Can you afford Portugal?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- This video runs through the monthly costs to live in Portugal. I have broken it out over a 4 year period. Whether you are going to live in Lisbon, Porto, the Algarve, the Azores, or Madeira, this is an accurate assessment of cost.
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Amazing! You thanked the viewers for watching, but it is us who should thank you for your very informative and helpful videos. Muito Obrigada!!
I'm happy that people get something from the videos.
Thanks for sharing. One thing I have realized is we never shared our cost of living in the US broken down so I had no idea how we compared. Now in Portugal I know where we stand compared to other. When people say you can live for 3k in Lisbon I never agreed but that is because we spend a lot more on food, rent and leisure. We've also not included travel in our budget since that is a business expense, but its a big number not to far from our rent.
Thanks so much for your comment! Love your channel and what you two do. Starting in 2023, our travel will become a biz expense too. We are fortunate to have a fairly low mortgage payment. For many of our friends, they spend 2x on rent, and easily 100-200 euros more per month on food.
Hi Joric, great video. The biggest difference we have from your budget is in the Food category. I can't wrap my head around only spending 440/mo on groceries AND restaurants!! For two people, we spend roughly 400 on groceries alone, and another 750 on restaurants. Perhaps it's the wine...🤔🤣
It could be the wine! We have averaged 200-225 per month for groceries. We tend to buy the same things and make similar foods. This does include buying wine, but we get a lot of the 2.99-2.99 bottles. We do more dinners at home, and lunches out. So going out, it's 15-18 euros total for lunch. We do that a couple of times a week. Sometimes when we do dinner, we do it with friends and order food for everyone, so we don't spend as much as if we were going out as a couple often.
I was thinking the same thing as KA. I eat for two so I'm budgeting 300 for groceries and another 300 for eating out when I eventually move to Portugal in a couple of years. 😎
@@davidmartinspresents I can eat for two once in a while! We mostly eat in. We are creatures of habit and end up purchasing the same things most weeks. We bought a week's worth of groceries in March for 42 euros. For fun, I bought the exact same items while back in Phoenix in March. Same amount and kid of bananas, apples, tomatoes, lettuce, the same weight of chicken breasts, you get the idea. That cost was 77 euros (when converting USD). As a follow-up to my cost of living video, a new video will post tomorrow on a trip to the most common grocery store chain in Portugal. You can stop and start the video to write down prices and see how a trip would compare to what you are buying at the moment.
@@jmcstravels Great, thank you for the information. 👍
Glad we aren't the only ones. My food budget is closer to yours. But we eat out a lot.
Thank you for this excellent and informative content. It is much appreciated!
Thank you so much!
Great video! This is helpful with our move
Thanks Joric. Exactly what I wanted. I think everyone is a bit nervous about the cost of living in a new country. BTW the sound is good.
Glad you liked the video and the audio was good. I'm going to keep making videos with my earbuds to try and keep the quality good and consistent.
As always very detailed. Appreciate the videos.
Thank you. I will say, eating out on the other side of Lisbon (Almada, Seixal, Barreiro) is cheaper than on our side. You should be able to eat out a bit more often than we do, and still save money.
Thanks for sharing your insights and time, helpfull video!
You are welcome.
very informative !!
Thank You!
Hi Joric, just discovered your channel. I like your forthright dispensing of good info, thank you. I did not see any mention of the misc. "legal" costs that come up annually, such as tax preparation in two countries and any needs for additional law services...which I hope do not come up much after getting past the purchase of property and immigration requirements. I might guess that tax prep may add around €600-700 annually and maybe financial services such as Bank account fees, fund wiring, etc. Some folks may have found ways around those fees, but we are paying a monthly fee for our account at this point and Wise has some fees to move money around.
We have not made the move there yet. I'll engage in a Joric video fest now and subcribe!
Thanks so much for finding me and I hope the information you find will be useful. We do our own Portugal taxes, but we pay about $650 USD (depending on complexity) for US tax prep. For bank transfers, many people use WISE, but we prefer XE.
Thank you for sharing the financial expenses. It is very helpful. Would you mind have another video on anything about mortgage such as how to qualify, interest rate, property tax percentage, what mortgage company, process of getting the mortgage etc?
Take a look through my videos. I did a video a couple of months ago on mortgages in Portugal.
Great video
I like your informative videos
Thank You.
Thank you for this information. As a guide it is good. However, you have quite high outgoings, due to many extras, like you describe, ie Internet, Netflix etc. These could be less, for someone on a smaller budget of course.
The average Portuguese person would not have such a high standard of living. Generally, the overall picture is pretty good in Portugal, ie low healthcare costs, dentists, vets fees and food. (If you buy fresh and not processed/imports).
I very much liked your tip on purchasing if you can, you have an incredibly low housing cost, Mortgage, for an amazing location. Recently rents in Portugal are starting to skyrocket, (even beginning to match ours in the UK), in central locations. However, there is a housing crisis/crash coming, with many surplus houses out of the central locations, sitting empty - so likely properties will become cheaper out of these areas. Thank you, best wishes, Joric X:)
Thank you for the comment. We spend more on some items, but when we retire, we will be cutting back in a few areas. I also think there is a housing bubble forming in Lisbon. Things are too high and few people can afford the rent or mortgage.
Hi Joric just came across you channel and it's very informative.
Any ideas of outer Lisbon neighbourhoods that are quite culturally diverse and where rent is more affordable than Lisbon centre. Thanks
Hi Joric,so lovely to watch all your video ,wonderful and detail information that you give out,just wondering about air travel to Portugal from Canada ,what is the Covid restriction to enter Portugal now and what kind of requirements still in place?Im planning to visit Lisbon and Barcelona in October,is it good time to travel and Spain has similar requirements for Covid ?I appreciate if you can give me update
The only thing left in Portugal is you have to still wear masks on public transportation. All other requirements are gone. Portugal and Spain in October will be great weather. You might encounter some rain in Portugal, depending on where you visit. You do have to be vaxxed or show negative test to get into Spain.
Totally agree...As we started looking to move we noticed rents had skyrocketed compared to a year ago and it was WAY more affordable to buy and have a mortgage...Of course that depends if you have the capital and can get a loan! We totally went fixed and feel so good that our future is secure!! In addition, we bought a house and our mortgage is a third of the rent we'd pay!! I feel inflation a little here, but nothing compared to the US!! Your expenses all seem reasonable except for travel, but if you can afford it and want it in your budget...Go for it!!! All good!!!
Our travel budget is big. It is part of a business we are starting, so it will likely be much bigger than most others who move to Portugal.
I understand and would never slight you for wanting to budget money for travel!!😉
Hi Tamara. Have you moved out of Avenida Novas? 😲 I always considered you to be the unofficial major of AN. 😁 We’ll visit in September and other nearby Lisbon neighborhoods. All the best to you at your new place. -maurice
Yes...I sure was and loved it there! Problem was affordability for what we needed. We started looking to rent a bigger apartment, but for a 2-3BR it was just out of our price range and we were tired of paying storage! When we first moved I felt so nostalgic and a little apprehensive, but we made the right decision...Torres Vedras is not Lisbon center, but beautiful and close enough!! I TOTALLY recommend Avenidas Novas though!! Good luck on your search anx your move! ❤Portugal...All of it!!!
@@tamaramadelin4831 Understood. We gotta do what we gotta do I suppose. All the best.
Hi J: I’d been curious if you had a car or not. Glad to hear it’s a No. . But not needing one I guess it depends on the area one lives within the greater Lisbon region. Thanks 🙏
If you are on the outskirts of the city/rural areas, you really need to contemplate getting a car. If the area you settle in has train or a bus lines to central Lisbon, than I think you can be ok without a vehicle.
As usual great informative video. One thing I have to ask is the mortgage portion does that include property tax and home owners insurance? Is that a separate monthly expense? It would be good to get an idea on that, coming from the US we have ours cover mortgage property tax and insurance. Thank you.
Those costs are wrapped up in the mortgage number I provided. If we were renting this place, or, if we put a smaller amount down for the mortgage, we would be paying 1,645-2,000 a month in rent/tax/ins/buildingfees.
Thanks Joric. Great breakout of costs... One item I see missing is taxes. I'm an American expat living in the Algarve. I have to pay taxes in the USA and I participate in the 2020 Non Habitual Residence tax program and I'm subject to Portuguese tax at 10%. I own my home and also pay real estate taxes here in the Algarve. My costs for just Portugal for the last 2 years for taxes runs about 405 Euros/Month. I'm single and have a car and travel a lot and my overall Algarve PT cost of living in Portugal ran 2400 Euros a month (excluding USA taxes) - significantly lower than my cost of living in Palm Beach County, FL. 😀
Great information and thank you for sharing! I did not feel comfortable disclosing tax information, which is why I omitted it, but, you are spot on as it has to be something all of us from the US consider when making a move.
Thank you for the update on the cost of living Joric. Just to confirm are the costs for two persons? Do the travel costs only include airfare or do they include hotel costs too? They seem very low if they include hotel stays.
It is for two people. Airfare is a fraction of what it is in the US, as are hotel costs. We either do VRBO and find the best deals or, use a particular brand of the hotel to get points and reduced fees for future stays. Our vacations in and around Europe are usually based on cost. Where are destinations with cheap flights, and deals on accommodations?
Thanks Joric for another informative and useful video. 🙏🏻 Two minor questions. (1) Food Cost. Have you found food prices increased at the farmer markets to be on par with those increases at the supermarket? (3) Taxis. Do you have any preference Uber vs Bolt? Just curious. Cheers. 👋🏻
A big farmer's markets (Time Out, Campo do Ourique) I have not seen much of a change. Some prices are the same as 2019, but at smaller Saturday only or pop up markets, the prices in some cases have doubled for the same goods or produce. For Taxis, we tend to do Bolt. Usually cheaper and not as many "completing a nearby trip" delays as with Uber.
@@jmcstravels Got it. Thanks. 🙏🏻
Hello, to get a sense of the purchasing and down payment how much was the cost of the apartment you purchased? You mentioned 60% down? To get to that cost of the mortgage you mentioned on your video?
Thanks so much for the question I am not going to disclose the sale price of our apartment, but I will say it was less than 350k euros. We did not need to put 60% down. We targeted a mortgage payment of 650 euros or less when looking at Portugal, and 60% down got us to that number. In 2018, foreigners needed 40% down to purchase a property. In speaking to 8 banks this spring, they all said 30% is acceptable for a down payment by foreigners. As you look at properties and if you need a mortgage, factor in what 30% down looks like for the final sales price.
I was surprised at how high the annual costs are. Your annual costs to live in Portugal are close to what my wife and I pay annually to live in the midwest of USA.
Jim, I grew up in Michigan and you are 100% correct. For Lisbon specifically, most of the people we know are from LA, San Fran, NYC, or DC. All high rent/cost of living places, so they feel this is cheap. If moving from the Midwest, I would consider Porto, Madeira, or smaller towns in Portugal as the cost of living would be less than Chicago/Det/Indy/STL/KC, etc.
Also, be aware that, fitness cost is lower in usa, not much travel cost. The pluses to live in Portugal is the quality of food, excellent weather, very safe, the feeling of freedom, nice beaches everywhere. Just not to focus too much on the budget number. My guess.
I have only just discovered your channel, and found this video very interesting. One question: am I right in supposing that you and your spouse are both fluent in Portuguese?
So glad you found me. We are not fluent in Portuguese, but we are continuing to learn the language. I believe we could pass the citizenship test, which requires at least an A2 level of understanding. It is something we work on weekly.
@JoricMcLean Hi Joric - Thanks for the monthly breakout and the comprehensive breakout over 4 years !. One major question though and no one seems to want to answer this. What happens after the NHR period is over for Americans? what are you going to do about the reversion to 35-45% taxes that one would have to pay on capital gains or whatever income one funds their retirement with, in Portugal? Any advice/strategies that you have planned for that. Upvoting you and subscribing.
Great question. I have spoken to 1 couple and 1 single man, both from the US, who are living here post NHR. They did not move back to the US. I am recovering from surgery but hope to make the video for this Sunday. I am going to title it “Life after NHR” or something like that. They had a different situation than most, but I will explain their situation, and then what our plan is if we stay post NHR.
@@jmcstravels Thanks!
Thanks for the video. Do you pay any type of homeowner's insurance? Is that incorporated into your budget? Also, are taxes part of your expenditures-- do you pay US State, US Federal, or Portugal income taxes?
We pay US, State and Portugal taxes. Insurance is part of the mortgage number I list.
@@jmcstravels thanks. how much do your taxes take up from your budget?
I see people give a cost of food with grocery and eating out combined but they do not say how often they eat out. $400 a month but would like to understand the breakdown between grocery and how many times a month is take out or dining out.
We spend 200-225 per month going out for lunches 2 times per week, and dinners 1-2 times per week. The rest is groceries. We cook, so 85% of our meals are at home. With 90% of our friends, they go out for dinner 4-5 nights per week and lunches 3-4 times, so their monthly costs for just going out is $400 or more.
I'm glad Portugal is still an affordable country to live. But what is going on with the airline strikes? I'm planning to visit Portugal in a few weeks and I'm concerned of what will happen when I get there.
We did not research this and did not read this in any articles or see it on videos. Strikes are a way of life in Europe. Plane and Train strikes affect Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, and the UK every summer. It could be just a one-day strike or a series of strikes. We have bookings in Scotland next month and are using trains to get around. They are striking too, and our trip may get canned. I have also realized July and August are the main month's unions target for strikes as they are prime tourist traveling months. When it comes to strikes, you only know a couple of days in advance sometimes. I will keep making videos as strikes continue.
Thank you
I'm looking at the island of Madeira. I'm hoping to pay around 600 for a one bedroom. Do you think this is possible? Not sure if you'd be familiar since you're in Lisbon. I know Lisbon is the most expensive.
That is going to be a tall order. If you look at Idealista and look at properties for rent in Madeira, there are only 2-3 on the island that is 1 bedroom for $600 or less. Go to that site and play around a bit. It also depends on how big the 1 bedroom is. It might be more likely you need to pay $750-$1,000 per month.
In my opinion you are wasting your money on your health insurance. If you go private without insurance you will pay less a year than you are paying now.
Thank you for the comment.
Did you mention the building costs ? Such as levies and IMI ?
Great question. Those are wrapped into the rent/mortgage cost I put in the video.
You have a video for Aveiro ?
I do not have one on Aveiro. Need to go back there and make one some day.
Which part of Portugal would you suggest for someone who is a meat & vegetable eater looking for a small quiet town with great grocery stores & restaurants?
My choice would be Evora. It is the entry into the Alentejo wine region and it is known for some great authentic Portuguese meat dishes. Usually vegetables come on the side. To the north of Lisbon, Torres Vedras, Obidos, and Caldas da Rainhas have some good restaurants and grocery options.
@@jmcstravels Awesome! Thank you :)
Do you have any videos on how you are investing while living in Portugal? Assuming you have a brokerage account.
I don't have any videos on the topic. We do have an account and since we are both still working, we invest pretty heavily in a handful of stocks.
Can you rent 1 bedroom app. out of the center for 600 euros? In Porto.
I think that would be difficult in Porto. Go to idealista Portugal and look for properties in Porto.
Good video but what about insurance and taxes cost??
Great question. I just made a new video discussing how I missed the tax part. Everyone will have different tax liability or credit so I discuss in the new vid, but some years we have received refunds, other years we have owed. Insurance is calculated in my healthcare portion of the video.
your name is joric. there is a local name jorak similar to your name in our area of balochistan. a balochi name jorak. your name is beautiful 😍💕
Thank you so much!
With vaccine mandates, do you need to be vaccinated in order to get a passport to travel there & live there?
I do not know the US rules or other country rules for passports, but I don't believe you need to be vaccinated in order to obtain a passport.
600 + on mortgage is not bad, what's the rate and for how long?
1.5% and another 18 years.
@@jmcstravels what ? is 1 5% per month or annualized? Is it hard for an expat to get a loan? It would be an interesting video to watch if you tell us how you were able to get a loan in Portugal. Thanks
@@CARACAS1 21 year loan at 1.5 percent annualized. I’ve done two videos over last year on how to get a loan. Getting a loan is just like getting one in the US.
@@jmcstravels thanks. I will view those videos.
@@CARACAS1 I will make a newer video for people considering a buy versus rent. Give me a couple of weeks and I will have a brand new one up there!
Great video
Thank you!