TUN: The Great Infinity Engine Do-Over
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- I'm back, wahoo. Maybe even another video'll be up before December's done - if not then, early January. I know how much you all love indefinite waits.
Sources:
Beatles arrive at the airport: • Funny Beatles Fan Vide...
Wasteland 2 character creation (DonkeyWorldLOL): • Wasteland 2 Best Party...
Wasteland 2 Let's Play footage (Blitzkriegsler): • Welcome to the Wastela...
Pillars of Eternity gameplay (Jester814): • Pillars of Eternity - ...
Fighter/Mage character sheet (BG2): sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...
Baldur's Gate map: cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/u...
Baldur's Gate umber hulks (squee913): • Let's Play Baldur's Ga...
BG2 items: mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate2/weap...
Camembert: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
Scale pic: images.kovels.com/price_guide/...
Dragonfall Let's Play footage (TheOneTrueRenairen): • Let's Play Shadowrun: ...
Farmville footage (Len Farneth): • Farmville 2 Getting 10...
Tides of Numenara footage (inXile's channel): • Torment: Tides of Nume...
BG2 spellbook: cdn.vanillaforums.com/baldursg...
Pillars spellbook: i.stack.imgur.com/mxsB8.jpg
Pillars of Eternity Let's Play (Dungeons & Desktops): • Let's Play Pillars of ...
Linear fighter, quadratic wizard graph (The Evil GM): theevilgm.files.wordpress.com...
Figurines (Borderlands Games): www.borderlandsgames.com/wp-co...
Vancian Magic thread (Wizards community forum): community.wizards.com/content/...
No Way Out album cover: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
Razor Scooter: images.amazon.com/images/G/01/...
The Rachel: static.parade.com/wp-content/u...
Arcanum Let's Play (Anatoray Lizard): • Let's Play - Arcanum -...
Fallout 2 Let's Play (MetalCanyon): • Let's Play Fallout 2 (...
Pillars enchanting UI: i.imgur.com/asCXVKQ.jpg
Wargame table picture: i.nextmedia.com.au/Utils/Image...
Another: s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/...
Camp Navarro low INT: • A trip to Navarro with...
Quake II multiplayer: • Quake II - Thresh on Q...
Grim Fandango LP: • Grim Fandango Remaster...
Music:
Puff Daddy/Notorious BIG: Victory (instrumental)
Pillars of Eternity Soundtrack: Defiance Bay
Wasteland 2 Soundtrack: Tribal Wasteland
Puffy Daddy: I'll Be Missing You (instrumental) - Krátké a kreslené filmy
𝐄𝐓𝐀 𝐅𝐎𝐑 𝐍𝐄𝐗𝐓 𝐕𝐈𝐃𝐄𝐎: 𝐉𝐔𝐍𝐄 𝟐𝟎𝟏𝟕
+Ryan Becker 2077
+Ryan Becker "Maybe even another video'll be up before December's done"
Ah, shit, who am I kidding, it's probably December of 2024.
+Copperbeard Yeah, but it'll be some monstrous bitch-fest of a video that will be utterly fantastic and make me think about gaming in a way that I never have before. Again!
+lusteraliaszero I understood that reference
+Ryan Becker Joon.
Nicely done MrBTongue.
You deserve more subscribers. Love your work.
Hope to see more.
Haha one off my favourite YTers watching another one off my favourite YTers, nice.
Here because of your suggestion the other day on your stream. Thanks! I'm very much enjoying his videos. (And I thought you uploaded slow). But I definitely found another quality uploader! Now get back on the rising storm Bullshittery!
oh you sweet summer child
Clive the Rock smiles upon you from rock heaven
so nice to have someone smarter then me voice my opinions I've struggled to articulate
i smashed that like button before even playing the video
+Ciel That's a very unwise thing to do, I'm sure MrBtongue is very disappointed. :p
touch screen? oh... nvm :>
Feel like I'm watching this very late, but I can't agree with you more. Excellent video.
Some of the most fun I've had in RPGs has been finding ways to break them. Casting levitate on npcs in Morrowind and watch their AI struggle to understand what's happening to you gives you a power rush only a 15 year old boy could appreciate
+MrZurata Deep.
+MrZurata Hell, if there were more games like Wasteland 2 Director's Cut on PS3, I might consider getting a console
+MrZurata Next they'll put Final Fantasy XIII on iOS.
agree! then bethesda came over removed it from newer TES till Skyrim..
"...something that can only be expressed through tedious griping."
God I love when he talks dirty like that.
PLEASE NEVER LEAVE AGAIN IT WAS TERRIBLE
he left
PRAISE YOU FOR RETURNING TO US!!!!
+MrShoe Hi, cody.
+Destiny CoC Nice channel nerd
no, u
Brilliantly constructed and masterfully articulated. I've been a staunch advocate of "too much balance" for years. Now I'm not so sure. Thank you, MrBtongue.
Very interesting video! This helps me put into perspective a lot of my own thoughts on Mass Effect 1, and why I still hold such affection for it, even over the seemingly universally beloved second game. It's because of what you call Setting Supremacy. Many deride the combat in ME1 as being clumsy and unbalanced, and while I think that is true, I still love playing it, because it's a case where all of the mechanics fit with the lore.
Weapons don't have limited ammunition, but they do generate heat that must be carefully tracked and managed. It's best not to fire faster than the heat sync can discharge, but some tight situations will warrant pulling the trigger as fast as possible until it overheats (and hoping that a tough enemy goes down before that happens). Shields generated by armor take a while to recharge, but they are strong, and can take a fair amount of punishment before collapsing, facilitating some situations where you don't necessarily have to stay glued to cover if standing in the open would better serve, and the incoming fire doesn't overwhelm your systems. Health also does not regenerate on its own, but this too doesn't go down too fast. Biotics are generally overpowered, but this too fits the lore, considering their rarity and utility in military settings. Even though it may not be polished from a gameplay perspective, I still enjoy it because I feel like I am actually occupying this fantastical sci-fi world the game creates, in the sense that its new technology has changed the ways that battles are fought.
And then Mass Effect 2 comes along, and now shields can't take more than a light spattering before collapsing, but both they and health regenerate quickly. Cover is effective to stop most enemy abilities. The lore does somersaults to justify how every weapon now functionally regresses to using limited ammunition, and one must time reloads rather than manage heat buildup. Combat, tech, and biotic powers are now on equal fitting, but feel identical as a result. In short, now it's just a paint-by-numbers cover-based shooter copied and pasted over the world of Mass Effect. While it may be more fun to play (Mass Effect 3 has the most fun combat of them all, IMO), I always feel that it was a cave to the 'gamer' crowd at the expense of the Setting Supremacy of a good RPG.
I hate when games are so terrified of anything being 'unbalanced' that they won't let anything be /fun/
Take Bob, for example. For thirty-seven years he was untouchable. He kept his range and at range, none could touch him. Shortbows, longbows, crossbows, guns, even ballistae couldn't so much as knock a hair out of place! Eventually a crafty rogue got close and obtained the one valuable-looking bauble he had: a ring. Finding the thing rather plain, he decided to try it on and promptly discovered, thanks to Bob's friend arriving at this scene, the source of Bob's invulnerability: this legendary ring of protection! Over the decades the ring has changed hands many times and not one being bearing this ring has fallen to a ranged weapon of any description.
Anyway, you pick up this legendary/unique trinket in Act 2 or whatever and immediately pawn it because its tiny ranged defence bonus isn't worth replacing the rares you picked up hours ago.
Also please come back again, Mister Btongue.
And no fucking age of decadence in the video. the best of the resurgence, BY FAR.
Edit: oh yeah, and we missed you, and all that jazz.
+lusteraliaszero
In hindsight now that I've given the video a proper look, I guess Age of Decadence doesn't really apply to the things discussed in this video as it is perhaps the most B type of all b type games.
AoD, imo, deserves a standalone review.
Nicolay Ship I agree, but I somehow doubt it'll happen. It just seems terribly overlooked, so it's a shame it isn't mentioned in a video discussing the old isometric rpg style revival
+lusteraliaszero I played that game and didn't like it much. Maybe I should try it again.
+Kanaric Age of decadence is like Dark Souls in some way. With each try I like it more.
Too balance is never fun. It becomes bland and dull really quick. As long as something is not broken it’s alright that there may be power gaps, like a class may peak at a certain level, like melee are really powerful in the beginning while spellcaster comes in later, but when they do, they really do. Viability for me, is more important.
You can't just come back into my life like this, I've moved on
I learn something new and insightful with every one of your videos I watch, mrbtongue. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for making the time to bring us another video, your work is always entertaining. Very much looking forward to the next one.
Welcome back MrBtongue and thanks for this video - really captures that loss of magic from 98 to now.
Brilliant. Every one of your videos provides insight I hadn't even considered before.
10 months and you return with this wonderful video? I love this bastard.
Nice to see you back.
I've missed your TUNs.
I love you and will wait patiently and with great anticipation your next appearance in December 2016. I mean that sincerely, they're like an extremely occasional gift that appears unexpectedly.
Niiiice.
Found the TUN series last week. Watched it all in one go. Was sad to see it's apparently not being updated anymore... except now, it apparently is. Awesome! Keep 'em coming, please. :p
So this is what Christmas feels like.
Important notes have been taken. I appreciate your work.
HOLY CRAP CONTENT! I thought your grand work was lost to the pages of history. I am so glad to see another video. Keep up the great work!
This is very reflective with how spells are described in Baldur's Gate. It doesn't just explain its mechanic, it includes a description of how it would work in reality.
I like it when you end something with a sentence and repeat it as a title to the next part. Makes my night.
Finally. Been waiting for a new video for ages.
You came back, it really is a Christmas miracle. It's the perfect timing since I just started playing Pillars Of Eternity a couple days ago.
Always a delight to see one of your videos uploaded; I'm just one of those adoring fans, I guess. Keep it up if you can!
My day was bad and you made it much better, I am very grateful for that.
Youve put to words my very thoughts that i struggled to say for so long. thank you, im going to share this video a lot.
It's great to have a new video from you man. Happy holidays
Daaaamn.. am I glad to hear you ramble on again. .
Glad to see you're back
I can't watch this video yet, but I just wanted to say how glad I am that you're back
this is without a doubt one of the best if not the best channel on youtube
Love the use of arcanum
I will never not be way too excited every time I see a TUN video.
THE GREAT ENKINDLER HAS RETURNED.
I'm so happy that you're back.
Always glad to see you back ;) You definitely made my day. I am currently designing a pen and paper RPG, not something big, and these tips and tricks will definitely help ! I had already choose a more Setting Focus without really calling it that. I hope we'll see you soon !
I almost burst into tears when i heard him say tedious griping. It's what I've always wanted. I love you
wow, that comment against balance, is just something that i always felt with the new "infinity engine done new" games but i never could quite put my finger into it. You just expressed it perfectly. New games have way less variety in order to avoid breaking the game , and yes they are more balanced but less fun !
O.O OH MY...A NEW VIDEO WOOO! :D
And I'm so happy that you decided to do a video on the resurgence of CRPG's due to Kickstarter.
Glad to see you back :)
Finnaly back
The king is back!
I literally gasped out loud when I saw the e-mail notification of a new MrBtongue video.
"With every hit it has a 15% chance of draining 4 levels..."
...wut?
+WolfSyn It's overpowered as fuck and does exactly what it says: permanently drains 4 levels from an enemy (in addition to the other OP bonuses). (Un)fortunately is a very late game item
Happy to see you back. C:
As soon as I saw the screen "Part 1: Tedious Griping" I clicked that damn like button.
Welcome back.
And I had JUST about resigned myself to you having resigned from CZcams for realsies this time, and there you go giving me a thoughtful video and getting my hopes up that you'll make more videos yet again.
The biggest flaw of most accurate translation possible between old and modern style of Infinity engine games is the fact they take the engine as it was, but rarely expand upon it's themes. The biggest mistake is not noticing that games of that era look as they look, because at the time it was 'the best we had' The engine had it's limits, and it could emulate only so much.
What I mean by that? Well those games were supposed to be emulations of Pen and Paper RPGs... but they could not implement all of the mechanics.
And that's a problem, cause the isometric world becomes very sterile once you discover the most min-maxy way of tackling the encounters. It's just executing the same pattern over and over, but... there's no physicality about the world. You can't jump on the table and kick a goblet of wine in someone's face. You cant climb on a rafter and bypass a guard, or throw a fork from a nearby shelf to distract him. You don't have cover other then line-of-sight blockage. You can't just do something unorthodox with the world that could prove useful in an encounter. You can just use the given options and abilities, all with specific purpose, cooldown and trigger.
I love all the games listed here, but I damn hate this realization how much people are transfixed on copying Infinity to the letter, not improving on the formula where it lacked due to technical limits of the era.
***** Exactly, they did it at that time, but we're not in same time anymore. One such example of isometric game that captured the idea but innovated on physical connection between a character and the world was Divinity Original Sin, where the ideas of a player of doing something unorthodox played out accordingly and you had this elastic freedom of doing something else then just standard hotkey based encounter. As much as I loved Pillars of Eternity, every encounter played out exactly by the same routine after a while, the only actual value of the surrounding were the chokepoints. Other then that fighting in a deep dungeon underneath your keep and in some nobleman's mannor were exactly the same, the location played very little role and... well that was a bit sad, cause using things around you is a key feature of games those old school RPGs tried to imitate. And I hold no grudge against them, since that was what they could do in the 90's with limited capacities of the hardware and software... but by today's standards?
And if you're looking for something which captures that feel even better, btw. I couldn't recommend more a german game called Drakensang. Year ahead of DA, and it was pretty much twice complex in vein of old Pen and Paper systems.
+Yuri PRIME "You cant climb on a rafter and bypass a guard" Daggerfall
"You can't jump on the table and kick a goblet of wine in someone's face." Darklands allowed random shit like this.
"You don't have cover other then line-of-sight blockage." X-Com, needs to be in Shadowrun though.
"You can't just do something unorthodox with the world that could prove useful in an encounter" People do this kind of thing all the time trying to figure out how to break the game or min max. Like you could polymorph the boss into a orc or some shit.
All this shit is possible in the games. They have been in games they just all need to be put into a single game. The closest game to what you are talking about i've ever played was Darklands. It had a ridiculous amount of options, especially for it's time. Insane batshit things I would never have thought of doing almost as if it was made by the trolly "lets break the DM" DND player. All of this was done in that game in what you would call "dialogue". A background wallpaper of the location would come up, like you have on Pillars in some scenes, and you would pick choices on what to do and it was "roleplayed" out. If pillars was missing anything it was more uses of that game mechanic.
+Kanaric I should mention the bypass the guard and all of that. Darklands as well. You really could do anything in that game.
You could pray to a saint and walk on water like jesus making the entire city of Hamburg go nuts, it was a VERY low magic medieval europe world. Just arriving in port to Hamburg because you don't want to walk on the pier with the dirty peasants.
+Yuri PRIME +maffa +Kanaric I believe what you are chalking down to "The systems available" isn't quite the problem. Most of the time, the reason you cannot do everything you want to, jump up on a table, kick a goblet or sneak on a rafter, is because developing that level of detail would take an exponentially larger amount of development time, and longer development means more money. The studios that made these games are not triple A monsters with infinite pockets. They have budgets. So during this conversation I want you guys to recognize that not everything can be done, even with better technology, because it still takes man hours.
***** I entirely disagree. Even if its old that does not mean outdated. Take for instance the fallout low intelligence builds that were mentioned. The reason those existed was because the developers couldn't put in 3d models, realtime action or voice acting. So they spent their time on the writing and systems. Nowadays we can do 3d models and all that. But that does not mean we should. It should be a choice, because 3d models take time and money, real time action takes time and money. By choosing to make an infinity engine esque game, you are drawing from a wealth of game design knowledge, with the ability to develope it faster and better. Choosing to do turnbased combat and an isometric perspective gives them time to work on other things. Its a trade off not a down grade. Look at dwarf fortress. You can grab individual teeth on a person, tear them out, and then kill them by throwing their teeth in their eyes. But look at the graphics. Its ascii characters.
I may not be looking forward to being stressed, but I am intrigued by the idea of an interesting, and perhaps novel topic.
Thank you, by the way. This video has been interesting as always.
HE'S BACK. MOB ASSEMBLE!
Holy shit a new video! Sorry im just really excited to watch another video of you
Nice, love your gaming videos! keep em coming!
I never could put my finger on why my interest in Wasteland 2 and Pillars of Eternity kind of petered out several hours in, when I love the older isometrics. But I think you really hit the nail on the head there. Good insights.
Stuff I didn't think about but makes sense when I do. Keep it coming. In 1 year increments if you have to.
You're alive!!! Thank the gods!
Another Great Video! Personally I was never a fan of Infinity Engine games. I always have a lack of immersion at the extreme simulation and mechanical way it limits interaction with the world. But the discussion of design vs world is super relevant today in many other game genres and as a critic of the Infinity Engine and related games I love hearing people pick at it. So great!
About damn time.
As a video game developer, thank you. I recently discovered your videos and I enjoy the unique perspective you have. I may ask you questions in the future.
It's good to see you again Bobby the Tongue. Hope you're back for a while. The Shandification of Fallout has been sustaining me for ages.
welcome back!
Omg he's back. we have all missed you.
Great video as always! See you soon in a half year or so.
Weee! You're back! Please stay this time! PLEEEAAASE!!!!!
Welcome back man, we missed you.
I know we say it like...everytime you post a video but, HE'S BACK HOOORAAAAAY
Very interesting! Thanks for uploading!
"Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushing to its limits and breaking apart. The distorted guitar sound is the sound of something too loud for the medium supposed to carry it. The blues singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry too powerful for the throat that releases it. The excitement of grainy film, of bleached-out black and white, is the excitement of witnessing events too momentous for the medium assigned to record them.”
a quote by Brian Eno talking about music but he could just as easily be talking about viddie games.
I love this, thank you
@@fullcircle2340 it's a great quote and I still think about it a lot when I consume media
HOLY SHIEEEET ITS BACK
Oh thank god. You are back.
First 34 seconds made me a fan, and resulted in me subbing.
Wow. Wowwwwwwww welcome back
Yo MrBtounge - take your time with your videoes. The first couple of times you disappeared I paniced, but now i know that you will always return, even if we ahve to wait a couple of years!
Lol.
Was sitting at work thinking;
Wonder what happened to MrBtounge, I liked his videos.
And then you just released a new video.
+Tony Montana Could you start thinking that every day then please? Cus the way I see it, it's your fault we've had to wait so long for a video
Great to see one of the two best currently active YT-based gaming critics back.
The idea of trade-offs in design has began to interest me more and more lately. Mostly as it becomes more and more apparent just how much of game design and development centers around them.
And the other thing you brought up, "janky" but inspired games vs. polished but "safe" games, is another thing I've been thinking more and more about as well. I have a similar conclusion to yours: the janky ones often also seem to be the very best ones. They're often the ones that stick with you and capture you the most. It's exceptionally rare to see a game that combines large scope, that "level" of inspiration (for the lack of a better word) and high levels of polish, even outside RPGs, and within an existing game series, polish and inspiration are often negatively correlated as it progressess (Mass Effect comes to mind). I frankly struggle to think of even one, and all my personal favorite games tend to be either limited in scope or lack in polish. I'd love to see you tackle the theme more in the future.
Every video makes me stressed and uncomfortable. That's why I'm subscribed.
Missed you man.
THE RETURN
I'm enjoying your videos and would like to watch more... yeah. More, please.
Wow, what a great comeback Mr Btongue! The infinity engine games are my absolute favorites and I could feel something missing from the nonetheless excellent Pillars of Eternity. You really helped me realize what that was. You should consider setting up a Patreon or similar, I would gladly throw some dosh at you to get more content.
Welcome back.
Yaaaay, you're back! :D
I love this man
He's alive!
Great video! And now we wait...
Really missed you
"Part 1: Tedious Griping"B-TONGUE IS BACK BABYYYY
The Torment do-over is my biggest desire. So much hype.
New video from YOU ! Need to leave everything behind !
Holy hell, he's back.
This one was really, _really_ long kind sir, even i was starting to have doubts D:.
Goddamnit, there are _so_ many topics that i want to hear your opinion on and probably won't because you'll disappear again -_-
Still, it's fantastic to have you back.
I thought you were gone for good, looking forward for more videos
This video encapsulates everything about how I feel about this resurgence of PC RPGs
Literally did a fist-pump when you said "It's too balanced." Welcome back and preach on!
Hes back! CELEBRATE AND REJOICE! Also I need to find a place for the giant mass effect video tried to watch it again the other day :(