Why Most Americans Can’t Vote Online
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- čas přidán 22. 09. 2020
- Online voting sounds like a safe and easy solution for the 2020 presidential election, which will be held in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic. The concept isn’t anything new; a dozen countries including Australia, Canada and France have experimented with the format. Estonia has held elections online since as early as 2005. However, when it comes to voting online in the U.S., cybersecurity still remains a major threat as voting online could allow foreign adversaries such as China or Russia to tamper with the election results. Some American voters, including those serving in the military overseas and those voting in local or state elections have been able to vote online in the past. Watch the video to find out why most Americans can’t vote online.
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Why The U.S. Doesn’t Vote Online
"might not have laptops or iPhone to vote on"
Like those are the only 2 types of devices that can access the internet...
..And since he's already naming brands, he might need to go on for a while to name them all.
lol even the B/O phone folks could vore.
Seriously. It's so stupid when people say iPhone or iPad when referring to phones or tablets.
If they really wanted everyone to vote, they’d make it a national holiday but neither side has said a peep about doing that.
It's been proposed six times by the Democrats to have a national day where everyone does not have to work and instead go vote but Republicans have fading away repeatedly. Statistically they don't benefit from the majority of people in this country voting since they are the minority party
Both parties fear this as it would allow many to vote and change the power structure.
wait a minute, Polling Day isnt a national holiday?? what third world nation is that? i am glad polling day here automatically means 1 full day off..
In thailand 🇹🇭 the votes r always done ✅ on weekends, but there’s no online voting 🗳 which would b really co0l. Since there’s so much vote buying anyway, it’s ok 👌 if they wanna manipulate it. They prob do that anyway.
Do you believe that innovative voting will ever become a part of the American voting system ? There are so many creative outlets that one could put in place and technology perhaps could be implemented in some form or fashion.
Do you ever just wish there could be a cohesive exchange of dialogue on real world problems minus the all of the toxic challenges?🤕😊
Tom Scott literally made 2 videos about how online voting is a terrible method
I came here to say the exact same thing. People who've forgotten more than I could ever know say DON'T DO IT! I defer to them.
No. He never said online. He said electronic. Online is a lot LOT worse
Either way blockchain technology solves a lot of these issues
@@tycooperaow It doesn't. Blockchain has no way to understand if people are actually legitimate voters without giving up anonymity.
This isn't a problem with money because it doesn't require you to know if the account is actually legitimate. Whether you are a scammer or a charity you can have a bitcoin (or other) adress.
Mr_Biscuit it does solve a lot issues that they were concerned about in the video. The only one that needs to be address is the true anonymity factor as you mentioned. You could use some kind of Zero knowledge proof but that’s still in development with projects like monero and ZKP
There’s also another issue you forgot to mention and that’s the scalability one. Trying to load 160-220 million transactions seamlessly all at once could be a difficult task. I hope in the future teams like Ethereum could resolve it
Even if online voting was perfect, which it isn’t, you’d still have one party fighting tooth and nail against it because they only win when communities are disenfranchised.
25% say they didn't like the candidate or they're issues that proves we keep electing the wrong person to president, senator, representatives, mayor and governor.
We need more polling places throughout every state and primaries need tombe holidays so there's a higher chance that people age 18-44 can vote.
Basically, in a nutshell, there are no secrets.
This is not the take-away here at all. In a nutshell, it is hard to do it securely.
czcams.com/video/gpx-tX3-2jc/video.html Leaked 2 minutes explaining President Xi’s secret plans for the US election
I don’t trust computers. And I’m a programmer! LOL
You do not trust computers BECAUSE you a programmer. LOL. People who trust computers do not understand computers. ;)
People think that if an election hasn't been hacked in Estonia yet, that means it is safe. What they do not understand that there is no monetary benefit of hacking Estonian Election. LOL. Every thing is just basic economics. Or Until someone wants to have some fun. ;)
They want your tax, not necessarily your votes.
NO NO NO, don't even REMOTELY think about voting online.
kensaiix I just did vote online . IndianaVoters.gov is it a bad thing.
@@_king_manuel652 i am not familiar with the system in Indiana, but in general, the missing physical trail coupled with the automation potential of computers seems like the most unfavorable foundation one can start from in terms of votes count. i hope there is at least some sort of personally selectable encryption seed.
@@kensaiix Hell we put money in our banks and we trust them to keep our money secure, so why is there A issue with voting online Because we are doing everything else online and we trust that it’s secure like Banking etc .
@@CandanceOnline read above.
and also, banks are a a really bad parallel to draw, as they are a 3rd party (which the online voting system does not have) and are, by definition, not secret, not universal and not free, and thus the opposite of how you want suffrage to be.
There are some political parties in my country who try to push online voting and even did an experiment for an online-only voting in their own party, which had thousands of participants and turned out well. Unfortunately, the party doesnt have that many supporters yet when compared to the tradiional ones, but hopefully the numbers will increase in the future. I think there are a lot of pros and cons in this like getting younger people more involved however I am not sure how anonymous the vote will be in online voting.
In Belarus, even off line voting got corrupted !!!!
And also in Thailand !!! What is democracy ? Could someone please answer me?
One thing not mentioned here is the issue of pressuring or forcing someone to vote a certain way. With a physical voting booth you can only walk in alone, so everyone can vote the way they desire with no one looking over their shoulder. The fundamental issue with all types of remote voting is that you cannot protect the vulnerable from being pressured by e.g. a family member. Honestly, if you guys moved US elections to the weekend instead of a workday and have voting booths at places of work which need to run 24/7 (e.g. a hospital), you could help a lot with voter turnout.
I'm confused. Am an American living in Tokyo, and have voted online since 2006.
???
??
Online voting is not secure. There are blockchains of course, but they are excessively secure.
Blockchains don’t provide the privacy requirements of online national voting
@@somanayr There are many different algorithms, including ones that exactly provide privacy.
ХОРОШО name one algorithm / technique that does that
@@theWebmasterify You can read: hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01874855/document
You can't SUPPRESS VOTING ON LINE, so this is the reason we in USA can't vote on line!!
The problem that some people might not have access to online voting is not actually a problem if you leave the option to vote personally for those who want to.
we pay our bills and bank online but voting can't happen? because its not "secure"
Of course, what's stealing a few trillons vs changing elections, elections are obviously more important by a factor of a few millions probably. Hence the different in effort in cheating the system :P
1) It is not actually "safe" to conduct ecommerce transactions online: Banks, credit card companies, and online merchants ►lose billions of dollars a year◄ in online transaction fraud despite huge investments in fraud prevention and recovery. People have the ►illusion◄ that ecommerce transactions are safe because merchants and banks ►don’t hold consumers financially responsible◄ for fraudulent transactions. If ►consumers◄ had to ►pay the charges for fraudulent transactions◄, most online commerce would collapse.
9.22.20. Lawfare Blog.
"The banking system is verifiable, as individuals can tell if their accounts have been compromised, and it is remediatable, as users can notify their banks when transfers do not add up.
The same is not true for online voting platforms; votes must be kept secret to avoid vote selling, coercion and vote buying. If a vote is altered surreptitiously, the voter cannot easily check or remediate the problem, and, even if an issue is detected, the voting company is not held liable and the greatest damages it will receive are to its reputation. Due to these seemingly conflicting requirements of ballot secrecy and verifiability, it is remarkably difficult to construct an online voting system that maintains the same two security properties."
www.lawfareblog.com/online-voting-wasnt-ready-2020-dont-count-it-anytime-soon
I've had my bank account hacked 2 times in the past 2 years.
@@terrillbennett1150 quite true but as they are mostly trying to achieve convenience through easy access, they lose tons of security. A good way would for instance to use 2 factors auth using like an external device or authentificator using the phone :)
@@EspremeaAndCO Here are ►Thirty-Six◄ renowned computer, security and encryption experts including ►Internet cryptography◄ notables Matt Blaze [Remotely-Keyed Encryption], Bruce Schneier ["Skein" cryptographic hash functions] and Ronald Rivest [Co-inventor, RSA public key encryption algorithm] who disagree with you…
✦ March 20, 2020. Verified Voting Puerto Rico Veto Letter P.S 1314
⊠ Anyone in the world, including ►foreign nation states◄, criminal organizations, or our domestic partisans, can attack any Internet voting system, attempt to change votes, violate privacy, or disrupt the election - possibly in a ►completely undetectable way◄.
⊠ Voter authentication attacks (i.e. forged voter credentials)
⊠ Malware on voters' devices (e.g., viruses, Trojan horses, malicious code embedded in software updates) that can modify votes undetectably
⊠ Denial of service attacks (slowing some key part of the system to a crawl, or crashing it, either by overwhelming it with traffic or taking advantage of a bug)
⊠ Server penetration attacks (remote break-in and control of the election server)
⊠ Spoofing attacks (directing voters to a fake voting site instead of the real one)
⊠ Widespread privacy violation (by any of several methods, taking advantage of the fact that online voters must transmit their names with their votes)
⊠ Automated vote buying and selling schemes (with cryptocurrency payments, e.g. Bitcoin, in exchange for votes)
Signed by 36 renowned computer, security and encryption experts including Internet cryptography notables Matt Blaze [Remotely-Keyed Encryption], Bruce Schneier ["Skein" cryptographic hash functions] and Ronald Rivest [Co-inventor, RSA public key encryption algorithm].
www.verifiedvoting.org/verified-voting-puerto-rico-veto-letter-p-s-1314/
✦ 5.21.20. Bennan Center for Justice.
'Why Online Voting Isn’t the Answer to Running Elections During COVID-19'
⊠ Companies touting Internet voting as secure and reliable ►can’t back up their claims◄."
www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/why-online-voting-isnt-answer-running-elections-during-covid-19
✦ 4.9.20. American Association For The Advancement Of Science.
'Letter to Governors and Secretaries of State on the insecurity of online voting'
⊠ Internet voting, which includes email, fax, and web-based voting as well as voting via mobile apps such as Voatz, remains ►fundamentally insecure◄.
⊠ Scientists and security experts express concern regarding a number of potential vulnerabilities facing any Internet voting platform, including ►malware and denial of service attacks◄; voter authentication; ballot protection and anonymization; and how disputed ballots are handled.
⊠ ►No way to conduct a valid audit of the results◄ due to the lack of a meaningful voter-verified paper record.
www.aaas.org/programs/epi-center/internet-voting-letter
✦ 2018. The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine.
'Securing the Vote: Protecting American Democracy (2018)'
Page 9. Internet Voting - Recommendations
"At the present time, ►the Internet (or any network connected to the Internet) should not be used for the return of marked ballots◄. Further, Internet voting should not be used in the future until and unless very robust guarantees of security and verifiability are developed and in place, as ►no known technology guarantees the secrecy, security, and verifiability of a marked ballot transmitted over the Internet◄."
www.nap.edu/read/25120/chapter/2
✦ August 18, 2016. EPIC/Verified Voting Foundation
⊠ 44 states have Constitutional provisions guaranteeing secrecy in voting.
⊠ 32 states and the District of Columbia allow some form of Internet voting (email/FAX/Internet portal).
⊠ It is impossible to maintain separation of voters’ identities from their votes when Internet voting is used.
⊠ ►28 states require the voter to sign a waiver of his or her Right to a secret ballot◄.
⊠ The remainder ►fail to acknowledge the "secret ballot" issue◄.
secretballotatrisk.org/Secret-Ballot-At-Risk.pdf
✦ August 2020. Stanford-MIT Healthy Elections Project.
[Page 10:]
⊠ Likewise, compromise at the server level could allow changing the results of an election at scale. No amount of testing can eliminate all flaws from a system. As seen with the Voatz system,despite promises that votes were immutably stored via a blockchain, server compromise before the blockchain would allow an attacker to modify or reveal any voter’s ballot. Blockchain cannot address the fundamental difficulties associated with Internet voting and may even introduce additional areas for attackers to target.
[Page 14:]
⊠ Of course, no amount of testing can address the fundamental insecurities of online voting described above, though having untested technology deployed in live elections only risks worse outcomes.
healthyelections.org/sites/default/files/2020-08/Online%20Voting%20Memo%20Draft.pdf
It would be way too easy and secure if they would just use uncensorable Blockchain technology, which would not be beneficial to those in power.
Finally a use case for clumsy old power hungry block chain, rather than using money to determine Joe or Donald.
"Blockchain is the wrong security technology for voting, I like to think of it as bringing a combination lock to a kitchen fire."
- Ron Rivest (the "R" in "RSA")
9.21.20. Edscoop.
"[Blockchain] does nothing to ensure that the votes that are committed to the blockchain are indeed the votes that the voter intended. All it does is ensure that whatever gets put in the blockchain can’t be altered without being detected."
- Philip Stark, Associate Dean of mathematical and physical sciences, University of California, Berkeley
edscoop.com/online-voting-not-ready-yet-election-security-research/
2.6.19. Wired/Bruce Schneier.
"Much has been written about blockchains and how they displace, reshape, or eliminate trust. But when you analyze both blockchain and trust, you quickly realize that there is much more hype than value. ►Blockchain solutions are often much worse than what they replace◄."
www.wired.com/story/theres-no-good-reason-to-trust-blockchain-technology/
Suggested Google Search: "blockchain hack"
1.5.20. Coin Telegraph.
⊠ in 2019, there were ►12 cryptocurrency hacks◄:
⊡⊡ Worth: $292 million
⊡⊡ Data: over ►500,000 pieces of customer data stolen◄
⊠ Reality: more hacks on cryptocurrency exchange are taking place year after year
cointelegraph.com/news/most-significant-hacks-of-2019-new-record-of-twelve-in-one-year
I think there really needs to be an open source project to develop the most secure internationally accepted voting system possible
Blockchain is not secure. Blockchain is eventually consistent, so you cannot prove that it stored every vote, unless everyone voted.
09:20
"Digital Signing a ballot"
*shows an actual guy signing on a digital screen*
The us is intent on keeping a 100 year old voting system because it can be easily manipulated and you can stop certain groups from voting by closing polling locations
teebone 21 ??? When is it easily manipulated. And they don’t stop certain groups from voting from closing polling locations, they probably just move them sometimes. Stop talking out of your ass
Regardless of anything, in the end, anything can be manipulated on a computer through the Internet.
No, in person Voting only.
There hasn’t been in person voting ONLY for many many years. Mail in voting has been around for a long time now.
@@SWLinPHX if you can't show up to monitored polling place you shouldn't vote. Unless you're in the Military. By law you can not be fired for leaving work to do so. Sorry to much fraud until the government comes up with a national secure mail in voted standard. Just like the stimulus 1.5 billion dollars got sent to people who don't even Exist and the people that need it still aren't getting the help they need. Most states have not set up a mail in voting system. Is not something you can just throw together in a couple of weeks and people have to Learn how to fill out ballot. 500,000 votes got thrown away in primarie because they were filled out wrong. But yes mail in voting can work just not over night they should have set this up years ago.
a) Voting data / voter records are available to purchase. Campaigns purchase and use this data.
b) Block-Chain technology will prevent data manipulation / alteration.
c) People can vote at polling locations to same centralized system, so not everyone has to have secure compatible device / connection to participate
Make Election Day a Holiday. Add a tax fee/penalty to anyone who doesn't vote in federal election. Problem solved.
Sure, because that has worked out beautifully in Brazil..
As a security expert I would say no-way.
What argument(s) would you have using BlockChain for voting?
@@lorezyra "There are many reasons blockchain is not good for voting, Epstein said. For one, it assumes there's no malware in the voter's computer. It also assumes you want all the votes to be perennially public, because if someone finds a way to hack into the blockchain, everyone's vote becomes public. And, while blockchain networks may be able to handle small absentee voter populations, the technology could not stand up to use by the general voter populace and its volumes."
@@rathernot6587
Respectfully, I disagree. No one deserves freedom when they refuse to defend their votes/choices.
You are, however, correct, that the blockchain must be public and there must be a sufficient number of nodes to confirm the submitted votes. It could even employ HashGraph (which is slightly different from blockchain). The user's computer isn't required when you could still present yourself physically to state approved hardware at given locations. Otherwise, the State could provide a simple app that users could download to their smart-phones. Something that could confirm identity with a combination of finger and face ID.
I'm confused. Am an American living in Tokyo, and literally uploaded by ballot to vote online for Arizona a few minutes ago. I've been voting online since around 2006.
USA can provide voting devices(smartphones solely used for voting i.e.) to all americans. Thay way they can update the software simultaneously to make sure it's always secure.
Why not vote through ATM machines, banking networks are relatively secure and you also get receipt. Just put in your social security number and you will be presented with a candidate list from your electorate. It will be much cheaper because all the system is out there, also everybody know how to use a ATM machine. Plus ATM are made to be accessible by blinds and they also have cameras.
Voting on-line with triple redundant security codes, and our favorite (I am not a robot) pictorial question, is the future. As to those without the resources, they should have mail-in ballots or a central place to vote. I say central place, as opposed to costly polling places in every neighborhood, because so few will avail themselves of in-person voting.
Totally. We could vote online. The IRS and SSI do this. Why not connect it to the IP address and like SSI, or credit unions. provide a code and scramble the vote sending. And then hire tons of cyber security professionals. Two device confirmation would help to make it more secure as well. It could be a tool in our toolbox. Still mail-in ballots and in person voting. The important thing is to get more people to vote.
I might be open to the idea in the future but I think for the time being it'd be better to just go with the mail in format.
I think Tech Giants should be taking more initiative in this matter. What if we voted on offline on our phones and use NFC to tap a voting Kiosk located in the city to send in our vote to the secure systems? that would be a great way to do it.
But we can do our taxes, sign contracts, use bank accounts. But can't vote
All things that aren't anonymous
I did census online, I don't see why not vote online. just like the census you register to vote, and before election government send you a letter with unique code, then you logon web to vote.
Iowa primary did we forget about that
I'm all for progressing in innovation and technology, but when it comes to elections, i would still prefer physical Ballots in transparent box.
It would be better if they take the ballot box on a pick up truck and drive it around toward the voters.
Or have a pop up Truck in every state and have it were people can vote & get a Ballot Application to Vote .
@@CandanceOnline The Ballot Box has to remain visible to the public at all times. The Pop Up Truck might be good for where you register your self.
It's insecured.
2 second answer, turned into a 13 minute video.
Lol didn't even mention block chain 🤣
They will never let you vote online. It would mean we wouldn't need politicians if it was that simple we could just have referendums on the bills and real democracy. Why would you need a congressman or local representative to cast votes on your behalf if you can do it yourself from anywhere?
I have been around since before the internet. My late husband worked for Xerox when that company created a system (Telecopier machine) along with DARPA to allow quick defense communication. In my mind, the internet was an open forum reaching all of us (some of us are more adept at receiving). Hence no online security. I can't trust the internet as being a private system. USA local controlling agents for voting decide what is counted. Other dictatorship countries show these weaknesses. Unfortunately, the "Party" runs the show. I will vote by mail in Washington State. We have this system for years and it seems to suit the voters of Washington. The only time it didn't work was when party affiliation had to be declared during the primary. Since I was an independent voter, I didn't vote because I had no choice; it had made in the primary. I actually talked to the then Secretary of WA state who told me that there was a 20% decline in voters for that election. I still don't like the party system but reluctantly declared Democrat to vote against our tyrant in chief, Trumpleskin.
A Block chain voting system, or a public voting system only accessible via the state and voter with secondary verification seems the go.
For your evening reading...
2.28.20. Coin Telegraph.
⊠ Computer scientist Ronald Rivest has said that blockchain is not the right technology for voting, although it can find proper application in a number of other areas.
⊠ "Blockchain is the wrong security technology for voting. I like to think of it as bringing a combination lock to a kitchen fire or something like that. It's good on its own for certain things but it's not good for voting."
⊠ "Blockchain technology really doesn't fit for a couple of reasons. One is that we have learned we need software independence."
⊠ Elaborating further on the matter, Rivest compared blockchain with garbage stored in forever. "►Once they've had the chance to manipulate your vote◄, it goes on the blockchain and never gets changed again."
cointelegraph.com/news/mit-professor-blockchain-is-good-on-its-own-but-not-good-for-voting
February 20, 2020. MIT.
'Going from Bad to Worse: From Internet Voting to Blockchain Voting'
This article examines the suggestions that “voting over the Internet” or “voting on the blockchain” would increase election security, and finds such claims to be wanting and misleading. While current election systems are far from perfect, Internet - and blockchain-based voting would ►greatly increase the risk of undetectable, nation-scale election failures◄.
people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/pubs/PSNR20.pdf
2.6.19. Wired/Bruce Schneier.
"Much has been written about blockchains and how they displace, reshape, or eliminate trust. But when you analyze both blockchain and trust, you quickly realize that there is much more hype than value. ►Blockchain solutions are often much worse than what they replace◄."
www.wired.com/story/theres-no-good-reason-to-trust-blockchain-technology/
6.5.20. Dark Reading.
Interview with Eugene Spafford.
"The issue there is if you are voting independently, there is no way to generate a receipt that both you can see and encompasses what is going on. People claim that ►blockchain◄ would do this. But that is inefficient - ►it has not been shown to be completely trustworthy◄. There have been several solutions put forward [for a paper-verifiable audit trail], but they have proven to be buggy. Going back to that comment I made about having the general person being able to look at the technology and accept it as correct, we have people who work in the field who aren't able to look at blockchain and say it is correct. So we have a real problem here. ►If you are going to have a centralized audit trail, you are back to having a voting center◄."
[Eugene Spafford is a cybersecurity expert and Purdue University professor]
www.darkreading.com/risk/qanda-eugene-spafford-on-the-risks-of-internet-voting/d/d-id/1338011
As for being immutable...
1.5.20. Coin Telegraph.
⊠ in 2019, there were ►12 cryptocurrency hacks◄:
⊡⊡ Worth: $292 million
⊡⊡ Data: over ►500,000 pieces of customer data stolen◄
⊠ Reality: more hacks on cryptocurrency exchange are taking place year after year
cointelegraph.com/news/most-significant-hacks-of-2019-new-record-of-twelve-in-one-year
Bruh why do you have all this on tap, do you have this saved in a doc or some thing
@@shopielong2915 I've been a computer systems analyst since 1973. While Google is fabulous for finding information, my brain has a limited capacity. I run XAMPP as localhost on my laptop, and use Dokuwiki as my Content Management System (CMS). When I read something interesting, it takes only seconds to document it in Dokuwiki for later reference - it's called "being efficient."
The question is: did my post offer YOU any valuable information, and do you understand there is no current technology - including blockchain - that is safe, secure, that can be audited AND provides the anonymity required by the Constitutions and laws of the fifty states and Washington DC?
XAMPP:
www.apachefriends.org/index.html
Dokuwiki:
www.dokuwiki.org/dokuwiki
Yeah nah it was a good read skimmed through them all
Secure online banking transactions involving millions of dollars are done 247. Why not apply blockchain and multiple forms of verification to voting online? The popularity of Bitcoin speaks to the level of confidence people have in the security of online transactions. And with so many people doing their taxes online, why not just let people vote by the same process used to secure people's tax returns?
That’s what I’m not understanding neither because we do damn everything online I don’t see why we still don’t have online voting.
vote manually and vote online in booth at the same time. if online and paper ballot vote of a citizen don't match then the vote on paper counts
That is illegal in our country. dRump already suggested it.
@@oldladywhocares3223 make an election app and vote from smartphones
What if you have to have your camera on the whole time you are voting, show your drivers license to the webcam and say out the candidates name you are voting for.
Can we build voting system on the blockchain? Build a smart contract with 1 token issued to each registered voter. It's only good for 1 election. The wallet cannot hold more then 1 token, and it can't transfer or aquire more tokens during a certain period of time.
Even if it maybe isn't a requirement in the USA, I think a voter needs to be able to understand how the voting works, why it is secure and why he can trust it.
That can't be done with only voting as it is way to complex, but is quite simple with a pen, some paper and a box.
The problems with in person voting in the USA are created by politicians. That's nothing you solve with some "magic" technology.
In other countries you don't have to wait hours to cast your vote. You walk up and cast it within 5 Minutes. That's for 99 % of the population faster then using some crazy online Service. That certainly also would be possible in the USA, but that must be wanted.
because our internet sucks just look at how many kids are struggling with remote learning
demonatemu no? Not our. My internet is absolutely amazing. It’s just that the poorer you are the less you have. That’s just a fact.
Thats on ur country
@@chrisding1976 US has the worse broadband speeds among OECD countries lmao
Dumbness cant be changed might it be online or in person platform. Stupid is stupid.
The system now sucks. There’s no excuse for lines or not having it be a national holiday. Also ranked choice voting should be implemented for every election in every state.
Great work Nate! Definitely a big story, especially now
Tech savvy country saying they can't secure online activities 🤦🏻♂️
@Brad Sanchez how about creating unique voting code for each citizen. which will get accessed by biometric.
Offline voting isn't necessarily secure. If voters can't see the final database (anonymized with ids) to see their vote, the count can be manipulated.
Offline voting with votes counted by hand is almost 100% secure, unless you think the half dozen people or so counting the votes are all conspiring together
Which counties count by hand?
@@GmanMilli off the top of my head Portugal, the UK and Brazil but if you go look most European countries will do likewise as well as most countries in general. Few countries use stuff like voting machines
Those are countries, not counties.
What is worse than all of this is the fact that American's have to REGISTER to use their RIGHT to vote.
If you have to register then it's not a right, so why they call it a right to vote is beyond me.
Wish could vote online as the closest U.S embassy unreachable to me.
Do a postal vote. Postal voting works great when it's not intentionally hampered...
Go with a open source censorship-resistant peer-to-peer immutable network.
Was looking for this comment lol
I’ll just go down to my local open source censorship-resistant peer-to-peer immutable network and get one today!
Great, open source. How do you prove that the code on the server you are connected to is running the right code? How do you prove the runtime, operating system, firmware, or interpreter is un-compromised? You can trust paper. You can trust the scale of the voting system. But how do you verify at scale a system like that is working. Why couldn’t I just submit 15 votes or be “hacked” to cast 1 of my own votes and 14 of someone else’s vote.
Mark Amber the best we can hope for is that software source code would be subject to FOIA.
Kyle Alm my point is that there is no way to trust that the code you see is the code that is deployed. Even if you have a completely signed and traceable root of trust, someone still has to put the microcode on the CPU on the servers. To affect a national analog electron you need malicious actors all over the country and extreme secrecy in a very visible process. To affect a digital one you need basically nothing, unless the entire electorate can dump and read the firmware and the assembly code for all chips in their machine and the master “counting” machines (anywhere where their data is clear text)
Hmmm and TESLA on outage, better stick with pencils and paper, your internet isn't reliable
Call me crazy but why do you need a fully online system? What’s wrong with counting votes at the town level, electronically or through slips, and slowly transferring the information via envelopes to higher levels of governance. Seems like it’s a good way to have accountability because there will be a record of votes for every town, county, state etc. All the while ensuring that our elections are safe.
Nope. Not until people can create a truly _unique_ identifier that is very difficult to "spoof." That may require the Internet switch to IPv6, where there are enough distinct IP addresses for everyone.
Why is tge guys eyes so open 0:30
If we can do the census digitally then we should allow for digital voting.
So it's safe to do your banking online, but not voting...?
Banking isn't anonymous, and much lower stakes. One person's money vs the fate of an entire nation.
Online voting with a Block Chain app would insure security , well into the future, excluding all quantum computing from any access to data or apps.
It will never work if you can’t secure you emails or bank accounts from any corporate or private organizations.
East African Federation is looking to move voting to online with block-chain in late 2020's or early 2030's. They would have a population of about 200,000,000 by that time, if Ethiopia and Somalia have not joined yet. So it's not population just will power.
And who understands that technology? How do you explain that to somebody?
Why would you want to rely on something only a few people understand, which probably has flaws, if in person voting can be understood by nearly everbody?
Most people are proud of their voting and will state openly, I wonder ifnanonimity of vote is really such a big issue in XXI century.
All you need is basic information & 2 step verification. Not that hard to put together like Google.
Voter's profile w/ name, #, Verified State ID, Address verified by PO, and a security question.
In estonia, we vote online and everything works out well. Much easier and accessible and onlime voter participation is on the rise every election.
These “experts” need to chill with their words. China is still trying to figure out how to improve people’s lives living on $1-2/day and bring tap water. No one is interested in being your “adversary” unless you decide to pick the fight
I'm sorry to hear your mother dropped you as a child.
You know it's disaster when you let voting online decide for your country future
The future of voting is online in my opinion.The security concerns are fixable.
I say yes, as long as we have the ultimate firewall of the captcha
I AM NOT A ROBOT
You could actually use the blockchain as a secondary verification level to make voting online seamless. Most of those concerns are eradicated with blockchain technology.
No they are not.
@@rathernot6587 yes they are. Maybes not ones we have today, but in theory yes. You could use the blockchain as an additional layer to ensure votes are Authenticated and private and counted. I’m not saying using blockchain to vote, but use it as an additional verification level
If you bank online you can vote online, it’s more convenient but as with anything if I cannot be done properly it won’t work.
This has been solved already! Do more research, blockchain is a digital trust ledger impossible to modify.
it isn't; with the amount of recourses a hostile government will throw at it they WILL find a way.
Blockchain is absolutely not safe for voting
Nor impossible to modify
There's not a single tech device/software/block-chain that can't be hacked with enough reasources. That's the issue will always have in our modern world we've created.
@@dru4670
If you deployed 1000+ nodes per city and everything is decentralized with a rule set that demands 80%+ of the nodes agreeing, it will become untenable to try hacking the system. (I'm assuming that quantum computers are not at play here.)
They should just do mail in voting on a national level and done, there is no need to complete things to do it online if there are that many issues
We Don’t need to make it more convenient to vote, people with the mindset of convenience are going to pick a candidate out of convenience and not for the philosophical right reasons. If you don’t have the time energy or interest to understand and know that facts, then your opinion really doesn’t matter.
Well, waiting for hours in a line (as it seems to be in quite a few poor neighborhoods the case) doesn't have to be. Also a national holiday would help people to cast their vote. You certainly could make in person voting easier. Voting currently doesn't require the same amount of "will" for everybody. That seems wrong.
is not about online or offline. its about convenience.
open voting booth in every Walmart . problem solved.
That works until Walmart closes its doors and goes completely online.
So why does the vote have to be anonymous?
No mention of blockchain? Seems like it would be the least corruptible option.
Blockchain is immutable and private block chains can ensure anonymity. I was surprised they didn't mention this, but this is more of a business focused news service.
Sean van Osnabrugge
Yeah, even have, or had a sub channel called CNBC Crypto. Blockchain is very close to immutable, but face problems when you build other infrastructure on top of it, like smart contracts. Still by far the best bet for digital elections IMO.
I agree the tech isn't there yet and has challenges to be worked out - scalability is still a big problem too. Most promising method besides in person for sure. I didn't know they had a sub channel focused on crypto, so certainly a miss considering the demographic of the viewers.
How are blockchains appropriate for this situation? In this situation, no transactions depend on past transactions, so there is no need to form a blockchain, is there? They also aren't inherently private. Their advantage is in being able to decentralize transaction records, but in this situation, the government would be maintaining a centralized database, so that reason is out. Seems like more of a problem involving asymmetric keypair encryption and verification. But I am not 100% on this, so I would legitimately like to know how blockchains would be useful for this, if they indeed are.
Tony K
Blockchain is a distributed ledger. Mostly used for cryptocurrency at this point, which is what you’re describing.
I’m just recreationally interested so I don’t know exactly how privacy would be insured, but it’s not like people’s names or social security numbers would be on there. It would just insure that any tampering would be easily recognized as the ledger wouldn’t match with all the other ones. So yeah it’s not just useful for currency transactions. With development it has many other use cases.
Never
Wouldn’t block chain technology excel in this issue?
Google says...
"Blockchain is the wrong security technology for voting, I like to think of it as bringing a combination lock to a kitchen fire."
- Ron Rivest (the "R" in "RSA")
February 20, 2020. MIT.
'Going from Bad to Worse: From Internet Voting to Blockchain Voting'
This article examines the suggestions that “voting over the Internet” or “voting on the blockchain” would increase election security, and finds such claims to be wanting and misleading. While current election systems are far from perfect, Internet - and blockchain-based voting would ►greatly increase the risk of undetectable, nation-scale election failures◄.
people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/pubs/PSNR20.pdf
2.6.19. Wired/Bruce Schneier.
"Much has been written about blockchains and how they displace, reshape, or eliminate trust. But when you analyze both blockchain and trust, you quickly realize that there is much more hype than value. ►Blockchain solutions are often much worse than what they replace◄."
www.wired.com/story/theres-no-good-reason-to-trust-blockchain-technology/
1.5.20. Coin Telegraph.
⊠ in 2019, there were ►12 cryptocurrency hacks◄:
⊡⊡ Worth: $292 million
⊡⊡ Data: over ►500,000 pieces of customer data stolen◄
⊠ Reality: more hacks on cryptocurrency exchange are taking place year after year
cointelegraph.com/news/most-significant-hacks-of-2019-new-record-of-twelve-in-one-year
I think it’s stupid that we still don’t have online voting with everything else we do is all done online lol like come on .
it's possible to do vote online with encrypted and blockchain system. try with college electoral system first. it's just same concept when we do internet banking.
Vote online and send a paper vote by snail mail. Easy fast results, easy to compare with paper results.
secure online voting would further promote democracy
The problem is that how do you make it 100% secure, as one small crack in the system could lead to millions of votes being changed. That's why nuclear missiles still run off floppy discs
@@beardo8939 actually they swapped the floppies with a specially built SSD
Problem is you can not make it secured. Literally one tiny security issue? Boom millions of votes changed.
I like a paper ballot that I can put directly into a drop box that is maintained by my state government. I like paper ballots that are counted by humans, not by machines. I do not trust the local internet to not have a disruption of service at a crucial time. I also do not trust state governments to have highly secure voting software for websites that absolutely cannot be hacked.
US should take care of its people, that is very important. Online voting can only lead to controversies and rigged results. Russian Federation had already tried to influence US elections back in last Presidential election. It is up to the American public🇺🇲💪#makeelectionsgreatagain.
Realize the increase in population, make federal voting a federal rights laws ( just as federal tax laws are not governed by the state), expand the number of days to be able to vote, and adjust the polling stations to match the population increase. Have vote count overseen by bi-partisan voters. Problem solved.
Good ideas but never happen because most people operating poling stations are volunteers.
We need to go back to paper ballots.
03:13 "laptops and iPhones to vote on", as if there are no other phones apart from iPhones.
Triggered? Clearly he meant smartphones, so what?
That's Murican iSheeps for ya.
We won’t be able to vote online if Moscow Mitch is still in the senate
You need a special day for vote, saturday or sunday
No one could help me until I meet WIRELESSHACKER on instagram i only pay him $50 and he did a great job..
If so many people can go outside for so many reasons, whats the problem with going to vote?
2020
Gee..... what could go wrong?
In the uk we use a very simple and robust voting method called 'pen and paper' the USA is the only country to use voting machines which get hacked all the time do how can online voting be safer.
That’s not true
This is good in the UK but the USA is a tad larger in size and population.
We should be able to.. but corruption and hacking.. so let's do physical mail which has no way to track whatsoever
Bitcoins Blockchain has never been hacked.
@A A yep , problem fixed.
We in Canada will vote in the normal polling station. If you can go to wallmart and the grocery store. You can vote in person.
There is a lot of Real Estate in Canada where there are no people, let alone Walmarts. I am glad that where they are present, you can vote that way.
9:30 Can it be more secure? Yes. Can it be more transparent? Yes. Can it be more accessible? Yes.
They could easily have a multi factor authentication process (signature, photo ID, email, text, phone call, address), with encryption/blockchain and physical copies to ensure the digital vote is not tampered.
This could be a better system compared to voting by mail. And yes, there may be poor Americans who don't have technology to e-vote, but for every e-voter that's one less person standing in line, which means better accessibility for those without technology (shorter lines).
super agreee, yet open to this somehow being dismissed because I know someone wants, too, and maybe has a point (though impossible for me to conceive at this time with my teeny tiny brain). why does this comment have less likes (on 6/30/22 with 8 likes) than some comment about sus/pretentious-tom scott's videos with 89 likes? like he's the barometer??
on Tom Scott's latest e-voting vid in the comments:
"To break an electronic election, you don't actually need to break it, you just need to cast enough doubt on the result."
*Laughs in 2020 USA*
Why You Can't Trust Me (Tom Scott) - czcams.com/video/UaGTFeibOEk/video.html - this coming from a longtime subscriber, just saying
vote by email
because then the elections might actually be somewhat fair
Japan has even never experimented with online voting. I am really sad to hear that the online voting is not anything new.
Team yakiniku?
Also, if your worried about hackers messing with the voting, and you say we do not use computers to vote, but Russia or someone is hacking the system.... isn't someone pulling our legs about everything and simply just confusing the public?