A More Reasonable and Complete History of Astrology and the Zodiac
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 09. 2017
- Watch this video to clearly understand how astrology evolved over the past 5,000 years, and the role that both the sidereal and tropical paradigms played right from the very beginning. You will also come away understanding the true place of astrology amongst the glories of India, why they chose a sidereal zodiac, and why so many people inside and outside of India have fought to reverse the decision.
This is Part 7 of the 9-part refutation of arguments against using the tropical zodiac in Vedic astrology, with sidereal nakṣatra.
Correction: Ptolemy was not a contemporary of Hipparchus, he lived a few centuries later.
I seem to be drawn - in my early interest and studies - to Ernst Wilheim's application.
Have a Blessed Soltice - June 21, 2019. 💫
the way you present this shows Peace, although the "other guy" is rather on the attack mode... Yep I prefer this way, even if I will never know the Real truth about tropical/sidereal.
Your mode is the peace mode and that is good for all.
Actually I was quite silent and humble until Andrew Foss published a very ignorant critique of my system. After that people kept "counter-attacking" and everything escalated.
@ Bharti Jha LOL, you ARE angry, but not at me..you are defending your culture, your guru's and probably your God too.. Where did I hear this before? each "human" feels itself BETTER than the other. and did I say Innocent?
I pray everyday for us, little devils!
Incredibly well researched, insightful, and persuasive.
Brilliant.... superb presentation and highly effective sequence...Natal Horoscopy has many loopholes, flaws, confusion, corruption, secrecy to be ever accepted universally l, practically and scientifically...thank you 🙏 appreciate your sincere and honest attempts along with Ernst, and others from Traditional western Astrology that are trying to integrate this
When I followed sidereal, I saw tropical worked too. I could not figure it out and just left it a mystery with chinese, tibetian, vedic, western and mayan showing too. It all makes sense now.
I'm not a pro astrologer, just tried to figure out my own astrology for many years and the tropical chart always made much more sense to me ( with exception of the nakshatras of course). So in this regard I was very happy to find people on youtube (first being you Vic) who resonate with what makes most sense to my own sense of truth/ rationality. Kudos. Kudos. Kudos for having such patience and deep insights to explain exactly why this all feels right and true.
I get so excited reading all of these responses. Your intentions are pure. Your passion is informative. We love you Vic
Facinating, thanks, man!
Great history lesson. Thank you Vic. As they say the mistruths are accepted as truths is Kalu yuga and defended violently as well and whole cultures led by mistaken traditions.
So generous of you!
Thank you! Great video!
Oh Vic, you're blowing my mind here! I'm going to have change Zodiacs aren't I? What will become of me?
Did you? :)
Excellent
Very Informative, you should be the head of astrology departments of India and straighten up those who refuse to change. Can you also give information about the origins of Palmistry?
Our culture is conservative but even then it also agrees to change itslef from time to time.
Smooth Operator!
Brilliant...Thank you Vic...
Great presentation Vic.
Very thought provoking video. The only thing it doesn't address is, how can one dispute the idea that the ancients knew everything and are infallible. You mentiond the Yugas which I think is very important, but that is easily overlooked, AND there are varied views on which Yuga is actually in effect anyway.
u r awesome bro, peeaaaceee!!
I present two logics for this in the video. (1) The ancient authors may be perfect, but the modern reader is not. So the end result is not a perfect transmission of knowledge. (2) Natal horoscopic astrology is simply not addressed by the "ancient sages" who were perfect. It is addressed by modern "sages" who are imperfect.
OMG, I actually agree with you here, Darshan. :)
Assuming the ancient authors were infallible has so many problems it's not even funny. I won't list them here though as I'll be writing an essay. I will just say that it is a form of circular logic.
Hah... TDP is excellent at his skill set. He knows Sri Yukteswar was the teacher of my teacher's teacher. And I think if you both talked about what you thought was currently going on with Yugas, you might not agree. ; p
I"m sure the love devoted to a guru DOES NOT come from their rationaleS but from somewherre there where our own truth ressonates with the Truth.
wow...thankyou so so very much for this study and it was certainly a study for me...it took me 2 hours to go thru this 30 minute presentation...i love your teaching method
i have been in process of combining both western and sidereal for my own chart to understand as much about myself and Source of existence as possible...even tho so many say not to do it/cant be done, but i am maverick and will do it for myself even when told not to...now i have a GREAT and eternal FOUNDATION on which to build...thank you so very very much
good to know at least someone pays good attention. thank you so much.
i think that majority of the people who have knowlege on astrology agree that the zodiac is inherently tropical, however as an observer there is more that what meets the eye. Tropically speaking, we can easily judge a part of the personality by asking the sun sign of a person, right? because the sun will always show itself regardless of how complex and compounded the personality. Im a tropical user, no doubt, but I noticed that the personality of an individual, as far as sun sign is concerned oscillates like a pendulum.In other words, if a person is born on May 29, he is a gemini but 60% of his personality he acts as a Taurus, 10% he becomes cancer, then goes back to its original personality of 30% Gemini. The personality is swinging. I know that history is very important but what we need here is physical evidence. In the end of the day,astrology is astrology, we die yet astrology remains.
The other issue, is the personality is not only a Sun Sign phenomena. The personality, like a person's karma is reflected by the entire picture of the chart. A person can be a Leo, but have Saturn in the Ascendant, and there you now could be confused as a Saturn ruled ascendant. And this statement is even an over simplification. Put Mars in bad dignity in the 5th house and aspecting indicators for children. Now to the children, they may seem like a cruel version of Scorpio, because that is how Mars directs them in their interaction with children.
i feel that a reply to Mr. Ryan Kurczak seems inappropriate, its an honor, anyways, Karma and planetary influences are very subjective in nature, perhaps even mystical, it can not be used for purposes of evidence. i think that one way on ascertaining the validity of tropical and siderial zodiac is through its Sun sign phenomena. Will there be any other grounds?
@@kexfromtheheart223 This argument is absolutely silly for any professional astrologer that one planet out of context could tell a personality.
Great presentation!
Hey Vic,
Really informative video! (Although I'm watching this three years after its posting:P). If possible, could you kindly let know where you get the references to Sri Swarupananda and Jayendra Swamigal, if those references can be found online?
Thanks
Arvind
As it's three years old, I too don't have this information handy.
@@VicDiCaraAstrology Oh okay! Because we hold them in great reverence. (Jayendra Swamigal attained disembodiment in 2018) So if they have advocated such a significant reform we can muster much more openness and receptivity to the idea in India. Does their statement pertain to complete de-linking of the zodiac signs/months with the nakshatras (as a time keeping system) or is it only in the context of redrawing the uttarayana and dakshinayana dates ? Pardon me for pressing you with so many questions about something which you don't vividly remember, but I just want to be absolutely sure. (There is a common push back which we get from the other side saying that although the ayana dates may be different, ayanas are an astronomical/seasonal thing and this would have no bearing on the timekeeping system/ astrological zodiac that has been handed down to them )
Can you carefully check my materials at vicdicara.com/tropical and see if I did not give source reference? Also, be aware that such persons of such elevated status typically don't care much about our silly horoscopic astrology. Also be aware that whatever affects the months affects the signs, as Suryasiddha explicitly says the two are identical.
@@VicDiCaraAstrology Personally, I completely agree with your interpretation and am intellectually convinced of its correctness. (incl. your source references) My point was only in the limited context of gathering more acceptance to the idea and countering commonly held views.
Also, found these materials online:
1) Mr. Ryan Kurczak's interview of Mr. T V Sivaraman
czcams.com/video/fPnhIR5E9qo/video.html
czcams.com/video/BexZq3LJFcQ/video.html
2) Website of Reformed Sanathan Calendar appears inaccessible to me.
circumsolatious.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-march-equinox-and-vedic-truth.html - found the same content here.
I will continue searching online and hopefully will be able to dig up more.
archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra2/page/n309/mode/1up
Pages 310 to 312 of this book contain the Dwarka Jagadguru's ordinance (worded in Sanskrit) endorsing the Sayana system. The other parts of the book are equally as revealing. (I'm sure you would have read these already)
To have the details of the Cuneiform Sumerian Tablets.
I really appreciate your academic rigour and unemotional presentations. I have personally found much better results with the Tropical rather than Sidereal Zodiac, and need no convincing, but I'm grateful to have such a clear understanding of why it works better for me.
My experience has been the total opposite. In all the charts I have analyzed, tropical made no sense whereas sidereal did.
Erwin Masusu strange. Sidereal made absolutely no sense in my case...
wow! but why would Ernst and Ryan use 'ayanamsha' if they use Tropical zodiac?
d82713 they use ayanamsa for the nakshatras placement but tropical for sign placement of planets
Mahabharat lists the natal horoscope of Krishna, which means they knew about it all when this was written, much preceding Greek Astrology.
Mahābhārata does not list the natal horoscope of Krishna. If you disagree, please cite the location in Mahābhārata where it is given. Sūr Dās or the book Kha Mānikya was the first to give a natal horoscope of Sri Krishna. Sūr Dās is a 15-16th century, and Kha Mānikya probably has a similar date.
"More reasonable", "complete history" - I love the modesty here!
Me too!
Can you invite KRS on your channel
I think you are 2 or 3 years late? I actually had KRS scheduled to do an interview on my channel and once this thing happened with me defending the Tropical Zodiac in vedic astrology, he refused to show up. I invited people many times to come on my channel and discuss these things. The only response I ever got was from Richard Fiddler and someone else. Eventually I gave up.
@@VicDiCaraAstrology I can't find the vedio with krschannel.
Plzzz can u send me the link so I cann see krs and u together