece of music or short "ideas" but the question is how to put them together and manage expectations along the way: something like in the book Sweet Anticipation, by David Huron. Peace!
I literally just fixed my sleep schedule. But here I am, 1:44am taking notes. *specifically from the RMS/Levels and Techno music theory videos. This is just the one I happened to comment on, it's been a night. 🧠
Question! For a beginner bedroom producer, in-ear monitors are an excellent (and a budget) choice for beginner works. A lot of times people say not to trust headphones; why is that? Why shouldn't we stick with in ear monitors?
Thanks for making this video Oscar! Love your simple and practical approach to one of the most complicated topics related to home studios. By the way, which sub did you get for your A7x? I have the A5x and am considering getting a sub as well.
I got the Sub8! I guess I was seduced by getting the bigger one, as you can see by the graphs, it might be overkill. 😁 And for real, without the sonarworks it might actually do more harm than good in my poorly treated room!
@@OscarUnderdog I’ve managed to treat my room in a way similar to yours (less pretty version though). I’ve heard that subs can cause phasing issues and that’s what keeps me from getting one. But I think I’ll take the plunge soon.
@@awkwrd_ most subs do offer 180deg phase flip. Matching sub doesn't need one. Buy mic8000 and do some measurements. Identify what causes peaks in graph (by moving furniture / rockwool ). Rinse and repeat. It's pretty dull, but worth it
That's my understanding too, but I prefer that people go to Jesco for his knowledge, I feel like I'm just repeating what he says, and it's better they get it from the real authority 😁🙏
Actually not even so much! Moreso that every monitoring method over and under represents certain frequencies, so the truth is always somewhere in between, and you need to learn your own system as deeply as possible to have confidence in how your mix decisions will translate to other systems! Fletcher-munson is more about how our ear is more sensitive to certain frequencies in the upper mids, which is also important, but a separate topic 😁
For me using 2 different amplifiers, one for the high + mid and one for the bass speakers (no sub) I can regulate both in volume to adjust some bouncing sounds.
I am almost in the same place like you…almost because i am not sure how to use sonarwork with subwofers. One of first things to do is misure with sonarwork mic in around 2 cm from woofer. And subwoofer?
How about the new pioneer speakers that have a ´club´ setting, they say you can use it as flat monitors, or as club speakers. Trust or not? It would save alot of money if true, so you don´t need midfield or club monitors.
Hi Oscar, I've got a question regarding the acoustic panels. Did you use any fabric like black garden fabric before putting on the "decorative" fabric layer? Look forward to hearing from you. Chris
@@OscarUnderdog Many thanks for your quick response. indeed, I found it quite frustrating as I have not made sure if it is okay to use only the acoustically transparent fabric.. Anyway, thanks again for your response.Being a subscriber since you started your YT channel it is really nice to see that your channel’s growing so fast.. Cheers
I have a question. If i was to use this method to treat my room would buying some of them corner bass traps be necessary? because i see these are like 2d panels whereas bass traps are 3d if you get what i mean.
@@OscarUnderdog really informative video. Our of interest what headphones are your go to for referencing, mixing and mastering? I'm deliberating over the DT990 and DT880. Thanks !
What I found out over the years: Don't deafen your room to death and make it sound dull. Instead go for the critical points like where early reflections occur seen from your hearing position. Go for good enough, not perfect. Your room can keep some character, don't kill it. And bass: For 150Hz downwards use headphones and make it mono. :)
Mainly a headphone mixing kind of guy, but I have a n00b question; how do you add a sub to a set-up? I have 2 old monitors (Alesis M1 Active MkII) that are connected to a small mixer. Left and right main outs of the mixer are taken by the speakers. Do I need a more expensive mixer which has a sub out or something or some kind of crossover hardware device which divides the frequency range and sends the lower frequencies to the sub? Also, what are good subwoofers to complement these kind of monitors, I guess ideally you'd go with the same manufacturer, but when this isn't possible?
Hi! Yeah I would say 100% stick with the same manufacturer. Usually the sub takes a stereo input and then acts as a crossover, and you then connect the speakers to the subwoofer (not he mixing desk).
Thank you very much. May I ask someone, when measuring sonarworks tells you to measure your two main left and right speakers , they don’t mention the subwoofer, does this remain plugged in ? How are they measuring it’s presence if the microphone only measures what is coming from the main left and right speakers, thank you. Best wishes.
Hi Edward! I'm pretty sure it's something you just need to mention in the configuration phase, and then it takes it into account during the measurements. I have it set up with my sub here, and it works pretty well I must say.
Could you please do a Camo & Krooked typa tutorial? In particular their glitchy sounds like in Atlas, Ember, Come Together and essentially the whole album Mosiak I am learning so much from you, thank you so much
How to write drop melodiey for vocal track??and how 2 differeng melodies in one track??I study pop vocal melody..they help me alot to connect music melodies for edm tracks
What about Sonarworks Reference HEADPHONES edition? I have very poor monitoring system (well, because I'm poor lol), so I use Beats LP for headphones (don't laugh) running through calibration preset in Sonarworks for these headphones. Do I have at least a slight chance to reduce the "fun house mirror" distortion, or am I damned?
Haha kudos for trying to make it work against the odds 😁 It's definitely a step in the right direction, and if you make sure that you get really used to these headphones you can probably get pretty far on them. The secret weapon here is referencing ALL THE TIME with other pro tracks in your genre. That is the #1 way to stay objective about making better mixes on bad monitors!
I'm completely stuck with headphones as when I do get time to make music, its always when my daughter is asleep. I do like Sonarworks though and when my demo runs out, I will pick it up. EDIT: also with regards to subwoofers, do you get room correction software for studio monitors like you do with home cinema?
You certainly got a gift,there is something that makes you special,the way you explain things,is very useful and understandable..keep it real, you will be very successful.
Yeah , my room frequency responsing in sonarworks is like the left picture ，I always thinking that is the problem of my room，now I see , I need a subwoofer >_< !
@@djnebuchanezzer ;) I had gone back to rewatch the video and I did notice sonarworks. So yes he did actually say or infer how he measured it. I didn't come back to update a comment. What it's worth yes -- 'egg on face'. But I didn't want to assume it was so not sonarworks maybe he used some other tool so that's why I didn't update my comment.
Everyone has very different neuro-psychologic response to headphones. Some might imagine phantom landscapes, while others get claustrophobia. But I agree that GOOD AND PRICY headphones are better than shitty room. On another hand, nothing beats 15" tops with sub for the test at 110db - you'll know exactly where your mixing lacks. Most people have their favourite headphones. They've listened to many albums on them. Mine favourites are Shure SRH 440. They are simple and not very accurate, but comfortable and I managed to get mix to translate reasonably ok (apart from bass).
Nice video and definitely valid points, but: make great music first! Spending lots of money and time in technical stuff is really a pitfall. A shitty track in a perfectly optimized room is still a shitty track. Learn your tools and composition first, and then invest in making your tracks sound better. At least, that would be my advice. BTW. Junkie XL (famous Hollywood-producer) doesn't care about acoustic treatment at all. And that's not because he can't afford it 😁 P.S. I've wasted 15 years thinking my music wasn't good enough and overcomplicating things. Last year I finally send a demo to a label, I got signed and released 10 tracks ever since. Just produced on my attic, without any treatment at all. Not ideal, and I'd really like to have an optimized studio once, but this also works. Until I am ready for the next step, but everything in its time.
@@shaverred1030 I'm not saying it's bad. It definitely isn't, and I also want to treat my studio at some point. But as a novice producer, I wouldn't start with that. Just make superb tracks first.
@@defactotechno9850 I'm actually agreeing with you. I'm saying that you can get good results with either. If deadmau5 and Junkie XL who use opposite approaches and achieve similar results you can too.
@@shaverred1030 In the end it's all about what sounds good 😀 The listener doesn't care what DAW, plugins or studio you're using. And in my experience you don't need much, when you know what you're doing 👍
Find Oscar's video courses here: courses.underdog.brussels 🖤🖤🖤
Join the Underdog Discord channel: discord.gg/z5N9CTA 👾👾👾
Sign up to the mailing list here: tinyurl.com/yy92sx5u 💌💌💌
Pledge to the Patreon: www.patreon.com/underdogmusicschool 🌱🌱🌱
hey oscar, the link to acoustics insider youtube channel isnt working: here is a working link: czcams.com/channels/57auUfJlTvIvW79pom_i1g.html
@@hanneshintner6109 a awww
€9
M
JC'
When you said "... your music production "CAREER" I felt personally attacked. xD
😂 sorry!
@@OscarUnderdog where can I find good kicks and other samples for deep house? South African deep tech to be precise. Willing to pay
@@ELLIOT8209 Try out Splice, a month for free, I guess. They have all the samples in the world.
It's not an attack, it's ENCOURAGEMENT! You got this. :D
100% agree with you. I also bought a subwoofer isolation system under the sub that removes the sub vibrations from the floor and now it sounds like a studio!
Diffusion is also something you might wanna look into. I read that too much absorption is not good for your room...but i could be wrong. But, i built some quadratic diffusers along with some absorbers and im pretty happy with those. Anyway, thanks for your videos man! You're the best!
Cheers Hexxa!
3:43 You don't want them to be "as much as possible" to be covered. Anechoic chambers are used for recording, not for production. A mix of diffusion and absorption is the way to go.
I started using it over 6 months ago in a fairly heavily treated room with a 6dB drop at like 70hz and a bit of a boost at roughly 300hz. I used it like that for about 4 years before picking up the measurement mic and sonarworks. After calibrating it felt pretty much like a new room and I found that setting bass levels was far easier to get right on the first try. As well as making the high end seem a bit more clear and defined.
As of a few months ago I moved into an apartment and used a lot less of my acoustic treatment. I applied a new calibration and found the same results. It helped with bass problems and made my listening position a lot more neutral. Of course resonances still exist in the new room but setting levels and EQing is far easier.
I also use the headphone preset on my M50x when I am at coffee shops or just away from home and it also helps make those more neutral although milage may vary since there is a margin of error on all of those headphones. They all will have slightly different frequency response.
That analogy about the funhouse mirrors has been stuck in my head for a couple of days because of how accurate it is. So far I've built and treated my room with panels, got the subwoofer, and now my sonarworks mic should be arriving today. Thank you for this helpful video.
Sonarworks is doing "digital room correction" (DRC), and there are several other DRC systems. But just as Oscar said, it's not magic, and the reason you still need acoustic treatment is because DRC can only perfectly correct the sound at a single location. If you listen at that exact sweet spot you get the flat-line frequency response from the graph, but if you move even slightly the correction becomes less accurate. DRC can even make things sound worse in some cases. It works best for subtle correction after you already have good acoustic treatment.
Rwa45 rockwool at a 100mm thickness.
Always leave a air gap behind the absorbers too. 👍
Yes great, as thick as possible 😁
A good alternative to subwoofer is the Subpac! I use it when mixing low end in drum & bass and other bass heavy music, works wonders with my Adam a7x and the neighbours are also quite happy with it ;-)
Oscar , what do you think of subpac ? Should it help with creating the low frequency's , or is this only some gadget ?
Idc what the title is about, a new video is out and I am watching it!!!
I like your mindset 🦄
I find your videos extremely simple and to the point. Than you for doing that, I've learned a lot!
One of the videos which are hard to find on youtube and trainings is how to arrange whole songs and control emotions from start to the end.
99% of videos are about one and each piece of music or short "ideas" but the question is how to put them together and manage expectations along the way: something like in the book Sweet Anticipation, by David Huron. Peace!
You might want to search for songwriting methods, and also music theory lessons. But at the end of the day, practice is the best teacher !
I literally just fixed my sleep schedule.
But here I am, 1:44am taking notes.
*specifically from the RMS/Levels and Techno music theory videos.
This is just the one I happened to comment on, it's been a night. 🧠
😁💚 sweet dreams...
where we can hear your music?
Question! For a beginner bedroom producer, in-ear monitors are an excellent (and a budget) choice for beginner works. A lot of times people say not to trust headphones; why is that? Why shouldn't we stick with in ear monitors?
Perfect for home theater as well! Thanks!
Also. The ultimate correction system is Trinnov 👍
Thanks for making this video Oscar! Love your simple and practical approach to one of the most complicated topics related to home studios. By the way, which sub did you get for your A7x? I have the A5x and am considering getting a sub as well.
I got the Sub8! I guess I was seduced by getting the bigger one, as you can see by the graphs, it might be overkill. 😁 And for real, without the sonarworks it might actually do more harm than good in my poorly treated room!
@@OscarUnderdog I’ve managed to treat my room in a way similar to yours (less pretty version though). I’ve heard that subs can cause phasing issues and that’s what keeps me from getting one. But I think I’ll take the plunge soon.
@@awkwrd_ most subs do offer 180deg phase flip. Matching sub doesn't need one.
Buy mic8000 and do some measurements. Identify what causes peaks in graph (by moving furniture / rockwool ). Rinse and repeat. It's pretty dull, but worth it
Good video, I think you should’ve touched on the acoustic foam and how it’s insignificant it is until you tame the low end
That's my understanding too, but I prefer that people go to Jesco for his knowledge, I feel like I'm just repeating what he says, and it's better they get it from the real authority 😁🙏
Love your vids man. Very informative tips & tricks and well explained. Greetz from Aalst ✌️
1:40, you meant Fletcher Munson curve, right? but in a very funny and actually quite interesting comparison to the mirrors:)
Actually not even so much! Moreso that every monitoring method over and under represents certain frequencies, so the truth is always somewhere in between, and you need to learn your own system as deeply as possible to have confidence in how your mix decisions will translate to other systems!
Fletcher-munson is more about how our ear is more sensitive to certain frequencies in the upper mids, which is also important, but a separate topic 😁
For me using 2 different amplifiers, one for the high + mid and one for the bass speakers (no sub) I can regulate both in volume to adjust some bouncing sounds.
I am almost in the same place like you…almost because i am not sure how to use sonarwork with subwofers. One of first things to do is misure with sonarwork mic in around 2 cm from woofer. And subwoofer?
Hey Johnny Sins, great video!
How about the new pioneer speakers that have a ´club´ setting, they say you can use it as flat monitors, or as club speakers. Trust or not? It would save alot of money if true, so you don´t need midfield or club monitors.
Quickly becoming my favorite electronic music CZcams channel. Thanks!
What about mixing with good headphones like Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO for example?
Hi Oscar,
I've got a question regarding the acoustic panels. Did you use any fabric like black garden fabric before putting on the "decorative" fabric layer?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Chris
I didnt! I saw some videos where people did do it, so I hope I'm not doing any damage to myself longterm 😅 havent noticed any problems so far though!
@@OscarUnderdog
Many thanks for your quick response.
indeed, I found it quite frustrating as I have not made sure if it is okay to use only the acoustically transparent fabric..
Anyway, thanks again for your response.Being a subscriber since you started your YT channel it is really nice to see that your channel’s growing so fast..
Cheers
I have a question. If i was to use this method to treat my room would buying some of them corner bass traps be necessary? because i see these are like 2d panels whereas bass traps are 3d if you get what i mean.
*Alternative video title: "Room For Improvement".*
DAMN. love it.
Why not just use a good pair of studio headphones?
Definitely part of a good monitoring strategy :) but also not "neutral" by any means. So it's just another funhouse mirror to learn to paint through!
@@OscarUnderdog really informative video. Our of interest what headphones are your go to for referencing, mixing and mastering? I'm deliberating over the DT990 and DT880. Thanks !
@@JoinTheBlocks 990 all day
Hi, haven't seen the video yet but I love your channel. Bye!
In case you care, your link in description to the acousticsinsider YT channel is broken.
What I found out over the years: Don't deafen your room to death and make it sound dull. Instead go for the critical points like where early reflections occur seen from your hearing position. Go for good enough, not perfect. Your room can keep some character, don't kill it. And bass: For 150Hz downwards use headphones and make it mono. :)
You are a legend mate thanks heaps
Mainly a headphone mixing kind of guy, but I have a n00b question; how do you add a sub to a set-up? I have 2 old monitors (Alesis M1 Active MkII) that are connected to a small mixer. Left and right main outs of the mixer are taken by the speakers. Do I need a more expensive mixer which has a sub out or something or some kind of crossover hardware device which divides the frequency range and sends the lower frequencies to the sub? Also, what are good subwoofers to complement these kind of monitors, I guess ideally you'd go with the same manufacturer, but when this isn't possible?
Hi! Yeah I would say 100% stick with the same manufacturer. Usually the sub takes a stereo input and then acts as a crossover, and you then connect the speakers to the subwoofer (not he mixing desk).
Once again you are reading my mind and offer answers to what I was wondering ! Thx a lot !
With which program you checked the frequencies in the room? Also Sonar Works?
Thank you very much. May I ask someone, when measuring sonarworks tells you to measure your two main left and right speakers , they don’t mention the subwoofer, does this remain plugged in ? How are they measuring it’s presence if the microphone only measures what is coming from the main left and right speakers, thank you. Best wishes.
Hi Edward! I'm pretty sure it's something you just need to mention in the configuration phase, and then it takes it into account during the measurements. I have it set up with my sub here, and it works pretty well I must say.
@@OscarUnderdog oh thank you very much. I am most grateful. I subscribed and look forward to more interesting videos, thank you.
What do you think about headphones? Can you mix only with a good pair?
Could you please do a Camo & Krooked typa tutorial? In particular their glitchy sounds like in Atlas, Ember, Come Together and essentially the whole album Mosiak
I am learning so much from you, thank you so much
very good!
How to write drop melodiey for vocal track??and how 2 differeng melodies in one track??I study pop vocal melody..they help me alot to connect music melodies for edm tracks
What about Sonarworks Reference HEADPHONES edition? I have very poor monitoring system (well, because I'm poor lol), so I use Beats LP for headphones (don't laugh) running through calibration preset in Sonarworks for these headphones. Do I have at least a slight chance to reduce the "fun house mirror" distortion, or am I damned?
Haha kudos for trying to make it work against the odds 😁 It's definitely a step in the right direction, and if you make sure that you get really used to these headphones you can probably get pretty far on them. The secret weapon here is referencing ALL THE TIME with other pro tracks in your genre. That is the #1 way to stay objective about making better mixes on bad monitors!
R- RuneScape reference in thumbnail? 🤭
The shrimp in background 🦐
Golden Shrimp Guild ?
I have 8 inch yamaha hs8. in a fairly not very big room. Do i still need a sub woofer?
I'm completely stuck with headphones as when I do get time to make music, its always when my daughter is asleep. I do like Sonarworks though and when my demo runs out, I will pick it up. EDIT: also with regards to subwoofers, do you get room correction software for studio monitors like you do with home cinema?
Same!
What jacket are you wearing? Thanks for the useful video
Hahaha 😁 just one from a second hand store here in brussels. Kinda sporty style.
Thanks for this one too.
Can you do an in-depth on these lo-fi sample-based artists, lik Eastghost or Clams Casino?
You certainly got a gift,there is something that makes you special,the way you explain things,is very useful and understandable..keep it real, you will be very successful.
Dude, u incredible, love your videos!
Freaking good video. The start to good sound that speaks sonic truth. 👍 really good channel
Hi
@@tranikaedwards8983 well, hello there! 😁
Yeah , my room frequency responsing in sonarworks is like the left picture ，I always thinking that is the problem of my room，now I see , I need a subwoofer >_< !
When’s the podcast launching?
How did you measure the frequency response for the room before and after the subwoofer?
He said sonarworks in the video. Pay more attention lol
And btw i dont mean it in an arrogant or condescending manner i am just having a light hearted laugh man.
@@djnebuchanezzer ;) I had gone back to rewatch the video and I did notice sonarworks. So yes he did actually say or infer how he measured it. I didn't come back to update a comment. What it's worth yes -- 'egg on face'. But I didn't want to assume it was so not sonarworks maybe he used some other tool so that's why I didn't update my comment.
Finally some decent information and a teacher
Yeah... for a while I wondered if you and Acoustic Insider were the same guy!
1:57 Which is why using headphones that you are very familiar with is the best for 99.9% of people
amazing videos and same feelings :))
0:47 You got me laughing so hard man😂❤
sick shirt yuh
and on the 8th day, God created Bobby Owsinski to explain audio, and Klipsch for subwoofers
That dude just offers a course that’s a few hundred euros if I remember.
Can't you just use good headphones? seems like that would be the perfect way to avoid all acoustic problems..
Everyone has very different neuro-psychologic response to headphones. Some might imagine phantom landscapes, while others get claustrophobia.
But I agree that GOOD AND PRICY headphones are better than shitty room. On another hand, nothing beats 15" tops with sub for the test at 110db - you'll know exactly where your mixing lacks.
Most people have their favourite headphones. They've listened to many albums on them. Mine favourites are Shure SRH 440. They are simple and not very accurate, but comfortable and I managed to get mix to translate reasonably ok (apart from bass).
✨👏
⚡
just get Studio headphones bro
Nice video and definitely valid points, but: make great music first! Spending lots of money and time in technical stuff is really a pitfall. A shitty track in a perfectly optimized room is still a shitty track. Learn your tools and composition first, and then invest in making your tracks sound better. At least, that would be my advice.
BTW. Junkie XL (famous Hollywood-producer) doesn't care about acoustic treatment at all. And that's not because he can't afford it 😁
P.S. I've wasted 15 years thinking my music wasn't good enough and overcomplicating things. Last year I finally send a demo to a label, I got signed and released 10 tracks ever since. Just produced on my attic, without any treatment at all. Not ideal, and I'd really like to have an optimized studio once, but this also works. Until I am ready for the next step, but everything in its time.
Yeah and Deadmau5 has an entire room suspended from the floor in order to get the best acoustics.
@@shaverred1030 I'm not saying it's bad. It definitely isn't, and I also want to treat my studio at some point. But as a novice producer, I wouldn't start with that. Just make superb tracks first.
@@defactotechno9850 I'm actually agreeing with you. I'm saying that you can get good results with either. If deadmau5 and Junkie XL who use opposite approaches and achieve similar results you can too.
@@shaverred1030 In the end it's all about what sounds good 😀 The listener doesn't care what DAW, plugins or studio you're using. And in my experience you don't need much, when you know what you're doing 👍
subpak
Efe gt0
4
hayt Klk151t a la negra ha15y1
"Chapter 1: Acoustic. Skip" haha yep
That dude just offers a course that’s a few hundred euros if I remember.