How Helena Got Into Daemon's Weirwood Vision (The Connected Magic of ASOIAF)
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- The House of The Dragon Season 2 Finale showed us Helaena Targaryen talking with Daemon Targaryen in the middle of his weirwood vision and it seems she was actually there talking to him. It wasn't just a vision of Helaena it was an actual astral projection of some sort. So how does this magic work in George RR Martin's world? Is she using a glass candle? Moon and Star Magic? Something Else? Has GRRM set these things up to be connected and is that what we are being shown in HOTD?
Weirwoods are like discord servers probably...
And the Rogue Prince just became a mod...
@@wingy200 gods help us all
😂😂😂😂😂
*Writers:* 'Haeleanae's prophecies are cryptic and she doesn't always understand them herself."
*Haeleanae:* "Aemond, you will die at Dogs Eye on the 22nd day of the 5th moon of year 130 after Eggons landing.
Aemond? Surely you meant Almond.
There's been a marked change in her character since her son was murdered. She's been more assertive, less fidgety, and more in-tune with herself. She's also been correct every time she's had a vision. Like when she said Aemond would have to lose an eye in response to him wanting to claim a dragon.
That could mean anything it's just too vague
The Dog's Eye has always been a dangerous place
Halenanay 😂
I think you’re really onto something with the Moon being a magical antenna or amplifier. I really like this
The moon charges the trees and the trees act as capacitors. It's one of the reasons moonless nights are so important.
It’s heavily implied in the books.
I mean, really, it’s not subtle.
Very cool, though.
Too bad the writers definitely didn't think this far about it
@@asimhussain8716 theyve thought of 100x more magic from the books than GOT did yall gotta act grateful at some point jeezus
@@dadshirt6681 grateful at poor attempts at introducing magical elements that GoT didn't bother with? Yeah, no thanks, yall gotta get some standards at some point jeezus
I can't see Helena sacrificing people to feed a glass candle, so I am much more believing in moon magic. She rides Dreamfyre, and I usually associate dreaming with sleep/night time.
It seems all the different magic types have colors like Green seeing, White walkers (moon being white too, in your examples), and blood Red tree sap.
We don't know if glass candle communication would require blood. The unused excerpt that talks about it suggests to me that using a glass candle to extend life would require blood. If my interpretation is correct Helaena wouldn't need to sacrifice anyone. I agree that doing so would be out-of-character for her.
Providing a candle blood doesn't necessarily constitute having to kill someone! It's the blood likely needed to power it not the life of the person.
I think in a prior video he goes over older writings where George writes of binding oneself to candles and that it's possible there is a candle burning within Mel. Hence her feeling the fire and pain with in and how it's transforming her. She could have internal bleeding. She is not dead yet the little bit of blood from cuts like how maesters cut their hands when attempting to light the candles I would think is enough. Killing someone seems a waste of the resource. if a certain type of blood is needed. You would want that person to keep producing blood. So you can keep supplying the the candle. Just my thought that something like that wouldn't necessarily mean you have to kill someone!
Now waking a stone dragon sure that makes sense giving the life force of one person to reawaken the life in the other form makes alot more sense.
I am not sure if you have red the Elric of Melnibone series. Imrryr The Dreaming City. I think George was heavily influence by this series. The Dragons in it sleep for centeruries and need to be woken up. Dreams in Elric series are tangential to the waking world. In one of the dreams a women gets pregnant and brings a pearl into reality.
Anyway I'll stop rambling now!
She wouldn't have to be the one caring for tje glass candles as the Pyromancer Guild is very active in this era. So, who knows?
I'm glad someone is actually talking about this. Galena showing up in the weirwood net was the biggest mind blower of the season.
The Simplest Lore Accurate Reason:
Dragon Dreaming and Greensight is the Same Magic System.
Telepathy is Telepathy; doesn't matter if your conduit is a Tree, Dragon, Moon, Wolf, Owl, Candle, or Mutant X-Factor.
If you're on a landline and I'm on a cellphone, we're both talking through Phones.
Dragon Dreaming, Greensight, Warging, and Moonchatter are all the Same System.
that phone comparison is excellent
I'd exclude warging from that list, but other than that I'd agree. Warging is I think more related to dragon riding/binding, but I don't think those are 1:1 equivalents.
@@8Hshan well wargs can communicate with and take over their animals from long distances. It's still telepathy.
@@leadfaun Telepathy, yes, but greensight and dragon dreams have a pretty significant prophetic aspect too, which I think is missing in warging.
@@8HshanI’d argue that they don’t. We are but nothing before powerful l, ancient, and vengeful Gods. If you’ve got a way in, the Astral Realm is open.
"Under the sea the birds have scales for feathers".....
❤️🔥
I insist, given how little we know about her since the historians considered her crazy, that she might as well be a greenseer of her own. She has Hightower blood, which, despite of how they culturally seem to be the most Andal of all Andals, we're constantly reminded how old and First Men in origin they are... So much First Men in origin they are, they are one of those dozen and a few houses directly linked with one of Garth the Green offspring. Sure we know nothing about Garth and I'm not a theorist but if his figure is so prevalent (even if Garth were actually several different people) and the Hightower First Men origin is constantly reminded it has to count for something.
Of course, this doesn't need to take away her also being a dragon dreamer.
something to the effect of 'before there was old-town, there was the hightower'
Historians didn't consider her crazy. They thought her daughter Jahaera was unusual. They loved Halaena.
@@SilenceRed I don't know about House Hightower but Alicent (and her brother Gwayne)'s mother is Alyrie Florent. She came to court with her husband Otto, but died after a long illness early in season one. The Florents have strong ties with House Gardener - which was wiped out by Aegon Targaryen when he conquered Westeros. Alicent (and her brother Gwayne)'s mother is Alyrie Florent. She came to court with her husband Otto, but died after a long illness early in season one. The Florents have strong ties with House Gardener - which was wiped out by Aegon Targaryen when he conquered Westeros. Alicent says her mother's name in S2 Ep1 while lighting candles for the dead.
I think they both were caught in the same vision. Helena was just tuned in to the same channel. She has visions without the help of the Weirwoods all the time.
This. I very much don't think she meant to connect with Daemon.
I'm glad you made this video as I've been thinking the same thing every time I watch that scene as his hand is still on the Wierwood tree so thank you i just wanted to say that before I watched it
Hey, @Michael Talks About Stuff
I have been toying with whether or not HOTD will have Daemon and Helaena meet at The Red Keep when he and Rhaenyra take KL. That would be super freaking cool if we got at least one good scene with them alone. Or at least interacting in some way. I'm pretty hopeful we will get this. Thanks for all your great work here ❤️🔥
I want Haelena to have a faked death and for her to go to Ashai
@@banne8834 and she turns out to be Quaithe ❤️🔥 after she teams up with Sheara Seastarr and Alyssa Farman to become shadowbinders ❤️🔥 I like it!
We also heard Daemon singing to Vermithor at the end of HOTD S1. That'd be cool if singing/enchantment was a missing ingredient to dragon hatching we've been overlooking. Also, Helenas dragon is called Dreamfyre. Dreams = sleep = nighttime = moon
I saw someone suggest Helaena does not have Dragon dreams, she's a Hightower. They are First Men. she's a Greenseer
i'm amazed no one else that I know on YT ASOIAF/HOTD lore has said this.
She's both Hightower and Targaryen, and I think dragon dreams and green dreams operate on the same magical mechanic, just with a different "catalyst". Maybe Helaena gets both? This would fit her being REALLY weird and accurate with her prophecies.
Its also a bit more evidence that someone using magic in westeros called out to the Targaryens all the way in valyria
And the message that Daenys received is about the same message daemon gets
"Ur part of a bigger plan and this is what u must do"
Maybe it was Helaena?? Ohhh, I just love all of this " outside of time" stuff😊
I think the show is probably a bit more educated than the fans who watch it. It's a shame, but not a surprise. A lot of this is masters level Jungian archetypes and what they tell us about human psychology. All of these ideas can be found in European pagan mythology. This is what Martin means when he writes about the importance of stories. Stories tell us who we are, what is important to us, and even where we come from.
I appreciate these deep dives and think you are on to something. There is a strong spiritual connection between the Targaryans and the Starks. Between the dragon and the wolf. Between the sun and the moon. Between fire and ice. Between the tree that reaches for the moon and the dragon fire, that comes from the deep.
Huffs own farts… umm excuse me, but I think the writers and me know far more then the average fan. If you actually know about Jungian moon cycles and the Freudian aspects of the modern woman’s menstrual cycle you would know exactly what they were going for. This elegant and meticulously written masterpiece is far beyond George’s capabilities and serves to show the hubris of the modern fan of literature. Hence the scene between rhaenyra and Alicent. This is but an alagory of the plight of the modern woman under the tyranny of the patriarchy and Trumpian dog whistles… what a gif damn nerd 😂
“We can’t afford to render more dragons so let’s make the weird one do more weird stuff instead”
“Brilliant”
To be honest this isn’t a crusader kings mod
"Make it a Michael Bay production, but with dragons. Mythology and lore boring. Dragon go brrrrrr."
Im currently re-reading the books and my ipad cant handle me highlighting the oddest words because they sound GRRM-spicious. Guess now the moon will be added to the roster too! great tinfoil video as usual
Yeah it's a lot
The Moon being the connecting point of magic, could explain why the first long night started when a moon shattered. This would've broken connections.
Is GRRM a HAM Radio operator. I know HAMs with powerful enough radios will "bounce" signals off the moon
Amazing theory vid. Thats for the content very informative, i always see another pov after.
Helaena might be similar to Rani from Elden Ring
I’m surprised you did not also mention the visions in Dorne (where there are secret cave weirwoods) related to the full moon.
Thank you for helping keep the book lore in the front of the conversation. 😊
could you expand on this please?
Yeah, like the night that Doran Martell "needs his wits about him" when he just stares at the moon and naps.
We can only guess what Ryan Condal and Sara Hess have interpreted from the books
Sacrifice and comment to the old gods and the algorithm
The whole Helaena and the moon thing is too nerdy, elaborated, and fantastic to have come from the mind of a guy who forgot to make Blood Raven half blind and albino.
Thanks for responding to my question. Fr fr
I love your theories, specially the ones about the wall.
Loved it! About the Elden Ring lore, there is actually a story about a divine entity of sorts that seems to have had 3 faces. These 3 were the Full Moon, the Black Moon and the Dark Moon. The people from the Eternal Cities, the Nox, venerated the Black Moon in their worlds where an eternal man-made night happened underground and it remained this way until an Astel came from the great beyond and destroyed the Black Moon. Its shards are used to earn more slots for magic spells.
Another thing worth of note is that, in order to even find these Moons, the Carian royals had to go beyond a great wall and a sacrilegious lift that took them to the coldest part of the north-ones that had been forbidden by the crown and the royals of Leyndell, the capital. It is up there, with the Giants, their Meteor God, their fires and the eternal cold that the Carians found their Moon.
!! very interesting idea about the wolves being psychically linked via the moon!
Very cool love to think of these things too and you have def inspired my overall thoughts on this complex and in progress overarching series 😊
There is just too much moon stuff to not have a bigger significance. I'm rereading Feast as I watched this, and came across a timely passage in The Prophet, where Aeron refers to the Grey King's hall as the place where "the moon was drowned and come again." The moon seems to be falling a lot. Like the Dothraki dragon origin myth, or the Night Fort weirwood trying to pull the moon down. Maybe a moon was literally pulled down (perhaps upon the arm or Dorne), or maybe it is more of a metaphorical pulling of power from the moon.
MY GUY!!! I just realized!! It’s not just Bengen in Mormonts raven. After the mutiny, Mormont is trapped in the raven.
Omg. I realized the dame thing. 🤦♀️ I don't know why it took me so long! Remember at Crastor's keep, when Sam is cradling Mormont? Moments later, when Crastor's Wives bring Gilly to Sam is when Mormont's Raven tells Sam "Go! Go!(or something like). After that, it does seem like the Raven is actively doing what Jaor was telling everyone needed doing. Maybe.
Who is Bengen?
@@Grogeous_Maximus that’s a great question, I’ll ask my phones auto correct
I like the bit about the moonsingers.
Melisandre describes Bloodraven and Bran in her fire, and says they see her too. So we can be pretty confident that different forms of magic can get to the same place. I thought Helaena's magic was the from the dragon blood, but the moon is important to dragon myth as well as other types of magics
Hightowers are connected to magic too, I think even in the GOT timeline there's some backstage Hightower rumoured to do some unspecified magic stuff in their tower. So Helaena got a magic combo.
@8Hshan for sure, it's been off page so we know next to nothing about it
A bit off-topic, perhaps, but I also find the presence of the black goat in Daemon's visions interesting. A black goat is worshipped as a god in Qohor, that could be because it appears in Valyrian visions as a portent of death maybe?
I am obsessed with all your analysis
Gass candles are Valyrian smartphones transmitting sound and vision and videos from the future, using blood magic
In Elden Ring, there are two distinct forms of magic - Sorceries powered by the skill Intelligence associated with the stars and the moon, and Incantations powered by the skill Faith and associated with the Erdtree. Each form of magic has several elements associated with it, but cold is associated with Intelligence and Fire is associated with Faith. In the DLC, there is a story line having to do ancient ruins that heavily implies faith and intelligence have the same extraterrestrial origins. This mirrors in game metaphors for this sort of unification of seemingly opposing forces - The Sword of Night and Flame, Cathedral of Manus Celes, and Rellana, Twin Moon Night
bros only experience with magic is elden ring torture 😅
@@notjimpickens7928 Honestly, Elden Ring was easier to get through than the last two ASOIAF books
(around 17 minutes) the fact that ghost knew one wolf was dead and one was silent or missing, might imply that someone, one of his brothers and sister, told him somehow. i think it's possible nymeria saw lady get killed, or was close enough to figure out she was dead, then sang it to the moon and told the others. the reason ghost wouldnt know greywind is dead, is because none of the direwolves saw him die, or were close enough to find out, so no one told the others.
this might be nothing, im rereading the first book currently, im a bit hazy on the details around hints in the wolves of bran and jon knowing something happened around the time of lady and greywinds deaths.
I've long thought a second moon was going to have something to do with the shadow and the seasons
I have had the feeling that The Wall 🧱 being built had an effect like the Three Gorges Dam in China has had on our earth! The dam in China is so large and caused such a large concentration of water to one spot, that it's altered the earth's rotation!
Now granted it's such a small change it's hardly worth talking about. The fact that it's a measurable effect and was something thought about before and after its construction is interesting!
Now amplify this effect with magic! You have someone wanting to alter the planetary bodies above how do you go about that. Would altering the spin and rotation of the planet you are on shift the effects on all the others you also have magic to magnify the effects of what you choose to do. I wonder if this is enough to pull the meteor into the second moon!
The coriolis effect of wind has to do with the earth's rotation. By changing the rotation and now changing the climate north of it by trapping the cold. You likely throw off the seasons. If you look at weather patterns and wind. It's seems apparent that the wall is a major factor in what is throwing off the seasons. Especially if it's causing the rotation of the earth to stop the north from being heated by the sun. It's likely causing lots of cold air to circle back north instead of moving south. Until the atmospheric pressure by winter every where allows the cold air to flow over the wall.
The weirwoods are always reaching out for the moon! So there is an obvious connection with the weirwoods and the moon!
I have also long thought that the lands of always winter have castles towns and cities under the snow! The others live in the castles still buried from the last long night! It only makes sense given the 👊 of the first men and other first men construction beyond the wall that before seasons were out of whack that they'd have built in areas much more north and forced to abandon those areas do to the ice age that still claims the north. Makes me think of old maps that show antarctic as being green and populated with people, and all the secrecy surrounding it now by world governments.
It's definitely a crackpot idea but when I heard about the Dam I'm China and the worries about its effects on the planet and its orbit. I instantly thought of The Wall in Westeros likely weighing more and aside from keeping things out it sounds more like the tower of Baebl then a normal wall to keep something out.
I’m sure I saw Ryan Condall talking about a specific alignment or something might be happening to facilitate the magic overlapping in that moment, I think it was in a podcast about the episode
I think GRRM uses magic as laws/forces of nature. Just like trees use gravity and wind to spread seeds, weirwoods use green magic, dragons use fire magic, humans can use the power of life and blood sacrifice
Haven’t watched hotd but that balcony is definitely where helaena is going to nope out in a future episode.
Tommen out
Yeah they had a lot of scenes with her on balcony and when you saw her as a baby for the first time it was with the balcony behind her 😂 she definitely sign posted to leap from the balcony 😂
I love the shot of Roy Dotrice
Didn’t Drogo refer to Dany as his “Moon & stars”?
@@waynethompson6667 She called him my sun and stars. He called her moon of my life
She also called him “my groomer and rapist” but that one’s less popular
@@Marlboro-lights1 - whatever. I’m trying to understand what GRRM is doing. Your comment is in no way helpful.
@@Slechy_Lesh - thanks for the correction.
Daemon is like if I don't talk to you in person I'm also not going to speak 🗣️ to you in my hallucinations but I will accept the information for my Queen 👑
It's so nice of her helping Daemon even though he killed her son 😊
I love this moon and stars theory and not only because Brienne is my favorite character of all time and I want her to be revealed to have some insane magical bloodline between the Strongs (from Dunk) and the Targaryens (also probably via Dunk). I wonder what it means about the mountains of the moon given the idea that dead weirwood turn to stone (ie mountains)
I think glass candles and maybe greenseers use the moon as a “satellite” which is what it literally is 😎
I really luved this video an as you mentioned Glass Candles 🕯i was hoping to see a one or 2 especially at dragonstone from the time of the Aegon the Conqueror maybe used to check out about his sister wife Rhaenys was she alive or not as we've seen Maraxes skull at dragonstone i luv all you said about Qwaith an dreams moon an stars
TLDR; Elden Ring themed fire and shadow, the sun casts its fiery light through the moon and I find it linked thematically
I know that it's pretty boring to bring Elden Ring into this at all but it's interesting that this show came out after that world was created and is so different from the book I do think there are some themes he laid out in the lore of Elden Ring that also greatly apply to ASOIAF
The Night and Flame as well as two trees of light and shadow and the theming of night sky and moon vs earth and flame perhaps is insightful into GRRM's staples of worldbuilding.
Glass candle is interesting because it's"casting" an image across space like the light of the candle casts the candle's shadow/perhaps how the sun casts its light through the moon
Definitely starting to see a lot of ASOIAF tropes in Elden Ring the more I look into Ice and fire theories.
Not sure how much he contributed overall but George was a writer on Elden ring
Dragons birth from the moon, when the witch being burned by denaryes singed, she was being symbolized as the moon, same as the light of the sun is reflected on the moon, the fire reflects from her, to her magic birthing the dragons.
Why does every theory come back to glass candles, like come on m8
I want to see George get a bunch of money to do CGI 'upgrades' to Game of Thrones and re release an Author's cut where he puts glass candles back in.
CG out the Starbucks cups
glass candles are one of the extremely few definitively magic items we know exist, like the Palantir in LotR. a jumping off point in a logical start to a theory, and so when explaining said theory, it'll usually untangle back down to this evidence: the glass candles are magic
Dragons were created from beings that live beneath the ground, but they can fly up into the sky as they grow. Similarly, Weirwood trees grow up from the ground and spend their lives reaching for the sky. There is a connection between these ideas.
I actually thought about Haelena being Quaith.
Also,, Daenerys affectionately referred to Khal Drogo as "my sun and stars." and Drogo, in return, called Daenerys "moon of my life."
Could the “moon” have a negative connotation ? Daenerys basically has the life sucked out of Kal Drogo where as he is the sun (positive) and she is the moon (negative)
I don't think Helena has a glass candle. She's a dreamer, like her ancestors.
if you listen closely in the scene you can hear the wind. Potentially she tapped into the wind somehow given we have also had references about the wind from Alys this season?
Spoilers for Shadow of the Erdtree,
In the DLC there is an area that you find with a shallow body of water surrounded by chairs in a circle. The Elden Ring theorists are saying it might have been used for scrying and for watching the stars.
Could be that dragon dreamers like Halaena are basically living glass candles? Perhaps glass candles were an artificial recreation of this dragon magic phenomenon? After all a burning candle made of obsidian sounds a lot like a mimic of dragon fire
I think Helaena is more than a typical "dragon dreamer". Many Targaryens get some dragon dreams, but rarely any of them (if ever) gets multiple pretty accurate visions that Helaena seems to get. Maybe she's just more gifted in that regard, or maybe she's getting that from being half Hightower - this house is also related to magic.
Yeah, I could believe Helaena being a "living glass candle", but I don't think that's the case for all the people with dragon dreams.
It’s obvious that who ever/whatever is sending dragon dreams has the same goal as the old Gods, to defeat the others and prevent the next long night. The idea for Aegon the conqueror to have had a dragon dream about the coming of the others and that being the reason he conquerors Westeros came from GRRM. So it makes sense that the sources of these magics are working together. And we’ve seen ppl using different magic sources seeing each other in the books. Melisandre sees bran n blood raven in the flames and knows they see her. So for Helaena a dragon dreamer to see Daemon when he’s using the weirwood net is not anything far fetched or against cannon lore. I don’t get why so many ppl are having such a hard time accepting this. I don’t know about the moon being what Helaena used, although it is interesting. I do think it’s more likely that the direwolves are using the moon to amplify their connection, I like that idea more. Magic is stronger in the time of HOTD so I don’t see why Helaena needs a glass candle or the moon. She’s a Targaryen dragon dreamer that’s bonded to dreamfyr. Daemon needed the help of Alys and the weirwood/old Gods because he was psychologically closed off from dream’s prophecy, all of that stuff. If he had a different attitude towards it maybe he would had a dragon dream. But he needed help to be opened up to it and I think that’s why the old Gods took the opportunity to get involved while he was at Harrenhall to get him to see what he needed to do and why.
Maybe if the moon or stars were out when Helena is looking out you could make this argument but there isn’t and she’s mostly looking out at the city.
In tha shadow of tha moon her sarrows bleed,4 a heart in vain is a heart in pain.Dreams & Reality are as one sometimes try 2 stay above ground and not loose my mind.Yeah Helaina & Alys were both in Daemons third eye no doubt. Thnx brada 💯
Hey! Completely unrelated, but i was rereading A Game of Thrones, the part where Ned has to kill Lady with Ice, and i immediately thought about the magic properties of Valyrian steel (as in killing the Others), so maybe, given that a person who has a direwolf merges minds with it, killing the wolf with valyrian steel prevents the part of Sansa's mind in Lady to return to her, leading to her more submissive/weaker personality and her later loss of identity...?
Ghost is Moon moon confirmed!
Halaena has a dragon 🐉 glass candle 🕯️ it is known 😎⚔️🐉🔥
They were hinting this connection when they kept showing the black goat in the earlier episodes, which is a reference to the Black Goat of Qohor a deity from old Valyria.
You should collaborate with Company of the Cat
Could it be that Daemon also needed to pass the fall/fly test, and that would be one of the reasons why his death is described as just "he fell into the lake"? Also, after the weirwood paste, could he be a sort of 3ER analogue but in the God's Eye?
I do think dragon dreaming and green seeing are different magics. I think dragon dreaming is blood magic maybe fire magic which were both Valerian, green seeing is more first men/old gods/weirwood/ soul magic. I think either the writers in the series are getting loosy goosy with the magic from the books, which is fine, because George has said he wants magic to be vague in Westeros. But I also think it could be that Helena as some point did touch the weirwood in the red keep and her magical abilities of prescience were enhanced. I don’t think you necessarily need to be physically connected to a weirwood to use the network, I think her soul is connected to the network. I don’t really believe the “moon magic” theory because I don’t think there is a lot of evidence in the books or show to support it. I think the comparisons to the moon have a lot to do with the ice/fire light/dark sun/moon dichotomies in the books and are not literal. The North, weirwoods, first men, white walkers, night king/queen are all dark/ice/moon themed. Dragons, Valerya, Ralor, the South are all sun/fire/light themed. I think it has to do with the hint that the world is out of balance so too much of either theme is not necessarily a good thing. Quathe is definitely using a glass candle. It would be crazy if there was a glass candle in the red keep, but that’s something you can’t just have in a location only for it to never show up again. Also, the fact that Helaena uses both magic to me means that she is balanced in her motivations and wisdom.
So the idea of moon and stars. House Dayne sword is sword of a fallen star. If the moon and stars are magical broadcasters what would that sword do.
Mormonts raven is qorin half hand. That's why it says corn all the time.
you're a genius bro
Stars and the moon ELDEN RING
You brought it up!! I’m so happy elden ring mention
Aren't there also Wildling tribes that Mance Rayder says are moon worshippers? Also I seem to remember there being one or more of the Hill Tribes in the Vale who worship the moon.
The only problem with this is she would know that daemon ordered his son’s head to be chopped off and brought to him. Totally makes sense she would be super friendly and warn her enemy the turn around and enjoy telling her brother, who’s actually correct about needing to sacrifice to win a war. This whole scene was nonsense. The show is sunk.
love this idea💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
7:41 Mirri Maz Duur learned “birthing songs” from the Moon Singers. What if Mirri wasn’t “birthing” Danny’s dragons but birthing a monster from Dany. Think about it… “Moon tea” is a abortifacient .
So I thought Helena was their sister, but she was married to the first king?
She is married to her brother Aegon, due to Targaryen marriage customs being what they are.
❤
helaena helping the man who killed her 4 year old son is insane level of writing
Yea dunno bout tht elden ring connection...any author worth their salt wont mix stuff like that in such similar ways unless they are supposed to be in the same universe
Darkreader? :o plx
There's many ideas about the Moon being used for a magical conduit or communication device, and there are many scenes where weird stuff happens.
Catelyn sleeps and is knocked out for hours while at Hoster's bedside, someone must have been messing with her head. Also Hoster has nightmares about the time he is giving Tansy tea to Lysa to get rid of Littlefinger's child. Maybe the Moon is giving him the nightmares.
There is the legend that Dragons came from the Moon that cracked. Maybe there was a fire moon that had dragons and the remaining moon has ice magic in it, and it's power growing brings the others and the long night. Maybe it's not others but weirwoods that connect to the white moon and the moon is full of weirwoods and weirwoods themselves are native to that moon and not earth at all.
This is just a bunch of nonsense rambling.
i like this thought!!! the fire moon is a great idea.
Martin: Magic comes fronm this and that, and there is fire magic, and ice magic, and blood magic a lot....
Condal: "magic, you know, magic..."
It is amazing how she found herself. Something in the interaction between Aemond fighting with her and the injury of Aegon woke her up.
🐲🐉🎉
Instant click
simple. How so often the authors had no idea what to do so they decided for something stupid.
"Shit! I need to finish the scene ... so let's take some booze and some coffee and the story writes itself."
Stop chasing your tail. Overinterpretation is nothing good.
No offence but speculating about the lore using hotd information is useless at this point. Not only there's a lot of inconsistencies with the book lore but even GRRM started pointing this out to the point that he very clearly doesn't like it.
Sure some of it might be important but some of it is clearly invented for the show and not by George. And we don't know which is which
fr all these vids are pointless cause this show is non cannon and ever increasingly so
Yup, you guys are thinking way too deep into this stuff when we know for a fact the writers definitely aren't lol
@asimhussain8716 media literacy is dead. Just admit mythology and archetypes bore you, and you want a Marvel movie with dragons. This show is about psychology and archetypes, not badass fighting. The writers get that. A lot of the fans don't. This likely has to do with the lack of education in the US that focuses on things like Jungian archetypes and pagan mythologies. If you are into that, this show is fascinating.
@@cl5470 lol you think you know anything about archetypes or symbology or deeper writing when you parrot "media literacy" like a typical redditor?
This show is barely deeper than MCU trash. Your standards are garbage, hence why we get something slightly deeper than MCU you think it's full of Jungian archetypes? Lol sit down... you can literally project these sentiments into almost any show. That does not mean the show itself is commenting on such themes.
@@cl5470 LOL
Playing devil's advocate here: Is it possible the writers' room made a mistake? I think HBO learned their lesson and is running worldbuilding elements like this by GRRM much more diligently than D&D did (and taking his feedback to heart), but is it possible they just forgot to have Helaena using weirwood or glass candle to interact with Daemon's dream?
Do you think hotd will establish glass candles & other valyrian magic in future sessions for a potential reboot of the series?
They better fucking not
The characters already teleport to meet each other so why would they need glass candles
Including Halaena was absolutely unnecessary!
I really hope George makes a decision this next season. He should either contribute to the script or keep his mouth closed. He has created a big conflict with some viewers who aren't able to separate the book format from the show. Don't create artistic conflict from your media.
I can't believe you are treating this crap show like it's canon and incorporating this BS lore into your own theories and risking ruining them all.
Translation: "I don't understand the symbols and archetypes Martin was playing with, so it's not cannon."
@@cl5470 No, it's not written by him and tons of it is diametrically opposed to his world building, so it's obviously not canon. Gods this community has grown so absolutely hostile to anyone making an opposing point.
segundo
this show is so ass
Fiiirst
Option 3: bad story writing
Option 4 lazy comment
Not sure I'm in agreement with the moon and stars theory. I was already thinking glass candle tho 🫶🏻 right on!
I still think Daemon is heading towards ending his life on the Isle of Faces as Bloodraven's predecessor. Were you alluding to this here? 21:42
I love that she just dont give a F because she already knew her kid would die and already knew she would kill herself later. She just revealed her magic power card but too apathetic to do anything other than watch on in horror