Test Your Amateur Radios: TinySA Ultra Spectrum Analyzer
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2023
- Want to not only test for spurious emissions, but recevier sensativity? The TinySA Ultra might be the way to go!
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#HRCC #hamradio #amateurradio - Věda a technologie
You can adjust for the attention of the tap so you can see the true values, under LEVEL select EXT GAIN 👍
Awesome.
I agree with Josh that receiver sensitivity testing is an important test to perform. Something that wasn't mentioned that is a really important factor in this test is the squelch level of the radio. The radio should be tested with the squelch open to be able to be able to give a good apples to apples comparison. Or at least set to the lowest level without being open. A radio with the squelch all the way up compared to a radio with the squelch close to open will test way worse than the radio with the squelch near open
These technical, tool, and testing videos are excellent! Really helps me understand RF better.
Just wanted to thank you for your content and your HRCC exam prep series. Passed both technician amd general first time, same day, perfect scores!! Couldnt have done it without you!
Thank you for showing this kind of testing. I follow and learn so much from you and the rest of the ham folks. I always learn something new and different from you, tho, bud. 🤙🏽
Josh, thank you. A timely and helpful video.
Thank you very much for this very insightful tutorial Josh.
Thanks OM for the review. Just got one and will use it for many things including where to aim my TV antenna for the best signal. Great age we are living in, yes indeed.
Josh, your audio and video quality is exceptional. Thanks for taking the time to produce such informative videos.
Thanks for watching!!!
Thanks for this video, it helped me understand the chapter on spurious emmissions covered on the amateur extra exam
I enjoyed this video immensely. I plan to pick up one of these devices. I recently obtained my Extra license (got all three in three months before even touching a radio), but was mostly focused on passing the exams, not as much on actually learning the material. I find myself drawn to tools like this, that will let me measure, monitor, and observe various properties, behaviors, and conditions. Thank you for explaining the why, what, and how so clearly.
Thanks, Just picked one of these up. Very handy.
R&L Electronics is my go to for TinySA and NanoVNA stuff... NanoVNA SAA2N is a nice piece of test equipment with up to 3ghz measurement, N connectors...
Oh nice. I just happened to be looking at these on Amazon last night. 👍
I'll be happy to use your link if I pull the trigger. Thanks for the great video!
Cool stuff Josh!!!!
Man this was a very cool and informative video. Thank you.
Actually a cool device. Thank you. The video was quite educational as always
Thanks for the video and for the links.
Just a demo. Turn off squelch for receiver testing. 👍
TinySA Ultra: amzn.to/3sKyVYB
10 watt 40dB attenuator: amzn.to/3sPEmpo
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.
Variable RF Sampler: CleanRF.com
I originally ordered the ultra to hunt down spurious emissions. I have solar going up on Wednesday, and a guy in my club hooked it up with all the ferrites. His name is Hank, and he's our official (self-proclaimed) ferrite dealer. 😆
This is the type of content I enjoy...
Well more of this type is coming.
To convert the signal in dBm to uV for sensitivity, you can use this formula: 10^6*sqrt(50*10^(dBm/10-3)). For example, -126 dBm yields 0.11 uV
If you set the external gain as -40 dB, it will adjust the displayed value for you, no extra math required. Thank you for a nice comprehensive video!
it seems he doesnt really understand how to use a spectrum analyzer. there's a lot of good educational videos on youtube about how to use them, all he has do to is watch a couple.
Great video
I was hoping for a video like this, I just got a tinysa
I'd suggest checking the RF sampler for flatness with your NanoVNA. It could be a capacitive coupler which gives tighter coupling with higher frequencies. This might explain (some) of the horrible harmonic responses of your cheapie radio. Thanks for the TinySA update! 73s --N2GX
Your Sampler is specified from 3 to 30MHz, and is quoted at -60db at 15Mhz. They do not show how flat it is over the specified range. At vhf its performance needs plotting.
Time to spend even more money! Thanks for the great video Josh!
Appreciate you demonstrating yet another reason to order something from Amazon. Yep you have done it so many Amateur Radio experiments that I just want to do . However years ago my employer had me working with more expensive and larger S.A.s but then I was paid to learn electronic Warfare equipment and be projects to Soooo interesting. Was before I was a Ham. Many of my colleagues were Hams
de AA4SH Steve
thank you
Looks to be a GREAT piece for testing.... so... Just now purchased one from R&L electronics for 139.95 + a few bucks for Priority USPS shipping. R&L has always treated me very well. Their price beat Amazon by $50 bucks.
Thanks!
Thank you!!
Hey Josh, another fun test on those receivers is to introduce an off frequency signal while measuring sensitivity. That would require an additional signal generator, but really shows what the receiver can do selectivity wise. That VX6r will probably out preform Chinese direct conversion radios by 40 db.
How far off frequency?
I got a tinysa ultra that had a bad screen. By the time Amazon refunded me, the price went back up by like 50 bucks. I got a hackrf portapack h2, and I've been pretty stoked. I still need a spectrum analyzer, but I give the portapack credit.
Great video. One thing I was hoping to see was a spurious emissions test of a good radio like a Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood as comparison to the ones you showed. Thanks for your videos.
You’ll only see a fundamental frequency and all others harmonics will be greatly suppressed.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse Thanks! I should have known that you had already tested that. :-)
@@HamRadioCrashCourse Thanks!. I should have known that you had already tested that. :-)
You must have sent quite a few folks to the purchase site. Sold out 18 hours after the video dropped 🙂
Ha! Talking about signal loss through the female-female SMA adapter, but using RG316 for VHF/UHF 😄
R&L Electronics sells a tiny SA ultra very similar 73
Much easier when you are only testing one signal. Multiplex a bunch of signals and you get even more fun.
I messuard this a month ago. TalkPod sends me a new Version of the TalkPod A36PLUS with better Filter. -52dB to -55dB on 2m Band
Yeah, I thought about the name too.. kind of like, Jumbo shrimp, new and improved! Or even military intelligence!
Am I correct that is you set the external gain to the negative value of your in-line attenuator, then the display will read accurately (with the attenuator accounted for)?
Hi Josh. When testing sensitivity, I had an idea that both radios had squelch on, otherwise it would be static all the way down, regardless of the signal strength.
You are right. This is just a demonstration. I'm not keeping score on this one :D
Is there a calculator where we can know what dB attenuation is needed based on the output power of the transmitter?
I've been looking at this Analyzer for some antenna building What do you think about it's use in Tracking down a neighborhood electromagnetic interference ....Noise ? I loaned out my am radio. Thanks for the demonstration, very helpful.
To be safe with your power levels (and not blow up your SA) you could use the RF Power Snitch
please elaborate, what is a rf power switch, what is it for?
Josh, when you were testing the low-signal receivability of the 2 HTs it seems like there was squelch on both radios (no squelchless noise coming from the HTs when no signal was available). Shouldn't squelch be off when doing that test? :)
It’s just a demo we weren’t working for score. 🤷🏼♀️
Can it generate a DPL or PL tone along with an intended frequency or just a single frequency?
Weren't you just testing the squelch level there? You should probably disable the squelch on both and listen for the tone.
Sure. Just a demo. We weren’t doing anything for score. 👍
link to your video on setting up the tinySA?
Can one use an isoT- if we do not have a similar attenuator! I do have some bird slugs to measure very low power output from the sampling port.
The quoted text says 40db down for 30mhz or less. What are the numbers for 2m and 70cm?
40db
Hey Josh, is it easy to export a CSV Scan file using the TinySA to be used in frequency coordination software?
So, after taking measurements, is there follow-up that can be done, i e , corrective action? I imagine most of these handheld radios are digitally synthesized with fixed circuits (?). I find RF interesting but only worked in digital design and factory automation and I don't have any radios or friends with them. So, I'm just checking out what people are up to. I ran across SDR -- another thing I never heard of.
So, after measuring, what then?
Can I hook my ham directly into the tinysa or will it destroy it.
Would the graph be useful in fox hunting?
As an amateur, amateur radio person. I was always confused by the FCC and other people testing a radio by directly sampling the output. The transmission is dependent on the antenna of the radio, and the distance, not just the amplifier stage. How much power is transmitted on those spurious harmonics will be attenuated by the antenna.
The power attenuators you are using are designed for what frequency? "DC-3GHz" So they will drop the power exactly 30gb at 100Mhz and 2Ghz? Would be interesting to test those independently of the radio, since all of the other readings are being controlled by them.
Sure a Baofeng might throw some spurious emissions out on other frequencies, but at 10+M away using a proper antenna, how much spurious noise is detectable? Even in your video moving the radio a few inches closer and further changed the readings.
They direct sample the output because they don't want their to be spurious emissions, or at least greatly supressed emissions. So you test it coming off the radio for accuracy.
> I was always confused by the FCC and other people testing a radio by directly sampling the output.
because the FCC regulations explicitly state that the measurements are to be done exactly there.
> Sure a Baofeng might throw some spurious emissions out on other frequencies, but at 10+M away using a proper antenna, how much spurious noise is detectable?
someone did a test of this and posted on youtube, 70cm splatter from 2m transmission was clearly received from a LONG distance, like suprisingly far.
Can I use this to check for power line noise?
Yes with the right antenna and attenuator.
Watt is the watts of the silly squirt!
4:30 one device impersonating a barbershop quartet with an extra singer.
Do not rush to buy the ultra SA max. These videos are educational only; and driving viewers to buy tech equipment is valueless if only to emulate the same testbench outcomes. Rather trust the video to avoid bad HTs and go for quality HTs with your saved money.
Once upon a time hams actually bought and used test equipment and were expected to verify their equipment met FCC rules. I like that tradition and will continue it and provide info for how-to to viewers. You don't have to though, you do you, but maybe keep in mind, your opinion is pretty irresponsible.
I'm now forced to say it...I'm shocked at some of the junk being built and sold in recent years, these companies have no shame, and of course they don't, being Chinese. They don't have respected brand names to defend like Icom, Kenwood or Yaesu, etc... There was a day when junk like that radio under test would never have made it onto the market. As a radio & TV broadcast transmitter engineer, all I can say is that I'm appalled, seems anything goes nowadays. BTW, I really like those little SA's, going to have to get one of those now that I'm retiring and won't have use of the Rohde & Schwarz FSL18 anymore :-(
pick up a used R&S off ebay. i picked up a R&S that originally cost $200,000. i paid $800 for it. test equipment doesn't retain value at all, and depreciates worse than a the crappiest automobile.
lol ANY harmonic of a Vhf transmitter with a power up to 25w can NOT be stronger than 23uw i.e about -16dbm. No matter how far the harmonics are down.
people keep pointing that out, strange he keeps missing it. a lot of radios he claimed "passed" actually fail 25 µW limit. he's only comparing to dBc which is not enough.
I keep hearing about how dirty frequencies transmitted from Chinese radio are. If so, how come the FCC continues to give them "Type Acceptance?" Have you done this type of testing with the "Big 3" (ICOM, KENWOOD, and YEASU)?
I think he was testing old radio that isn't for sale anymore.
the ones that come to US are fcc compliant .
I tried to send you an email. I found a Baofang in a movie! Then, not long after, I found another one! (They were horrible movies. I couldn't even finish one of 'em.)
So that Amazon LINK for TinySA ULTRA is a genuine TINYsa ULTRa?
Cheers
Yes, it was pulled from the TinySA site on approved places to purchase. I would recommend if you can though to save some money and buy through the R&L link.
@HamRadioCrashCourse cheers, I have the TinySA an ULTRA would be nice to be able to generate a 2 tone test.
Peace.
I love my TalkPod handheld, works 100%..... It is a keeper for me, as a backup radio... yaesu over rated, over kill.
Gross.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse Ditto
Isnt there a good use case for a "dirty radio" in a real SHTF event?
No. The opposite. You’re transmitting on frequencies outside what is displayed on the radio. Easier to find you.
No. The opposite. You’re transmitting on frequencies outside what is displayed on the radio. Easier to find you.
Do you know of anything around the same size that goes to Eight gigahertz
No
@HamRadioCrashCourse damn! Stuck with old big used spectrum analyzer.
Tiny Esse.
Like “where you from esse?”
Why do you quote the FCC regulations for sub 30Mhz when giving an example with a 2M radio?
(e) The mean power of any spurious emission from a station transmitter or external RF power amplifier transmitting on a frequency between 30-225 MHz must be at least 60 dB below the mean power of the fundamental. For a transmitter having a mean power of 25 W or less, the mean power of any spurious emission supplied to the antenna transmission line must not exceed 25 µW and must be at least 40 dB below the mean power of the fundamental emission, but need not be reduced below the power of 10 µW.
What was my operating frequency?
@@HamRadioCrashCourse @6:07 your "spur facts" text shows you quoting section (d) when you are testing frequencies under section (e). not only that, your other videos testing under (e) only talk about the dBc from fundamental, you forgot that 25 µW is also a requirement and many radios you said passed, actually fail the 25 µW limit (-16dBm).
My Explorer QRZ-1 fails this test and I got it for free when I got my license *shrug*
Whose a dirty little radio
If it only had a tracking generator I could have saved lots of dough
That's Why I don't by Chinese Made Ham Radios! Only Japanese Brands Radios because of Their High Quality Standards!
Cheap Chinese VHF radios today are full of dirty spurious emissions and sold freely over the internet with zero FCC enforcement or government import regulations. My department had to move to another frequency due to spurious emissions tripping the local repeater constantly. We received little help from the government other than a boilerplate response letter they are 'looking into the problem'
It's a scourge currently. There is a profusion of these crappy non-compliant radios flooding the market. People should expect that they are getting what they pay for.
First! Haha
Thanks!
Thank you!