Off-Grid Boat - [DIY Electric Boat Motor | Motor Assembly - Ep.4]
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- My first, and most likely only, attempt to build an inboard electric motor housing/system to host 2 X 10KW BLDC (brushless) water-cooled Golden Motors. The hope is to be able to tap into re-generative possibilities to charge the sailboat Battery bank towards self sustainability and longer periods of off-grid living.
Blog containing useful links related to topics in this episode:
modularhippo.c...
Other useful links:
36' Aluminium Sailboat I am currently building:
bgyachtdesign....
Motors I am using for my project:
www.goldenmoto...
(Sales contact: hunter@goldenmotor.com)
![Off-Grid Boat - [DIY Electric Boat Motor | Motor Assembly - Ep.1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wHFoyxXglfY/mqdefault.jpg)
![Off-Grid Boat - [DIY Electric Boat Motor | Battery Pack - Ep.3]](/img/n.gif)
Max power for a standard alternator v-belt is about 1,2 kW. With your motors you will have 8x the power to transfer. For high power applications there are better suited multi groove belts, 6-10 grooves depending on the power transfer needed.
Hi Johan, Happy Friday! Thank you for the feedback as must admit that I did not even think about that limitation. I have had allot of feedback around this part of the setup and one is to swap the dual pulley system for a single toothed (grooved) timing belt. Your feedback has hammered down my decision to do so even more and for which I am grateful. As I in a single configuration will have more space on the shafts it also allow me to work with a 'wider' belt that should take more load. I will definitely look at load strength now when advised of this before getting the new pulleys and belt. When you say 6-10 groves do you then refer to the minimum amount of groves (teeth) that you need as contact surface on pulley to ensure sufficient load distribution? Thanks again for help!
The threaded bolt to tension the belt is a brilliant approach.
Thank You :) - My hope is that it will work but will not know until the final parts are in place. There is a chance that the sliders will lock them-self and refuse to move freely (a bit like an old drawer if not pulled out perfectly straight). With contact points being metal to metal my hope is that it is not the case but as you know yourself what starts as a good idea in theory is not always working out:)
Just remove 3mm from your upper tensioner bolt brackets. That’ll get the tension bolts back in alignment. While you’re at it, add a couple of lockdown nuts to the tensioner bolts. Use thread locker to all of your mounting hardware to prevent everything from vibrating loose, and causing you more headaches.
All really good feedback, thank you. I did get the 3 mm spacer brackets but still have a bit of miss alignment that I need to sort. Realised that the miss-alignment is not down to difference in width of the components but instead the upper bolt holes not being perfectly straight. Removing, instead of adding material is a very good point though so will definitely use that angle when looking at it again. This will require some more thought so this week I have instead focused on the anti-vibration feet & creating isolation bridge points for the 14S battery cells. Getting there slowly:) - Thanks for taking the time to feedback as appreciated!!
on the housing think about safety first, getting cooling air in and hot air out of the boat and they sell fire extinguishers that will blow at a set temp
@ghoststevens5878 Not a bad idea. The motors and controllers are water cooled, but guess external air-conditioning is also needed, or you would just be pushing hot air around. Never thought of automated fire extinguisher, food for thought. Thank You:)
use a cogged belt like on a super charged dragster,or the cam shaft belts on most cars. electric motors make a lot of torque like now
Thank you for feedback. I have come to the conclusion that it is the way to go. I will most likely also go away from 2 belts and instead just use one belt. The V-belts and pulleys are not wasted though as will work well as 'backup' parts in case ever needed:)
ribbed belts are just a little step up from a v belt
LOCK-TIGHT!
Hi Shaner - Such an obvious and correct solution:) Need to stop overthinking some of the areas:) Thanks:)
for greasing the zerks go to your hardware store and get a compression fitting that fits in the hole and get some 1/8 inch waterline from a fridge for ice maker and then a compression fitting for the zerk and mount it any where you want. The KISS system
@ghoststevens5878 Great idea and know exactly what you mean. Googled a similar solution not to long ago and there are ready made flexible extentions that can be bought of the shelf. As you say, a DIY version should work as well (and is probably also more affordable).
you can do the same for cooling your batteries, they should be in a metal enclosure
Will definetly need some form of cooling. Due to how they look I might put it in a metal framed glass box (perhaps with some neon lighting in it):) worh mentioning is that this is the secondary battery I am building more for fun. The actual primary batteries will be Li-Ion Phosphate:)
I don’t know how accessible the grease nipples would be when everything’s assembled, but it might be beneficial to run extensions that bring them up/out. High up so they won’t be buried in the “engine” bay
Hey @keeniesdead - Thank you for feedback and a great idea. Great minds think alike:) - The cut out you can see in the front and rear plate just in line with the nipple was added there just in case I would need to extend it. As it stands the 45 degree nipple looks accessible BUT that can change drastically when the motor is actually in place in the engine bay as you indicate. That plus my bad back equals potential problems:) Maybe something like this (or even longer) to make it easy [locknlube.com/products/grease-fitting-relocation-kit]? - Definitely room for improvement. Big thank you for pointing it out as may have to give that one some more thought:)
IF you have not done so already , can i suggest Get ride of the double grove pulley on the output shaft get rid of the two separate belts replace both with a single belt and single groove pulley for the out put shaft and then in the space more or less where the belts cross eachother just below the inner set of bolts holding the motors to the main face plate add an idler pulley . TOGETHER with your belt tension system you have ALREADY designed , This would be a much easier way to do things and get the same result if you have a concern about belt slipping use a toothed belt . Lesss parts and i feel like it would be a lot easier on maintenance to have one belt to change rather than the two because you could run into the issue as the belts stretch as they wear in they could end up contacting each other making them wear faster and failing . As it is you might have one motor to get back home but i'm not sure how much a single motor is going to propel your 36 foot sailing boat . If you have a situation where you get stuck with only one motor and one is not enough to get you home you might as well not have either , If you know what i mean ? This is only my thoughts . Apart from that i just randomly found your channel and i am not HOOKED !
Hi ZV3000 - Thank you for allot really great ideas and food for thought. Feel silly for admitting it but a sing a single grove pulley on prop shaft did not even cross my mind. Maybe because I was influenced by some of the professional solutions I have seen on the market tend to us two separate pulley belts when using two motors. The irony is that I did not go for timed (tooted) belts as I could not find a configuration where a double grove pulley would fit and align with the single pulleys (did not have enough space on shafts). With one belt that issue has resolved itself. I believe that in the right conditions I can power the boat on one motor but nothing stops me from carrying a smaller belt for emergency so in case one motor fails I can still fit the shorter belt against one motor anyways. I am not familiar with idler pulleys so will read up on that in conjunction with the ideas you have. Big thank you for taking an interest and more so for taking the time to share the improvements😊
I have failed a lot more than succeeded in the things I have designed, I use the KISS system as much as possible. If you want to bounce a idea off someone, I'll lend you a ear
@ghoststevens5878 I would say that it is the absolute best way to learn:) - Nice one, will take you up on that as many decisions left to make before becoming something useful:) Done some progress on the battery pack so next episode is more focused on that. Hope to find some time for the housing soon.
Loctite 271 instead of lock washers. Also, Nyloc nuts are a one time (maybe twice, if you're lucky) use fastener. They are great for what they do but each time they are loosed/tightened they give up a lot of their abilities. Sort of surprised you didn't use a single belt with a spring-loaded tensioner, would have been simpler and probably cheaper and no re-tensioning required. If you're sticking with the v-belt setup take a motor with you when you have you machinist gouge the keyway. If you don't and there ends up being an aberration it's on you instead of him. Thread the adjustment blocks and use a jam nut on the screws to set them. You're making things difficult with the balls. Again, a spring tensioner/single belt would have been so much easier.
Hi Carl - Thank you for reminding me of the good old Loctite 271, so much better than the initial lock washer idea:) - Using one single belt is a brilliant idea and will also solve my initial issue where I could not find a timed (tooted) double grooved pulley that was small enough to align two belts. With one belt I should be able to use times (tooted) pulleys instead which will reduce need for manual tension significantly. With that setup, and regular maintenance checks (which I would do anyways) I think I would be good even without a spring loaded tensioner (saying that, will still give that some though as if easy to incorporate to the existing design then worth doing). In relation to the adjustment blocks. The upper blocks are threaded and instead of the balls at end of bolts (as you say) I could just put two jam nuts at the bottom. Tightened they should stay in place. Not sure about threading the bottom blocks as when I tension the bolts the motor shaft moves vertically upwards as the bolt is fixed and eventually the bolt hits the pulley. But simply using two jam nuts is not a bad idea at all (Thank You). The machinist is a friend of mine so in this scenario any aberrations would have to be owned by me, saying that, taking the motor with me for peace of mind is not a bad idea anyways. Big thank you for great feedback and ideas:)
Loving the content and how it’s coming together. Would some thread lock on those bolts save the need of using the spring washers?
@WingingItBoatingonaBudget Not a bad idea at all:) Thank you very much as will give me the 10mm grip I need and making sure they do not loosen during vibrations. How is the pai ting coming along?:)
@@modularhippo the painting is ‘on hold’ at the moment. Last couple of weeks we’ve been heading to our home mooring, so will continue with the painting and ‘other’ jobs once we are there.
Looking forward to next instalment of your project. 👍
@@WingingItBoatingonaBudget Guess a bit weather dependant as well:) With boating being a never ending maintenance game I am sure you find things to maintain/improve inside when the weather turns bad:)
really nice build man, keep up the great work! quick google search says each motor has 13.41 hp. do they combine to make 26.82 hp or is there a variance? now that im thinking about it, youve put a lot of time and money into building a 27hp powerplant. it is awesome, and the future of propulsion...but imo at this time illogical because of cost. i still love it. but a brand new mercury 30 hp motor with warranty is only about $3k. i assume you have more than 3k into your setup by the time you factor all of the parts and pieces to make it a complete system. i know eventually the solar charging will pay itself off, but roughly how long will that be? if i had to guess, several years. i wish the cost of the components would come down so this technology could be more widely implemented.
Thanks Christopher for taking an interest and the kind comment - It is starting to take shape and will hopefully become something useful down the line:) I have had allot of feedback on improvements so will be some tweaks here and there as we go along (the power of crowd-sourcing):)
love the shirt! this project is awesome!!! when this thing hits the water don't forget to give us all the data, Speed, battery draw, rpm, propeller specs, battery voltage, system voltage, wire size, battery draw at 80% throttle and anything else you can think of (That's our crack). Ps you know how you always overthink everything? That is what might be going on with the little ball in the belt tensioner, I have an 81 Corvette that has some belts on it and there is no ball at the end of the tensioner bolts. food for thought, PLEASE keep us posted.
Hey Doug - Thank you for comment and for taking an interest in the project!! Ahhh, that t-shirt is magic, get so many comments and smiles from people when they see it:) - Sure, will make sure it is all shared as my best chance to get some great ideas and feedback from people like yourself (nothing beats crowd-sourcing):) - In relation to the ball solution, yep definitely an over-tinker idea. @carlbeaver7112 - mentioned to just use two jam nuts instead to achieve the same outcome so will give that a go:) To be continued:) Thanks again!
Love that somebody beat me to my design, been trying to get my boat to this point but have had a lot of issues with other parts of my life. Any chance you could send me the files for this part of the build and specs on your boat and electric motors? Also do you have a patreon account. So happy to finally found a great motor setup for dual motors. I am going use it a bit differently, though. I will only use one at a time as I will keep the other in standby. This way I will never be without a working motor.
Thank you, for the video and I look forward to seeing the build to it's completion and testing.❤
Hi SC_Autumn - Thank you for the comment and happy to hear that you like the design. It is still in design mode so still a way to go before a proven concept but getting there:) The boat I am building the motor setup for is a 36', aluminium 8000 Kg displacement multi-chine (hull). If you email me on contact@modularhippo.com I can send you what I got so far. I do not have a Patreon account but very kind of you to ask. Dual motors (one as a backup) sounds like a good plan. Hopefully as the motors are brush-less they should be pretty robust. I will keep an eye on my inbox. Thanks:)
Why don't you cut threads into the blocks for tightening the belts. So you could just use the screws to move the motors instead of this ball solution that honestly looks a little sketchy to me.
Hey Keyem4504 - Thank you for feedback. My first idea was to thread the lower blocks and to leave the upper block none-threaded. This would have pulled the motor up and kept the tension bolt static leading to the pulley eventually hitting the bolt. I guess what you are saying is to thread both upper and lower blocks so that bolt rises with the tension. I might just have to go that way (Thank You). I will most likely drop the ball idea as overkill and a potential failure point and try the same but instead with two lock-nuts at the bottom. If that is not sufficient I will try your idea (as will mean cutting two new lover blocks as the hole is now to big to cater for threads for the bolt size in place):) - Big thanks you for taking time to provide a better solution:)
you should power coat the whole thing and add another layer of protection
Hey - Thank you for the feedback:) I have played with the idea as it would not only add extra protection but would also aesthetically look better in my eyes (some prefer the raw clean metallic look). The reason I have not yet committed to it is that the 8 x sliding bolts that goes through the rare plate and holds the sliding motor rings are designed for exactly 10mm thick plate they go in to. If adding layers of paint they will be to tight and no longer work for sliding the rings. I guess I could tape (cover) those areas before coat and coat the rest) or have new bolts made to compensate for this but leaving that decision towards the end. I have had allot of old motorcycle frames power-coated in the past and love the result, saying that boat people have advised me that normal paint in marine environment is preferred over standard powder-coating for longevity (not sure if true or not so would have to look deeper into that one). I will definitely give it some consideration:)
Nice concept! How important will it be to align the rpm of the motors?
Hi Peter - Thank you for your question and glad you like it. Personally I would like to avoid energy waste/loss which could occur if one motor have to slightly drag the other. I do not think small discrepancies would harm the components but could potentially effect life expectancy unevenly. The motors/motor controllers comes with an app that shows the RPM and also allow me to adjust it. I also plan to add an external RMP counter (magnet based) on each shaft and use the feedback from the two to make sure that they have the same output. The motor controllers are controlled by the same potentiometer so if the power is distributed evenly and the RPM match after tweak then I think we are good:)
Following with interest ! Are you aiming to match the torque / rpm of the old engine output shaft, will you need a new prop, and did that affect your choice of v-belt?
Hi Keith - Thanks for taking an interest. In my case the actual boat (36' aluminium mono-hull) is being built in parallel so the prop I ordered was calculated based on the boat and motor spec I provided the prop company with. As I have a limited prop-budget, do not mind loosing a knot or two due to going re-generative I settled on a [18' x 11 RH. 3 Blade Propeller .43% DAR]. There is allot of better propellers out there but that comes with 5X the price tag (and the way I see it will only give me an extra knot or two). The boat I am building was built with a Yanmar 39HP motor in mind but have come to understand that it is hard to compare combustion with electric so have decided to go with an 'educated guess'. I believe that with a direct translation I come in around 27HP between the two motors but with a torque that is higher. The actual V-belt was decided from the pulleys and the initial reason for going v-belt was that I struggled to find timed belts (teeth) that would fit my solution. There is a big chance that I might need a higher gearing down the line (a bigger pulley on the prop shaft) and I have made provisions for this to make sure that there is plenty of room. During live tests I will be able to work out best gearing in balance to RPM and torque (and related power consumption) - But still a bit to go until I get to that point:) I guess you have a boat already and looking to go electric?
@@modularhippo I have a 36" westerly - with an old but well maintained volvo penta - my plan is that when it is eventually time to re-engine, then i'll go electric - but who knows when that will be. My problem will be finding room for the batteries - the only real option is the space currently occupied by the fuel tank, which isn't large. If the old smoker can hang on for as long as possible, then perhaps in the future energy density will be vastly improved. At the moment it doesn't make financial or environmental sense to do it early - but if I was building from new.... definitely. So my interest is at the moment is curiosity more than anything :-)
@@KeithBaileyEsq - Still new to boating so had to Google the 36" westerly, really nice looking boat!:) - I was playing with the idea of using the fuel tanks for battery space but instead will use them for water (and if I ever come to revert back to combustion I can use them for fuel again). Instead I will remove 200Kg from the ballast area centre area and place batteries there to obtain same balance. Guess easier for me to do during building then modifying existing boat as you say. I agree fully that it does not make financial/environmental sense but the urge to build is to big:)
@@modularhippo There's a new friend of mine that has 15kw torqueedo on a 44 feet Cat (25000lbs) annd runns 16 inches props with 12 inches pitch. With 2 motors setup like the GREAT demonstration here, I have chosen to go 18 inches with 15 inches pitch as there will be 2 motors with I estimate a 3:1 gear ratio. My cat is 38 feet and will weight 18000lbs. So with about 500RPM (once adjusted) I should be cruising at about 6 knots, what I find very reasonable... your toughts ?
next video please....
Hey Arnel - Thank you for comment:) In relation to the battery packs, what I am working on next is some of the cabling and isolator points. Allot of the parts are easiest done with 3D printer so need to get one ASAP so that I can start printing:) Hopefully not to long before next episode:) Thanks:)
"The difficult we do right away. The impossible takes a bit longer". No pressure... You RoCk Arnel
@modularhippo please go on. I am pretty excited about your project.
@ovalwingnut oh yeah, I am so excited.
The link for the motors doesn't work. In anyone of the videos.
Good Catch!! For some reason the URL's had been cut when copied and pasted the text. Now updated on all the related videos:) Address below if you want to check them out:) Thanks again!!
www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htm
@@modularhippo thanks
you did a good job of that but it is way over complicated, your tension bolts are backwards. sorry that is not going to work, I would take the tensioners of and find three cogged pulleys in the size you need and look at the differant length cam belts for a car engine and have a welder weld the slots so the motors don"t move and then put a tensioner in between the motors pushing down on the belt. google 2 electric motors in a boat and you should be able to find pics of what I am talking about. good luck
Big thank you for taking time to provide constructive feedback. Everything I design tend to be a bit overengineered and due to this some of the parts may need re-designing. I am so far down this design that I will need to see it to proof of concept. If I fail I will definitely try the more standard approach of using fixed motors and a belt tensioner instead. I have seen other designs similar to mine that seems to work fine so hopefully there is more than one way to crack an egg:) If not there is always plan 'B'. :)
1st time viewer. I like your channel from the get go No Hype. Just good content with high production value :) Very COoL [and] sub-worthy I might add... And may I say I haven't seen that many "cells" since I was in a El Salvador prison This looks like a GR8T project so I'll pipe down and pay attention. Cheers from So.Ca.USA 3rd House On the Left (pls call before stopping by)
Hey Oval-Winfnut, ha ha, what a great message (thank you). Hope your time in El'Salvdor prison was not too tough:) Will stick to production format and will hopefully mout it all on a boat one day:) Tha ks for taking time to comment👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@@modularhippo You R a gentleman and a scholar. And your "bike" is fine
@@ovalwingnut Ha Ha - Thank You!
Whats the price pr el engine ??
And kW?
Hi:) - The motors are 10Kwh each. Believe I paid around $600 per motor (and then the government will take a bit of import tax on top of that, how much is dependant of where you live). If you want exact figures then feel free to contact the Golden Motor sales contact (Hunter) I dealt with (great guy). You will find his details in the description. Any questions let me know:)