Behind the Scenes with a Former Bethel Elder
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
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Here's a playlist full of videos about the bad doctrine at Bethel, Redding: • Confronting Bill Johns...
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Here's a compilation article all about the false teachings of Bethel, Bill Johnson, Kris Vallotton, and more: www.themessedupchurch.com/blo...
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Spent two years in the Bethel School of Super Natural Ministry here at Gateway Church in Olympia, Washington. Had “red flags” the entire time- now, years later-I’m so thankful I’ve been opened to their false gospel. Spent 32 years in a Pentecostal/Charismatic persuasion-now I sitting under teaching in the Bible--book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse!!! So blessed!!!
Any affiliation with Gateway church in Dallas TX?
Should take about 60 seconds to realize a school of "supernatural" is a scam when no miracles ever happen. When no one can walk on water or raise dead people or heal the blind like Christ and the apostles did that should shutdown the school with everyone walking out.
I’m looking for a good Bible teaching church in Olympia. What church are you attending?
Good for you! God bless your soul! To me, personally, the name of the school is a big giant red flag of itself. School of supernatural ministry??? Who are we kidding here? the prophets and the apostles didn’t need to go to a supernatural school to be able to do their ministry. You don’t “learn” supernatural power. It is given to you by God through the power of His Spirit at the right time and place.
@@tonyaahn540 , Calvary Chapel Olympia, 10:00 AM on Sunday
My fiancée broke off our engagement because I refused to join her in the worship of Bethel. She began listening to bills podcast and was drawing in more and more. She refused to see the truth from the scripture I shared contradicting bills sermon. Will you pray with me in that Sarah will have her eyes opened to this false movement.
you may have dodged a bullet my friend,,,Yes, pray for her eyes to be opened...but beware
YES praying for Sarah and all the rest of them.YHWH GOD will bless you for not giving in to those false counterfeit spirits, Caleb. Good job!
Pray and fast.
Caleb, it's been 5 months since you posted..can you give a report back please.
Dude, you really want to commit your life to a girl that can't follow your lead? Considered yourself lucky. What would you do if y'all were married? That'd be a mess.
American Gospel brought me to the Lord. Being raised Catholic I was never going to be good enough to get to God. I felt such JOY after watching American Gospel! Praise be to GOD!
Praise God!
Great! When lies are exposed, the truth will set people free.
Praise the Lord! That series of movies is great. They have American Gospel: Christ Crucified and American Gospel: Spirit and Fire also.
@@RebeccaJeffersonOAC where does one watch all these? I'm in europe and don't know where to watch. Thank you.
The American Gospel documentary is Calvinist. Calvinism perverts Bible truths such as perverting Eternal Security into perseverance of the saints. It is also works salvation repackaged by saying fruit comes before believing in Jesus.
Calvinism denies free will and makes God the author of sin: czcams.com/video/bPJwoWDwGZQ/video.html
I lived in Redding for about 10 years. Did school, led worship at Bethel, met my wife, who’s from Redding there. Mark is the real deal. He’s done a lot for the whole Redding/Shasta County community.
His words echo the thoughts of many that have left, myself and my wife included.
Loved this dialogue, gentlemen.
Took me 8years to wake up from the Bethel
Cult culture. I now stay as far away from anyone I use to spend years doing life with. They are a bunch of sick and abusive people. Even their local church plants i spent time with are very very sick and twisted individuals who will abuse you, speaking from
8yrs of experience
Thank you sir!
My former church got sucked in to the Bethel movement, I attended the first School of The Prophets in 2006 in Redding. Ultimately this destroyed our fellowship and wrecked the faith of many individuals along the way. Bad theology is a cruel taskmaster.
I remember our old NAR leader bragging that his name was on a “heretical watchdog list.” He was basically saying “those calling me out are just religious but our church has the “more of God, we’re much more spiritual than they are.” So prideful.
When people from their congregation confronted or questioned leadership and were considering leaving the church, the leaders would call that “We’re burning away the chaff.”
We look back now and see how dysfunctional and manipulative that was.
Or else they say, "Carole probably wasn't really saved in the first place, or else she would have stayed here."
Classic church of Sardis
@@Window4503 As I recall the sin of the church of Sardis was no deeds.
Glad others are speaking up. I was there in the school 2009-2010 and had A LOT of questions about why what they taught was out of context with scripture. No one could give me logical or biblical answers. I spoke up and confronted leadership openly, publicly with the Bible during 2nd year. Then I was given an ultimatum, submit to authority or leave (even if it completely contradicts scripture I was told). That's when I left.
Thanks for speaking out. It appears that the Bethel ultimatum of “submitting to authority” is their modus operandi for shutting down anyone that questions the Bethel teachings
Good for you!!!!!! Hallelujah!!
Good for you -- both for confronting leadership with the truth of the Bible, and for leaving when they said you'd have to submit to THEIR manmade authority or leave.
What did they teach that didnt line up with scripture?
Can someone get some specific details down because i cannot take this kind of info "they teach off scripture' to those still blinded.
I need some actual specific details.
Like when Jenn Johnson said the holy Spirit is a blue genie.
Even that will be dismissed as her joking around.
Pls those whi know list off some false teaching.
I find this discussion disappointing.
@@destinycoach5 Bill Johnson in his Book Heaven invades Earth, Chapter 11 .2 (i have to translate from German, so it is only the Meinung oft his words and not the one you will find in the english Version of the Book) Bill quotes Luke 5:6-8 and Bill explaind, „Who had told him that he was a sinner? Nowhere does one read that there was any preaching and admonition on the ship that day - only that there was real fishing. So how did he come to this conclusion? It was the miracle. Power reveals. It draws a line in the sand and forces people to
divorce.“ Now read Luke 5:2-4 and you will discover, that Jesus came in to the boat of Peter to preach. I think the teaching of Bill Johnson is unbiblical. In the metioned Book you can find more of this.
I used to be heavily into bethel and Todd white teachings. Thank God my eyes were open to the truth and He completely changed my heart to the truth. I also watched American gospel during the time my heart was changing and I can't be more grateful. 🙏 Thank you Messed up Church. I watch you you guys all the time. Keep up the amazing work. I think this will be maybe your most important interview yet.
How did you get out? Did someone talk to you about it or was it just Gods will to open your eyes one day?
Bravo Mark Mack! I worked at Bethel for 3 years and I can completely validate what Mark says about Kris and his rude/brash personality. I have some stories of my own. Thanks for speaking the truth Mark!
I have been a christian for over 37 years...been involved in every kind of ministry available to me during those years. I love the Word of God, committed to Christ. I stopped in to visit my old church...long story...but anywho...they were showing a video "teaching" by Kris and I had never seen or heard of him before that. I was thinking the whole time...who is this joker? Wow, he really thinks a lot of himself...then the church took time to "read" a guys past on the stage in front of the class (supposedly "gifts of the spirit")...just like the psychic shows do...I left grieved, cried that night over how far downhill that church has gone and have never been back. It was very demonic...YES DEMONIC. What the brother said in this video is that very few even read their Bibles so they believe whatever is told to them...as long as they throw the words "spirit" ,"jesus" , "love" into the word salad
Truth about the Bethel "churches" needs to be told. Thank you for being brave and stepping out to speak up.
AMEN 🙌🏻. 🙌🏻
okay, I wondered if there were more "Bethel" churches out there.. if a church name is "Bethel" does it mean it has affiliation with "Bethel Redding"??
@@cat-bg3rv I thought it was more than one... I may have been mixing it with others that use the word Bethel too lol🤷🏻♀️🤦🏼♀️
@@cat-bg3rv no, we have a bethel baptist church in my town
@@2singHispraise okay, thanks 👍
I agree about the Holy Spirit. It says in scripture one or two speak in tongues at a time and that there is an interpretation for it. The only time people convulsed uncontrollably was when demons came out. So it was the demon shaking them, not God. We left a church I was heavily involved in for 5 years. It was like going through a divorce. The depression was incredible. I had a mental breakdown. It got so crazy there that we had to leave. The meeting with the leadership we had when we to,d them our reasons for leaving confirmed our decision. The more they talked, gaslit and tried to manipulate us, the more we knew it was time to get out. It’s been 3 years and I’m still healing spiritually and emotionally. My husband is very guarded now. We still have not found a new church, as I have major trust issues. I have to let God deal with those people because He can do it better than I can. Thank you for admonishing the body and standing up against this ungodly insanity.
Chris Rosebrough said CZcams sermons are like a halfway house for those still too wounded to go to church. Take as much time as you need to heal. I pray God blesses you as much as he blessed me. It would be easy and seem righteous to condemn me for my current situation. But my church's response has been to look closer at what the Bible says about it. When you find some Brothers in Christ to fellowship with, ones who pay just as much attention to the compassion and mercy of Christ as the holiness, it will be a soothing balm for your soul.
I too went through a very surprisingly deep depression after leaving a new church plant after a year. All these years later we’ve finally found a biblical fellowship to attend, but I am very guarded to get involved. It’s like I just don’t have the energy or desire to do so. It feels “safer” for me to not get tied down in such a way that there would be expectations of me. I want to be in praise and worship with the larger body of Christ, but I’m not sure how much deeper I want to go. I feel safe with Jesus and my husband.
I came out of a church which was embracing Bethel and Hillsong teachings, gimmicks, structure of services and atmosphere. The last straw was the pastor saying that the Bible was about us and that Todd Bentley was a sound preacher. 😵💫 After a year, I found a small biblical Baptist church with expository preaching and a dam of feelings broke in my heart. I realized that I was a part of a church that was spiritually abusive and I was a part of a cult of personality. As I looked back, I realized I was a part of something really bad because I had found a real church. The place I was at was not a real church. It took years to heal.
So glad you got out. God bless you.
What year did they mention Todd Bentley ?
@@Jay-zx5hx 2016
I would add a word of caution. I was in a "biblical" Baptist church for decades. Be very careful if your type of Baptist church (there are dozens of types) teaches "legalism". Elevating tradition over Bible truth. Including, but not limited to Bible version (kjv only) worship music, women in pants, and the list goes on and on. Error, is always error, rather it comes from Bethel or a Baptist Church. It's about control, just Bethel does it one way and the "Independent Fundamental Baptist" do it another way. True faith has always been about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not a set of "rules" set up outside of scriptural mandates. I pray your Baptist Church is balanced and biblically sound.
@@Jay-zx5hx 2016. Why do you ask?
I think what he speaks about is so important. I joined a church at 21- that was a mess.
I was so confused- but just wanted to get close to Jesus- and not play people games.
It took me a while to figure out that many of the people in leadership had mental health issues that were not dealt with as well as childhood wounds not healed. Boundaries were awful.
I eventually joined CR at another church and got myself straightened out and worked on my own issues. It was hard work- and required some mature mentors who I am so grateful for. I would have been great to have a supernatural healing - but no, it was time, a process and hard work- trusting God to help me through it .
I remember being wounded by all the stuff going on and can relate to my own issues fueling my need to people please and I didn’t know healthy ways to protect myself, or deal with people.
I think so many church leaders are unhealthy individuals that use human manipulation. If the leadership is off the whole church is.
I am glad I had those experiences though, because God taught me so much about what not to be.
We’re all broken and unhealthy people and Christians have mental health issues as well.
The difference is that Christians have the Holy Spirit within them leading them and convicting them when they do wrong, and we are fully capable of doing wrong.
There is repentance and forgiveness from God and those who were wronged by them must forgive as well.
We all must daily fight against our flesh and our fallen bodies that have yet to be perfected.
@@Marlaina - And how do we "fight against our flesh"? There is this paradox of how Christians can be ever so blind to the Holy Spirit's counsel and conviction, THOUGH they believe they are filled and walking in the Spirit. Which is where pride of the Flesh is more present than previously thought, and unless leadership teaches a greater openness and humility as to one's resistance / arrogance / fear of rejection / narcissim, etc., then it can be VERY easy to NOT heed the Holy Spirit's guidance. In my intensive experience with some well-known Charismatic ministries the narcissism in leadership mixed with twisted scriptural interpretations of "authority" and "submission" led to an all-too-common act of denying one's errors / sins. Furthermore, these unhealthy examples of leadership furthered a patronizing adult-child hierarchy among adults! Not talking actual children here, but a childish dependency upon "shepherds".
P.S. - Unfortunately, I had too many bad experiences with Charismatic leaders/pastors who were anti-intellectual / anti-education. Anything can go too far, including being rational and thinking critically, but to be so judgmental about such pursuits is patently foolish. Then we wonder how so many un-educated teachers and preachers can get Scriptures wrong, or basically be false teachers. Well, the charlatans take advantage of their ignorant communities to exploit them of their autonomy and $$$.
Thank you gentlemen. I too, used to feel offended when I listened to people like yourselves, Chris Rosebrough, Justin Peters etc..
but gradually I realised that this was the truth and I was in error. Keep doing what you are doing guys!
Julie, you might want to check on “An Idiot With A Bible”. Donnie Lamon is a really great teacher also. Blessings.
@@louettesommers8594 thank you Louette x
offense to the truth always comes first...then you get free...glad you are out of that! I was in this kind of junk/charismania for over 26 years...glad the Lord graciously, however difficult at the time...REMOVED me and my hubs. So very grateful.
@@lilpoohbear653 thank you! You're right!
I am so grateful for this discussion. I was saved in a NAR church in the 80's before NAR was on the radar, or titled. This video was extremely therapeutic for me because I could not explain my experience there. I received so many wonderful things in those days, yes we had "holy laughter" and all kinds of manifestations of "the Spirit". I withdrew from basic bible churches because I felt that this new movement was the new thing God was doing on the earth. 7 mountain mandate was taught and I even sent my daughter to the church's school "Dominion". I honestly know that the Spirit of God was really moving in me, and others, it was a powerful time. However, things began to trouble me and I had a lot of questions but not the words for those questions really, like something was wrong but I couldn't put my finger on it. I now see the fatal flaw of following the "Spirit" absent from the foundation of God's word, and slipping into the flesh of emotion. There's something strange I can't explain how what feels like the move of the Spirit can be manipulated by _____ I am not sure, the enemy, the flesh, both? It all made sense until it didn't. I still cannot express fully the contradictions I feel. I cannot say that God was not in it, it's like it was a gift given, but man corrupted it by elevating above the word into a special understanding only "some" could understand. It began to feel elitist actually looking back. I'm grateful to be in a solid bible teaching church now. We live one day at a time, I need to keep focused on how to walk out my salvation TODAY with scripture, not some far off intangible hope of my importance of a dominion on this earth.
Was this church in Kansas City??
This was such a good interview. Mark was humble and honest and incredibly interesting. Thank you so much, Steve, for having him on.
This guy, God bless him.
He said he hasn't left because there's people he really loves there. And I get it I really do.
Those are the exact words that we used for years before we really really really figured out we had to go. Now I wish we had a decade earlier.
I have many, many friends that attend Bethel as well... I get where he's coming from...
@@bradjohnson4 I can understand that feeling, but it is best to go to a church that teaches the Word.He can help them better by learning and sharing with them, and showing them that there are loving and good churches outside of Bethel. I am praying for this man and his family. He was brave to do this interview.
@@hisservants8003 Thank you for your opinion, but I'm sure he not only knows what he's doing, but also knows the best way to reach the LOST at Bethel, than you do, or even myself, and I live in REdding also getting fed spiritually in the proper theology, if you just listen to him...
The real Holy Spirit has a way of knowing exactly how to let His People know - “it’s time- GO NOW! GET OUT!”
Experienced this myself- you don’t know, you pray, you fast, you read the WORD..and still not sure...
And then a still small but powerful Voice speaks and you can not deny it!
I’ll look at it much like I would if he were a part of the Catholic Church. It is not impossible to be saved in a Catholic Church just very very improbable. But there is no way a true Christian will be able to stay in a Catholic church. I do not think that the Holy Spirit would be silent and not convict you about being in an apostate church.
Thank you for your dedication to this issue, Steve. And admiration for Paulette’s support in building your channel and audience. Appreciation for your guest also. I still deal with the fallout from similar experiences from many years ago. God is good and so faithful to those who earnestly seek Him
Definitely needs a part 2. There is so much more to talk about! Great interview! Thanks for your courage. It’s hard speaking out against cults because they discredit you so much and attack with venom!
Exactly. Wish I'd heard questions on the Glory Clouds...
I am not a Christian but was born and raised in Shasta County, and the most alarming thing to many of us, is Bethel openly practicing the '"Seven Mountains Mandate" and our local politicians being to weak or corrupt to do anything about it. This church is literally taking over this community, much like Scientology has done to Clearwater Florida. Many of us in Shasta County, would love to see this cult lose it's nonprofit status over their blatant disregard for the Johnson Amendment. "Churches" such as this need to be taxed!
I think we are going to see quite a bit get exposed. With the successful recall of one of the county supervisors and the You Tube channel Red, White and Blueprint, a lot of corruption here in Shasta County is going to see the light of day. We might be surprised at just who is involved.
@@mmpapabear5150 , We can only hope! Corruption and cronyism run deep in our county and it definitely needs to be exposed.
Thanks for sharing this.
@@jeffreyp1855 you should obey the gospel before its too late.
@@kevinevans8892 , I was a Christian for 30 years, born and raised into a local United Pentecostal cult and later, Baptist and a little Assemblies of God. You do not know my life or my story, Kevin and have absolutely no right to make such a childish statement with veiled threats such as you have made. If you feel the urge to win souls for your brand of Jesus, you may want to consider expending more energy than it takes to sit on your butt at your keyboard, and actually go out and witness to people in person. With your obvious lack of tact and diplomacy, I doubt you will meet with much success.
I was in a Jesus people cult with very wrong doctrine, yet God still healed and provided for us all the time. However, when tragedies struck out faith was shaken and we had to realize we were subject to the harsh realities of this world just like everyone else. That made me look at our beliefs and question the dictator/ leader. And we left!
Promises of healing that never came have hurt my family. Where is the simple and pure Gospel of Jesus Christ? We did not attend Bethel, but went to churches connected to it. Thank you for sharing the truth about doctrine which has strayed from biblical truths and is man-centered. I love Jesus and want people to be saved through Him, and this false stuff does great harm in confusing everyone.
czcams.com/video/soFFhiYZY-E/video.html
All this guys firefighter analogy’s are spot on. Everytime he says a new analogy it gets deeper and deeper, pertaining to the subject deeper on a spiritual level
Amazing when one reads the Bible with the Holy Spirit and gets away from man's interpretations. Makes these churches very easy to discern. Thank you for a great interview. Great job!!
Sometimes the only way to get people to leave a false church is for one person to lead the way. If you’re sitting in a church hearing false doctrine every Sunday, you are missing out on hearing the gospel.
Exactly, that’s happening to me where I currently am right now
Exactly, that’s happening to me where I currently am right now
Praying for this gentleman and his wife. I hope they leave soon and find solid teaching. He can still reach out to his friends and show them that there are solid, loving churches they can join.
This was an excellent interview. When it got to the bit when Bill Johnson parachuted in his Weaverville buddy, not a Bethel member, I thought this is only going to go one way, and it did. I've seen this covert takeover happen in the secular world, as well as in the ministry we served in ten years ago. A headstrong leader bringing in personal friends, shutting down debate and talking a lot about "honor". It is all very dishonorable in fact. The firefighter analogy is very apt. The inner workings of these powerful and influential churches should be exposed when there is a pattern of dishonesty and hypocrisy. Looking forward to the next interview.
Happens a lot in companies and businesses. It never ends well. And when I see a takeover happen I instantly look for another job.
Bill Johnson came to our church in Onalaska, Wisconsin. Members of Bethel taught Sozo. This was about 2010 or earlier. I hear you loud and clear. I'm back in a Biblical-sound church in another state.
I went to a Sozo conference training but the man lady didnt show only her counterpart which I really questioned, so disappointed. Then at the end they had us all walk through their "fire tunnel" (all the people there) and then we had our own "sozo" session at the end. I was messed up for a long time! O Lord forgive me!!
Great interview. Sadly it seems that so many churches nowadays have a board made up of "yes" men. The pastor is never challenged or held accountable.
The Passion mis-translation, yes! Mike Winger did 6 indepth interviews and dissections on how dangerous it is.
God bless this lovely Fire Fighter. Brave guy. I hope he keeps safe from backlash.
Hey Steve,
Thank you for this episode.
You and Mark just described my former church, when a minister was accepted to the role of Rector. Oh gosh, your conversation was EXACTLY what happened. His track record was flawed right from the get-go, but he was hired anyway! 5 years later and a trail of wreckage to boot, he left and now our retired men are trying to pick up the pieces as they wait for a new Rector. I'm shaking my head incredulously!
Bless you heaps.
I’m glad you brought up the idea of “honor”. My sister is a big bethel fan and she says that frequently - that we need to have a culture of honor. I wasn’t sure where that came from and what was meant by that.
It’s culty.
It’s just another subtle manipulative play on words. My old church used to say this too. I ‘dishonoured’ them because I questioned them…… oh well. Wiped my feet and kept on walking. Unfortunately I can not find any sound churches in my area.
Yes over emphasized there and a very toxic teaching!
I love this man. I’m SO GRATEFUL he’s speaking out. Bethel has influenced very good, earnest Christians in my life. This is valuable.
This was so good and what I need for some close loved ones caught up in Bethel. My ex firefighter husband was agreeing and nodding at all the fire fighting analogies too....so true for the church too. Thanks again for all you do for Truth!!
Please tell your husband “Thanks” from a brother firefighter
Thank you for this episode. It meant a lot to me and my wife. It sounded you were discussing the very church we came out of a few months ago. Same same same stuff...! Thanks. Now we know we were not delusional when we thought there were really somethings going on that were really off.
This was a really great authentic, and real interview! I appreciate hearing about his boots on the ground experiences there. And I would love to see more in another video! 🙏🏽♥️🙏🏽
As someone who attended the Airport Fellowship church .. during the ‘90’s and Catch the Fire ( what it is now known as) .. back then I wasn’t sure what was going on. I just saw crowds of people all seemingly feeling the Holy Spirit .. coming out of a Roman Catholic background it was more than shocking .. I gravitated to it at the time bc I was crying out for God in a very dark period of my life.. looking back it did serve me but I was also not as theologically learned as I am now 20 years later… I always like to hear other peoples opinions on the Toronto Blessing .. thank you for this video ❤️❤️❤️
Long for truth with Danny and Robin Long do some great work about Toronto blessing.
I also get you when you go from legalism to hyper grace. Ex Seventh Day Adventist here lol
Mandy which Catch the fire church did you go to? I went to one in NC and it was disturbing and weird. The lead pastors abandoned it too. Duncan Smith and Carlos Rodriguez abandoned the cult after creating it.
@@Ravel1299 I went to the one here in Toronto where I believe it started . It was originally Airport Fellowship Church ( bc it is on Airport Rd) and became Catch the Fire. It drew big crowds back in the ‘90’s. I was a teenager and there were hundreds and hundreds of teenagers attending .. to us it was this new Spirit filled experience where God was moving… at the time I felt really excited about being there I had just lost my mom to cancer I was hurting I felt far from God and this experience ( in my mind) was God reaching out to me to draw me back. Looking back 20 years later I see how weird and ungodly it really was. It was a bunch of hyped up charismatics acting strange in the Name of the Lord … it was not Biblical .
@@Pierpon I totally agree!! I visited that church too in Toronto on a "missions trip". I am glad to still be in the Lord, praise God you and I have been delivered from the lies and manipulation
Wasn't it actually called The Airport Vineyard? Anyway, I visited in April 1995 as a teenager during a youth event called "Fresh Wind." Even to this day, I still think of it as one of the best experiences of my life.
A few things came to mind as he spoke : people in very traumatic , or highly stressful situations are more vulnerable and easily deceived to the signs and wonders gospel due to an intense need to escape or be delivered out of the situation. What you said about the building program is a symptom in all denominations over the last 30 years . It literally became a fad to build these big mega churches. Talking about being glad people left the church , it made me think of the times I visited these type of churches how they loved to refer to those who question or doubt their theology as ” religious ” and really made that word a slur and at all costs you better not question , lest you become one with a ” spirit of religion” . I always left those churches troubled in my spirit even though i was truly seeking a closer relationship with my Lord .
Mark, thank you!!! I had the privilege of getting to know Mark and his family for four years while I lived in Redding and I am so thankful I did. The Mark you see in this conversation is exactly who he is.
More important, I am eagerly waiting part two of this conversation. If it already is out there, please direct me to it. Thank you again!!!!
Great interview, American Gospel opened my eyes and confirmed my feelings about the church I was attending. So thankful for your channel.
Thanks for uploading this conversation. These things need to be said.
When this happened at our church, I was always the person left standing amidst others who had fallen out. It made me feel awful. I thought something was wrong with me, even doubted my salvation.
Your content on Bethel is always my favorite. When he said “Fire Tornado” I immediately laughed and said out loud, quoting from one of your other bethel videos “A freak of nature, the Firenado” lol great video as always! Again, LOVE the bethel content!! 👍
😂 I can't believe ppl fall for this crap. Have they never cracked open a Bible? I don't understand.
I moved to Redding, to attend Bethel in April 2014. I was there for 7 years. The crazy at Bethel only got worse over the years. I'd love to hear Marks thoughts on the whole trying to raise Kalley Heiligenthal's (worship leader) daughter from the dead, and the worship vigils that were held every night for at least a week. And also angel cards AKA "Christian" tarot cards.
At least they dare to believe, no disgrace in putting your faith to where the rubber meets the road! That’s courage! Why would you even cited, taunting the parents for their faith. That is heartless!
@@7pinky791 Who/what do they have faith in is the question. At Bethel it's ALL about them, about them trying to get God to do what they want Him to do. Twisting the Bible so it says what they want it to say. It's not about obeying Scripture, listening to Him, or abiding in Him.
@@reneerosie You tell me, you were there for 7 years!
@@reneerosie Hmmm! So for 7 long years, you were 'trying' to get God to do what you want Him to do. 'Twisting' the Bible so it says what you want it to say. It's not about obeying Scripture, listening to Him, or abiding in Him?
@@7pinky791 Obviously I'm talking about the leadership. After staying for the first couple of 'sermons' I only ever stayed for worship as their teaching, and interpretation of the Bible is way off. I was in Redding for 7 years. I didn't go to Bethel for 7 years. I only attended Bethel for about a year but I knew people who went there so I knew how much worse it got over the years. You clearly just want an argument.
Yes, after coming out of this evil I found it helpful to write about it and talk it all through.
Thanks Steve and Mark for a very insightful video on the errors and leadership at the apostate church Bethel I pray for Mark and others who have been connected with Bethel that more will turn and face the cross of Christ and not the ramblings of Bill Johnson and Chris Vallotton
"..that more will turn and face the cross of Christ and not the ramblings of Bill Johnson and Chris Vallotton"
Love that expression...
I think Derek Prince's little booklett Protection from Deception is a timely read. Especially as he was someone who was on stage with Branham and has gone public in that booklett to say that he believe he moved in the demonic...
Bill Johnson started off by reading Branham's books, it says in the video, can you believe it....
Have you ever seen Kathryn Kuhlman on video. She appears to be demon possessed: beyond strange!
I can relate. I was pretty involved in the Charismatic Movement for nine years (1974-83) and early on I would raise my hands until it hurt during the services just to impress the pastor. And worst of all, I created a little phrase in fake tongues that I would use when standing shoulder-to-shoulder with other charismatics so they would think I had the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is frightening how easily I fell into the deceptions of that movement. After 48 years as a disciple of Christ, I still have to be on my toes with my nose in the word to catch myself. Thanks for the great info.
why try to impress the Pastor? Don't you think you were a young babe in Christ so felt obligated to things you didn't have to do?
@@paulc7190 Yes, of course.
It's also frightening how easy it is to fool those around you because you all have such poor discernment.
😂 You've got to be joking.
This was such a great interview!! Thank you both for this conversation, I hope there is a part 2!
Great interview! Looking forward to Part 2!❤️
At the very hardest times in my life I also have written down the things most perplexing and troubling, things which you can't vocalize in a cogent conversation with another person. Writing in a chronological fashion allows you to make sense of things and sort them out and also edit by adding details as needed... It really does help, the therapuetic value is huge...
The chant of greed...that is a classic. You are spot on. 100% correct
What is meant by the chant if greed?
Great job of just letting him talk, Steve. Wonderful interview!
This is great! I've seen videos you've done exposing Bethel before. But an interview with someone who has been on their staff giving insight is a plus! I got caught up in their deception a decade ago. One year later, I traveled there for an event and had a bad experience (which I thought was great then). I really had to rely on God to get me through it as I battled a lot of nightmares after I returned home. As I time went on, I eventually repented, my attitude towards Bethel changed and I turned to the likes of John MacArthur, Justin Peters, Chris Rosebrough, yours, and others that are Biblically sound.
czcams.com/video/soFFhiYZY-E/video.html
..unfortunately i wouldnt say that MacArthur is biblically sound. The gifts are definitely for today but the likes of Bethel and others go beyond scripture to get more power.... in their grave soaking and physics of heaven....
Furthermore the calvanistic theology they are into contradicts how the very first church fathers interpretated scripture. David Bercot specialises in this, he has a dictionary and has written books... this is his video on what did the ealry church fathers believe about salvation
czcams.com/video/JzqDV91AFPo/video.html
Leighton Flowers - Did the early church fathers teach, saved by faith alone
czcams.com/video/YTSEh1o8HdE/video.html
Going back to dominion theology and the NAR, Clifford HIll in the UK refused to write the forward to the Kansas City Prophets book because he discerned an evil spirit operating among them.. He wrote a book in the 1990's re the history of this entitled Blessing the church, you can get it here:
prophecytoday.uk/general/item/877-blessing-the-church-archive.html
Clifford Hill's church was the livest and most balanced church Ive attended as a new christian in the early 1980's. Recently (2019) Clifford Hill and David Hathaway organised prayer days in the UK. Hill was unhappy with the NAR lot who were invited without his knowledge. This was his resulting article:
prophecytoday.uk/comment/church-issues/item/1351-the-new-apostolic-reformation-an-overview.html
John MacArthur is not biblically sound. He waffles back and forth. His theology has been exposed. He is arrogant and wrote his own Bible. His lead male staff person has been accused of harassment by several women.
Thank you both for such a great interview. These videos are extremely helpful. God bless!
Thanks for this interview Steve, this was really helpful. Thanks Dave for being willing to talk about these things, I’m sure it’s not easy.
So glad you did this. Hoping there is a part 2 and/or more of these. Adam Mack's pinned comment is incredible; I'm glad he wrote it. I bet a lot of the people at Bethel will need therapy afterwards for the various abuses they've experienced (spiritual, emotional, psychological, verbal etc). I pray Bethel is brought down. Thanks for your video. ♥ from Canada.
Thanks so much to both of you. Please do another segment soon.
Wow thank you for this interview! Very informative!
So many questions for this gentlemen on bethel and Kris vallaton. U need to do a part 2 questions answers kinda thing. Thanks man
Please keep this conversation going. Well done, Steve.
♡Great interview/discussion.
Praying for both of you and the people at bethel.♡
Thank you both, this is more than just informational, but very helpful and true as well. God bless you both too.
GREAT interview! Well done! Thank you for bringing information in a solid and dignified manner.
This is great work! I came out of all this crap a few years back in MD & PA and it’s a lot of the same stuff. It’s good to hear it come from a man who was in the center of where all of it got started. Great work sir!
It's not just Bethel, many of us have experienced similar excesses in the wider 'neo- pentecostal movement' over the past fifty years. Bethel is just a distillation of these errors which seem to have accompanied the pentecostal movement historically.
Amen! Coming from a Catholic background, I can relate 110%
Thanks for doing this video Steve. I can totally relate. I too had served in leadership as an "elder." I took the role as the "skeptic" and whenever I questioned something, I was basically shut down as if any decisions that were brought before the leadership had already been decided by the Sr. Pastor and his son-in-law (who is now the lead pastor). Basically they went around the table and asked what we thought, but knowing the decision was already made behind closed doors, our thoughts and opinions were just a matter fo formality to say we were presented the information. No formal votes were ever taken, just a consensus from the members. These were clear warnng signs as to where the church was going. More and more influencers like Chuck Sheets, Tood White and TD Jakes were finding their way into the church doctrine and liturgy. It took me a few years to realize this was no longer a fit for me, and I left. I still love the people, just don't agree with the direction and method.
Thank you Sir for being the skeptic. Srsly. I like to refer to it as the “gift of suspicion “
Tom - do you mean Dutch Sheets?
@@dawnzimmerman6818 Oops! Yes Dutch not Chuck. Thanks!
good because they are heretics...you can still love people and tell the truth...TRUTH
Thank you for this conversation - full length and unedited means the full picture and it's so helpful.
This was a great interview. I lived in California and wanted to go to Bethel church untill I watched both American Gospel DVD's. I also recommend Spencer Smith on CZcams.
Spencer is another level. He doesn't hold back in telling the truth!
The “Basta” and the “liftink” hit my funnybone every time!
BASTA!!!!!!!👨🏼🚒🔥
This video was a homerun!
Thank you for your hard work, Steven!
Loved the interview
Thank you for sharing. I needed to hear this.
Great illustration about having to tear into a wall and break some things to find the fire, the source before everything burns down. Appreciate the interview, men, thank you!
Great Job Kozar. Learned and also was encouraged by this video. Thank you and God bless you. Bro John
Hey Brother John! Enjoy your videos!
Steve, I must say that I love your spirit. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You don't demean other people's experiences. I appreciate that very much. Your demeanor is one of humility. God bless your ministry as you move forward.
Dear Sharon. I agree with you 100%. God bless you. 🙏
Thank you, Gentlemen!! The Lord graciously kept me from the WoF/NAR and post-modern influences (even through all my false conversions), so I can't even pretend to relate to any of this. Nevertheless, I'm grateful for His saving grace in the lives of those who have gone through these experiences. May God continue to bless you.
I hope this is the direction your channel is going. I really like the long interview convo format.
Thank you so much for sharing
I know, from experience , it’s not easy when your eyes are being opened to the truth and you realise the deception you were actually under. It’s mind blowing.
I highly recommend Pastor Billy Crone’s Charismatic Chaos series.
A must watch for every believer.
It will fully open your eyes and equip you for never coming under deception again.
Bless you both and thank you again 🙏🏼
Hopeful to see more of Mark
Thank you so much. We have changed church and thank you we are humbled and so grateful for Gods mercy in helping us get out of this ‘system’ of church
Steve I’m 23 minutes in and this is a good video. Anyone who doesn’t like it needs to wake up, grow up, or just go away. Keep up your good work!
Yes if someone doesn't agree they need to ... fill in the blank. Sounds like a well balanced approach. I know the ins and outs of bethel type theology. I can debate every point and disagree with some of both bethel and this channels theology. However I am not prideful nor arrogant enough to say my way is 100 right and others are wrong. Listening to people you don't agree with is part of authentic growth.
I have a great dislike for Bethal. Our church and pastors were heavily influenced by Bill. He came to our little church in Fairfield ca years ago. After that our church turned into a signs /wonders/ prosperity/ name and claim it church. Our youth constantly went to Redding for youth camp and conventions. So I have a lot experience will the craziness of bethal influence. We left that church years ago and found a little church. But you can’t get away from the influence of bethal or churches like them. Their teachings are everywhere. But thank God for the pandemic. The church closed down for a bit so that meant we stayed home. And because of that I found channels like this and the American gospel. My eyes were open to what I knew was wrong but couldn’t say it. My head was full of the lies that I couldn’t speak out what was going wrong.
czcams.com/video/soFFhiYZY-E/video.html
Well done and 100% on point! Thanks for posting the video!
Thank you so much gentlemen. A really excellent interview.
czcams.com/video/soFFhiYZY-E/video.html
Thank you both so much.
Excellent! I so enjoyed this video.
This was really interesting thank you. Good interview.
Fascinating!
Yes, part 2, please 🤲
czcams.com/video/soFFhiYZY-E/video.html
I had a hard time here in Oregon with all of the kids that would go to BSSM and come back very messed up. The kids couldn't stand scripture or sound doctrine and instead were almost a cult like following of spiritual experiences. I finally ended up in a heated discussion with one of their young "leaders" who had graduated from BSSM. He told me a story to prove how loving and accepting Bethel was, he explained that they had a Warlock come to their morning prayer meeting for one year, and after a year he told them he was a warlock and was in the occult. Then the young man told me proudly that this is the kind of love they have with their body of "believers."
I then told him that I had just had one question to ask him. I asked him how a warlock who worships the devil came to one of the most well known schools of prophecy in the United States, led by one of the most well known prophetic teachers in the United States and was full of training "prophets" who claim to have strong prophetic discernment...and for one year praying next to the young man nobody discerned him to be a warlock who worships the devil?
The conversation pretty much ended there.
Let me put this question out there for people's thoughts. Bill Johnson has said that Jesus died for us so that all of our sickness and disease WILL be healed and that it's GUARANTEED in the atonement. He's also said that he personally "refuses to allow / create a theology that allows for sickness". So - his wife has another bout of cancer. If she doesn't survive this, and dies of this cancer, what does this mean according to Bill Johnson's logic / theology? For me - if he really believes that ALL of our sickness and disease is guaranteed in the atonement, what does that mean for people who claim to be 'saved' but then die of something of cancer? For me personally (using Bill's theology) if someone does die of a disease, surely that means that they are NOT saved?! Because if they were truly saved - then they would have been GUARANTEED their healing?! Can people see this if we are applying Bill's logic here?! If his own wife - Beni Johnson - dies of cancer, yet her own husband says that her cancer is guaranteed to be healed, but then it doesn't happen, surely that means she doesn't know God!! That she's not saved!! The implications for Bill Johnson / Bethel in general, is just huge. This logic / theology is just so dangerous, and I cannot believe that people are not going after him more on this, especially with someone so close to him...
You already answered your own question. And yes, it's a very dangerous theology!
Good question.
His dad also died of cancer...But Bethel refused to allow my mom to use the church to put on a service for my sister after she passed with cancer. We were told that they did not want that looming over the church. Death is apart of life, to die and be with God is where we are whole and healed. Prosperity gospel is garbage and lies!
@@EJ-os6bw so sorry to hear that… but at the same time, I’m glad that you’ve managed to see through what bethel stands for.
@Reformian, as a new believer many years ago I’d watch Gloria Copland’s healing schools. Then hearing about her current illness where they’re requesting prayer, I’ve thought how sad that Gloria has had a medical condition for years, yet they’ve kept it hidden because it doesn’t line up with their teachings. Their teachings brought a lot of unnecessary pain in my life. Not to mention the number of believers that would question why I wasn’t healed. The Lord has healed me of many things, but a back issue I was born with is still painful. I trust the Lord to be everything I need. Although some might say I don’t trust Him enough, I have peace.
I really appreciate you, Steve Kozar. You are so kind. Thank you.
Thanks for being so honest about what you lived and your motives and personal feelings. All this charismatic stuff has caused us such pain and confusion. I often felt blackmailed by those who claimed it was of the Holy Spirit and if you challenged whatever was weird, you were automatically a blasphemer etc. I have found peace as I have returned to a bible teaching church and reading the Word of God every day.
So many need to hear these conversations. So many people deluded by this menace in the “Church”. I have had 1 st hand experience with how the music of Bethel becomes a hill to die on for those who have fallen for the bait n switch.
Music is very powerful for people like me, with a certain type of emotional nature. It becomes a substitute Holy Spirit all too easily. All you have to do is lose yourself in your favorite songs. I live here in the home of CCM, where there are plenty of underpaid musicians, willing to add a Sunday gig, and these people manufacturing what some people think is the filling of the Holy Spirit, don't even believe in Jesus. They are just doing it for money, so there's nothing of the Holy Spirit involved in the creation of those songs. At most, the words may make use of bible language and maybe even a few verses. There may be believers in some of it, but not many
I overheard a young man talking about his job in a nearby, upper-class, bedroom community, about how he goes out there for the Sunday morning sessions, then hangs around for evening church, socializing in coffee bars and restaurants until it is time. It was his special day in Franklin. He was quick to assure his pals that he didn't believe.
I visited a Charismatic church I had been involved with years before. Since I had attended, the expensive, new megachurch building had been added to the little chapel, with all the trimmings: escalators, light and sound box; mega screen; stage band. The congregation apparently felt their response to k-love style music was being filled with the Holy Spirit, until finally someone started the football stadium "wave". But that,see, is not really a move of the Holy Spirit. It is group think, not the Holy Spirit at all. Probably the person who started it thought that because it was a feel-good thing for him, it was a move of the Spirit, the church was prosperous, and probably a lot of those people had been to the games of our new NFL team, so the stadium wave was equated with a move of the Holy Spirit. The problem was not that it was a wave, but that they didn't care to differentiate between the wave, group think, and a true move of the Holy Spirit.
KV is strange indeed, and the confirmation keeps growing!! May God have mercy on us as we walk this walk!!
I live in NorCal so thank you for being a firefighter for our beautiful state! Much respect to you! 🙏
Thank you Kelsey
I am a data specialist for a school district and recently left a church I had been attending that has become very charismatic. The big thing for me was I pointed out that if the Bethel theology is correct the data would be overwhelming. The response was there are healings. I respond you are not counting misses (all those not healed) checking on other variables (medical care) and quality of evidence (anecdotes don’t mean much) I then used the example of staff members, elders, and others considered being very spiritual never being healed of visible ailments (crippled, disabled from birth, hearing aides, etc.) Studies are sparse but every one I have found has not found any spiritual group having better outcomes than any other and intercession does no better than placebo.
There is a certain level of comfort that the Kozar family provides that allows for this kind of "real talk" ..that place of comfort is only found within The Holy Body of Christ Jesus. We are grateful To The Most High God in Heaven for you both ❤
Thank GOD for your ministry to expose the DARKNESS as we are experiencing the End Times.
Thank you, Mr. Kozar and Mr. Mack
Steve you are the man!! God bless!
Truth be told.
Yes and Amen.
Shalom🕊🔥