I made a mistake.
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- In this video, I attempt to photograph the Dumbbell Nebula using a large telescope.
Somewhere along the way, I messed something up, because the Celestron CGX-L was not having it.
I had to tear everything down for the night. The mount would slowly drift in the RA axis, even-though the mount was precisely polar aligned.
Do you have any ideas? (Let me know!)
So, I decided to set up ANOTHER rig the very next night and managed to collect about 2.5 hours on the Dumbbell Nebula.
Astrophotography is full of surprises like this - I hope you don't mind me sharing!
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I'm so happy that also experienced guys like you face such problems from time to time 😅 now I know I'm not alone... Keep on going and clear skies from Germany 🤘
As a newbie I have many nights like this but always come away having learned something...even if it's just patience.
Don’t feel bad I am doing good if I remember to take the lens cap off.
Same
Happens quite often believe it or not! There is always a saying in my head, "I concede to you, Universe". That attitude keeps me stay at peace. Good video Trevor!
You are totally right Trevor. Some evenings nothing goes right and you can't figure out why. Can't get polar aligned, autofocus has tons of backlash, camera keeps disconnecting, platesolve-sync just keeps repeating and staying outside tolerance etc etc etc. Then other times it's all just peachy and you're imaging with a minimum of delay. The Gods of AP are capricious. Thanks for sharing this with us.
This video cheered me up, I have bad nights too so it helps to know that I am not alone.
I'm new to Astrophotography but I noticed you setup on your lawn? Maybe using a heavy telescope you were slowly sinking on the one side from the weight?
I use ciment pavers underneat the tripod to prevent this. But usually when you sink it's not even and consistant. Usually when you sink in muck, it's uneven and you loose your polar alignment. The symptoms are like the mount is slipping.
Great stuff, Trevor! Thanks for sharing a "bad" night of Astrophotography, makes us all feel a little better when we don't have great nights either. Been watching your videos since I got into AP 2 years ago, thank you!
Trevor, I appreciate you showing both good and bad experiences. How else can we learn. Whether good experience or bad experience; experience is still the best teacher. Thanks for all the great video. I enjoy them very much. Keep it up.
“That’s what happens in astrophotography sometimes”. Amen, brother !
Peter T theres no god
You sure could use a roll off roof observatory with a couple of permanent piers and mounts. I am building one to house two mounts so I can have maybe one work when I want it to😀. What I hate is the nights where you get perfect PA, great focus and everything working so you set it to run for a hour of exposures, go inside for a cuppa and come out and the clouds have rolled in from nowhere. Love your videos.
Ok, so the CGX-L ,which I have, is touchy, the best feature of the mount is the PC software which supports pointing models, is by far the best software you can have for a mount, originally created for Planetware machines, no time consuming alignment points needed, using the Nextar remote sets you back to the problems era so my advice is: ditch it, just do a once star alignment with as many stars as you can as accurate as possible using the PC software, save the pointing model and after every Polar alignment just load that pointing model. The tracking on this mount is so accurate that PHD requires major tweaking to just feather pulse touch the mount.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who has issues. I actually did The Dumbbell just the other night myself. I used the Redcat and a ZWO ASI183MM with Baader RGB filters. It turned out really well even considering the short focal length of the scope.
Hi Trevor, thanks for sharing. I've had similar issues. Usually a complete reboot of my computer helps. Hope you get settled in your new home. Taken the time you need. The stars will always be there. Cheers.
Hey brother : No I don't mind you share this trouble video ! In fact it is very important and encouraging. It show reality, not just the perfect moments. Live is like this and so I feel it is OK to make mistake, so thank you, i like it !
I've had my CGX glitch out like that before then did a full handset reset to factory default (and upgrade firmware) and never had it happen again. But yeh, a waste of a night. Worth a try if you can spare the time. Congrats on 70k by the way!
whenever you are frustrated do like me: grab a big dobsonian and go visual. No more issues at all.
>Intense city light polution intensifies
Sometimes we learn more from errors than from when it all goes well, excellent video thanks.
Hi Trevor,
as many have already said, it's good that you share also the bad nights. It really takes the pressure off the newbies like myself, realizing that you are not alone at trying hard and not always achieving as planned (took me more than an hour a couple of weeks back to realize that I had simply forgotten to put the mount's power switch ON!).
So please please continue making these videos, with incredible nights and less incredible nights, we all learn from the experience that you share, whether it's good or bad.
Clear skies from South of France.
Please continue to share the bad with the good. As you said, making mistakes or having issues to work through is the best way to learn no matter whether those issues are your own or someone else’s. Have enjoyed you channel for years and your down-home, honest delivery. I have yet to take my first astrophoto, except for a few ok moon shots, but am getting real close as I have just received a Skywatcher Star Adventurer. Thank you for taking me through your learning curve and giving us real insight to the hobby.
I have the same mount and ran into that issue as well. Solution is dont use the level on the mount is off. Get your self a level and use it to level the tripod before you install the head. Also use a board under each leg to distribute the weight when setting up grass or dirt.
We take the good with the bad. I had one the other night trying for a wide field Flame and Horsehead nebula. It was the first clear night in weeks so I had everything set up to cool down. I set the mount to start tracking before it was high enough to start imaging to save time and when I went back out about 2 hours later to start taking pictures, the first few had strange brown streaks in ALL of the images. Tree branches. When I was setting up for the clear sky area I did not take into account the now bear tree branches that crossed right through the frame.
reality check! gotta have nights like those to keep you humble. all part of the experience.
great image, too! keep it up trevor, always look forward to seeing a video from you.
This is the most frustrating and rewarding hobby there is... I'm having some head-scratching times too at the moment. After months of polar aligning trouble the past few nights have seem to have been spot on with alignment stars being bang in the centre of the fov. Slewing to targets has been perfect with each one centred beautifully. The puzzling thing is that phd2 guiding targets west of the meridian has been excellent, typically 0.05 rms. Guiding targets east of the meridian, whether high in the sky or low, the RA just buggers off out of range giving a lot of smearing in the image. With targets east of the meridian and high in the sky the dec bombs out too. Funny thing is I get excellent tracking by not using phd2 for these targets. Something's not right but what? It's amazing that despite going through a set routine repeatedly each time the results can vary so much.
Great videos Trevor, keep 'em coming! Say hi to the dog for me. And the mrs..
Cheers,
Matt
Hehe, I was one of those who told you about the Sky-watcher Star Adventurer :)
I have it, and it's awesome!
Last night, I had good Polar Alignment with it (without software), and I was able to get exposures of 2 minutes without star trails. (No guiding, simply tracking).
I previously used the Omegon LX2 Minitrack, so for me, this SA is a huge step up :p
Hi Trevor, Great image and I have had those night too. But unfortunately I don't have two scopes yet. Thanks for sharing the good and the bad. Looking forward to your next image.
Gotta be just as human as the rest of us, my friend! There are always going to be those days. I've had my share as well. Heading to my dark sky site Thursday for a week long imaging session under the new moon. Let me know when you want to come to the Arizona high country for some great photography.
i just started up in the astrophotography hobby and have been having these nights quite often. i chock it up to that i'm still new and learning and i probably just dont have my equipment set up properly. they only thing i have been able to photography somewhat successfully is the Orion nebula. but i dont like only being able to just shoot that. one of these days i hope soon ill have another great night. Nick's Astrophotography.
Much wiser for learning the little things that can go wrong, clear skies from Sydney...
You are so right with the comment about setting up in the dark. Nearly always the problem is due to overlooking a routine step in the procedure or missing a tell-tale sign that does not present itself until you want things to get precise. It will be informative to know if you do find the cause. Keep up the good work with the videos, I always gain enthusiasm and some great astro tips from them.
I feel your pain Trevor, I waisted 4 hours on the Omega Nebula !! I forgot to fit my dew heater to my Esprit 100, Had focus shift and threw away 80 images !! :(
So many stories like this! It makes the good nights that much better :)
I was capturing in MaximDL with a DSLR and for some reason I forgot to choose black and white image, destroying the bayer for every pictures. It was like taking JPG instead of RAW. Took me two years to realise that, yah, two full years. No wonder I found that pre-processing was not doing much.
I just came back from a long absence, 1 year to be exact. I plugged everything back in the observatory during the day (camera, scope, power, dew heater, guider). At night I fire everything up, everything is connecting, Internet is working in the observatory, only the CMOS battery is dead in the observatory computer, no big deal. Connect to scope, its working first try, great ! But where is the crosshair ? What ? Below the horizon ? I'm actually pointing at the north star... Tried everything to sync to my current position (polaris) nothing is working. I had to manually unclutch RA and DEC to point the scope at where the planetarium thought it was. Never knew why. Still work great, goto are pinpoint.
Man as someone who is brand new in to this hobby and has more struggles than successes it’s nice to see that others make mistakes also
Trevor, I love your approach to this hobby. You just take your lumps and get back on the bronc.............must be your hockey mentality?
I liked that you showed the food with the bad..!! Thank you for all that you do Trevor..!! I really like how you tell all about the products you use in case someone else wants to get them. Love the Detailed process you explain and your Images are Amazing..!!
- Clear Sky’s -
Thanks Bruce! My pleasure man
Balance would be my guess on the drifting.
Also, possibly APT getting confused after incomplete meridian flip where the zwo 294 took a bright photograph in the Point Craft go++ solving phase, thereby suspending Point Craft solving...the scope however kept drifting and I had to do a new GoTo / Point Craft session which stopped all drifting.
Happens to me too pretty often. After 2-3 nights with tracking and guiding failing, the 4th night was perfect without ANY change to routine or settings. Never found the reason.
Your videos are amazing and very inspiring to go on and set a bar bit higher every time!
Great shot man! M27 is a target that I've been eyeing recently as well. That's one thing with this hobby though, gotta take the bad nights with the good... Clear skies!
I don't think I saw you use pads. My guess is that you placed your mount down on a particularly soft piece of earth. Just a half an inch of settling after your alignment will give you crazy drift. Get you some of those vibration dampeners. I think they are a gimmick for that regard, but they give you a wider surface area to spread the weight of your rig over.
Astrophotography requires so many things to work correctly at the same time - every time I changed just one thing, I need like an extra two hours to troubleshoot and now I am getting used to it.
Awesome Trevor !! All that frustration and you still nailed it ! !
I just spent a night trying for the heart Nebula with just my camera and tracking mount . 60 two minute subs .i lol and behold , dew covered my lens ( I am new at this )
I hear you Trevor, happened so many times for me and in a nice way its nice to know it happens to you too! Clear skies!
I'm sorry you had a bad night of shooting. I hate when that happens! But it's nice to see that it's not just me running into issues for no damn good reason lol Currently, my EQ6r craps about 10-15 minutes before the meridian flip is set to happen and IDK what the deal is with that lol Your Dumbbell turned out great, though!
Also, I really enjoy seeing all the different gear you use. It makes for good content and it's informative :)
It’s great that you put up the bad with the good! People too easily think everyone thing goes perfect for CZcamsrs and something is wrong with themselves if their own experience is different! Thanks for all the hours you put into this!
I’ve just barely dipped my hands into this hobby and I get frustrated about it. I love your videos and they’re so helpful and useful. This video has helped me the most. It’s hard starting out in this hobby getting frustrated about things so it definitely makes it a little easier knowing you get frustrated the same as me and others.
I haven't started yet, but you sharing those times when things don't go quite right will help me not get frustrated and quit. Thank you!
I don't mind you showing the bad nights as well, we can't all be perfect!
i have done this kinda. I went out outside and was ready to shoot. I started my guiding and the guidestar just started to drift away...i was so annoyed and wasted the entire night. Went outside the following day, and there it was.............. i had NOT plugged the st4 cable into the guide camera 🤦 lol. Lesson learned, don´t rush your setup process
So Im wondering what is up with all the CGX issues many are having....did not buy that mount. Maybe that was a good thing. Rock on Trevor!
Thanks Eddie! I honestly don't think it's the mount. I'll need to try again with a new power supply
I'll embarrass myself now. Had similar drift issues, turned out I was so tired, well, lets just say I wasn't polar aligned on Polaris :D Thanks for sharing :)
Yeah, I have experienced many nights of stuff randomly going wrong and then it magically fixes itself. 😂
Well worth the effort for that amazing picture! It’s important for people just getting into this to see that not every night goes well!
Frustration is when you are all set up, polar aligned and star aligned, you slew to your object near the zenith; it's there in the camera; then you fire up PHD2, find and focus your guide star, calibrate, start guiding, start imaging, and then PHD2 starts yelling at you because your camera is jammed up against the tripod! Whereupon you do a meridian flip but while swatting a mosquito you bump into the telescope, knocking out your star alignment; then you go to re-align and the clouds roll in! Happened to me the other night. Arrrrrrgggggh!
Thanks Trevor. Always learn.
It really is amazing how something will break in this hobby for no good or apparent reason! Nice picture none the less. Besides, have you got a license for that WO scope? It's a monster
Great video Trevor. Its a good idea to include the difficult times. Thats life and it makes it all the more real. Wonderful shot of the Dumb Bell nedula by the way.
Great videos. I love that you share YOUR experiences and I don't expect perfection or that you cover all possible aspects or equipment makes and models.
Fantastic shot! Please update if you figure out what your issue was with the first setup. I've had that same problem with my Celestron CGEM mount multiple times with heavier telescopes and the alignment star just begins to fall/move without apparent reason. Thanks for also sharing the frustrating aspects of astrophotography!
I love to see hiccups. Mounts not cooperating, dust n spots on corrector plates ect. Helps me not obsess! Great photo!!
I understand the pain of something never going right on the prefect night. I had my rig outside waiting for the space station fly over strait azmuth, As soon as i seen it. i started to track and i forgot to focas the scope. so hurried and focused it. But it wasn't coming into focas. I said screw it and used my dslr with my hands. Turns out my cool down cap was the only one off and the full lens cap was still attached lmao.
Try kicking your mount halfway into your 3hr imaging session. Or leave the lens cap on and see how long that takes. Maybe screw up your focus then throw 200 pictures in the trash right after you take them! 😆 We've all kicked ourselves plenty of times.
Thanks for sharing because all we aspiring astrophotographers see typically when we look at a video is how everything seems to go as planned, then we go out there..and crap..lol. Thanks for sharing this.
I'm glad it's not just me :). My set up was perfect. Was trying out the new Optolong L-Enhance filter (after watching your video) to get the Crescent nebula. First five 5 minute subs looked awesome, then automatic meridian flip kicked in and post flip couldn't plate-solve and tracking was way off. I couldn't figure out what was wrong. It was after midnight and I had to work the next day. Just shut it all down and it has been cloudy every day since. That was three weeks ago. :(
Yep, we all have nights like that, thanks for sharing, DEFINITELY keep bringing us your experiences warts and all 😀. Concrete looks awesome bro 👌🏻
I found that you MUST Manually Turn On Tracking on EQ6-R, I used EQMOD to turn it on right after power up is complete.
It sucks because I do not remember having to do this when I first started using this mount.
Great pic Trevor. I’m new to astrophotography so very familiar with problems and some of the frustrations. I’ve used your website and videos to guide me through the processes of getting into this hobby. Just wanted to give you a shout out for your dedication of getting this info out there for noobs like me!
I drove an hour out to a dark sky site, only to find I’d forgotten my tripod! Doh!
i once connected the RA cable to the DEC and vice versa and it took me the majority of the night to figure out why my drift alignment just wouldn't work and everything would always wander off screen.. it was a rather new mount, so i thought there might have been something wrong with it and i felt so stupid when i finally did figure it out. at that point it was too late for imaging though, so i had to tear down the setup and drive home again.. such nights just happen..
Hi Trevor. I also have the CGX-L and have experienced the same issue. I slew to an object an then it just drifts off the screen, even though I have tracking enabled and all the settings are correct. Sometimes it happens immediately after slewing to my target (which might be backlash and the RA) or it can be in the middle of a session after the mount has been tracking fine. It's frustrating as hell. There is no consistency to it, so it's hard to eliminate other factors.
Just last night I was able to get my rig up and running for the first time at college.... And then at 1 AM the sprinklers in the field I was at turned on. I used my body as a human shield to protect my telescope and ASI 183MM but my compter wasn’t as lucky... But hey, at least I know not to set up in that field now!
Just subbed, love the content man. Keep it up, CZcams seems to be pushing your videos in their algorithm for anyone who searches telescopes. Would love to see a vid of you capturing the deepest images your telescope is capable of. (if you haven’t already because I’m a new subscriber and haven’t seen most of your videos) Anyway keep the quality content up!
"Once I thought I made a mistake .... but I was wrong." Nope. It's only a mistake if you don't learn anything.
Hey Trevor, you got sidereal right! Finally ;)
Great video btw, the frustration on a bad run is relatable. Please keep the videos of bad runs in too. It is kind of comforting to see that every one has bad ones.
Thanks for posting, I still haven't got my first deep sky object, or any good pics of the planets. Not giving up yet. Clear Skies All
I always enjoy your videos! Thanks for letting me see your love of this hobby and the seeable UNIVERSE!
I did the Dumbbell for the first time this week... I had my focal reducer on my 8SE SCT, I might take it off for a closer shot. And oh boy do I know frustrations! I'm still new at this, so I expect it.
I'd like to say that "never happens to me" but I would be lying. That's what makes astrophotography fun but tough, it's not for the faint of heart! Also, If I were going to take someones picture and add a giraffe, I would at least let the person know. - Cheers
You still ended up with an excellent image. That's what counts Trevor. Nice one!!
Thank you for posting the realities of the hobby!!!!! Not all nights are perfect.
Great video, thanks for sharing both sides the good and the bad! Awesome photo!!
Great video, Trevor. I am just starting out in deep sky photography and awaiting the arrival of my ZWO camera this week. I have had many bad nights with mistakes, but I get a thrill out of tinkering with the astro-gear anyway, so fails are good for learning. By the way, a thought about what may have caused a problem for you: Were both clutches absolutely tight? Maybe a loose clutch would cause the drift you mentioned? Just a wild guess... Clear skies.
Another great video Trevor! Thanks for sharing your failures along with your success. Gives me hope for all my failures. Lol. And wow, what a whopper that W.O. is!
I had a night like that with my CGX and it was a loose bolt on the base. I think you're missing that front one on the mount.
Love the good and bad. Beautiful picture!!
Old video, I know, but please continue to share nights and sessions that didn't go as planned. Since we ALL experience those nights where stuff just won't work properly, it makes the videos all more relatable to watch when seeing amazing guys like yourself also have those nights happening. A silly mantra I like to use for those nights is try to think of what I've learned. If I messed up something, I now learned another thing *not* to do for the next session.
Haha! Astrophotography a such hobby. When you think, you are there, rigs or equipment working well then... That was same situ for me. I started to shoot Bubble nebula, then everithing went fine. (I use HEQ5 and 2nd telescope ED80, asi120mm mini for guiding (this is new thing, and way way way better than my old touptek guiding camera!) controlled by PC, with ASCOM and C2C..) So process ongoing, suddendly the stars becomes stripes... I switch to PHD2 screen... whoooo no tracking the graf going mad. Then i discovered the ASCOM window "no tracking". I push it and it comes back to "sidereal".. So start again.. 900s subs... after aprox 5-6 minutes same s**t! Try again.. And it comes same.. I try to google it, uses forums for what is the issue.. It seemed some software issue. Then i got a tips: tick out the "mount limits" in ASCOM. I did it, and yesterday worked fine. I guess the problem was, the bubble neb comes almost went to the zenith from my location and that was the issue.. So sometimes live is not so simple.. :D
Misery Loves Company! And we've all been there. Thanks Trevor!
The more complicated a system is, the more Murphy's law will kick in.........
Dear Friend
Yes, we all have to deal with things that are normally at 5 min ready cost suddenly an hour and do not know why and if you get it solved then there are suddenly clouds and you can packing.
Thanks for another great video Trevor, I have had more perfect nights that turned out to be epic fails than I care to remember. I think everyone in this hobby has been there. Thanks for sharing.
Kind of falls under the rule of: A bad day of golf is better than a good day at work. In this case astrophotography. Still an awesome result for the dumbbell nebula! 👍
Had the same thing happen and my problem was a very slowly slipping 7.5Kg counterweight. Only figured it out when breaking down and noticing the weight was almost at the bottom of the bar.
I had a night that in July, I drove extra far for darker skies. Set up as usual except for the orientation of my DSLR on the ball head on my tracker. I polar aligned everything was perfect..... Nope. Could not get accurate tracking to save my soul. After wasting hours, fog rolled in and I was done with just a few shorter usable subs.
On the way home I popped into another location that was much closer to home but not as dark, just to really analyze its usability.
I noticed it was higher and the local fog was much less apparent. Up goes the tripod, tracker camera and I set the dslr back to the old ball head orientation.
In about 5 minutes I was snapping off a few sub's manually with a cheap release rather than hooking up the laptop. Tracking was spot on and I was annoyed at all the wasted time. By then the moon was rising so game over.
Sometimes the Gods smile, some times they laugh and point.
Problem was balance. Changing camera position threw the balance out beyond what could be managed with the counter weight.
As another side note, I am shooting with a 300mm autofocus, stabilized lens. It has been acting up lately and bit me hard when I was visiting a level 2 dark sight ( did I mention it was DARK, and awesome!!) I basically came home with nothing, but a few last minute wide field sub's of the milky way...still cool but...
Solution, which never dawned on me at the time....I taped off the contacts on the lens. It just operated a manual focus optic.
Problem solved, but the dark site is 7 hours away, so can't exactly pop down there on a whim. Live and learn.
Could of been the ground still settling from water content change and weight of new concrete.
I have seen the same more than a few times with my CGE Pro. I never figured out what caused it and once it starts running away, the only fix I could figure out was to just restart the mount and start over.
Sometimes when I'm feeling nebulous my family members think I'm a dumbbell.
Your results are "stellar"; I like seeing the struggle as well as the victory but it would be nice to have some clue what went wrong and how to avoid that again. I guess "don't set up in the dark" is enough of a take away if a bit too unsatisfying.
Totally understand, i am a complete beginner and had a melt down the other night.. can only imagine the stress with the proper gear...
The drift could have been due to any number of things. Clean power to the rig, refraction issues etc.? Probably would need to analyse all the steps in the setup, so by a process of elimination can arrive at the most likely cause.
I was thinking power. I used the same adapter I use for the EQ6-R (12V 4A) - but I think there is something at play here.
No problem didn't mind and thanks for the nice picture.👍👍👍🇧🇩