The Climate Crisis and The Climate Crash | Simon Michaux
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
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Did you know wind turbines aren’t recyclable? What happens when globalisation fails and post-industrial states like Europe and the US are left to mine their own materials? How can we mitigate climate change without plunging billions into poverty?
Simon Michaux is an associate professor in the circular economy solution unit at the Geological Survey of Finland. He models the mining and energy industries to figure out what we can do sustainably-and what is nothing more than greenwashing-and drops more than a few bombshells throughout this episode concerning energy use and politics.
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🌎 Website: www.planetcritical.com/
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© Rachel Donald
Would have loved to see the shared slides, not only hearing the description. Beside that, wonderfully lead through the conversation. 🖖
“People who pride themselves on their ‘complexity’ and deride others for being "simplistic" should realize that the truth is often not very complicated. What gets complex is evading the truth.”
Thomas Sowell
Wow, Rachel - I recently discovered your work through the Nate Hagens episode and I've since listened to both this and the Josh Farley conversation. You're a fantastic listener and you guide these conversations masterfully. Thanks for putting this out there - the world needs to hear it, and as this episode alluded to, they inevitably will.
Wow! Thanks so much, Nick, what a review! I'm thrilled you find such value in the podcast, keep tuning in!
It's honestly an overpopulation problem.
Overshoot
@@keithk8275 Yeppers, and upcoming bottleneck as we try to feed eight billion humans with contemporary sunshine, a damaged biosphere and unreliable climate.
@@TennesseeJed7. 5 billion people aren't going to go quietly.
@@Withnail1969 Nor should they/we. I hope the unrest doesn't cause a planet wide sterilization of all living creatures via thermonuclear wars.
@@TennesseeJed They will have to go though, one way or another. It's not going to be possible to feed them.
Really good stuff, thank you! I think he covers all the issues. Scarey. I hope high up people will start listening his straight up wisdom.
The catch with us not dying off, doesn't remember the possible nuclear collapse of the current reactors that would come with the social collapse around.
Love your interviewing style, Rachel, Bright, focused but charming.
Thanks so much! I'm so thrilled you enjoy it. Keep tuning in!
Great conversation with so much content, I'm a great fan of Simon Michaux and his stack of data. I will check on this channel from now on. The point with the generation of the babyboomers being looked down upon by the WW2 generation is well described in the book "A generation of sociopaths" by B.C. Gibney. Maybe, Mr. Gibney would be a great interview partner, too.
Great, thanks!
I'm curious if thorium fission power was considered. Thorium (as a fuel) is much more widely available than Uranium, and is much closer to commercial use than fusion power.
Thanks for this great interview. Would it be possible to get a transcript?
Excellent podcast. Could you put a link for the slides plz?
I generally agree with the facts presented by Simon. However, at 43:28 Rachel mentioned an anecdote about a good friend who met a wind turbine engineer at a Scottish pub in 2011. That wind turbine engineer told Rachel's friend that wind turbines are not the answer because they consume more energy in their production than they will likely produce in their lifetime. When Rachel puts this anecdote to Simon he agrees with the wind turbine engineer. I am not sure on what basis Simon agrees but from my reading and understanding the wind turbine engineer is wrong. The energy payback time has been studied and reported to be ~ 2 years for wind turbines (doi: 10.1007/s11367-012-0397-8) and ~ 4 years for solar (doi: 10.3390/en13010252). This resonates with another commentator
@Peter Todd. The actual problem with wind and solar is that they are currently not designed to be recyclable, hence they are not sustainable from a material's perspective. Efforts are on the way (refer to @Peter Tood's comments and www. linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6962543876884627456; I put a space after www. to avoid having this comment being removed by robots for posting weblinks) but there is still some way to go for these RE techs to be sustainable.
Instinct vrs. Intellect: Thanks for activating my dopamine fix on this topic of pre-dystopian earth overshoot. Simon has become my favorite new Cassandra and I would vote for him for world emperor. I just subscribed to your channel, Rachel. Keep up the great dialogues. Nature bats last. lol
I am only beginning to understand the gobal struggle for energy. In my mind the only sustainble answer is for each home to be energy independant. All D/C power and independant of the grid. All new construction to be micro systems. South facing glass walls. High insulation. Grid power should be contained to industry and hoealthcare. The grid is not sustainable and will always be vulnerable to cyber or aging degradation. We can not smelt metals on solar power. Culture has to change to change this energy crisis.I have been off grid 15 yearsand only using home made D/C, wind and solar. The true problem is people won't make due with less.
Sounds like everybody needs a free standing house ->low density population -> car dependency.
Where can I get the slides he was showing / discussing during the interview ?
Another interesting conversation, lots of valid ideas in there.
Just to bring up a couple of points.
The non-recyclable turbine blades is a known issue and industries are working towards producing fully recyclable blades, and turbines.
Siemens Gamesa (Norway) has just recently begun producing commercially available, fully recyclable blades for instance.
Regarding whether the energy in (production) versus the energy output of turbines, the timescale varies from a few years to never, dependent on many factors, the most obvious being placement.
Simon talks about mass scale lithium-ion batteries not being viable for long term storage of renewable electricity, correct.
However, industry is not asleep, there are many different battery technologies being developed and rolled out to address high capacity, high current, deep cycle use for long term storage.
Quite a few of those technologies are using cheap and plentiful metals and chemicals.
Thanks for joining the discussion, Peter. Could you point me towards any articles on these new battery technologies?
@@PlanetCritical Sure - I'll email some links
@@PlanetCritical the youtube channel " just have a think" has lots of climate change technology stuff, well presented. I think the very bright presenter is an engineer, but a clear and entertaining communicator.
Blades. You can never recover every single micro particle and recovery means increasing complexity on marginal returns.
Simon is hilarious in this interview 😂
Obviously a brilliant guy--"the smartest guy in the room"--but the discussion tends to get a little bit lost in all the data and numbers.
Hey John, thanks for your feedback. Simon was showing me a powerpoint at the same time. If I'd had the time I would have made this a visual podcast-I'll bear it in mind for next time.
Enjoyable and informative. Shame no video as would have made it better.
Before I forget...Samuel was mentor of dictionary and thesaurus
.
16:45 steppingstone to something else.
27:14
30:50
43:55
Just found your channel and have been enjoying the conversations. I've been a skeptic of green tech for quite some time now, and know we are in planetary overshoot and likely headed for collapse. That said, a few days ago I came across a technology project called Stored Energy at Sea, in which submerged hollow concrete spheres are filled with water, spinning a turbine as it flows in to generate energy, and then pumped out using energy from perhaps offshore wind, thus acting as a kind of battery which I believe would be less mineral intensive. It solves the land issue of land based pumped hydro storage facilities that utilize energy to pump water to an elevated reservoir, and then released down elevation when the energy is needed. Obviously we can't use this kind of tech to maintain our consumerist lifestyle, but I wonder if in some ideal situation where govt and populations were responsive to the environmental situation, if this could be implement in.some kind of degrowth paradigm. Would love to hear this guest,s take, as he briefly mentions the land issues around pumped hydro.
Hey Luke, I'm so pleased you're enjoying P:C! Interesting about the Energy Stored at Sea-from what I understand anything to do with the seabed is very dodgy as we haven't done enough studies to grasp the impact that mining and/or construction has on the environment. Nonetheless I'll look it out!
If we're serious about reducing dependence on hydrocarbons for energy we better get cracking building a buttload of nuclear power plants.
Or, a few very large ones.
This video needs more eyeballs
Agreed!
It's got mine!!
So the first part of the solution is how much can we Power Down, are these stats based on current use? Plainly that cannot be an option?
We have to start using Lithium Ferrous Phosphate (LFP) batteries and Na-Li hybrid batteries instead of ternary batteries. China is working on a Sodium only cathode battery for vehicles (SE Asia countries are already using sodium cathode only batteries). Also, we have battery grid backup now which is Sodium Cathode only which means no rare Earth mining. It's amazing how things have improved in the past couple years. I do take Simon's points. As a Chemist, I research (just for fun) methane clathrate&permafrost thaw, the sticky wicket of latent heat vis-a-vis loss of cryosphere and wet bulb temps (including a 2023 El Nino). I see the combination of these three drivers as having exponential impacts of global temperature rise and human animal deaths and non-human animal deaths. I believe there will be an extinction of large fauna including human animals. Reset in 20 million years. That being said, I think it is still worthy to keep pursuing mitigation efforts.
2nd time I've heard of salt batteries I'll have to look into it..
But about death of megafauna... I suppose think we reach PETM within what decades, centuries?
Gigantopithecus was (well, is if count the yeti 🙃) the largest ape ever, like 2x a gorilla.
Was alive in Miocene Climactic Optimum they say +8?
While is intuitive our brains need extra cooling now 3x the size they were back when had common ancestor w chimps... I've not found anything written that states this
Apes have fur and no solar fans much less aircon food courts at mall. Ergo +7C in European to Malay jungle belt was not wet bulb as we think
Key is apes don't work but 20 minutes a day making their nest. Behavioral changes necessary
Why can't we see the slides?
this is a great conversation, thank you! but please be careful with biological determinism (ie "human nature got us here"). people have a wonderful way to counter human nature (whatever that might be): it is culture. many people around the world, for many thousands of years, have had a worldview that prioritizes living in balance with the natural world (aka living sustainably). the global culture that is currently in charge of resource allocation does not have that value. people part of this global system have systematically destroyed the people and cultures that hold the sustainability value. so please hold the phone when it comes to "we're trying to overcome human biology."
Completely agreed!
“Industrial ecosystem” is an oxymoron.
An ecosystem only exists in nature, is an interdependent and reciprocal living system full of life and exactly zero technology.
No human system is an ecosystem, all of our systems are just systems.
Every ecosystem on the planet is in a state of distress or collapse right now. Let’s not diminish that matter by redefining the word to ignore it’s meaning entirely.
Where can the German 'reports' be accessed?
Why we don't see the screen the guest was sharing? 😅
We could expand biofuel production with deep sea kelp farming. You should talk to Dr. Brian von Herzen.
Great, I'll look him up!
Save Our Planet - Climate
“WE” have not waited for the last moment. “WE” could have cheap safe waste free electricity and industrial process heat in VAST quantities. Carbon free.
“WE” are not to blame. WASHINGTON DC is.
Sorry Garret Moddel
we cut down trees and we cut down trees and one of theese days we will cut down the tree of life!.
“ . . . 7:44 is that natural gas and
7:48 hydro would be far far more expensive
7:52 than wind solar and batteries
7:54 and if you calculate these numbers
7:57 correctly
7:58 so we need it so it's important to make
8:00 the right investment decisions to get
8:02 the best value
8:04 when we build a power plant have i got
8:05 that correct yeah so so this is
8:07 this is even it gets even more
8:09 interesting markham because
8:11 even with inaccurate lcoes for
8:14 conventional
8:15 generation the cost solar uh
8:18 in wind are already the cheapest sources
8:21 of energy on the planet . . .
9:49 so in the case of gas in 2020
9:53 when you correct the lcoe gas is 60%
9:56 higher than published reports coal is
9:59 four times higher than published report
10:03 wind i mean hydroelectric
10:06 is three times higher than reported
10:10 so again even with inaccurate
10:13 wildly lower than reality lcoes
10:17 solar and wind and batteries are still
10:19 cheaper but the gap
10:20 is widening by a lot when you correct
10:23 for the lcoe of conventional generation . . . “
czcams.com/video/PFqEegqrSJ4/video.html
Won't be easy, pretty and millions will die.
This was confusing, he makes sense in a lot of places while clinging to outright myths (zero point energy, Europe starts mining again ) in others. Not sure if I listened to a reasonable prof or some lunatic who also happens to be one.
Are there two people interviewing Michael? Or is it a terrible mic ?
5:20: Plastic to replace paper is better? I don't think so. Plastic sheets fall to pieces in 5 to 10 years. It would be a disaster to replace paper with plastic. I think it's better to reduce paper use, with electronic devices which can hold thousands of books and documents.
Data degrades. And server data farms are very energy intensive, not to mention the water required to cool them. The internet 🛜 is a planet 🌍 eater.
The omnibus of sorts ie style etc emerged .
We got da climate crisis, an da climate crash - an now we gonna pay da climate cash ! Guaronteed !
I came from reddit collapse
Some of the facts he mention and insists upon doesn’t seem to hold. The EROEI of wind and solar is higher than what he says, close to 20. Also how much mineral do we have for the energy transition is still unclear, there are challenges to size the mining industry but the resources might be more than he thinks. But I agree that so far we dont see how renewable can go from 4 % to 100% to power our civilization not mentioning the problem of storage to deal with the intermittency issue.
"The EROI of wing and solar is [...] close to 20." Then, why do no countries run over 50% on wind and solar, and why are the electricity prices in California 3x those of Washington State?
Just admit it..we are toast burnt 🔥🥵 that is
human choice decentralization, God's kingdom central authority
12:17 Europe needs to start mining? There has been mining in Europe for thousands of years. There are no good prospects left in Europe. He says a lot of sane stuff followed by something unhinged is my problem with this guy.
the moment he started talking about "zero point energy" he lost me. It is science fiction. Our current understanding of reality does not permit what he is suggesting.
It is under study by DARPA or NASA iirc. Not my wheelhouse but there is tax funding spent on it. Not thought woo by everyone
@@DrSmooth2000 it is not "woo". It is just _wrong_ , nonsensical. It is like trying to come up with a count fewer than zero.
@@GeorgeTsiros hey... they rebooted CERN a year ago to try to... detain/take matter from the Fifth Dimension in order to prove 5D exists.
Since don't know it exists any rules about it are entirely speculation. No idea how it would react upon contact or perhaps even an inhabited region?
Practical technology has slowed but an overproduction of elites means lot of theoretical work is being done?
I do like sweeping elegant solutions so bit biased.
Nikola Tesla and Zero Point Energy and Casimir effect! Quack quack quack.
We need a plan for creating a springboard to the future.
Sterilizing every living human, shutting off the internet and making internal combustion engines and all other powered vehicles illegal and use of them punishable by death would be a good start.
When I posted citations in response to your request for links after my first comment, they were taken down. Twice. But, whatever. Unsub.
Hey, that's strange, I don't delete any comments, I have no idea why they weren't posted-although you're the second person this week to say they had this problem when giving citations. I will contact youtube.
So apparently CZcams often flags comments with links as spam, hence why yours may have been deleted.
@RADman I faced the same problem. I've inserted a space after www. and so far my comment is still visible.
So this is not about the climate but merely a rant against capitalism, how tawdry and pointless.
join God's free will kingdom; give emotion and feeling to substantive choice, human nature
This is a display of ignorance. Geology & technology tell us that geothermal is the best possible energy future. The lithium scare ignores sodium technology.
follow God's leadership of free will kingdom in world to rescue planet