Indigenous vs Native
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- čas přidán 30. 01. 2024
- The differences between indigenous and native, how and when to use them, towards whom each tern is applicable, and some other things to be taken into consideration.
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#indigenous #decolonize #decolonizeyourmind
I forgot to point out in this video that there's a far better term to convey Nativeness for non-indigenous peoples, which also helps avoiding confusion and misleading discussions that interchangeably use "Native" and "Indigenous", and that is "Autochthonous". Have a wonderful day, my dear friends.
Indigenous comes from the Latin word indigena which means 'native' which is formed from 'indi' from the Latin prefix in- that is used to denote derivation and 'gignere' which means beget. Native is also from the Latin word, nativus which has the following definitions:
1.born 2. innate 3.natural 4.original
The root of it is nasci and in this discussion it would mean start, originate
That you or others choose to distinguish between the terms seems disingenuous to me or at worse on purpose to deride people.
For the people that are still arguing with you, that probably did not even actually watch your conversation points, perhaps they SHOULD actually watch your video and then educate us all as to which words and terms would, in their opinion, better describe the two different characteristics you are describing all throughout your video. If they can think of better terms besides "native" and "indigenous" to describe and define everything you were just talking about in the last half hour, they should get in the comments and say it! Instead of being...
Autóctone, adoro essa palavra 😅
From one earthling to another, it's a beautiful world out there.
This is such a good video. As an enrolled member of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, I am Lakota. The Hunkpapa band of the Lakota division and dialect were the original people who settled on the reservation. My ancestor grandfather, Running Antelope was one of the first chiefs to move onto the area designated by the U.S. govt and enforced by the Army.
The Lakota are part of the 3 groups of the Oceti Sakowin which means 7 Council Fires.
The other groups are the Dakota and Nakota. Each group has their own dialect although they share many similar words.
Each division is divided into different bands.
The Lakota also have 7 different bands. I am Hunkpapa which means people at the head of the camp- meaning how the tipis were arranged- they were the first people to greet anyone who came to the camp and decided if they would be invited into the camp. The head of each band is an Itancan.
Extended families make up a tiyospaye. This is headed by a Naca.
Nuclear families are headed by an Ate- father figure. Most of our ceremonies are patriarchal but we trace our bloodlines through our matrilineal side. This often caused problems historically with the govt because originally we did not have last names.
My point is that each tribal Nation in the U.S. has similar ties via their clans, societies, and their bloodlines from inter-tribal marriages. They made treaties with the govt based on their separate identites, culture and languages. Treaty law is still active and there are ongoing legal issues surrounding these historical treaties. The govt makes most tribes use blood quantum and be enrolled in only one tribe although they may have family ancestry in many tribes.
This is true for all 570+ federally recognized tribes in the U.S. There are many tribes in California who are recognized by the state and who are waiting for federal recognition.
This societal and cultural structure is also true for tribes in Canada, Mexico, Central America and South America.
The terms like Native American, American Indian, Indigenous, and even the word Sioux are all government terms in English. Thus is because the U.S. was originally a colony and met and negotiated with tribes over hundreds of years and they fluctuated and changed the terms as they encountered tribes as they moved farther West across the continent. I am a federal citizen by the fact that I am a tribal member. When I am on the reservation, I am not under state or county law, only federal or tribal. I pay state taxes however as a resident because I live off the reservation.
So, I refer to myself as being Hunkpapa when I identify myself to other Lakota, Oceti Sakowin and other people who are from other tribes because the Lakota are not the only band living on Standing Rock because there are also Dakota people who were settled there after their removal from Minnesota. Someone from the Rosebud reservation would say they are Sicangu which is their band name. Someone from Pine Ridge would call themselves Oglala, their band name. Most people consider that Native or Indigenous is too broad and leads to pan-Native or pan-Indigenous homogenousness.
As people Indigenous to the now North American continents, we relate to other Indigenous people around the world as opposed to settler-colonial societies in the U.S. Canada, Australia, New Zealand which are all made up of settlers who define themselves by their national identity but also acknowledge that they are European descendants.
Thank you.
I Am grateful you've taken your time to express your people, the identity struggles we face in N. America, and some of the history how we find ourselves in this moment.
Thank you for your valuable information.
Hunkpapa, the tribe of the great Tatanka Iyotake.
But North American Natives immigrated from Eurasia how can you be native. What is the cut off date. Maori people have only been in New Zealand for 800 yrs.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I have just finished reading ' bury.my heart at burning rock' by Dee Brown which I would recommend to anyone wanting to truly understand the many indigenous tribes and what they suffered . Best wishes
Aho.
I am grateful for the traditional indigenous People on Turtle Island who have remembered the stories and instructions for this hemisphere despite the European colonial attempts to annihilate them.
Thank you so much Arith for your intelligent explanation of the words “Indigenous “ and “Native “. It can be frustrating her in the US. Sadly many of our Indigenous Nations here are completely either gone via planned extermination (assimilation, religions, murder) or each generation is loosing cultural identity and language (which holds so much wisdom and way of being). Also, genetics is so very interesting and we must remember we are all human beings and not believe any of us are better than another. Much respect to all indigenous cultures no matter where we originated. 💜🧡
Thank you Arith! Always a pleasure to listen to you, and have a good chuckle as well. Whow! What a video, indigenous, native , animism and civilizations all explained perfectly! Greetings from a native of southern Africa!
Arith, you explained yourself beautifully. I am not a linguist, but I had to study the subject as part of my study program. Yes, language is something alive and complex.
Although, originally, it seems that the word indigenous referred to the "primitive native, or primitive inhabitant of a place", the map of evolution of the term should be followed. At some point of history, this term acquires a new connotation to designate the exotic inhabitants, the ones who are very different, " the otherness". Who were they different from? From the Europeans. What was different? Their culture, social structure, understanding of life, etc. 👍
Thank you for your nice video. Yes, autochthonous sounds more precise 😅
By 6 min into this video, I already loved the message you were getting across.
Words mean things.
And it's a really good idea to understand those meanings before you agree or disagree with them.
I think part of the problem may be that there are some laguages who does not have a distinction to native and indigenous. I can't recall it myself in my own language to have one
Amazing explanation, as always.
What terrifies me is seeing people return to quoting etymological definitions from some old dictionary after all your explanation about the inherent plasticity and mutability of languages. It is difficult to identify whether it is a lack of ability to understand, a lack of minimal effort, a lack of will, or bad intention.
because they choose to not use that definition. simple as that. words are words, they are there to help us communicate.
In the Anishnaabe 7 fires prophecy it tells of our history, our current present, and the potential future. In it it's our "pale face" brethren that are the ones who end up choosing the path between death/destruction or the final sacred fire that heals the people and the land. Your voice is important! Many people do not listen to us, though it is changing a little - we need white allies and advocates, as other European settlers, institutions, etc tend to listen to you more willingly.
I am Pagan and while by the time it has gotten to me about 3% Navajo and some other indigenous ancestors. I apologize for not using the correct word for Navajo but I'm trying to learn about this part of me and I know this is not the name that is true, but I keep finding different names and I honestly don't know the right one. I have been finding it very hard to find real information, it seems to all say opposite things. There are actually two reasons I want to learn. The first is this in one of the last one of my ancestors to find out about and learn about. The second reason is I'm Pagan I follow my own path not part of a group. I have always been connected to the land, it's killing me having to live in a city again. I believe there is soul, spirit in everything and from what little I have found that I trust is legitimate, I understand that, my ancestors and those that still live are much closer to the land and the spirit of the land still today. For now the closest I can come is those that still practice folk magic, hill magic. My mom's side of the family came from the Ozark Mountains and my great great aunt and my grandma taught me different things and I have a lot of friends that are in the Appalachian Mountains. There are a lot of us that at this time have to walk in both worlds. I hate how our country seems to become more and more divided, when it's a time we should be coming together. I have hear of the 7 fires prophecy and I have always believed it. Unfortunately to many still can't get over their superiority complex and look down on everyone not just like them. These days that seems to include just about everyone that doesn't fit their mold. I I'm starting to have a bit of hope, just from seeing how many are seeming to at the very least try to reconnect to spirit, to earth. I wish people would understand how much wisdom and knowledge that indigenous people's have that would help so many.
I’m of Taino descent and while that hardly makes me an automatic authority on the subject, but I think what you’re saying definitely resonates with my experience as I reconnect with my ancestral roots.
chi miigwech, Arith. Your wisdom and lessons are very important!
Best talk I’ve heard concerning this important subject. Thank you.
That was really useful. I wasn't at all clear about the difference at the start of the video but I am now, lol, so thank you very much for such a clear explanation, Arith. :)
Fantastic video. Very much needed exploration/explanation of topics regarding these terms.
Just finished the video, and I must say. After watching hundreds of your previous videos, this one might actually be the best or at least most important. And that should not take from how good the others have been but speak to how important, relevant, and respectfully illustrated the topic was covered.
You truly are most necessary in a time when many others simply say things without the proper knowledge and context.
This is quite the feedback, thank you friend. Have a wonderful day!
I listened to this video two times. Arith's precise definitions, examples, and explanations of certain words and concepts were valuable to my time. I appreciated how he compared and contrasted "native" and "indigenous." Especially good for me was his discussion of the features of animism that connect with sustainable living. This contrasts with most of us living in "civilization" and with a heritage of some religious traditions. Arith presents information with a distinct angle, edginess, and humor. I also like his pacing when he presents. Please keep posting, Arith.
I busted a gut laughing when you said "What in the holy fuck are you talking about" and I laughed at many points throughout the video, despite being a fairly serious subject. 🤣
It is sad my friend that you even had to explain the difference between the two terms.
Thank you for the humor and being a source of enlightenment.
All of the fury surrounding these definitions lately has made me feel very lost and rootless. My mother was adopted, and I never knew my father. She was born in New Brunswick, from a Maliseet tribe mother and unknown father, and he's from California and of Irish and Welsh descent. (I've learned more in recent years.) Growing up, I had no idea who I was. I was born in Florida, though I live in Canada now. I never felt that I belonged anywhere. Just a random white girl who wasn't special and didn't deserve any community. It's gotten worse lately because people have been shouting from the rooftops that I am exactly that. I'm apparently a colonizer, slaver, usurper who will never belong anywhere. I try not to let it bother me because I didn't have a choice, but sometimes it does. I am utterly unmoored from my genetic past, but I still have to apologize for it.
Personally I don't like the feel of the word Indigenous, when I talk about the nations I come from. I clash with a lot of supremist groups, even some of my own peoples. For me Indigenous is more of a term to distinguish between invasive fauna an flora vs well indigenous flora and fauna. And sadly I have seen it used that way among specific tribes, I have also seen racial supremist groups use the term native to justify some nasty actions. Aboriginal, or First Nation, have a far more peaceful feel to them. As far as my personal Identification, I will say; child of the first nations, or child of the Blackfoot, Cherokee, and Ojibwa. Thanks for posting this video, it was enlightening. I know Indigenous can be used in different context, but for me using it for a person just feel's off. I have the same feel when using the term race, or color, to describe a person. I opt for nationality or heritage for that. I know it is not grammatically incorrect to use those term's but it has more to do with how those terms make me feel.
very informative Arith thank you for explaining so well
I always feel honored to learn from you, thank you😊
hey there ! first ! Thankyou. The problem is that now everyone takes Google as gossple and i have tried looking things up and found such absolute crap. Look up indigenous and it will say : native. Also look up Jul and it will say, giving results for July. No, assthing, Yule. oh, Yule : a noun meaning Christmas --- arrrrrrrg. Thankyou for being here and clearing up the utter fucking nonsense ! p.s Bang on - Excellent video. i'm going to be sharing the hell out of this one.
Excellent video 🌿💚🌿
I am Central American and while I have both Spanish and Native American tribes (Mayan, Lenca, Pipil), I do not identity indigenous because I did not grow up with a tribe and their traditional customs. I do my best to learn about both sets of ancestors. I even dream with them every now and than😊.
well said Arith, well said...
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I so admire your patience and determination in dealing with some of us who just enjoy arguing without really knowing anything. getting offended or playing the social warrior character without knowing what we are talking about, just Dunning-Kruger at its best! 😁 I truly enjoy your content. It must be a real treat to have a conversation with you in person. ☺🙂 take care!
This is a really nice topic, thank you as always Arith 🙏❤
I have to say you are wonderful
Hello there! Yours is such a wonderful feedback, very kind of you and very supportive, thank you so much! Have a wonderful day!
@admittedly I am surprised you aren't married, if I lived near you I would not have settle for anyone else as opposed to never settling ;)
@@angelanderson8841 good to know hehe. Who knows what the future holds ;) best wishes!
@ well....I know that everything from your intellect, ideologies and sense of humor and sarcasm appeal to me enough so that even we're I blind I would be tortured with the heat I am. Left in such a state that my fever would only be quenched if I crossed an Ocean for the sounds that come out of your lips and guitar alone. *sighs* If I met a man such as you I would gladly abandon all my possessions spare the nicest clothes that can be packed into a suitcase and taken overseas :p You make an ice Queen burn with desire 🔥
O termo “ indigena” parece derivar de nativos da India. Isso traz grande confusão, pois não há uma boa palavra que a substitua. O termo “ nativo” parecia ser uma alternativa, mas mão se confirmou. E tua analise o bem apresenta. No fim das contas, o termo ao qual se refere como “animist”, traduz muito bem essa diferença matricial em relação ao termo “civilizado”. Vivemos um momento muito interessante na redefinição de palavras e conceitos. Muito inspiradora a sua reflexão.
You are right, many today have loin soft skin, the slightest touch, sets them off into a wild frenzy.
All indigenous are natives, but not all natives are indigenous, the indigenous are they original people, natives are ones, born to the land, a mother and father that is neither, their child is a native.
In America we have to determine our indingenousness in order to get assistance from our tribes. Also I am learning that black people have been here the whole time they were the black indigenous southern natives lol. The similarities and synchronicity with pagan religion and ours is the same. I think about all your rituals and beliefs, and I compare to what we do and what we call them. I am Bjorn. I live in ND and they love my name up here. They don't expect me a big native dude. I think my mother is a lot smarter than I thought. I have been trying to study every side of all religions. I still have a Christian upbringing but then again I also had a public schooling. And I never let my schooling interfere with my education. Thanks for your help with understanding
Hi there, I'm replying as someone who has lived in the SE United States my entire life, as have 4 generations of my family... please tell me what is so funny about the shameful history of the slave trade, which destroyed so many lives and which was every bit the forceful conversion of African indigenous individuals to Christianity?
People with darker skin tones exist all around the world, and have for a very very long time. That much is true. But to say that the Black people in the American South were always here is to completely disregard a terrible but vitally important part of history, and I will ask you kindly (but only once, kindly) to stop. Your flippant attitude toward this speaks ill of your level of knowledge and maturity, and you should not make jokes about the displacement and enslavement and torture of people ESPECIALLY in a region you yourself have no connection to.
@@VarianAlastair good grief. does there always have to be one. he wasn't making jokes about slavery. and to attempt to tell him to "stop it". Dude....step out.
Another thing that linguists and people with good communication skills understand is that when you’re using a word differently from how the vast majority of people use it, and have used it in the past, the responsibility is on the person using the new and unusual definition to explain why, as you are doing here. One of many other problems is that most media since the popularization of this new sociological definition of indigenous do not do that. This media should, and probably does, expect the average person who has been recently re-categorized as non-indigenous (I have not been effected by this) to feel like their identity is being undermined or invalidated. Another problem is that indigenous had already been used with a different definition from native in many circumstances that did not include anything to do with a particular way of life. A way of life, I might add, that is actually not followed by very many peoples who are considered indigenous by the very scholars who pioneered this new definition.
Thank you for your perspective on an interesting topic.
Your word mechanics explaining this I am sure will help many.
I agree with you on all aspects and thank you for mentioning the Australian aboriginals,.
An extremely interesting people to look into. Very ancient people.
Very well thought out and very well explained. Thank you so much. A lot to think about.
I really appreciate this discussion. I enjoy videos that make me think.
I thought your original statement was straightforward and accurate. I think we are dealing with individuals having issues with reading comprehension.
This video was great!
I considee my self Aboriginal or Native to America because my family has always been here for multiple centuries. I do believe this is the case for many so-called “African Americans” or blacks which is a major controversy in the community right now as we discover the “paper genocide” of our people from Indian or Native to “negro”. This video really helped to understand how and why that happened and how we can ultimately regain our “indigenous” status
For the general public, perhaps "native" and indigenous" may exist as synonyms. For purposes of social/psychological sciences, scholarly works that put forth expert theories, historians, etc. practitioners must be more exact. Sloppy, floppy language should be excluded and, in fact, their interchangeability signals non-expert discussion.
I was born in America--but you see here my problem in calling myself a "native" American? Our huge, continent-swallowing US contains multitudes. (And I generally don't call myself "American," but US citizen.
We have some special problems in our studies which have become highly political.
EXCELLENT explanations !! Although, I'm sure someone will still be butthurt.... because they want to be and thrive on it.
Great vid. Love your stuff kick on love it 👍 ❤
Very interesting ! The united nation organisation publishes a newspaper called Natives, while it is about indigenous people. If I follow your explainations, it is a confusion.
No comment, but always a joy to watch your videos. Have a good day.
You're correct in this talk. So many people don't understand those terms. Maybe if more of your audience had their DNA done and did some study of that ancestral history they would have a better understanding of who they are.
I didn't completely get, what does it mean to be "Indigenous". Do it means to live traditional life? Then are the Highlanders in small villages of Europe Indigenous? Why a Native American can be Indigenous and at the same time watching your videos, which means that they at least partially live in the conditions of the Civilisation? So many questions, that weren't answered in such a short video, but it's ofc still very interesting and helpful!
Very interesting, thank you very much for this video! Especially interesting as we don't have different words for indigionous and native for example in German, it's both just "einheimisch".
Perhaps this is why many people understand it as a synonym, because unfortunately there is no differentiation in their own language. Maybe that's partly where the criticism you mentioned at the beginning comes from 🤔 just a thought that just occurred to me.
Indeed, same in Swedish too, indigenous and native both just translates to "inhemsk". "Stamfolk"/Tribal people I think is how we instead label the peoples who lives by those elementary lifestyles and communities. "Naturfolk"/Nature people is another one also.
Indeed, some languages have no other terms and it can get confusing, so the same term such as "indigenous" can vary in meaning depending on context. The English language has more terms, but in discussions such as these it is surprisingly very narrow the use of the terms. Same as Portuguese (my native language - European Portuguese) we have: "Nativo" ("native"); "Indígena" ("indigenous"); "Autóctone" ("autochthonous"); "Aborígine" ("aboriginal"); "Originário" ("original" - although in Portuguese can also have the same meaning as autochthonous); "Oriundo" ("originally"/"native" from-); "Proveniente"/"Procedência"/"Proveniência" ("provenance"); "Tribal"/"Tribo" ("tribal"/"tribe"), etc.
Well, there is "eingeboren"....🙂, but I have to admit, that it seems to me, that it´s mostly present in last century publications and language usage, not in current ones. Which would prove, how language adapts and changes.......and our worldview too.
@@LysSylva Right, I hadn't thought of "eingeboren"! Maybe that does go with indigenous... But "eingeboren" often seems to me to have a racist connotation in the context.
Yes, language is an interesting thing.
@@MagischerPfad Well, it´s a term from colomial times and all people non-european were automaticly lowest class ranking, Wilde, eben. I hope, that mindset dies finally out.....
I think we are related and these connections in our ancient religions are from before we went opposite directions as ancient north Eurasian euros went west Americas kept going east we need to respect eachother.
Folk who stayed in the Old world had to contend with multiple empires developing intense conquest philosophy we are cousins fighting because of our uncles.
My folk are from Norte Iberia and Mexico my Nana Sancha is from the bausqe lands i am so proud of my blood.
Being part native euro, indo euro and native Mexican. I see it as old friends separating into two then circling the world and reconnecting after 20000 years.
Old friends becoming one again
Reconnect your blood to the phantoms who can no longer fight but will continue to love us after this life.
This indigenous society is Fryr's sword. The ability to live in harmony with nature without dependence upon civilization.
Those processes are still going on, even in Europe and not only with the Sami... Even now there's a methodical destruction of languages, uses, songs and dances... Sad, but true😢
I thought they were the same and I have a masters degree. So apparently I’m a dumb American.
Ya, it's all well and good, except places like England- which had successive waves of influx migration (through invasion, and not) over the course of thousands of years- to the point where terms like indigenous and native become entirely a matter of perspective.
All of this is to say: it does not matter At All what you call some one, nor what they wish to be referred to as.
❤
Wow I get it...very well said!
Another trick with words is Domiciled or Resident, one means your Abode, the other means a resting place, or temporary place, not your abode, so are you a Resident of the State or a state Citizen? Don't be tricked by their words.
I'm not sure I totally agree on the indigenous versus civilization. I see organizations in all cultures. Any time you put people together, someone thinks they (usually a he) are in control on other people whether using nature motifs or no.
i'm very american (and grateful for it) and tend to be very literal which can be a hindrance since, as you imply, language is not necessarily literal. 💙
Amazing video
29:26 That explanation of the difference would have been useful at the beginning just after the lambasting of the folks who are not aware of this distinction.
Arith,
The Psychology o' the Dunnin'-Kruger effect applies to Anthroplogy too, huh?!?
Primitive Folk (intellectually base) think Advanced Folk (well read an' well spoken) are dumb -- or crazy or both! -- mos'ly..., because the un-begun do NOT Know what particular words -- and Those Who use words properly -- are actually refering to or mean.
You've got the patience o' Odin, when He were upside down in a Tree!
🙂
Rick Bonner Pennsyltucky
It goes without sayin', "primitive Folk" does not nescessarlly mean Indigenous Folk with tens o' thousands -- or longer -- years of un-defiled history an' Culture...; They would o' disappeared by now.
🙂
Rick
So if understanding correctly, its more of a matter of scale and how integrated someone is with their surrounding environment?
The things that civilization does are simply impossible in indigenous settings, they require hyper specialization and thus, dependence on the other, which causes the risk of collapse if parts of the machine stop, this is true, but it also allows for developments, technology, science (not same as technology, although nowadays they are mistaken to be the same, they arent) and knowledge far beyond anything an indigenous people is able to do especially in the short term, maybe they can reach it, but it will take much, much longer... It does however come at a heavy cost. The analogy of a candle, the brighter it burns, the shorter it lives. But what is better, is up to each person. I prefer a bright candle that burnts out fast, than one that lasts eons but does nothing.
I guess the cost is up to each to determine which is best, you speak of returning to indigenousness, but I wonder, why would anyone want to? I love camping, spending times outdoors, and even lived alone for half a year in a forest, yet I would not trade what 'civilization' offers for it, ever.
Also, something that i feel the need to correct, civilization is not inherently destructive and self consuming, its sadly the way we chose to do it. But even then, the old technologist dream is alive, the main issue is energy production - with enough energy, you no longer need to exploit anything. We can already transmute elements, we just dont have enough energy output to make that viable, but i can see a future where you can turn sand into iron, trash into any element you need to fertilise the land, dirt into gold, and so forth. If we ever reach such a level, we will be far more sustainable and even environmentally friendly than an indigenous people can be, because not only we aren't at the mercy of seasonality, we can easily repair damage done to the envoriments, replant massive forests while maintaining them, ensure they are fertile without needing complex and fragile 'natural' systems.
Until then, however, it has been a destructive force for the environment, but a massive boon for humans. As most things in history, it will be to the descendants to determine if it was worth it, or not. Those of us living through it have not the perspective to know. I wish it were more respectful of the environment, and of people, but those problems tend not to be part of the machine itself, but of the machinists at the top abusing it for their own sakes, at the expense of others.
A machine is just a machine, how its used is what matters, and we are misusing it. This, we can, and should learn from indigenous people for sure.
So how would you define this for Native Americans who were forced to move elsewhere in the country? Also what about forced assimilation of Native Americans and also people with Native American ancestry, but don't have close ties to their actual tribe. And what about tribes that moved around and kickef out other tribes before Europeans even got here?
I am part Cherokee who were forced to Oklahoma, but the culture and language are lost.
💖💖💖💖💖💖
As i see it, Sami is native scandinavian no matter if they live the traditional life or live a modern citylife and dont even speak the sami language, however a Sami is only indianous if they live the traditional lifestyle and speak the Sami geila and still keeps the old traditions alive. In sweden we have the great word of Ur-folk or Ursprungsbefolkning
Arith, you're totally right. What the holy fuck are people thinking?
I'll just toss in a monkey wrench for a second. When it comes to Native American many will ask, which America, North or South?
Then there's the argument that no one in North or South America called Indigenous or Native is either, since their ancestors crossed the Bering Strait from Siberia into the Americas.
Imo which no one gives a shit about lol, I say, let's respect other cultures, appreciate the good things and then let's all focus on how we can get along on this floating rock and stop allowing ourselves to be manipulated, offended etc, so we can make the most of the time our species has left ( which ain't much).
It doesn't matter where your parents are from in the USA, if a child is born in the USA you are now an American, that is the Law here, even if your mother was in the country for only 24hrs, and went back home, she can claim that her child is an American, even if she left with the child, that child can come back and claim to be Native born American, as long as the mother filed a birth certificate, required at all hospitals, why we get so many coming here.
Basque?
Basque is definitely a very interesting and very complex subject, as to this day the Basque historical background and gene-pool is still under study and there aren't a lot of conclusions, as their origins are still a mystery. The Basque have been around the Iberian Peninsula for thousands of years, which definitely make them Native to the Iberian Peninsula, as some of their own myths seem to indicate early contact with Neanderthals, if we can consider the Basajaun figure as such, which would, at the very least, place them in contact with them 40.000 years ago. Of course, these myths may either have been created in the Iberian Peninsula, or wherever the Basque came from. But, for so long in the Iberian Peninsula, they can be considered Native there. However, their language is one of the very few in Europe that doesn't have an indo-European background, and their DNA analysis show an ancestral past which is still a mystery. In that way, we could say the Basque ancestry is Native to somewhere else, "originating" / "come from-" somewhere else, probably not from Eurasia. The last time the Basque, and most other ethnic groups and cultures in the Iberian Peninsula, were Indigenous, was in the early Peninsular Iron Age, as they have progressively lived within Civilizational Societies and not Indigenous Societies, as was explained in the video.
To my view, "native" is someone born to a place regardless of their ethnic origin, while "indigenous" are people who are ancestrally tied to a place through ancient traditions and lineage - the Turtle Island Nations people are indigenous to north America vs European descendants born in north America are native to their country of birth, but not indigenous to the land.
Also, traditional dress should be referred to as regalia (ceremonial) or garb (daily wear), not "costume" as that term degrades traditional dress as being the same as a Halloween costume rather than culturally important traditional dress.
@14:36, "indigeneity" is a word. 🧙🏾♂️
Show me the kennewick man
Hi Arith, even being native to a town can take a long line of generations before you are seen as native by the natives😅
In the southern U.S. some put stickers of their U.S. state with the word native on their cars. But, in the U.S. native means Native American. Even if i was born in this geographical state, i would not use that word since i am mixed European. Not disagreeing with you. Just here, we can define it finner. (And you know who you're dealing with by the terms chosen. Subtext reveals their political, social personality😅)
I get it. Thank you. Whiskey Throttle.
I had to put my sunglasses on, your thoughts were so brilliant. I live in the U.S., and was born in Minnesota, so I'm a native of Minnesota. My mother was from Norway, and she would tell me all kinds of strange things about "religion", which was not Christian, but she said they were. I think she carried some of the aboriginal thinking into the Christian faith and so most people just thought she was nuts, but I heard it and understood it. May the eagle carry your loving thoughts to the winds and wrap the earth within its embrace. Always and forever.
How about we stop nitpicking and just be equal people? Then there would be no need of a term to put a group of people into a box for purposes of being denigrated by another group of people who just happen to have superior weaponry at a particular point in time?
Dictionaries ruined the fluidity and soul of languages to express emotion and deeper meanings
The Lamas have traditionally suppressed animism, one of the reasons their not such hot sh** they say they are.
I don't agree with your definition of "native". Native must include more than place of birth. Becoming native takes time. If a wave wipes out everyone in Thailand and we repopulate the country with Americans are the babies born on day one there Thai? Without speaking the language, knowing the history, embracing the culture, knowing the animals, mountains and rivers? Territories captured by a certain nation in Europe attacking another right now consider this land "theirs". The children born there get passports issued from nation B that controls the land versus nation A that legally owns the land and the children's parents ethnically and culturally stem from. You see how the definitions have holes.
I see myself as indigenous. According to written records and also family stories we have lived along the same central European river since the 10th century. After a forced monestary stay in the early 11th century by one of my ancestors we changed our lastname. The name we left behind was 1:1 the name of the pagan tribe we stem from.
Many spiritual experiences of mine which are limited to this river valley and even more to virgin forests here prove to me that I am more than just native to this nation in which most are rootless and uncaring about nature and the spiritual.
I am an indigenous in Europe. I am not Sami. My family is more than a millenia old. Our home is not determined by a rent contract and a stamp in a birth certificate.
Hello there. You give the example of babies as not being native to the place where they are born based on, as you say: "without speaking the language, knowing the history, embracing the culture, knowing the animals, mountains and rivers". When anyone is born they do not speak any language, they know nothing of history, culture, or anything else. They are babies. Everything we know as humans was progressively instilled by our upbringing. You can place "white" babies anywhere on the planet and they will speak the languages and know the cultures and be familair with fauna and flora etc. based on the education they get on those places. I know many people, but I would like to give an example of an acquaintance of mine: she was born to Colombian parents, she was adopted as a baby by Norwegian parents. She speaks Norwegian, she knows and is very much part of Norwegian culture, she knows its history (and a good thing too, as she is an history professor) and she is very much familair with the fauna and flora and landscape of Norway. Is she Native to Colombia? Or to Norway? :)
I understand when you say you see yourself as Indigenous, but, as I've explained in the video, that's a confusion and that's not the right word. I can trace both of my parents family line back to the Iron Age and early Middle Ages in Europe, it is registered by family names and other historical events. I'm very much native to Europe. But I'm not an indigenous, based on what I've explained on the video. Both you and I are Native to Europe. Indigenous is not the word we are looking for, for our case; Native is a better term, but an even better term is "Autochthonous". I should have pointed that out in the video. There are far better terms, and Autochthonous is a good one.
@ Thanks for your time and the discussion.
You are obviously correct that babies can't name rivers or tell us food recepies after they calmed down a bit and stopped screaming after birth :) What I tried to bring across, also by saying that a country was resettled with vastly different people in my example, is that the socialisation one goes through via their parents and surroundings is a component of being "native" in my understanding. In your trademark jokingly and little provocant way you summed native up as the place where the Vulva was at birth I think? I need to find that part again.
During the writing of this comment I just found out that "nativity" can be a synonym for birth but also for ancestry and background. Maybe this discussion is especially difficult because of the ambiguity in English and honestly, after looking that up I am a bit too confused to properly discuss "native".
About your acquaintance: I don't think she fits either of our definitions of native then? She was born in Columbia? It should and must not matter on how she is treated socially or per law however . I don't think groups or societies should be exclusive to "ethnic natives". She isnt forced to feel 100% Norwegian or 100% Columbia either, she can be both. She definetly sounds "worthy" of Norwegian citizenship, if that is a direction you wanted to take this conversation, but that's a different discussion. Ethnically she isn't Norwegian but that does not matter except for makeup I imagine and maybe food intolerances (there's interesting differences for example on lactose intolerance across the world). I am happy she found good parents in Norway and it seems grew to like and embrace Norway. I hope she is happy there. I thought Norway only needs oil rig and tunnel specialists, maybe also fishermen, I didn't know you could specialise in history there! :)
@I think a good example and basic test lab is here in the states. Our country is so big and at the same time has done some very cruel things to so many and unfortunately that is on the rise again. But a lot of things also depends on where you live. Im Pagan but I walk my own path. It was you that actually helped me understand there was a name for much of how I believe. I knew if Animistic teachings out of books from history, and other studies, but written in a teaching and study for classes in school. It was never taught or explained how you have done. That helped me greatly and the different things you have taught about it. I also realized that what my great great aunt and my grandma had taught me as a kid was similar. They were from the Ozark Mountains. I still live in the Midwest, where there are some open minded people, but a lot of closed minded racist jerks as well. I have friends in the Appalachian Mountains and even though that's also part of the so called Bible Belt, just like in so many other places they are not in, or following the church, but the folk magic that developed in different places around the country, some originally mixed with Christianity some not (neither my aunt or grandma were christan, if you asked they just smiled and said no I have different beliefs, they were also much closer and my aunt even knew my ancestors that family had married that came from the original people of this country, their country) but much not mixed with it. Over generations things from the countries everyone came from mixed with where they live and it became a whole new thing. This has happened all across the country and in different ways in different places. Some has been wiped out over the years, but others hang on and get stronger. They as you say are native to the country, but at the same time have maneged to adjust over the generations and still keep some of their old beliefs while forming new ones. Thank you for all your amazing teachings on so many things over the years. As long as you keep doing these I will keep watching, along with like now keep going back to watch the ones you have already done, each time I watch one of the old ones I learn something new that I hadn't caught before. Blessings Be to you 🙏
You are attaching your own notions onto what indigenous means. There is very little difference between the two terms, and they are practically interchangeable. You don't have to be living in the forest and herding deer to be "indigenous". I am indigenous to Britain and I have a normal job and live in a modern house, and no one with non-British ancestry can claim that status, no matter how they decide to live
You are autochthonous (or at the very least, Native, if it helps you more) to Britain, not indigenous. If you are from Britain, I assume your native language is English. Unlike German (as an example), the English language has plenty of terms that convey a better idea and meaning of Nativeness (the one you are trying to express), other than Indigenous.
@ What parameters are you using to determine when someone is "indigenous" as opposed to native, and why do you define them as entirely different concepts? The standard definition is "originating and occurring naturally", how do Britons not fit into that category? My ancestors have been here since we were hunter gatherers and beyond, and we have a longer history here than even Aboriginals do to Australia.
I don't think this is your intention, but this arbitrary difference to me is just something used to deprive Europeans of the legitimacy of their identity and indigenous/native status to their place of origin. I am both native and indigenous to my land as far as I'm concerned, but of course indigenous status is only ever given to minority groups within certain lands, which is curious.
sounds like a bunch of word salad from you on your part trying to distinguish between the 2.
This is dumb, plenty of Australian aboriginals don't live indigenous lifestyles in fact most don't, but if you came and told them they aren't indigenous they would not be happy. As most people didn't choose to intergrade into civilization, it just came with the traditions and cultures of their predecessors. This includes pretty much any race. The logic you use is flawed.
Hello there. As I said in the video, and the conversations I have had and the books written (on the subject) by them and their descendents, most Aboriginal Australians don't like to be called indigenous at all, and the great majority don't want to be called "Native", which is why they prefer to be called Aboriginal. I don't think there would be a problem if you told them they are non-indigenous, precicely because they are Aboriginal. Now, perhaps unconciously, you point out to another problem here expressed in the video: You say, "plenty of Australian aboriginals don't live indigenous lifestyles in fact most don't", and it sounds like you are pointing out that it's their fault somehow. When people are forced to live in a Civilizational Society, they progressively lose Indigenousness. As I said, Indigenousness can be lost, and if most Aboriginal Australians lost their Indigenousness due to being forced to live in a Civilizational Society, the fault is with the Civilizational society itself. Therefore, what you said, only reinforces what I've said about Indigenousness and the fact that Indigenousness can be lost and Civilizational Societies are at the core of that problem.
Hello, first you have the best channel on theses subjects. I'm Scandinavian first nation Americans(native American) german, my Scandinavian ancestors (juste) cane to America and lived farmed married into the tribes helping to fight against the Graco Romans pedo catholic/Christians( i call them worse to their face for personal reasons that have ben done to me) my German grandpa and great grandpa fought against the Catholic nazi both would always say they're still goth of germania with tiwaz at are side. To them the name Germany is when the Catholic religion came and brainwashed the goth people to white nationalists catholic aka Nazis
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