10 Reasons WCW DIED! (Going in Raw COUNTOUT Ep. 8)
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I still come back to this from time to time, classic Steve and Larson.
Not enough matches featured Judy Bagwell and/or forklifts.
ku62jo62 the Judy bagwell on a forklift match is only the greatest match in pro wrestling history. Also fun fact... Judy bagwell is a undefeated WCW tag team champion.
not enough long term vision. There was good vision on Goldberg, Sting and some DDP stuff. DDP faltered when they had him doing nothing, Sting's push died after Hogan destroyed him in a squash, and Goldberg was done in by injury.
FYI Steve and Larson - the original plan for Sting/Hogan title match was for the ref to do a fast count. Hogan talked to him before the match and he did a normal count. Hart would get him to do a re-start of the match, which would have made sense with the fast count. instead it just kind of fizzled the heat.
Not enough gimmick matches all together
Steven Benson I heard about the Hogan/Sting/Hart deal recently myself. All I could think was damn, they couldn't even ripoff the Screwjob correctly.
How about not putting the belt on a big star like Kiwi. That attributed to the demise
#10 (2:04) WWF
#9 (5:04) Inmates Running Asylum
#8 (7:46) The Warrior
#7 (11:11) Goldberg's Streak (how it ended)
#6 (13:24) Fingerpoke of Doom
#5 (17:26) The NWO
#4 (23:05) Hulk Hogan
#3 (26:28) David Arquette
#2 (31:27) Vince Russo
#1 (35:59) AOL Merger
Some great points, and great chat!
Goldberg wasn't anywhere near as well of an in-ring performer as everyone "remembers" him to be. The best match I ever seen him have was when they RUINED the Page and Raven feud by feeding Raven's US Title to the streak 23 hours after they gave it to him.
Which brings me to another point, Scott Levy always seemed to bring the best out of whoever he happened to work with and rarely had the same match twice even if it was with the same "opponent" more than once.
hitek9wittafulclip Glenn Jacobs is WAY better in-ring performer than everyone else on that list you just made. Luger matches were boring and predictable, Cena botches moves left and right, Davey was entertaining in WWF and WCW, but after he came back to WWF he became stale, Lashley was no where near as talented as Kane and Batista, And Batista is a very distant second place on that list.
It's ok to have a powerhouse style, but you have to be more than that. 'Taker and Kane are powerhouse, but they also have elements of other styles as well.
Mike Fox i like balls
Not every wrestler has to be on the Bret Hart level but they should at least be able to work a decent 7-10 minute match...
You say david arquette but vince mcmahon was wwf champion and wwf/wwe is still going that was not the reason hogan hall and bishoff and the fact That 75 percent of the roster was nwo and hogn keep going from hulk to Hollywood nothing was credible that's because they didn't have real writers
Steve doing the "TRIGGERED" thing is fucking hilarious for some reason.
10: Vince Russo
9: Vince Russo
8: Vince Russo
7: Vince Russo
6: Vince Russo
5: Vince Russo
4: Vince Russo
3: Vince Russo
2: Vince Russo
1: Not enough Judy Bagwell on a forklift
3/10 not enough pole matches
Pretty sure WCW's death boiled down to one thing: hemorraging money. They blew through cash left and right. Talent getting paid whether they were working or not was ridiculous.
Not for the talent. ;)
Nah, the spending between '99 (their highest ever profit year) and 2000 were virtually the same; it's just every income source went plummet.
Trying too hard to counter WWF without having the vision of WWF, or the strong leadership, is why WCW failed ultimately.
Rey Mysterio came AFTER the Wars ended, and after the Alliance fizzled.
He was injured i do believe and if he wasn't he would've been feuding for the cruiserweight title on the behalf of the alliance and if you wanna be technical the only ones who was directly on team WWF that was from WCW at the time during the alliance was Perry Saturn and Chris Jericho cause Benoit was injured Eddie was fired or injured Dean was Either retired or injured at the time and as I said Rey was injured i think but if you had turned either any 1 or more of these guys turn on Team WWF and join Team Alliance to be a double agent for Team WWF who would it have been
Actually he like Hogan and Nash and Sting and most of the other big names were still under contract and being paid by Time Warner not WCW. They waited till after their contracts were done before coming to WWE.
R Bostaph but, at the end of the day, I as right. Rey did not come during the initial wave of defections. he came after WWF bought the company. the Alliance only was brought up to specify when he debuted.
Jay Carter thank you. Rey was not apart of the big initial defections from 98-00.
Hulk hogan was the biggest liability on wcw. He caused big money drain. He is the biggest reason of wwc fall.
Him and bischoff did the same to tna
Giving him creative control and hard numbers vs mainly percentages was terrible. Had WCW just played a little hardball like how Vince treated him upon returning to the WWF, even Hogan knew a WCW paycheck was bigger than a WWF one in the mid-90’s and would’ve been somewhat more of a team player vs just protecting Hulkamania.
Mismanagement was the disease & Hogan was just the biggest symptom, where Turner was just pumping his only available treatment (money) because he was a billionaire. Once people took Turner’s control away, WCW was doomed as all that unaddressed mismanagement (i.e. getting rid of a complacent & expensive Hogan) finally caught up to them.
@@rlouie05 The differences is when Hogan returned there wasn't an equal competitor for him to go to. I'm not saying WCW couldn't have played hardball, but it is worth bearing in mind
@@cld244 Hogan went to WCW for the cash, especially when his movie career didn't exactly go the path of Rock, Batista, or even Austin or Kozlov (yes, this WWE castoff is actually in-demand muscle even if it's all secondary roles). When WCW died and this contract with AOL expired, Hogan likely returned to Vince to keep earning paychecks, but definitely with much less (if any) creative control as he, Nash & Hall were all jobbed out mostly outside of a 1-month WWE title reign by the Hulkster.
@@rlouie05 If that is true, I don't think it disproves what I said.Hogan wasn't able to have the leverage he had in 2002 as he did in 94 as their was only one major promotion in town in 2002. I will say Hogan certainly had stroke in 2005 as he was able to avoid losing to HBK.
Rey was in WCW until they died.
So was Sting
"im sure there was something bret could have brought with him to destroy, that represents his time on WWF"
His GLASSES!!! Come out wearing them, and tear them to shreds during the promo...
Joe Manzella or the boots he wore at survivor series
So much smack on WCW. people are still talking about it, though. 96-98 was pretty good I thought and I'm more of an old NWA guy, but it was fun to watch
Fingerpoke of doom is the reason I stopped watching WCW. The moment they were celebrating in the ring together, I shut the tv off. It was bullshit
InitialXG That was the kiss of death, that made way foe WWF wun.
erou Do you have a lisp when typing or something?
InitialXG *The Fingerpoke of Doom!* It sent butts OUT of the seats.
Jay Carter 😅😅😅😄
InitialXG it was hilarious.
What about the TBS board who hated wrestling
It was losing money and that's why they hated it!!!
1 & 9 were fairly correct, with 4 being a symptom of 9, where if you give a wrestler total creative control & lack measures to keep him in line when he didn’t feel like losing even if it meant more money for all, creating new stars was more difficult if they don’t pick up wins against credible opponents at some point.
5 was only due to how their contracts were structured with “favored nations status”, where both Outsiders must’ve been extremely happy to see Bret Hart arrive, while their leader was already in an ivory castle.
All other decisions were storyline blunders that lacked a good storyteller putting his foot down when the situation called for a strong selfless booker that didn’t buy into their own celebrity or how good they would look.
Top 10 ways WWE could improve?
You would need a top 100 ways to cover it
Matthew B lmao absolutely
Matthew B if you complain constantly yet still watch it, then you're their bitch and they own you.
Stop catering to smarks can be 1 through 10
ancap But here's the problem, especially in this easily offended day and age, is that when you go the more violent route at least I believe, that you start losing sponsors, the network starts getting a little uneasy because people are complaining about the amount of blood and violence theyre seeing. I just dont think its that simple
Crazy going back to an old S&L episode and seeing &Larson with black hair 🫣
You guys are great! I have been a fan of yours since 10 FTW. I am so happy that you got away from michinima because you are such great reviewers and you were limited by mich.
I got to watch the entire ppv match between Goldberg and DDP was never cut on my TV but when I went to school everyone was complaining about how their ppv was cut off I was laughing so hard
Love the content, listen on ITunes and catch things here on the tube!Big fan, pretty much.I know you guys (or at least Steve) is all about that youtube revenue, however letting the ads run through out the program messes with the continuity and in general is annoying.I can remedy it myself by just not watching and only listening on ITunes, but I also know one can easily click in programing ads off, and just have the ads at the beginning and on the bottom of the screen.
Hey Steve & Larson You should do two count out's like Feud's that ended to soon and feud's that went on to long
Yeeeeeaaaah see?! Now that I turned on notifications I saw that you posted this and I'm here. Isn't technology cool, Steve/Larson?
Triple wasn't fired. He left and wouldn't resign to pursue a WWF contract. He walked out on a guaranteed $250,000 contract.
I'm sure he's not regretting staying
yes thank you guys this was an awesome video
Rey mysterio didn't jump over till after wcw went under. He was cruiserweight tag champion with billy Kidman
Filthy Animals vs Jung Dragons were some of the best matches I've ever seen. Can you imagine if Jeff tagged with Van Dam instead of Matt and we had three way matches of Jeff/RVD vs Filthy Animals vs Jung Dragons? That would've been EPIC!
only thing WcW kept me hooked on was the cruiserweight division all the best wrestlers were fighting for that belt.
Top 10 Worst TNA Moments
I hate hogan, I always have, and probably always will
Why you so mean Brother. What If he is in Front of you. What you gonna do Brother.
Prolly think "eww..." and walk away.
I never had respected Ric Flair and never will.
I totally want an "According to Scoop's notes....." T-shirt!
Man I was such a WCW fan boy.. I remember my mom would let me watch WWF.. It was a little More hardcore but my dad would always sneak it on during commercials.. I felt that was the best time in wrestling.. I'm 31 now so imagine my age an get u felt that b4 you hate lol
Rey mysterious jr did not appear until after we was out of biz and even after the crappy invasion angle
we screw auto correct
wcw
Top 10 ways WWE can improve
1. Get rid of Vince McMahon and his yes men, and let Triple H run it
2. Build a superstar like Austin and The Rock
3. Make very powerful stables
4.Bring back the attitude era but don't call it the attitude era
5. Stop relying on older talent
6. Stop hiring part timers
7. Make rilvaries like Austin vs Rock, HBK vs Hart
8. Let the cruiserweight loose and let them actually show the world their talent
9. Bring in more indy talent but make sure Vince is gone
10. Do more ppvs overseas American wrestling fans stink and don't know how to make wrestling what it was, all the older hardcore fans are at home criticizing this shitty product
Land of the Dread Heads PG isn't the problem with current WWE and making another Attitude Era or trying to copy Austin-Rock Won't help anything
Jon Baird how is that
The Gift Of Jericho PG is one of the problems my guy,
Who in the current roster can be the next Austin or Rock? How would you build it?
Id say the biggest problem of current WWE is Raw's Writing Staff. Smackdown is killing Raw in the ratings. For Smackdown the problem is the overexposure of James Ellsworth, I like Ellsworth but the push they've been giving him is a little over the top.
You should do 10 top best/worst heel and face turns. Can stretch it out a little bit.
not only was the twitter handles hard to read, but they only flashed for a second. still love the videos
jesse ruiz pause button?
jesse ruiz Most top notch channels have all the social media info in the video description.
To be fair Hogan jobbed to Kidman but only after 10 minutes of beating the hell out of him followed by Russo screwing Hogan. It was similar to Bully Ray dropping the TNA title to Chris Sabin honestly.
It’s how the Hogan fans still ignore how he killed the company.
He was less than helpful in saving it vs actually killing it. Had he not had creative control AND not get the amount of money he was guaranteed, WCW still needed stars to carry them into the 2000’s. There were still pieces in their company to do that, but the damage from actions like handing Hogan everything was already done, where once their lifeline (Turner’s checkbook) was severed, WWF was at the door with Shane to take over the remains.
Regarding #3, Jon Stewart got involved in the whole Cena/Flair title storyline.
Shoulda had him face Trump at Hell in a Cell. With Abdullah the Butcher and Iron Sheikh as co-guest referees. That'll put the Steinies in the reclinies.
Still he never held the belt.
Can't believe you homies forgot Scott Flash Norton. Dude was my favorite NWO member.
I say the best top 10 video I've seen so far (I liked most of them in general, especially with the new conversation format). Was very interesting how almost each point in the top 10 was related to the point after.
Suggestion though. Is it possible to include a few pictures related to what you guys are talking about? For example, talking about Rosso WCW champ (insert picture of Rosso holding the belt). Injury to Goldberg (insert picture of Goldberg hitting Rosso). I think would make the presentation a lot better (not that I mind looking at you guys lol don't get me wrong).
Vince bought WCW for 2 million.
thats both sad and hilarious
2million in cash and 2million in promised advertising
4 million in total actually.
2 million for the rings,IP,belts and such
Then a few months later he bought the entire tape library for another 2 million.
So 4 million total.
Xamontt wow how funny and sad, so he paid to buy WCW which 1 time could’ve put him out of business, what he would pay now for a single wrestler like Seth Rollins or roman reigns 😂
The people who owned WCW’s remains must’ve hated it so much not to realize what that tape library was really worth to Vince.
Disagree totally on the Goldberg streak: Horrible idea from the start. Nothing cheapened the WCW brand more than having a retired football player without wrestling credentials no sell their entire roster's finishers and job them in under 5 minutes.
Call me crazy but if WCW kept Goldberg as a top priority then the war could've went on to 2003, no matter how shit WCW was Goldberg could still draw in football stadiums.
love the slapnuts t shirt
We all did, but the WCW title coming onto that gimmick was too soon and rushed.
Dang im old, remember watching this video when it first came out haha
Another great video
WCW killed WCW. Too many chiefs and not enough indians
😂
Hulk Nash Russo are the Typhoid Mary in wcw that killed wcw
Love the show watching every episode.
How do you make the numbers in that design where it's connected to the word
One thing, I think, that hurt the New Blood angle was that they were heels rather than babyfaces. The Millionaires' Club should have been heel, because that's how they actually were. But the stigma of the younger people coming up being a bad thing hurt the angle.
Would have been tough to put ppl the fans actually liked as heels like sting,ddp,flair and Sid
Correction: Rey mysterio came over when WCW folded.
Loving that old Jarrett shirt. A Steve and Larson WCW notification is a great way to wake up. You guys are awesome
good stuff guys and on point
Rey didn't come during the Monday night wars. He came to WWE in 2002
love you guys got my like
My fav wrestling podcast ✌🏻️
Sting didn’t drop the title until the premiere of Thunder in the middle of January 1998.
It was the Rise and Fall of WCW DVD that Jericho said that [about wanting to buy WCW]
leavin' a comment just to add to that whole "ENGAGEMENT!!" thing. really happy about these top 10s being long videos. enjoy this much much more than you guys just saying "number 10! hogan sux! number 9! russo sux!!".
With regards to the end bit about Bret Hart. He had a clause in his WWF contract and couldn't wrestle for another company for 2 months.
I tried soooooo hard to watch WCW in its end days until it got so bad I just couldn’t bare it until the last episode
John Stewart interfering in a match between John cena and Seth Rollins was the only time I can think of when a celebrity was involved in a wwe match
You must have missed WrestleMania, WrestleMania 2, the 3 years of celebrity hosts of Raw, Mike Tyson at WrestleMania 13, Pete Rose at WrestleMania 4 5 and 6, Arnold Scwarzeneggar vs HHH, That English footballer slapping Wade Barret, Stephen Amell vs Stardust, Shaq, Aaki Bono, and Moneymaker vs Big Show in 3 different Wrestlemanias, and probably 200 other times I'm forgetting off the top of my head.
Jay Carter the thing is they never appeared to be competitors and to my knowledge they never held a title. People can get past celebrity involvements but it becomes irreparable damage when said celebrities are given a top belt to promote something
Their reaction to The Renegade committing suicide, "Not Good", would be kinda funny if it wasn't so awkward and a tragic story
I hate non athletes celebrity appearance period. It just make the wrestler look weak. I also don't like wrestler vs non wrestlers be it any other athletes or a movie star.
Meitei Luwang I will second that I was a right mark when Stephen amell came in and it sort of made sense. Well more sense then big show fight a Ex NBA player. Sorry I'm British and I have never watched basketball apart from space jam
Grammer nazis will have fun with that lol I should of proof read it first
Karl Eisenhauer Don't care about the Grammar dude, even i am weak in grammar. Celebrity appearance does not make sense at all. Why will non wrestling wanna watch their celebrity with a wrestler. Only few I mean very few have worked like Mr.T and Mike Tyson. The reason was Mike was a real badass and Mr.T looks like badass simple. Snooki coming and winning matches dies not help at all.
Meitei Luwang I don't mind them if it's not to often. Like if say snoopdog came in to save Sasha banks somehow. But wcw did it soooo much
Paul Hensley It's a personal view I don't like, if it is good for business it's ok but the main thing does it even help??
the only reason it failed is the writers drove it into the ground with there bullshit story lines and a few others that had creative control doing what they wanted
the hass beens
I definitely agree with the "creative control" being a main reason. The wrestlers should not be the ones making the story lines or deciding what their character does.
However, without that creative control clause, they probably wouldn't have signed that many big names.
Mysterio didn't defect during the Monday Night Wars
To be fair, Insane Clown Posse were in ECW and WWF first. And now they run their own company with JCW.
They got the tittle changes wrong in the year 2000 it was 6 vacantcys and 25 tittle changes
I was at The Ga Dome for both Nitros. Goldberg/Hogan, everyone was literally jumping in their seats & goin crazy & left very happy. Fast foward 6 months to next Nitro at GA Dome, Finger Poke Of Doom, everyone was pissed & left upset, go away heat, not good heat. That night they killed the town, & killing Atlanta, when it was their home town & biggest market they were #1 in for 20+ yrs, was the beginning of the end.
When I was a kid before my high school years. I was a huge wrestling fan. The WWF (WWE) to me was always a first class company to me. I always viewed WCW as second rate. But what turned me off from it was that it got to a point where I could predict most of what was going to happen. My biggest issue was...was that they never let the good matched conclude in a fair way. It was to much match interuptions. I got tired of that, and stopped watching wrestling all together as I got more into playing sports myself.
Warrior vs Hogan at Halloween Havoc didnt completely push the main event off the show. The main event was Goldberg vs DDP and the PPV cut off after the first tie up. WCW didn't give refunds because there was no way for them to with all the different cable companies so instead they aired Goldberg vs DDP the next night on Nitro.
great job guys !
Rey Mysterio Jr actually didn't defect. He was in the WCW until it died, it wasn't until after the Invasion that he came into the E
Will you do the top 10 reasons tna might go under?
Vader Clone? I can't google that name.
Other reasons might include the talents coming to WWE like Styles
Judy bagwell on a pole match was an all time classic.
Got to number 4 in the video and realized Larson was wearing a Slap Nuts shirt and I couldn't stop laughing
Here's a challenge. Top 10 ways TNA can rebuild before it goes under.
most commonly accepted figure for the sale was about $4million.
The last time I watched Steve and Larson they were still on TTFTW. Just hearing them mumble takes me back.
Why mention ICP? Jay was an actual trained wrestler who worked Indy shows throughout his life.
I remember being 6 years old and watching WCW and WWF and the moment Ik WCW was going under was the finger-poke of doom i mean wtf man really and I turned on WWF see Foley win the title
Never give any wrestler Creative Control, ever! It's not good for business.
Kevin Nash is the Main Reason I think. He and Hogan were egomaniacs.
When a Man becomes Booker and put himself as a World Champion (with a Taser) something goes wrong. He bully the Cruiserweights, make them laughable (do you remember he powerbombed Rey Mysterio 3 Times. Later they go to WWF), he killed Bryan Clark who had an 27-0 Winning Streak and would have become a new Goldberg-Hunter. And later he give his Title to Hulk Hogan (Fingerpoke of Doom) and try to reunite the NWO.
How it should be:
Goldberg had just lose fair by DDP or Sting before. And then they should made a 4 Man Feude with 3 Million Dollar Guy Bret Hart who was absolutely missmanaged in the NWO. And the NWO should have come to an End, after Sting beat Hogan fair and clearly on Starcade.
You guys should fantasy book WCW!!! You could start from Goldberg loosing to Nash!!! How would Steve and Larson Save WCW from its demise!?!?!?
With all this James Ellsworth storyline taken a bit too far,
Top 10 Storylines which were stretched to death.
Top 10 Storylines which ended at the right time.
The Renegade was Rick Wilson, not Rick Williams.
Love you guys, you got me back into wrestling
Love how at least half of this list is blaming WCW's failure on Hogan
It was hogan
Oh speaking of ICP they have said that Russo wanted Shaggy 2 Dope as cruiserweight champion but they declined because they didn't want it to interfere with their touring schedule
Fantasy tag match.. Wcw vs wwf.. Who wins.. Hogan, Nash, Hall & Macho vs Stone Cold, Rock, Undertaker & HHH? Who wins?
What would the wrestling world be like today if the Monday Night Wars was still going on! Thats what i always think about, not if WCW won but if they were still going at it even today!
Your guys rule. Oh and can do one on ECW.
If members of your rival company came over claiming they could help your company grow,and you never question why are they here,what happened that made you leave the then WWF,I got issues with that.
Went into this expecting to hear "I'M THE MAN" a lot. Was not disappointed.
In defense of ICP in WCW they were trained by Sabu's uncle and they did wrestle a bit in WWE before that
smashed the like button.
and my phone. 😥
i love you guys your awsome
what happen to the vince russo and jeff jarget shirt
The death of WCW had more to do with Turner selling the company to Time Warner than bad booking. If bad booking is all it took then the WWF should have been out of business by 1995. In fact, listening to Bischoff on Stone Cold's podcast(I'm gaining more and more respect for Bischoff), apparently things were so bad at the WWF that they got rid of all the water coolers at Titan Tower because they couldn't afford the water contract. Anyhoo, the thing that kept the WWF afloat was the fact that Vince put a lot of money back into the company and that they had TV contracts be they USA, TNN, or whatever. When Turner sold the company and the powers that be decided that they didn't want wrestling on their networks(TBS/TNT). According to Bischoff, when they brought him back, they wanted to take a break to restructure and pretty much start from scratch but Time Warner wouldn't give WCW a TV deal so a potential new owner for WCW eventually backed out and the company died a slow cruel death until bought by Vince. I believe that if Time/Warner allowed WCW to air on one of their networks, the company might have survived. IMO, WCW going out of business was the worst thing to happen to pro wrestling.
Double J. Don't get me wrong he can be a great wrestler, in fact, I think WCW blew a great opportunity with him during his first run with them, but, as he was when he came back, he couldn't seem to draw flies to shit, yet, it felt like WCW was trying to make him their top guy. Meanwhile, by that point, you had Austin and Rock as your top babyfaces, and H as your top heel. If they'd had the right angle with him the first time around, he might have been a better draw, and maybe, someone they could have tried to build around.
It couldnt really work with bret because they had no choice but to wait, ive heard he had a no compete no tv clause so he had to wait it out.