Does the Freqport Freqtube make ANY SENSE?
Vložit
- čas přidán 28. 07. 2023
- Check Freqport here (direct): www.freqport.com
► Hire me to work on your music: whiteseastudio.com/
►Thomann affiliate: whiteseastudio.com/thomann
►Sweetwater affiliate: whiteseastudio.com/sweetwater
►Plugin Boutique Affiliate: whiteseastudio.com/boutique
►Become a member: / @whiteseastudio - Jak na to + styl
In the analog days we spent our money trying to eliminate distortion, noise and hiss.
Now we miss those things and spend our money trying to achieve them.
Lesson...listeners dig distortion. : )
I bought it and its amazing. Its sounds so warm clear and adds a lot of depth to almost everything.
Compared to plugins or compared to other saturation hardware units? Im kinda interested too, seems like a no-brainer but not sure yet...
I love the idea of this box and have been considering picking one up. But I would like it more if it had a transformer section as well. This is where a lot of the “warmth” and “3-D” sound people describe with analog comes from. Alternately, the box could come with a stereo insert section that you could run to other gear and select it before or after the tube stage. Anyway, I still like seeing someone think outside the rack.
I thought for £200-£300 it might be a nice little thing to have in an all digital arsenal where you try to keep studio size fairly minimal too - but for £799 it's a bit much.
I've no idea how they're going to sell any of these for that price point.
@@RJ1J There are audio engineers serious about audio out there.
Something often overlooked:
Vintage tube circuits had both input and output transformers to isolate the circuits from dangerous voltages. It’s most likely that the analog sound comes from the transformers since tubes have an almost identical transfer curve as a JFET. So something like this that has only tubes with no transformers probably wont get you the sound you want.
I have one, it sounds very nice- but good point!!
It is very unlikely that two completely different analog technological pieces based on completely different phenomenon and material properties would have identical transfer curves. But you are correct that transformers do shape the signal in their own way too.
FETs are more like pentodes. A triode is quite a bit different. I know a few designers have used FETs to simulate valves in analogue guitar amp sims, but they're not a drop in replacement and need quite a bit to work to sound similar.
I think you're right though, a transformer with a saturated core will add a ton more colouration and harmonics, so the valve alone won't be the complete picture.
When we consider that the most lusted after analogue gear was actually fairly linear and high fidelity, you're unlikely to be really overdriving it unless you're specifically after that sound as an effect.
I have a TL Audio C1 valve compressor, and a couple of Ivory compressors too. They actually use VCA chips to do the gain control, with the valves only used for added colouration. The C1 sounds glorious, and it is totally transformerless.
Glen Fricker (SpectreSoundStudios) did a thing debunking power tubes sounding different. They were just louder >_> Even in Positive Grid's BIAS software, it reacts like that. But you can also change between "American" and "British" transformers, so there's definitely something to that.
I looked in to this unit a few months back for bus duties. I decided to go with a pair of tube pres that I can drive / trim and use Logics I/O to patch them anywhere I need. Perfect solution for me.
which specific unit did you go for ?
Yet another thing to be obsolete at whatever time the manufacturer decides to stop supporting it.
negative nancy 🤡🤡
Ashilliate links is a good one! I actually like the idea of this product (making analog acessible for non-analogue setups), but I don't see any more need for this than any other analog saturation box. Just another pretty little thing that takes away space and needs regular dusting.
PS: But I do believe turning knobs is superior for workflow and intuition. I use my controller whereever possible/reasonable. Especially for EQ, levels, panning and sending to FX.
Have you seen the Elsktron Analog Heat? Thanks for the video
What I'm thinking is, if you can record an analogue saturated or distorted sound on a digital recorder (or daw) with no aliasing then it must be possible to model the saturation in the digital domain. In both cases the final recording is digital. 🙂
Capturing and producing are two different things. But still, the aliasing issue can be tackled in a way that it's inaudible - even over multiple tracks (with reasonable settings). So no, nobody needs hardware for mixing and mastering, unless he wants to impress clients. It's a luxury. In production it's a bit different, because it offers (next to) zero latency. (in my well tested and unwavering opinion)
Oversampling works really well with 48Khz, better than at 96Khz and above for the reasons you provide. With the introduction of filters, just 4x should be way more than enough to remove almost all aliasing at 48Khz (providing the filters are actually good), and if you have to goto 8 it's not a crazy jump in cpu overhead eaten up like if you go from 4-8x when running in 192 for example. Where you start to need exponentially increasingly more cpu power the higher the sample rate. Using a lower sample rate can have some of it's own drawbacks though too. I've been contemplating running dual sample rate projects for this reason (well running a higher one but processing some audio in a lower rate), I need to think over if this is going to cause any extra issues, but at the moment flipping between multiples of 48Khz depending on what I'm doing seems feasible and not detrimental. A bit of a pain in the ass though. xD
Good point. It would be useful if plugin manufacturers told us what they optimized their plugins for. But you're right, usually it will probably be 48kHz. One drawback of 48kHz is that the latency when tracking anything through plugins will be higher than at 96kHz.
I can't find any information about what latency looks like in real use. The word "low" doesn't mean anything. I've seen "low" describe latencies of 100-200 ms in other products, which would not be acceptable in most of my applications.
The solution I'm testing right now is to use a tube buffer, the kind used by audiophiles to "warm up" the sound coming out of their digital players. It came with a Chinese stereo tube but I've replaced it with new old stock tube made in the 70's. So, I can bounce my mixes through this box. Plugin doctor reveals that it makes some barely audible harmonics, to my ears it does tame a little bit some highs that sound too brittle.
I use a mini tube buffer sometimes. You might find that the old tube has drifted out of spec over the decades which will cause nonlinearities that work well with some sources but not others. In my case I prefer a new Chinese or Russian tube for bass and an old stock tube for other signals.
@@sparella I chose my NOS tube based on a thorough review which describes the sonic characteristics. They are 1978's 6N23P from Voskhod
Would love to see a comparison with the GHz Tupe plugin. These guys use 6 realistic tubes and circuits to model their plugin. Nice to have a hand heater, but for 1000 €/$ ??
I may do this, but i dont have a youtube chanell. I found fabfilter saturn comes closest to mine
I don't understand; why can't a plugin check the frequency of the produced harmonic before producing it, and if above 20kHz, end the harmonic generating logic?
Very interesting. I like the idea
Thanks for the interesting video. Certain digital distortions manage to put the aliasing noise under the -100dB threshold and make it inaudible (just tested a popular one). This costs CPU time, but not that much on modern computers. Still I hear comments like “this sounds too digital”, so I wonder if there’s another ”magic ingredient” in analog equipment. Hints?
To my ears your track sounds natural, but few plugins do as well. What’s your own opinion/feeling? How would you compare the FT-1 sound to a pure digital distortion?
I've wondered about this too..my theory is that over the course of multiple tracks, the aliasing starts to add up.
@@jordancraighead Oh it sure does add up, Sam talked about this specifically in the oversampling video: czcams.com/video/qh-ybrG0qIg/video.html
Depends on your settings. IF you gainstage correctly, don't drive the saturation too hard over multiple instances, run your session at 96 kHz, and/or use oversampling the Aliasing will stay inaudible with all good and mediocre plugins - even over multiple tracks. Yes, it "adds up", but not in a way that becomes audible, because the sources are different and thus the harmonics fold back at different frequencies (and at different times...). In other words: If we imagine aliasing to be body fat, multiple sources of fat would not all accumulate in the belly, but distribute themselves more or less randomly across the body. Thus - as long as you're not gaining A LOT of fat, even though the amount of fat increases, it doesn't become more visible.
There are other issues that can occur in digital. Like for example EQ cramping (that can be fixed too). More audible differences are not based on the difference between analog and digital, they are based on the individual differences between units. Analog frequency curves often roll off the highend for example. Once you know what you're looking for, you can create a sound that "sounds analog" in the box, or a sound that "sounds digital" in analog.
@@SchoenerShortBeats The crazy thing about that is 96k only gets you one octave over 48k since pitch is logarithmic.
@@jordancraighead Yes, our human brains are very bad when it comes to logarithmic relations, thus, it seems "crazy". Here is another logarithmic relation only few people know: Did you know, that in order for it to become X °C warmer due to the greenhouse effect, the amount of CO2-Saturation (that is already really high) in the atmosphere would need to double? (Assuming all other factors stay the same, which they don't) Thus the effect CO2 emissions have on the climate decreases logarithmically.
Off-Topic: Where is the guitar sample from playing at: 6:49? :)
hi, I wanted to know if hardware has the ability to work with pentode and triade?
I don t understand the math and the algorithm, but why can t we stop creating harmonics before the nquyst?
That's what the oversampling and the filters are meant to achieve, extending nyquist higher up and cutting off the wave before it passes nyquist and folding back down far up enough from the audible range that it doesn't effect it. Not all distortion/saturation plug ins do this though (more and more are starting too however). I think it's quite difficult to achieve well, or at least the lack of good filters on a LOT of plug ins would suggest this anyway. It can be done though and a fair few good plug ins do exactly this. AT the same time though, oversampling uses how ever many times more of your cpu power, so 4x oversampling will use up 4x cpu. An I9 12900k can only run like 4 instances of some plug ins with x16 oversampling at 192Khz, so if a lot of plug ins are using over sampling and you use a high sample rate, you'll run into the limitations pretty quickly. Most people don't work like this however, but some do.
Yes i understand what oversampling do and the goal, but what i dont understand (and it s because i don t know the math and the coding) is why (before oversampling and filter and downsampling) can t you just say/code "if my harmonics i m trying to create is over a certain frequency (nquyst) , just don t add it" ?
@@ardierr.2525 that is what a filter is basically.
@@ardierr.2525you can’t just ”code in harmonics”. Proggramming isn’t just ”addHarmonics(signal);” and it works. Harmonics are most often ”added” with a some type of waveshaper algorithm that essentially takes the signal volume at a sample point and puts it through some nonlinear function. The harmonics appear, because the waveform’s shape changes and sometimes that shape consists of frequencies that are above the nyquist, and so we have aliasing. It’s just how it works, how physics work, how digital audio works exc. No-one is going in there and adding harmonics one by one, not even by proggramming
It is possible to only add, say the second harmonic, but if the signal contains frequencies above 10k there will still be aliasing. Its not possible (or at least feasible) to add harmonics differently for different frequencies in the spectrum. However some synthesizers do this. That's what a bandlimited oscillator is.
am i getting this mistaken, can the takes not be automated for freezing and other i/o’s for ex
Most interesting thing to me is that it doesn't seem to work as an audio device, so you don't have to use aggregate devices or one of the even shittier Windows solutions. That was my assumption at first.
That was a beautiful song choice tocdemonstrate this piece of equipment
Well. Doesn’t Analog Heat do the same more or less? Like analog distortion between ad da converters and a plugin? Ok there is no tube.
There's a "crazy" idea i've been thinking a while ago.... What about using a tube headphone amplifier as a pre??? Has anyone tried it before???
So with no analogue IO you basically have to rely on whatever cheap conversion it has included. Whats the point?
Why do you think it’s “cheap” conversion? “Expensive” converters aren’t even expensive these days.
How is this better than Saturn 2?
Wondering how this holds up against something like the Elektron Analog Heat!
Same!
The Analog Heat is Distortion and not with Tubes inside. A bit hard to compare Distortion to Tube Saturation and Harmonics I would say. But im sure interrested to see what comes out of such test. I have both Analog Heat and Freqtube FT-1 and both units to me are very good for the purpose they are made. Freqtube run as 4 instances wich is very cool or 2x stereo and I think its worth the money.
@@IbogaRecordsMusic that's a very good point. I have the Elysia Karacter which if you crank it all the way up goes pretty hard towards distortion, hence the idea.
Elektron analog heat... is an alternative for analog distortion and I prefer it.. it has analog in and outputs...
Distortion and Saturation is not the same, why compare the 2 different products.
@@IbogaRecordsMusic because it does also saturation in analog domain. Saturation is one of the analog circuits available with the analog heat. And saturation and distortion are somehow related ...
You can use Elektrons analog heat in a mastering chain to ad analog warmth.
I use Analog Heat as well and i love it, but it does not saturate with Tubes like Freqtube FT-1. The tubes also give u a nice suttke compression. For me its 2 very different products.
I own this n like the difference it makes to my music.. Much better than plugins
We totally agree. Its worth every penny and you can tun it as 4 individual mono channels or 2 stereo…
Wow the price is real analog too...
Totally off-topic but I need to know. Did anyone else sang "Baby Shark" during the guitar demo part??? Just asking for a sanity check. Thanks in advance.
I'd swear I saw a video on this thing recently called "this is for you". Did you delete it?
Did not delete it
@@Whiteseastudio odd, can't find it anymore. Must be overlooking it :)
I like your shirt!
I test on normal pa see how it sound
I was in the analog "side" too...But finally I realized that you can achieve any same result as the analog using plugins.... You just have to find the right ones... Thats my very own personal experience....
If a UAD Studer/ATR & FF Saturn is good enough for disclosure, they’re good enough for me lol
Disclosure use some analog gear on the front-end tho’.
(Not saying that plugins aren’t good, just thought I’d point that out just in case).
@@WheelieMix for sure though albeit not much, on some of their biggest tracks the most they’ve used is some analog to digital converters maybe used some analog processing on the mix in general like when they used the SSL fusion on their track “waterfall” on the 2 bus which you can get in an SSL plug-in go watch some of their breakdowns I mean for god sake “Settle” was completely mixed with stock logic plugins on the first go round, then most likely had a bit of hardware processing done in mastering
@@WheelieMix then people like J Joshua mix completely in the box, does analog give you specific sound … sure does ? The overall point tho you know what you’re doing you can do all that stuff in the box and casual music listeners won’t know the difference
Oh yes sure, I just pointed that out because I’ve been with them in the studio (only once). and I had to handle and store some of their studio gear. My experience is limited but I thought it could be helpful :).
And yes I actually handle that SSL Fusion, apparently Guy liked it from he briefly told me.
Disclaimer : I don’t know them personally at all.
Oh and they like analog synths too ;).
In my day job, I'm a software engineer, but I still just like analogue. And I especially just like valves. I prefer it if those valves are in a compressor or guitar amp, but I can see some appeal of D/A -> valve -> A/D.
All I’ve ever wanted in life is an outboard Decapitator.
100% agree. But there are options like Black Box HG-2, Overstayer Saturator NT02A, Thermionic Culture Vulture, etc... But I think the whole point of Decapitator is so you don't have to go and buy all the hardware units they based the plugin off.
yikes, 4 starved plate tubes that require software to use... lets check in after 6 years! haha
Audio nerds are kinda silly, when it comes to the big picture. Sometimes, just to test the masses, I'll go to one of my bother's clubs (really nice audio systems) and play songs that switch from analog to digital mixes repeatedly, and no one has ever noticed, so far. I laugh at it while it's happening, but it also kinda makes me feel like why do I even bother. Yes, it's for the client/s, but for most people consuming the product/music it doesn't mean a damn thing, so long as it's listenable.
That said, I'm going to keep at it. Such is art.
Tbh do whatever makes you feel good.
Anything that could make it feel less like a job is something worth doing to me ✌️.
Tone Projects Kelvin
I’d rather the Apb 16 tubes is something you have to maintain.
oof for the AUD, this is $1000 Freedom Bucks. But anyway, while this is really cool, I don't need a $1000 heater in my living room lol.
But thanks for sharing! :D
I love the way Freqtube ft 1 sounds it’s a warm analog sound. I don’t get this sound with plugins I don’t care what anyone says and I use acustica audio, softube and a bunch of others
But do you use UAD? 😁
@@c3r1c38 I do have some UAD stuff as well
I'd love to set up a blind test for people that claim such things. I'm convinced this is mostly psychoacoustical and thus they wouldn't be able to tell which is digital and which is analog consistently.
@@akagerhard I can say that about any hardware vs software most don’t have the ear for it anyway I think it’s all subjective and I like what I like and I know what I hear
Lack of analog I/O feels like a big missed opportunity.
A-shill-iate links? 11:03. LOL. Cheers from SoCal.
I think human brain isn't naturally made for complexity and I feel a new generation will love the more digital flat low dynamics sound maybe even out of nostalgia (which is crazy to think about) and that the analog complex sound will be outdated for a while. It's a whole new paradigm. It's scary but that's how I imagine things in the next decade... But it's just a cycle.
The human brain is most used to perceiving sounds from the natural environment, which are highly complex in frequency content, dynamics, and temporal information. For example, human speech in all languages and even animal vocalizations (e.g., even birdsong) contains many fast formant transitions. Simple, pure, flat sounds (such as those that can only be produced digitally) are by far the most artificial, unnatural, and new to the historical evolution of the human brain. This is very likely why the complex harmonic distortion that comes from analog hardware gear, compared to digital sources, is found to be more pleasant by most people and is still highly sought after (despite being so expensive) even after more than four decades of digital sound. Sorry, I'm a neuroscientist who studies music and auditory processing in the human brain. Hope this is interesting in some way to your thoughts. Cheers!
@@cortical1 Very interesting. Thanks for sharing some knowledge.
@@kutnersuicide Thanks for hearing my two cents. I like your prediction that the younger generation of listeners may prefer the flatter, more digital sound, especially as it becomes more nostalgic for them. You very well might be right. Time will tell. 👍🏻
@@cortical1I think the same could be said for visual stimuli, yet the trend toward flat icons, logos, buttons in UIs seems to indicate a similar direction. I hope it's just a fashion trend and look forward to the return to gradients and shading.
yeah sorry not convinced about this unit. Its a cool idea but gimmicky. For that price I would rather buy a couple of good 500 series pre's (which will have actual transformers).
ive never been this early wow
Dude! With all respect. I‘m tired about oversampling.
Comment for da algorithm
Streak count: 168
baby shark do to do do to do.
When you make statements like "when it comes to saturation and distortion we're not there yet" - that's when I have issues with your delivery. SOME plugins are not there yet, some are. I think it's problematic when people make such claims as general statements instead of opinions, because it makes people that trust these people believe they NEED analog for saturation or distortion and they really, really, really don't. Analog is touchable and has (next to) zero latency - that's that in my opinion. I don't believe there is a person in this world that can tell analog saturation apart from digital saturation when the settings are ACTUALLY matched (unless there is audible aliasing involved). I know I can't and I TRIED HARD.
So PLEASE, fellow producers and mixing engineers DO NOT believe you need hardware in order to take your mixing to the next level! Some of the best mixes have been done 100% in the box. Don't waste your money, don't write your lack of knowledge and skill off as a lack of resources.
Maybe mixed in the box but probably recorded via analog hardware.
@@johnmills8200 Well, you can't record voices without at least a mic and preamp. So yes, most of them probably include at least a bit of analog hardware.
I would disagree on the part about the settings being matched, unless you are saying by ear, because plugins and the gear they are simulating often sound different at matched settings. I'd agree if it is just two songs mixed well and to the best of their ability. On top of this, the final song is all that matters... the analog or digital version only exists if you present it. Not all distortion plugins have to clone analog gear either. I like coldfire by arturia, and I don't believe it is emulating any specific analog equipment and don't particularly care. It even has aliasing distortion as an option. The plugin sounds and is really cool.
I'm sorry but just buy a tube amplifier and run your sounds through that. I have a fender baseman head that I love for this. I also have a lot of JFET and other transistor style guitar pedals that I process things through that I obtained for a fraction of the price of this product. This seems very gimmicky when there are already so many options that beat it out and that have been around forever.
*Edit*
A million misspellings
This product is in that area that in few years ahead, no oone will be interested. It is not as practical as computers, nor is interesting to who use analogs gear.
a bit of a joke product for nearly £1k : (
Yes is a cool product but again, without analog connection is impossible to use for example in a serial routing with other outboard gear, things that I really want to do in mastering.
I don’t really get this design choice as well. How much more expensive would this be if it features i/o? Now this is not really interesting for people who work partly or fully analog which is a shame as it’s otherwise a good sounding box.
@@cl1xor I think that was a choice of the manifacture cause with USB audio you can insert like a plugin and bypass on the fly...with analog connections, you cannot insert like a plugin cause you have to physically connect I/O and the routing will be more complicated for a not "pro" user.
Not true
Completely subjective but your mixes are already too distorted/saturated. I know it is helpful to push the equipment that's being reviewed beyond what you would normally just to show its charecter. So many good songs recently suffer from a mastering engineer applying too many harmonics. Just a little opens stuff up but too much just crushes the dimensionality. This will eventually disapear but at the moment it's fashionable. Just apply this tool to individual channels. Not whole mixes imo (it's also worth mentioning, I have no idea what i'm talking about)
A bit funny that you dont have a analog studio in the right way, 100+ mics, pre=amps, real compressors, drum rooms, vocal boxes, a giant hall for recording reverb and so on. Then you would have a real reason for connecting that tape machine and a giant automated console. Finally you could record a track digitally and remaster it digitally without letting it depend on a weak A/D-D/A bottleneck issue because of quality issue's of a D/A converter. And i even wont talk about all the analog crap you would place between of it. Thats not remastering, its sound quality degradation. If you where into HI-FI you would understand this.
Still sounds like crap to me but okay.
Thank you for this analysis but take some time and energy to evaluate what is supposed to be in your setup. This is clearly not a product for you! It's not all your gear that will supplant this product just as your review of the Schertler console is inappropriate. You have to know how to evaluate what is within your reach, and in this case, this product is not within your reach, in the sense that it is aimed at an audience that does not have as much qualitative material as the here. It is therefore difficult to establish a review based on the targeted audience. or you establish a very selective audience and that says a very selective audience, says material, very selective and out of reach just like your setup.
Dude...smh....Why dont you jsut use
Nebula and Acustica Audio?
Jam
Taupe
Pres Colors and Saturation
APEX by Cupwise
Apex Tape Collection
ATE Saturation Bundle by By Alex B
Tim Ps
J37 and Reg Studer Tape
and Henery O "Mojo"
These 10 Plugins together are only $500 and way more saturation options...and all live analog sampled with all of thier analog harmonic distortion...
Why would you pay $800-$1100 for that? Mind Boggling...come on bro...just go get nebula and acustica audio saturators...its so much easier and they sound great and authintic....
I'll never understand why people purposely want to make their tracks sound like they've been recorded wrong. I've got a silk setting on my Neve preamp..... It's constantly switched off, I hate it!
Define "recorded wrong". Complete genres are based on heavy distortion, like gabber house, pounding Detroit techno/Berlin/Birmingham.
@@noisevector Are they? That's nice....
What if your life was extended a few hundred years? Could you potentially understand in 300 years?
@@benmorrow1701 Nurse, he's out of bed again!
@@CircusNormal kk