Swiss Sturmgewehr 57, 7.5x55: The How And The Why With Dale
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Patreon: / blokeontherange
Teespring: teespring.com/...
Facebook: / blokeontherange
The Swiss Sturmgewehr 57 (aka SIG 510) is an interesting and unique piece - far heavier and more awkward than its contemporaries, there are however very interesting reasons why it ended up like that. In this video, Dale explains the whys and wherefores of the Stgw 57 design, which fully explain how and why it ended up like it did.
Awesome video!
Never thought that i would watch the whole 40 minutes...
..
.
😢😢😢😢
Dale was an excellent speaker
He was indeed :)
@@BlokeontheRange Bloke this is excellent! More Dale!
Dale seems like a solid and knowledgeable dude.
I am trying to place his accent. He sounds like maybe New England? like the sort of accent them in the 80s movie villain who went to Harvard would have.
@@GunFunZS He didn't say: "wicked pissa" once, so I guess no.
@@kloetili wicked pissa is more a Boston/Mass thing. His sounds more Maine/New Hampshire-ish.
He's not American guys. A lot of English as a foreign language gets taught with an American accent. I'd guess educated in Hong Kong.
I like Dale, sounds like Keanu Reeves
Having done my 22 years in the Swiss Army, and owning such a rifle today, I may give some more insight into why it was designed as it is, and how it was used. The following few comments are just on topics not mentioned.
The “Flying Orange Carrot” is only a
rifle grenade for training purposes. It’s orange because soldiers can locate it
with much less effort after every shot. The cartridge type GP 11 was a given for this rifle because the various types of carabines used by the Swiss Army needed the same cartridge. No army wants to go to war with several types of cartridges. The big cartridge made light or small rifle impossible to design. Older Swiss
Army soldiers remained equipped with carabines until the 1970s. The rifle is also large because mountain warfare is conducted over larger distances than trench warfare or urban warfare. This means an army equipped with a precise rifle that kills over a
larger distance has a clear advantage. The rifle was equipped together with a special white color stored usually at the battalion level. The color would be issued during winter or in case of mountain warfare as a black rifle is visible at great distance once soldiers wear white camouflage uniforms. Nearly a million such rifles were produced and 740’000 sold to the Swiss Army. Once production was halted, the machines for the fabrication of the rifle were sold to Chile, where they are
probably still located.
That much for today and best regards to all involved in such research.
Ken Bolder wow, I’m guessing you also spoke with Dale and passed this info on. Of course for brevity this would be omitted but honestly this kind of info gives information on other guns that have nothing to do with this.
Was so happy when we got the STGW 90! The 57 was so heavy to carry around!
Hello Ken
I am from Switzerland.
In addition, one should say that there were two versions of the "Rüäbli" .... "Carrots". The first "without additional propellant charge" for a range of 30m and the other with an additional propellant charge for a range of up to 270-300 m.
The one with an additional propellant charge was the only one still in use from the early 1980s, because shooting at a tank at 30 m is extremely dangerous. You can't get that close to a tank.
The carrots were hollow-charge projectiles that penetrated even the most massive steel.
There were also steel grenades, fragmentation grenades, flares, etc.
During my training in 1983 I shot ... 69 of these carrots, plus 2 real sharp steel grenades ... but was the only one in the company who was allowed to do that.
We had a shooting book where everything was recorded.
In addition, I fired 12 hand grenades plus about 20 shots with the Panzerfaust (rocket tube).
After the training I had cracks in the joint capsule of my right thumb, because the carrots shot with propellant charge ... were really very uncomfortably strong.
In the 80s these carrots were only shot with an archery shot or in a lying position, standing was no longer allowed.
The rule was ... 3 shots in 12 seconds with 2 hits. That at 120-150 m firing range ...... but may have been different on each troop shooting range ..... depending on the distance possibilities.
To shoot the carrots you needed an extra magazine, a "white-colored" aluminum magazine with 5 cartridges.
Quasi-blind cartridges that only generated pressure but were without a projectile.
You could also shoot shot carrots with the white cartridges after they had already been shot, only then they only flew 10m far .... (((-:
The magazine had a locking button that you had to press to reload a new cartridge.
Switzerland really has everything to do better, we want the others, that's why the carrot has become so big that nobody liked it anymore ......
And that's why the StGW-57 was so massive, neatly processed that you hit it like on the first day after tens of thousands of shots. But it was so heavy that we would all have preferred light rifles like the G-3.
The StGW 57 costs between 150 and 300 francs, the bayonet perhaps 30 francs.
Oh yes, and not all StGW have the relief grooves in the cartridge chamber, that was added later to achieve a certain improvement because of the case jamming, etc.
With mine, however, there was never a malfunction, no sleeve jamming, yes, in the entire training there was never anything like a malfunction, a defect, etc.
The Swiss never shoot it off the sandbag, but from bipod. The bipod in the rear position locks for normal single fire, the bipod at the front of the barrel locks for series fire .... so full-size car.
There was a small white plate on the left of the handle of the StGW, it had to be turned over for continuous fire, it said black ..... you could shoot all types of fire.
The white position of the plate was intended to prevent accidental fire from suddenly shooting in the shooting range.
So whoever went to the annual compulsory exercise (the mandatory as they say here) shooting distance is always 300m here, and went into the shooting range, had to have the rifle set to "white".
@@peterroth9804 Hello Peter
Firing 69 "carrots" must be something of a record for a soldier at that time. We just did a few of them each, and it was not recorded. Once we also got a few boxes of hand grenades produced in 1944, and anyone who felt good about it could volunteer to throw a few of them at a rock. This was also not recorded. It just shows you how different things were done around the same time in the same Swiss army.
By now Dale has made a few more videos explaining nearly everything related to the Stgw 57 and related weapons. I think we all will learn some new details.
@@kenbolder4688 Well, I was a fighting pig ......
And I was the commander's driver, so I threw the hand grenades from him and some of the other officers.
At that time they all had an allocation of hand grenades.
yes, the old stick grenades, they were much better than today's ones.
One could always start with them. Tie it up somewhere and ignite it with a long rip cord.
And you could make "grandmothers", that is, tie trotyl packets around them and maasively increase their effect.
I've done several blasting courses.
But the new handgrante, an egg hand grenade, is very good at explosive power.
Well, I was in the Radfarrer-Kompagnie .... Rdf-Kp. 2/6.
Well, de UGs = carrots, I didn't love them at all, but they were just there.
I really thought the Stgw-57 was an unbreakable weapon, but it is more of a light machine gun than a StGw.
Only in sustained fire is it difficult to handle, the GP-11 cartridge is strong. But the weapon can easily withstand 150 rounds in continuous fire ...
In this era where every ignoramus can broadcast to the people on social media it is so refreshing and satisfying to hear knowledgeable people discussing an interesting topic.
Amen to that.
I was trained on this very StGw 57 and still have this weapon today. As a member of the army you get this rifle and have this all your life. I still have mine today, I received it in 1976 when I joined the army. This assault rifle is very reliable, robust, indestructible and accurate. At 300 m you can hit a "target" without any problems. It is a very good positional weapon. The rifle also allows you to fire grenades (as a mortar) and you could also fire tank grenades. Easy to handle, reliable, almost no susceptibility to malfunction, I never had a malfunction during my whole service. And during more than 20 years of military service I always shot very often and very much.
In Finnish Brutality 2020, I'm expecting to see Bloke with a Sturmgewehr 57, in full Swiss kit, including the Fearsome Flying Carrots :D
that carrot would be great for knock-down targets
@@vojtechkonvalina7115 Indeed! :D
@@jukkatalari3896 Then you have something to look forward to ;)... Because I`m the madman that is actualy going to do it. PE57 and P49 combo XD
@@SwissFusilier Please let them film it.
@@handlebullshit that`s kinda Blokes plan... just need to get into the fame squat XD
I carried that thing around for months and even years! Hated it, but I still could disassemble and assemble it blindfolded today.
I've spent 20 years kicking myself for not buying the civilian version of this rifle (Sig AMT) when it was available.
Lesson learned, if it's very cool, BUY IT.
I think some people build them from parts kits
I just bought one today for 180 Swiss Bucks :D
Love it! Not even as a retired Swiss soldier I know all of the history of that weapon! :-) I was equiped with it during my "Rekrutenschule" and later got the Stgw 90! All 600'000 Swiss soldiers at the time had such a weapon at home all the time and virtually no accidents and criminal cases where this weapon played a role! Still today every Swiss soldier has his basic equipment including the Stgw 90 AT HOME! :-)
I did my ER in 1990 in the "Troupes d’aviation" in Payerne and was Cpl in 1991. I think we were the last ones to be issues with the 57. I remembered a particular night where one of my comrade was getting exhausted during a load March exercise, I had to carry his rifle, 2 X 5,7 kg plus my rucksack, november, rain, alpine muddy trails, that was really not fun but 30 years later, I only kept the good memories. What we really love was shooting, that was simply awesome. I made a huge mistake not to have kept my rifle after my time in the army at age 32. I am thinking to get one from the Bourses aux armed in Lausanne one day.
PS: We used to say that the 90 was for sissies, the Fass90 was a much lighter rifle. 😄
The sights have more parts than a whole Makarov pistol 😂
Which is why the rifle would never be a production "success". Luckily for the Swiss that wasn't really what they were going for.
So complex it can be a gun on its own.
Blackst0ne45 That happens when watch makers build a rifle.
Hello all Gunners.
I come from Switzerland
In addition, one should say that there were two versions of the "Rüäbli" .... "Carrots". The first "without additional propellant charge" for a range of 30m and the other with an additional propellant charge for a range of up to 270 m.
The one with an additional propellant charge was the only one still in use from the early 1980s, because shooting at a tank at 30 m is extremely dangerous. You can't get that close to a tank.
The carrots were hollow-charge projectiles that penetrated even the most massive steel.
There were also steel grenades, fragmentation grenades, flares, etc.
During my training in 1983 I shot ... 69 of these carrots, plus 2 real sharp steel grenades ... but was the only one in the company who was allowed to do that.
We had a shooting book where everything was recorded.
In addition, I fired 12 hand grenades plus about 20 shots with the Panzerfaust (rocket tube).
After the training I had cracks in the joint capsule of my right thumb, because the carrots shot with propellant charge ... were really very uncomfortably strong.
In the 80s these carrots were only shot with an archery shot or in a lying position, standing was no longer allowed.
The rule was ... 3 shots in 12 seconds with 2 hits. That at 120-150 m firing range ...... but may have been different on each troop shooting range ..... depending on the distance possibilities.
To shoot the carrots you needed an extra magazine, a "white-colored" aluminum magazine with 5 cartridges.
Quasi-blind cartridges that only generated pressure but were without a projectile.
You could also shoot shot carrots with the white cartridges after they had already been shot, only then they only flew 10m far .... (((-:
The magazine had a locking button that you had to press to reload a new cartridge.
Switzerland really has everything to do better, we want the others, that's why the carrot has become so big that nobody liked it anymore ......
And that's why the StGW-57 was so massive, neatly processed that you hit it like on the first day after tens of thousands of shots. But it was so heavy that we would all have preferred light rifles like the G-3.
The StGW 57 costs between 150 and 300 francs, the bayonet perhaps 30 francs.
Oh yes, and not all StGW have the relief grooves in the cartridge chamber, that was added later to achieve a certain improvement because of the case jamming, etc.
With mine, however, there was never a malfunction, no sleeve jamming, yes, in the entire training there was never anything like a malfunction, a defect, etc.
The Swiss never shoot it off the sandbag, but from bipod. The bipod in the rear position locks for normal single fire, the bipod at the front of the barrel locks for series fire .... so full-size car.
There was a small white plate on the left of the handle of the StGW, it had to be turned over for continuous fire, it said black ..... you could shoot all types of fire.
The white position of the plate was intended to prevent accidental fire from suddenly shooting in the shooting range.
So whoever went to the annual compulsory exercise (the mandatory as they say here) shooting distance is always 300m here, and went into the shooting range, had to have the rifle set to "white".
Most beautiful rifle ever designed in my opinion!
The most surprising thing I learned from this video is that there is early automatic rifle that Ian hasn't reviewed.
yes Ian has tested and did a mud test on mine
@@fg42t2 A pella automatic rifle?
I did my service in 1961 in the infantry. The cost of a Stg57, if lost or stolen, was SFR 1350.00, a hefty sum for that time.
I got mine in 1985, and it is still in my safe. I carried it in all my service and had the pleasure to do many combat shooting exescises and burn donwn some 24 magazines in a row until the barrel get so hot that it start auto igniting the next cartridge after 30-60 second it stays still.
We had to demonstrate this to the Rekruten at basic instruction. After three or four mags we were told to drown the barrel in water or snow to cool it down and then start shooting again. Now every year I go to the Feldschiessen and still got the bullseye at 300 meters.
GJ guys.
Ian namedrop by Dale. Love this guy!!!! :)
Interesting hearing the terms 'Swiss' and 'knee jerk reaction' in the same sentence.
You know it's Swiss when the rear sight alone has more parts than an entire pistol.
Put Dale and Ian together to discuss specific technical issues. I young "bloke" with insight into what a firearm should be.
Pardon the pun but I got a kick out of watching the recoil effects of the rifle grenade on the Swiss soldiers. What a thump.
In fact you should not put the stock on the ground, not good for the weapon, you have to hold it in your little arms. We always launched grenades that way. Need some good training to not loose a finger or have the aim incrusted in the forehead, but you get used to it and i had a lot of fun firing them.
Depends on the target, direct shot against armoured vehicles called for bracing the rifle, mortar like fire had you putting the butt to the ground.
Personal experience in RS and UOS in 1979 and 1980. Having a grenadier instructor we went through cases of the ruddy carrots.
Every year or so I come back and watch this video haha.
Thank God to the bloke for bringing stg57 material. You and your channel associates are like the only source on this gun that presents us with such detail. Aside from covering one with mud.
The Swiss could also have made Spartan-esque remarks about Soviet armor back then. "We'll be waiting for you once you open the hatch" sounds pretty badass and intimidating, almost as cool as the "we'll shoot twice and then go home" remark that a Swiss supposedly told the German Kaiser when he mentioned the German Army was twice as big as the Swiss Army, I've heard about it but can't attest to its legitimacy.
When I heard the story with the 2 or 3 shots it was betweeen a swiss and an US General.
It seems to have been a joke from an early 20th century postcard.
Me thinks the Swiss, wanted every combat soldier, to be a designated rifleman, light machine gunner & motarman, all in the one soldier.
So imagine what would it be like to fight the Swiss , in those mountain pass areas.
@@aussiviking604 The swiss generally have a way underestimated system i think. With their militia system the guys have their gear at home. One swiss comedian who was asked by a german talkshow host years ago put it this way: "This saves a lot of time and effort: If mobilization is needed people only have to be told when to be where. No need to bring them in and equip them, refresh their training and then transport them to where they are needed."
Great to see Dales knowledge showcased on the Blokes channel. I have the great pleasure to have known Dale for a few years and can attest to his in depth knowledge of the Stgw-57... just don't get him talking about rifle grenades😂
What a smart young man! It is hard to believe that English is not his native language. Regards from Ukraine.
Wow, this Dale dude seems so legit and knowledgeable!! would love to meet him and talk about rifles!
He definitely knew what he was talking about with the 57 rifles. Didn't realize the butt stock was solid rubber intended to be deformed under recoil like that. Cool to see archival slow-mo footage of it.
You guys would be a cute couple
Fascinating. The lost art of rifle grenades. They were long gone by the time I enrolled. I imagine they would be very difficult to master - particularly lobbing them in an anti-armour capacity. As bloke mentions, many nations had Carl Gustavs (84 mm shoulder fired A-tk recoilless rifle) at platoon level. Much more effective. While serving in Germany my battalion had one Carl G for each section (3 per platoon!). For indirect a-pers or smoke each platoon had a 60 mm mortar.
I'm sixty this year and i know that gun just if i was born with it.
It was my gun for all my time in the army and i have launched so many grenades with it without problem.
They are two types of grenades, the non propelled ones for training and the ones with propellant for real shooting.
Actually i never shot those grenades with the stock on the ground, as i was in anti tank infantery mainly equiped with bantam 10.5 recoiless guns, we only fired antitank grenades in horizontal way.
To achive this you had to put the stock very firmely under your right arm, holding extremely fermly the front part with left arm, guess the trajectory (needs a lot of training) and fire. The best part is that after shooting you don't need to take care of getting back in cover, because the recoil will automatically send you in the ditch on your ass where you reload, climb the ditch and fire again.
Not a job for little girls !!
And by the way the weight was never a problem, we were used to it, i remember walking 30 km with that gun in the left hand, the 25 kg backpack and a box of 480 rounds in the right hand (the box of ammo weight 13 kg) and we carried that box each one for a whyle in the group. That was hard but at that time people did not complain, it would not be the same today.
@@DaletheStgwDude I used to correspond with a Swiss reservist who described basic training. The worst/most under performing marksman getting kicked in the solar plexus by the DI. He had a rifle that had been used for considerable grenade launching, so he was the guy getting kicked at the end of the range session... Eesh. The French and Swiss seem really on kindred wave-lengths as far as rifle grenades go during this time period... Comparisons would be a fascinating future project, no?
I have a couple bayonets for this rifle. They are a pretty savage design by themselves. Very nice pieces.
My favourite rifle. It's beautiful, and beautifully made.
Fascinating. Always was confused about why they adopted a rifle like that.
I did my ecole de recrues in SAVATAN Vaud, in summer 1975, and remember when the gave us our FS 57 which I kept at home till I left Switzerland, I attend then the ecole de sousoficier in 1976 and ecole d'officier en 1977 as a "mitralleur # running a section of four machine guns MG51. I always was very proud about the performances of both weapons. As I lived aboard since 1986 I couldn´t keep this weapon, so I really have appreciated your video, thanks once again. Last year during summer I did a long trip around Switzerland and had the chance to see and taste the new SG 550.
Wow. It is so great to click on videos and get such intimate, thorough historic and technical detail on a firearm. Thanks!
I love how you guys brought in the great historical context that lead to this weapon becoming what it is. Only in this context it makes all sense. This was a really high quality presentation. It glued me to my computer!
He wants to make a book? Send him to Ian!
Seconded. Ian actually has experience writing such things. Also, Ian almost certainly reads (if not speaks) French.
@@danmorgan3685 But I thought Ian WAS french, based on his french gun fascination ;-) hehehe
@@danmorgan3685 While Dale's German bits in this vid are almost perfectly executed.
Fascinating - really, thanks a lot for this.
I shoot my '57 in 300m competition very often (again this week) and there's so much I didn't know about it. Like the deforming rubber buttstock!!
You said Dale is French - I have a little feeling that I might have met him once shooting at a closed long-range hunting lodge in France earlier this year!!
That was F*CKING awesome! Thank you for the education!
When I was 18 years old I was allowed to have a fully functional StGw57-gun at home. I could transport it on the bike without any problems.
Today, 36 years later, and over 600 military service days, the weapon is allowed for me only with a firearms license and exceptional approval and special state requirements. Otherwise I am a criminal stamped.
Thank you European Union. Thanks to the politicians. Best greetings from, not so free, Switzerland.
Same here. I was 17 and "Jungschütz". Saturday on the bike to the shooting range. Was nothing special in the early 80s. You are also right, fuck the EC.
This is probably one of the most informative sources on this topic that I’ve seen. Thanks for the awesome content as always
❗️❗️This is the most interesting and entertaining video I have watch on CZcams in a long time. The 30 minutes went by so quick. Please put this dude in more videos.!!!!❗️❗️❗️
I can assure you, this riffle was 100 % reliable during my two years of swiss military service. But never the mind, each of these fucking tank granades nearly broke our bones 😬. This was tough stuff. Thank you for this intersting Video 👍😎
That's 14.77 LBs loaded for those of us in Merica.
So its 15lbs of freedom?
And people complain about the BAR being heavy it was meant to be a light machine gun
What's so crazy to me is the barrel is friggin' 27 inches long!
@@zacht9447 The crazy thing is U.S. Marine Corps BAR gunners in the Pacific during World War II and grunts from both the Army and Marines in Korea treated the M1918A2 BAR as a "rifle." Basically firing them through the shoulders and the bipods detached from that beautiful weapon.
@@reymiguelperez6643 I've done it before its great
Love the passion and knowledge about such a specific topic.
I had been waiting for this video for forty years! It was worth waiting. Thank you.
Dale knows his stuff! Excellent and informative video, thanks for posting.
I think Dale is my new favorite internet militaria nerd. The depth of minutiae is tantalizing.
A very minute yet complete view of specific parts of military history.
Maybe talk to Ian about getting that book published.
I was at a gunshop near Fort Lewis, Washington where there was an example of this battle rifle in the shop. The owner said there were several US Army Rangers (presumably from the 2nd Battalion) "drooling" all over this gun.
A Collectors Grade book of the STG-57? I’d buy that for sure.
Me too
Great video Mike, really learned a huge amount from Dale!
I used to work with this rifle in the Swiss Army. Loved this gun highly accurate, very versatile and indestructible. Loved and this rifle and miss it.
Glad younger people are getting into military history and firearms. Hopefully they’ll be able to take over the legacy of the well know historians and researchers of the past 40 years.
I saw a few of these , one being brand new. I was in awe of how straight and simple looking everything was. On closer inspection that initial faint sneer giving way to open mouthed, gob smacked astonishment at the jewel like workmanship. The quality of everything on it was crazy, I thought it had a teak stock.
After that gun show I picked something up from a mall on the way home. There was a VW Beetle cabrio there with a window sticker stating a base version of that car would be within a few dollars of that brand new STG 510.
I bought one of these rifles more than a year and a half ago before these "converted" original STGw57 rifles became prohibited for purchase in France (you can still keep them tho). I was trying to find some more informations and I'm really glad to learn so many details. It was the kind of things that I was looking for. Like the confirmation about the MG42-45 inspiration, infos about requirements etc. I hope to see more videos with Dale as he looks so passionated and cool !
Now this also reminds me that I never shot it and I need to correct this as soon as possible.
The eventual book will be purchased instantly.! Great vid thank you both.
I'd buy an Stgw 57 book written by Dale
This is my favorite video on this channel to date! I hope Dale writes his book.
I wanted one ever since I saw “On Her Majesty’s Secret Service”!
Ugh I'd love to own one.
9-Hole Reviews I’m sure your cousin is open for another partnership
Own, but not carry.
Available in Switzerland for the equivalent of $300 to $1,000 depending on condition. Sadly, the NFA of 1934 and subsequent amendments prohibits the importation in the US of military surplus rifles converted into semi-auto but that STARTED their lives as full-auto machine guns just like the STG-57. So, no, only kits without receivers/barrels were imported here besides very few semi-auto PE-57 made expressly for this market. Have not seen kits available for several years though.
Easy: Summon a certain lame gentleman, sign off an old parchement with your own blood and a goose pen and off you go. Then I would bet you could hit your nine hole course of fire on a single magazine. I would also commit, if I were you, some additional heinous sins to get also the RUAG GP11 ammo for maximum effect.
Someone get Henry one of these so they can test out that wristwatch of a rearsight
Strong hunch he’s studying economics
Or industrial engineering.
Great job guys. Looking forward to the next videos in the FASS57. Dale should team up with Ian of Forgotten Weapons 👍
Brings back memories. There were time I hated that rifle and when I loved it. I was a sharpshooter in the Swiss Army. I was issued to 510 service rifles, one I had to use for regular training and shooting rifle grenades. That rifle became useless after 21 weeks of basic training and shooting cases of grenades, mostly in the direct hit position. I was bruised up pretty bad shooting 24 grenades in one short drill exhibition. I hated my live, the Army and that rifle at that point. Also, when shooting the grenade from behind a cover over a hill, you sometime needed that shovel you carried around all the time. The recoil of a grenade buried the entire stock in the mud, sometime so deep, you had to dig it out. After about 3 to 4 weeks into the 21 weeks Infantry base training (Rekruten-Schule), I was handed a 510 Sharpshooter rifle with as scope, after I finish second in the Company shooting competition. That rifle was fun, and even with the mediocre scope it still did well to shoot moving targets 700meter away, over the heads of my infantry soldier buddies.
When I exit the army, I asked to keep the sharpshooter rifle as the other service rifle was junk. Unfortunately they would not give me sharpshooter rifle. Years later after I already lived in then US for about 20 years, I was able to acquire a very precise 510 in Switzerland, that was never in service and brand new. Here is important to mention that Mose 510 had mediocre barrels, and only the top quality barrels, and a Swiss gunsmith who I had inspect the rifle said, it was one of the best he had seen, with a laser-straight barrel. Unfortunately again, during the Obama administrations, importing a “Semi” Automated Assault rifle was impossible. The ATF would not give me the permit to do so at that point, and I believe it still would not make.
As a alternative, I found a superb Tiger Striped Walnut K31in the US, that I modified for long range shooting. The same kind of rifle that my dad had in the Army, and is still sitting at his house in Switzerland.
So here I am, still shooting GP11 ammo after over 40 years!
I love the K31, but it would be a lot of fun to take a 510 to a shooting range in the US.
Wish they’d import or reproduce them in the US. Still happy our Swiss friends get them. Great video
"My parents don't know about this." Classic. ;-)
Quote of the day, at 6:00: "...300 meters which is the fetish range for the Swiss..." lol.
Great Video, thanks! I hated that rifle in the military service - 30 years ago - because it was so heavy (on a 50 km march), but loved it for shooting (must have shot almost 10'000 rounds, also with night optics, infrared and scope). Made the swiss sniper badge (4 out of 5 in a 30 cm circle at 600 m) . I was not aware that it was something special, thanks!
Stable in full auto and pretty good but heavy I hear.
That stock is absolute genius. Compare the elegance and simplicity of a solid rubber buttstock with holes in it that allow controlled deformation to...a massively over-engineered and expensive rear sight with 32 pieces.
Never change, Switzerland xD
The rear sight is the only thing I do not like.
These cats are so stoked about this weapon!
It's infectious!
learned a heckload! thanks a lot for your effort in saving some of the culture and background of this interesting piece of equipment.
greetings from switzerland
Terrific, in-depth review, love listening to guys who deeply know their stuff, thanks !!!
Being such a passionate and knowledgeable firerarms researcher at such a young age - hats off to Dale!
12:06 PK has it pretty much at the same spot, yet no sane individual would call it 'silly'. It's quite a reasonable position to have a bipod on an automatic firearm.
14:00 It's a bloody mortar mine!
really impressed with Dale's knowledge
Great video that answers questions I did not even know I had. This rifle is just the pinicle of a Swiss rifle...for me. It must be expensive...complicated...heavy....accurate....fire GP11....look really cool....and must have a beer keg style charger handle. I got to hold one once..... Thank you for this detailed video. More please.
This was superb! Exquisite, brilliant! Made my day, made my week! Two very highly-informed, well-researched, knowledgeable, well, "blokes" talking about the Swiss military/militia system from the manually-operated repeater to the "do-it-all" automatic rifle, grenade launcher weapon. If I had a press, I'd give you guys a contact!
I do genuinely hope that you consider bringing out this topic in a book form, particularly if you can provide some insights into the "might have been" prototypes. I note, for example, that the magazine on the '55 prototype is the same as the crazy AK-52/53 S.I.G. prototype that so befuddles gun nerds. Seeing it side by side with the crazy toggle-locking Furrer SMG that ultimately went to fortresses while the "ground pounders" used the Suomi SMG... And then seeing the continuity in wood stock design... Priceless! Seems that the German Luftwaffe Fallschirmjägergewehr idea: It's a light automatic rifle, and a self-loading rifle, such that any competent infantryman trained with the thing can use it for a multiplicity of roles: rifle, check. light auto-rifle/lmg, check. grenade launcher/mortar, check. light anti-tank/anti-bunker weapon, check. The FG42 clearly is evident in the intermediate caliber protoytpe layouts. The actual weapon system is the FG42 taken to its logical conclusion and then some.
I love those Swiss Civil Defense/ Militia mobilization films! In noting the peril posed by the Warsaw Pact, the Pact itself was formed in 1955, which surely must have exerted a tremendous influence on Swiss defensive planning and thinking. In 1955, recall, the neighbor Österreich/Austria was only belatedly leaving 4-power control, so there were Soviet troops next door (although they did leave). Stalin had been alive until very recently, and surely the Swiss knew that he once cynically told the Western Allies who were then concerned with crossing the Rhine (Remagen hadn't happened yet), to just "go through" Swiss territory... The Swiss concept of a "National Redoubt" clearly influenced Eisenhower and Allied strategists as a serious thing Germany might attempt late in the war, hence the U.S. thrust into Bayern/Bavaria and concerns with the mountains. I saw one Swiss film where the "home team" had the 1918 steel helmets and "Alpenflage" uniforms while the aggressor "away team" had the 1971 style steel helmets and gray wool uniforms and were all armed with Suomi MP43/SMG.
So if Swiss long-service reservists all kept the service rifle at home, how were the SMGs distributed in the company or platoon? Wait! Don't tell me. Just write that book!
Ausgezeichnet! Awesome!
Me: "6.7 is actually really light"
"So you add a full kilo to that..."
Ohhhhhhh......
kilo not pound ;-)
omg the timing of me watching this video. The last part of the rifle grenades was just uploaded 4 days ago. I can now just carry on
The coat and hat implies that the chap may feel cold. Yet he wears a pair of shorts. Interesting man Dale. Interesting. Wonder if his socks match...
... j/k. Great video lads. Thanks for making it.
I think Dale needs his own YT channel - just saying!
I'm a swiss soldier and we still got grandad's Sturmgewehr from before WWII. Also the Sturmgewehr 90 that soldiers today have is the most precise rifle in the world, l love it.
Btw l love that the guy wore the old swiss military outfit!
Benjamin Michael von Lichtenwald CH-Sturmgewehr von vor 2e WK? Geil! 😎
Very interesting! Thanks you two for that interview!
G'Day old chap!! During my training we fired the "energa" from under our arm out to about 100m and later found it was quite effective against buildings one of them through a window cleared the room allowing close in assault. Hopefully see you soon after this farago is over. Almost forgot the energa does fit the 57 as well
You can see it very clearly that they never received proper training in the correct handling of the Stgw 57. All manipulations were taught to the soldiers almost every day in a drill-like manner, so that they could do it in their sleep. I trained my people on this weapon as a non-commissioned officer. Today, as a reminder of my military days, I still have this weapon. The thing is good, accurate and indestructible, works perfectly under the most difficult conditions. During the period of service from 1976 to 1995, I have not seen anyone who had a breakdown or technical problems. This gun is very versatile, can be used as a mini-mine launcher for grenades (or illumination shells) and even anti-tank. It weighs about 7 kg. The magazine has 24 rounds, you usually get 4 magazines of 24 rounds each. The final acceleration of the GP11 cartridge is reached after 600 meters. Combat distance normally 100-200 meters, training distance 300 meters.
Gruezi!
Brilliant discussion & history of an incredible national mindset.. I was most fortunate to spend a Christmas-New Years with a Swiss Family in Wulflingen & Ticino back in the day... when I was first introduced to 'household' 57's........'She' literally blew my mind as what Dale so ably describes as the ''choreography'' of this amazing Alpen Beast......
Greatly enjoyable...Sla'inte.🍻
That was an interesting, fascinating amount of information. Many thanks to you both.
Watching that Stg 57 fire full-auto reminds me of shooting the FN Mle D (FN BAR). From the shoulder, that gun was sweetheart. You can stitch targets with 5 round bursts with ease. There's something to the box-mag, 12-16lb rifle-caliber machine-guns.
The Rolex of assault rifles. Gimme two!
Yes and the MG51 is called the Rolls Royce of machine guns and still in use
Great video. I'd have never considered that Hungary might drive development of the Stg like that. Brilliant bit of research. Also a nice illustration of the flawed concept of "best rifle," coz as your conversation pretty clearly pointed out, the Right Arm of the Free World might not be the answer if you need everyone on your team toting a nuke-tossing LMG. I chuckled at the FAL-boi cringe, but in my world everyone should be carrying a Stoner, so there you go.
Oh, Stoner was right. Having had an original AR10 back in the day, I can say that from first-hand experience - everyone in NATO should have had that thing, not FAL/G3/M14 etc.
WHERE DO I PRE-ORDER DALE'S BOOK?
Can't wait for the rifle grenade video. Massively underrated subject in my opinion.
Great work, very cool to hear how tactical considerations motivated the design
Fascinating vid! Thank you Bloke and Dale!
Great Doco. When the FAL was introduced in Australia (Called SLR here) I thought how clever the Energa was but wondered why it seamed to disappear. Now I know. Interesting how these items get designed from specifications lade down by someone or a commity that think this is what the soldier must have. Like a recoilless lightweight fully auto rifle firing full power ammo with minute of angle accuracy. Keep up the good work. Cheers
Not gonna lie, I thought Dale was going to the Blokes American cousin.
DO IT FER DALE!
You like Poland 😂
@sman7290 ahh a man of culture i see...
@@Manhattan_project.420 Some say he puts iron filings in his cornflakes for nutritional value, but we call him Blokes American Cousin.
He's not American...
I had the pleasure of shooting with one of those in Versoix, invited by a local. This amazing gun is a Rolls Royce compared with the K31, I wish I could own one, but Europe does'nt share the Swiss way of life. They are Sooooo accurate, specially with that aiming device, a complete weapon, now a vintage deluxe item. I knew the inspiration came from the MG 42, with Swiss exactitude to make it a sniper rifle just as well.
Great episode! Very interesting history about the '57 i did not know about.
Woooh that was an amazing video ! Thank you and Dale very much for the infos
Hope to see the rifle grenade video :D
Since I'm French, I though we were the only one to make a hugh emphasize on rifle grenade ( that was a requierement for the HK 416 btw ) but the swiss had some pretty nice one. :o
Yugoslavia too, since they took huge influence from France and Switzerland for their Army
@@loyp4328 Yep I forgot the M59/66 and the M70, thanks for the reminder !
Dale wears the Vierfrucht-Pyjama pretty well imho. Really, really nice video.
another fine video! thanks Bloke.
You lucky block ,that and the AMT are my dream rifle since I first saw them in GUNs magazine as a easily influenced teen
Danke Euch, das ist sehr interessant.
I was really enjoying the music on the intro clip.