'Concrete cancer' testing costs Central Texas families thousands
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
- ASR, or “concrete cancer,” is a pool construction defect potentially impacting thousands of families while putting pool builders and subcontractors out of business.
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Ancient Roman concrete lasts 1000s of years... but modern concrete sucks.
The secret is volcano ash.
@@BlueCollarBandithow is volcanic ash the secret to self replicating concrete? The Roman concrete is a living creature. It’s coral like being 🪸 that lives above ground. That is why it is so weird and hard to replicate.
Ancient Rome cared about quality and how their craftsmanship represented their country. Unlike these fly-by-night companies who just care about making a quick buck.
They mixed with saltwater which makes concrete stronger. It's a lost art
@@DagNeb_ItI’m sorry WHAT?!🤣
That couple went into debt for a pool. A pool!
Silly Humans.
Wait till you hear who 81 million voted for...
That's how you afford a large ticket item, especially if the interest is low.
@@Hexniliumor you don't buy things you can't buy with cash
what did u expect from Yuppies?
@@Lumpia_In_Texassilly humans, thinking that they must spread their sillyness with every squawk.
This tester guy is making bank
First thing I thought
$130,000 for a pool... 😮
That's for the decking and s pool as well. That's not a cheap pool they have either. 🤪
Borrowing $130k against your house for a pool is dumb.
That pool does not look worth 130k , rip off.
How about the foundations of big complexes and high rises that were recently built?
Oh if that is cracking , do not set foot near that place.
Shhhh one crisis at a time please!!!
😬
I was asking myself almost the same question: How about all the houses built in 2020?
@@carmenf8825 Recent tornadoes in Texas and the damage caused to homes should answer your question. Cheap Cheap Cheap
Cause contractors use the cheapest concrete they can get…
I test concrete for a living, and its unfortunate these homeowners are taking core samples after the concrete has been set. If homeowners pay for it to be tested WHEN the concrete is originally poured you cast a minimum of 5 4x8 cylinders and those get strength tested at 7 days, 28 days and/or even 56 days. If you are already paying thousands for the cost of a swimming pool, the cost of paying a materials tester to be on site to test not only the compacting of the soils beneath the pool before the pour, but testing the concrete for air, weight, theoretical max density, temp during the curing process and slump is such a small percentage of what you are already paying. Most homeowners should be having this done on all foundations, interior and exterior slabs but don't want to pay for the tests - and this is the sad story to saving money.
We live in San Diego County. We filled our pool with dirt and turned it into a dry streambed with plants about 15 years ago. It sure saves a lot of water! And electricity and chemicals and we don't have to clean it every week.
And you can't swim in your backyard either
@@richardnewman960 We found we were not using it - only paying money for electricity, water, and having to maintain it. So we filled it with dirt and have had no regrets. Water here will become more and more scarce due to farms growing alfalfa draining the Colorado river. We put in 5,200 gallons of rain tanks to water our fruit trees during the hot summer months. I used to think we should have turned our pool into a rain tank, but then I realized that a pool can pop out of the ground when it is empty.
always the problem with filling a pool is when you come to sell the home there was once a pool done there with permits so theres a record of it with the city. if you fill it permitted and to code its not big deal but that includes demo of the pool which means taking the shell out.
@@joshjmfa We never even dreamed we would need a permit. We hired a company to fill it. They punched holes in the bottom and filled it with dirt. It is kind of nice as it is a walkway around the planted bed. In rare extremely heavy rains, the water does collect but it drains in a couple of days. Well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it when we sell the house, maybe in 10 years (due to our age) and the pool will have been filled for 25 years by then. We also added 5,200 gallons of rain tanks to water our fruit trees in the hot weather, but they do not require a permit. I called the city and they said as long as they were not super tall, it would be OK (e.g., not 15 feet tall). Ours are about 7 feet tall. We live in a tract and we have one quarter of an acre.
Using a company called California Pools in Texas? What did you expect?
As a Californian, that company really makes me angry!
On the plus side, it could be entertaining to see Gov. Abbott and Gov. Newsom trade bombastic insults over this company.
California is known for swimming pools... there are lots of companies named for the places where their product is common.
Every pool builder in Austin is facing same problem and dozens/hundreds have filed for bankruptcy and skipped town. Plenty of stories about it.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb No only the new ones, all the O.G. pool/concrete contractors still here still do fine, You can not come to Central Texas, and start pouring concrete, we have fault lines, the ground moves Alot all year round, you have to build a certain way, this goes for all those new buildings in Austin as well, better hope they are using local contractors, this is not some other state, that fault line goes from Mexico all the way up into C.O. I was wondering when this was going to happen.
California closets in Florida does some starter lever wood work
If customers knew the type of people that are hired to work at these pool companies, you wouldnt even dream of paying or installing one
If you spend $130 k on a pool,why wouldn’t you hire an engineer to do testing as it’s being installed??
the engineer doesn't do the test, a construction materials testing company does, the engineer is someone who determines what the specs for the building project must be, then the "CMT" tests the concrete to see if it falls within those specs, if a concrete truck fails those specs then you reject the truck until it does pass.
You comment is full of nonsense.
I can tell alot of people don't understand the construction process and put too much in the contractor. Testing & Materials tests concrete as well as mortar among other things.
Fiberglass or vinyl liner pools won’t have this problem and are less expensive.
Fly ash is very cheap but as they stated the supply is dwindling. But there are numerous and even better alternatives than fly ash for concrete. Silicas and calcined pumice can be used. Because they are natural products, they are abundant. It will drive up the cost per yard, but it will be far cheaper in the long run.
So, do they only use the silica’s and or pumice for home construction? I am not versed in how the concrete for pools differs from other types of concrete.
Exactly, fly ash was only used because it was a waste product that coal plants were desperate to dispose of. Much of it has nasty heavy metals (mercury/lead etc).
@@angelinimartiniSeems all types of concrete were affected in that part of Texas. But this problem really only affects concrete that's submerged or subject to constant moisture, like pools.
Obviously there was no testing of the concrete during the construction process. While the concrete supplier bears the most responsibility, the contractor probably knew the supplier but still should have performed the testing. Somebody didn’t know what they were doing or they DID know and is trying to get away with subpar work.
the concrete supplier bears no responsibility - the contractor orders the concrete, he tells the supplier the specs. If it isn't tested, then you don't get to blame the supplier. generally for residential work, its up to the homeowner to request and pay for the testing. This isn't up to the contractor to decide if it needs testing. You as the homeowner should educate yourself before a project like this instead of trusting a contractor to know everything. Be involved and do your homework before something like this. I test concrete for a living and not a single homeowner does any testing.
Shortcuts, create long delays.
Why can't they drain the pool, apply a durable liner, and refill?
Right?!?! Its no wonder these people got snookered.. 130k for that pool. Seriously, I feel for them but if feels like these people are learning how to be adults.
That is what I was thinking, but with the concrete ready damaged it may only buy time.
That should be on the concrete supplier... the contractor cannot control the batch and what goes in the concrete.. Concrete supplier is at fault..
Agreed.
This is the second story I’ve seen on this. They haven’t said where the problem is. Was it the concrete company, or with the subcontractor asking for the wrong concrete
It will be. It will be class action and it will take decades to litigate
@@jjlpinct you’re assuming the business is in question can actually pay out such settlements. The pool companies are already going out of business in large numbers.
So there are 2 topics here that are getting intertwined. One is concrete porosity and another is ASR, reactivity of the concrete or aggregates.
Most concrete companies use aggregates approved for use in their local DOT and ASR testing of those aggregate are saved by the DOT. If there are problems restricted uses are put in place in the comments. DOT work is a significant portion of business for the concrete industry so adhering to DOT standards are very common. Then in any region there are usually 2-3 cement producer. The concrete company should test reactivity of aggregates with the cement. In wet conditions with corrosive chemicals it will accelerates ASR if your concrete is reactive.
Concrete over time (not a couple of years) in wet conditions where chlorides are present will slowly deteriorate concrete even when concrete is designated as not reactive. To mitigate this, decreasing the porosity of concrete is a great tool. Slag, silica fume, fly ash, and waterproofing admixtures are all tools to increase the performance of concrete in wet corrosive environments.
Most likely the aggregates used are reactive and not purposed for an appropriate use, and no preventative measures (i.e. - slag) was used in the concrete mixes. It will be interesting to see the contract the concrete vendor and pool company had. Did the concrete company disclose the risk of not following the standard practice to meet a price point?
I'm thinking the word "kickbacks"😮
Same thing happened to my newly poured back patio. Huge cracks and some go all the way through the entire depth of the cement. The city decided it was "normal". I had to get 14 piers put in by a foundation company but it is still cracking. The areas around the posts are particularly affected. The foundation guy said the pour was too thin. Sickening that the city said it was normal and added that that company always gets approved!
The gunite company warranties the gunite. Not the pool builder.
You are not entering a contract with the gunite company. The builder is responsible for the quality of the concrete.
@@tjv6976 pool builder signs contract with gunite company
I love my fiberglass pool that cost less than 1/4 what these people paid
We see examples of poor quality all the time in our industry. So many times, clients will see our estimate but opt to go with a CHEAPer competitor .
It ends up costing them more because the unskilled cheaper repairs have to be corrected.
There is a reason not to buy a house with a pool, and a reason they can cost you 20% sales price. You can remove it to get that value back, sometimes it is less money just to fill it in and re-landscape.
Lots of these small businesses close down and avoid liability. They need to pierce the veil and go after the owners. All kinds of contractors swindle homeowners repeatedly
For sure
A violent reaction from exposure to a mild acid would determine if the alkali levels are too high. I feel like a cheap kitchen ingredient could perform these tests.
The same readily-available, _sour wine_ ingredient I use for removing limescale, perhaps? 🍶😇
E-mail bounce back is second leading cause of missed communications behind e-mail ignoring.
It’s not the pool builders fault it’s the concrete companies fault
Key words "we took out a LOAN" ...for a pool? Maybe you should have thought about not tying to live above your means and it wouldnt have backfired
Why would you care about that? Don’t people take loans for cars and trucks with shorter useful lives?
You don’t know their financial situation; if the house is paid for, a pool loan is a small matter.
Why so judgmental? No one is peeing in your soup.
Financing something does not equate to living above your means
Concrete cancer is an extremely unsuitable name...
So I read an article by gilson company that recommended testing the aggregate mix in the concrete in a lab to assure ASR doesnot occur prior to using. Fly ash has been used to stop the aggregate chemical reaction ( swelling) that causes the cracks. If an ingredient of the concrete mix is changed or left out the mix should be bench tested. Similar to a bakery changing the ingredients of a populate cake. Make a cake with the revised ingredients before baking 100 of them for sale. Very little can be done if aggregate leads to a chemical reaction with the mix.
Do you think this is crazy? I watched CBS Saturday AM earlier, that showed the use of concrete silica dust to cover crops on this Central Illinois farmer's land in Buckingham. This dust was from recycled concrete. It's an experiment where they spread 50T of this concrete dust over a 23 acre field of newly planted corn.
This was supposed to be a way of disposing used concrete and remove carbon monoxide from the atmosphere. They claimed that this would also help the crops and the soil while eliminating greenhouse gasses. And the whole time watching this, I'm thinking ''B.S.'', this can't be safe. But who am I to say?
You are probably right….that doesn’t sound safe at all. It will probably end up causing cancers in the long run from the crops being contaminated…..or it might even make the soil not be able to grow anything in the future….and they are disguising it as “something beneficial”. There have been a lot of things that have been said to be “beneficial” that ended up being very toxic for people and the environment years later…..and this project sounds like one of those that would end up that way. All I know is on the bag of concrete mix it says that you need to protect your skin because it can cause burns or other injuries to your skin….you also shouldn’t breathe the dust from the mix…so that makes me wonder how using concrete’s dust from used concrete could be safe for crops…or for people who work in the fields….of course they don’t usually care about the safety of people who work in the fields.
Carbon monoxide? Carbon monoxide is not a problem in the atmosphere
You could get a lifetime permier membership at a community pool for a tiny fraction of that cost with absolutely zero risk.
Just ringworm
Some people have more money than sense I guess. 130k for a pool?! Pools are tremendous headaches. Everyone that I know that has one complains about the time, maintenance and costs associated. You have a pool built and it just doesn't end there. Be ready to fork over more cash as the years roll by. And these saps got conned by a pool company. The name should have been warning enough. California pools of Texas? That guy made a fortune in the course of a few years and bailed. Like many contractors
I bought a HOUSE for $130K! $10K to drill a core and send it to a lab?! (Gotta call BS there too...) Gonna buy the 6-inch hole attachment and a more powerful drill ;-)
No one is forcing you to buy a pool.
Maybe you could afford a pool if you started charging for your unsolicited financial advice.
BOAT break out another thousand
POOL positively one owner looted
So you hate pools and think everybody else should hate them too.
So this is just a problem with recent pools? Ours was put in 2009 or so.
We have this issue. Used Cody Pools and have a claim but no sample and timeline for demo and replacement yet. Sucks big time as it's the pool along with a lot more damage it will cause to replace.
The Roman’s did a fantastic job of construction . However there are many fantastic improvements of concrete over the years. Please donot judge current technologies on an incompetent contractor/mixer of concrete.
They legally should be allowed to sew them and have it be replaced and fixed properly.
In Texas having a pool put in requires a permit and before the completed pool can be filled with water and used it’s supposed to be inspected. Perhaps inspection requirements need to be improved or current requirements enforced more stringently.
This is why we haven’t renovated our home despite wanting to do so. Where is quality work from these “professionals”? We even had a handyman mess up putting up a small railing in the front porch. He didn’t use that balance thing to make sure it was even and it came out crooked. If you want something done you have to do it yourself or just forget about it.
Concrete sucks now. There's a housing developer near me and the entire brand new neighborhood failed their testing resulting in a fight over who had to pay to have every single street and curb torn out and replaced. And they can do their little sample test, but they can't really test it until after it's poured and set up.
The fly ash hasn't necessarily went down. The plant in my area hired a company to take it to the landfill. 4 tankers run it and each run 3x a day.
That's like saying it's not hot out cuz it's cold in my living room
Uuum with those 130k you should have invested in some wisdom instead. Who in their right mind pays 130k for a POOL??? If you had some ounce of wisdom you wouldn't be going through this headache! This is the price you pay for trying to keep up with the Joneses!!!
These are the same business owners who snitch and throw anybody under the bus who’s doing anything under the right regulations and yet they do it first
“Make sure you have a clause…”
That’s no guarantee! Watching the video shows a pattern of starting corporations, bankruptcy of those corporations, all the while doing business doing business under a new name.
A pool is too much money to gamble on. Don’t do it!
I was following this story closely to understand ASR better (It's been a severe problem in the UK as well) right up to the point Don came into the picture, then I found myself extraordinarily distracted... 😍💪😋
Well theres your problem...."California" pools
If look in youtube there is a civil case from a pool builder in Austin..He stated he sold his company and not liable, but the contract was not wrote correctly...The pool builder stated there are thousands of pools in Austin area that have concrete cancer...
Hope this helps people fight cases in court
Alright now... Pool contractors buy their concrete from a vendor a concrete company so I'm not sure how people see this as solely the pool companies fault. It's made a cement plant and trucked to job site per vendor request.
It is just another case of make more money, cut back on materials and sell to the public
Rich people problems! while others wonder where they will lay thier heads, or eat 😂 poor babies gotta spend $$$
No fly ash, no concrete pours. Simple! I would use an epoxy sealer to fill in the cracks to make it last longer.
The "experts" literally circles cracks with a chewed up chalk. I definitely ain't hating though if people are willing to pay it's all game.
You don't test the mix for "ASR elements." lol. You test the mix to ensure everything needed in the mix is actually there and in the correct ratios.
Can this affect the foundation of your home!?
Fly ash is a cheap additive "super fine filler" used in place of graded fines. It's only purpose is to make the material more workable by filling in the voids.
Anyway pools in the drought zone should be limited to small dipping pool..
Ok so let’s leave some coal plants open. The byproduct will just have to start getting manufactured anyway so why not get energy from it too?
Fly ash is HIGHLY TOXIC
It is easier to use the city pools. So much less headache.
Why are the contractors getting sued it should be the ready mix provider
Well, apparently, the people that have the swimming pool should’ve been more research of the company sorry bro
Is the concrete allowed to fully cure before it’s filled? Does this make a difference?
Yes, at least 30 days.
Pool = A hole in the ground to throw money into.
Guess who should have been insured for the pool
You're better off with an above ground pool these days.
Unsellable on the housing market.
California pools of Texas doesn't sound like the best company just from the name choice
Get a fiberglass tub pool.
So it’s not causing human cancer..just crazy debt load.
Fly ash from burning coal? Guess Austin does want to have more coal power plants, win, win...
130000$!!!!
Ah, the typical unintended consequences as a result of the war on fossil fuels.
Hmmmm who says you can't use flyash? Epa
Unelected bureaucrats
You idiots don't listen. There's a shortage.
1st world issues. Sucks for the owner
It's because the idiots pouring the concrete didn't add fly ash.
You mean the idiots mixing the concrete
The concrete provider is ultimately responsible given they provided a material unfit for purpose .
Given the outbreak and scale of the issue , it would seem some concrete producer changed the source of their aggregate .
Don't blame it on a fly ash shortage, blame it on the quarry .
But if there is a lack of fly ash…and fly ash is needed….then it has to be blamed on a lack of fly ash and no concrete structure is safe without it. And this isn’t the fault of the concrete provider….but is the fault of who caused the fly ash shortage to begin with. This wouldn’t have happened and wouldn’t have been a problem if it wasn’t for the lack of fly ash.
@@starshine3588
No, it’s the fault of the concrete provider. Instead of providing nothing they decided to provide defective material because they wanted the money.
So this is not cancer ! Click bait !
Y'all stop shaming the concrete guy for concrete cracking no one can stop it
Sorry isn’t moving away from coal. Get a grip
You hired a company called California Pools… enough said.
Epoxy injection
Planned obsolescence.
"Investment" ?!? Really?!? lol Like was said earlier...."silly humans."
All concrete cracks 😂
Pools should be outlawed. Miss use of water.
We waste FAR more water on grass than pools.
It’s the aggregate.
It’s the fly Ash.
Suing the pool company is likely a waste of time and money. Going after the supplier maybe, but may be a dead end too. Often work contracted by companies and government will require a surety bond. That's about the only real legal protection one has. Other than that, it's buyer beware.
A pool is not an investment. Money spent adding a pool does not cause a proportional increase in home value. A pool is a conveinience and a luxury.
Sounds like something from California.
Yes, but it’s actually in Texas.
beach sand has salt throughout. Beach sand is unsuitable to use in concrete mix. Roman Concrete did not use beach sand - it uses volcanic ash with lime.
And what about the Cement co. who mixed the concrete what do they Pay out for faulty material?
Of course, let's blame the pandemic also.
Govt should be responsible, if no fly ash then concrete should not be made without it. They know what is going on, and possibly deliberate. Besides pools what else was built upon concrete with no fly ash?
“We” are the government. Please make a case why we should pay for other people’s pools.
@leestebbins5051 they are supposed to pay all of our bills but that is another topic. 18 usc 8
130,000 dollars for a hole in the ground filled with water is definitely a bigger a problem 😂😂😂😂
They can't find fly ash and yet they are literally dumping it in a whole here in middle Missouri 🤦♂️
First look in to how you make gunite be for accusing any body and every body has a solution after the problem
It's hard to be sympathetic when someone spends their disposable income on garbage
Choose coal and a hole. Not all electric b.s.
Baby girl in the purple dress is looking amazing and her feet look beautiful
Decades of republican leadership in Texas is showing its benefits... 😂🤣🤦🏻♂️