1982 Falklands War: What Must D-Day Have Been Like For Both Sides? | DCS
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- Today we study the San Carlos landings on the 21st May 1982 by the British amphibious fleet. We ask what it could have looked like being there on the day. We first re-enact from the point of view of the Argentine A-4 Skyhawks attacking HMS Argonaut, then we re-enact the 801 NAS Sea Harrier orbiting above the fleet intercepting the Argentine aircraft and finally we re-enact the often forgotten by crucial Junglie helicopters lifting stores and men from the fleet onto beaches in San Carlos.
PATREON: / grimreapers
0:00 Intro
2:10 Background History
4:03 Unit Positions & Details
8:25 History Of The Argentine Attacks
16:18 The British Survive The Day
18:09 Re-enactment 1: Skyhawk Attack On HMS Argonaut
25:21 Re-enactment 2: Sea Harrier Defense
28:52 Re-enactment 3: Helicopter Scram Attacks In San Carlos
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#GRReenactment #DCSReenactment #FalklandsWar #SanCarlos #Mavlinas #Falklands #GooseGreen #GR #DCSWorld #MilitaryAviationHistory #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military #DCS - Hry
I was on the Canberra on D-Day and it was chaotic, with Canberra firing 26 GPMG machine guns and should held Blowpipe missiles. Every other ship were firing everything from missiles, main guns and hand held small arms, adding to the noise of the jets and bombs going off as well as planes being blown out of the sky. My own book 'The Band That Went To War' tells of my interesting, exciting, sad and funny aspects of the Falklands war.
Thanks Drummer, I will buy the book. I'd love to talk to you about this one day.
Crumbs! As CAP said, Canberra was so lucky not to be targeted by the Skyhawks. I wonder if Canberra's civilian white paint made the Argentine pilots think she was a hospital ship, and that was why they left her alone?
Cheers mate, your bravery is why I spent 21 yrs, 4 tours defending my country.
🇨🇦 Army Veteran
@@timonsolus No, we had some close calls that day and the Argentines knew that we were a troop ship. Having witnessed the attacks I can say we were just lucky and what happened was flying really low across a crucible of our fire, pilots picked the ship that lines up closest to their approach path and went for, of which there were plenty of targets in a relatively small area. The Argentines claimed to have sunk Canberra several times during the war but failed, made all the more embarrassing when we took their army home after the war.
@@timonsolusyes that's exactly what they thought. Interviews years later the Argentine pilots said they went for her but seen she was white and classed her as hospital ship so then had to realign thier attack on other ships. it lost them critical targeting time
Surgeon Cpt. Rick "The Doc" Jolly.
Only man to get a medal 🏅 from BOTH sides of the war.
The Queen gave him special permission to wear his Argentinian medal on all occasions.
Respect.
My boss on the Canberra. A great man, doctor and officer!
Setting that up, flying it, filming/editing it and narrating it must have been a huge amount of work? Thanks, very interesting
This type of vid is a labour of love.
@@grimreapers Appreciated 😎
One thing I learned about the air war from the Argentinian side, not all of the ejector seats in their aircraft were funtional. They usually had replacement rocket motors supplied by the US, but a lot ended up expiring, but they stopped sending replacements to them. This meant ejecting became lottery to see if their seats would even function properly, which definitely cost more pilots their lives.
That’s grim
Ejecting from a Skyhawk at high speed in a fully serviceable Ejection Seat was a Lottery on you going to be able to get up and do anything after the parachute opened.
Thanks guys - ex- Antrim here
Hey, one of my best mates was on the Antrim. *tips hat with respect*
Thanks!
I think the reason it's such an interesting war is it was a big ask, similarly it was the last relatively "low tech" war without AEGIS, phallanx, AMRAAM and standoff weapons etc.
Agreed. In close and dirty.
@@grimreapers : Yes. Apart from the AIM-9L Sidewinder (which IMO the Sea Harriers could have managed without if they'd had to), the tech used by both sides was "Vietnam War era".
Two fun facts.
I was at university reading Engineering when we had heard that the Argentinians were planning to invade the Falklands 8 days previously and had started to calculate things (engineering you see). We worked out that it would take 13 days for any of our hunter killer submarines to get to the Falklands at flank speed from anywhere in the world. We decided that British Intelligence had more notice than us, our sources were journalists, so after 8 days we knew that in all likely hood all 4 boats were already there circling like sharks or maybe one was in for repairs and it was only three. We knew that it would be suicide for them to invade by sea against that and happily relaxed smug in the knowledge that it was all bluff by Galtieri. Imagine our surprise when the Argentinians landed unopposed (at least by the RN) 6 days later! I did not understand then nor do I now how this stupidity happened. One theory is that Thatcher wanted the invasion for political reasons but that is pure speculation.
15 years ago I had occasion to work in a care home teamed up with a man who had served aboard one of the RN ships in this battle (I don't remember her name). Of course we got to talking. He told me that one day after the dud bombs had been dropped (as mentioned in this video) his normally mild mannered and pleasant skipper appeared on the bridge in a vile temper and bit everyone's head off over nothing at all. Later that day he apologised for his behaviour and explained that he'd learned that a British politician had announced on the BBC that the Argentinians were miss-fusing their bombs. He was not wrong, I remember seeing that on TV. The journalists on the RN ships had also known this but kept it under their hats for the blindingly obvious security reasons. The Argentinians also saw this newscast and stopped miss-fusing their bombs.
You may think that today's politicians are morons but I assure you that it was ever thus.
Really critical point was the Argentine pilots attacked what they could easily see ... the big ships. Their impact would have been much greater if they had attacked the landing craft/ landed troops. But they were too small to see. Interesting that in our GR re-enactment mission a year ago the GR pilots reported the same issue, they couldn't see the landing craft so attacked the ships.
... and they avoided attacking Canberra because they thought it was a hospital ship (confirmed by Argentine pilots comments after the war)
@@andreartymiuk No, they knew we were a troop ship and should have been a prize target. They even claimed to have sunk us twice in the run up to the landings and one of the pilots had 'Canberra painted on the side of his plane as hit. The reason we were not hit was luck and the Argentine aircraft flying low of the sea, then the headland before heading into the crucible of fire that was San Carlos. [Canberra had 26 GPMG machine guns mounted to the rails as well as Blowpipe should fire missiles, as well as every other ship firing whatever they had] The pilot had seconds to choose a ship and aimed for whatever was nearest to their direction of travel, but they were flying so low the bombs did not always have time to arm.
The AAF showed they had balls of steel in 82...worthy opponents, IMHO
Similar correcting - whilst helicopters were used alot of the planned helicopters were lost when Atlantic Conveyor was sunk (by far the most significnat loss of the war), which meant alot of the troops had to walk/yomp rather than be flown by helicopter - the decision to do this was basically due to the commanders faith in his troops.
Yup.
Yes. Only 1 Chinook survived the loss of the Atlantic Conveyor, and that was the only "ultra heavy lift" helicopter the British had.
Pretty fantastic depiction of the somewhat grainy footage from the actual battle that was captured in '82. Well done, GR!
Great Post. Thanks. I was in TAO (Tactical Action Officer) training in the USN in 1989 and we had a Royal Navy officer come and brief us on the Falklands war. Good overview.
The reality of fighting a war almost 7000 miles away from your nearest base and conducting an opposed amphibioius landing without being able to establish are superiority against a numerically superior force are that the Falklands on paper should have been a guaranteed British defeat. Argentinian failure to establish sea control (because of the hunter killer subs) and air superiority (because of the harriers largely) plus low morale were the reasons for Argentinian defeat.
As a 13 year old Canadian boy I was fascinated with the Falkland War. I watched the tv news and read the newspapers and I was so proud of the UK. God bless all those that didn't make it.
I can only imagine flying that low and at those speeds knowing that you were going to be facing ships and had seconds to maneuver, align yourself, drop bombs and trying to escape without crashing or getting hit. Insane pilot skills. Also the stress from the people on the ships trying to defend, move and not shoot eachother in the process.
The first attack when you were flying the Skyhawks looked so much like the actual footage. Great job.
Watched it on TV in '82. Nice to a get a geographic perspective of it all. Thanks.
That was one of the best reenactments yet. I remember well watching it all unfold on the tv back in the day; never felt so British! Thanks guys.
Great vid & very vivid to watch. My cousin who was a CPO on Fearless & told me about BombAlley.. When he wasn't in the engine room keeping the old girl going he was on deck firing at the attacking aircraft with a GPMG.. He said he could actually see the pilots eyes as they were so low & close... Truly astonishing to listen to..
Amazing!
Brilliant was a type22 frigate, second ship in the class
Thanks for the correction.
@@grimreapers Broadsword and Brilliant both had version1 of Seawolf with 2 6shot launchers
If you would consider it a worthy experiment, I think it would be interesting to see the British landings attempted at the alternate sites proposed by Julian Thompson. His suggestions being: 'San Carlos', 'Cow Bay and Volunteer Bay', 'Campa Menta and Salvador', & 'Berkeley Sound'.
That was fantastic!! 😀
I always love it when you do the Falklands war because I remember watching it on the news as a kid and seeing the footage from bomb alley as the planes were whizzing past the ships at low level absolutely stunned me.
The biggest hurtle to the argentine airborne attacks at San Carlos was ironically the Argentine Air Force itself. The low attack profile of argentine fighters meant that often times the bombs dropped didn’t get enough air time to arm themselves before impacting the target, almost none of the bombs dropped were equipped with drogue chutes for low level attacks. The sea cat, sea dart and sea slug missile systems failed almost constantly across most vessels present in the theatre and carrier based air cover was extremely limited in range and quantity. Quite regularly argentine aircraft would find a royal navy vessel with both its main gun and missile system out of action, attack it in several bombing runs and scoring hits doing so but not manage to inflict serious damage cuz the bombs just didn’t arm in time. Despite the FAA scoring countless bomb hits on RN/RFA vessels during the campaign, only HMS Coventry (Type 42) was directly sunk by a fuzed bomb, with HMS Antelope (Type 21) being lost when her crew tried to defuse one of the many dud bombs that punctured the hull and HMS Ardent (Type 21), HMS Fearless (LCU) and RFA Sir Galahad being lost to fire after recieving multiple dud hits. HMS Glasgow, HMS Antrim, HMS Argonaut, HMS Plymouth, RFA Sir Lancelot, RFA Sir Bevidere, RFA Sir Tristam and British Wye had all been struck by duds, but walked away with a blue eye and even then often times substantial damage. If the argentine Air Force would have been equipped with drogue chutes, the tonnage lost in San Carlos would have been exponentially higher, most likely even mission threatening.
I was a 10 year old then and i remember the news on TV about this war. I didn't know where and what the Falklands are, or anything about UK or Argentine
The events of D-Day +0 illustrate why it is so important to maintain OPSEC. The BBC World Service and British newspapers like The Sun ran articles along the lines of "Ho. Ho. Stoopid Argies! Their bombs don't work!" From these news reports the Argentinians realised their aircraft were dropping bombs from too low an altitude for the bombs to arm before hitting their targets. So the Argentinians modified their bombs and adapted their tactics to inflict more damage - much to the annoyance of the British commanders in the Falklands.
Very interesting re-enactment of some of the action in the Falklands war.
Superb video Cap. It brought those grainy news shots of Skyhawks and Daggers and the fall of shot in the water and the weaving SAMs back into vivid life. I read Sharkey Ward's biography and would recommend it to all GR fans. Hats off to the Argentinian pilots whose supreme skills were let down by poor target selection (intel?), aiming, wrongly fused bombs and the realisation this was probably a one way mission. Again, this was one of GR's finest productions, well done
without question. the best sim you've done. Bravo.
Love these historical reenactment’s! Also can’t get enough of Matrix! The most British man ever!
Great video, Cap
A very good video, thank you all very much.
Great video, thanks boys!! 👍
That was bloody brilliant!
Great vid Cap - especially the opening scenes - just like the original footage! Did you include the special helicopter that Randy Andy flew? It had a boudoir section in the back...
lol! and... de-monetized.
Great video Cap and history lesson
Always fun to watch Grim reapers video!
Watching this made me wonder what would happen if there had been a naval battle, so my suggestion is British Roysl Navy task group vs Argentinean naval tast group, period accurate.
Yes, it would have been interesting if the Argentine carrier 25 de Mayo hadn't abandoned her mission after the Belgrano was sunk, and launched her 8 Skyhawks against the British fleet.
From what I've read, it was not one-sided as you say. And as any war is, it was partly chaotic on both sides. Any human endeavour (and war is incredibly complex) is prone to mistakes, oversights, estimation errors, and any number of other seemingly mundane errors. But war has the unique character of producing immediate loss of human life and health as a result.
Excelent video
Reading recommendation for you cap is Harrier 809. It covers the the replacement harriers but also the lesser known areas of the RAF in Chile. Defiantly a read that you will find interesting
Yup it's on my TO READ list.
@@grimreapers that's good and keep up the hard work I always enjoy the videos
@@grimreapers Yep Op FINGENT, the placement of an RAF Marconi S259 Air Transportable Radar on a mountain in Chile, with a Satcom link directly to the Task Force to inform them that the Argies were on their way! I first heard of it in 1995 from my Squadron's Flt Sgt when he was pissed at his retirement bash. Turned out he was one of the ten RAF personnel on the Detachment when the files about it were declassified in the 2010's.
let's hope this video doesn't up in a uk defence journal article
P.S. Excellent narration of the battle, Cap. 👍
Very cool👍
The falklands War, is why I spent 21 yrs defending mine. 🍁
Canadian Army Veteran 🇨🇦
Thanks
My unit did a combined jump on the Salsbury Plain with 2 PARA in the 1990's. Good men all.
impressive very nice
I live approximately 2 mi from NAS Oceana when I was growing up the A4 Skyhawk was by far my favorite plane until the F-14 showed up
Great vid folks. Just bring pickie though, it was MV Norland not Nordland.....fantastic vessel and there are some great illustrations of her in the sound bracketed by bombs
Thanks, lots of spelling errors in this vid.
That's a good sim.
This was a "Blue on Blue" engagement, meaning it was NATO weapons systems vs other NATO weapons systems. The Brits (like everyone else) had only really trained to fight "the enemy", i.e. Soviet/ChiCom weapon systems. As a result, they weren't fully prepared for Exocets, A-4s, and Mirages.
The Exocet was the only real shock for the British. The A-4 and Mirage weren't too different from the MiG-17 and MiG-21.
@@timonsolus The Exocet wasn't a Shock for the British!!! A lot of our ships were fitted with it and the Royal Navy were fully aware of its limitations. If you had enough warning that one was on its way and the ship's ops room was totally on the ball, the standard deployment of Chaff could easily defeat it. Which was exactly what happened when one was fired at HMS Avenger on 30th May 1982. As for the other three attacks, Sheffield should not have been hit, there were major failings in the ops room and maybe a bit of bad luck. The Missiles that hit Atlantic Conveyor were actually fired at another ship, which did decoy the missiles off itself only for them to lock on to the Conveyor which had no defences. Why that Ship was where it was at the time is beyond my compensation!! If it wasn't needed in San Carlos, it should have been nowhere near the Carrier Battle Group. As for Glamorgan, the location and existence of a shore based Exocet Launcher was known and ships had been told to stay clear of that area. The Ship's Captain ignored the orders and 13 of his crew paid the price.
25:12 - He's ready for his close-up. ^_^
Even if the worst possible scenario happened and a carrier was sunk, the US (Reagan and the USN high brass) would have loaned a similar small carrier to the Royal Navy to use. At that point it was too late to give up, Britain would have won in the end no matter what
I personally think the UK public would have forced the end of the conflict with such a loss but we'll never know.
But would that US carrier have reached the islands in time to take part in the conflict? And would the American public have accepted putting the lives of US sailors at risk in a war that had nothing to do with the US? Many Americans in 1982 would have remembered that the UK had done nothing to help the US in the Vietnam War...
@@timonsolus The plan was to use as many ex-Navy personnel (paid Mercs) and Royal Navy sailors for positions that were transferable which many were so only a very small number of personnel would be current USN and those would be voluntary. As for Vietnam I think it’s safe to say Britain had helped the US enough in the prior 100 years for that to be a minor point. Especially since this was Reagan, it could have been made out as an emergency British ‘Purchase’ as if the uk paid for it.
21:53 lol did anyone else notice that missile bouncing off the water!?😆
Totally of no use to the sim re-enactment but some of those SBS and SAS early recon missions were proper. It is so easy to only think of the Hollywood esque moments, but when you read about the long deployments you realise how truly hard-core they are. Effectively on their own for days and days on end in enemy ground collecting intel, hiding and half freezing to death. Even some of the insertions became life or death survival situations in south Atlantic storms. Not all of the baddasses had jets strapped to their backsides!
@Cap would you release the mission setup for this so we can fly it ourselves? That is if there are no special mods you cannot share. Thanks! This was so interesting to see both sides.
Sure, Msg me in discord plz.
Regardless of what happened, the USA was never going to allow the UK to lose. Reagan ordered all support from intelligence and had a carrier ready to give to Britain had one of their carriers been lost. American involvement was so strong due to concerns the Soviet Union would support Argentina if the Soviets were given enough time.
When PM Maggie Thatcher, during a briefing with the generals, found out we had the older AIM-9's, she said, "I'll call Ronnie, and see what we can do about that"
12 hours later, the latest L's were on a transport plane heading for the UK
nice question what would happend if Argies bring their mirage to make any support skyhwaks and daggers in CAS( which are not suitable for an air fight) mission against harriers. huge respect for real effect of these bombardments in real life . pilots are very well trained and full of courage, two ships don't blown up because of problems with the bombs
HMS Brilliant was a type 22 rather than a type 21 (difference being seawolf rather than seacat) Seacat was useless.
The fact so many escorts were attacked wasn't an accident - the aim of the escort ships was to fire off enough anti aircraft fire (of any sort - just enough tracer coming up) to either shoot down the attacking aircraft or if not make the pilots so uncomfortable that they'd attack the escorts themselves the target rather than the landing/troop ships, a bit like a bodyguard jumps infront of a bullet.. Several managed to get themselves hit. No naval vessel is going to anchor whilst under air attack unless it absolutely has to.
Thanks for the correction.
Dang I can't believe I missed this mission. The would've been perfect going back to AJAX Bay
Interesting, I just started reading Vulcan 607 (Black Buck raid) ... coincidence ... yeah probably what else could it be.
Do you hear about Argentinian’s fuse, planes was flying so low that the fuse have no time to armed I wondered if it is true ?
Great simulation, chaps. Shame you couldn't have the Sea Wolfs in there, much more effective anti-air missile. (I served on Type 21 and Type 22 post-Falklands).
Seacat works better in game than real life......lol
Yeh i remember it being TERRIBLE in real life.
Is there any chance the base miz file could be made available to allow others to utilise the correct naval unit placements ?
Yup msg me in Discord plz.
@@grimreapers done .
30:38 he worked up quite a sweat, apparently
"perfect landing!" Do not, I repeat do NOT accept the ride if your Uber driver is named " Cap".
lols
You’re a ‘WinWing’ guy I believe? Have you found a UK supplier? If not, where do you order your WinWing kit from? Cheers
Neg, all of mine came direct from Chi.
@@grimreapers OK, cheers
Cap, have you guys heard of China's UCAV-converted Mig-19's (possibly called J-6's, not sure) yet? They apparently have a good bit of them. Sounds like a good idea for a video maybe, possibly, maybe? Thanks Super-Cap! Keep up the great work, boys! And girls!
Will investigate.
This conflict just proved how underfunded the UK armed forces have been since the 50's! Considering the resources available at the time, UK forces performed admirably! Unfortunately, today, nothing has changed. We could do the same now, but it would probably take the entire Royal Navy to achieve it, as ship numbers are at an all time low!!
I'm always slightly irritated that the British pilots just grunt like Colonials, when pulling G. Shouldn't there be a replacement sound file with "Oh, Dear, mhmmm. Heavens! This is rather unpleasant, what?"
By the way did you see that you were featured in one of the defence press?
Cool.
And that was easy mode🙄
Didn't the seacat missile have a 50/50 chance of hitting it's target
I believe the SAS got the first confirmed kill with a Stinger missile here. They did this despite not knowing how to use it properly.
i think they shoot down a Pucara aircraft. One survived he meet the sas commander, in charge of the sas in Sarajevo in the 90s working for the UN. Rose was the sas solider surname. but double check this.
The Marines based on the islands got the first kills.
i was hoping someone would drop their tanks not the bombs, because, grim reapers.
I'm sure we did that too.
question could an a-4 Skyhawk carry a torpedo. would torpedo's have worked here
What if the Harrier could carry laser guns
That would have been scary, truly.
@@superflyguy4488 i dont understand your answer.
I've never understood why the UK cares so much about these remote islands. What's their value?
At the time the UN Anarctic mining protection laws were about to run out. There was a good chance that oil, gas and other metals would be allowed to be mined in the Anarctic. The Falklands would become a massive oil refinery, ore processing plant and port for the world's shipping................ oh and the UK government had promised the islanders they would remain British
The Empire must not be challenged. Pretty much the only reason for a small ex-European island to care about an even smaller island far away.
Its not the real estate its the people. That was the difference in the war, the Argentines were fighting for perceived ownership of the islands, we [yes i went to the war] the British fought for the rights of the invaded islanders to live a peaceful life.
@@Toms3110 I didn't know that, makes sense.
several points...
a) back then and even now many geologists belive to be oil around the islands
b) as drummer pointed out they owned it to the inhabitants of the islands
c) if they don't uphold their claim, then the next logic step would be to cut down the military to a bunch of ICBMs plus like 50 guards per ICBM and get rid or all the useless airforce, tanks, navy... the whole shabang that isn't a ICBM because why keep something around you won't use to defend your territory
d) if they had ignored the argies walzing in on the falklands, within weeks the chinese would have been going for Hong Kong
The sea cat/sea dart (unsure which it is as I know almost nothing of british naval missiles) skipping of the water at 21:56 is hilarious to me and im not sure why
Cartoon missile?
Sir Lancelot, not Launcelot.
Geraint not Gerraint.
Sorry for spelling errors.
Interesting scenario and not without value.
Would it be pointless to see what a Nimitz class CG - one US offer - could have offered.
3 Cdo brigade where not around 2000, it was reinforced with 2 & 3 PARA, that’s 3500 easy, add then Logistic regiment, 29 regiment RA, air squadron and the rest, 3 Brigades was prop around 5000.
The British lost 2 Gazelles to small arms fire, an GR 3 to a blowpipe over Port Howard and Ardents Lynx.
They did not loose 20 men and a landing craft on 21 may
We should have bought Phalanx CIWS from America at that time, ridiculous if it was true the landing platform dock ships or transport ships were undefended, we don't make that mistake now.
Yanks were just bringing CIWS into service, First ship to get it only got it fitted in 1980.
It’s Argentine, not Argentinian
The Argies punched well above their weight here. I still can't believe how well they did against the Brits, and how poorly the Uk conducted itself here.
Poorly? you are joking, misinformed or a fecking troll? 8000 miles from home and with a thin supply chain, to dislodge an enemy that had a couple of months to prepare, where the normal doctrine is you need a 3 to one advantage, we did pretty bloody good to end it all in 74 days! AND we had the decency to take the Argentines home afterwards.
Yeh we came scarily close to losing this.
@@grimreapers I disagree. If you saw the quality, training and motivation of our troops [as i did] then provided we could get them ashore then the war was won. To attack a defensive position requires a 3 to one advantage but the numbers were the other way around and they had a chance to prepare so should still be there today. They were beaten at sea, in the air and on land and that victory and the associated sacrifices should not be forgotten. The Argentine navy stayed at home, the air force pressed home their attacks and , their soldiers fought, but they were beaten and surrendered [not a ceasefire] It was an incredible feat of military enterprise. Difficult and hard won yes. Close no.
The Argies sank two Type 21 warships in the Battle of San Carlos but they were replaced by superior warships from the Bristol group that arrived few days later.
HMS Bristol - Type 82
HMS Cardiff - Type 42
HMS Active - Type 21 frigate
HMS Andromeda - Leander class
HMS Avenger - Type 21 frigate
HMS Minerva - Leander class
HMS Penelope - Leander class
No matter how many ships the Argies sank/ damaged in the Falklands War, the Royal Navy had the numbers to replace them. The Argies should have targeted the British carrier group instead of chasing HMS Brilliant up and down Falkland sound. They got their strategy all wrong and it cost them the war.
@@PotatoSalad614 Pretty much spot on there!!! With the exception of the two LSL's taken out on 8th June and HMS Glamorgan, every ship that was sunk or badly damaged was replaced while the war was still going. We had even got 4 extra Chinooks down there before the war finished on the 10th June, but for some reason they were not unloaded at San Carlos until the day the war finished.