At look at analog snakes we use for various events.
Vložit
- čas přidán 1. 03. 2023
- We use three different size/channel-count analog snakes for production services. Their use depends on the number of channels needed for the event, the distance between FOH and the stage, and if other things are needed (i.e. DMX lighting, cardioid setup, etc...).
Not included in this video is the analog splitter-snake we use when running separate monitor and FOH consoles.
Here's the video covering this:
• Using a snake splitter...
www.stageleft-audio.com
Nice content. I've learned a lot from this video and greatly helps in visualizing as for me who has no background in audio yet. Thanks for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
Big fan of EWI as well - both for snakes as well as their star quad mic cable.
Thank you for all the help. I'm building my church sound and this was helpful!
Wow, thank you for this video. I’ve been wondering how to connect everything into the board.
another quality video, Bob. thank you. btw, the wrap on those snakes looks marvelous :)
Thank you Dennis! Good observation on the wraps ;)
Thanks for your vids! Very interesting for someone like me just getting interested in audio engineering stuff.
I'm a fan of both analogue and digital. I'm now almost exclusively using digital consoles, except for the smallest of events where I may use my small Soundcraft EPM6. There's a lot to be said for using analogue snakes, and you've got all that covered. Even when I do use digital sage boxes, I still use the analogue snakes in an effort to keep the stage tidier, and keep the digital box either to the side of the stage, or off the stage altogether. On a larger stage, I typically place one snake head in the vicinity of the drummer for the drum mic's and the backline to connect into, and then another two smaller snake heads at the front of the stage a third of the way in from either side. That gives me plenty of inputs at the back and the front, and I think it helps keep things tidier. All the connections then go back to either the master snake head, or to the digital stage box.
Many consoles support Dante (either natively or with an expansion card), and so do many stage boxes of various brands. Allen & Heath have sLink or GigaAce, PreSonus favour AVB, and Midas/Behringer have AES-50 as standard. I believe nearly all of them can support Dante on the consoles with an expansion card, so you could in theory use an Allen & Heath Dante Stage Box with (for sake of an argument) an Midas Console... Not that I have ever sought to do it. The challenge I have observed with digital stage boxes is not so much the compatibility; as with all things digital, clean and stable power is important. So when employing a fully digital setup, there is the added expense of a UPS for the stage end.
Great comment! We are fans of both analog and digital as well. We really like digital for the smaller events (16 and under channel count). I'm glad to see there has been movement to standardize an audio protocol. Not too long ago, Presonus came out with an AVB to Dante converter (at this point, I have not heard much more about it).
You are correct... there can be a big added expense using digital solutions... UPS devices are extremely important. And as a sound provider, having some redundancy in networking/stage-boxes/CAT-cabling can add a huge expense. I may move to a digital snake solution for our smaller setups.
PreSonus uses a separate outboard piece of hardware for Dante conversion. You lose preamp control of a Dante box though.
There's a problem about Dante-based stageboxes... Only the sound transferring protocol is standardized, but the control protocol is not. An A&H Dante stagebox might deliver audio signals properly to a Behringer console with a Dante card, but the analog gain will be uncontrollable, fixed at the last state when it was connected to a legit A&H console.
However, if my memory serves me right, Rio stageboxes made by Yamaha has a control protocol that could be accessed by a computer, and analog gain adjustments can be done with the help of a laptop. (Technically you can even use Rio's as multitrack studio soundcards with the help of Dante Virtual Soundcard software)
Awsome demo sir,thanku😊
Nice video, i have 2,4,8,12,16,24 channel snakes for different use
Nice 👍
I use LYXPro CAT6 cable for my PreSonus ecosystem
Yes, LYXPro is a good brand.
beautiful console, in university have a SONY V324 the old perfect machine, but i dont work know 100%.
Yes, the Sony V324 is old, but it is a great console. Thank you for the comment.
I really enjoy y'all's videos! I am a huge proponent of using hard-wired analog everywhere we can get away with it. Digital snakes do have their perks but I've had more problems in the past with digital and network based snakes than I've ever had with running straight copper. I do have a serious concern though. Around the 7:50 timestamp are you suggesting that you run DMX signal through an audio XLR line? That's highly inadvisable and you could seriously cause damage to either the light or more likely the bored and that's if it even works. 3-pin XLR audio cable is NOT at all the same as 3-pin DMX cable. If this is indeed your common practice then I'd strongly urge yall to not. Your bound to run into trouble.
Just trying to look out! I do enjoy and appreciate the content.
Thank you for the great comment! I'm hoping (at some point) console manufacturers will be more open to adopting an open audio communications standard (like AVB). We don't use digital snakes for many reasons. We greatly prefer wired.
Good observation regarding DMX! Currently, we only offer basic stage-wash PAR-64 LED color-changers. The moving-head / scanner type of DMX fixtures we had were more "sensitive" to line noise than non-moving fixtures like the PAR-can lights. Our LED PAR-cans (older Chauvet PAR-64 mid-grade fixtures) are wired together using DMX cables. The last PAR-can fixture in-line has a signal-terminator attached. This setup (using the snake to pass DMX) has been 100% error free for many years. I agree, DMX issues can occur if using non-DMX cables, but I also question if the quality of the DMX fixture has something to do with it as well. If our customers need something more than a basic color-changing stage-wash, we'll use one of the lighting companies we work with.
I do have a wireless DMX setup, but that brought about other issues.
Thank again for your great comments!
👍☑ Tks
How exactly do you switch an input to an output on the snake and is there some type of routing of the channel required?
To switch an input to an output is accomplished by using an XLR gender-changer. I keep several of those changers in the tool-box for the occasional switch. Also, using a different type of gender-changer, an output can be converted to an input. There's no special routing of the channel, outside of what is normal and what is expected when using a gender-changer. For example, I use a gender-changer to connect my lighting controller (DMX protocol) to a snake. This allows me to use the snake to send DMX signals from FOH (where the lighting controller is) to the stage, where the lighting gear is.
@@stageleftaudio Thanks
Do you make soldering ends & etc yourself or are you just buy ready snake cable from shop?
We buy ready made. Most any cable shop has the standard lengths. Though, we will fix connectors (at the head or fan-out) if something should happen.
how to roll up to store the cable? (snake) or all cables
Do you already have a video showing it? thanks guy!
Coiling the cables (and snakes) is just like coiling rope. These cables like to "turn on their own"... just follow that turn and the cable will coil easily.
We do not have any videos covering how to coil cables. We may at a later date.
Am I wrong but DMX is different ohm's vs xlr cables so how would a snake work with DMX ?
The distance the DMX signal travels (in our setups) is rather short. All the cables we use for lighting (cans, interconnects, feeders) is DMX cable (except for when we use the snake). Problems start occurring when the DMX signal has to travel long distances and route through many fixtures... all with using standard XLR cables. Any events we do that requires a lot of lighting, we sub-contract that.
7:55 hi can you talk about doing cardioid sub and how to properly set it up thanks!!
We may be able to do something in the near future covering this.
I have seen people post that you shouldn’t use the returns on an analog snake for powered speakers or powered subs. I had never heard this before until recently, any truth or reason why people are saying this?
Using the returns on an analog snake is how the signal gets from FOH to the powered speakers (or amplifiers) at the stage. This is what a snake is designed for and how it is used.
Though, there are some people that may try to use their snakes to send amplified power over (from an amplifier at FOH) to passive speakers at the stage. This would be an example of NOT to use the snake to send watts (amplified signals) through. This could overheat an amplifier due to the resistance in the cables.
Why run a mono setup though? I never got that. I get more flexibility running a stereo setup.
Good question. Stereo only works for very small setups. The problem with running stereo in larger venues has to do with physics. Also, when panning inputs to L or R to make a good "image", this only impacts the people sitting between the speakers from around the front of the stage to the back of the room, as well as the FOH location. This equates to half the audience hearing either less or more of a particular instrument due to it being panned. The concept of stereo does NOT scale well beyond a small room.
Take a look at an article by Bob McCarthy (link below). He talks about why stereo does not work. Bob McCarthy is an expert on physics in audio. He explains it well...
bobmccarthy.com/the-emperors-new-stereo/
@@stageleftaudio I've only ever done small to medium size spaces, and low attendance outdoor venues (with only a couple exceptions). Stereo has always worked great for the gigs I do.
For sure, in those setups stereo would work. If the crowd can hear both speakers (L/R) at nearly the same time, stereo can be a good option.
How long are the velcro wraps for your 32/8 snake?
I think they are about 24" (61cm).
Check out this company for your cabling and other needs.