Rarer Than The Singer?! "JSB" Colt 1911A1 | Walk-In Wednesday
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- In this video, we show you a gun that may be even rarer than the Singer, a WW2 Colt 1911A1 with "JSB" inspector proofs!
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There is less of them but the Singers were made like a Swiss watch, to me, that's what makes it special.
I agree.
They weren't as quiet as a sewing machine though.
Fewer , not less.
I understand the point you are trying to make. Especially for the MILSURP collectors. But I suspect the Swiss watch comparison is oversold.
Sure. They are valuable guns. They are rare. And they seem to be made “better” than other vendors’ contract guns of the period.
But “Swiss watch” good? What does that mean? Modern full custom good? 95% or greater lower lug engagement good? Zero barrel bump good? Perfect slide and frame rail engagement?
I’ve never had a chance to take a Singer apart. So maybe they are THAT good? But I’m going to have to see it in person to believe any WWII production 1911 is “Swiss watch” good.
Regards,
Marky
@@John1911 I suppose you're right and I spoke too soon. Would a new Singer out of the box be what today is match grade? That I can not answer.
IF, in fact, the owner received that pistol from the CMP as a service grade for $1050, then he did in fact win the jackpot. But I guarantee the civilian marksmanship program who sold the pistol would NEVER have knowingly sold a JSB to somebody for 1050. That particular colt would have been auctioned off on the CMP’s website.
I was wondering same. They tend to pull out the really special stuff for auction.
Regards,
Marky
Bloke how du u know it wasn't. And who would have guessed peeps out there with massive cash to blow on a chunk of metal stamped with inspector initial in 1945. To me doesn't make it more valuable what makes it valuable would be a war story with it or who carried it. Most of them issued to support personnel and sat in a desk or cabinet 😮😢😂❤❤😂🎉😮😅😅yank blimey don't fall 4 the white glove this is one in a million type scam these collector sinners 🎉perpetrate on unsuspecting gomies
Now that the cat is out of the bag you can be sure that CMP will look for "JSB" in their inventory and will only sell them in their 1911 auction.
The rarest of the rare would be the North American Arms 1911's produced in Canada in 1917 I believe. Only 100 tool room examples were made.
True, but they were garbage. The Gov't refused to accept them after testing and the contract was cancelled.
I waited for years to get one, like I was issued in the Navy, but when I found out that you had to jump through so many hoops to get one I was pissed, so I just bought a new Colt. Then while at the local gun candy store one came in, a genuine war time Colt, in like new condition, dang. It could have been one of these.
Get one in the secondary market. They are everywhere.
Regards,
Marky
CMP nothing less brøther M1 Garand gang gang
@@nicholasstilley2370 👍🤜🏼
Back in the 60's aboard the USS Stormes DD780 .. the ship's armory had a number of 1911's .. I always liked one in particular and wrote home to my dad that I was using a 1911 made by the Singer Sewing Machine Co. He had a good laugh! We had firearm practice and saved old cans from the garbage for targets .. That particular .45 I could hit well with .. not so much with the others.
When the CMP was releasing these 1911A1s for civilian sale, they were going through each one and culling out the rare and valuable examples for sale via a separate auction. Apparently like you, the CMP wasn't aware of the value of the JSB inspection stamped guns, but I'm sure they are now. I doubt that any more JSB guns will be released via the normal CMP sales program, but may well show up as "Auction Grade" guns.
Begley also inspected late war S&W Victory models. Charles Pate 's " Secondary Handguns of WW 2" has a bit of information about JSB and tons more of info. Begley was a civilian and attorney.
That’s how collecting never ends. Once you have the 1911 JSB, then if course you have to have the S&W Victory marked one too.
I just got my 1911A1 from the CMP. It's a Field Grade with a Remington Rand slide and 6 digit Colt Frame. It's been reparked probably recently but I'm still happy with it. Sure they are not serious collector pieces but for the price you can't beat it. Now a days you usually can't touch a U.S. property marked 1911 (even a Frankenstein one) for less than $2,000.
I would value the Singer guns well above a few last run guns that happen to have the last inspector's initials on them. I fully understand the value of the Singer guns, I don't understand giving guns a high value because "JSB" inspected them at the end of the run.
Hi Tom, another good video. I recently received a 1911A1 from the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) after roughly a two year wait and found it to be a great deal. I received a Remington Rand in the service grade (best grade available) for $1,050 which included a beautiful hard case, documentation and shipping. For the money, a good gun to take to the range and shoot all afternoon! As a member of the Forks of the Delaware Historical Arms Society you can apply for one of these pistols using the clubs member number.
But according to Tom these were "crap"
So why the big deal on who inspected to pistol. My Hanes underwear was checked by Inspector 12 and I'm selling them (un-used) for 5 Bills
My CMP 1911A1 is a parts bin pistol. The only thing WWII about mine is the frame made in early 1945. Everything else is either Colt part made for the commercial market or Israeli made replacement slide. Definetly not worth the $1050 I forked over for it.
On your 1911 the MSH is serrated but the hammer is checkered. The hammer is not original to the pistol. If the slide stop and thumb safety are checkered then those too are not original to the gun.
That said it's way more original than the mixed breed pistol I bought.
I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed with your CMP pistol. I'm very happy with mine.
@@redcat9436 After mine was delivered I did some research. The folks at CMP decided on very vague descriptions of each grade. There was some debate that the description should have as much info as it does for the M1 Garand. Everyine agreed.
Those descriptions were never updated. One guy solved his problem by selling his pistol for parts.
He got the most from the 1944 Colt frame on GB, $1100. Then the replacement GI slide he said sold for $300. The trigger sold for $300. By then he had recovered the $1050 he spent on the A1. He sold what was left of the pistol in one listing as assorted 1911A1 parts. Those sold for another $200.
You'll always get more for the parts than for the whole item.
I will probably do the same with mine.
I think Id have an easier time finding a Singer than a new 2020 or 2021 Colt!
Good point
Probably pay about the same too. ;-)
the 1911 is an incredible piece of American small arms history and this gun in particular.
None of the CMP auctions go for no where near as low as 1k. You can go look now and there is some mismatched stuff. They have 5 or 6 up right now. This guy probably paid 2500-2600 for this one if it was one won in Auction. He could have received it in just the normal shipped bunch they did but the armors are good about catching auction worthy ones. I think your confused on how CMP did these. They shipped out up to date about 18,000. Then anything they considered more rare than just the regular ol mismatched rearsenaled ones they put up for Auction.
You just missed the last sign up closing date was March 4th. And who knows how long it will take to get it. So, in closing there is two things going on over at CMP. One is they pull numbers for however many they plan on doing this year and then there is the auctions which you can go over and participate anytime as-long as you send in all your qualifying documents.
Thanks for the clarification. I talked to several guys who said they got guns at 800 - 1000, but that may have been years ago. I have no idea how much the seller paid, but it doesn't really matter at all. I paid him what I think was a fair price for a rare gun.
@@LegacyCollectibles I think the ones on the CMP list can choose from Field Grade up to Service Grade. Price is from 850 to 1050. The JSB may have slipped by but that is very nice from CMP. This one seems a lot nicer than the ones they have right now and even the ones on Auction.
@@Flatline74 Makes sense. There was a tag on the gun that said Select Grade
According to a book about Winchester, they had been issued a number series toward the end of WW2 and they tooled up to manufacture them. The war came to an end and they were no longer needed to produce them. However, a trial run of 50 pistols were made. If anyone can find one, you can. I would trade every gun in my collection for ONE .45 with the Winchester markings on it.
This channel is awesome. 100% addicted to it.
It might be rare now, but if the Government has piles of these hidden away, who knows what will happen when they come up for auction? Remember all those rare Morgan Dollars that appeared in the 1960's after a Government clear out?
No this 1911 is not the rarest. The examples produced by North American Arms are the most difficult to find and when available command a premium.
You are correct. I should have said 1911A1
Many collectors don't consider the North American 1911s simply because they were never actually purchased by the US government. NAA 1911s were produced in smaller numbers (less than 100) than the Singers but they usually sell for much less.
Fascinating information! I'm surprised it took me so long to find your channel, glad i eventually did tho!
Keep up the great work!
P.s.- i think part of what i enjoy is that not only am i learning, but sometimes you're learning too. I dont know why, but for me that makes it even more engaging and authentic feeling
A 1911 with a "story" (gun that "served") is more appealing to me, gives me bigger thrill,
than a Singer that is new, unissued, and never "went to war" (even if it is super-rare or "made like a Swiss watch", as someone said above) .
But it is only my point of view…
(living in Europe, I can not own any, issued or unissued, so it is only a matter of looking on the screen for me :)
The Singer's were all issued to the US Army Air Corps, So they did go to war.
That's also why so few are left. The Army Air Force to huge losses especially at the start before they had P51s which could escort them almost all the way there and back.
Outstanding video and presentation.
The CMP had a lottery that just ended 3/4/21 - it may be several months until anyone knows if they can get one, the pistols go from 880-1080 depending on condition, most reviews of the pistols have been positive.
According to Tom he says they are "crap"
I have been collecting military and all types of gear and firearms for over 35 years me my dad and grandfather so I have seen a lot,and I love the vids and your Chanel 2👍👍 .
Can you please tell me and the rest of us what’s the big deal about this JSB stuff ? there is a lot of people who like to know.
I have never been Abel to figure it out I get singer and the rear 500 and the history and story and it’s cool 😎.
Now I could see if it was Audie Murphy‘s 45 or Patons 45 or colt 45 that was captured by Rommel and he carried it during the war but I’m not getting why a certain guy who worked for a company who his job was to inspect guns or equipment whatever you have he didn’t use it on the front lines he wasn’t a soldier he was just an inspector who worked at the company to make sure that these guns were in good working condition under military guidelines.
From what I have seen over years the collator world like to hype up the littles thing a mark stamp and so on to raise the prices on items they are selling it just rings to me like the black widow Luger or the black widow P 38 people that made up the term and manufactured the Luger by changing the grips and all other things like that and it sounds cool and they look good but they were getting crazy money at times lol
Just my thoughts and I’m not trying to insult anybody or hurt anyone’s feelings I just would like to know why a single mark or a stamp or somebody who did their job in a plant made these things so much money and I understand it a bit yes you got a guy how looked at 50 guns and then a guy how looked and stamped 10.000 guns less rear that’s all thank you.
I agree with you. Collectors want every variation. A different inspection stamp is a "variation". Soon every different serial number will be a different "variation". By my reckoning, if all the parts interchange, it's the same variation.
@@robertdeen5591 I agree with you my friend....
Dad passed his JSB 1911 down to me when he died. I don't think he knew what a rarity he had....It's also one of the lowest serial numbers (starts with 2359) I've ever seen during my research.
Hi from England 🏴
Awesome video!
When i watch this channel it makes me so envious of you guys in the USA
We have to have a firearms certificate for a high powered airgun!
Love the information and history associated with these firearms 👌🏻
The muzzle end was heat treated and was only done by Colt to my knowledge. It is darker and rather unmistakable.
Rare 1911A1. How about the North American Arms (Canadian Built?).
2.47 gsb guns JSB?? DID I HEAR CORRECTLY
Somehow I was under the impression (I don't remember where I heard? (probably on youtube somewhere?)) that the civilian marksmanship program was legislated out of existence sometime in the sixties (maybe they said that the changes made then (defunding the program and privatizing it's administration) "effectively killed" the program??) I'm glad to see it is still around though.
They still have a website and members, so I think it is still viable.
When the government ran it , it was the DCM up until around 1998 I think. CMP is a non for profit organization. They have to purchase these through the government. So I think surplus went like this at first it was the NRA that sold the U.S mil surp then the DCM and then ultimately the CMP.
@@Flatline74 Not-for-profit my ass. They charge exorbitant prices for parts-bin Franken-guns slapped together from whatever was laying around at the time, and then anything that's actually rare and/or valuable they put up for auction to make even more money. They may be a not-for-profit organization on paper, but not in their daily business.
Tom...I think you hurt some feelings when you said. "So you think you know a lot about guns?" LMAO.
Another good vid. Thanks for posting.
Someone got lucky. There may be a few more JSB pistols at CMP but I bet not very many more.
Especially not now, after he's brought attention to it. You know somebody at CMP's gonna be paying closer attention to the markings now and pulling out anything that's actually worth the premiums they charge for beat-up wartime relics.
@@Malikyte13 Yes, one suspects the CMP is getting really good at picking out the best collector pistols. A Switch & Signal on a Singer receiver -- not likely to come through the pipeline at this point but I suppose hope can spring eternal, or at least until the CMP has shipped the last of its relics.
Thank you for the content. I have a JSB Colt and enjoyed your video.
Thanks, very interesting again :-)
I have a Remington 1903 “Springfield” that was built in early 43 I think, it was before they made the A303. The stock that is on it now I guess,after rearsenal has the JSB cartouche. This is confusing though because mine has the original barrel. So no telling how the stock ended up on there.
After I watched this vid., I checked my 1911, and: IT HAS the JSB stamped on it!!! Maybe I'll send it in to Legacy for their appraisal....
Well, it's an inspectors marks soooo there's that. But to a collector it's the maker of a gun/model that is far more important. Then only if one is splitting hairs then the number of that gun inspected by a certain person would that come into play. Soooo Singer made 1911 will always be far more valuable.
You will have me searching my books now. If your reading this do you happen to have a copy of the Police Lugers book by Ed Tinker?lol
Thanks Tom.
Rich.
Rare indeed but the Singers have a much better history, story, manufacturing and quality. That will always command a higher premium.
I am not that impressed with the Singer’s anymore because there are so many high quality fakes that even the professionals can’t agree on. The was a popular auction house that recently got tied up in all that and it’s not the first time.
You are the "Indiana Jones" of the guns, great Colt, great video, thanks Tom Saludos desde Colombia!!!
These are rare enough that Clawson was keeping up with how many he had seen and I am sure you may have seen the same info but he had seen more than 12 or 13. I also just found out it did come thru the auction side and not the mass numbers side. Good grab, wanna sell it? Lol
Thanks Tom , great video, and as usual, you are the man when it comes down to these war relics.
Nice video and a nice special Colt,but i would like a Singer insted also😉
Shouldn't the P on the slide and frame match as they were marked with the same stamp?
Great find and more so paper trail 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Great video. Good information I did not know either. 🇺🇸🇨🇱
Thanks...ln 1962 l was in the NRA as such you could order a 1911 new still in wrapped in gue lol in the box for $25.00 l still have mine....!
This is not fair - You always keep the best guns
lol... i probably would too if I was in his shoes.
Another Walk in Wednesday history winner. 👏🇺🇸
The Holi Grail is rarerrrrrr..lol Awesome video
Didn't Inglis make 2 or 3 1911s?
Nice gun
The rockola is also very rare.
wow grate vid,,,thank you
It's no hi point but it's nice lol
Nice
I have a WWll rifle that was supposably in The battle at Normandy. How can I check this out?
Thank s
Thank you for sharing
Super, ka Schas !
Got a Remington rand, it's not an A1. Ser# comes back as a colt made 1915?
How much is a slightly pitted Singer 1911 reBlued worth ??? 🤙🏼
Tens of Thousands
@@thomaswhiteman4261 20,000 is good price?
@@alfonsogonzalez2628 i would say yes. But of course would need to see it
@@thomaswhiteman4261 how can I send you pictures?
@@alfonsogonzalez2628 send to
Info@legacy-collectibles.com
Like no 570 from Jakarta Indonesia 🇮🇩 👍🏻
Great video
Would you rather shoot that 76 year old colt or a first run Glock ?
Colt, hands-down. Glocks are overrated hunks of plastic, especially the very early ones.
I have colt with stamp of springfield armory.
nice stuff tom
Arguably
Where do you go for these government auctions?
You have to join the CMP, but I dont think they are offering any guns right now. They have a government website
Just look online or at your local gun shows. CMP is a scam for most stuff. You'll pay through the nose for cobbled-together parts-guns, and if you want something that's actually got some value or rarity to it, you're gonna pay even more at auction. Their 1911s are a good example - CMP knows they're highly sought-after, so they throw whatever garbage they find up for sale and keep the good stuff to sell at auction for more money. You're better off skipping the middle-man and buying from a private seller.
What about the Canadian North American Arms .45s? They are so rare NOBODY has ever seen one!
Now do a mud test with some wolf ammo
I apply to all the lotteries, never win any
Anyone else here apply for the second round of 1911s from the CMP
I got mine in the first round. It was about a two year wait.
Bloke 🎉real nicey....pues dicey bucko...😢😮😊
They always come up with a 1911 that is more rarer than the last or is it more rare brah 🤔
"Arguably"
Thanks for the boost!!
@@thomaswhiteman4261 No worries, beautiful pistol! I would love to have a Union Switch and Signal. I saw a guy the other day got an all matching Ithaca from CMP. Cool things can happen!
Indisputably, I got my MA in linguistics, I know this shiz.
Love you guidance
@@thomaswhiteman4261 It seemed like a good idea in 1989.
Resign as an expert, Willy Wonka won the gold lottery
It’s an 11 point shoot, wtf
I liked it untill you took it apart
It IS NOT a "1911", it IS a 1911A1! And you call yourself a collector /ex-spurt? I think you're just someone with a lot of money to spend.
Dude runs a business. What do you do?