It doesn't matter whether you buy the Triumph, the KTM, the Ducati the GS etc, you haven't bought the wrong bike, you've bought the bike that you wanted. Most of the bikes in this category are pretty damn good, and each one will be better at something than one of the others. Having said that I've just taken delivery of a 1250 GS Rallye, and they really are the best.
Hi Simon, really enjoyed this review! Triumph should be rightly proud of beating the GS in a number of areas... the problem is that they are beating a bike that was announced in 2018 and I suspect Triumph might not have very long in the sun before the rumoured 1300 boxers come around looking for a punch up!
I think they have about 12 months. My money is on BMW introducing a new GS (and RT) motor next year, to celebrate 100 years of the flat twin. I also have a sneaky feeling they'll ditch the Telelever front end and go with forks.
Small detail but I like how you moved the camera footage to the side and angled to present the specs on the right side on the screen… just like how the bike itself does it, well played.
Equally as good as a Gs, and in many ways, better. Now thats a bold thing to say knowing just how upset it will make some, I can see them spitting out their Starbucks. Will it outsell the Gs, probably not, snobbery will see to that, but I'm sure it will be a big seller for Triumph just like the 900. Just not too many I hope, part of why I've always loved the Tigers I've owned is when I park one up at a bike cafe there's not 10 others in the same carpark.
One of the best reviews I’ve seen. Would love a direct comparo of GSA and Rally Explorer driven side by side, although you answered quite a lot from memory - better to see both side by side especially for a lifetime bike. 👍🏽🏍
It's a boilerplate review, same as every other launch review from Portugal/Spain (where all the launches are). And it's the same as every other reviewer who was on that launch. All these reviews on launches are regurgitations of presentations the reviewers get the day before.
A great balanced review, were you highlighted the major changes, which must make the bike more flickable, the challenge has always been competing against a bike with are copyrighted low centre of gravity, so kudos to Triumph for building a new bike based more on it's smaller sibling, and a obviously strong shaft drive that controls the power inputs the shaft better than before, but the BMW 1300,1350,1400,1450,1500 saga will continue.
Best review I have heard yet as it answers all my questions as I have ordered a new Rally Explorer supposed to be getting it in April and it’s replacing my Tiger 800 XCa and I love it and I believe it’s better than the 900 Gt I mean tho 800 is better than the 900 😂
I think the key thing here is NOT to assume that you’ll have more fun on the 1200 than the 800 Tiger ! I’ve owned four 1200 and 1250 GS’s … over the six years since I sold my F800GS. (The F800GS was more playful and a little more fun than the bigger bikes ! I really loved it )
@@maxflight777 I’m not expecting to have more fun but that would be nice I was just saying that when The Rally is being reviewed it’s always on it’s off road ability but it’s the first time it has shown it’s on road presence and it doesn’t scrap the pegs 😂 but still can’t wait to get it
Nice. I have ordered one, Pay Deposit today, should receive it in June, I am in Hong Kong, and probably be 1 of if not the only Rally Rider here. so looking forward to showing it off.
Informative and in-depth review Simon. Nice job. I've been thinking of getting a "used" Multi Enduro for the 30ltr tank etc but I now might wait for these to arrive down here in OZ and take one for a squirt.. Have a nice day! From the Land of OZ.
Thanks Colin, but I really wouldn't say I can put a bike through its paces off-road! Definitely steady-away off-road - but as I say, I think that makes my opinion no less valid because confidence plays such an important part for the overwhelming majority of us off-road, I would say - especially on a £20k adventure bike.
Great Review Simon, i regularly tune in to your Bennetts reviews you give such great commentary when rocking those sweeping turns, A real talent mate' keep em coming, i have the 1290 SAS 2021 and am looking for a tourer as well and the Tiger GT may just do the job. for me Its all about the Bikes.
Really great review. Triumph's shaft looks like a real winner especially for continental japes. Can't quite see just how much more power/torque can be effectively used by the average fully loaded road and trail rider so not totally convinced by big numbers per se. All of these big bikes now seem to have varying degrees of excellent electronic suspension. Someone needs to do a really thorough comparison of the big Dukes, Beemers, KTMs, Triumphs and ATs re maintenance costs, parts (OEM and aftermarket) availability and very importantly, reliability. Which of these behemoths would you feel most comfortable riding across seriously isolated regions? My money's on the Triumph or the Honda. To my eyes, the new Rally's the most coherent looking big ADV on the market.
Mine arrives in April - haven’t ridden it yet so thankfully all the reviews are excellent. Never considered a GS but this one will sit well next to my Rocket TFC.
What a stunning looking bike! I have a 2017 1200 XRT, i love it. These new ones really do look the part, though i think my short legs aren't favorable for the rally versions! I am interested in the new T plane engine :-)
I know Simon is a way more experienced rider than me …. But my reaction to a tyre pressure warning would be to decelerate, roll to a safe place and stop (rather than squeezing the brakes ) !
Yes, I wouldn't *recommend* doing that - but it's rare to get a total blowout and instant deflation (at which point you wouldn't really need a TPS anyway!). It usually just signifies a slow puncture - but they're pretty rare in the front (never had one in 30+ years, etc) too, so the braking was just a little test to feel if there was any squirminess at the front. But yes, your advice is definitely better!
Thank you for navigating me through the myriad of options.. otherwise I'd be lost. How wonderful to see Triumph sticking it to the competition. Great review, thank you, Saint Simon.
Hi Simon, great review, I'm 6foot 6 and like you I like to push on now and again! Thinking Rally Pro for the size of me but concerned about 21 inch front wheel etc, you really think that the 21 is great for fast road riding? many thanks for all your reviews over the years, cheers Paul
Great review as always mate …are you saying that the rally pro can be ridden as hard as GT pro in the corners on road?( I love the look of rally pro but iam primarily a road rider)
WOW! How time flies when your are old. Only 3 weeks have past since I commented on this Triumph vlog, and I've gone a bought a 2017 R 1200 GS Rallye BMW in showroom condition and only 19k Klm on her. Have a GREAT Day. From the Land of OZ
No chance for two-up, soz. I'm pretty sure I was on a launch recently where it was expressly forbidden for liability reasons - BMW's K1600 launch, I think. Yes, I mention mpg in the written feature, not the video: "As for economy, Triumph claim “up to 248 miles” from the 20-litre Pro and “up to 372 miles” from the 30-litre Explorer. That would be a fuel economy figure of 56.4mpg. Triumph’s spec says their tested fuel economy is 55.4mpg. On the test ride we covered 176.2 miles at a trip measure of 41.5mpg on the Rally Explorer, with 109.4 miles remaining - 286 miles in total. The same distance left a GT Pro on the reserve light (assuming they were full when we set off in the morning; I checked the Rally Pro and it was brimmed). It’s safe to say the Explorer will run over 300 miles, but 350 will take some restrained riding. The Pros will be looking for filling stations around the 160 to 180-mile mark."
So that would mean that the KTM 1290 and BMW 1250 are less thirsty? Wow didn’t expect that! My ‘20 1290 SAR did an incredible 61 mpg (4.6 liter at 100 km) when commuting.
I wish the 1200 had an option for something like what Yamaha did with their YCC-S shift by wire system. YCC-S is still manual shifting, but absolutely no clutch necessary, even down to a full stop--a bit more primitive than Honda's DCT but a bit more sophisticated than your typical quick shifter. With YCC-S, the ECU handles the all shifting mechanics whenever I select the + or - on the thumb switch or toe shifter. On my FJR, it can shift way faster than a human can manually clutch it, and it never misses a gear in a critical situation. I have found it to be the next best thing to Honda's DCT as far as eliminating clutch fatigue.
Nice review :) I'm not seduced by the higher horse power of this and some bikes when it can only be achieved when revving the nuts off them, maybe because I've never been a sports bike fan (watch but don't ride); loads of torque is what does it for me so the GS is still ahead on the engine front for me (as is the KTM). p.s. hasn't the GS (and maybe some of the KTMs) had self levelling suspension (rear) and auto preload for some time?
Absolutely bang on.....100% agree. I’ve bought this up a number of times. For a non race track bike having big power so high in the revs is just not the correct shape power curve for 95% of people. Give me monster torque between 4000rpm and 6000/7000rpm and this is where the 1250gs scores big time. Now I do understand about gearing etc of higher revving engines but the peak torque number is still less than the Gs anyway. That wave of torque that you ride, on high torque engines in bikes is soooo nice. Plus mostly you are going to be at illegal speeds before you even reach the peak power, so if you ride round mostly at or near the speed limit UK and are not at full throttle at 9000rpm in this case, what difference does 140/150......200bhp make. It’s just a number
You're right but there are situations where that peak at higher revs would be ideal for an adventure tourer. Case in point, the western US. Distances are such that you can spend all day on the road and only see an occasional population center in the distance. Also, law enforcement tend to be few and far between. As far as I know, these days the LE you come across out west are much more interested in stopping drug couriers than speeders.
@@craigfinnegan8534 Surely long distances are all the more reason for a lower revving, more relaxed engine and ride...high speeds can still be achieved but without the revs.
Hi Simon…if you were to choose between tiger1200 and v4s for just Sunday early morning rides which one would you opt for (in a country where the climate is usually hot)
What an excellent review in a no stones left unturned sort of format 👍 ten out of ten for actually letting us experience the grunt of this new engine and for giving us your vibe on its vibes. I watched Motobobs review, he wasn't even sat on the bike whilst giving it and music replaced any live sound, very disappointing in comparison.
Motobob has explained why he does that. For some reason people stop watching when he starts to ride the bikes and the channel was affected in a negative way. He started another channel to show the riding parts but people still don’t seem that interested in those parts of the review.
@@aunoates6617 But I think that if you can give an intelligent review of the bike vlog style while you are riding it, without talking crap OR accidentally riding into the scenery, you’ve cracked it. I have been consistently impressed with the way that a dinosaur print journo like Simon has adapted to this medium :-).
I’ve ordered the Tiger 900 which is more than enough for me (94bhp) god only knows what 150 bhp feels like on an adventure bike. After test riding the rally pro I found the 21” front wheel a little ungainly but the brakes and comfort excellent. Glad I opted for the GT pro though..
Looks like a really good bike but since i am allergic to VIBRATIONS it might be what will keep me from switching my 1250GS for a Tiger. This is pretty much what every bike test rider says about it also so it seems like it could be very annoying.... And personally i prefer the higher Torque before the max power also... Will do a test ride when i get the chance though..
Am I a lost cause? Test rode a Tiger 1200 GT pro today and expected to be blown away. I've owned my ST 1050 for 12 years having decided I wanted one within 5 miles of trying a 2005 demo. My KTM adventure had the same effect and I've owned it for 4 years. Sadly the T1200 just seemed bland and didn't grab me. It was only when I rode part of the same route on the way home I realised the T1200 wasn't affected by the crappy road surface as the KTM was. But I enjoyed the lack of civility on the KTM. I have access to, and have ridden, another half dozen or so bikes where I got more physical feedback from each. Am I alone in missing feedback or is it a case of modern bikes are so polished I need to ride them more and be more nuanced to appreciate them? Next plan is a 1290 Test ride to see if that hits the spot can't see myself on a BMW GS but I want the seat comfort of the Sprint for miles and the engagement of the KTM 990. Any suggestions?
Nope - not sure about the grips... I don't think they usually do. But certainly the electronics can be set up to remain as you leave them (apart from ABS - I would imagine that will be engaged from a safety point of view). Or you can also set them up to return to a default if you like.
I had a go of a Tiger 900 with T plane crank. In my opinion it sodded up it's triple engine. I much prefer 120 degree triples. With a 120 degree triple , vibrations don't have to be controlled.
Great review Simon. I know Triumph have clearly set there sights on beating the GS/GSA. But if you had to choose between GT Explorer or V4S for a mix of enthusiastic Sundays in the Peak District and 2 up road touring, which would get your vote?
I love the MS, it's completely barking and civilised at the same time. The only thing would put me off is the tank range - it's just not enough for me, personally. I want 200 miles minimum, riding like a loon. Making the Pikes Peak is all very good, but I'd much rather have seen a Multistrada V4 S Adventure with a 30 litre tank. The GT Explorer is good - I prefer a higher seat; at 870mm I was still a bit 'slumped' on it. And the motor can't live with the V4. And it hasn't got the ground clearance. but it *has* got a big tank. Blimey, I'm glad I don't have the funds to have make the choice :-)
@@writestuffmedia I can live without the range as it’s good to be able to blame the need for fuel as the reason I need to get off every hour rather than my ageing bones 😂. I’m just under 6ft tall but with a long body and short legs so I ended up putting the MS on the lowest setting on a test ride. I have a V4S full on order but this is a once in a lifetime, Happy 50th birthday present to myself purchase and I really do prefer shaft so I almost waited for the Tiger to compare but in the end I got annoyed waiting for a bike that got unveiled at the NEC last November and decided by the time I get to ride it and order whichever one I’ll miss most of this summer before it turns up. Why do they leave such a big gap between reveal and real? And after riding the MS… it was just “wow, where do I sign”.
Great video, well done. One question and one conclusion. Question, they solve the heat issue from engine than the others tigers, especially the previous 1200. And the conclusion if you want to sell a bike and sell good, and you know that you are behind BMW, DUCATI, KTM maybe and Honda with AFRICA, you must lower the prices because some hundreds cheaper than the GS and all others can't help you.
As we all acknowledge the end of the internal combustion engine as we know it is coming to the end of its life, it’s great to see all the major manufacturers are still producing stonking bikes with something for everyone and probably better than they have ever been in terms of equipment and range choice. Reckon this is going to take a lot of sales from BMW GS’s. Be interesting to see how it holds up to a couple of UK winters.
Just wanted to clarify the suspension thing: on the 2017-2018 s1000rr, once you adjust preload (which is manual) , you've to go through a calibration procedure on the side stand so the bike gets a new "zero point" of sorts. Bmw is a little cagey about what that does, but it does adjust the damping range/semi active behaviour according to the preload change it measures on the side stand. Pretty sophisticated stuff and with a fantastic range of adjustability. That said this suspension, at least on the adjustability front, is leaps and bounds ahead of what bmw offers on the GS 1250, which is literally 2/3 modes for damping and an auto mode for preload. So, presumably similar functionality but a little pathetic on the adjustability features available to the user.
So to answer your question, no, damping characteristics changing according to a self adjusting preload is not entirely unique. I suppose ktm also has a similar algorithm, and the ohlins ec2 is on a different league altogether but for a totally different application.
@@greyanaroth Nice one, thank you for clarifying - yes, I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case on the latest round of more sophisticated semi-active systems; but I've not heard it mentioned it before.
@@writestuffmedia from what I understand, one should calibrate the semi active stuff post a preload change since, if you think back to "old school" Allen and flathead screw adjusters, you've to redo your damping post a preload change since the load transference completely changes. Usually, in real world scenario, you may have to add some rebound damping to account for the spring being more, ah, springy due to more load going through it.
And the semi active stuff is essentially motorized potentiometers adjust your damping as per whatever algorithm is programmed viz what the sensors are reading.
The outtake: "How the hell you made that bridge".... Simon: "Ha ha ha, sorry, that's not my normal thing".... really? Simon? Shall we ask Mufga about 'your normal thing'? Hmmm? Seriously though, that's a fantastically comprehensive review and throws up yet another possible addition to the return-to-Blighty shopping list. GT Pro or Explorer looking a potential front-runner, though still tenterhooks for a (hopefully equally comprehensive) MG V100 Mandello review in a few months
@@writestuffmedia I would definitely make you my choice to attend that launch.... or Michael (especially if he did it all in his Fast Show persona) or John Milbank. Or Michael Neeves (he's VERY good, isn't he?). Or maybe Sportsbikeshop would release Mufga for a nostalgia trip?
Had a KTM1290 and an older r1200GS. The bimmer was a tank with insufficient power .The KTM was not a good shifter without sw upgrade and was very vibby and abrupt at 6000 and above - power, but not fun power. Just purchased a Triumph 1200 GT explorer and hope this is powerful enough with an emphasis on comfort. Had many Harley's and you have spend $40k and then another $40k to make them go.
Just a reminder, that the GS is 106 ft/lb at 6,250 and 134HP at 7,750 👍 I love the Triumph … and would be tempted to swap my R1250GS HP for one…. But it’s hard to buy a slower, heavier bike….and the BMW dealer pampers me…. So its looking unlikely.
Hi Simon, nice review as always - however, vibration and engine heat have been plagued the outgoing Tiger 1200. I wonder how these two compare. And, do you think it´s a trend to introduce vibration for producing a more racy, sportier feeling (which it doesn´t do to me at all btw) or is it purely a result of technical necessities due to EURO5? That no one mentioned any problems with vibrations is logical to me as there is a commercial interest not to upset a vendor of a bike with a review that clearly(!) brings up negatives. Stay safe
Using the T-plane crank to deliberately introduce 'vibration' - or character - was done entirely to add some traction to the Tigers off-road and give them a bit of engine feel on road. It's not a performance thing because it doesn't add performance, and it's not a Euro5 thing. Makes no difference to emissions (well, it does, because the Tiger runs less valve overlap than the Speed Triple, so it's actually cleaner - but that's not why Triumph did it). I know Triumph are aware of the vibes as a potential issue - top gear is an overdrive to help keep the revs in a more manageable zone when cruising. But they're confident they won't be a problem for most (all?) riders.
@@writestuffmedia so all in all it has to be understood like the sound generator in some e-cars in order to give the sound & feel of a combustion engine and by that a better feeling of what the engine does? Cos how can vibrations generate traction? Stay safe
Enthusiastic Amateur - about my skill level! Excellent review though I think the 900 version a better fit for me with less weight and a more appropriate amount of power.
Firstly thanks for the review, I really wanted this bike to be top of the pile but noticed a few obvious things. 1. Weight compared to GS - comparing similar models on the manufacturer websites Triumph Rally pro 249kg , bmw r1250 GS 249kg both wet weight. What models are being compared to give the 17kg difference you mentioned? GSA compared to Rally explorer has the BMW 7kg heavier but the triumph doesn’t have rear pannier frames as standard so there must be 4kg there which would mean only a few kg between them. Again not 17kg. 2. Power curves - I watched your entire video which has a lot of POV filming. Not once do I see you at full throttle 9000rpm or 9000rpm at all. Why does it matter what max power something makes on the road, you never use it. High power output near to max rpm is for the track. Most of your filming showed you at between 4000-6000rpm once or twice slightly higher. For sure the BMW is super strong here. As you mention. 3. Price - I have spec’d a Rally explorer and a GSA to Black for the Triumph and triple black for the BMW. I added rear pannier frames to the Triumph to get same as BMW and get just over £19500 for the Triumph and £19300 for the BMW. Now the bmw doesn’t have blind spot warning so that should be noted. Point is they are so close on price that it doesn’t appear worthy of Triumph making a thing of it. Plus should the Triumph not be considerably cheaper than the BMW, it is manufactured in a country, Thailand, with I’m guessing lower manufacturing costs than Europe, with the BMW 1250 assembled in Europe if Triumph held the same profit margins as BMW surely it should be cheaper. 4. The BMW was released in 2018, so all Triumph had to do was buy a couple, benchmark them and improve it, for a bike released 4 years after its target bike, it should be considerably better shouldn’t it. I’m slightly confused at what Triumph have made. If you want a big dirt orientated bike buy the ktm, if you want belting top end power and a road bias buy a Ducati (though expensive) or you could go KTM again. Or if you want stonking torque a great all round bike buy the BMW.....I’m not sure Triumph have been very original here aside from throwing a triple at it, I guess if somebody is totally anti BMW it gives an alternative but is it going to pull somebody away from a BMW that is happy with the brand. Triumph had a golden opportunity to do that, have they succeeded? Not sure about that. 5 looks - well that’s a personal thing isn’t it 🤔 what one person thinks ace, somebody else thinks ugly, most people like the Ducati multi..... personally I think it looks like the eagle off Sesame Street 🤪
@Simon Hargreaves Simon, explaining the firing order of a t-plane is easy. How does a bass player count a three-quarter bar? One, two, and, three. Kind regards
Thank you Simon, a very thorough review!, remember you from the PB days!, haven’t ridden for 15 years, now considering one of these, could I put road tyres on the rally rims?
Fuel cons: Triumph claim “up to 248 miles” from the 20-litre Pro and “up to 372 miles” from the 30-litre Explorer. That would be a fuel economy figure of 56.4mpg. Triumph’s spec says their tested fuel economy is 55.4mpg. On the test ride we covered 176.2 miles at a trip measure of 41.5mpg on the Rally Explorer, with 109.4 miles remaining - 286 miles in total. The same distance left a GT Pro on the reserve light (assuming they were full when we set off in the morning; I checked the Rally Pro and it was brimmed). It’s safe to say the Explorer will run over 300 miles, but 350 will take some restrained riding. The Pros will be looking for filling stations around the 160 to 180-mile mark. Top speed: 148bhp on a bike with this aero this should be good for around 160mph, but it's been a long time since anyone in the media measured top speeds of test bikes. A KTM1190 making 134bhp would do a measured 154mph, so unless Triumph have limited the Tiger's top speed (and top gear is an overdrive, so assuming it will actually pull peak revs in top) then over 150mph should be possible. Weight depends on configuration: without luggage, the figures are: GT: 240kg GT Pro: 245kg GT Expl: 255kg Rally Pro: 249kg Rally Expl: 261kg
Thanks Simon, great review. I'm a lapsed biker, looking to get back to it, when funds allow. Tiger is definitely a bike I'm aspiring to.Keen to keep running costs down. How does fuel consumption and service costs compare to the competition? Also will be mainly using for the road, offroad for extra fun as not experienced. Like the Rally Explorer, for style and standard kit, if my little legs will take it. Is there any choice in stickier tyres for the bigger wheel, when time to change, if your doing maybe 80% / 20% road to offroad use? Cheers Bill
Thanks Simon, loved that review. How crazy would it be to do a track day on the Tiger ( I guess really, I’m trying to asses the handling in relation to other sports tourers )?
I honestly think on the track, even at a modest pace, ground clearance on the GT models (900 and 1200) would be limited - they both drag the pegs fairly easily (but it's all relative - back off a fraction and you'll be fine). I got the pegs down on the Rally too - and with 20mm more ride height than the GT, it shows how low it is! But in terms of handling, it'd be fine. I've seen lots of 800 and old 120p Tigers on track before.
Great review thanks Simon. I own a 2018 Tiger 1200 XCA - I'm undecided about upgrading to the new model.. is it worth it? I mainly ride on roads with the odd excursion off road. I love the triple and not so sure about the T-Plane change.
No, Triumph only provided the Rally Pro at the off-road centre. You probably could take the GT off-road in the same way you can stick off-road tyres on a V-Strom 1050 and take it off-road, but 19in front, less suspension travel, cast wheels... it's not really built for it. The Rally is a better road bike than the GT is an off-road bike, I would say. In some ways it's a better road bike than the GT (more ground clearance, I prefer the steering agility and the riding position suits me better).
Excellent video, thanks for sharing your opinion on what is good and bad! I was wondering just handling wise, would you prefer a vs4 or the tiger 1200??? Thanks
Excellent review and observations. I did see on another review the peg scraping which was commented on. Given the height of the bike does it mean the pegs are really low or is it just a testament to how hard you can ride them?
Very very good. Changes at a nice, positive rate, for me - not too abrupt or sudden, but not too lazy either. Never had a double tap or a missed shift, up or down.
I just couldn't get my eyes off the scaffolding the mirrors are hanging on on the Explorer version. Love the bike but that puts me right off. What's the point of paying for that radar option if those nasty mirrors would be the first thing I'd change. That would save some weight as well🤣 not to mention a replacement costs when it will break off after falling down. The mirrors doesn't even fold. And I like the option of a bigger tank. I don't even use that radar function in my car because it annoys me. At least they could integrate it in the mirrors not under. Never have I ever felt the need for the rear facing radar while riding off-road on a 21" wheel🤣And a size of that thing on the back side🙄 Rear wheel slip regulation would be much more appropriateed by the offroad riders than that radar. If they went after 1250 GSA with the Rally Explorer then why not the option for 19 inch spoked wheel? I'd like to see a percentage figure of riders who'll take this particular model hardcore off roading. Go for the sales numbers not the opinions. What's the need to reinvent the wheel? I had to point it out because most likely I'll buy the bike🤣 or perhaps wait for a 30L tank version of the rally pro with adjustable traction control🤔😋 that would be a complete package for me😍
Hi Simon - I know you were comparing against the 1250 gs and the bottom.end grunt etc. But how does the torque at the bottom end stack up against the old 1200gs (I'm guessing a lot closer / similar / or even better?!) thanks. Great review by the way!!!
I don't think there's anything to be too bothered about in terms of it being an actual problem in the course of normal riding! I was pushing on a fair bit and I like a good peg scrape so could probably have done it a bit less if I held the bike up a bit more mid corner. I remember scraping the life out of the V-Strom 1050 (also on 19in front) and Guzzi's V85TT, but never decked the Africa Twin out, or KTMs (I don't think), or the GS come to that (although pretty sure my colleague, Martin Fitz-Gibbons, did a bit of that on more than one occasion).
It's in the ball-park - they all vary a lot depending on riding style tbh - one rider can get over 50mpg, another nearer 40mpg. In the real world I never bother thinking about mpg as a rule, just how far I can get between fuel stops. That's why I like 30 litre tanks, too! I did some fuel test on an R1250 GS when i came out a few years ago - got 55.5mpg riding sensibly. On another test with a 1250 GS A, when I was riding it with my brain out, it averaged 40.9mpg. A Ducati 1260 Enduro I had on test at the same time did 37mpg. The Tiger was doing 41.5mpg on the launch, but that was also riding pretty hard. Triumph claim something like 55mpg, but I reckon 50 would be do-able with a bit of care.
It's interesting looking at the weights of these bikes. They are not as light as you have been saying. Comparing my 2015 r1200gs to the gt pro which is 245kg wet my gs is only 238kg. The r1250 gs is 248kg so only 3kg difference there with 86cc extra capacity.
I cant get my head around why Triumph want to make a triple sound like a twin. Build a twin! I rode the 900 with the intention of buying one after owning A Tiger 800 (which I loved). I was ready to order. I thought it was terrible. I bought a Multistrada 950 which I thought was smoother. Now they have done the same with the 1200. Its a pity that the couldn't make the GTs normal firing order and the XRs cross plane. It would widen the market. Other than that the 1200 looks great.
I always worry about the finish on Triumphs, I noticed a few quite young/low mileage bikes with poor corrosion on fasteners, swing arms etc. has this improved?
Pas de problème :-) Le moteur et la puissance ont la même sensation car ils sont identiques, et le dash, screen et les switches sont tous les mêmes, donc non, pas une énorme différence. Mais le châssis, la direction et l'ergonomie sont différents. La Rallye est grand et vous êtes assis haut, le GT est plus bas. La GT est la meilleure moto de route pure mais la Rallye est ma préférée. Excusez mon français!
Thanks Terry - the T-plane isn't like a crossplane - well, in the sense it's a x-plane crank with one arm of the X missing. And it feels very different. Actually, now you mention I remember a Triumph engineer at the 900 launch saying it was the x-plane crank that gave them the idea of messing with firing intervals and crank pin arrangements. So, in a way, you're right!
Amazing review of a very promising bike (my dream bike). Watch out for portugese bridges tho, they come accross way faster than expected (without warning even)!
Indeed! The way the roads are laid out - the bend radii, the way they string complex S-bends together - is subtly different to Spanish roads. I find it easier to *read* roads in Spain and France than in Portugal - it's not that they do unexpected things, it's just they seem to *flow* into each other a bit differently. Hard to put my finger on it.
Thanks for your nice presentation👍..finally a kardanl competition...love my boxer but this one is worth a test ride. Hopefully, for Triumph, the r1300gs won't be too good. Does this have an anti-dive function like the new KTM? Greetings from southern Germany
The mirrors on all the models except the Explorer versions are still the same as my 2012 Triumph 1200 Explorer. They could have changed those easily enough.
As Triumph pointed out, the 1200 Rally is 10% heavier and 30-40% more performance than the 900. It's shaft drive, so that's a point of difference depending on your preference. And the clocks are nicer imo :-) I'd definitely get a ride on one!
It doesn't matter whether you buy the Triumph, the KTM, the Ducati the GS etc, you haven't bought the wrong bike, you've bought the bike that you wanted. Most of the bikes in this category are pretty damn good, and each one will be better at something than one of the others. Having said that I've just taken delivery of a 1250 GS Rallye, and they really are the best.
Well said.
You're right. I'd have any of them but just happen to have a 1250.
Well said. Except that last part 😅
Terrific review mate, thank you. Great to see the Rally Explorer ride, waiting on mine to arrive & it looks like I'll be more than happy.
Hi Simon, really enjoyed this review! Triumph should be rightly proud of beating the GS in a number of areas... the problem is that they are beating a bike that was announced in 2018 and I suspect Triumph might not have very long in the sun before the rumoured 1300 boxers come around looking for a punch up!
I think they have about 12 months. My money is on BMW introducing a new GS (and RT) motor next year, to celebrate 100 years of the flat twin.
I also have a sneaky feeling they'll ditch the Telelever front end and go with forks.
@@writestuffmedia Until BMW gets really impressive and stops profiteering off of parts, I'll take the Tiger.
@@writestuffmedia I love the GS and telelever suspension, but I mostly use my ADV bike off-road, so I’ll stick with my lighter Tiger 900 Rally Pro.
@@writestuffmedia I feel like the telelever is what makes the big GS the big GS though...
@@craigfinnegan8534 although, I wouldn't say Truimph is an angel in the "price gouge for parts" department either.
Small detail but I like how you moved the camera footage to the side and angled to present the specs on the right side on the screen… just like how the bike itself does it, well played.
Equally as good as a Gs, and in many ways, better. Now thats a bold thing to say knowing just how upset it will make some, I can see them spitting out their Starbucks. Will it outsell the Gs, probably not, snobbery will see to that, but I'm sure it will be a big seller for Triumph just like the 900. Just not too many I hope, part of why I've always loved the Tigers I've owned is when I park one up at a bike cafe there's not 10 others in the same carpark.
GS is as comman as Sheep..
@philipbateman7885 GS is a clitoris bike, every c***s got one!
One of the best reviews I’ve seen. Would love a direct comparo of GSA and Rally Explorer driven side by side, although you answered quite a lot from memory - better to see both side by side especially for a lifetime bike. 👍🏽🏍
It's a boilerplate review, same as every other launch review from Portugal/Spain (where all the launches are). And it's the same as every other reviewer who was on that launch. All these reviews on launches are regurgitations of presentations the reviewers get the day before.
A great balanced review, were you highlighted the major changes, which must make the bike more flickable, the challenge has always been competing against a bike with are copyrighted low centre of gravity, so kudos to Triumph for building a new bike based more on it's smaller sibling, and a obviously strong shaft drive that controls the power inputs the shaft better than before, but the BMW 1300,1350,1400,1450,1500 saga will continue.
Best review I have heard yet as it answers all my questions as I have ordered a new Rally Explorer supposed to be getting it in April and it’s replacing my Tiger 800 XCa and I love it and I believe it’s better than the 900 Gt I mean tho 800 is better than the 900 😂
Exactly the same boat here, previous bike and everything. Can't wait!
@@alextaylor5983 I don’t think we’ll be disappointed it can’t come quick enough 🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏴🏴🏴🏴
I think the key thing here is NOT to assume that you’ll have more fun on the 1200 than the 800 Tiger !
I’ve owned four 1200 and 1250 GS’s … over the six years since I sold my F800GS. (The F800GS was more playful and a little more fun than the bigger bikes ! I really loved it )
@@maxflight777 I’m not expecting to have more fun but that would be nice I was just saying that when The Rally is being reviewed it’s always on it’s off road ability but it’s the first time it has shown it’s on road presence and it doesn’t scrap the pegs 😂 but still can’t wait to get it
Nice. I have ordered one, Pay Deposit today, should receive it in June, I am in Hong Kong, and probably be 1 of if not the only Rally Rider here. so looking forward to showing it off.
Best review I’ve seen 👍🏻 all the best
Informative and in-depth review Simon. Nice job. I've been thinking of getting a "used" Multi Enduro for the 30ltr tank etc but I now might wait for these to arrive down here in OZ and take one for a squirt..
Have a nice day!
From the Land of OZ.
Hi Simon one of the few test riders out there that can put the Triumph Tiger 1200 through it.s paces. On road and off road . Cheers ..!!
Thanks Colin, but I really wouldn't say I can put a bike through its paces off-road! Definitely steady-away off-road - but as I say, I think that makes my opinion no less valid because confidence plays such an important part for the overwhelming majority of us off-road, I would say - especially on a £20k adventure bike.
Great Review Simon, i regularly tune in to your Bennetts reviews you give such great commentary when rocking those sweeping turns, A real talent mate' keep em coming, i have the 1290 SAS 2021 and am looking for a tourer as well and the Tiger GT may just do the job. for me Its all about the Bikes.
Good review. Very fair having ridden both the GS 1250, this, and owning a 2022 Tiger 900 Rally Pro.
Really great review. Triumph's shaft looks like a real winner especially for continental japes. Can't quite see just how much more power/torque can be effectively used by the average fully loaded road and trail rider so not totally convinced by big numbers per se. All of these big bikes now seem to have varying degrees of excellent electronic suspension.
Someone needs to do a really thorough comparison of the big Dukes, Beemers, KTMs, Triumphs and ATs re maintenance costs, parts (OEM and aftermarket) availability and very importantly, reliability. Which of these behemoths would you feel most comfortable riding across seriously isolated regions? My money's on the Triumph or the Honda.
To my eyes, the new Rally's the most coherent looking big ADV on the market.
Mine arrives in April - haven’t ridden it yet so thankfully all the reviews are excellent.
Never considered a GS but this one will sit well next to my Rocket TFC.
I am no fan boy, but if you haven’t tried a GS you will be surprised how good it is. It’s a 60K units a year sales model for a reason.
Not quite sure where to start with this ? ..
What a stunning looking bike! I have a 2017 1200 XRT, i love it. These new ones really do look the part, though i think my short legs aren't favorable for the rally versions! I am interested in the new T plane engine :-)
Getting a 2018 one for $15k
I know Simon is a way more experienced rider than me
…. But my reaction to a tyre pressure warning would be to decelerate, roll to a safe place and stop (rather than squeezing the brakes ) !
Yes, I wouldn't *recommend* doing that - but it's rare to get a total blowout and instant deflation (at which point you wouldn't really need a TPS anyway!). It usually just signifies a slow puncture - but they're pretty rare in the front (never had one in 30+ years, etc) too, so the braking was just a little test to feel if there was any squirminess at the front.
But yes, your advice is definitely better!
Thank you for navigating me through the myriad of options.. otherwise I'd be lost.
How wonderful to see Triumph sticking it to the competition.
Great review, thank you, Saint Simon.
It's a lot to get our heads around! I kept getting the names mixed up.
Hi Simon, great review, I'm 6foot 6 and like you I like to push on now and again! Thinking Rally Pro for the size of me but concerned about 21 inch front wheel etc, you really think that the 21 is great for fast road riding? many thanks for all your reviews over the years, cheers Paul
One of the clearest and most complete reaction ive seen on any bike, so clearly i'd subscribed......😳 😉
Great review as always mate …are you saying that the rally pro can be ridden as hard as GT pro in the corners on road?( I love the look of rally pro but iam primarily a road rider)
Brilliant and comprehensive review. Many thanks. Think I want one now!
WOW!
How time flies when your are old.
Only 3 weeks have past since I commented on this Triumph vlog, and I've gone a bought a 2017 R 1200 GS Rallye BMW in showroom condition and only 19k Klm on her.
Have a GREAT Day.
From the Land of OZ
Great review, as always Simon! What kind of mpg did you get? Did you get the opportunity to test it 2-up?
No chance for two-up, soz. I'm pretty sure I was on a launch recently where it was expressly forbidden for liability reasons - BMW's K1600 launch, I think.
Yes, I mention mpg in the written feature, not the video:
"As for economy, Triumph claim “up to 248 miles” from the 20-litre Pro and “up to 372 miles” from the 30-litre Explorer. That would be a fuel economy figure of 56.4mpg. Triumph’s spec says their tested fuel economy is 55.4mpg.
On the test ride we covered 176.2 miles at a trip measure of 41.5mpg on the Rally Explorer, with 109.4 miles remaining - 286 miles in total. The same distance left a GT Pro on the reserve light (assuming they were full when we set off in the morning; I checked the Rally Pro and it was brimmed).
It’s safe to say the Explorer will run over 300 miles, but 350 will take some restrained riding. The Pros will be looking for filling stations around the 160 to 180-mile mark."
So that would mean that the KTM 1290 and BMW 1250 are less thirsty? Wow didn’t expect that! My ‘20 1290 SAR did an incredible 61 mpg (4.6 liter at 100 km) when commuting.
Another excellent review matey….just waiting for a test ride….
Thanks a lot Simon, the best review I have see ❗❗
I wish the 1200 had an option for something like what Yamaha did with their YCC-S shift by wire system. YCC-S is still manual shifting, but absolutely no clutch necessary, even down to a full stop--a bit more primitive than Honda's DCT but a bit more sophisticated than your typical quick shifter. With YCC-S, the ECU handles the all shifting mechanics whenever I select the + or - on the thumb switch or toe shifter. On my FJR, it can shift way faster than a human can manually clutch it, and it never misses a gear in a critical situation. I have found it to be the next best thing to Honda's DCT as far as eliminating clutch fatigue.
Nice review :)
I'm not seduced by the higher horse power of this and some bikes when it can only be achieved when revving the nuts off them, maybe because I've never been a sports bike fan (watch but don't ride); loads of torque is what does it for me so the GS is still ahead on the engine front for me (as is the KTM).
p.s. hasn't the GS (and maybe some of the KTMs) had self levelling suspension (rear) and auto preload for some time?
🔝spot on.
Absolutely bang on.....100% agree. I’ve bought this up a number of times. For a non race track bike having big power so high in the revs is just not the correct shape power curve for 95% of people. Give me monster torque between 4000rpm and 6000/7000rpm and this is where the 1250gs scores big time. Now I do understand about gearing etc of higher revving engines but the peak torque number is still less than the Gs anyway. That wave of torque that you ride, on high torque engines in bikes is soooo nice. Plus mostly you are going to be at illegal speeds before you even reach the peak power, so if you ride round mostly at or near the speed limit UK and are not at full throttle at 9000rpm in this case, what difference does 140/150......200bhp make. It’s just a number
Agreed. Both Triumph and Ducati don’t get this.
You're right but there are situations where that peak at higher revs would be ideal for an adventure tourer. Case in point, the western US. Distances are such that you can spend all day on the road and only see an occasional population center in the distance. Also, law enforcement tend to be few and far between. As far as I know, these days the LE you come across out west are much more interested in stopping drug couriers than speeders.
@@craigfinnegan8534 Surely long distances are all the more reason for a lower revving, more relaxed engine and ride...high speeds can still be achieved but without the revs.
Excellent comprehensive definitive intelligent as well as layman review, well done 👍✌️☮️✅
Hi Simon…if you were to choose between tiger1200 and v4s for just Sunday early morning rides which one would you opt for (in a country where the climate is usually hot)
What an excellent review in a no stones left unturned sort of format 👍 ten out of ten for actually letting us experience the grunt of this new engine and for giving us your vibe on its vibes. I watched Motobobs review, he wasn't even sat on the bike whilst giving it and music replaced any live sound, very disappointing in comparison.
Motobob has explained why he does that. For some reason people stop watching when he starts to ride the bikes and the channel was affected in a negative way. He started another channel to show the riding parts but people still don’t seem that interested in those parts of the review.
@@aunoates6617 But I think that if you can give an intelligent review of the bike vlog style while you are riding it, without talking crap OR accidentally riding into the scenery, you’ve cracked it. I have been consistently impressed with the way that a dinosaur print journo like Simon has adapted to this medium :-).
@@fat_biker I agree but unless you’re doing it in a skilled and exciting way, like Chris Northover, viewing seems to drop off.
@@aunoates6617 Funny how there are dozens of Moto vloggers out there doing just that and their channels are growing. TMF, LCR and TP1 to name a few.
@@aunoates6617 ‘Exciting’ on the road isn’t always big or clever.
I’ve ordered the Tiger 900 which is more than enough for me (94bhp) god only knows what 150 bhp feels like on an adventure bike.
After test riding the rally pro I found the 21” front wheel a little ungainly but the brakes and comfort excellent. Glad I opted for the GT pro though..
Looks like a really good bike but since i am allergic to VIBRATIONS it might be what will keep me from switching my 1250GS for a Tiger. This is pretty much what every bike test rider says about it also so it seems like it could be very annoying.... And personally i prefer the higher Torque before the max power also...
Will do a test ride when i get the chance though..
Am I a lost cause? Test rode a Tiger 1200 GT pro today and expected to be blown away. I've owned my ST 1050 for 12 years having decided I wanted one within 5 miles of trying a 2005 demo. My KTM adventure had the same effect and I've owned it for 4 years. Sadly the T1200 just seemed bland and didn't grab me. It was only when I rode part of the same route on the way home I realised the T1200 wasn't affected by the crappy road surface as the KTM was. But I enjoyed the lack of civility on the KTM. I have access to, and have ridden, another half dozen or so bikes where I got more physical feedback from each. Am I alone in missing feedback or is it a case of modern bikes are so polished I need to ride them more and be more nuanced to appreciate them? Next plan is a 1290 Test ride to see if that hits the spot can't see myself on a BMW GS but I want the seat comfort of the Sprint for miles and the engagement of the KTM 990. Any suggestions?
Great review as always Simon! Do the electronics all reset after switching of the engine? I.e heated grips / seat , engine modes, ect, ect?
Nope - not sure about the grips... I don't think they usually do. But certainly the electronics can be set up to remain as you leave them (apart from ABS - I would imagine that will be engaged from a safety point of view). Or you can also set them up to return to a default if you like.
Cheers pal.
I had a go of a Tiger 900 with T plane crank. In my opinion it sodded up it's triple engine. I much prefer 120 degree triples. With a 120 degree triple , vibrations don't have to be controlled.
Really good review Simon , informative and fun 👍
According to me that exhaust note is intoxicating , nice review and vid , thanks
awesome honest review thanks Simon. ordered and collecting soon
Great review Simon. I know Triumph have clearly set there sights on beating the GS/GSA. But if you had to choose between GT Explorer or V4S for a mix of enthusiastic Sundays in the Peak District and 2 up road touring, which would get your vote?
I love the MS, it's completely barking and civilised at the same time. The only thing would put me off is the tank range - it's just not enough for me, personally. I want 200 miles minimum, riding like a loon.
Making the Pikes Peak is all very good, but I'd much rather have seen a Multistrada V4 S Adventure with a 30 litre tank.
The GT Explorer is good - I prefer a higher seat; at 870mm I was still a bit 'slumped' on it. And the motor can't live with the V4. And it hasn't got the ground clearance. but it *has* got a big tank.
Blimey, I'm glad I don't have the funds to have make the choice :-)
@@writestuffmedia I can live without the range as it’s good to be able to blame the need for fuel as the reason I need to get off every hour rather than my ageing bones 😂. I’m just under 6ft tall but with a long body and short legs so I ended up putting the MS on the lowest setting on a test ride. I have a V4S full on order but this is a once in a lifetime, Happy 50th birthday present to myself purchase and I really do prefer shaft so I almost waited for the Tiger to compare but in the end I got annoyed waiting for a bike that got unveiled at the NEC last November and decided by the time I get to ride it and order whichever one I’ll miss most of this summer before it turns up. Why do they leave such a big gap between reveal and real? And after riding the MS… it was just “wow, where do I sign”.
Great video, well done. One question and one conclusion. Question, they solve the heat issue from engine than the others tigers, especially the previous 1200. And the conclusion if you want to sell a bike and sell good, and you know that you are behind BMW, DUCATI, KTM maybe and Honda with AFRICA, you must lower the prices because some hundreds cheaper than the GS and all others can't help you.
As we all acknowledge the end of the internal combustion engine as we know it is coming to the end of its life, it’s great to see all the major manufacturers are still producing stonking bikes with something for everyone and probably better than they have ever been in terms of equipment and range choice. Reckon this is going to take a lot of sales from BMW GS’s. Be interesting to see how it holds up to a couple of UK winters.
Triumph really doing well with this current range. Nice review Si.
Outstanding review. I do like those chunky mirror stems!
Just wanted to clarify the suspension thing: on the 2017-2018 s1000rr, once you adjust preload (which is manual) , you've to go through a calibration procedure on the side stand so the bike gets a new "zero point" of sorts. Bmw is a little cagey about what that does, but it does adjust the damping range/semi active behaviour according to the preload change it measures on the side stand. Pretty sophisticated stuff and with a fantastic range of adjustability.
That said this suspension, at least on the adjustability front, is leaps and bounds ahead of what bmw offers on the GS 1250, which is literally 2/3 modes for damping and an auto mode for preload. So, presumably similar functionality but a little pathetic on the adjustability features available to the user.
So to answer your question, no, damping characteristics changing according to a self adjusting preload is not entirely unique. I suppose ktm also has a similar algorithm, and the ohlins ec2 is on a different league altogether but for a totally different application.
@@greyanaroth Nice one, thank you for clarifying - yes, I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case on the latest round of more sophisticated semi-active systems; but I've not heard it mentioned it before.
@@writestuffmedia from what I understand, one should calibrate the semi active stuff post a preload change since, if you think back to "old school" Allen and flathead screw adjusters, you've to redo your damping post a preload change since the load transference completely changes. Usually, in real world scenario, you may have to add some rebound damping to account for the spring being more, ah, springy due to more load going through it.
And the semi active stuff is essentially motorized potentiometers adjust your damping as per whatever algorithm is programmed viz what the sensors are reading.
Great review, very informative. I'm 1.65m tall, and I fancy the GT Explorer because of its 850mm ride height, and 30l tank. What do you think?
But.. is it new???
The outtake: "How the hell you made that bridge".... Simon: "Ha ha ha, sorry, that's not my normal thing".... really? Simon? Shall we ask Mufga about 'your normal thing'? Hmmm?
Seriously though, that's a fantastically comprehensive review and throws up yet another possible addition to the return-to-Blighty shopping list. GT Pro or Explorer looking a potential front-runner, though still tenterhooks for a (hopefully equally comprehensive) MG V100 Mandello review in a few months
Thank you Martin. Don't ask Mufga. He shares the sentiment, but of my entire riding career.
I hope very much to be on the Guzzi launch too
@@writestuffmedia I would definitely make you my choice to attend that launch.... or Michael (especially if he did it all in his Fast Show persona) or John Milbank. Or Michael Neeves (he's VERY good, isn't he?). Or maybe Sportsbikeshop would release Mufga for a nostalgia trip?
Had a KTM1290 and an older r1200GS. The bimmer was a tank with insufficient power .The KTM was not a good shifter without sw upgrade and was very vibby and abrupt at 6000 and above - power, but not fun power. Just purchased a Triumph 1200 GT explorer and hope this is powerful enough with an emphasis on comfort. Had many Harley's and you have spend $40k and then another $40k to make them go.
Just a reminder, that the GS is 106 ft/lb at 6,250 and 134HP at 7,750 👍
I love the Triumph … and would be tempted to swap my R1250GS HP for one…. But it’s hard to buy a slower, heavier bike….and the BMW dealer pampers me…. So its looking unlikely.
Excellent review, Triumph have made a great bike. We'll see what BMW come up with when they release the 1300gs. Over to you BMW.
Excellent review! My new favourite dream bike ,the rally explorer
Seems Triumph have done an excellent job but would you prefer this or the 900?
Oh, I'd take a 30-litre tank all day because I'm obsessed with tank range.
Hi Simon, nice review as always - however, vibration and engine heat have been plagued the outgoing Tiger 1200. I wonder how these two compare. And, do you think it´s a trend to introduce vibration for producing a more racy, sportier feeling (which it doesn´t do to me at all btw) or is it purely a result of technical necessities due to EURO5? That no one mentioned any problems with vibrations is logical to me as there is a commercial interest not to upset a vendor of a bike with a review that clearly(!) brings up negatives. Stay safe
Using the T-plane crank to deliberately introduce 'vibration' - or character - was done entirely to add some traction to the Tigers off-road and give them a bit of engine feel on road. It's not a performance thing because it doesn't add performance, and it's not a Euro5 thing. Makes no difference to emissions (well, it does, because the Tiger runs less valve overlap than the Speed Triple, so it's actually cleaner - but that's not why Triumph did it).
I know Triumph are aware of the vibes as a potential issue - top gear is an overdrive to help keep the revs in a more manageable zone when cruising. But they're confident they won't be a problem for most (all?) riders.
@@writestuffmedia so all in all it has to be understood like the sound generator in some e-cars in order to give the sound & feel of a combustion engine and by that a better feeling of what the engine does? Cos how can vibrations generate traction? Stay safe
Enthusiastic Amateur - about my skill level! Excellent review though I think the 900 version a better fit for me with less weight and a more appropriate amount of power.
The vibes on the 900 motor were way too much for my arthritic shoulders. I went for the F900XR which I absolutely love. I am in my seventies though.
Firstly thanks for the review, I really wanted this bike to be top of the pile but noticed a few obvious things.
1. Weight compared to GS - comparing similar models on the manufacturer websites Triumph Rally pro 249kg , bmw r1250 GS 249kg both wet weight. What models are being compared to give the 17kg difference you mentioned? GSA compared to Rally explorer has the BMW 7kg heavier but the triumph doesn’t have rear pannier frames as standard so there must be 4kg there which would mean only a few kg between them. Again not 17kg.
2. Power curves - I watched your entire video which has a lot of POV filming. Not once do I see you at full throttle 9000rpm or 9000rpm at all. Why does it matter what max power something makes on the road, you never use it. High power output near to max rpm is for the track. Most of your filming showed you at between 4000-6000rpm once or twice slightly higher. For sure the BMW is super strong here. As you mention.
3. Price - I have spec’d a Rally explorer and a GSA to Black for the Triumph and triple black for the BMW. I added rear pannier frames to the Triumph to get same as BMW and get just over £19500 for the Triumph and £19300 for the BMW. Now the bmw doesn’t have blind spot warning so that should be noted. Point is they are so close on price that it doesn’t appear worthy of Triumph making a thing of it. Plus should the Triumph not be considerably cheaper than the BMW, it is manufactured in a country, Thailand, with I’m guessing lower manufacturing costs than Europe, with the BMW 1250 assembled in Europe if Triumph held the same profit margins as BMW surely it should be cheaper.
4. The BMW was released in 2018, so all Triumph had to do was buy a couple, benchmark them and improve it, for a bike released 4 years after its target bike, it should be considerably better shouldn’t it. I’m slightly confused at what Triumph have made. If you want a big dirt orientated bike buy the ktm, if you want belting top end power and a road bias buy a Ducati (though expensive) or you could go KTM again. Or if you want stonking torque a great all round bike buy the BMW.....I’m not sure Triumph have been very original here aside from throwing a triple at it, I guess if somebody is totally anti BMW it gives an alternative but is it going to pull somebody away from a BMW that is happy with the brand. Triumph had a golden opportunity to do that, have they succeeded? Not sure about that.
5 looks - well that’s a personal thing isn’t it 🤔 what one person thinks ace, somebody else thinks ugly, most people like the Ducati multi..... personally I think it looks like the eagle off Sesame Street 🤪
So, what was your point actually?!
@Simon Hargreaves
Simon,
explaining the firing order of a t-plane is easy. How does a bass player count a three-quarter bar?
One, two, and, three.
Kind regards
😆👍
Brilliant no BS review, thank Simon.
Thank you Simon, a very thorough review!, remember you from the PB days!, haven’t ridden for 15 years, now considering one of these, could I put road tyres on the rally rims?
Your riding around the roads was amazing..
Nice review.
MPG/Range?
Top speed?
Weight?
Fuel cons:
Triumph claim “up to 248 miles” from the 20-litre Pro and “up to 372 miles” from the 30-litre Explorer. That would be a fuel economy figure of 56.4mpg. Triumph’s spec says their tested fuel economy is 55.4mpg.
On the test ride we covered 176.2 miles at a trip measure of 41.5mpg on the Rally Explorer, with 109.4 miles remaining - 286 miles in total. The same distance left a GT Pro on the reserve light (assuming they were full when we set off in the morning; I checked the Rally Pro and it was brimmed).
It’s safe to say the Explorer will run over 300 miles, but 350 will take some restrained riding. The Pros will be looking for filling stations around the 160 to 180-mile mark.
Top speed: 148bhp on a bike with this aero this should be good for around 160mph, but it's been a long time since anyone in the media measured top speeds of test bikes. A KTM1190 making 134bhp would do a measured 154mph, so unless Triumph have limited the Tiger's top speed (and top gear is an overdrive, so assuming it will actually pull peak revs in top) then over 150mph should be possible.
Weight depends on configuration: without luggage, the figures are:
GT: 240kg
GT Pro: 245kg
GT Expl: 255kg
Rally Pro: 249kg
Rally Expl: 261kg
@@writestuffmedia thanks for the comprehensive response Simon. I'm from the era when all that mattered was the top speed and the 0-60 😀
Thanks Simon, great review. I'm a lapsed biker, looking to get back to it, when funds allow. Tiger is definitely a bike I'm aspiring to.Keen to keep running costs down.
How does fuel consumption and service costs compare to the competition?
Also will be mainly using for the road, offroad for extra fun as not experienced. Like the Rally Explorer, for style and standard kit, if my little legs will take it.
Is there any choice in stickier tyres for the bigger wheel, when time to change, if your doing maybe 80% / 20% road to offroad use?
Cheers Bill
Thanks Simon, loved that review. How crazy would it be to do a track day on the Tiger ( I guess really, I’m trying to asses the handling in relation to other sports tourers )?
I honestly think on the track, even at a modest pace, ground clearance on the GT models (900 and 1200) would be limited - they both drag the pegs fairly easily (but it's all relative - back off a fraction and you'll be fine). I got the pegs down on the Rally too - and with 20mm more ride height than the GT, it shows how low it is!
But in terms of handling, it'd be fine. I've seen lots of 800 and old 120p Tigers on track before.
Love the new tft screen!
GT Explorer for me!!!! Awesome review!
Great review thanks Simon. I own a 2018 Tiger 1200 XCA - I'm undecided about upgrading to the new model.. is it worth it? I mainly ride on roads with the odd excursion off road. I love the triple and not so sure about the T-Plane change.
Did you get to take the GT Pro off road to any extent?, would like to know how it handled in a mild off-road environment.
No, Triumph only provided the Rally Pro at the off-road centre. You probably could take the GT off-road in the same way you can stick off-road tyres on a V-Strom 1050 and take it off-road, but 19in front, less suspension travel, cast wheels... it's not really built for it.
The Rally is a better road bike than the GT is an off-road bike, I would say. In some ways it's a better road bike than the GT (more ground clearance, I prefer the steering agility and the riding position suits me better).
Thanks Simon
Excellent video, thanks for sharing your opinion on what is good and bad! I was wondering just handling wise, would you prefer a vs4 or the tiger 1200???
Thanks
Excellent review and observations. I did see on another review the peg scraping which was commented on. Given the height of the bike does it mean the pegs are really low or is it just a testament to how hard you can ride them?
Bit of both I reckon, but they're lower than most other adventure bikes.
Great review as usual sir…how’s the quickshifter ?🙌
Very very good. Changes at a nice, positive rate, for me - not too abrupt or sudden, but not too lazy either. Never had a double tap or a missed shift, up or down.
@@writestuffmedia Thanks a ton…safe miles🙌🙌
I just couldn't get my eyes off the scaffolding the mirrors are hanging on on the Explorer version. Love the bike but that puts me right off. What's the point of paying for that radar option if those nasty mirrors would be the first thing I'd change. That would save some weight as well🤣 not to mention a replacement costs when it will break off after falling down. The mirrors doesn't even fold. And I like the option of a bigger tank. I don't even use that radar function in my car because it annoys me. At least they could integrate it in the mirrors not under. Never have I ever felt the need for the rear facing radar while riding off-road on a 21" wheel🤣And a size of that thing on the back side🙄 Rear wheel slip regulation would be much more appropriateed by the offroad riders than that radar. If they went after 1250 GSA with the Rally Explorer then why not the option for 19 inch spoked wheel? I'd like to see a percentage figure of riders who'll take this particular model hardcore off roading. Go for the sales numbers not the opinions. What's the need to reinvent the wheel? I had to point it out because most likely I'll buy the bike🤣 or perhaps wait for a 30L tank version of the rally pro with adjustable traction control🤔😋 that would be a complete package for me😍
Comparing the GSA with the Rally Explorer, which is easier to pick up? The boxer cylinders are noted for giving a better start angle.
Excellent review - thank you!
Hi Simon - I know you were comparing against the 1250 gs and the bottom.end grunt etc. But how does the torque at the bottom end stack up against the old 1200gs (I'm guessing a lot closer / similar / or even better?!) thanks.
Great review by the way!!!
Great review, will the GT Pro or GT Explorer be a slouch on light trails?
Not really built for it with 19in front, road tyres, 200mm suspension travel. I could do it, but stick more off-road tyres on it, it'd be better.
Great review as always Simon. I hope you do a big adventure group test soon…
So do I! Be great to back-to-back it with a GS/A, KTM 1290 SA and a Multi V4. Maybe the previous Tiger 12 too.
That peg scrapping has me a little nervous there might not be the clearance of other Adv bikes. Did it happen often or were you really pushing it?
I don't think there's anything to be too bothered about in terms of it being an actual problem in the course of normal riding! I was pushing on a fair bit and I like a good peg scrape so could probably have done it a bit less if I held the bike up a bit more mid corner.
I remember scraping the life out of the V-Strom 1050 (also on 19in front) and Guzzi's V85TT, but never decked the Africa Twin out, or KTMs (I don't think), or the GS come to that (although pretty sure my colleague, Martin Fitz-Gibbons, did a bit of that on more than one occasion).
Good review Simon, how does it compare against the other adventure bikes in the MPG stakes?
It's in the ball-park - they all vary a lot depending on riding style tbh - one rider can get over 50mpg, another nearer 40mpg. In the real world I never bother thinking about mpg as a rule, just how far I can get between fuel stops. That's why I like 30 litre tanks, too!
I did some fuel test on an R1250 GS when i came out a few years ago - got 55.5mpg riding sensibly. On another test with a 1250 GS A, when I was riding it with my brain out, it averaged 40.9mpg. A Ducati 1260 Enduro I had on test at the same time did 37mpg.
The Tiger was doing 41.5mpg on the launch, but that was also riding pretty hard. Triumph claim something like 55mpg, but I reckon 50 would be do-able with a bit of care.
@@writestuffmedia 👍👍👍
Great review mate!
It's interesting looking at the weights of these bikes. They are not as light as you have been saying.
Comparing my 2015 r1200gs to the gt pro which is 245kg wet my gs is only 238kg. The r1250 gs is 248kg so only 3kg difference there with 86cc extra capacity.
Really fascinating review Simon, you are so engaging anf natural, thank you for honest, interesti g movie review!
Reckon one of these could be travelling round Scotland pretty soon 🙂
Hmmm....
(I've already asked Triumph if we can have one... for Mufga 😁)
I cant get my head around why Triumph want to make a triple sound like a twin. Build a twin! I rode the 900 with the intention of buying one after owning A Tiger 800 (which I loved). I was ready to order. I thought it was terrible. I bought a Multistrada 950 which I thought was smoother. Now they have done the same with the 1200. Its a pity that the couldn't make the GTs normal firing order and the XRs cross plane. It would widen the market.
Other than that the 1200 looks great.
I have tiger 850 and yes just above 70mph it starts to spoil the game by giving vibrations in handlebar
Boring,but I agree with Gavin..by far the best constructive review of these bikes I have seen thus far
Thanks Ian 👍
Beautiful review Simon. Watch those corners.
Thank you, and I will. That point was made to me quite forcibly :-)
Excellent on-board commentary
Thanks Nick! It's a 'mare :-)
I always worry about the finish on Triumphs, I noticed a few quite young/low mileage bikes with poor corrosion on fasteners, swing arms etc. has this improved?
bonjour
excellent essai , c'est parfait , peux tu me dire si il y a vraiment une grosse différence sur route entre la rallye pro et la gt pro ?
merci
Pas de problème :-)
Le moteur et la puissance ont la même sensation car ils sont identiques, et le dash, screen et les switches sont tous les mêmes, donc non, pas une énorme différence.
Mais le châssis, la direction et l'ergonomie sont différents. La Rallye est grand et vous êtes assis haut, le GT est plus bas. La GT est la meilleure moto de route pure mais la Rallye est ma préférée.
Excusez mon français!
What and excellent video and review,
Is it not like Yamaha's crossplane crank just a different name Good review this bike should sell well.
Thanks Terry - the T-plane isn't like a crossplane - well, in the sense it's a x-plane crank with one arm of the X missing. And it feels very different. Actually, now you mention I remember a Triumph engineer at the 900 launch saying it was the x-plane crank that gave them the idea of messing with firing intervals and crank pin arrangements. So, in a way, you're right!
Amazing review of a very promising bike (my dream bike).
Watch out for portugese bridges tho, they come accross way faster than expected (without warning even)!
Indeed! The way the roads are laid out - the bend radii, the way they string complex S-bends together - is subtly different to Spanish roads. I find it easier to *read* roads in Spain and France than in Portugal - it's not that they do unexpected things, it's just they seem to *flow* into each other a bit differently. Hard to put my finger on it.
Thanks for your nice presentation👍..finally a kardanl competition...love my boxer but this one is worth a test ride. Hopefully, for Triumph, the r1300gs won't be too good. Does this have an anti-dive function like the new KTM? Greetings from southern Germany
Looking forward to seeing one of these in the flesh having owned the 3rd gen version. 150 backtyre on a 1200 though ?
The mirrors on all the models except the Explorer versions are still the same as my 2012 Triumph 1200 Explorer. They could have changed those easily enough.
Would you still go for the multi V4s, or has another ADV taken over ?
Hi Simon! I have ordered a tiger 900 rally pro… which was a great test drive. Shall I reconsider and look at this bike??!
As Triumph pointed out, the 1200 Rally is 10% heavier and 30-40% more performance than the 900. It's shaft drive, so that's a point of difference depending on your preference. And the clocks are nicer imo :-)
I'd definitely get a ride on one!
Thanks Simon.
Great Video.