The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 1)
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2009
- Discussion between Thunderf00t (Physical Evidence and Reasoned Logic supporter (Pearlist)) and Ray Comfort (Creationist Christian).
Journal entry 22nd July 2009. (relevant bit, whole entry is too long for rest see beautyintheuniverse)
Up with dawnpeckish so found mcdonalds for breakfast. Back to Rays place where I had about 4 hrs to kill before our meeting at 11ish. Started adding placemarkers to the bible at the interesting bits I had found. By the time I had finished there was a lot of blue post it notes sticking out the bible. It has now also become clear to me that while my preferred modus opperandi has been in the defense of science, I have now read enough of the bible that I could utterly shred this shepherds myth. Its an interesting question should I set all the time I have spent going through the bible in detail to naught and just let Christianity have its peace, or should I actively engage in its demise. When the ministry opened at 9ish I went and introduced myself, and they gave me a rather officious line about not doing anything till the appointed time. No big deal for me, I put some effort into ordering the car and mending some bust electronics (resoldering wires etc). Stuff that had been put on the back burner for expediency on the road, but a more ordered man would have taken care of he went along. Saw Ray arrive by car, which raised an eyebrow as the 60 minutes thing said he cycled to work. Probably just he didnt want to cycle if he was going to be on camera. As a cyclist myself something I could empathize with. Ray is a small man, but chirpy and polite. Surprisingly Ray now informed me that there was no problem in me filming. Hmmm wtf?, but my only care at the time was the original deal was being honored. Shortly after he invited me in it was a little intro and pretty much straight down to business. The consequence of which was I only had a few minutes to brief him on points I wanted to raise. A point which I was keen on doing as I wanted the point I was making to survive robust scrutiny, and not to survive simply as they were bought up in real time (catching someone on the hop). The moments that raised an eyebrow for me was how quickly ray picked up on me lying to him, as an example of how religions are created an propagated. (by mechanism of the almighty Tod!) I am a poor liar. Its amazing though, how well even folk like ray can pick up on the bodylanguage. On watching the video you can see it all. How he gets uncomfortable and starts shuffling. I cant remember too much of the details (it was too much of a manic day) but I do remember seeing Ray being troubled by some of the points I was making. I could see the doubt of a man challenged with a concept altogether new to him. I could see it in his bodylanguage of his eyes. After that we went to lunch ray was buying. We took the camera man too who is obviously a hovind fan. Systematically I went through his points one by one and in the most mild of demeanors academically shredded them. The shame being that noone else at the table, other than myself would have been able to assess the academic veracity of my arguments. Ray offered to help me out by putting me up in a motel for a night (after a fashion). The offer was sincere and I think somewhat precipitated by rays sympathy for what he perceived as my hardship. I graciously thanked him for the offer but turned it down in that I like rough life in the wide open space. After lunch ray gave me a tour of the ministry. The place clearly oozes with money. Rays artifacts are very coy (a skeleton for the cupboard etc) He also has a collection of fake hominids not something to inspire someone with confidence about ones academic footing.
Then had a long chat with the camera man about the history of the earth (using the correlated history of earth poster). One by one I cut down the hovind arguments, and eventually all he had left was to simply say there are both sides of the argument.
Its amazing testament to the feedback mechanisms of the mind, that even after the foundations of his belief had been systematically and academically removed till none remained that he was still sure that there was two sides to the argument. Then had another chat with ray, which I wish I had recorded.. mostly about the bible. The things I really remember was that Ray believes in witches, wizards, demons and sorcerers. Hmmm thats usually a end of conversation type moment. He also thinks that the holocaust was gods way of punishing the jews. I told him very clearly that that was not going to make him very popular if he voiced such opinions in public.
Ray left and I spent an hour talking with his graphic design man. He clearly wasnt greatly interested in talking about points of contest, and we got on very well. He was a model maker and pilot. We talked teccie for an hour or so. A good guy!
"How was Earth made?"
"Well, science hasn't exactly deduced an official cau-..."
"You don't know?! Guess god is real then, ignorance can just be replaced with god, god did this god did that!!" *falls to ground and foams at mouth*
"We don't know, therefore God"
-Ray Comfort
we dont now therefore evolution
@@amanuelyimer3739 we actually do know about evolution because it is predictable observable and provable through noticeable patterns. Not true of God. God is lacking evidence at best. Flat out non existent or unprovable at worst.
@@amanuelyimer3739 yeah, leave it to the athiest brony to be a ironic cringe factory.
@@TurdFurgeson275would it be better coming from a Bible literalist homeschooled pastor's kid that left the church, found out about bristlecone pine trees, and the 10,000+ feet of mountain under them that have been in California for at least 800 years before Noah's mythical flood... We have living non clonal trees that have been growing since 2,800 bce.. the genealogies, creation, and divine inspiration of the Bible are absolute garbage, mythology, and fraud as history/evidence/something that should be taught/reason for tax exemption.
It always amazes me that some people think that any answer, regardless of evidence, is superior to "I don't know"
That seems to be the creationist position: "I'm certain with my beliefs, you aren't, therefore I'm right."
To that, I'll just quote Nietzsche: "A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
It's because people seem to assume that when someone says "I don't know" they mean they'll never know, can't ever know, or don't want to find out. They think it stops at "I don't know." When someone who thinks says "I don't know" the unspoken (and just as often actually spoken) follow-up is "but I'll stop at nothing to find out"
I explained to a friend of mine why saying I don't know is not giving any more support to their beliefs. At one point if you had asked where does lightning come from and one person says Zeus throws it and the other person said I don't know, does that give the Zeus statement credibility? Of course not. Same thing
The flip? How the hell did he get Thuderfoot being an African American name? What the actual hell?!
Alberto Balsalm What prejudices? How do you know I projected an image on him?
When did I say it was stupid? Did you not just commit the same thing you claimed of me?
I am trying to understand why this man asked if it had any connection to African American names. What is it about Thunderfoot that would imply such a thing? I would ask this question if it was any heritage he spoke about; because there is nothing in the name to imply it's connection with any typical culture.
Stop making presumptions about people making presumptions.
Alberto Balsalm
*You do. That's the culture of fans of Thunderf00t and New Atheism in general. Holding in esteem those who think differently than those who think similarly.*
I'm not a fan of Thunderfoot, I just think he had better points in this argument. I am also not a New Atheist. I am not an Atheist. You made a false assumption again.
*There's nothing significant about RC's statement. Yet you seem bewildered by it. Whether stupidity or some other emotion you are projecting it on him.*
Er the significance of his statement was that he asked a question that made no sense. The what the "flip" and "the hell" was simply exaggerated expressions on the internet dude. I do this with random videos to express the shock I have in real life. So on the net I make it more expressive so that others can see my level of shock or awe.
*Why the emotion then? If TF said it you would just be curious and maybe google it*
You again made an assumption about me though. I would probably ask that even if TF asked that question. How does the name Thunderfoot have any connections to any typical culture? And why would he assume it is of a culture that is different from TF's culture. Is Ray insinuating something? Probably not but it was random as hell, hence the "what the flip" and "the hell" comment I made.
Nothing personally against Ray. I mean he seems like a kind man but his arguments are very flawed and not because I disagree with him but because they do not make any sense, most of them.
Zaveid lol
+Larry Jake Native African Americans were famously fast runners. He thought it might have been something to do with that. It was an odd presumption but ThunderF00t is an odd name
9.37 'We can't make cheese' - Ray Comfort
Where does he think cheeses comes from? Cheese is made by people. Blessed are the cheesemakers, for goodness sake.
Love the MP ref
@@drfreddave9020 Well obviously it's not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
@@alheeley errr ok
@@drfreddave9020 Have you not seen the clip from life of brian?! :D
czcams.com/video/-xLUEMj6cwA/video.html
Cheese is the end product. Who made the ingredients and who made the ingredient maker? You people think in such basic rudimentary terms, it's hilarious.
I don't know if I can watch this whole series, because it's just thunderf00t trying to teach a man that doesn't want to learn.
when he speaks right lol and saying space came with out creation maybe is a huge blind faith jump....
+animetrickerd I know I can't stand it haha. When any of these discussions get far enough, they always hit the bedrock of "the bible is right because God said so, because God said the bible is right." There's just no logic to anything this guy thinks.
Undoubtfully most Greeks (the plebs) and also people in the Medieval period would think the earth is flat or appearing it to be flat though.
uneducated folk thought the earth was flat but the circumference of the earth was worked 4000 years ago
+Ant R I don't think it was 4000 years ago....... that was before Jesus was supposedly born, way, way before then
Ray Comfort: In one ear, out the other.
You forgot a step: In one ear, through a space which would (in other people) be occupied by a brain, out the other ear.
crocdoc2 I thought one one better: In one ear, into a black hole that used to occupy the space of a brain...any information is destroyed forever.
crocdoc2 I think that might be why he insists on repeating the same five arguments over and over...for the past DECADE....without modifying his argument.
In one ear then digested and it comes out as shit.
Jonathan Biohoo In one ear, sucked into a black hole, the energy of that signal that should be transmitted to the brain breaks down as reality collapses, reconstitutes as a banana, comes out as dumb theories
What's the worst part of Ray Comfort is that he's either 1 of 2 things. 1 - He's an idiot, who just doesn't understand the basics of science and wants to stay ignorant.
2 - He's being purposely deceitful and has been explained evolution but continues to misrepresent it.
I go with 2. It's been explained to him many, many times. He goes on some show, argues with a scientist, has evolution explained to him and how he's misrepresenting it, then turns around and goes on some Christian show and continues to say the same things.
That shows me he's just a liar, and it's amazing to me how religious people who preach truth, righteousness and morality, lie and deceive on purpose to preach their beliefs.
***** watch baud bits channel and i think you will have your answer, baud bits traces comforts money; comfort plays the fool because he is bringing in millions $$$$.
***** 1 + 2 = 3
All of the above.....Ray is an idiot and wants to stay ignorant. He is also a liar since he claims that he's never heard basic scientific facts that have been explained to him many many times. Ray is afraid of information. He's content with his hyper-simplistic 'god did it' mantra and the thought of bringing anything more complex into his brain simply terrifies him.
+Brammy007a Hes not afraid of info, Hes against it. These people know damn well there full of shit, But if your bank account was padded by the fears of the dying and weak you would wanna stay true to your bullshit as well.
I agree completely. I would argue Ken Ham is sincierly a fool. How is it someone who still looks half caveman denies evolution?
+MrKylecardinal >>>>>>>> How is it someone who still looks half caveman denies evolution?.......................... HAAA!... and I thought I was the only one who noticed that!
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality."
- George Bernard Shaw
Gee thunderf00t sure does stutter a lot. And I love it. He puts a lot of thought into what he's saing and tries to put it all in the clearest words possible.
Meanwhile Ray Comfort - not even a second of thinking throughout the entire video.
+ Wojciech Jankowski
That`s because Ray Cumfart works from a script and will never deviate whereas Thunderfoot considers his position and responses before speaking. Ray and his cronies are fucked when you derail them from their script , they start to stutter and panic.XD
well, it's nice to see two grown ass men actually sit down and have a conversation like smart, mature, ethical and logical people, and not whiny accusing babies, this gives me hope for the world
So rays logic is that saying we don't know, is a cope out, but saying god did it isn't a cope out?
+PirateShark That's because saying 'god did it' is *so much better* as an explanation. Any moron can see that it clearly makes sooo much more sense. 'god did it' is the best reason ever because you can apply it to anything you don't know about, i.e. Why 'X'? because god, that's why! Wow now I know.
DJR That's true, I can clearly see the logic and reasoning used in this argument.
after watching that westboro "Debate" I'm happy to see ray comfort being civilized and respectful.
+Alberto Balsalm Agreed...most atheists are like that too
+Alberto Balsalm You seriously have to check your sense of humour and satire, the way I experienced Thunder00t is a determined, logics-loving and most importantly, never vengeful in a way I would describe being deserved by most recipients, BUT he sometimes lacks a little bit of this fine-tuning of his meanings, which I think result from him being very direct and having an attitude of being used to say what is true and correct, like the one time he was called a "Nazi-denialist" for a four year old comment in which he stated, in capital letters, that he fully acknowledges/understands that the holocaust was an utterly inhumane, unforgivable singular act in history, but then uses the expression, that hasn't shed a tear for any of the six million jews killed, which the guy who then called him a "nazi-denialist" misunderstands, while ignoring the part of the comment where TF is stating he sees it as an utterly inhumane act, while taking the hasn't shed a tear as a metaphor, while TF meant it literally, that he simply hasn't cried about it, like most people who weren't alive during that time and jewish/roma etc.
That's simply straight out honesty, I mean many people would say they could cry every night about it, but is it really that bad to be honest, especially about stuff like feelings, for which never ever one has to produce an excuse, at least I don't know of anyone having the control over his feelings.
I simply think he is mostly misunderstood by religious folks etc.
They always seem to think he wants to ridicule religion only for some cheap lulz, but I think he always wants to deliver a point, just as he states here, that knowledge can be lost if people will rather belief in things who cannot be disproven e.g., are infaillable, and therefore not scientfically of any worth... Mr. Comfort agrees, that knowledge IS the thing that makes us different from people from the stone age, just as anyone else.
Even if you believe that only a belief in god can make a good scientist, I don't know of any scientist, who said he had the solution after a prayer, NO, it's hard work, not simply a talk with "god" or whatever you wanna call that unproven being...
Also, even if he sometimes is offensive, his adversaries mostly, if not all, are much worse in that regard, threatening physical violence for example, (HannibalTheVictor13) or giving all the Muslim students of his University his personal adress and name etc (DawahFilms).
And on the other hand, ONLY being offensive isn't an argument and isn't really as bad as some people take it, "I find that offensive", as if these word would constitute an argument, you cannot disprove someone being incorrect simply ecause he/she is rude, not that TF really is that, not at all in comparison what you find on the Internet...
The fact that you don't agree with me, question my authority and wrote 'explain' with a lowercase 'e', offends me. You're arrogant and insulting. I win.
TMI.
Too bad hell doesn't exist.
biggest thing to notice right from the get go: ray comfort needs notes, thunderf00t is too badass for notes =)
If you understand your own point of view there is no need for notes. I normally go into meetings without notes as i decide what to say at the time, rather than trying to guess questions that may be asked, or ask questions that may be irrelevant based on the direction of the conversation. Only thing i occasionally use notes for is to make up for my terrible memory and to prevent me being distracted by things that are brought up.
If Ray had his way he would drag us into another dark age. Debating and fighting idiots like him is very important.
Debating them does nothing to them. This guy has had the same arguments on his face for decades and still tries to pull out that lame argument of creation needs a creator -_-. I agree with Dusty. Mockery seems to work better
Sebastian Villa Or not giving them air time. Silence treatment and not debating with them as if their position is held as equal in a discussion about science. BTW nice job Bill Nye
Sebastian Villa I don't think that the point of debating people like Ray Comfort is about trying to change his mind about things. Like you said, he has had the evidence before him for years and nothing has happened. But these debates can and will shed light to the ridiculous concepts that people like Comfort propose and perhaps, just perhaps people who are watching these, people who are not yet at the deep end with Comfort but aren't either at the other end of the spectrum with the scientific consensus, might see the situation, see the evidence laid down before them and avoid the trap of the
theism and wishful thinking.
Sebastian Villa Even if it doesn't change HIS viewpoint, if you publicly debunk and humiliate him you could be stopping his rubbish from infecting youths or the uniformed adults who are undecided. Never EVER stop the fight for truth!
Ray Comforts arguments fell so flat, and were so mundane, it was obvious he had stopped listening at the very beginning, even as he was asking Thunderf00t the first questions.
Comfort can't publicly spout this crap for too much longer. He just looks too stupid.
Wtf african american ancestors?
Ray Comfort is a creationist and therefore does not believe that Caucasians like all groups are the descendants of sub-Saharan Africans. So, he was basically saying to Thunderf00t "Did you give yourself an African name to drive home the point that we are all descendants of Africans?"
2 minutes in and Ray Comfort has already proven he is an idiot....That has to be some sort of record.
+Mr Jee why do you think ThunderfOOt agreed to this, lol? Exactly because Comfort is utterly woeful as a debater, particularly where science is concerned. I thought it interesting that ThunderfOOt totally ignored the latest cosmological evidence for a starting point for the universe. ("mankind does not know" , I think the cosmology and quantum mechanics community would strongly disagree) Also, he seems to think that "science" is the one infallible human endeavor, not subject to the foils of humans (i.e. his discussion on dictators and the progression of knowledge). This is comical. Science is only as intellectually honest and good as the scientists practicing it. This has remained the case, unchanged, throughout the ages. Note I am NOT saying that knowledge hasn't increased. Only that a consensus of opinion or thought in the scientific community can be a double edged sword.
+Christon Shepard While I hesitate to call him an idiot, he is clearly heavily biased against TF. This shapes up within a very short period of time as more of a soft interrogation rather than a discussion.
"Why the name thunderfoot, african-american/ancestors?" - invokes potential racial divisions
"Stomping on Christians" - Needlessly emphasizes religious conflict
"Why are you godless" - Negative connotations of 'godless' vs. atheist or even non-believer, purposefully confrontational
"I know what was in the beginning" - arrogance, no he doesn't know, he has faith that what the Bible tells him is correct.
As for 'latest cosmological evidence, this video was posted over five years ago. Was that evidence available then?
Christon Shepard Scientists would be the first to say that science isn´t infallible. When science fails to prove something they try again until different results point to a conclusion. A conclusion that might not be 100% accurate but the closest thing to a point.
What Ray does is chuck it all out and say because something cannot be proven 100% then his answer is correct. Which is of course nonsense.
I wouldn´t say that TF is the most skillful debater but no sane person could last long with Ray Comfort without getting frustrated and in that regard I am very impressed with his efforts.
Alberto Balsalm
Not at all. I listen to a person and judge by what they are saying and how they are acting.
But yeah, it depends I guess. If someone genuinly believed children were going to burn forever for one little lie they told that one time then I would most definately call them an idiot too.
+Alberto Balsalm You know calling people who were smarter than you and way more useful than you and all the time/money wasting religions makes you look dumb.
I love how Ray starts thinking "GOTCHA!" when TF says the origin of the universe is an unknown.
at least Ray Cumfart couldn't use his trademark jump cuts and careful editing to change what was actually said, like in all his other videos
Luckily this one wasn't his video
Thunderf00t, I am sure you are a nice man, but why must you subject your loyal subscribers to such a torture as to listen to Ray Comfort?
Ray Comfort: "You don't know, I know" As soon as someone says that debating them is pointless.
"We can't make cheese or butter" -Ray Comfort
+ledhead504 LMFAO when the actual truth is those are things we actually make, they do not occur naturally.
Wait a minute he said recreate as in we can't make them from nothing. So he's right in that sense.
clariece cameron Yeah but milk and cheese are things that just exist in nature. Granted the individual components of them we can't create from nothing is true, cheese and milk are products we made.
And it is meaningless to say we can't create cheese or milk from nothing since those products do not even exist at all until we made them.
I'd like to see you make milk from nothing (no homo)
How does he stay so calm? If someone told me "I know what happened in the beginning, you don't, God created earth" I would fucking freak out.
joshua barnes He does seem to have that passive aggressive nature to him, you're totally spot on about him reaching for a reaction. Fortunately Thunderf00t is a great image for atheism and doesn't play childish tactics like the guy with the 80's porn-mustache. lol
Sounds like Ray wants to believe in God so he can call his ignorance something like knowledge.
Nope. Ray sounds extremely intelligent, you are the one who sounds ignorant here.
People did not believe the Earth was flat a couple hundred of years ago. For at least 2500 years it has been known to be round.
Which one of the greeks was it? Cant remember the name..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
The E man calculated the circumference of the Earth, but they knew it was round before that of course. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth
Joe Keenan
Yeah that must be the one.
Too bad all knowledge before the 8th century bc was lost..
I don't know about lost, it's tough to preserve "books" because of their fragility. But knowledge is passed on somehow. Lots has been lost to the sands of time though.
God this is painful
Thank you, ThunderF00t! You are incredibly patient and polite - I don't know whether I could be the same in such debate.
Ha, "so you believe we came from nothing" just like your god came from nothing LOL
Oh,your god didn't came from nothing,he created himself,because it makes sense.
+k'ser oneia Do you think God is eternal ?
@@ricks.6690 how can anyone create himself? Like really how?
smh The bible says God is without a beginning or an end in other words eternal. at least we are logical
@@broskichannel4163 how is that claim in any way logical? It's an excuse, nothing more.
Come on guys, 2009? Can't we get better microphones?
DEMS WAS DA MICRO-PHONS WHAT GOD JESUS PROPHESIED IN THE HOLY BIBLE. IF'N DEY IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR JESUS DEY IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU SINNER!
Even the Catholic church believes in evolution and the big bang. I think the universe grows and then collapses on itself like a star turning into a black hole starting the big bang all over again forever.
Super interesting thought.
I really sympathize with you, I cannot imagine how frustrating it must be to try and converse with people who don't seem to understand the meaning of the words you are saying, and then they extrapolate an argument based off their own reinterpretation of what you have literally just said to them.
Can you make a video talking about the booklet "The origin of life: Five Questions Worth Asking" ? That would be awesome to see!
Great conversation!!! Watched all 9 vids. :D Good job to both of you for staying composed and respectful to each other. Never mind who I agree with.
First off ray makes the statement rational discussion between two opposing world views, then he deflects to thunderfoots name choice. It's 2014 but there is something to learn here don't let ray gish gallop like a passive aggressive personality. Don't let him change the topic of his own accord. Is this a rational discussion or a polite one?religion is not rational it is faith based. Is atheism a worldview? No it isn't. There is the entire conversation do not let up until Ray admits that rationally atheism isn't a world view but that ray's religion uses strawman arguments as the world view of atheists. Ray wins this discussion by making TF look confused and unsure while lowing him to make knowledge claims that are irrational.
You are absolutely right. And more what is the point in discussing anything with this man and others like him. They only want to confuse and make reason and logic appear like a belief or faith. He knows science in know a point of view. Ray is a sick man. Stay way.
Has anyone combined these parts into a single video? I always love watching a series like this only to discover I can't find some later parts.
OH NO!! Ray comes from NZ. I feel shame that this guy is a 'representative' for us! Actually NZ is a rather secular country, and it won't be long until the census shows that there are more people in NZ that are non-religious than there are that are religious
Alright I'm writing this as I begin my journey into this video. Will I make it out alive?
Powerful Thunderf00t ! Fighting the good fight !
I was looking forward to listening to this. However the audio quality is so bad that I cannot understand what is being said. Too much background noise.
Good luck on your test. Can you recommend any books for laymen on QM? I find it very interesting but my background is in archaeology, not physics.
Makes me feel bad for coming from New Zealand... We are not this bad, I promise
+Dan Lay No worries. It's not nearly as embarrassing as being from America. We export 95% of these loonies.
Up is not down its jusf a story of a mythological beings capturing a big ass fish and decided to say it was up side down. But you probably already knew that.
1.Thunderfoot says something intelligent
2. Comfort fails to understand.
3. Return to 1.
Hey thunderf00t, were those papers ray was holding a list of his tired old arguments?
The sound should be easy to fix. Get the soundtrack from the video, put it into audacity and use the noise removal effect. Then you can replace the sound and get excellent sound. Might even be possible to do with the youtube editor without having to reupload the video.
We should be happy that people like Mr. Comfort exist. It should serve as motivation to learn, to be rational and logical, to find answers and to not be like him.
couldn't have said it any better! It's very sad that ppl like him exist.
I love both of these men, I'm glad I could see them arguing politely. Many of the comments however, are full of non-arguments which usually mock these men. Remember this, mocking a viewpoint does more to keep people from the truth; if you have compassion for someone, you will try to win them over to your side with reason.
Your comment sucks and I hate you
I am just on the first episode and already I know that the approach of Ray Comfort is not among one of my favourites. I am wonder if there is any chance of a similar debate/talk with Jordan Peterson. I am sure that would be very appreciated for both types of audience. BTW, I do appreciate most of your videos besides having a different world view.
QUESTION: Which important and fundamental question did all of mankind believe was true since the time of the great Greek philosophers, which was only proven to be entirely false in 1938 Germany? If I receive enough responses, I'll post the correct answer.
I can't watch this. You must wait cancer..
Science has questions that may never be answered. Religion has answers that may never be questioned
Or maybe they just have questions that have been asked for millennia with no answers so far. Which gives them certain reverance
Your silly little play on words isn’t accurate and does nothing more than try to impress with paradox
Disturbed0ne Sectioned is a term for being involuntarily committed to a hospital for having a severe medical illness.
It always gets me how this topic is something where both sides will look at the same bit of footage and say "my guy done good there, we handedly won this argument". You just know Ray Comf's peeps are sitting there at home going "haha you got him to admit he didn't know something" whereas any rational person always works from the unknown until they can determine something to be fact.
I'm a sort of semi-reluctant agnostic (atheist with commitment issues probably sums it up equally well) and I think I kind of do want it all to be true just for my mum (because she has a strong faith) but that being said, creationists and evangelicals annoy the hell out of me. I always think for supposed Christians they give off so much hate that if there was a God determining who was getting in and who wasn't there isn't a snowball's chance he'll turn down the humanist who happens to not believe in a God but let in the Christian bigot who has only ever forced good deeds to hedge their bets on the side of eternal paradise.
Thunderf00t hit the nail on the head right at the beginning. Each to their own in the privacy of their home. You don't find (too many) atheists posting online blogs or vlogs spewing actual hate and vilification of entire religions (maybe towards a specific individual if their actions justify it). Instead, it's always the so-called 'Christian' that's really goes off against entire groups.
Luckily it's mostly just American Christianity that has become so hateful and corrupted and doesn't often affect me. It's beyond me how these so-called 'Christians' can be for the death penalty (despite the disturbingly high rate of exonerations, and even more worrying how it doesn't seem to matter since the wrongful convictions seem to disproportionately affect black men), or force a woman to carry a foetus she knows will have no quality of life due to either congenital illness / disability / social circumstances, or be insanely pro-gun (where a pistol for self-defence isn't enough and fully automatic assault rifles are a supposed necessity) as well as the bizarre, associated bloodlust that has become entangled with defending that right (the second amendment), where these people seem to relish the prospect of going to war against the government and presumably enjoy the slaughter that would go along with that, or how it's these same people regularly supporting laws making discrimination against specific groups of people entirely acceptable (which amounts to legislated hatred), or how it's these same Christians that want to deny free and widely accessible healthcare to everyone and insult their dignity in the process by telling them it's not affordable even though pretty much all of Europe has been able to do it for decades and an entirely free American health service could probably be funded by forcing the Pentagon to be more transparent and less wasteful or maybe even by fund it by resolving to drop bombs in one less country than the year before. And that's another thing. It's these same Christians that'll say insane things like "we need to carpet bomb the hell out of Iraq and Syria" regardless of whether they have any clue who is actually on the ground at the time. So many of them are so hateful and hypocritical that I honestly think sometimes there was a queue and if God was letting these people in, I'd think, you know what, I'm not sure this is for me. Eternal damnation isn't my thing either so can I hang out in purgatory and spend all of eternity meeting all sorts of people I wouldn'tve met otherwise? Or go back as a ghost? Maybe that's what ghosts are... Decent people, many Christians and many non-Christians at the gates of heaven and seeing hoardes of Christians-in-name-only getting in and thinking this is kind of stupid. Hmm. I'm behaving like a creationist now. Next I'll be spinning a tale about how ghosts are what I have already described above BUT poltergeists are the damned people got wiped out in the flood and that's why why there aren't that many of them and why many of their 'pranks' (for want of a better term) involve flooding your house or scalding your by turning off the cold water supply on a mixer tap. It's always the flood with you people. Whatever it is, it's always the flood.
Oh my goodness.. I am a Christian and this is just terrible. LLOLOL
It must be hard listening to a representative of your religion claim that we can't make cheese or butter
Everyday i wake up in the middle of the night from a terrifying nightmare, each night i dream that Ray Comfort is somehow related to me and I am going to church every sunday. I fear for my life. I've only ever been to church twice and had to walk out within 10 minutes because it was so boring. please, don't make me go to church every sunday.
I went from watching: Thunderf00t -Westboro Baptist Church (full interview)
to watching this... Yelling and screaming, to a quiet discussion.
I just have to say, Thunderf00t, I am so impressed with you. I already knew you spoke with eloquently and intelligently, but you also are so patient with someone you disagree with. You are doing better than I could do. Thank you for the wonderful example.
Thunderf00t is being so humble. He is obviously "winning" since the very first topic and even so he keeps on being kind and listening. I must learn to be that respectful. Thank you for the video.
I had to reread this a few times to understand what you said but good job!
"Scroll back a few hundred years ago and people thought the earth was flat." First of all no. People figured out the earth was somewhat spherical for closer to 2500 years. Good old Greeks. Funnily enough, though it's 2018 now and people somehow think the earth is flat. Mind boggling.
I'm looking for a creationist or ID exponent to answer this question: What's the point of the appendix?
you should try using the cc button. Its rarely completely accurate but it helps. I am hard of hearing so i do use it from time to time
this feels like its Rays interview. im going to assume here.
1) they are on his youtube channel
2) you cannot comment or rate on his channel
So if we would assume that everything happens at some point everything would be correct, right?
How is it a cop out to say we don't know how the universe got here?, it's the truth. Saying that god created it is the cop out as that's the easy way out (and unproven) just because we don't know the answer. Because they think they know, they are satisfied and don't look any further into it. It's no wonder why the majority of believers are uneducated as they lack critical thinking and logic and a basic understanding of the universe. They need to be told what to think rather than think for themselves.
Where did these amino acids come from?
Ray just cannot wrap his mind around science. I am beginning to see a pattern here.
Whenever I see Ray Comfort contemplating something, I get the feeling that his head is just playing ice cream truck music.
Many religious people I talk to think that rhose who they don't know everything are weak in their arguments. Is that a good aegument?
did thounderfoot play quake or unreal?? btw great debate
link to that?
Why is the only thing I can think of when I watch this that one line from the doom comic "RIP AND TEAR!"?
Saying we "don't know" isn't a cop-out, it's an acceptance of the fact that we don't know. Us not knowing isn't proof of Ray's beliefs. If you don't know something you do research to find the truth, you don't just accept the first half-baked explanation somebody gives you.
What is the word he says at 1:19
P.E.A.R.L.ist
Physical Evidence And Reasoned Logic
Why is it that the Christian "God" is the answer to creation? Why isn't that another "God" may have created the universe? So arrogant, all religions!
The synopsis:
On the left: A man who is comfortable with not knowing and yet knows so much.
On the right: A man who is uncomfortable with not knowing yet knows so little.
Food for thought.
I'm wondering if Thunderfoot would join this discussion: Is Church Harmful? | Dave Silverman, Eric Hovind, Sye Ten Bruggencate
Can you add subs pls?, my English is not that good, and i can't hear you well.
As wrong as Ray is, I highly respect his respect of Thunderf00t, by letting him speak and not interjecting like the Westboro Baptist Church did.
Still waiting for you to define "kinds". How many dozens of times will I have to ask?
Ray is from New Zealand? This is new to me
I like the way Ray sees saying 'I don't know' as a weakness.
this is like the "i don't know, so aliens" meme lol. but now its like "science doesn't know for sure, so I know because god"
At the beginning of the video what does Thunderf00t say he is? He said he wasn't an atheist, but he was a...
PEARList
+Jeffrey Dumaplin Thanks, I was wondering the same thing as Moomin Josh. So, PEARList is: Physical Evidence And Reasoned Logic, ok cool. I totally agree
10:20 Thunderfoot wondering how he can be part of the same species as Ray...haha
Phil, I want you to know, but I too have been in the Lions den and it's no fun. The stupidity and the unmitigated gall of the creationists are enough to make a science-based human more than a little bit upset. I think back to when I was 13 years old and my best friend asked if I would like to go to church with him. In all honesty I didn't want to do anything like going to church, but, just text Cheryl that I was not having any ill feelings about his needs towards Christianity. I found myself in the biggest Baptist church in San Antonio and being dragged down to the altar to be saved against my will. Needless to say, this did not endear any form of organized religion to me.
I think you did a pretty good job. Keep showing up and remember that life is what you make of it. And you my friend are doing more with your science than any 5000 Christians waiting in line to be raptured.
Bill from tx
Why do you do a test when already know the result?
After scientists discovered amino acids on asteroids and comets, they came up with the idea of "Panspermia", wherein foreign bodies (which were striking the early Earth in a torrent) could have contaminated Earth with amino acids.
To test this, they placed an amino acid solution into what is essentially a massive air-gun and fired them into a solid object with the same force of an asteroid. Upon doing so, they found that the amino acids remained intact, thus
Ray comfort - indeed , when one thinks of this man the words ‘Jesus Christ’ certainly comes to mind -or more accurately’ Jesus fucking Christ’ !
Are they playing footsie with each other?
Ray Comfort "New Zealand , where I come from" I personally am glad he left. Newton's laws still work here.
You can use (at least some parts of) this in your videos: Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.
I love respectful discussions like these.
I’m glad thunderfoot gave Ray an opportunity to explain his theory rather then shutting him down. When you try and shut someone down you remain ignorant in your narrow minded beliefs without exploring other views, whether or not you believe doesn’t matter, real communication starts with the hard questions, irrespective of one’s belief having a dialogue makes us improve.
Any sources?
How can there be a symphony without a composer?
How can there be a composer without a teacher/trainer? Infinite regress..whoever taught the composer must have had a teacher who had a teacher who had a teacher etc etc
We cant make cheese or butter?
Can the dark ages really be used as a point? Things have changed since then. Horrible time of course back then, but to hold a grudge? Hmm. Idk.
Excellent argument, and a perfect suggestion to have a great discussion.
Christ Church, New Zealand?
When this video started, I thought he seemed strangely respectful. Around the two minute mark, I changed that thought.