Drawing Conclusions: Is renting really a waste of money?
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- If you've ever wondered why some people think renting is better than owning, here's the explanation behind how that can be true. (Note - this video was published in 2015 and there have been changes in the housing market since)
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If your net worth is only $35k and you think it's ok to buy a $500,000 home, then no amount of CZcams video is going to help you.
Mtn Stock it's a hypothetical you moron.
It's a misinformed hypothetical at best.
Keep your personal attacks for the short bus.
+Mtn Stock damn right!
Mtn Stock many many ppl do. My ex made me get a home with 3.5% down and a variable interest rate mortgage. I said this is fucking stupid. We are divorced now and didn't have any money left.
Crystal Rafferty That's sad, modern marriage my ass. Hope you at least don't have to pay alimony.
Problem number one- Owen bought a house he couldn't afford
Lester Moe
Sure did.
BlackWorldTraveler and the mortgage payment in this scenario was obviously on a much more expensive house than the house in the rent payment.
Lester Moe agree ye
my neighbor bored an apartment in 1985 in lauderdale by the sea florida for 90 thousand plus maintenance and taxes and she sold the apartment 30 years later means 2 years ago for 90 thousand she lost a lot of money
Lester Moe exactly
He forgot one character, Lenny the Losing Landlord. Who rents out a $500k home for $2100 ?
Was looking for this comment. 3 minutes in and the analysis is shot because of this miscalculation.
and most of those 500,000 dollar houses in my town were worth only 86,000 dollars not too long ago and are over 200 years old.
Some landlords in high-cost areas like Toronto rent property at a monthly cash-flow loss and hope to make up for it with price appreciation instead. Also, investment properties have much higher downpayment requirements than primary resience mortgages so the landlord's mortgage payments would be a lot less. Rental property mortgages require 20% down, not 5%.
Landlords rent out for what the market will bear, or they won't rent out at all. That may be enough to keep the property cashflow-positive, or not; obviously they'll try, but it's by no means a guarantee.
Source: Am a landlord, also a finance counsellor who speaks to a lot of landlords across the country.
There are reasonable reasons for an owner to establish a rental property with a negative cash flow. Every situation is unique. You could luck out. Roger lucked out. Using his luck to extrapolate a conclusion regarding renting vs. buying is silly. It would be much easier to make the case that inflated housing prices will fall and crush owners while providing great entrance opportunities for new buyers. That’s a logical argument that I could support.
THE PERSONAL REASONS WHY I PREFER RENTING TO MORTGAGING A HOUSE
SCALABILITY
Renting encourages me to frequently evaluate my needs vs wants. For example, I often ask myself questions such as should I buy another TV for the bedroom or just invest the funds to continue building my net worth? This attribute helps me save money implicitly by occupying just the space I need at any given time and scaling up when I need to. A house is like a hard drive, in that no matter how big it is, given enough time, you will always find a way to fill it up. Outfitting a spare room (because you have it) costs money, and in most cases, the purchases would be wants as opposed to needs.
FLEXIBILITY
Renting gives me the option to go into a lease only if I am comfortable with it. I can choose to only go for rolling monthly contracts or leases with an appropriate get-out clause. And if a location stops making financial sense, I just leave, as per the contractual terms.
Also, with renting I can quickly change locations to take advantage of career opportunities. This attribute made it possible for me to quickly relocate a while ago to take advantage of a fully-funded Cybersecurity PhD position in one of the top ten universities in the world.
CERTAINTY
The fixed nature of rent payments makes it easier for me to follow the ‘Pay Yourself First’ ideology as I do not have to worry about any taxes, maintenance, or other surprise bills related to living costs. This allows me to consistently invest a predetermined amount into index funds, bonds, or REITs monthly. The strategy is to go for competitive rentals that allow me to invest 50% of my income or at least an amount that is not lower than the monthly rent I am currently. This way I will always stay financially ahead, steadily securing that average annual 7% real return.
PORTABILITY
Renting and investing allows me to manage my investment portfolio from any location in the world with just an internet connection.
DIY
Given that I prefer to mind my own business, renting and investing allows me to manage my investments exactly how I want to, and I do not have to consult or work with anyone to do so.
Furthermore, my investment portfolio makes it possible to reap the benefits of the real estate market through REIT funds without the accompanying hassle (and allied potential drama) of having to deal with tenants, property management agents and other parties.
FREEDOM
As an individual that values debt freedom and peace of mind above all else, renting and investing makes it possible to secure my future without being on the hook to the bank for decades. It is personally a more appealing strategy to live freely knowing that I can always cover my living expenses using the passive income generated from a healthy and heritable investment portfolio than to sign up for a loan that typically takes decades to repay.
Also, renting and growing strong investments means that in my golden years, I can (without interacting with any form of mortgage debt) simply pay cash for a house and settle down - if I choose to.
Having said that, always remember that there are many ways to achieve the same goal; 3 + 2 is equal to 5, but so is 4 + 1. So, do you and I will do me.
@@YahsLittleFlock Thank you.
As a poor person this is how I see it.
When you rent someone does ultimately have control. If a dryer breaks or a washing machine breaks you are at the mercy of management and maintenance to fix it. If your apartment forms leaks, cockroaches, whatever you are at the mercy of everyone around you.
In order to have stability you need bargaining power, when renting you don't have bargaining power, especially if you are poor.
A lot of these apartment complexes I see in Denver are complete slum lords.
Also when you own a property you can work on your own car and do your own oil changes.
Idk having a property is just nice.
It all looks good on paper. But we all know life is full of suprises.
yes but,you need a paper to be ready for suprises.
Like Karen taking my house and kids
Absolutely man u got it right
That's correct!
You very right coz once you get fired from work,they will come n tell you about rent.they gonna take your instalment car too.where are you gonna go?🙆🙆🙆🙆🙆
I trapped myself in debt. I moved into my vehicle. All the money I had been paying in rent went to eliminating debt. Extreme, I grant you - but it worked. Lived out of truck stops. Then I bought a large caravan and the boss (Transport) invited me to live on the premises. Free. it's been six years now. He likes having someone on site every night (it improves security). Now, I am completely (not a cent) debt free, no rent, free electricity, free water, no commuting, no grass to mow and every week I drop $500 dollars into my super or (401k). Got my life back. I can't believe something I planned worked.
Glad it worked out for you. Enjoy that sunset and the margarita. Once in a blue moon, you can travel to cool places with the peace of mind too.
That is the way to do it! I would recommend not putting all of your eggs in the 401k basket though. If there is a crash you will be the first to lose.
At 50% the normal tax rate here, I'm willing to roll those dice :)
Diversify your retirement investments (401K, saving accounts, mutual funds, ), David maybe you should try index mutual funds, etc. definitely diversify your portfolio.......
So how do your wife and kids feel about it? :)
Lets just jump to year 30.
Owners house is worth $3 M with zero mortgage
Renters rent is now 9K a month.
Yeah because living in the same place for 30 years must be awesome...
@I'm Mikey that cant be true. ppl pay 0 in property tax in norway for properties worth 400k.
Let's jump to year 50.
Inflation caused a housing crisis and house owners can't sell their house
@@user-ln2kc7yn7v said house owner waits for things to stabilize and sells at the end of housing crisis and is now a multimillionaire lol
@@DonDio6 I hit 25 years this June... I love it!!!!!
Over the years, I’ve channeled my investments to stocks and real estate, both have been great investments so far, the answer comes down to your financial means, risk tolerance, personality, and ongoing returns.
I still prefer real estate over stocks. Perhaps it’s because I had a front row seat watching so much carnage during the 2000 dotcom bubble and the 2008-2009 financial crisis that has me jaded.
@@joerobert1801 I firmly believe everyone striving for financial independence should own both stocks and real estate. The percentage weighting of each asset class as part of your portfolio will then be up to you to decide.
@@joerobert1801 At least with stocks, when the market is plunging, you can sell, albeit at a loss. I retired with a 7 figure portfolio and receiving about $400k annual earnings from my investment coach Frost Hilda, and this earnings are profits from consistent trading in stocks. I have been in the stock market about 4 years. Am I worried? Am I selling? Absolutely not. I bought my first house with those profits. I am going to sit back because my investment and consistent profits actually calms me down. Eye on the prize, stay the course!
@@seanroger6954 great move buddy, I have purchased growth stocks too a little at a time over the past few weeks.
@@seanroger6954 I’m aware of Frost Hilda, how long has he been handling your investments and how has he enhanced your earnings?
If you only have 35,000 in your liquid bank account, you shouldn’t be buying a 500,000 house
James c In the US, he wouldn't be approved for that mortgage.
You spoke my mind
Lol good point
The thing is nobody has $35,000 in their liquid bank account. That's only a small portion of the population. I don't know why this video exists to appeal to renters when renters rent because they can't afford to own, like it's going to convince us to buy pointing out how it's the better option when in reality we don't buy not because we're uneducated about renting vs. buying but because we can't afford either lol. Personally I can't afford to rent a room, let alone rent an apartment or buy a house. Not even banks carry $35,000 on hand anymore lol.
Astibus Gaming Dam you can't afford rent? Hope your situation improves
This video makes me want to just live in a van and just camp out in nature for $10 a night.
BLM land in the USA is free. Now you know why so many Americans and not a few Canadians are living in their RV or van.
@@dwightstjohn6927 😂😂😂
Tim L I’m sure they jacked up the rate like everything else… Any idea how much it would cost? I like this idea!
That’s 3,650 dollars a year hell yeah
live out of country
You're telling me that it costs the owner of the identical house 3,220 a month, and they only charge their tenant 2,100 in rent?
Exactly...when has rent ever been lower than the mortgage
Right? In my area, a $500,000 house would rent for roughly $3,250/mo. I have no idea where he pulled that $2,100 from...
My 2 cents - owner can’t make this argument with tenant since why would tenant care about this? And I guess rent amount should be in line with what’s appropriate in market at that time. Any further point of view on this is welcomed.
Where I live, 1bd apartments are around 450-650K + 200-400 HOA a month.
On the other hand, rents are ~2000-2300.
YES...this is the glaring hole in this video...If the house cost 3,200/month to buy NO ONE would rent it for 2,100.
i came for answers. i left with intense confusion
Deadass yo😭
That's because everybody's situation is different. Say that you are convinced that buying a home is what's best but you're not financially prepared. You're in debt. You don't have an emergency fund or your home has expensive problems that drain your emergency fund. In addition, something comes up and you need to move. You might also live in an area where house prices are astronomical and even with a down payment, your mortgage payment is way more than you can afford. If any of this scenario fits you, renting makes more sense. Also, everyone who tells you that buying a home is better always assumes that the house is an asset that you can sell and get your money back. That's not always true. I have known people who have had to pay for two living situations because their house wouldn't sell or the potential buyer backed out at the last minute. Now they're screwed. However, if you are financially prepared to buy a home or house prices go down in your area, buying a home might make more sense. Bottom line: don't let anybody talk you into anything without knowing the full cost of it.
English is my third language but I still find the video make perfect sense. All in all, it depends on YOUR financial goal. For someone diligent with updating their investment portfolio renting could be an alright choice, but for someone who's not as diligent they would be better off buying a house and invest in illiquid asset such as a house.
It makes perfect sense wym?
That's because this video is a pack of fabrications. Look at the overall financials of homeowners vs renters. Homeowners win every time. As long. as you buy within your budget, especially when you consider the ridiculously low mortgage rates available today, in 25 years you will outpace renters by a large margin. I am not a real estate agent, I am a property owner. I have three properties; a rental, a cabin in the woods and my primary residence. My current assets far outweigh my liabilities. I suspect the producers of this video own, or invest in, rental properties.
Screw this, I think I am just gonna go live in a cardboard box.
Can I rent half of it. I'm a minimalist.
Make it a third I'm moving in too
+Linda Newton I think a lot of us may be doing that soon, whether by choice or otherwise.
you can save a lot of money.
Sharing economy rocks!
Plot twist: Roger rents at Owen's place
Bwahahaha! Good one!
At which point Roger would be paying Owen's mortgage for him, so Owen would certainly be better off financially.
I was assuming Owen had a spare room. I would certainly hope so for those house prices! :D
TheOneLichemperor not really as, according to this video, the rent is less than the mortgage
Still, he would be covering a large portion of the mortgage. I'm not minded to watch the video again to find out how much. ^^'
They forgot to include big repair costs, such as replacing a roof, or a chimney, having to tent the home for pests, or an uninsurable natural disaster. The renter never has to worry about any repairs. If there is such repairs, the landlords have to pay for the tenants hotels. The landlords are responsible for all liability on their property, even though they don't live there. Don't ever become a landlord! It isn't worth it, ever!
Hey, they're assuming $520ish per month in maintenance, so, that does cover roof/chimney costs. I'm a LL of 3 houses, when we changed the roof (fully covered by insurance), the tenants didn't have to leave.
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In real life you also have awful landlords who couldn't care less about the state of the house and won't life a finger to have it repaired. They probably do not live there, after all.
or
just get a new build with a guarantee... lol
Investing make up the top notch hemisphere of the wealth. That's the more reason one should save and invest to secure profit and ensure success
You’re right investing now should be at the top of every wise individuals list because in few years you'll be ecstatic with the decision you made now
True💯
Nowadays its hard to find what to invest if not a huge money on real estate lol
For me Investments like stock and forex has become very profitable and very good options in securing a better financial life that's where I belong and survive from
@@coldfusiionassistant270 Exactly Many top dogs out there do it, i mean that’s why they are at the “TOP”. I really feel everyone looking to get some financial security should make forex and bitcoin investments.
What if Owen the owner doesn’t sell the house after paying off the mortgage? He can keep it for 5-10 years and won’t have to pay any mortgage, whereas Roger would still be paying rent.
Or even buy another house and rent the original house
but the renter will have an investement portfolio making larger gains than the appreciation on the house.
Owen could also rent out his old property which could make him some more money each month. Overall, good vid tho since owning a house for 25+ years is kinda what the average person does (especially with 30-year long mortgages).
@@politcallycorrect5816 but the owner can start putting the equivalent of the mortgage into his own investment portfolio once the house is bought
@@feandil666 but the renter already has a large portfolio that would take a long time to catch up to as the buyer
Well if the owner hadn't borrowed a ridiculous 95% on a 500k home, and lived in a reasonable 200-250k home, he'd be far better off than a renter
We may all be missing this man's uncanny ability to write in perfect Comic Sans on a plaster wall!
He's not writing it bro! Why you confuse me
@@pearlgrover1317 I think it’s a joke but maybe I’m crazy
During the coronavirus crisis, they both lost their jobs. Roger was doing fine with close to half a million in investments so he never have to move out. Owen couldn't pay the mortgage. The bank repossessed his house and ended up with nothing.
😂😂😂😂
Absolutely right....how many families already lost there homes since COVID started
@@jorgemojica4026 depends where you live in the world. Australian's had it pretty good and didn't really lose anything. All you had to do was talk with the bank and they understood. The government gave everyone who lost their jobs $1500 a fortnight for almost 10 months to help. Very rarely did anyone lose their house lol.
Roger invested in the airline industry and travel agencies.
The government gave mortgage forbearance to people they don’t have to make any payments for up to like 15 months. The current proposed bailouts for homeowners could also extend the loan term by up to 40 years meaning they can reduce their mortgage payments by up to half decreasing their DTI potentially allowing them to buy a new home and rent out their first one and get a bunch more tax benefits.
This is under the assumption that rent costs less than a mortgage payment. Where I live, rent is about 1.5x - 2x the cost of mortgage. You can pay $1000/month on mortgage, or $2000/month on rent. The typical renter is also in a lower wage bracket. This means that around 75% off a person's income may be going to rent. It doesn't leave much left to invest.
KeeganTheMagician sure but how long are the amortization periods of those mortgages?
30 year mortgages. I'm talking about a $200,000 - $250,000 house. There are no low end rentals where a person can pay as low as a mortgage payment.
KeeganTheMagician Where do you live?
+sgtsnakeeyes11 probably since he is a magician ,somewhere in lala land !!
KeeganTheMagician here in orange county morgage would be 3700.00
it's all under one condition: DON'T GET DIVORCED. 😂
find the right person, make sure your legally protected if you owned the property your self
Or don't get married. :P Single home owner here and happy. If a girl does come into my life I will want to make a prenup I think.
not think, do it, its a no brainer, seriously she can ruin you, also you will find what her intentions are, if she said NO, and gives all the excuses in the world, GET AWAY FROM THAT PERSON, i know love is blind but use your brain
you will know what she is up tp
1) of you are already married you both own half the house. 2) if you get married and own a home, do a prenuptial. 3) if you divorced you don't "lose" the whole house, and may only owe alimony or child support if you don't split child rearing equally.
you are not correct there, if its done with good lawyer and is a contract out prenup, all done legally , no problem
Most renters are big time investors in properties and in the foreign marketplace. Both choices are lucrative business on the long run.
I’m highly interested in investing. I’m interested in Real estate and stock market. I’ve a clue about how to start investing in stocks with a company. I know it is a lucrative business
There are more rewarding treasures in the marketplace.
Jessica there are few active brokers that one can use to simplify the process and make remunerative income. I can show you how it is done
Please do tell!
Def Dave it gets better when you are working with the right people. Investing with an expert doesn’t just change your experience but it helps you realize possible ways to earn from the market. I know have. The chances are enormous.
Also at the end of 25 years the owner actually has a home. The renter might have money but nothing he can buy at market value because the houses are now over 1 million.
The renter has $950,000. He can buy a house similar to Owen's. (under the original set of assumptions)
@@brianhill8976 the renter wont have $950,000 because he wouldn’t be able to save as much, because the rent is not fixed at 2,100 but increases every year
@@aimenaldarkhobi8366 Yeah but they didn’t mention renovating, maintenance, … If you live in a house of $500 000 you wil at least spend 50 grand on that house.
@@IzzyTaps 50,000$ on what man? I have been living in a house for 20 years and all we spent is new roof + painting (10,000$) and new AC unit (3,000$). Thats it. What u need 50,000$ for ??
@@aimenaldarkhobi8366 You never know what the next 5 years brings you. But that was an estimate. And small things add up, I’m 100% sure those aren’t your only cost.
TLDR: It depends...
LOL, thanks for saving me 8 and a half minutes
Owen is also responsible for upkeep and repairs. Roger is not. If the neighborhood goes to hell then Owen's property value will not be as high as estimated in 25 years. If better job or financial opportunities in another part of the country/world pop up Roger is in a better situation to relocate. Owen by having a house not being paid for can't just up and leave unless he can afford to have 2 locations to pay for.
Todd Johnson you can sell the house and then pay the mortgage with that money.
Charlie Depending on the market it could take months or years to sell a home. If someone is needing to sell to move to another city or state they may be stuck in that home till it can be sold and miss out on opportunities elsewhere. By renting you are free to relocate more or less on a whim. Many people are upside down in their homes, meaning what they owe on the home is greater than the market value of the home. So they can't afford to sell.
if owen leaves, he can rent his house out to Roger and let Roger pay down the mortgage, why do you think he would have 2 locations to pay for?
Ask ChrisCano Owen will still have to budget for 2 homes. If Roger doesn't pay his rent on time or at all, Owen will have to cover that cost till he can get the rent from Roger. Any maintenance repairs Owen will also have to cover as well as insurance. If Roger damages the property Owen will have to pay for repairs till he can get a settlement from Roger. If Owen does not live near his rental property he will have to pay for a management company to take care of it. As well as lawn care. If the property is in a good location to rent out for a week or weekend rate such as for vacations or sporting events it might be okay. But it may sit empty so Owen will still have to budget for 2 homes.
if roger doesnt pay his rent he'll be homeless....so he loses before owen does.....
I don't know about other people but here's my experience in the past 10 years. I moved to Texas from California and bought a 3 bedroom home (small house) for $69,990. I lived there for 10 years and my mortgage payment was $484 a month (30 years plan). After 10 years, I decided to move to the east coast and sold that house for $109,990. So I assumed I pay $484 X 12 month X 10 years = $58,080 MINUS $40,000 (gain back from the selling the home) = $18,080. I lived in that house for 10 years and pay only $18,080 / 120 month = $150.66 per month. I think I won.
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58,080 is mostly interest, then add the maintenance cost and taxes(if not included in the payment)
He explains this in such a balanced way leaving the decision to an individual
That’s why I like being poor. I don’t have to worry about any of this cuz I gots no money to begin with.
Funny story. I used to be poor. I paid $400 or $500 per month for a room in a five bedroom house in an upper middle class neighborhood. That was cheap for my area. Some month I had less than $100 for food. Anyway the houses in that neighborhood used to sell for around $250,000 but had shot up to $600,000 in just a few years and a lot of people were buying them and moving in with boats and RVs and so on thanks to sub prime rate loans. I was looking out the window one day wondering "How do these people afford $600,000 houses and boats and RVs?" And then I realized....they couldn't. All of my neighbors were seriously in debt and and had negative net worth and as poor as I was, I was technically the richest person on the block.
I am polish, i immigrated to Switzerland, worked there, having income around 80k CHF( > 80k $)a year, then I bought 120k $ house in my city and 2 apartament for rent, one in my town another in a capital. Got no mortgage, my monthly rent income is about 800€ what means I don;t have to work any more. Instead I am constantly developing my skills. I was in the U.S too, but as an illegal allien worked 10$/h wage. Didn't save much.
I am 36 now. Got education, properties, know foreign languages, but had to work for it life long. Morover my property tax is 40$ a year here in PL. that;s sweet
Krzysztof P Lewandowski!!!!!!
Munchen - used to work there too.
Monthly rent income of 800 euros? 1500zl per property? What are you renting out, a castle?
moral of the story is, get rich then buy the house cash.
Internet Marketing World
Yes, but if you don't want to pay property taxes for your house buy in another country!!
Because if you pay property taxes the house is never yours. Even if you pay the house off!
J Prewitt
Right, how is it "ownership" if the city can still take your shit?
Wait where are you living while getting rich? A box?
with mom.
This is my goal, and with my financial strategy, it's going to happen in about 5 years.
Some intangibles:
Cost of maintaining a home is far more than what was calculated. You can be insured up the yin yang but you’ll still have large costs for every little and big thing that goes wrong. Sprinklers, gardening, roof, leaks and leak damage. If you live in a fire hazard area extra insurance and mandatory brush clearance. If you live in an earthquake zone then possibly extra insurance for that. Property taxes go up almost annually here in California. Currently at 1.25%.
As far as renting, you can move as many times as you want and not incur the huge taxes and commissions. Downsides to renting is noise and the inevitable noisy neighbors and other privacy issues. Assuming most will rent a flat bs a house.
I agree. As someone who has moved house 10 times in the last 11 years, it greatly depends on your lifestyle. We have bought and sold 3 houses in this time, not making the same mistake again. We wont buy again until we know we will settle. Hopefully it will be a cash buy since we are saving on a major mortgage and paying very low rent.
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mtheron100 Cash buy is ideal. When finding a house most people just calculate if they have the 20% down and if they can afford the mortgage. Result being they end up buying a house that’s going to cost them hundreds of thousands in interest and mandatory insurance. Best to purchase what you can afford and forgo mortgages. Even if it means living in a less desirable area or in a smaller domicile.
@@mtheron100 Noone really "owns" a home anyways. The government makes you rent using taxes
I have heard horror stories with people renting though. If you are poor there are a LOT of slum lords that will straight up try to rob you or take advantage of you.
Assuming that rent is a flat fee is also a mistake IMO.
I'm 48years old living in California, I'm hoping to retire at 50 if things keep going well for me. Bought my third house last month and I can't be more proud that am i now. I'm glad I made great decision about my finances that changed me forever but now I can't seem to make any other smart investment.
I can feel your pains. New guys need to realize the risks that come with all of this. You could lose it all and you could win it all. It goes both ways. Second, what works for A may not necessarily work for B and you should not be a bandwagon investor. A good number of folks are raking in huge 6 figure gains in this downtrend, but such strategies are mostly successfully executed by folks with in depth market knowledge.
@@sherryie2 Factos!! Since the market became extremely volatile and pressure increased (I should be retiring in 17 months), I took the decision to work closely with a financial advisor. It has already been 9 months and counting, and I have made approximately 600K net from all of my holdings.
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You never really own your home, if you didn’t pay taxes they’ll take your house.
When you rent, a portion of that rent money goes toward taxes of the company you are renting from.....therefore, you cannot get away from taxes. The difference is that once you pay off the home, you no longer have that extra cost, but if you rented, then you have no asset at the end.
Rental rates usually are far more than mortgage rates, but when you add in taxes and interest, it may seem like it's a waste, but that's because people are not taught math properly. I was renting a 3br/2ba apartment in my area for $1200/mo, which was middle priced and good community. I worked with an agent for over a year to look for something that would fit my budget....and I now own this 4br/2ba home with a garage and decent land. My mortgage, interest, taxes AND insurance total cost less than $1150/mo. Even if the home was over my rental rate, the home is still an asset....the going rate for room rentals in my area are $110 per day, or $500 per month if I wanted to, you can't do that (legally) with an apartment (known as subletting). After 30 years and the house is paid off, my "rent" (taxes and insurance) will go down to less than $200/mo....while rental properties will still be climbing. 30 years at the apartment, you still have nothing to bargain, no asset, you leave and you get absolutely nothing.
For argument sake, if I were to add in all of the maintenance costs and repairs for the next 30 years, that still would only amount to an average of $50/mo extra....but to play devil's advocate and say that it was $200, if you were to rent at 1200 and save the 150 in a 5% compound interest account instead of buying the home at 1150 with a 200 maintenance lockup: after 30 years, you will have $125,508. This assumes that your rent will NEVER go up (hardly believable) or that you will consistently save (that's why renters always drive ferraris, right?). After the 30 years are up, if the homeowner is now paying only 200 plus 200 in maintenance, it allows them to save 950/mo....it would take only another 9 years to reach that amount, or 21 years to surpass the renter (if they were both still investing).
In order for 5% to match paycheck of $2,500 in order to live without a job, the renter would need to save for 57.6 years. The homeowner only has to match the paycheck of $1700 because they don't have a 1200/mo rent expense, so they only have to save for 20.6 years, a total of 50.6 years, 7 years ahead of the renter in retirement.
This ignores many things though, like refinancing at 15 and 30 year marks for investment growth capital, state and federal tax benefits for homeowners, and inflation rates that wouldn't affect mortgages.
@@sabriath thank you!
@samantha tang renting is burning money dumb ass.
@@JohnDoe-ql9pf Yes
Month old but if you dont pay your landlords taxes, the scenario is no different. It's part of your rent.
The main factor you missed with the house is a wife. She will want new paint, new kitchen, new floors, etc every 5-10yrs. A new kitchen is an easy 50k and even things like paint adds up. The accessories like lawnmower, snowblower, fixing stuff when your kids accidentally break it, new couches etc to keep in style. That is where the real home ownership costs come in. No one buys a house and only pays the mortgage for 25yrs. In real life the homeowners will take a line of credit on the house or even a second mortgage to cover all the other bullshit they buy. Owning a house is only more profitable if you can pay it off in under 15 yrs and plan on living there with barely any charges for at least 30yrs. Especially since you'll have extra money to invest once the mortgage is paid off. Now it makes sense. Any other way is basically a money pit.
best comment by far.
A wife!! HAHAHAHAHAHA I love your comment :)
Yeah the wife is most definitely a liability
root I don't live in Ohio or somewhere garbage where the entire house is 50k. Most kitchens with just decent materials are 50k and nicer counter tops, fixtures, etc would be about 70k. Just the counter top alone would be at least 10k without any labour costs. The kitchens are super expensive, man.
Shame we can't tax deduct wives. :D
There are so many variables that anyone could “what if” this all day. Either way is fine. I happen to be a owner and when you have a house that’s paid off, that’s where you really start to make a difference.
Thats exactly what I was going to say.
I'm 5 years away from no mortgage, and only 50 years old then.
Thats when the renting angle sucks!
9187348756913 that’s awesome. My wife and I are 52/55. We made our last house payment in Dec of 2018. It’s amazing how fast your wealth accumulates when you pay yourself and not the bank.
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@Ray it's called commitment issues
The renter could win in the long run if he is smart with his money and doesn’t blow it on coke every weekend
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Good luck finding better returns than the housing market.
hhiippiittyy already have several 🤭
@@australia5766 if they save their money under the mattress, for sure the house will be worth more in 25 years. But many assets don’t need 25 years to outperform investing in a house 🤫
@@australia5766 never mentioned anything about saving $ in bank accounts in any of my previous comments lol 😂 . Point is, It’s not the 1970s, so many better investment avenues out there today than real estate.
1. Watch this video
2. Buy a gaming laptop
3. Download Origin and purchase Sims all edition ($1000)
4. Build your dream house
5. Anxiety free, freedom, retire early
Arsene Wenger 6. Stay a virgin
I did this, I can totally vouch that it works 100%
The good answer is: it depend, both are valuable
Can't believe you didn't call the other guy Rodger the Lodger
Wren the Renter?
The social cost of not owning a house is much more dangerous. You have to suffer from the stare from your aunties at every christmas party.
You just discovered the most expensive thing ever. Caring what other people think of you. Think how many multi billion dollar industries exist for that one reason. Those billions were ours at one time. If you manage to stop caring what others think of you that's a bigger advantage in life than a collage degree and cost a lot less.
@@frankcoffey lol or your job is gone and then you are on the street.
Covid is a wake up call for those living the rental life and an alarm about housing crisis.
Ridiculously inflated real estate prices deny people of having a home.
@@frankcoffey And you just forgot what is most valuable in our short lives. Acceptance in our close social environment. True and sincere acceptance, cannot be bought, and it's the main ingredient in a "happy life".
@@Sophie-go3ql "most valuable", "True and sincere acceptance", it´s really lame that you are part of a specific group that will only consider you based on what you have and not what you can offer as a person
@@danielpinilla7131 Thanks Daniel, but "i'm being very honest when I say that i could not interpret your comment, perhaps it's also the luck of clarity in my original comment that may have caused some confusion. So,,, allow me to start again by explaining this in a simplistic manner. A few years ago while on vacation in a Mediterranean country, I came across two people having a conversation at the local coffee shop. the one person was showing off by listing all his wealth (land, cars, boat, money etc) to the other person. And when the other person was asked "and how wealthy are you ?" he replied,,, "I am exceedingly wealthy because most everyone i know in the village is a "good friend", and even people from the neighbouring village are good friends, and I as well as they, will never stop helping and caring for each other".
So,,, the point i was trying to make, is that what is more valuable than a house and other material possessions, is one's success in being accepted "as a friend" among those one socializes with.
Sorry for the long message.
One point is missing: rent in Toronto nearly doubled in the last 25 years. It doesn’t increase at the rate of inflation
Because children of baby boomers are buying. Wait till they are ready to retire and downsize.
@@MsBlonde0000 actually its because everyone needs to live and we arent born with good credit, so landlord gouge us
Val Celin
I have NEWS for you.
It wasn't the LAST 25 years ... The next 25 years will see a doubling every 8 years over that period.
Had it been the LAST 25 years as you imagined then the crisis would be over.
You have to learn what the word LAST means in the English language.
In my language LAST means LAST ... There BEING no more to follow.
When there is more to follow it CANNOT BE LAST. Get the point!
Do the math. 2.5% over 25 years is about double.
@@bromine35 Exactly. I find everyone that's nuts about real estate is financially and mathematically illiterate
Bought a house + guest unit in 2009 for $285K lived in the guest unit and fixed up and rent the main house. In 2013, I moved to the main house and rented the guest unit. Made about 80K in rent and put about 80k in fixing it up, no loss. Put it up for sale this month Nov, 2017 Sold for $820K Cash, no appraisals in just 14 days. Don't believe this shit, it's all about location & hard work.
Andrew Debasque you were in the same boat I’m in, I have had developers banging on the door for two years now I just don’t want to sell. Being able to do a lot of the improvements and maintenance yourself goes a long way.
Let's see where you will be in 17 years if you do not sell.
+ Aristotle Stagirus That's the way to do it. Now, I live in a very nice 3bed unit in Santa Monica near the beach which rose 40% since I bought it. That said, the MOST important thing to remember is don't listen to the noise like the comments from above, like "you just rode a bubble" and "what if you waited 17 years" LOL knuckleheads. It's nonsense, from people that don't know what it's really like to put all you money, sweat and tears into a property and build equity and know the right time to sell.
North East LA, the hottest section right now.
Have you factor your labor ?
Also, 2009 to 2017 portfolio fund would've netted you at LEAST 10+% each year.
All in all, it is a wash at best.
Morale of this story: if you can lock in a 500k house, capped at 2100 in rent for 30 years...You should do it.
4:45 "we assume his rent increases with inflation every year"
I moved country and doubled my salary a few years after graduated. 30 years is a huge gamble for opportunities elsewhere. Or selling them at loss and waste years of invest.
@@tarquin161234 It's a bad assumption. Inflation does not include rent in its common basket and rent has gone up at a rate much higher than inflation since the 1970s. It's one of the core reasons that while people appear to be doing well wrt inflation when compared to the past, in practice they are not. It would have been a lot safer to use the same 3.5% rate that was used for housing price since rental rates historically track to that fairly well. The difference between 2% and 3.5% is a huge one. In the end this is an investment choice issue. If housing prices go up it's a huge win, if they fall it's a huge loss. The rest is noise.
I find that a lot of house owners especially those owning multiple property (mostly for rent) advise you to go down the rental route .... weird huh? 🤔
its a trick that the rich elite doesnt want you to know about.
first rule of real estate don't turn your customers into competitors. Do the opposite
Well one thing that being a renter most people don't consider is you pay a cost for peace of mind. In a good apartment complex that has well scheduled maintenance and on call repair guys, there's not a lot to worry about. If you own your own home, or you rent to others you have to deal with all the bullshit that comes with that. If your appliances break, you have to replace them. If your pipes crack and start leaking into your ceiling, you have to fix them and then redo your ceiling from the water damage. If your tent is an asshole and claims it's unsafe to live there, that there is mold, and mice and they try to sue you for it, you have to go to court to take care of it. These are all experiences that have happened to me personally or close family members. Idealistically, yes home ownership is the smarter financial option over time on paper mathematically. However, just as the creator of this video said there are a lot of variables to consider. How many people do you know ever lived an idealistic life where they didn't get divorced and have to sell their home? What about a house fire burning all your assets (insurance doesn't do a very good job at covering all your costs, again this happened to one of my relatives). I have one relative that has lived in about 8 houses in his adult life eating those closing costs just like the man in the video said. People often lose their jobs and have to move somewhere else just to keep a living. So my point is, at least with renting you don't have to deal with any worries about leaving things behind and moving on to the next place and you don't have to worry about having costs to fix something if it breaks.
@@gameragedad8953 it also depends what generation you had to live , my parents did the right thing in buying a house , cause it was achievable for most sectors of society (with a bit of effort of course) , nowadays it has become an endeavour that only a few can afford. A 30 year mortgage has sadly become common place, leaving people in their mid-thirties with debt until they are almost 70. This has become one of the least spoken injustices of our lifetime. I already know that I will never own a house out of my own volition cause I don't want to be in debt almost until I die.
@@miggu My mom will be paying her mortgage till the day she dies unfortunately.
I think I"ll just buy a Detroit suburb and declare it an independent country.
The property tax's would crush you.
i assume if he declares independence, he won't be paying taxes to the US government
Didn't we try that in 1861 ?
They're municiple tax's, no feds involved.
And declaring independence isn't the same thing as getting independence.
not possible in USA, the confederacy tried that, after the most devastating war in the history of the USA, they totally lost
“When you buy, you’re actually STILL renting” (0:54)
Thank-you! This is why the government uses Owner Equivalent Rent (OER) for its inflation calculation. Long in explanation and short in understanding, most people remain forever clueless on this topic
In what world are you renting a $500,000 house for $2,100?
A lot of different places.
@@casparandechs4758 pretty much anywhere in the western US besides California.
Downtown Los Angeles.... I live in a $600,000~ studio with a 2,500 rent
Seattle, Vancouver, Bay Area. Currently renting a 1.3M 2br/2ba 20th floor high rise apartment (in September 2020) for 3.2k/mo in Seattle. It's super nice, but I have a roommate and could never afford to buy here.
In Alberta, Manitoba, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia...Canada
25 years is just a Break Even Point for the two. What happen next, i believe Owen had an advantage. He can keep full amount of his former monthly payment, plus a peace of mind.
At that point there would definitely have been several major renovations needed on the house, so it's not that clear cut.
Average home ownership timeframe is below 25 years. Their figure is DRASTICALLY higher than typical ownership: THREE TIMES ABOVE the average (8y) and TWO times above the median. (13y) [And that's actually far higher than a decade ago]
@@nobigdeal4me numbers are not accurate. Owen could have get it wayy cheaper if he was good at negociating. Big + if you have a real estate compagny, you can use depreciation to pay no taxes which is a major difference between both of them
@@vicolin86 I don't think Vancouver is a "typical" model for growth given how explosive the real estate market has been there with infusion of money from Asia.
I worked every extra hour of overtime offered to me for 20yrs, bought my house in cash at 35. I have no mortgage. My main fear of renting came with retirement, you can’t retire comfortably as a renter.
Owning my house significantly lowers my monthly cost and I can put that difference into my employer matched 401k, I know that I’ll be worry-free when I can retire.
Edit: I never plan on selling and moving. I deliberately bought a property in the remote woodland.
Also, lastly, in real life,you need sliders on the analysis. Your answer is very different if the rent is $2,300 vs. $2,100. Also, your mortgage rate, the amount of downpayment, and your credit has a huge impact on your interest rate, which in turn has an incredible impact on your return.
IrvineMPAc Group and the fact that there is no way someone is renting the same house for $2100. The rent has been absolutely lowballed. Rent is typically the same as what someone who owns would pay per month. And that means this whole video is crap because the renter has an end result of renting for 25 years with next to nothing to show for it.
But when you are getting old and still have to pay for rent its sucks.
Most people in their old age end up renting
I AGREE WHOLE HEARTEDLY
Something called retiring from a job or career and you’ll still get a paycheck each month
If you own a home you still have to pay property taxes every month no matter what. So it doesn’t matter the greedy government will fuck you.
And you dont know how long you are going to live. It’s enormous pressure.
This video has taught me that owning a home is definitely better. Exactly the clarity i needed to make up my mind!!!
The social validation and security that come with owning a home are priceless 💖
Got it on my iPhone 8 and it's working great, Thanks for the tutorial bro.
The assumption is that renters use their disposable income to invest. I don’t know many renters who are investing that much of their disposable income. Buying a house in a good location is a great long term investment.
Most people who rent barely have any disposable income to speak of.
@@TheButterMinecart1 Most of the time when someone is renting, they are living check to check and "disposable income" is only a myth to them. To them, "investing" is only a luxury granted to the wealthy property owners.
Any of the wealthy, investing renters are just poisoning the rental market with their ability to pay higher rents, they price out people have no choice but to rent, and then there are more homeless on the street.
Wealthy renters screw things up for poor renters.
Exactly. If you take the difference from rent to mortgage and invest it consistently and over time--you can come out ahead as a renter. But how many do this? I know I do and others interested in FIRE (financial independence, early retirement), do it too. But mainstream crowd? Probably not.
@@ninetyminutestd More importantly, rent rates are higher than mortgage rates so this whole concept is a lie. Renters can't get ahead like this unless they inherit a rental agreement from a parent in New York.
@@nufangld That's not always true. My rent for an apartment is lower than mortgage/HOA/insurance for a condo. And I didn't have to fork over 65K in a down payment. Situations vary, rent or buy at whatever evaluation is best for you.
Who the hell rents a 500k house for 2100? Can you put me in touch with them bc I have a bridge for sale.
The #'s in the illustration are WAY off, he said a 5 year mortgage.....also, agree $2100 would not get a 500K house where I live....if you can even rent one
I'd rent a $500,000 house for like 4,000-5,000 a month
Can i rent the bridge instead?
brianisfromvegas I would guess someone that owned it for a long time. It's paid off ??? Idk.
Rotflprovax That’s terrible, my grandmother experienced a similar situation as yours.
Thank you so much. This is the video I had been searching for.
1) Live "below" your means.
2) Get a 30 year mortgage you can afford very easily if faced with hard times, but Pay your mortgage off quickly if you can. I paid mine off in 9 years, the bank was pissed.
3) If you own your home and things go bad. You only have to come up with utilities, insurance and taxes.
4) Your home is kinda like a savings account, you have financial equity.
But...
5) Never barrow against your house! Never put something as important as your home on the line.
Wise words.
Enjoy your shitty home and being poor.
Agreed people miss this part. Living under means is key a home paid off has more opportunities in future. The same investments a renter can make while renting is the same investments a homeowner who paid off home in 15 years can make with no mortgage anymore. Homeownership builds generational wealth.
Both got married and have kids. Total net worth: NEGATIVE
Raymond Sim truuuuu
Plus a nice divorce, and the house is gone.
So true
But itsbpaid of with cute kids and lovely wife.
Know what is missing here? The next 20 years. Renter is paying $4,000+ per month for rent for the rest of his life. Buyer now owns his home and lives there rent free. Pays property tax and maintenance but that is it. He takes the difference $4,000 - $1500 = $2,500 the first year. He invests that every month over the next 20 years. Renter's rent keeps increasing and in 20 years is now at $6,000 per month. Net worth in that example is now far in favor of the buyer vs. the renter. Think longer term.
Not sure what it's like outside the US but US also has huge tax write offs for mortgage interest and mortgage insurance. At least it would be huge for these numbers and the income you'd need.
Housing should be regulated and controlled by the government. The present system is just another ponzi scheme like the stock market. Mortgages and rents have caused untold misery for decades.
What if you need to move for work. I've know people who got stuck with two houses for many years. Also maintenance costs can balloon when a house gets old. Did you allow for that? I've been in places where the housing market is very hot for a long period of time -- apartment rents flattened out for long periods to compete. Finally, there is no guarantee that the house will appreciate.
In the US it's already highly regulated in many ways. That and the central banks ruin everything, prices and debt skyrocket. Their fake debt driven economy bursts every so often causing even more misery.
@binkyxz3 You can sell a house and use the payment (someone else's loan usually) to pay off the mortgage. The only time you can't is when you're underwater--when housing prices drop (like 2008 here) and you can't get enough to pay off the mortgage (never mind keep your equity).
So the lesson here is, owning a house may be financially better in many ways, but it's also a RISK. You're in the housing market. If you know you don't want/need to move, owning (a single home, not a second one--tax write offs in the US only apply to the primary) quite often makes sense. If you're likely to move--renting is a safer option.
Every time I see these comparisons it’s always just for the time of the mortgage. What happens after? The owner just has to pay taxes and upkeep. The renter is still paying rent which keeps going up over time. And as for the mortgage, you can pay that down faster, like by making bimonthly payments, saving interest and shaving time off the mortgage without an increase in the amount you pay each month. That won’t save you anything renting. Now at the end of the mortgage, Owen can invest all that extra and be living large while his brother next door wonders if his investments will be enough to get him by in retirement with high rent in the mix.
Exactly… as a long term renter facing sky rocketing rent costs I don’t have housing security heading into my older years. Current costs for a one bed apartment in my city already far exceed 30 percent of my income. So in 15 years…who knows!!
Taxes and upkeep go up as well especially due to inflation. If you have a mortgage or pay taxes you don't really own your home. You are either renting money from the bank or renting land from the government
The owner better sign a prenuptial agreement before getting married
Just not get married at all...
@@manumaster1990 Or don't get married for stupid reasons.
Major flaw. Renters are subject to increases in rent. After 10 years. And a mortgage doesn’t cost 1000 more than rent. This is deceptive at best
Although if Roger remains in the property, his rent is only subject to the fixed rental increase (atleast in Ontario). So if his ladlord does increase his rent yearly (some landlords don't if it's a private lease and they like their tenant) you can only expect an increase of 1.8% per year.
Yes and there’s way more expenses not mentioned with owning such as a new roof, the time and money to maintain, updating appliances, yard keeping, fixing that old pipe... and the countless hours spent doing it yourself (or paying exorbitant amounts for someone else to do it and losing a little self-respect) haha. So it’s pretty even up really.
wrong on so many different ways...
What about house maintenance costs then?
This comparison is fairly decent. And nowhere does it claim to be exact. It’s proving the principle that renting could be a good option. Don’t forget you might buy into an area that goes down after 10years - the what? Renters can move quickly. Owners can’t.
D.B. buying a house is always the best option because u built your asset, net worth and value in your life..
Screw this. I'm happy living in my honda oddysey and l.a fitness for taking a shower.
MrDeathprof but that’s assuming your living alone what if you want more people around you
My friend does that, she loves that life.
Yes, that makes you smart. Tiny home is growing on me but there is still a lot of kinks and bureaucracy to work out.
seriously. More and more people are doing this. Makes sense these days. Lets say Roger the renter took his 35k and invested half of that into a used hightop van, Then put the $1,000 hes saving from not renting into his investment portfolios. Now his investment portfolio is much larger after 25 years, and now Roger the renter gets to travel full time, and see all the beauty this country has to offer. Roger also has less to worry about and manage. Roger would have to worry about his apartment, AND his daily driver vehicle. Owen would have to worry about his rental property, tenants wrecking his home, repairs and maintenance not only on his rental property, but his actual home and his daily driver vehicle. By living in a van, the only thing you have to maintain and worry about is your vehicle, and sipping on mix drinks on the beach. Ultimately, Roger is happier. haha
Heres the deal, most people value peoples opinions more than they do their own happiness. "What will people think of me if i live in a van? People will think im a loser... " Fuck em'! Do what makes you happy! What else is the point of living?
@@drzoidberg844 Like a wife? Because that's fun, especially when 3 in 4 marriages end in divorce.
An aspect that often gets overlooked is that the appreciation of your home is nothing that you can cash out when you live in your home and therefor meaningless. It is only relevant when you sell the home but then you have to buy a new home and those homes probably appreciated as well and you won't get the same money that you paid for the house in total so your gains are cancelled out again.
When you rent and invest the money then you have the money in cash and after those 25-30 years you can take the revenue from your cash investment to pay your rent and even have some disposable money left. What would you rather have: A home that is fully paid off but you still have the attached costs with owning and property tax, maintenance, insurance, etc or 500k in a deposit that generates you a pay out of like $2916 (using the 7% of the example in the video). That revenue will cover the rent and you will even have more than a thousand dollars in disposable money every month while living in a comparable home. Again. Your house can appreciate all it wants as long as you keep living in there yourself and therefor not selling it you don't benefit from the appreciation at all.
So you can either have a home that you own but have no cash left or you could pay rent from your revenue and have even more cash available for yourself while living essentially free (due to your investments).
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I've watched this video when it came out and I'm watching it again in 2023 and I have to say wow this is amazing.
The equation does miss out on some numbers but it's amazing for audiences to understand the basics of how everything is calculated. I would LOVE to see an updated version.
Those $500k homes are all gone now but maybe something's have changed where it's possible to make it work.
Most people the choose the rental option won't contribute to a portfolio.
Mark Conley Haha. My thought too!
That is irrelevant whether they would or wouldnt. The option is there and thus must be considered
The other problem is, most people who take up renting are generally in that position because they can't afford to purchase a house. In that case, they certainly wouldn't have the disposable income to do heavy investing. If they wanted to make this explanation more balanced they should've added a "Sally/Sam the Spender" to the lineup of what-ifs, then they could've had a better teaching lesson for the majority of people watching that could more closely relate to it. The number of comments I've seen where it was stated that they "stopped watching" (myself included) is evidence that the content is hardly relatable and, in that regard, a failure.
GravitySpec I agree.
ewan andrew the video is full of stupid options to consider, what if this what if that. What if I could have my 8 minutes back...
May I point out, after 25 years, both Owen and Roger wil stilll need a place to live. If Owen doesn't sell his house, his only living expenses will be property tax and insurance. Owen's mortgage will be paid off. Owen will have reduced cost of living for the rest of his life, which might be another 25 - 30 years which is excellent because after retirement, there is reduced income. If an emergency comes up, Owen can use the equity in his home for a loan. After retirement, Owen has an option to sell his owned home (which likely has greatly increased in value) and buy a less expensive home in a less expensive smaller city and live on the money he has profited as well as being mortgage/rent free. Roger's rent will never go away and it's most likely that Roger's rent will be much larger: rent ALWAYS goes UP! Rent and the cost of living always increases.
THANK YOU!!!.
finally someone gets it.
roger isn,t done after 25 years, roger still has rent to pay.
where as owen can spend the money he normally paid as mortgage on whatever investment or retirement plan he wants.
+he has a house as backup where as roger has exactly shit.
renting is throwing money away, people still don,t see that its mindboggling.
everytime you pay rent its money that you will never ever see back in any shape or form.
aztekkthundergod When you say "100% absolutely false" do you mean that because your rent hasn't gone up in 10 years, no one else's rent has gone up?
My rent in a nice rental condo has also never increased in 10 years. It's important to have that clause added to the original contract. As long as I stay here my monthly rent will never increase. That being said I know my rent is substantially lower than that of people who move into the condo now.
Dave B. Wowas!! Congratulations Dave! I've never heard of a clause like that on a renters/leasing contract. Did you request that, or was it there when the contract was presented to you?
You're missing the point
roger has a million dollars too. roger can buy a house now if he wants and have no/minimal mortgage and he's not behind what he would have been had he purchased 25 years ago.
Fundamental thinking error! Roger has to pay rent AND HAVE AN INVESTMENT PORTFOLIO to compete with Owen. So he must be putting in a LOT MORE to be on the same playing field
Wasn't the idea that he was just putting in the difference in rent?
@@willceurvels yeah, he didn't get it.
A very thoughtful comparison.
Let's be honest, the only way owning a home or renting is not a liability in 2017 is if your home is a tent from Bass Pro located next to a creek where no one knows where you are.
Jacques Nicolay lol true
Jacques Nicolay ROFL
@@emadzaamout you're lost in translation buddy
I actually bought a small cheap home and focused on paying it even dough I could have spent all my earnings on a bigger one. Finished paying it in 8 years, meanwhile keep earning for the mansion. Now my down payment on the mansion is bigger, this means a lower more affordable mortgage for the house I wanted 10 years ago. I have basically 2 properties, I'm renting the small one and living in the other one, rent on first helps me pay the second. Payed sort of a high rent on the first one, now it's mine and now I am paying a fare mortgage for the big one which is technically also mine. You just need to know how to play your hand to get the most out of it.
imgabnun no you just need to stay single and not get married or you wouldn't have anything of what you have. A wife will take away everything you have built everything and leave you with the oldest car you own the pairs of shoes you own the very little amount of money you stashed out of the bank and leave you with the only option left buying a camper like the guy from that show lethal weapon or moving into a mobile trailer home in a trailer camp and still paying her alimony.
Chase money not women.
luis casillas oh my (hehehe) sounds like you had a bad experience, I'm sorry to hear that. Not my case, I still wish you the best.
Vivid X nop. Why there?
I rented for a year after divorce. I never thought the place was mine. The day I moved in I had a pile of pictures in a cupboard, they were still there the day I moved out. The worst year of my life.
A good video and I know its from 2015 and the housing market is much stronger now. Main thing to take away from this in my mind is that this works only if your rent is lower than a mortgage would be. In some places that's reasonable, but in most large cities your rent will be just at what the homeowner pay for the mortgage. In which case, you don't have the extra income to invest, and will end at a far lower net worth.
What happens when you have always rented, then you retire with a modest pension.
A pension for which a large chunk is taken by your rent. Then the rent will increase, while your pension doesn't ?
Exactly. My mortgage will never increase and I can refinance.
Which means you pay mortgage interests for longer. If your pension sucks, then you should invest better. A pension is just a safe portfolio and as all portfolios, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Of course your pension will increase to match inflation. And, to this entire videos point, you are smart and didnt bet the horse cart and all the eggs in the same pension basket. You have a balanced ETF portfolio with bonds and stocks outside of that
Homeless retire senior from California would tell you what happen to them and why. The rent goes up so fast and high don't match social security raise.
You can draw directly from a pension instead of securing a flat income, leaving the fund to keep growing. But your point is valid - paying rent in retirement is a mug's game
You forgot about curveballs. Roger and Owens neighborhood gets gentrified!! Roger can no longer afford $5000 a month in rent once all the Californians moved to his neighborhood, and now Owen owns a $2 million asset
Other way around: Andy Dick moves into the neighbourhood, so house prices plummet! Roger swiftly and easily F's off and Owen is crying into a pillow in his house worth two nickels and a candy bar.
Vinish maintenance is also a huge factor here. Owen's foundation buckles and he needs 100k in repairs. This may be extreme, but stuff breaks all the time and the LL has to fix it. Free for Roger, Owen's kids get peanuts in their stockings.
You forgot the part where the housing market crashes now Owen owes more than the house is worth and in the recession that the crash causes they both loose their jobs, Roger takes his $35K and moves to a city that isn't hit as hard and finds a job with comparable pay to his last job. Owen looses his house leaving him broke, jobless and homeless. this of course isn't just hypothetical it happened to thousands of people in the US in 2008, and renting held a much better outcome for people, because those that got laid off weren't tied down to a local market by a giant immovable investment.
paul everett home owners insurance
acester86 or he could just wait foe another 5-8 years after the recession ended and since so many homes are so cheap thousands of people are buying them up which drives the market through the roof. Unless you’re Detroit and value shit homes in shit neighborhoods way over their true values so when a woman who works part time at Wendy’s buys a $2000 home she is charged $4000 a year in property tax and the home just gets foreclosed again and the market doesn’t have the chance to get revitalized.
A house is a target for financial disaster on all fronts, plus it's a huge loss of privacy. I like renting because neither me nor my money is tied down. If you can afford a home you can always afford to rent a small place.
You forgot to add in, Property tax, escrow Fees, and home insurance cost, compared to that of the renter.
Renter does not have monthly escrow fees, property tax, or insurance on the value of the home. Considerable difference.
If you buy a home, don't unless you can put half down. That way if things go awry with your income, you can rent it out. pay off the loan with rent money and you don't lose house this way.
two happiest days in this former home owners life: the day I bought and the day I sold. good riddance. an advantage of renting now is you have choice in the market we didn't have 20 years ago.
Right on and you will never find yourself 120K upside down on you home in the next market crash. I'm near Denver and the way people are over paying for homes is insane .
Another thing to consider is if you're renting and the employment market where you live goes to crap, you can move and the worst thing you might have to deal with is a broken lease which (in the US at least) you can usually expunge by paying a couple month's rent.
However, if you have a mortgage and the job market where you live goes to crap and you need to move, you might find it difficult to sell as others in the area are moving away as well,. This is what screwed a lot of people in the crash of 2008.
Depends on the city. In NYC less you have rent control you are at the whim of a landlord. A landlord can spike your rent however much they want at an end of the lease.
Then you have to pay a broken, moving costs and all sorts of crap.
And the interest comes off your taxes
How many people have rented a house that the rent stays the same for 25 years?
Almoe Mason that’s what the adjusted for inflation net worth accounts for.
Almoe Mason NYC I have Friends in rent controlled buildings that’s dirt cheap and they’ve been there forever.
@@mulliganstew72 Point taken. Why do NYC property owners let the city tell them how much they can charge for rent.? Just sheep.
Exactly. Rent goes up much faster than inflation. Just look at the Bay Area.
And even more relevant, how the hell is a 2k a month apartment even slightly comparable to a 500k house? For 2k a month rental, we're talking like a $250k property, not a 500k one lol.
Here's what my dad did when I was little.
He was renting a 2 bedroom apartment for $1,200/month.
He saves at least $1,500/month.
One day, he had an idea of importing coffee beans, he need $80k to start with, he borrowed it from the bank. Business went for 5 year, he later bought a 500k house cash.
I'm now 29 and still renting, I'm following his footsteps but on my own pace.
He would always say "people buy house because they don't have options, mortgage can be a handcuff for some people but they don't realise it"
@Husni Tarmizi I am also trying to follow a similar model that your father has with import/export. I don't believe committing to a house/mortgage is the right way to generate true wealth. Taking calculated risks and learning through success/failure is the way forward. I hope you succeed in the world of business.
Wait i am a bit lost - how does that work?
Yeah good advice, the Borrower is Slave to the Lender
@@similargoals5084 instead of paying loan mortgage, he was paying business loan, he used some savings he had + borrowed $80k from the bank to start the business.
@robert power Today I'm renting a 4 bedroom house paying $880 per fortnight. I live in west Sydney.
He was saving money from his wages.
See, that exactly what most people would do, get mortgage, use mortgage as a security for the business, business goes bad and boom, they lost their house.
It is very difficult to start a business when you have mortgage. Some people think a thousand time to change work because they're scared whether the new job would be ideal, you think people would start a business when they mortgage ?
Btw, savings are your assets.
If you can't save you can't buy house.
If you can save you can start a business on your capacity.
Great video. I feel smart and dumb at the same time.
Interesting video. One thing that does not quite tally with what I have seen (in London anyways) is that mortgage costs are normally equal to or sometimes less than market rental value costs, especially with interest rates at an all time low.
say your approved for a 500k house..buy a 250-300k house.. put 20% down and pay it off fast. people usually buy at there max price and that is the mistake...you can take what you would have spent and invest elsewhere in stocks etc.. buying is the way to go..especially investment properties.
I would suggest moving away from a place like that.
350K where I live will buy a gigantic house.
+Smokin' Joe Yeah I had a friend from California come to my property in Alabama and she couldn't believe the size of the house and property. She thought the house was worth like 3.5 - 4 million and I told her my grandpa built it for 750,000$. She told me a house like that would cost millions in LA, she had never been on a big property in the woods before.
Plot twist: even after you've stopped borrowing money, you're still just borrowing the land from the governments. Try not paying property tax in America and see how long your asset remains your asset. There are a whole lot of what-ifs that will negatively or positively impact the sale price of a house after 25 years. This is a rather fruitless effort. Just do what seems best for your lifestyle.
Yeah, I thought when he mentioned the tax on investments that the rich people have offshore holdings like in Panama and dont pay that... thats how some of them got rich in the first place. And considering the volatile situations in many places like Europe, South America, etc.(and even the US of A are not that stable anymore, and Canada is turning more socialist, too, under Trudeau) having a nest egg outside the grasp of voracious socialist governments is a good thing indeed.
Honest question: isn’t the taxes paid (at least in theory) in return for government services? It can be nice to have working roads, functioning emergency services, and a national defense. Isn’t that the exchange, or am I missing the point?
Chris H if it was you could say you dont get the service so you dont pay the tax for it but you cant. So no you are not paying for services
Landlords will often factor property tax into the rental cost. So a renter may wind up paying at least some of the property tax.
The model also assumes that both men never marry or have kids.
Carl and yet there is no property tax on Stocks & Bonds.
So you’re telling me Roger’s rent won’t increase in the 25 years he lived there? Most homeowners also refinance their home around the 10-15 year mark, mainly to get rid of the PMI, but also to either to pull out cash or lock in a lower interest rate. That savings (especially PMI) is income that isn’t factored into this equation.
You did not pay attention, they assume the rent was growing at the inflation rate.
I've lived in the same place for 9 years not one rent increase my landlord is happy with me being here and keeping it clean
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The refinancing also caused the last crash 😂 not always as good as it sounds
Home owning is expensive once you calculate increasing property taxes every 2 years and unforeseen repairs on top of the mortgage. I saved more while renting 😩😩😩
I will just live in the wilderness for free.
same
Information Guy you can build a tiny house for under $1000, research that.
Lord D Use the forests wood 👍
Lord: And spend another 1,000 dollars on an outhouse!
Same
Maybe i didn't hear it but they left out something critical. AFter that 25 years of being lived in, the house will need SERIOUS upgrades and renovations to be able to sell it otherwise it's your classic "fixer upper"
And the neighborhood will probably deteriorate along with your house and become less desirable.
Where do you guys live? In St. Louis, the most desired places to live are those charming old neighborhoods and communities. The prices have sky rocketed in those areas as people are coming back to the city. I guarantee you that if you are buying a 500K house, that the neighborhood will not deteriorate.
depends. some people will be talking about the neighborhoods you're talking about. in the city and you actually get a front and back yard and a bit of space between houses. They're old on the outside only, and crazy nice extravagant on the inside which gnenerally puts it in the $750K range, but realistically, you'll be looking over $1Million to get a house that isn't a fixer upper in a normal toronto neighborhood that isn't run down or heading that way. That's why there is no such thing as a house for $500K in toronto anymore. (the location of this video's example)
littlegoobie yes you definitely need to have money to upkeep the home as well.
They budgeted roughly 500/month on upkeep and whatnot. I'm sure a thrifty homeowner could save some money and use that for painting, new roof, carpeting, etc.
The last part hit the nail on the head. If you SAVE , we live in a consumer world sometimes it very difficult to save therefore renting and ending with more is archivable but difficult.
I think the video misses on key point. The owner has an asset at the end of the mortgage and the renter does not. That asset can be rented out, used as collateral, or sold.
Even the fact that at the end of the mortgage, the payments cease. Rent never ceases
I'm just going to move into a trailer. Fuck all this.
You would be renting water and electricity and land from the trailer overlords. They can up the charges as they please. And the lower income areas are plagued with thieves, yelling neighbors, and trash.
@WRO: Um, you do realize that you would be paying someone else for water and electricity when you own a house as well, right?
kleplocage 😂😂😂
WRO The question is, will you buy or rent the trailer?
Buying a house and your buying land wrapped up together. Buy a trailor and buy land for trailor. It basically is the same process. Its wrapped up the same but business's that sell trailors will work with bad or low credit and when you look for your land, you can look into getting more acreage. After time when your trailor is paid off , you can section off a part of your property and start to purchase a cheap trailor and rent that double what you pay. So your getting what your paying back. At least that what I'll start working on this coming year. Then when I die, my kids can live in the homes or rent them and have residual monthly income.
Owen bought his house at the top of the market, then the bubble burst. and now his $500K house is only worth $350K and no one wants to buy it. Owen loses his job and now has to sell his house at a loss to move to another city to work. The factory in Owen's city closes and now everyone is selling their homes since they cannot pay the mortgages.
lol he said in Toronto. Housing prices here doubled in the past decade...
It's irrelevant. He isnt looking to sell his house. This is about long term, not what happens when the markets fluctuate (which is all the time). You are talking like someone who doesnt even understand basic economics. And way to use an extreme example of Owen losing his job, as if the renter cant lose his job either and then live in a car for his entire life. It's supposed to be an apples and apples comparison, both people having the same life experiences, all things being equal. If Owen loses his job, so does the other guy. smh
Kyle Limeback It did well in the US too. Until 2007. Things aren’t peaches and roses forever believe that.
I guess no one remembers the 2008 housing/financial crisis. People bought overpriced homes, lost their jobs, went bankrupt and had their homes re-possessed. It can and most likely will happen again (because we don't learn from the past). Check out the movie "The Big Short" to get a humorous and eye opening overview of what happened in '08.
@@johnnyhuffington if they both lost their jobs one can easily move and the other can't.
You have impeccable penmanship sir.
It is impressive.
Pretty good comparison with reasonable assumptions, I think. One big advantage of renting in my experience is the ability to pick up and move within a fairly short notice, without serious financial penalties; your stock portfolio travels with you. If you are a homeowner who has sunk most of your income into your house, you are far more "tied to the earth," as it were, and cannot move freely when opportunity presents itself. I think it better to either buy a much cheaper home than you need, so that you can afford to keep it and rent it out should you desire to move later, or wait to buy a larger house when you are fairly settled and intend to stay in that same spot for 20 years or so. Also, I can't recommend living in an expensive city like Toronto if you can help it, but that's just me.
As always, reality is much different than artificial numbers on a piece of paper. I bought my condo 2 years ago in the Vancouver area for $245,000 and 2 years later it was worth $385,000 based on a bank appraisal. I refinanced the condo to take out equity to buy a rental condo. The income on the rental condo fully covers my monthly costs for the rental condo. Now I have 2 properties which are increasing in value. The plan is to sell both condos when I retire and downsize or move to a smaller community with lower housing costs. THAT is much better than renting!
I'm happy to learn that your business is doing good. Keep in mind stuff can happens still. Market could go down, tenant could set your place on fire, or, as I said in my main post, you could end up with a drug dealer as renter, and you can't kick him out :D
That happened near my partner's house. Several of the houses on her street are rented out, and one family that moved in were criminals through and through. Police were constantly outside the house, and when they eventually did leave - they tore up the place as they (allegedly) removed drug stashes they had around the house.
During their stay, the landlord had a hell of a time getting them to move, and he finally decided to pack in being a landlord and sell up his properties.
After watching this video, I can say I'm so happy being homeless!
Ohh, God, where do you live?
In a way you're better off there's lots of stress owning a home
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I was homeless too for a while. I generated so much income and having no expenses. It was dope! Only problem with it was survivin' the freezing cold winter and gettin' harassed by cops for no real reason. I always had a good attitude so they always let me go and I never got arrested.
You get what you ask
For me the answer is easy. I'm 66 years old and I have never paid rent. So I guess you now know what side of the argument I fall on. Well, that's not 100 percent true, I do pay 20 bucks a month on a spot for my RV at the secure lot. So there is that.
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Rent is paying someone else's mortgage
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