I used to hate watching your videos with that rifle, because it was such a scattergun. I can't believe this is the same rifle! I am totally sold on the EC tuner brake.
My Rem 700 223 factory barrel best 5 shot groups @ 100 yds went from 5/8" down to 3/8" after installing a Harrells tuner/brake. 100% recommend these tuner/brakes for factory barrels :)
Nice video. I too have a Mossberg Predator but in 7mm PRC. I also have an EC Tumer for my 6.5 PRC. Your video was nice, and it did give people a taste of what a tuner can do and that you can get an inexpensive rifle to shoot well too. The rifle is better than most people give it credit for. The stock is designed well, and the trigger can be adjusted well too. Mine even came at 1.5 pounds from the factory needing no adjustment at all. I will be purchasing the second-generation EC tuner brake for my 7mm PRC and see if I can get a better group out of my current hunting load. I only purchased that rifle specifically to hunt with because of the skinny barrel. It's no range gun as quick as that barrel heats up. I often wait 3 to 5 minutes between shots when I work a load with that skinny barrel. Mirage is easy to come by with a rifle like that. I did enjoy your video. Thanks!
From my understanding of Eric’s tuner will need to be readjusted when the weather and elevation changes Not really repeatable shooting. No set and forget, I think.
@@north4961 Really? That is interesting. Reckon it does make sense. Though I wouldn't consider myself a marksman or a match shooter for sure, I have loads that are fantastic on one range day and poor on another. I typically call it a bad day on shooter. But what your proposing may be more of a variable than we might consider. Have a fantastic 4th. Salute Old Glory.
Hey Rob, Great video! I shoot alot of long range and found spectacular results on every thing from 338 lapua, 300 prc and even my AR's in 6.5 grendel and 6mm Arc.. I have found that when we are short on reloading materials it allows you to dial in factory ammo as well as reloads. Keep up the good work👍
For those on a budget, the Limbsaver Doughnut tuner that you move up and down on a barrel works! I took at Savage Pump in 30/30 that was shooting 3" groups and got it down to 3/4". You have to get used to the odd-looking attachment on the barrel but they work in reducing groups tremendously. The Limbsaver doughnuts are difficult to move up and down the barrel, which means that they stay put. I have a friend that just installed an EC Tuner /brake on a 308, and this rifle shoots 3/8" and smaller, great reduction in recoil, but like all muzzle breaks, you better be wearing ear protection.
Thanks for putting this together, I'm sold on that tuner. It would have been cool to have one 3 shot group with out the tuner, so you had a baseline reading first, then went changed it out and added the tuner. Either way great video.
Awesome, promising results. Is that rifle bedded, if it isn't I think that would make big difference, im guessing that shot in #8 wasn't pulled ass much as you might think. I've bedded a couple of missbergs and they shot great afterwards. It would be interesting to see how the ES's were effected by the tuner also.
I have had several rifles over the years with factory "plastic" stocks, and I ended up putting weight in the hollow portion of the stock ( cast lead bullets in an altoids tin, packed with rags to prevent rattles) adds about 1# and completely changes the balance/ feel, steadies the rifle and reduces recoil :) cost nothing and helps a cheap rifle shoot better (until you can upgrade the stock...)
The results seem to show the EC Tuner does allow you to change the point of impact. I'm wondering if the results are repeatable if you dialed them back ending at the starting point of zero? The EC Tuner also appears to incorporate a brake in it's design, do you find it also tames recoil? Thanks for another great video Rob!
Videos like this one can demonstrate that tuners work and in the long run can save money. It's cheaper to tune the rifle with a tuner or tuner brake than work a load up from scratch. I have one on my list of things to buy for my 6.5 PRC.
Good video. For me, being a perfectionist really sucks. I am just not happy until I can replicate 1/2" groups at 100. I hate that it bugs me so much but that or under is the "happy" point for me. Anyway, good video and keep 'em coming.
I agree with you that without repeatability these tuners are useless, and it’s not about being perfectionist, it’s about being practical. Also 3 shot groups don’t cut it, need a minimum of 5 shot groups. Cheers.
It really does work. If you had tuned a load that shot decent without the tuner and then used the tuner you would probably see even better groups... Which is what I did with my wife's .308, I took the best grouping sans tuner brake and then shot it with the tuner brake on the barrel... Setting "2" put 3 under a dime with room to spare.
On the ec tuner Does it cut down on the recoil at all. I have a 300 weatherby I tried to position the scope where I don't get punch in the eye brow from the recoil, so I was thinking about having to get a muzzle brake installed. Then I remember the ec tuner Video that Eric posted last year. Now. I want to know is does it also cut down on the recoil. I have three other 300 weatherby and this one has one heck of a recoil that needs taming a bit.
You are using a tuner for a purpose it was never intended to be used for, However; I have done similar testing with similar results. This does not mean what you think. If it ended up not working it would not be the fault of the tuner. Eric has really good information on how to properly use a tuner and it is the last thing you do for a load after everything else is done. Doesn't mean you can't use it like you did just doesn't mean it will be very successful. I have a gas gun in 308 win that was similar to your stated group size, (worked up load not random) at 100yds and it did bring it down to just under 1min using Eric's tuner break 18inch standard bbl. Just for information directed to new shooters who might get the wrong idea about a tuner break. They are not a miracle device for fixing loads .
We are just testing what is possible for the device. I'm sure better results could be achieved with load work up then tuning. But the point of this test was can I tune a random load. In a future video we are going to try to tune a known bad load. Just fun testing.
Rob, question for ya. I note your shooting hand position. Are you pulling the trigger by curling your finger or are you keeping a stiff finger and pulling your entire hand rearwards ? Thanks.
Why didn’t you shoot 5 round group at #10 setting, that was your best group? The only way to know if you didn’t have a lucky flyer that shrunk your group is to shoot a 5 or more shot group. Also position 0 and position 10 are not the same since the weight has shifted and it impacts the harmonics of the barrel differently.
Putting those stick on wheel weights in the forearm will help this gun tremendously! I use the RASS tuner/brake, Harrells tuner/brake, and the Exel Tuner. Tuners all work. Always start at the tuner screwed all the way to the rear, work out slowly. You are working with a bell curve when shooting groups. Groups will be large, then shrink down, then start to open back up. You may have an area where 6 different settings close together will shoot tiny groups, and you will refine the "tune" to the smallest group,
In theory. Firearms is one of those areas where you get what you pay for. You can buy a Savage F-Class Open rifle for 2 grand And a Borden custom for 7 grand. There are huge reasons for the cost difference. All tuners are NOT the same. All brakes are NOT the same. Hence...all tuner brakes are NOT the same, with all due respect.
It would be cool if Cortina would design a smaller diameter, shorter, 3-port version of the tuner brake designed for sporter hunting barrels. There is a vastly larger market in hunting rifles vs. competition rifles.
If I planned to shoot the gun often I would probably do more testing. Just wanted to prove that it could tune even a light Sporter barrel with no load development.
Right on it works on everything I have seen it tried on I have not used one but seems like all the stuff read or seen about is exactly what Eric designed it for
....WOW.....that tuner didn't prove anything more than a plain muzzle brake may have proved , load tuning would be WAY superior, along with bedding & floating all with a plain muzzle brake, then try the tuner, ....& then for repeatability in different weather conditions.
Why does no one post a video where they take a 5 or 10 shot group to really show if they are getting the results that they so badly imagine? Then once you found your "sweet spot", why not shoot another 5 or 10 groups to show that what you're doing is consistent? I have not been able to find anyone on the internet that does a true test that is repeatable. Why take only two shots and then say it's not shooting well. Maybe you pulled one and the other three shots would be stacked on top of each other? I'm still not convinced enough to go spend the money.
In this case, I have shot this rifle thousands of rounds and it rarely groups this well. I am comfortable saying the tuner significantly improved accuracy. Now would this gun do this everyday on this tuner setting; I doubt it. If I intended to use the tuner in a competitive environment I would test multiple times on different days. However this was not the point of this video or test. Maybe another time.
Wow, thanks for performing the test and fantastic performance.
I used to hate watching your videos with that rifle, because it was such a scattergun. I can't believe this is the same rifle! I am totally sold on the EC tuner brake.
Seems to be an effective device to tune a rifle!
Wow. That’s amazing. Very nice device.
Watched other channels and the results are similar. Thanks for sharing.
My Rem 700 223 factory barrel best 5 shot groups @ 100 yds went from 5/8" down to 3/8" after installing a Harrells tuner/brake.
100% recommend these tuner/brakes for factory barrels :)
Nice video. I too have a Mossberg Predator but in 7mm PRC. I also have an EC Tumer for my 6.5 PRC. Your video was nice, and it did give people a taste of what a tuner can do and that you can get an inexpensive rifle to shoot well too. The rifle is better than most people give it credit for. The stock is designed well, and the trigger can be adjusted well too. Mine even came at 1.5 pounds from the factory needing no adjustment at all. I will be purchasing the second-generation EC tuner brake for my 7mm PRC and see if I can get a better group out of my current hunting load. I only purchased that rifle specifically to hunt with because of the skinny barrel. It's no range gun as quick as that barrel heats up. I often wait 3 to 5 minutes between shots when I work a load with that skinny barrel. Mirage is easy to come by with a rifle like that. I did enjoy your video. Thanks!
Those results are incredible. Great work!
Great demonstration & information for all of us. Makes me consider one of these.
From my understanding of Eric’s tuner will need to be readjusted when the weather and elevation changes Not really repeatable shooting. No set and forget, I think.
@@north4961 Really? That is interesting. Reckon it does make sense. Though I wouldn't consider myself a marksman or a match shooter for sure, I have loads that are fantastic on one range day and poor on another. I typically call it a bad day on shooter. But what your proposing may be more of a variable than we might consider. Have a fantastic 4th. Salute Old Glory.
Hey Rob, Great video! I shoot alot of long range and found spectacular results on every thing from 338 lapua, 300 prc and even my AR's in 6.5 grendel and 6mm Arc.. I have found that when we are short on reloading materials it allows you to dial in factory ammo as well as reloads. Keep up the good work👍
You're not done! 😉 You need to revisit position 8-12 to verify. I really wanted to see what #12 would have done.
your Right !
For those on a budget, the Limbsaver Doughnut tuner that you move up and down on a barrel works! I took at Savage Pump in 30/30 that was shooting 3" groups and got it down to 3/4". You have to get used to the odd-looking attachment on the barrel but they work in reducing groups tremendously. The Limbsaver doughnuts are difficult to move up and down the barrel, which means that they stay put. I have a friend that just installed an EC Tuner /brake on a 308, and this rifle shoots 3/8" and smaller, great reduction in recoil, but like all muzzle breaks, you better be wearing ear protection.
Thanks for putting this together, I'm sold on that tuner. It would have been cool to have one 3 shot group with out the tuner, so you had a baseline reading first, then went changed it out and added the tuner. Either way great video.
I agree. Id liked to have seen that too.
I have the same gun in FDE. They shoot quite well for the price.
Good job man
I've seen several reviews with the Mossberg Patriot that were less than stellar. They sure look great in my opinion.
Depends on what you want and expect from a rifle. The stock is the biggest issue and reason I don't shoot the rifle more often.
Great Video.
Nice rifle sir
Awesome, promising results. Is that rifle bedded, if it isn't I think that would make big difference, im guessing that shot in #8 wasn't pulled ass much as you might think. I've bedded a couple of missbergs and they shot great afterwards.
It would be interesting to see how the ES's were effected by the tuner also.
I have had several rifles over the years with factory "plastic" stocks, and I ended up putting weight in the hollow portion of the stock ( cast lead bullets in an altoids tin, packed with rags to prevent rattles) adds about 1# and completely changes the balance/ feel, steadies the rifle and reduces recoil :) cost nothing and helps a cheap rifle shoot better (until you can upgrade the stock...)
The results seem to show the EC Tuner does allow you to change the point of impact. I'm wondering if the results are repeatable if you dialed them back ending at the starting point of zero? The EC Tuner also appears to incorporate a brake in it's design, do you find it also tames recoil?
Thanks for another great video Rob!
I have a Model 70 Winchester 30/06 that shoots 1/2 minute with the Boss tuner, they definitely work
Videos like this one can demonstrate that tuners work and in the long run can save money. It's cheaper to tune the rifle with a tuner or tuner brake than work a load up from scratch. I have one on my list of things to buy for my 6.5 PRC.
Good video. For me, being a perfectionist really sucks. I am just not happy until I can replicate 1/2" groups at 100. I hate that it bugs me so much but that or under is the "happy" point for me. Anyway, good video and keep 'em coming.
I agree with you that without repeatability these tuners are useless, and it’s not about being perfectionist, it’s about being practical. Also 3 shot groups don’t cut it, need a minimum of 5 shot groups. Cheers.
@@735Secure Agreed. 3 shot groups do not give you an accurate reading.
Ya the ect brake really works I have a couple of them! I think the poi shift is both the tuner and velocity increase. Great stuff
Nice job!
Thanks for the kind words. The tuner has worked well on everything I've tried it on. Thanks for making a fine product and great videos!
Thank you.
Mossberg patriot Predator 6.5 creedmoor with leupold scope and muzzle break is great for polarbear and walrus hunt and caribou hunt good and accurate
It really does work. If you had tuned a load that shot decent without the tuner and then used the tuner you would probably see even better groups... Which is what I did with my wife's .308, I took the best grouping sans tuner brake and then shot it with the tuner brake on the barrel... Setting "2" put 3 under a dime with room to spare.
Tooning
Need to see if over time and different weather conditions, it will continue to hold POI and group. Instead of jumping gun to gun.
What group are you shooting with patriot 6,5 creedmoor?
did you notice any reduced recoil with the new EC tunner?
I would like to have seen group one be a five shot group!
So what’s up with the 6arc ?
On the ec tuner
Does it cut down on the recoil at all.
I have a 300 weatherby I tried to position the scope where I don't get punch in the eye brow from the recoil, so I was thinking about having to get a muzzle brake installed.
Then I remember the ec tuner
Video that Eric posted last year.
Now. I want to know is does it also cut down on the recoil.
I have three other 300 weatherby and this one has one heck of a recoil that needs taming a bit.
Should. It's a tuner "brake".
You are using a tuner for a purpose it was never intended to be used for, However; I have done similar testing with similar results. This does not mean what you think. If it ended up not working it would not be the fault of the tuner. Eric has really good information on how to properly use a tuner and it is the last thing you do for a load after everything else is done. Doesn't mean you can't use it like you did just doesn't mean it will be very successful. I have a gas gun in 308 win that was similar to your stated group size, (worked up load not random) at 100yds and it did bring it down to just under 1min using Eric's tuner break 18inch standard bbl.
Just for information directed to new shooters who might get the wrong idea about a tuner break. They are not a miracle device for fixing loads .
We are just testing what is possible for the device. I'm sure better results could be achieved with load work up then tuning. But the point of this test was can I tune a random load. In a future video we are going to try to tune a known bad load. Just fun testing.
No baseline group without the tuner?
Need to try 7 and 9
Put an 8 column AB suppressors with a 5 inch harmonic and help the barrel stabelize.
Rob, question for ya. I note your shooting hand position. Are you pulling the trigger by curling your finger or are you keeping a stiff finger and pulling your entire hand rearwards ? Thanks.
I rest my hand on the trip and use the index finger for trigger pull
@@RobsReloading Thank you sir.
Look like this Tuner Brake balance the vibration of the barrel.
No more tuner brake videos please. I don't want to end "needing" up buying one. 😇
Whats the size on 8 without that 1 outlayer? Looks small
If I had to guess .20-ish. Those were stacked.
Why didn’t you shoot 5 round group at #10 setting, that was your best group? The only way to know if you didn’t have a lucky flyer that shrunk your group is to shoot a 5 or more shot group. Also position 0 and position 10 are not the same since the weight has shifted and it impacts the harmonics of the barrel differently.
Putting those stick on wheel weights in the forearm will help this gun tremendously! I use the RASS tuner/brake, Harrells tuner/brake, and the Exel Tuner. Tuners all work. Always start at the tuner screwed all the way to the rear, work out slowly. You are working with a bell curve when shooting groups. Groups will be large, then shrink down, then start to open back up. You may have an area where 6 different settings close together will shoot tiny groups, and you will refine the "tune" to the smallest group,
Harrells tuner brake $109, E C. Tuner brake $250 both do the same thing
In theory. Firearms is one of those areas where you get what you pay for. You can buy a Savage F-Class Open rifle for 2 grand And a Borden custom for 7 grand. There are huge reasons for the cost difference. All tuners are NOT the same. All brakes are NOT the same. Hence...all tuner brakes are NOT the same, with all due respect.
@@11mchristo ok lol
How the hell y0u get an idea of what group you are shooting if your only sending two rounds ???
youtubers who test muzzle tuners are always illiterate of statistics. this video proved nothing. next up, 1 round groups!
These work fantastic on gas guns.
Next step is on my grendel AR. I have a bunch of new projects to play with however so it may be a minute before the next Tuner video!
I'm in the middle of moving and can't do aby shooting, im jonesing. I need a new video lol.
How much is that ec brake cost
$200-250.
It would be cool if Cortina would design a smaller diameter, shorter, 3-port version of the tuner brake designed for sporter hunting barrels. There is a vastly larger market in hunting rifles vs. competition rifles.
If your barrel is threaded what difference does the diameter make?????
@@michaelficarro2591 sporter barrels are pencil thin. Would function the same but a smaller diameter brake would be more ideal
Test position 9 mate.
Is your rail steel or aluminum? What is the make and model of the rail?
@@carlmarks6145 not sure it came with the rifle!
@RobsReloading Thanks for responding. A small magnet placed on the rail could determine if it is steel or not. Have a great day!
@@carlmarks6145 haven’t shot the gun in a couple of years. I actually wouldn’t recommend the rifle. A lot of better options out there
This may have been mentioned before, but at the end maybe pull the break off and let us see what the gun shoots like with nothing on it.
Next test for the EC tuner will be on my 6.5G AR. Will shoot a group with the tuner on 0 before starting to tune.
Watch the Hornady podcast, "Your groups are too small". ... AKA you're wasting your time with less than 10-30 shots per "change".
Why would you change loads? Maybe you didn't work up a good load in the first place? Know your random load is a miracle
Try setting nine it may be even better never know
If I planned to shoot the gun often I would probably do more testing. Just wanted to prove that it could tune even a light Sporter barrel with no load development.
Right on it works on everything I have seen it tried on I have not used one but seems like all the stuff read or seen about is exactly what Eric designed it for
You said it cost $400
From what I'm seeing is that it probly isn't rhe gun. I bet the stock doesn't fit the shooter.
....WOW.....that tuner didn't prove anything more than a plain muzzle brake may have proved , load tuning would be WAY superior, along with bedding & floating all with a plain muzzle brake, then try the tuner, ....& then for repeatability in different weather conditions.
Why does no one post a video where they take a 5 or 10 shot group to really show if they are getting the results that they so badly imagine?
Then once you found your "sweet spot", why not shoot another 5 or 10 groups to show that what you're doing is consistent?
I have not been able to find anyone on the internet that does a true test that is repeatable.
Why take only two shots and then say it's not shooting well. Maybe you pulled one and the other three shots would be stacked on top of each other?
I'm still not convinced enough to go spend the money.
In this case, I have shot this rifle thousands of rounds and it rarely groups this well. I am comfortable saying the tuner significantly improved accuracy. Now would this gun do this everyday on this tuner setting; I doubt it. If I intended to use the tuner in a competitive environment I would test multiple times on different days. However this was not the point of this video or test. Maybe another time.
You are treating the gun like a lot lizard
An EC tuner brake on a Mossberg is the proverbial perfume on a turd.
As much as I love the guy Erik Cartina that's way to much money for a tuner😢
Too many variables
There is no statistical significance in this test. It was a waste of time.
Do you know are guys who reload doing their load development with this thing on the barrel and then tuning it for even better results.